Avengers Franchise to end in the wake of Siege

Cartesian Doubt

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Thor has always had tension with Stark and Cap; he's never liked taking orders from mortals.

Add to the fact that Stark BETRAYED him. He stole his essense to clone him so that the clone could fight their mutual friends. That clone then brutally killed one of them.

This isn't something I, as a reader, can accept Thor ever forgiving.

If you're gonna ride my ass on this forum like a parasite, then at least be correct.

-AC

Ride you ass like a parasite like a parasite. Unusual metaphor ???

Any way, weird extreme metaphors aside,

Im pretty sure previous to Civil War Thor and Tony wre close friends. Hence including him in the intial stages of the last Norse Ragnarok.

Also the current developments in Invincible Iron man, provide Sound COMIC BOOK reasoning (notice i don't imply real life reasoning) that Tony will redeem himself, and Thor will forgive him.

The claim that Thor will forgive him is further supported by the fact that he's forgiven Tony in comparably strenuous circumstances.
It wasn't that long ago, Iron man was fighting Thor to the death to prevent an international incident in Latveria.
In fact in those circumstances Tony didn't have to redeem himself, before Thor was fighting alongside with him in Asgard.
In the end its not going to matter whether or not YOU would ever forgive Tony, its whether Thor can forgive Tony. And I think a lot of readers, in full knowledge that this is a comic, will buy into the idea that Tony is currently redeeming himself.

So your claim that I'm not aware of the facts, is quite ridiculous. If anything i'm being a lot more open minded to comic book psychology than you are.

In regards to your arse-parasite metaphor ... Its a little aggressive and a bit weak. For parasites don't attack their hosts with the intention of killing them, they try to obtain an equilibrium of symbiosis, so they can gain natural resources for as long as possible. I'm not gaining anything from you, and I have no intention of having some wired Kmc symbiosis with your massive Ego.
I would prefer if you would stop being so malicious to everyone and post civilly without being laughably patronizing every time you express your point.

Alpha Centauri

Originally posted by Cartesian Doubt
Im pretty sure previous to Civil War Thor and Tony wre close friends. Hence including him in the intial stages of the last Norse Ragnarok.

Then Civil War happened, and now they're not. It's not hard.

Originally posted by Cartesian Doubt
Also the current developments in Invincible Iron man, provide Sound COMIC BOOK reasoning (notice i don't imply real life reasoning) that Tony will redeem himself, and Thor will forgive him.

How is it sound?

Originally posted by Cartesian Doubt
The claim that Thor will forgive him is further supported by the fact that he's forgiven Tony in comparably strenuous circumstances.
It wasn't that long ago, Iron man was fighting Thor to the death to prevent an international incident in Latveria.
In fact in those circumstances Tony didn't have to redeem himself, before Thor was fighting alongside with him in Asgard.
In the end its not going to matter whether or not YOU would ever forgive Tony, its whether Thor can forgive Tony. And I think a lot of readers, in full knowledge that this is a comic, will buy into the idea that Tony is currently redeeming himself.

It's not from my perspective. It's me saying that I do not think it's wise to say that Thor will forgive Stark for what he's done. I don't believe there's anything that Stark could do that would make Thor forgive him. I'm not writing, so whatever, but I feel that it'd be best if they kept it that way.

Regardless, I'm not against having one main roster of The Avengers, I just don't think the Big 3 should be teamed together. This whole idea of nurturing young mutants and superheroes would essentially be rendered void if they all come back and say: "Yeah, we'll take over again.". Thor and Steve have both got bigger shit going on now, Stark hasn't. Stark's the only one that I can see wanting to cling to that.

Thor and Steve seem like they'd do the noble thing of wanting to let a newer, more modernly in-touch roster handle things.

Originally posted by Cartesian Doubt
So your claim that I'm not aware of the facts, is quite ridiculous. If anything i'm being a lot more open minded to comic book psychology than you are.

You're being a lot more open minded to logic being swept under the rug, sure.

Originally posted by Cartesian Doubt
In regards to your arse-parasite metaphor ... Its a little aggressive and a bit weak. For parasites don't attack their hosts with the intention of killing them, they try to obtain an equilibrium of symbiosis, so they can gain natural resources for as long as possible. I'm not gaining anything from you, and I have no intention of having some wired Kmc symbiosis with your massive Ego.
I would prefer if you would stop being so malicious to everyone and post civilly without being laughably patronizing every time you express your point.

Who said anything about killing anything?

You've been clinging to my existence for half a decade. Five years you've monitored me on this site. Yet I have an ego? I'm obviously special somehow for you to dedicate 1,825 days to me.

That's genuinely disturbing. It's also not part of this topic.

-AC

BruceSkywalker

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
If anything, they'll come back under a single Avengers book.

i agree.. i think IM, Thor and Steve/Cap will form a brand new Avengers team afterward

Cartesian Doubt

You may think u are some kind of spin doctor Aplha Centurai, but Alistair Campbell u are not !!!!

Half of your response amounts desperate spin; you have placed on my previous post.
I can't understand why you would have to resort to such desperate and dirty tactics to save face ... but what ever?

How is it sound?

You can't jump on a claim before I've had a chance to justify it ... which I then proceeded to do ....

It's not from my perspective. It's me saying that I do not think it's wise to say that Thor will forgive Stark for what he's done. I don't believe there's anything that Stark could do that would make Thor forgive him. I'm not writing, so whatever, but I feel that it'd be best if they kept it that way.

Regardless, I'm not against having one main roster of The Avengers, I just don't think the Big 3 should be teamed together. This whole idea of nurturing young mutants and superheroes would essentially be rendered void if they all come back and say: "Yeah, we'll take over again.". Thor and Steve have both got bigger shit going on now, Stark hasn't. Stark's the only one that I can see wanting to cling to that.

Thor and Steve seem like they'd do the noble thing of wanting to let a newer, more modernly in-touch roster handle things.

This is basically Idiosyncratic rambling, sometimes justified with wired misconceptions such as :

This whole idea of nurturing young mutants and superheroes would essentially be rendered void if they all come back and say: "Yeah, we'll take over again."

I think your getting the Avengers mixed up with the JSA. Parenting youngster to inherit the mantle, has not been an Avengers agenda, since Kurt Brusiek was writing, what was nearly a decade ago !!!!

Who said anything about killing anything?

You've been clinging to my existence for half a decade. Five years you've monitored me on this site. Yet I have an ego? I'm obviously special somehow for you to dedicate 1,825 days to me.

That's genuinely disturbing. It's also not part of this topic.

-AC

This is the Spin Doctoring I refer to.

It seems that you are implying, I have been some kind cyberspace stalker for the last five years.

I believe this is in regards to my post that made yesterday in reference to the fact that you were egotistical, controversy junkie five years ago ... and you still are one now?

I'm sure you will agree making an observation with historical reference, is not the same as stalking?
If you believe it is then, a lot of people are going to have to be defined as stalkers.

I suppose we should start policing every observation made with historical reference, as militantly as we should police "spoiling" ?

Not only this ... you are implying that I was the one who brought the subject off topic, when in fact i was responding to your previous and unnecessary personal attack, comparing me with an inaccurate metaphor to a ... Arse Parasite ???

Yet I have an ego?

.... but to think u don't have an ego is just delusional ... All the patronizing malicious posting asside, why the hell do u feel the need to end every post with

-AC

I mean what the hell is that suppose to imply ...

"So Decrees Alpha Centurai"

or

"This is the word of the ... Alpha Canturai"

And don't pretend you do it for practical or courteous reasons, like finishing a letter. Everyone knows who you are, and the standard rudeness in the posts makes any courtesy pointless.

willRules

Originally posted by Cartesian Doubt
Ride you ass like a parasite like a parasite. Unusual metaphor ???

Any way, weird extreme metaphors aside,

Im pretty sure previous to Civil War Thor and Tony wre close friends. Hence including him in the intial stages of the last Norse Ragnarok.

Also the current developments in Invincible Iron man, provide Sound COMIC BOOK reasoning (notice i don't imply real life reasoning) that Tony will redeem himself, and Thor will forgive him.

The claim that Thor will forgive him is further supported by the fact that he's forgiven Tony in comparably strenuous circumstances.
It wasn't that long ago, Iron man was fighting Thor to the death to prevent an international incident in Latveria.
In fact in those circumstances Tony didn't have to redeem himself, before Thor was fighting alongside with him in Asgard.
In the end its not going to matter whether or not YOU would ever forgive Tony, its whether Thor can forgive Tony. And I think a lot of readers, in full knowledge that this is a comic, will buy into the idea that Tony is currently redeeming himself.

In addition to that, the Thor and Cap relationship has never been that severely strained. Thor has been quoted, numerous times, outside the comics and in the MU itself as having said Cap is one of the few people he'd follow through the gates of hell.

Alpha Centauri

We're not discussing Thor and Steve or Steve and Stark.

We're discussing Thor and Stark. I can see Steve and Stark repairing some kind of friendship or association, and with Steve and Thor there's no need since they're already friends. Thor and Stark? There's actually a lot more shit there than there is between any other variation.

Thor and Steve have never fought anywhere near as much. Steve and Stark have fought intensely, and Thor more or less threatened Iron Man after kicking the shit out of him not long ago.

It'd be a bit non-sensical to just have them let bygones be bygones. Redemption would be the way to go, but even then, it'd take an almighty act of redemption, in my eyes, for Stark to redeem himself in the eyes of Thor.

Originally posted by Cartesian Doubt
You may think u are some kind of spin doctor Aplha Centurai, but Alistair Campbell u are not !!!!

Half of your response amounts desperate spin; you have placed on my previous post.
I can't understand why you would have to resort to such desperate and dirty tactics to save face ... but what ever?

You can't jump on a claim before I've had a chance to justify it ... which I then proceeded to do ....

This is basically Idiosyncratic rambling, sometimes justified with wired misconceptions such as :

When you're ready to answer my questions, return to this part and answer them. Either way, stop the rambling.

Originally posted by Cartesian Doubt
I think your getting the Avengers mixed up with the JSA. Parenting youngster to inherit the mantle, has not been an Avengers agenda, since Kurt Brusiek was writing, what was nearly a decade ago !!!!

No, I'm referring to The Initiative. One of its main purposes is to teach kids how to use their powers effectively, the whole idea of inheriting the mantle is just something I think would be pretty cool if they did it like a draft system. I'm not saying that's definitely how it is, just that there happens to be elements of that.

After Stamford, the leading superheroes have a debt to be paid. They owe it to the people to make sure they are an example to be followed. Thus, to just ignore all the youngsters would defeat the purpose of Civil War. There needs to be a concentrated effort to make sure such immature and costly mistakes never happen again. It's because of Civil War that Secret Invasion happened (Had Stark not been in power, they might not have succeeded in infiltrating), and as a result...Dark Reign happened.

Had Speedball and his group of try-hard teens not stormed the safehouse of Nitro and co, Dark Reign may not have even occured. To get through all this and essentially ignore that would be dumb.

Originally posted by Cartesian Doubt
This is the Spin Doctoring I refer to.

It seems that you are implying, I have been some kind cyberspace stalker for the last five years.

I believe this is in regards to my post that made yesterday in reference to the fact that you were egotistical, controversy junkie five years ago ... and you still are one now?

I'm sure you will agree making an observation with historical reference, is not the same as stalking?
If you believe it is then, a lot of people are going to have to be defined as stalkers.

I suppose we should start policing every observation made with historical reference, as militantly as we should police "spoiling" ?

Not only this ... you are implying that I was the one who brought the subject off topic, when in fact i was responding to your previous and unnecessary personal attack, comparing me with an inaccurate metaphor to a ... Arse Parasite ???

.... but to think u don't have an ego is just delusional ... All the patronizing malicious posting asside, why the hell do u feel the need to end every post with

-AC

I mean what the hell is that suppose to imply ...

"So Decrees Alpha Centurai"

or

"This is the word of the ... Alpha Canturai"

And don't pretend you do it for practical or courteous reasons, like finishing a letter. Everyone knows who you are, and the standard rudeness in the posts makes any courtesy pointless.

This intense interest in me was flattering enough, now it's just honestly creepy. Heaven knows, though, I do love to talk about myself. So, let's test the theory, because the rudeness is you continually making things about me personally. You did that first, not me.

Anything you want to have answered regarding me personally, you can ask me in a PM and I will answer. Let's see how eager you are to clog the thread with that kind of bull when you lack an audience. Anything that strays from topic henceforth will be ignored. If you want them answered, PM me.

-Your best friend, AC

JakeTheBank

I think Thor already put his differences with Stark aside. He did recently try to revive Tony from his coma like state along with Steve. I'm sure Thor won't be BFF's with him anytime soon, but I think Thor is going to have more prevalent grudges to hold aside from his beef with Iron Man.

Alpha Centauri

I think that's more out of his obligation as a doctor and down to his value of life.

It'd be hypocritical of him not to help. If a klan member gets stabbed, black doctors still have to operate etc.

-AC

willRules

I'm sure Siege will repair their relationship. It's billed as reuniting the trinity. Thor and Tony have had an on and off again relationship, but they've always been friends. It was only in recent years, most notably Civil War, did Thor and Stark's relationship disintergrate. (I know many didn't like Civil War but it really was an event that actually changed a lot of stuff)

If you look back at some classic Avengers, Tony and Thor had the occasional scuffle in order to see heroes clash (One of the best being the fight over Latveria, which Cap got involved in) but Tony was always in admiration of Thor and Thor respected Tony (see the dissassembled aftermath issue). The formation of the Avengers was due to Iron-man aiding Thor against his half-brother. Even in Millar's reimagining of the Avengers, whilst retaining their core values a.k.a the Ultimates, Tony and Thor had a strong relationship.

Alpha Centauri

People keep overlooking how serious Stark's actions during Civil War were.

-AC

roughrider

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
People keep overlooking how serious Stark's actions during Civil War were.

-AC

I haven't forgetten, and was glad Thor brushed Tony off in his various attempts to reconcile. But I think the circumstances going on are going to heal some old wounds. Steve didn't want Tony to be burdened forever for what happened during Civil War, and he has a great relationship with Thor. I think peace will come.

I'd still like it if Thor still gave a smackdown to Reed Richards for Clor, though. evil face

Alpha Centauri

I'm not saying Thor has to hate the man forever.

Old wounds may heal, they may very well heal, but does "heal" mean that Thor is willing to be one of The Avengers with him? I sincerely doubt that. I hope not.

-AC

Badabing

Just a general post regarding the discussion the past few pages.

At the very least, Tony will need to earn Thor's trust and friendship again.

There's a difference between saving a man's life you've been teammates/friends with for years compared to trusting and associating with him.

Though this latest gesture by Thor may be a preview of mending fences.

willRules

I must admit, Marvel hypes events very well. Just as I'm growing sick of hearing that "nothing will ever be the same again" Marvel manages to lure me in with the notion that the "good ol times" of the Avenger's trinity might be back again.......

Although personally, I want THE Cap of the MU to be Bucky for the foreseeable future. I want more of his relationship with the Avengers, rather than Steve, who, as awesome as he is, should move onto to something different (hopefully Director of SHIELD, post Siege) yes

Kris Blaze

Yay everybody, let's turn the clock back another ****ing 20 years! This will be awesome, now we've COMPLETELY undone any character development Thor had the last decade, so we might as well put him back in the Avengers!

willRules

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Yay everybody, let's turn the clock back another ****ing 20 years! This will be awesome, now we've COMPLETELY undone any character development Thor had the last decade, so we might as well put him back in the Avengers!

But if they don't, will you be complaining that the character isn't progressing enough, especially in the wider MU?

WickedDynamite

There goes my hopes for another future West Coast Avengers title...thanks Marvel you're the fat, toothless, porker whore in a burlesque that no one wants to see dancing.

thumb down

ExodusCloak

Kris Blaze

Originally posted by willRules
But if they don't, will you be complaining that the character isn't progressing enough, especially in the wider MU?
If they don't what?

It's already erased no expression

Alpha Centauri

What you've got to remember, Will, is that Kris is one of those crystal ball fans.

He imagines where he wants a story to go with a character HE likes, and then blames the writer for not doing what he wants.

People on this board, for the most part, spend so much time talking about how they want their fav characters to be, that they lose touch with the fact that they're...just people on a messageboard. The way they think is not fact to how their favourite characters should act.

Thor is one character and you could probably find a million fans with a million different takes on Thor. There can only be one writer at a time, and if that man's take doesn't please you, it doesn't mean Marvel are shit. It means that man's opinion of Thor doesn't coincide with your own.

Kris could be signed up to do a run on Thor and everyone could think he was the worst thing to happen to it, despite having the freedom to do what he's always wanted. Some would undoubtedly think he is awesome.

Fans have to consider that only one or two people can write or co-write a character at the same time, and that character has millions of fans with differing opinions. They can't please everyone.

I swear most people here forget that.

"Oh, let's turn the clock back and shit on all the things that's happened to Thor.".

What would you suggest in a company that's as old as Marvel? Look at Surfer. He has been written CONSISTENTLY for as long as he has been around, more or less. He's one of the most consistently portrayed characters in comics.

It's also why he's as much fun as watching paint dry and why they won't give him an on-going. It's at a point where I don't care who the next writer is as long as they change it up.

Is that what you want? A Thor so consistently written that he becomes stale and therefore gets dropped?

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
While true I think Reed Richards should be number one of everyones hitlist.

Why? Reed thinks too much. For someone so smart, he can't see but two feet in front of him sometimes. Hence why he had such a troubled relationship with Sue during that period.

Stark knew what he was doing. He had what was necessary to clone Thor since their first meeting.

It was very calculated.

-AC

ExodusCloak

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Why? Reed thinks too much. For someone so smart, he can't see but two feet in front of him sometimes. Hence why he had such a troubled relationship with Sue during that period.

Stark knew what he was doing. He had what was necessary to clone Thor since their first meeting.

It was very calculated.

-AC

I don't think that excuses him though. It feels that all he got was a slap on the wrist. While the rest of the Illuminati "suffered" to some extent. Then we get Dark Reign: Fantastic Four explaining that it would have worked had the other members not been present it's too much of an easy way out IMO.

Kris Blaze

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
"Oh, let's turn the clock back and shit on all the things that's happened to Thor.".

What would you suggest in a company that's as old as Marvel? Look at Surfer. He has been written CONSISTENTLY for as long as he has been around, more or less. He's one of the most consistently portrayed characters in comics.

It's also why he's as much fun as watching paint dry and why they won't give him an on-going. It's at a point where I don't care who the next writer is as long as they change it up.

Is that what you want? A Thor so consistently written that he becomes stale and therefore gets dropped.
The butt are you talking about here?

What does consistency have to do with lack of variety? You're talking about lack of change as its a negative thing while wavering a banner supporting it. Virtually NOTHING has changed about the Surfer in ages and the sales suffered/lost his book. Do you think this is what I want for Thor? Clearly You must be confused about something here.

Jurgens took Thor to new places and Oeming continued to build on that. Both wrote a great Thor, a character so great the likes of which have not been seen since Walt "God" Simonson wrote him. The sales answered in accordance. JMS wrote a good Thor and did a good job where Oeming should have continued instead. JMS did some great things, and not some great things. He started turning the clock backwards on Thor's power level, but at least he assured us that Odin would not return. Now, during the Kierron interlude things seems to be going even further back. Thor is pal'ing with Asgard, old enemies are returning and building up to Bendis' big turn of the clock. Reuniting Thor with Avengers and lobotomizing him.

So what are you talking about really? Bitching about how I'm dissatisfied with them flipping off 7-10 years of character development whilst making a statement about how important change and variety is? There is not a million different ways to handle a character's development, you either acknowledge it or you don't. Everything is pointing to Bendis not doing so.

Bentley

The Avengers are better off without Thor anyways.

Alpha Centauri

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
The butt are you talking about here?

What does consistency have to do with lack of variety? You're talking about lack of change as its a negative thing while wavering a banner supporting it. Virtually NOTHING has changed about the Surfer in ages and the sales suffered/lost his book. Do you think this is what I want for Thor? Clearly You must be confused about something here.

Jurgens took Thor to new places and Oeming continued to build on that. Both wrote a great Thor, a character so great the likes of which have not been seen since Walt "God" Simonson wrote him. The sales answered in accordance. JMS wrote a good Thor and did a good job where Oeming should have continued instead. JMS did some great things, and not some great things. He started turning the clock backwards on Thor's power level, but at least he assured us that Odin would not return. Now, during the Kierron interlude things seems to be going even further back. Thor is pal'ing with Asgard, old enemies are returning and building up to Bendis' big turn of the clock. Reuniting Thor with Avengers and lobotomizing him.

So what are you talking about really? Bitching about how I'm dissatisfied with them flipping off 7-10 years of character development whilst making a statement about how important change and variety is? There is not a million different ways to handle a character's development, you either acknowledge it or you don't. Everything is pointing to Bendis not doing so.

All signs point to Thor returning to The Avengers and even I have openly said I don't think that's a good move, but until they do it, I'm not going to blame them for doing it...because it hasn't been done. IF, big IF, they don't then you're just going to look rather foolish.

Also, why does everyone around here have such a hard-on for power levels? I care about story, not who my favourite characters can beat up in a fight. I could understand if one minute Thor is immensely powerful to the point that he's untouchable (Cos that's SO much fun to read...), then he gets beat by Hitman Monkey or Squirrel Girl. That doesn't seem to be happening, though.

Unless it's not how they did it, but the fact that they did it that bothers you.

I'm not supporting and bitching about anything.

I'm all for consistency, but within realism. Surfer has been written consistently forever, and he's suffered for it. That is an example of consistency being bad.

You're right, there are so many ways to develop a character. My issue is that people seem to think that their way is the best and anything else is shit.

Do you have any idea how many people bitched about Frank Miller changing Daredevil's aesthetic back in the day? Granted, there wasn't as much back story, but it was more than a hundred issues of consistently portrayed character and then Miller comes in with ninjas and organised crime.

It turned out to be the best thing to ever happen. You'll never know if one of these people who is changing Thor happens to have the right idea unless you stop viewing change with such vicious mentality.

-AC

ExodusCloak

Thor will still have his own book after Siege, Fraction is writing him remember.

Alpha Centauri

He writes a good Thor.

He writes a good anyone besides X-Men.

-AC

ExodusCloak

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

He writes a good anyone besides X-Men.

-AC

Lulz I wouldn't blame him for that. I've come to believe that Uncanny X-Men is cursed.

Kris Blaze

Disregard post content, acquired faulty interpretation.

Kazenji

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

He writes a good anyone besides X-Men.

-AC

And also besides Punisher.....just was'nt taking the 616 punisher seriously when he did it.

roughrider

Can't keep the big three off Avengers forever. I remeber how for several years, DC's big three weren't on the JL either (and Batman was a part timer in the Giffen-DeMatteis 'Bwahaha' days), but things get reversed eventually.

Darth Vicious

Originally posted by roughrider
Can't keep the big three off Avengers forever. I remeber how for several years, DC's big three weren't on the JL either (and Batman was a part timer in the Giffen-DeMatteis 'Bwahaha' days), but things get reversed eventually.

Exactly. Just like its a matter of time Batman/Supes and WW will be back in JLA. Its only a matter of time.

Kazenji

So Avengers are'nt ending got something to do with this Heroic Age
http://marvel.com/news/comicstories.10914.marvel~colon~_the_heroic_age

Warlord

it feels like Marvel pressed the reset button...it might end up being a good idea...I always liked the original Avengers idea as a major single group.

by the way the new Iron Man suit looks sweet

The Nuul

Originally posted by Kazenji
So Avengers are'nt ending got something to do with this Heroic Age
http://marvel.com/news/comicstories.10914.marvel~colon~_the_heroic_age

I am skipping this....well not buying this I mean... shifty

. Its just not worth it. I just want the original team back, Thor IM and Cap are the best members and always will be.

Also I want a Thor/Cap, IM/Cap, Thor/IM team up comic just like the Superman/Batman but this one canon though.

Alpha Centauri

You know what's awesome? People who don't understand the dynamic within The Avengers.

Nowhere NEAR as awesome as people who steal and still whine, but it's up there.

-AC

JakeTheBank

If Bucky actually remains as Captain America for a while, I'll be impressed by Marvel.

Bentley

If Thor stays mad with Iron-man I'll be impressed myself.

AlmightyKfish

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=24658

Romita Junior for art =

Bentley

I'm so happy that Romita Jr. is in the book, his drawings are simply and yet very marked with a personal style.

Kris Blaze

His drawings are simply box, box, box, box.

The Nuul

Romita Jr art is like saying puke is beautiful.

BruceSkywalker

Originally posted by Kazenji
So Avengers are'nt ending got something to do with this Heroic Age
http://marvel.com/news/comicstories.10914.marvel~colon~_the_heroic_age

can't wait to buy this

outavodka

Originally posted by The Nuul
Romita Jr art is like saying puke is beautiful. i agree, and i hope Tony dies and Steve or Jim Rhodes takes over

willRules

Originally posted by The Nuul
Romita Jr art is like saying puke is beautiful.

no expression

Puke is beautiful.

Original Smurph

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You know what's awesome? People who don't understand the dynamic within The Avengers.

Nowhere NEAR as awesome as people who steal and still whine, but it's up there.

-AC Why is it that every second post that you make (which may be an off estimate, I'm only in this forum so often) seems to be about criticizing how fans go about being fans?

You're not improving anything. It just comes off as preaching and holier-than-thou.

BruceSkywalker

so far thor, capt america, iron man and spiderwoman..

i am sure other names will be dropping

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/Avengers-2010-Tease-100201.html

Kazenji

I would like one of the Ghost Rider's on a team.

BruceSkywalker

Originally posted by Kazenji
I would like one of the Ghost Rider's on a team.

that would be nice if it happens

outavodka

Originally posted by Kazenji
I would like one of the Ghost Rider's on a team. which one or do you not care

Kazenji

Originally posted by BruceSkywalker
so far thor, capt america, iron man and spiderwoman..

And now Hawkeye.

Warlord

ok guys...how about u give your ideal line up?

Bentley

I don't want that chump Iron-man in the team. Pym avengers are the real avengers!

BruceSkywalker

Originally posted by Kazenji

And now Hawkeye.

I've liked Hawkeye in some arcs..

Originally posted by Bentley
I don't want that chump Iron-man in the team. Pym avengers are the real avengers!

Tony will always be an Avenger

Bentley

Iron-man is Avenger's history and that's that

Original Smurph

With Hank Pym's new "Scientist Supreme" shtick, one would hope that he either is on this team or continues to lead some team of his own.

Darth Vicious

Originally posted by Warlord
ok guys...how about u give your ideal line up?

Cap (Steve), Iron Man, Thor, Ms.Marvel, Hank Pym, Hawkeye, Mookingbird, Spidey or Spider Woman and Dr. Strange or Brother Voodoo.

I really want Ms. Marvel to Marvel's version of Wonder Woman.

willRules

Well seeing as it's supposed to be a new heroic age, I'd have some classics and some new members from other teams, being on both teams, like Wolverine.

Cap (Bucky), Iron-man, Thor, Hawkeye, Spider-man, Wolverine, Ms Marvel, Mockingbird, Beast, Luke Cage, a random X-woman (Rogue or Psylocke) and a member of the FF (Sue or Johnny)

The fact that it would have Marvel's trinity and characters like Hawkeye give it the classic Avengers feel. The addition of members who are also on the FF or the X-men would not only remind the reader of the shared universe and allow for cool crossovers/teamups but would also allow for greater story potential with a larger variety of villains.

outavodka

Cap(Steve),Thor,Ironman,Spiderman,Ms.Marvel,Dr. Strange,Spiderwoman,Vision,Storm,Pym,Herc,Cho,Quic
ksilver,Wiccan

Darth Vicious

Originally posted by outavodka
Cap(Steve),Thor,Ironman,Spiderman,Ms.Marvel,Dr. Strange,Spiderwoman,Vision,Storm,Pym,Herc,Cho,Quic
ksilver,Wiccan

Oh yes, forgot about Vision. Its time to bring him back to the fold.

Warlord

Vision and Wanda are two of my must have in a Avengers lineup that respects itself smile

Cartesian Doubt

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I'm not saying Thor has to hate the man forever.

Old wounds may heal, they may very well heal, but does "heal" mean that Thor is willing to be one of The Avengers with him? I sincerely doubt that.
-AC

Well U were WRONG there ... It looks like everyone is fallible. It would do u some good to take some humility out this fact !!!!

#Awaits inevitable Spin-doctoring #

AlmightyKfish

http://uk.comics.ign.com/articles/106/1067375p1.html

That creative team is awesomecakes big grin

Cartesian Doubt

Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
http://uk.comics.ign.com/articles/106/1067375p1.html

That creative team is awesomecakes big grin

Indeed ... Its more likely to be a team of non registered heroes though. Unless the pull a 180 in seige the gae of the T.Bolt avengers is probably comming to an end. Good times fro Marvel though.

Alpha Centauri

It's spelled SIEGE, people.

Really.

Originally posted by Cartesian Doubt
Well U were WRONG there ... It looks like everyone is fallible. It would do u some good to take some humility out this fact !!!!

#Awaits inevitable Spin-doctoring #

How? Marvel have made him one of The Avengers, that much is blatantly clear from all the stupidly spoilerific solicits, but that doesn't make him forgiving Stark any less ridiculous to me. We don't even know if he will, or if he does, why he does. Besides my point was hypothetical; in a logical world, Thor doesn't forgive Stark and doesn't become an Avenger. That much is obvious. However, he has a movie coming out, The Avengers have a movie coming out and they obviously wanna make money, so Thor is an Avenger. Everyone knew deep down that if they reformed them, Thor would be there. Steve isn't, but Captain America is (Though I'd say Steve will become Cap again as his movie comes out, or rejoin The Avengers AS Cap). There's only one Thor.

It's a bad move on Marvel's part. The book will still be good to read, I should imagine, but plotwise it does Thor no favours unless they give him a good reason for forgiving Stark.

So I don't see how or why you got so excited. "Inevitable spin-doctoring" clearly means that you knew I could and would counter you, but YOU wanted to put a negative spin on it first. You don't get much more spin-doctory than that, sir. Not that anybody really cares about me on here as much as you.

If you can't debate me without somehow dipping into your endless reservoir of interest in me PERSONALLY, then just save us both the time. I have enough people unsettlingly interested in me on this forum without you adding to the numbers.

-AC

tjcoady

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
It's spelled SIEGE, people.

Really.

How? Marvel have made him one of The Avengers, that much is blatantly clear from all the stupidly spoilerific solicits, but that doesn't make him forgiving Stark any less ridiculous to me. We don't even know if he will, or if he does, why he does. Besides my point was hypothetical; in a logical world, Thor doesn't forgive Stark and doesn't become an Avenger. That much is obvious. However, he has a movie coming out, The Avengers have a movie coming out and they obviously wanna make money, so Thor is an Avenger. Everyone knew deep down that if they reformed them, Thor would be there. Steve isn't, but Captain America is (Though I'd say Steve will become Cap again as his movie comes out, or rejoin The Avengers AS Cap). There's only one Thor.

It's a bad move on Marvel's part. The book will still be good to read, I should imagine, but plotwise it does Thor no favours unless they give him a good reason for forgiving Stark.

So I don't see how or why you got so excited. "Inevitable spin-doctoring" clearly means that you knew I could and would counter you, but YOU wanted to put a negative spin on it first. You don't get much more spin-doctory than that, sir. Not that anybody really cares about me on here as much as you.

If you can't debate me without somehow dipping into your endless reservoir of interest in me PERSONALLY, then just save us both the time. I have enough people unsettlingly interested in me on this forum without you adding to the numbers.

-AC

Regardless of whether or not you're right, it's a moot point. Thor has already forgiven Iron Man. He and Captain America both say, in Invincible Iron Man that the past doesn't matter in the light of Tony's need. They confirm that they acknowledge the problems, but are cool about it .

Alpha Centauri

Originally posted by tjcoady
Regardless of whether or not you're right, it's a moot point. Thor has already forgiven Iron Man. He and Captain America both say, in Invincible Iron Man that the past doesn't matter in the light of Tony's need. They confirm that they acknowledge the problems, but are cool about it .

That's more down to a value of life than forgiveness of the person.

-AC

Cartesian Doubt

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
It's spelled SIEGE, people.

Really.

How? Marvel have made him one of The Avengers, that much is blatantly clear from all the stupidly spoilerific solicits, but that doesn't make him forgiving Stark any less ridiculous to me. We don't even know if he will, or if he does, why he does. Besides my point was hypothetical; in a logical world, Thor doesn't forgive Stark and doesn't become an Avenger. That much is obvious. However, he has a movie coming out, The Avengers have a movie coming out and they obviously wanna make money, so Thor is an Avenger. Everyone knew deep down that if they reformed them, Thor would be there. Steve isn't, but Captain America is (Though I'd say Steve will become Cap again as his movie comes out, or rejoin The Avengers AS Cap). There's only one Thor.

GO back and READ my original response to you .. I said you were probably wrong for these very reasons ... We are referring to a fictional realm not a "Logical" one ... Logical is not the appropriate term in the circumstance, I think you mean our Standard social world.

You were the one who was originally Idiosyncratically prescribing real world psychology to the inevitable make up - Don't accuse me of doing it !!!!!!

" They won't be on the same team, because in the real world Thor would BLAh, BLAH, BLAH ..." - A.C.

This sentence contains a blatant LOGICAL contradiction, let a lone the anthropomorphic reasoning behind it.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
So I don't see how or why you got so excited. "Inevitable spin-doctoring" clearly means that you knew I could and would counter you, but YOU wanted to put a negative spin on it first. You don't get much more spin-doctory than that, sir. Not that anybody really cares about me on here as much as you.

You've adjusted you're original claim, to ecompass the reasoning I used against you ... and then claimed; this manipulated perspective was yours all along ? ... I consider this spin doctoring

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
If you can't debate me without somehow dipping into your endless reservoir of interest in me PERSONALLY, then just save us both the time. I have enough people unsettlingly interested in me on this forum without you adding to the numbers.

-AC

This is juts a load of gash ... I think I've responded to you no more than four times in the last month-the last involved an incident when you indirectly got someone banned after crying about spoilers again. ... Its hardly what I would call an obsession.

Alpha Centauri

Originally posted by Cartesian Doubt
GO back and READ my original response to you .. I said you were probably wrong for these very reasons ... We are referring to a fictional realm not a "Logical" one ... Logical is not the appropriate term in the circumstance, I think you mean our Standard social world.

You were the one who was originally Idiosyncratically prescribing real world psychology to the inevitable make up - Don't accuse me of doing it !!!!!!

" They won't be on the same team, because in the real world Thor would BLAh, BLAH, BLAH ..." - A.C.

This sentence contains a blatant LOGICAL contradiction, let a lone the anthropomorphic reasoning behind it.

Me correcting your original misinterpretation of my post is not spin-doctoring.

I think you just like saying that phrase.

Originally posted by Cartesian Doubt
You've adjusted you're original claim, to ecompass the reasoning I used against you ... and then claimed; this manipulated perspective was yours all along ? ... I consider this spin doctoring

This is juts a load of gash ... I think I've responded to you no more than four times in the last month-the last involved an incident when you indirectly got someone banned after crying about spoilers again. ... Its hardly what I would call an obsession.

No, admitting to have "watched" me for many years on this forum, going back to my early days here? That is what I'd call an obsession. You seem to feel you have this entire psychological profile on me for some reason, and it's mildly disturbing.

You, like many others, can't seem to stand me. Yet, you will not stop giving me attention.

-AC

Deadline

Originally posted by Original Smurph
Why is it that every second post that you make (which may be an off estimate, I'm only in this forum so often) seems to be about criticizing how fans go about being fans?

You're not improving anything. It just comes off as preaching and holier-than-thou.

The irony is in your own way you're worse than he is.

Alpha Centauri

Is there a reason you specifically quoted a post from eight days ago?

-AC

Bentley

Because the conversation was just crappy from then on. uhuh

Deadline

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Is there a reason you specifically quoted a post from eight days ago?

-AC

Didn't know it was eight days ago.

Original Smurph

Originally posted by Deadline
The irony is in your own way you're worse than he is. Nein. I'm hilarious, adorable and all sorts of fun.

Alpha Centauri

Moved here because it's more relevant.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
as for him not being a member I find difficult that one can say they disagree with him being one why thinking spiderman being one makes sense. Spiderman more of a loner then Wolverine is. Wolverine been on several teams and for decades. He very uses to being on teams. Spidermans been on very few teams and really the longest he ever been on a team is new avengers. So it makes more sense for Wolverine to be on a team then Spiderman. They also had him on the new avengers due to his willingness to go were other members won't and nothing really change hell if anything they need some one on the team like that even more. He also has made several points that he disagree's with scots icesolation policies. He has no desire to sitt back and own protect his species. He wants to be out there in the thick of it which is why he jion the new avenegers to begin with. His run in civil war alone and his conversation with scot prove as much.

thats my two cents on the matter. I feel it makes a lot of sense given his character and x-men of late and I believe it certainly makes more sense then mr spidy.

I really like the team from those previews there should be some great interactions.

Spider-Man doesn't go around priding himself on being a loner. It hasn't been the over-arching trait he's known to possess for a bulk of his life. He's been married openly and has had that as a massive part of his comic history. There was a wedding issue etc.

So that's why Spider-Man joining makes more sense in terms of who is a loner and who isn't. Wolverine chose solitude, Spider-Man had it thrust upon him.

As for Wolverine not wanting to sit back, that's fine. That doesn't counter my point, though. He wants to be out there doing shit, that's probably one of the reasons for X-Force, or his membership OF X-Force. That doesn't imply he's a team player, it implies he likes action.

Also, what's he gonna do? The Avengers are an example, they don't storm around killing people. What's Wolverine gonna do with his claws? Cap, Iron Man and Thor certainly aren't gonna let him run around stabbing people. He just doesn't fit into the team at all.

-AC

Original Smurph

When did Spider-Man have solitude thrust upon him?
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Also, what's he gonna do? The Avengers are an example, they don't storm around killing people. What's Wolverine gonna do with his claws? Cap, Iron Man and Thor certainly aren't gonna let him run around stabbing people. He just doesn't fit into the team at all.

-AC Huh? How is Wolverine any different in this respect than, say, Hawkeye with his arrows? Logan's killed, sure, but he also has many showings demonstrating his ability to avoid killing, as well as simply disabling and dismantling foes. Plus the vast majority of Avengers villains are going to take a lot more than a few claw strikes to be put down, if they're even affected.

I don't really see how simply possessing potentially deadly weapons should be a strike against Avengers membership.

Alpha Centauri

I was speaking more of the lonely element of his character. That's not really by choice.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
When did Spider-Man have solitude thrust upon him?
Huh? How is Wolverine any different in this respect than, say, Hawkeye with his arrows? Logan's killed, sure, but he also has many showings demonstrating his ability to avoid killing, as well as simply disabling and dismantling foes. Plus the vast majority of Avengers villains are going to take a lot more than a few claw strikes to be put down, if they're even affected.

I don't really see how simply possessing potentially deadly weapons should be a strike against Avengers membership.

When has Wolverine ever used trick claws? Hawkeye has arrows for all occasions, including non-lethals. Does Wolverine have non-lethal claws?

-AC

Original Smurph

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
When has Wolverine ever used trick claws? Hawkeye has arrows for all occasions, including non-lethals. Does Wolverine have non-lethal claws?

-AC Funny, pretty sure Hawkeye doesn't just use trick arrows against opponents....

For that matter though, Wolverine's claws are retractable. He can just punch people, and has some of the best combat skills around, so it's not like he's any less equipped to deal with situations requiring non-lethal force than, say, Captain America.

Alpha Centauri

Originally posted by Original Smurph
Funny, pretty sure Hawkeye doesn't just use trick arrows against opponents....

For that matter though, Wolverine's claws are retractable. He can just punch people, and has some of the best combat skills around, so it's not like he's any less equipped to deal with situations requiring non-lethal force than, say, Captain America.

Yes, because that's likely to happen isn't it? A comic in which Wolverine doesn't use his claws.

"Oops! Gotta retract these. Promo art only!". A likely scenario, I DON'T think.

My point was more to do with his character. He just doesn't have the attitude of someone who'd be on The Avengers. Secret Avengers, maybe.

Why do you think they recruited him when they were on the run and waging what amounts to a guerilla war? The Avengers are a prestige group that everyone is supposed to look up to.

-AC

roughrider

You know, I'm going to miss Norman Osborn. smile

Years ago, I couldn't believe it when Marvel brought him back. But as he's been developed under Warren Ellis & Brian Bendis, I really like the Lex Luthor-Hannibal Lecter type vibe he brings to the table. As someone who didn't like the pro-reg side during Civil War, I enjoyed seeing Norman reap the rewards of taking charge when the pro-regers f*cked up with the Skrull Invasion, showing that they believe in being run by the government only when they have an insider in the hero community installed. I hope Norman just get re-assigned and returns to plague Reed & Tony (and makes Peter shut up once in a while.)

Original Smurph

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Yes, because that's likely to happen isn't it? A comic in which Wolverine doesn't use his claws.

"Oops! Gotta retract these. Promo art only!". A likely scenario, I DON'T think.

My point was more to do with his character. He just doesn't have the attitude of someone who'd be on The Avengers. Secret Avengers, maybe.

Why do you think they recruited him when they were on the run and waging what amounts to a guerilla war? The Avengers are a prestige group that everyone is supposed to look up to.

-AC About as likely a comic as one where Hawkeye doesn't use potentially lethal arrows. Guess we should revoke his membership too.

For that matter, its also as likely as a comic where Wolverine kills with his claws without meaning to... if its a no-kill situation, then Logan won't kill the opponent with his claws...

The Avengers are first and foremost a unified defense for the helpless against the myriad of overpowered super-villains. If someone like Wolverine is deemed necessary for that goal to be obtained (as was previously the case), then so be it. This notion is especially relevant considering the post-SRA Marvel World where superheroes are representing more and more of a trained force structured specifically for civilian defense; it seems that welcoming someone with the clear training to avoid killing an opponent despite the capacity to do so is not such a strange decision as you make it out to be.

Alpha Centauri

Originally posted by Original Smurph
About as likely a comic as one where Hawkeye doesn't use potentially lethal arrows. Guess we should revoke his membership too.

For that matter, its also as likely as a comic where Wolverine kills with his claws without meaning to... if its a no-kill situation, then Logan won't kill the opponent with his claws...

The Avengers are first and foremost a unified defense for the helpless against the myriad of overpowered super-villains. If someone like Wolverine is deemed necessary for that goal to be obtained (as was previously the case), then so be it. This notion is especially relevant considering the post-SRA Marvel World where superheroes are representing more and more of a trained force structured specifically for civilian defense; it seems that welcoming someone with the clear training to avoid killing an opponent despite the capacity to do so is not such a strange decision as you make it out to be.

Hawkeye can use many kinds of arrows and it doesn't detract from his ability to shoot arrows. Wolverine's claws are his main feature. He either uses his lethal claws or he doesn't.

I honestly don't think he's going to take being ordered around or what not.

Granted, you're right. It's a different world now, someone like Wolverine would probably be of use in a time where the heroes accept that a little rough justice might be necessary.

-AC

quanchi112

Originally posted by roughrider
You know, I'm going to miss Norman Osborn. smile

Alpha Centauri

Originally posted by Battlehammer
How would he be the worst pick?

Regarding why Deadpool would be just about the worst pick to lead ANY group, much less the Secret Avengers; that is obvious to anyone remotely familiar with Deadpool.

The man is an amoral assassin who is mental beyond compare, with two voices in his head who enjoys killing people.

-AC

Cartesian Doubt

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

Regarding why Deadpool would be just about the worst pick to lead ANY group, much less the Secret Avengers; that is obvious to anyone remotely familiar with Deadpool.

The man is an amoral assassin who is mental beyond compare, with two voices in his head who enjoys killing people.

-AC

Agreed, and he has much leadership qualities as he has sculpted good looks.

IMO, I think somone like Bucky would make the best case for Secret Avengers leadership, but I don't think he's gonna be a secret Avenger. Him or Nick Fury, playing a field Marshall Henri Benedix role, in the background, with Electra/Black Widow as field leader ?

Im really looking forward to this storyline though, It reminds me of J.L.A elite which was one of the best D.C. books around before Infinite Crisis. It also has the potential to reach the heights of Ellis's black ops, Stormwatch book. So good !