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http://marvel.com/universe3zx/images/thumb/5/5b/L_trib.jpg/440px-L_trib.jpg

The Living Tribunal, the most powerful Abstract in Marvel and 2nd in command after TOAA.


VS


http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/1/19151/375871-197409-man-of-miracles_super.JPG

Man of Miracles, creator of Imageverse and the man known as Jesus Christ. Leader of the Twelve Disciples and master of God and Satan.

Man o Miracles = One Above All

so spite against LT

Yeah this is basically the same as Spectre vs Presence.

MoM wins.

We don't know that. Maybe he has a superior.

and the "gods" in Spawnverse are weak. Im sure anyone skyfather level can kill them all off.

LT wins due to feats.

None of us can ensure an accurate conclusion in a thread like this.

bump

TOAA = Man of Miracles > LT

spite against Man of Miracles

I just wanted to prove a point.

Mods can close this thread now if they want to.

Originally posted by Cogito
TOAA = Man of Miracles > LT

Man of Miracles, Presence < TOAA

TOAA > LT

LT > DC

i'll stick with it to the end.

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
I just wanted to prove a point.
Did you really have to resort to actually making a thread though? Do you think that gathering the general consensus in a thread would work as a substitute for evidence?

There are arguments for both sides, so close in fact that in the end it's up to interpretation.

Originally posted by Astner
There are arguments for both sides, so close in fact that in the end it's up to interpretation.

There's really no argument. There is zero ambiguity, as I understand it (not a Spawn reader), regarding MoM's status as the Supreme Being of Image.

Originally posted by Cogito
There's really no argument. There is zero ambiguity, as I understand it (not a Spawn reader), regarding MoM's status as the Supreme Being of Image.

it must be NECESSARY for him to be the supreme being of image, because he is not the supreme being of the omniverse.

LT's judgement will work just fine on MoM to keep him in his place.

remember, using "supreme" can always be contested and should not be relied upon unless it's TOAA, Marvels Supreme Being based around the omnipotent being.

if you want to wrongly equate MoM with TOAA -- the supreme being of the OMNIVERSE -- then this is a spite thread and MoM wins, otherwise LT wins at least 6/10. Hope that's fair, i'm out.

What makes TOAA the supreme being of the omniverse again?

marvel makes the most money?

i don't know Cogito, you tell me

I don't know what Jynocidus is taking but he believe LT is greater than the Presence and MOM because LT powers are absolute everywhere the the same is not true for beings who created multiverses.
This is my question how can LT who is just a care taker be more powerful than the Presence a being who is Infinite, Absolute, Extenal and supreme with the ability to create mutliverses.

Originally posted by Jynocidus
marvel makes the most money?

i don't know Cogito, you tell me

TOAA is the Supreme Being of Marvel because a writer decided it, and no other writers have since retconned that station.

MoM is the Supreme Being of Image because a writer decided it, and no other writers have since retconned that station.

look, even in worst case scenario if you want to blow this out of proportions -- lets say TOAA isn't supreme being in the omniverse.

LT is STILL an omniversal judge. If you think outside of the box, say the supreme being of Marvel manifests some phenomenal power from the real TOAA (whoever you believe in) just to bring Marvel and LT into the world.

MoM STILL can't escape Necessity.

MOM is also Necessity in Image, He possesses all LT powers and responsible and more on a greater scales. LT is the judge of marvel omniverse, image and DC.

"Supreme being" is a title that is frankly only really relevant in the verse said being comes from.

I don't read Spawn, so the MoM may have the feats/scale (In the sense that he both embodies and is stronger than beings with amazing feats, size of what he created counts too) to win this, but "LULHESGOD" is a shitty argument.

Originally posted by Jynocidus
look, even in worst case scenario if you want to blow this out of proportions -- lets say TOAA isn't supreme being in the omniverse.

LT is STILL an omniversal judge. If you think outside of the box, say the supreme being of Marvel manifests some phenomenal power from the real TOAA (whoever you believe in) just to bring Marvel and LT into the world.

MoM STILL can't escape Necessity.

Since you refuse to accept a limited definition of the word "omniverse" (i.e. you believe the definition of the term means there is one omniverse of which the real world, Marvel, DC, etc etc are a part, rather than there being a Marvel omniverse, DC omniverse, etc), you must realize that there is no word for how ridiculous your assertion is.

By your own definition, the LT holds power over you and me and everyone else in the world. Lesser beliefs have put people in mental hospitals.

When LT can create a multiverse out of nothing than we can talk about him beating the Presence and MOM

Originally posted by Cogito
Since you refuse to accept a limited definition of the word "omniverse" (i.e. you believe the definition of the term means there is one omniverse of which the real world, Marvel, DC, etc etc are a part, rather than there being a Marvel omniverse, DC omniverse, etc), you must realize that there is no word for how ridiculous your assertion is.

By your own definition, the LT holds power over you and me and everyone else in the world. Lesser beliefs have put people in mental hospitals.

LT DOES hold power over you and I.

You NEED to eat.

You NEED to...use the computer to communicate with others on a comic book versus thread, because you lack the convenience of telepathy or some other stuff we can't do.

if anything, you NEED to stay (whatever nationality you are) and Die lol, get it?

There IS a higher power on our plane where TOAA (not stan lee, or maybe? "God" can take many forms)..is. and guess what his law is? Necessity. "In every universe exists the triad"

don't make this more complicated than it has to be

Originally posted by Jynocidus
LT DOES hold power over you and I.

You NEED to eat.

You NEED to...use the computer to communicate with others on a comic book versus thread, because you lack the convenience of telepathy or some other stuff we can't do.

if anything, you NEED to stay (whatever nationality you are) and Die lol, get it?

There IS a higher power on our plane where TOAA (not stan lee, or maybe? "God" can take many forms)..is. and guess what his law is? Necessity. "In every universe exists the triad"

don't make this more complicated than it has to be

http://chzgifs.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/itsallreallyhappeningp1.gif

Originally posted by Jynocidus
LT DOES hold power over you and I.

You NEED to eat.

You NEED to...use the computer to communicate with others on a comic book versus thread, because you lack the convenience of telepathy or some other stuff we can't do.

if anything, you NEED to stay (whatever nationality you are) and Die lol, get it?

There IS a higher power on our plane where TOAA (not stan lee, or maybe? "God" can take many forms)..is. and guess what his law is? Necessity. "In every universe exists the triad"

don't make this more complicated than it has to be

You are very entertaining!

Originally posted by Jynocidus
LT DOES hold power over you and I.

You NEED to eat.

You NEED to...use the computer to communicate with others on a comic book versus thread, because you lack the convenience of telepathy or some other stuff we can't do.

if anything, you NEED to stay (whatever nationality you are) and Die lol, get it?

There IS a higher power on our plane where TOAA (not stan lee, or maybe? "God" can take many forms)..is. and guess what his law is? Necessity. "In every universe exists the triad"

don't make this more complicated than it has to be You're a unique sort of troll.

You get an A for originality!

Originally posted by Cogito
http://chzgifs.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/itsallreallyhappeningp1.gif

the real factor provided by marvel is astonishing

Originally posted by Jynocidus
LT DOES hold power over you and I.

You NEED to eat.

You NEED to...use the computer to communicate with others on a comic book versus thread, because you lack the convenience of telepathy or some other stuff we can't do.

if anything, you NEED to stay (whatever nationality you are) and Die lol, get it?

There IS a higher power on our plane where TOAA (not stan lee, or maybe? "God" can take many forms)..is. and guess what his law is? Necessity. "In every universe exists the triad"

don't make this more complicated than it has to be What?

Also, MoM's has done nothing outside the scope of say Eternity in all reality. And God and Satan in the Imageverse have done no better than a Skyfather.

Hell, even if he did create the entire universe from scratch, or create the big bang, it's not like that's outside the scope of some characters under LT.

I fail to see why we automatically attribute him with the powers of Marvel God or DC God.

LT wins. I don't even consider Image Universe equivalent to Marvel.

Isn't Image an infinite multiverse the same as Marvel?

some people just don't get that you're not infinite if there is another infinite being also.

there cannot be two omnipotents, there cannot be two omniverses, and in vs threads being supreme makes no sense

no matter how you look at it, LT serves TOAA and he judges all realities, yes even ours so don't be mad. respect a conceptual character

the NECESSITY that all these companies with supreme beings are separated pretty much alone says LT stomps

Originally posted by NemeBro
You're a unique sort of troll.

Originally posted by Cogito
There's really no argument. There is zero ambiguity, as I understand it (not a Spawn reader), regarding MoM's status as the Supreme Being of Image.
Being supreme in a fictional setting doesn't warrant victory in other fictional settings.

The unambiguity comes with that the Living Tribunal has a greater arsenal of feats than the Mother of creation -- the Man of miracles was just one of mother's incarnations, see below.

http://i.imgur.com/BE0ats.jpg

Now if you decide to go with putting congruence relation symbols between all supreme beings in fiction and work from there then yes, the Mother would win. But you'd also end up with a messed up list that even casual readers would roll their eyes to.

Originally posted by Astner
The unambiguity comes with that the Living Tribunal has a greater arsenal of feats than the Mother of creation -- the Man of miracles was just one of mother's incarnations, see below.

The LT has a greater arsenal of feats than TOAA as well.

For such beings though, their station makes feats irrelevant. They are defined by the ability to perform any and all feats.

Originally posted by Cogito
The LT has a greater arsenal of feats than TOAA as well.

For such beings though, their station makes feats irrelevant. They are defined by the ability to perform any and all feats. The TOAA created the Living Tribunal and everything else. Which is a better feat than any of LT's.

Originally posted by Cogito


you're the average fanboy

Originally posted by NemeBro
The TOAA created the Living Tribunal and everything else. Which is a better feat than any of LT's.

MoM created God Spawn and everything else. Which is a better feat that any of LT's.

But again, that station makes feats unnecessary.

Originally posted by Cogito
MoM created God Spawn and everything else. Which is a better feat that any of LT's.

But again, that station makes feats unnecessary.

what is NECESSARY for MoM to create God Spawn?

Originally posted by Jynocidus
you're the average fanboy

I'd rather be average than think the Living Tribunal controls my life kinda

Originally posted by Cogito
I'd rather be average than think the Living Tribunal controls my life kinda

actually, you're not the average fanboy. you're a blind fanboy

none of us are above necessity. if we were, then we would be content. you feel the necessity to reply to my threads, there's one of LT's faces right there fool

don't act like abstract concepts don't exist in the real world, maybe not as costumed galaxy busters but still. it's the point behind their portrayal

Originally posted by Cogito
I'd rather be average blind than think the Living Tribunal controls my life kinda

say that next time you feel the NEED to take a dump, after you obtain the sustenance that you NEED to survive

Nobody NEEDED to take a dump after obtaining sustenance NEEDED to survive before Stan Lee created the Living Tribunal?

or perhaps the Living Tribunal existed before Stan Lee created him? If Stan Lee created the Living Tribunal, does that make him the true God?

What the **** is going on here

Originally posted by Cogito
The LT has a greater arsenal of feats than TOAA as well.
True, however, we're told through exposition that The-one-above-all is more powerful than the Living tribunal. Hence we have that to fall back on as evidence.

We're never explicitly told that the Mother is more powerful than the Living tribunal. So you don't have that piece of evidence to work with.

Originally posted by Cogito
For such beings though, their station makes feats irrelevant. They are defined by the ability to perform any and all feats.
Not within the context of their fictional works. Never was this explained, neither for The-one-above-all nor for the Mother.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
What the **** is going on here

Do you feel the Living Tribunal making you need to know? noneermm

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
What the **** is going on here
Enlightment.

Originally posted by Cogito
Nobody NEEDED to take a dump after obtaining sustenance NEEDED to survive before Stan Lee created the Living Tribunal?

or perhaps the Living Tribunal existed before Stan Lee created him? If Stan Lee created the Living Tribunal, does that make him the true God?

How do you know TOAA didn't take the form of Stan Lee, to create LT? that could have been a necessity

and for all intents and purposes, it looks like that's exactly what happens on panel when the artists and writers portray TOAA and its omnipotence -- as nobody has ever been able to go against unlike Presence or any other false supreme

TOAA isn't god, just like you tried to tell me before, so if you wanna get even more complicated then Stan Lee is saying LT serves someone bigger than HIM, Stan Lee is just the vessel trying to get across to you all that NECESSITY is the law of TOAA

Originally posted by Astner
Not within the context of their fictional works. Never was this explained, neither for The-one-above-all nor for the Mother.

Is MoM not defined as the Supreme Being of Image with infinite everything that would typically accompany that position?

Serious question, I don't read Spawn. My understanding is that Image is an infinite multiverse the same as Marvel and that MoM is omnipotent/omniscient/omnipresent within. If that's not true, then that could change this thread (not Jyno's part, of course)

Originally posted by Jynocidus
How do you know TOAA didn't take the form of Stan Lee, to create LT? that could have been a necessity

and for all intents and purposes, it looks like that's exactly what happens on panel when the artists and writers portray TOAA and its omnipotence -- as nobody has ever been able to go against unlike Presence or any other false supreme

TOAA isn't god, just like you tried to tell me before, so if you wanna get even more complicated then Stan Lee is saying LT serves someone bigger than HIM, Stan Lee is just the vessel trying to get across to you all that NECESSITY is the law of TOAA

I have to admit, there is no logical rebuttal for such an illogical position.

http://chamberofwizdom.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/devil-clap.gif

Originally posted by Jynocidus
How do you know TOAA didn't take the form of Stan Lee, to create LT? that could have been a necessity

and for all intents and purposes, it looks like that's exactly what happens on panel when the artists and writers portray TOAA and its omnipotence -- as nobody has ever been able to go against unlike Presence or any other false supreme

TOAA isn't god, just like you tried to tell me before, so if you wanna get even more complicated then Stan Lee is saying LT serves someone bigger than HIM, Stan Lee is just the vessel trying to get across to you all that NECESSITY is the law of TOAA
nutnut

Originally posted by Cogito
I have to admit, there is no logical rebuttal for such an illogical position.

http://chamberofwizdom.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/devil-clap.gif

lets get back on topic then

what is NECESSARY for MoM to be more capable than LT other than him being jeebus

Originally posted by Jynocidus
How do you know TOAA didn't take the form of Stan Lee, to create LT? that could have been a necessity

and for all intents and purposes, it looks like that's exactly what happens on panel when the artists and writers portray TOAA and its omnipotence -- as nobody has ever been able to go against unlike Presence or any other false supreme

TOAA isn't god, just like you tried to tell me before, so if you wanna get even more complicated then Stan Lee is saying LT serves someone bigger than HIM, Stan Lee is just the vessel trying to get across to you all that NECESSITY is the law of TOAA
Originally posted by Cogito
I have to admit, there is no logical rebuttal for such an illogical position.

http://chamberofwizdom.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/devil-clap.gif

Looks like he got you good.

Originally posted by Cogito
Is MoM not defined as the Supreme Being of Image with infinite everything that would typically accompany that position?

Serious question, I don't read Spawn. My understanding is that Image is an infinite multiverse the same as Marvel and that MoM is omnipotent/omniscient/omnipresent within. If that's not true, then that could change this thread (not Jyno's part, of course) IIRC he was only attributed to making the one universe.

Not sure about how big Image is in scope though. I thought it was only one universe with a shit load of dimensions.

this is why Marvel needs to make more stuff on LT. some people just won't learn until somebody makes a hit comic to get the point across

this supreme being nonsense is nothing but a bait trap

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
IIRC he was only attributed to making the one universe.

Not sure about how big Image is in scope though. I thought it was only one universe with a shit load of dimensions.

So when (s)he said "there is no greater power than me", (s)he was lying or unaware of a potentially higher power?

Originally posted by Astner
http://i.imgur.com/BE0ats.jpg

Originally posted by Cogito
Is MoM not defined as the Supreme Being of Image with infinite everything that would typically accompany that position?
No, he isn't.

Originally posted by Cogito
Serious question, I don't read Spawn. My understanding is that Image is an infinite multiverse the same as Marvel and that MoM is omnipotent/omniscient/omnipresent within. If that's not true, then that could change this thread (not Jyno's part, of course)
At the very least the Mother isn't omniscient, since it's one of the central points in Armageddon tying in with the concept of free will.

I honestly can't recall any details regarding what honors he/she has been attributed with. So I can't comment on that.

Finally. While the word multiverse has been used, it's neither explained-, nor explored in any greater detail. Since most of what happen happens in the same universe.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
IIRC he was only attributed to making the one universe.

Not sure about how big Image is in scope though. I thought it was only one universe with a shit load of dimensions.
Originally posted by Astner
No, he isn't.


At the very least the Mother isn't omniscient, since it's one of the central points in Armageddon tying in with the concept of free will.

I honestly can't recall any details regarding what honors he/she has been attributed with. So I can't comment on that.

Finally. While the word multiverse has been used, it's neither explained-, nor explored in any greater detail. Since most of what happen happens in the same universe.

Interesting stuff. Just read this article by Erik Larsen (one of the founders of Image). According to him, each Image title is limited to it's own singular universe. His conception is much more abstract than that, but that's the gist of it.

That said, if MoM is universal (and limited to one universe), then it would seem LT represents greater power.

Originally posted by Cogito
So when (s)he said "there is no greater power than me", (s)he was lying or unaware of a potentially higher power? It could be seen as unaware, bragging, or then again it could have just been right. Does it put her/him/it above everything else under TOAA?

I mean, say we ignore MoM for a second. Had Imperiex been in the place of MoM in that instance (in Spawnverse), and knowing all we do about him, and had he said that there's no higher power than him, he'd certainly be right wouldn't he? And nothing that I know in Spawnverse has shown a greater degree of power than what Imperiex has.

Hell, all MoM really had to do was spark the big bang, and shape everything in her/his image. Does this put her/him/it on the level of TOAA and Presence... who we know have created beings who can tear down universes or create new ones? Some even with multiversal powers.

I personally won't assume he/she/it is an equal to TOAA and Presence, but I won't fault you for doing so

Originally posted by Cogito
Nobody NEEDED to take a dump after obtaining sustenance NEEDED to survive before Stan Lee created the Living Tribunal?

or perhaps the Living Tribunal existed before Stan Lee created him? If Stan Lee created the Living Tribunal, does that make him the true God?

Stan Lee didn't create Necessity, Equity, or Vengeance.

However, all 3 are required of anyone who calls themselves the "judge" of anything.

The "judge" of the omniverse has to embody all 3 in order to be able to stomp all fake omnipotent characters such as MoM.

Full on shrapnel in the brain

http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/never_7f2fae_212781.jpg

Originally posted by Cogito
Nobody NEEDED to take a dump after obtaining sustenance NEEDED to survive before Stan Lee created the Living Tribunal?

or perhaps the Living Tribunal existed before Stan Lee created him? If Stan Lee created the Living Tribunal, does that make him the true God?

Stan Lee may have created or thought up the concept of LT, but who does LT serve?

give you a hint, it's not MoM

Originally posted by Jynocidus
Stan Lee may have created or thought up the concept of LT, but who does LT serve?

give you a hint, it's not MoM

Now your assertion is that characters from different companies can't be compared?

That's kind of the point of this forum, no?

LT serve his master TOAA.
JYNO logis 101

A. LT was created by TOAA to look Judge his Creation Marvel.
B.The Spectre was created by the PRESENCE to Judge is Creation DC.
C.LT=Spectre more or less
D. TOAA==The PRESENCE
E. LT< The Presence
D. LT VS Presence = 100/100 the presence win with no effort.
bangin
CASE CLOSED

Originally posted by hunbu04
LT serve his master TOAA.
JYNO logis 101

A. LT was created by TOAA to look Judge his Creation Marvel.
B.The Spectre was created by the PRESENCE to Judge is Creation DC.
C.LT=Spectre more or less
D. TOAA==The PRESENCE
E. LT< The Presence
D. LT VS Presence = 100/100 the presence win with no effort.
bangin
CASE CLOSED

the real TOAA isn't Stan Lee, Morrison, or anyone else.

in comics, TOAA takes the form of Stan Lee because he made the continuity that portrays the story

I'm debating the characters themselves created

a character based on the embodiment of necessity beats a character based on being supreme in one continuity, which is nothing but a fragment of the entire omniverse.

the omniverse was created by...whoever you believe in. The characters from the companies (Presence, TOAA, MoM) are small to LT. What is NECESSARY for those characters to be drawn and portrayed as omnipotent? MoM isn't omnipotent if Presence is omnipotent also.

Whichever way you look at it, even if MoM/Presence/TOAA are all the same person, they are not omnipotent because as soon as they shed from the singularity....LT was created, that NECESSITY that keeps them all separate while able to maintain their own individuality.

so yep, call me crazy. but the REAL TOAA could probably integrate MoM, Presence, Marvel TOAA, all back into its being. And that is who the LT serves

and it's logical because NECESSITY exists in all planes of existence, whether fictional or our own.

there's my logic on how LT stomps ladies and gents

Originally posted by Cogito
Now your assertion is that characters from different companies can't be compared?

That's kind of the point of this forum, no?

i do not know how you came to that conclusion about my assertion.

my assertion revolved around LT serving either TOAA, or the continuity in which his native portrayal originates. Which would be over at Marvel where Stan Lee decides how he'd be presented

since this is a vs thread....I get to decide how he's presented, since DC fanboys want to write it off as a spite loss just because he's going against a supreme being and i'm not about to let that happen until someone really provides something worthy of my complete concession.

Originally posted by hunbu04
LT serve his master TOAA.
JYNO logis 101

A. LT was created by TOAA to look Judge his Creation Marvel.
B.The Spectre was created by the PRESENCE to Judge is Creation DC.
C.LT=Spectre more or less
D. TOAA==The PRESENCE
E. LT< The Presence
D. LT VS Presence = 100/100 the presence win with no effort.
bangin
CASE CLOSED LT > Spectre

TOAA > Presence

Actually, LT serves several beings besides TOAA. LT once said, there are several beings greater then him. Originally posted by hunbu04
LT serve his master TOAA.
JYNO logis 101

A. LT was created by TOAA to look Judge his Creation Marvel.
B.The Spectre was created by the PRESENCE to Judge is Creation DC.
C.LT=Spectre more or less
D. TOAA==The PRESENCE
E. LT< The Presence
D. LT VS Presence = 100/100 the presence win with no effort.
bangin
CASE CLOSED

Originally posted by lilshogun
Actually, LT serves several beings besides TOAA. LT once said, there are several beings greater then him. Doom and Iron Fist come to mind.

living tribunal was easily bested by thanos with the heart of the universe, no way is he taking a real multiversal supreme being.

It was argued that that LT made believe Thanos won or pretty much he was played. Why would the TOAA have something in existence that could destroy/defeat him and break the order of the Marvel Omniverse without the living tribunal,who makes the rules?! Originally posted by En Sabah Nur X
living tribunal was easily bested by thanos with the heart of the universe, no way is he taking a real multiversal supreme being.

There is so much fail in this thread... let's add some more.

You could write a Story in which the Supreme being of the Omniverse (your fictional Omniverse) or another interpretation of TOAA is usurped by another being which becomes the one most powerful being in the Omniverse, that doesn't make it real, it's just an fictional story which has nothing to do with the stories of others, there is no continuity between those two.

For comics this means that there can be more supreme beings and more Omniverses. It also proves how limited TOAA and LT are because they can't even see the other Omni-Multi-Universes, they have no influence there and if the judge of the Supreme being of Marveverse believes that they are in an Omniverse, it means they know shit about most other comapnies stories, books etc. so they aren't omniscient, they are just creations of the beings that created them.

dur

Supreme being of one company = Supreme being of another
Company = Company (till one buys the other )

MoM. (S)He's amazing.

MOM Stomps easy

TOAA is fulcrum.
Fulcrum has stated that the dreaming celestial has evolved past his brethren and is HIS equal.

This means that TOAA = the Dreaming celestial
Since Jynocidus believes that you can’t have 2 infinitely powerful beings at the same time it would means that LT serves an imperfect master.


So it proves MOM or other supreme beings from other companies' omniverse >= TOAA > LT.

Originally posted by Diesldude
TOAA is fulcrum.
Fulcrum has stated that the dreaming celestial has evolved past his brethren and is HIS equal.

This means that TOAA = the Dreaming celestial
Since Jynocidus believes that you can’t have 2 infinitely powerful beings at the same time it would means that LT serves an imperfect master.


So it proves MOM or other supreme beings from other companies' omniverse >= TOAA > LT.

.....to my knowledge, that is ridiculous.

anyway, i'm gonna get something to eat and do a little HW on MoM. But if I read anything about him/her having anything to do with heaven or hell, they sure aren't omnipotent. i'm pretty sure i'll be able to get back to my rampage pretty soon

Originally posted by Jynocidus
.....to my knowledge, that is ridiculous.

anyway, i'm gonna get something to eat and do a little HW on MoM. But if I read anything about him/her having anything to do with heaven or hell, they sure aren't omnipotent. i'm pretty sure i'll be able to get back to my rampage pretty soon

I used your logic.... So you can redicule it all you want.

TOAA is not to be confused with the Celestial, you can look that up for yourself. that's the ridiculous part if you haven't caught on yet

LT doesn't serve an imperfect master, LT serves TOAA who is omnipotent...not someone who was created by external forces *ahem*

as for MoM, i've gotta say...at least they've been part of Marvel prior to them being affiliated with DC. maybe that's why they're on the right track as far as omnipotence goes. MoM is a way better concept than the Presence, at least on paper.

they speak of the same entity in concept, the omnipotent end all and be all (i'm comparing TOAA with MoM here). So, what are my options here?

A: Marvel is a bigger company, they make more money. So if TOAA > MoM, TOAA's judge (LT) > MoM. (someone else tried to make the argument, so it's only fair)

or

B: People have already said MoM's feats haven't been above skyfather, we all know LT > any of that nonsense feat-wise. Taking that into consideration, MoM can't out-muscle LT offensively or defensively

or

C: Give MoM the benefit of the doubt, and let it represent omnipotence to dictate the necessity it needs to win. The argument that everybody immediately runs to when they see a God thread. "lolhesgod" (which holds no weight because TOAA vs Presence got closed and they're both "God, or if it does then why make spite threads?)

majority leans towards LT, who stomps in 2 out of 3 scenarios

Originally posted by Diesldude
I used your logic.... So you can redicule it all you want.

You don't want to use his logic.

Originally posted by Jynocidus
LT DOES hold power over you and I.

if TOAA > MoM, TOAA's creation > MoM

we've already identified an argument through previous debate: market share. Marvel has the most, and it's relevant to materialistic debaters

TOAA > MoM also because (insert marvel being so cool and other crap)

TOAA> MoM also because: if having more market share, and arguably being more popular isn't the icing on the cake, having a higher power at the time of questioning (now) should seal it.

^
This power will be used when MoM tries to claim omnipotence, and force TOAA to take that feminine form, which it will object to. TOAA will want to maintain its individuality (who knows if it will be choosy with a he/she thing, but it will ultimately object). The separation of this very individuality, which takes the form of "supreme' beings..., is governed by NECESSITY. LT is the judge of the more powerful "omnipotent" TOAA, and thus his power is greater than MoM.



ontop of every other argument i bring about relying on false omnipotence as a path to victory

MoM for the win imo.

and generally at this thread.