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Alexander messed with the Multiverse and laughed off regular Luthor. Can he hang with Richards? Pre and post crisis count for Alex.

No.
Richards>all.

I find that hard to believe.

It is fact.
The AE used Reed's brain to create reality.

AE?

Alien Entity.

What has he created that puts him above everyone else?

He created ALL reality, just like the Nemesis did using Reed's brain.

He created ALL reality through AE? What does that prove>

AE created ALL reality through Reed...

This is Reed without AE. Just prep for both. No outside forces invloved.

What I meant to prove is that Reed's mind is abstract. Even Galactus said it himself during the first Secret Wars.

Reed>All including Brainiac, LuthorS, Thanos and Doom.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
What I meant to prove is that Reed's mind is abstract. Even Galactus said it himself during the first Secret Wars.

Reed>All including Brainiac, LuthorS, Thanos and Doom. No

Originally posted by TheTyrant
What I meant to prove is that Reed's mind is abstract. Even Galactus said it himself during the first Secret Wars.

Reed>All including Brainiac, LuthorS, Thanos and Doom.

Alex's mind is abstract, too. Stated in first crisis.

^ Galactus said it in Secret Wars I.
AE used Reed to create all reality.

Doesn't really prove anything.

Alexander hardly has the depth and breadth of time to match up to the sheer number of accomplishments. He built Superboy Prime's armor and created a device that allowed him to recreate the multiverse and merge/alter the individual earths as he saw fit, which is pretty much the most ridiculous thing in comics (though needed a lot of different elements to power it, heroes from a bunch of dead universes).

But Reed beats him on sheer consistency and number of feats. You're talking about a guy whose workshop is full of weapons capable of killing Celestials, who has Galactus-stalemating armor, who traverses the multiverse with ease, who designed a device to strip Galactus of his power, etc.

Da guy is crazy, and consistently THE craziest guy in comics. Like the whiz, nobody beats him save for perhaps a few one hit wonders like Alexander Luthor.

Or Metron. Metron has built the Worlogog. I agree with you on depth.

I'd like to see Alex and Reed teamup and see if they can beat the Anti-Monitor together. Would be cool to see.

Reed Richards is arguably smarter than Thanos or Doom, and definitely smarter than the "Scientist Supreme" Hank Pym by a mile.

As for this fight, it could go either way.

For all of Reed's feats, I've never seen him design and create something as complex as an actual working multiverse.

I don't think there is any 'arguable' about it. He is much, MUCH smarter than Thanos, and he's proven his superiority over Doom time and time again.



And yeah, because Alexander Luthor has one or two things only under his belt, I guess he'd win. Because his one thing is huge. But I'd have trouble giving him the win over Reed, who really just pulls whatever he needs out of his @$$ whenever he needs it.

And I've said it before and I'll say it again, as God I don't really feel Metron and his really adhere to the same rules as 'moral' heroes or villains, and I count him differently. It was implied that Orion built the Genesis Box, a device capable of coverting the energy universe into pure energy and rebirthing it as something new...and he's not at all technology genius. A number of subtle hints over the years peppered throughout the Kirby, Morrison, Simonson, Gerber and Evanier work on the characters imply that the technology of the New Gods is really just a metaphor for their power.

Originally posted by Desaad
And I've said it before and I'll say it again, as God I don't really feel Metron and his really adhere to the same rules as 'moral' heroes or villains, and I count him differently. It was implied that Orion built the Genesis Box, a device capable of coverting the energy universe into pure energy and rebirthing it as something new...and he's not at all technology genius. A number of subtle hints over the years peppered throughout the Kirby, Morrison, Simonson, Gerber and Evanier work on the characters imply that the technology of the New Gods is really just a metaphor for their power.

JLA Rock of Ages? I don't think it was states that Orion built it. I've read some debates here and there and Orion never said he built it. Only that he was able to use it. Someone could have given him that. Like Metron or Himon.

Metron was a slave of Darkseid. And Himon never showed that level of technological no how, nor would that explain why he didn't use it himself. Additionally, from what we saw, Orion was the last New God of New Genesis left. And even he was shorn of his divinity.

Good points. I didn't think of that.

BTW, I think you're forgetting Brainaic 5. I think he and Reed would be some good interaction. B5 would be a snobby little bastard, but he'd be amazed at Reed and vice versa.

Originally posted by Desaad
I don't think there is any 'arguable' about it. He is much, MUCH smarter than Thanos, and he's proven his superiority over Doom time and time again.



And yeah, because Alexander Luthor has one or two things only under his belt, I guess he'd win. Because his one thing is huge. But I'd have trouble giving him the win over Reed, who really just pulls whatever he needs out of his @$$ whenever he needs it.
Yes, a single feat comparable, or even surpasses, most Pre-Crisis feats.

I agree with you about Reed. The dude's a walking plot device.

One thing Alex has over Reed is manipulation. He's very good at it. Not just a scientist supreme. Plus, he's from the Pre-Crisis era and they, too can pull crap out of their asses.

PC Lex Luthor for example.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Good points. I didn't think of that.

BTW, I think you're forgetting Brainaic 5. I think he and Reed would be some good interaction. B5 would be a snobby little bastard, but he'd be amazed at Reed and vice versa.

Brainiac 5 is certainly in the running for 'single most powerful invention', I think.

Alexander Luthor wasn't that great at manipulation, actually, and Reed has shown himself to be pretty strategically intelligent.

In Crisis on Infinite Earths, Luthor was a pure-as-the-driven-snow good guy. Ultimately Luthor couldn't control Superboy Prime, and was pretty afraid of him. And, of course, he was killed dead by the Joker.

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
Yes, a single feat comparable, or even surpasses, most Pre-Crisis feats.

In terms of power level, sure.

In terms of ridiculousness, though, no way. Not when you've got Lex Luthor making time machines out of orange juice boxes and used tins of tuna.

Originally posted by Desaad
Brainiac 5 is certainly in the running for 'single most powerful invention', I think.

Details? Are you talking about the one where he stopped an asteroid or something? Pre-crisis? What? I'm pretty new to the LOSH, but they are becoming MY FAVORITE team.

I don't really know what you're referring to, but I'm talking about The Concentrator. It's a device that drains all the energy out of the universe for whatever effect is desired. Literally, while it it is in use there is supposedly no energy in the universe - stars wink out, all nuclear/electrical power is gone (though, strangely, the 'power' within your body doesn't seem to disappear).

Basically, the Time Trapper flings a bunch of Neutron Stars at the Legion...

http://i635.photobucket.com/albums/uu71/Desaad86/Adventure321_19.jpg

http://i635.photobucket.com/albums/uu71/Desaad86/Adventure321_20.jpg


It's one of those things that you never think is going to be referenced, ever again, and then you open up Final Crisis 6 and you're greeted to this...

http://i.newsarama.com/images/fc_6_0004-cv.jpg

That's the Concentrator there in the first two panels, though without the audacious coloring.

HAHAHA! That's cool. This is why I love Morrison. He uses very obscure stuff.

The thing I was talking about was in Jim Starlin's last issues. braiac was strapped to a chair type device and he saved a solar system or something.

Good stuff.

Edited for the full pages, since the little bits I posted earlier wasn't enough.

And gotcha, that was quite a bit less impressive than the Concentrator thing.

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
Reed Richards is arguably smarter than Thanos or Doom, and definitely smarter than the "Scientist Supreme" Hank Pym by a mile.

As for this fight, it could go either way.

For all of Reed's feats, I've never seen him design and create something as complex as an actual working multiverse.

Eternity called him the Explorer. Explorer Extreme?

Reed Richards > Everyone.

Richards.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Reed Richards > Everyone.

Most of the stuff he invents, B5 could easily counter. So I doubt Reed> Everyone else.

Reed wins. Poor luthor couldn't hack it in them mean streets.

a powerless Luthor, yeah.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Most of the stuff he invents, B5 could easily counter. So I doubt Reed> Everyone else.

Reed > Everyone else.

Mathematical proven fact.

But honestly, Reed really is a walking plot device. Especially against cosmic beings. A writer could have him do or invent basically anything, if they wanted to. His brain is a deus ex machine as proven throughout his history. Apparently he can even stretch to make it accommodate problems.

The closest being I can picture in DC that can be treated the way Reed does in terms of deus ex abilities is Braniac 5. I love the character. His really interesting. I wish he were given a mini.

I want my Legion of Superhero stores god damn it! Honestly, walking piles of crap like Mangog get a book but the Legion is reserved to a freaking second feature? Man, I'm going to go re-read some Legion books when I have the time. Really miss those stories.

DC and their apparent inability to handle continuity really did a piss poor job handling Legion with all these big events until Final Crisis. I might not like Johns but at least he tried to solve it and he rights a good Legion story. I just wish he worked on his handling of power levels better.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Honestly, walking piles of crap like Mangog get a book but the Legion is reserved to a freaking second feature?

QFT.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Reed > Everyone else.

Mathematical proven fact.

But honestly, Reed really is a walking plot device. Especially against cosmic beings. A writer could have him do or invent basically anything, if they wanted to. His brain is a deus ex machine as proven throughout his history. Apparently he can even stretch to make it accommodate problems.

The closest being I can picture in DC that can be treated the way Reed does in terms of deus ex abilities is Braniac 5. I love the character. His really interesting. I wish he were given a mini.

I want my Legion of Superhero stores god damn it! Honestly, walking piles of crap like Mangog get a book but the Legion is reserved to a freaking second feature? Man, I'm going to go re-read some Legion books when I have the time. Really miss those stories.

DC and their apparent inability to handle continuity really did a piss poor job handling Legion with all these big events until Final Crisis. I might not like Johns but at least he tried to solve it and he rights a good Legion story. I just wish he worked on his handling of power levels better.

B5 is treated the same. A walking plot device. He's even created devices on the level or above Reed. He's brought people back from the dead, he's gone up against his share of cosmic beings himself. Time Trapper, Prophet, Omen, Darkseid, etc... There really is no proof that Reed is above Brainiac, except for personal bias, IMO.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
B5 is treated the same. A walking plot device. He's even created devices on the level or above Reed. He's brought people back from the dead, he's gone up against his share of cosmic beings himself. Time Trapper, Prophet, Omen, Darkseid, etc... There really is no proof that Reed is above Brainiac, except for personal bias, IMO.



Actually I like Braniac 5 more than I like Reed. I just acknowledge that Reed is well Reed.

I agree Braniac 5 has created inventions on what we consider Reed level but above Reed's level of intelligence? Nah.

Are we listing feats now?

I don't think B5 is smarter than Reed or vice versa. I think they would be peers amongst each other. Like I said before, it would be VERY interesting if both met.

And don't worry, Levitz is coming back. The art for the new book looks AWESOME.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
a powerless Luthor, yeah. Whose fault is that? Yeah, Luthor was outLuthored by Luthor.

Alex wasn't that smart. If he were smart he would have let the Joker play . As in joining his squad not the other kind of "playing".

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus


Actually I like Braniac 5 more than I like Reed. I just acknowledge that Reed is well Reed.

I agree Braniac 5 has created inventions on what we consider Reed level but above Reed's level of intelligence? Nah.

Are we listing feats now?

Just asking, who do you think is the smartest of the B's?