Ways to attack Jedi/Sith that blaster wielding foes don't seem to use that often

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Hewhoknowsall
With two pistols, you could fire one high and one low at the same time.
With multiple soldiers, you could fire at the same time in different spaces instead of taking turns to fire.
You could use a shotgun that fires in a spread.
You could use automatic weapons.

Or possibly Jedi/Sith/other Force users have a counter to all of these.

Nephthys
Sonic weapons are hard to counter unless you know how, and even then probably take more effort than standard blasters.

Darth Angel
Just throw away the blaster and grab an Ak-47 and the jedi is dead... No jedi would survive an assault rifle, especially if it's more then one wielder who is firing from a different direction due to overwhelming firing rate and unability do deflect the ammo back to the shooter.

Ms.Marvel
ive been barking up this tree since forever.

just go dig up my old posts on the subject, twill provide all the answers you want. a jedi would last maybe an hour in the real world before he gets taken down. theyre too linear.

akpwnz
You're assuming a Jedi wouldn't adapt. They would though. Even the first few battles with the Yuuzhan Vong were lost until they figured out to adapt and counter.

Read up on "force shield" I have no doubts that if they concentrated their efforts on other defenses, a simple shotgun blast would be more laughable than a shot from a DL-44.

Ms.Marvel
given enough time anyone can adapt to anything. its an inconsequential point

SithAce_1
They had guns i.e. "slugthrowers" in Star Wars. They had them before they had blasters and such. Jedi awareness works a lot like the Matrix thing were they could avoid or just stop bullets in mid air. "The force exists between me and you. Between you and the rock, the tree, it flows through us and binds us." Or something like that hehe. So no guns aren't effective against Jedi. IMO

Ms.Marvel
no.

akpwnz
Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
given enough time anyone can adapt to anything. its an inconsequential point

Not really. You said a Jedi would last an hour, I said they would reaccess the situation.

Mara Jade had to re-adapt with her first encounter within a matter of seconds.

SithAce_1
What do you mean by No? I just finished Outcast and Han uses slugthower types of weapons for the spiders on Kessel cus they absorb energy weapons. He even had a shotgun like weapon. Just wondering what ya meant?

KingD19
Slugthrowers are harder to block than standard blasters, but Jedi do it all the time.

Nephthys
In DN, even Luke noticed that they were hard to block iirc, but yep, tehy were doing it.

Ms.Marvel
Originally posted by akpwnz
Not really. You said a Jedi would last an hour, I said they would reaccess the situation.

Mara Jade had to re-adapt with her first encounter within a matter of seconds.

how can he react if hes dead? the jedi wont survive the fist encounter. you act as if he'll get "beaten" and then be able to learn from his mistakes and fight again later. do you know whats going to happen when the jedi tries to defend himself for the first time from a shotgun blast or a flurrry of fully automatic gunfire and it doesnt work? hes going to die. there is no "adaptation".

akpwnz
Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
how can he react if hes dead? the jedi wont survive the fist encounter. you act as if he'll get "beaten" and then be able to learn from his mistakes and fight again later. do you know whats going to happen when the jedi tries to defend himself for the first time from a shotgun blast or a flurrry of fully automatic gunfire and it doesnt work? hes going to die. there is no "adaptation".

Many Jedi have died to automatic blaster and quad blaster bolts before too. Look how many died via blaster bolts during order 66.

So basically your argument is "Machine guns > blasters"

How adorable!

Ms.Marvel
what does thisOriginally posted by akpwnz
Many Jedi have died to automatic blaster and quad blaster bolts before too. Look how many died via blaster bolts during order 66. have to do with this:

Major Valerian
Um, no.

Weapons such as the AK-47 would probably be uneffective. Most Jedi need a lightsaber to deflect an incoming blaster shot. They wouldn't need it to stop bullets. Bullets are usually metal projectiles. Emphasis on metal. The Force > metal projectiles. They can just stop them at midair, like Neo does in the Matrix. They can't do that with blaster fire.

REXXXX
I don't think a Jedi could outright stop a bullet in a Neo fashion, not unless they were particularly powerful... but they could make it miss quite easily. It's just not something we see particularly often in the Star Wars universe.

'Dangerous in numbers' works for multiple shooters, yeah. That's why Order 66 and the Battle of Geonosis went so poorly for Jedi. Aside from the element of surprise with Order 66, they're also taking fire from sooo many shooters.

So no, AK-47 wouldn't do all that much more.

Lord Lucien
This thread... I sense something. Something I've not felt since...

SithAce_1
LOL Lord Lucien!

truejedi
Originally posted by REXXXX
I don't think a Jedi could outright stop a bullet in a Neo fashion, not unless they were particularly powerful... but they could make it miss quite easily. It's just not something we see particularly often in the Star Wars universe.

'Dangerous in numbers' works for multiple shooters, yeah. That's why Order 66 and the Battle of Geonosis went so poorly for Jedi. Aside from the element of surprise with Order 66, they're also taking fire from sooo many shooters.

So no, AK-47 wouldn't do all that much more.

This is very true. The Jedi don't have to stop the bullets, just redirect them, and they have Tiny Mass.

C'Baoth stopping a missile in mid-air shows the speed of the object doesn't matter too much, especially in a redirection.

Red Nemesis
Originally posted by truejedi
This is very true. The Jedi don't have to stop the bullets, just redirect them, and they have Tiny Mass.

C'Baoth stopping a missile in mid-air shows the speed of the object doesn't matter too much, especially in a redirection.
Didn't we just agree that stopping said missile is a ridonkulouslee insane feat?

Major Valerian
Lulz that would've been a nice twist.

truejedi
Originally posted by Red Nemesis
Didn't we just agree that stopping said missile is a ridonkulouslee insane feat?

The stopping dead, yes. But re-directing a bullet is as simple as moving one that is sitting on a table sideways. X and Y coordinates are completely independent of one another.

That was the coolest thing I learned in physics, other than maybe how gravity works. If you take something, and throw it sideways, it will hit the ground exactly at the same time as something you drop, because the y factor is the same, even though you gave one a force in the x direction.

Ms.Marvel
where is this assumption that jedi who arent ridiculously powerful can redirect an object moving as a fast as a bullet (much less 30-40 at one time) coming from?

truejedi
well, the amount of mass is trivial to push a bullet sideways. Are you somehow saying something moving fast is harder to find in the force? You may be right, but provide a quote please.

mattatom
I know theres a quote somewhere saying its harder to manipulate small things because of the precision needed.

I'm going to be lazy here and list a couple of possible techniques from Wookie thumb up

Force Deflection
"Protection Bubble"
Either seem likely?

truejedi
manipulate, but deflect?

mattatom
Originally posted by truejedi
manipulate, but deflect? Wouldn't know, never read a SW book to date with slugthrowers in.

truejedi
The Vong used them a lot, but the Jedi just blocked them with sabers... Though I'm pretty sure Luke stopped a whole bunch of them in a neo like moment one time.

mattatom
Originally posted by truejedi
The Vong used them a lot, but the Jedi just blocked them with sabers... Though I'm pretty sure Luke stopped a whole bunch of them in a neo like moment one time. Iirc Kenobi deflected Durges projectiles. All I know of the Vong is from here and the comics.

Hewhoknowsall
Also, as I stated in the OP, what if, when multiple blaster/gun wielding foes are taking on a Jedi/Sith/other Force user that has a lightsaber, they just shoot at the same in at seperate locations? How can anyone block a shot aiming at the back of the head and one at the foot at the same time?

Or maybe there's a way to counter this as well, as someone ought to have thought of it.

Oh, and in FOTJ Backlash, a Sith deflected a blaster bolt with his hand.

Nephthys
They could just move out of the way. Like in TMP with the Droideka's. Disrupt their firing with the Force like just pushing someone over or pulling away someones blaster. Or heck, they could angle the blade so both or all the shots are reflected back.

Yeah, I've noticed that more people can use that now. Which sucks. I always thought it was a really high-end ability, like what Force Lightning used to be. And just like Force Lightning, now everyone and their mommas can do it.

Red Nemesis
Originally posted by truejedi
The stopping dead, yes. But re-directing a bullet is as simple as moving one that is sitting on a table sideways. X and Y coordinates are completely independent of one another.

That was the coolest thing I learned in physics, other than maybe how gravity works. If you take something, and throw it sideways, it will hit the ground exactly at the same time as something you drop, because the y factor is the same, even though you gave one a force in the x direction.

They taught you how gravity works? We were just told that it does.

TBH, our physics curriculum isn't particularly impressive, and I've been slacking. The teacher is awesome though.

truejedi
Well, how to figure out what it was for any two objects. There is a law where you can figure out the force of the gravity between any two objects. It was pretty sweet.

Gravity is also the reason for weighlessness in space, cause you are in free fall when in orbit. I had always assumed the reason for weightlessness was that you were farther away from the earth, but that isn't true at all.

Darth Martin
Originally posted by Darth Angel
Just throw away the blaster and grab an Ak-47 and the jedi is dead... No jedi would survive an assault rifle, especially if it's more then one wielder who is firing from a different direction due to overwhelming firing rate and unability do deflect the ammo back to the shooter. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cug2tjhHI-g

truejedi
yeah, 1:36 pretty much sums it up.


However, Evan Piel died to 5 stormtroopers, from a single grenade. Not a great showing at all. Maybe they have fine tactics.

Lord Lucien
And what was up with 3:22? Kenobi was deflecting blaster bolts with his hands?

Nephthys

Red Nemesis
Originally posted by truejedi
Well, how to figure out what it was for any two objects. There is a law where you can figure out the force of the gravity between any two objects. It was pretty sweet.

Gravity is also the reason for weighlessness in space, cause you are in free fall when in orbit. I had always assumed the reason for weightlessness was that you were farther away from the earth, but that isn't true at all.
Oh that. That is the same as for... charge I think? Pretty sure it was for charge. I thought you were talking about propagation of gravity, which, as far as I know, is still not understood.

The coolest thing about space (and freefall) for me is that when the rocket wants to accelerate it has to bring along something to push off against.

Lord Lucien
Silly rabbit quoted yourself.

truejedi
Red: Yes, we would assume the rocket would do it, but it doesn't.

Love that, and yes, the reason for gravity is unknown. It has recently been suggested that it is not actually a fundamental law, and that it behaves differently in different situations. THAT is freaky.

Hewhoknowsall
Originally posted by truejedi
Red: Yes, we would assume the rocket would do it, but it doesn't.

Love that, and yes, the reason for gravity is unknown. It has recently been suggested that it is not actually a fundamental law, and that it behaves differently in different situations. THAT is freaky.

That's puzzled me...that is, why gravity even exists.

Red Nemesis
Originally posted by truejedi
Red: Yes, we would assume the rocket would do it, but it doesn't.

Love that, and yes, the reason for gravity is unknown. It has recently been suggested that it is not actually a fundamental law, and that it behaves differently in different situations. THAT is freaky.
I read a story where going faster than c made gravity work in reverse--becoming a repulsive force. (Much like Slash's face.) It was Asimov, of course.

Wouldn't it have to be a fundamental law, in that it is a fundamental force?

truejedi
http://www.openthemagazine.com/article/science/fundamental-forces-and-chopping-wood

that is a bit dry, but hopefully it will point you to other more to the point sources.

Red Nemesis
I disagree that doing physics is like chopping wood. It is a bit more like meditation, if you ask me.


The part that was really interesting was this:

We've all heard about Dark Energy (great video, please excuse the very unnecessary jabs at religion) and this incorporates that. Very cool. (The best part of pop-science is finding out exactly where our understanding ends and then blasting past that line.)

Allankles
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
With two pistols, you could fire one high and one low at the same time.
With multiple soldiers, you could fire at the same time in different spaces instead of taking turns to fire.
You could use a shotgun that fires in a spread.
You could use automatic weapons.

Or possibly Jedi/Sith/other Force users have a counter to all of these.

The best projectile weapon against Jedi are the concussive weapons the Imperial Remnant were using during the Jedi Outcast and Academy periods. They seemed to be almost like Gravity guns (Half Life) or force guns (Dead Space) - unblockable projectiles.

And slugs can be deflected with TK manipulation. A jedi wouldn't need to be a remarkably strong force user to put up a wall of TK to deflect small projectiles.

Ms.Marvel
yeah! which is why they do it all the time.

truejedi
pushing them to the right or left would be trivial.

Ms.Marvel
it really wouldnt, in fact calling up the force shield would be much more practical.

exerting force on a specific bullet to change its directory would mean that you cant defend yourself from it until after its fired from the gun. no jedi has the reflexes necessary to focus on a .5 inch invisible object moving at the speed of sound before it hits them, regardless of how easy it would be to change the directory.

and not only that, but you would need to do it multiple times in some cases. you would have to do it so fast that by the time the next bullet exits the barrel and is speeding toward youre already done with the first bullet and already focusing on the next. thats not happening, for any jedi.

thats also not counting shotguns, which scatter into dozens of pellets when shot, meaning that you would have to change not just the directory of one invisible bullet moving faster than sound, but dozens of invisible pellets moving at the speed of sound. also not happening.

Rogue Jedi
Rapid fire from an AK47.

Ms.Marvel
indeed. most AK's have a magazine of 30 rounds, and they fire 600 rounds a minute. thats 20 rounds a second. i dont think any jedi, even luke (post DE he did struggle against a droideka in vision of the future), could redirect 20 invisible objects moving at the speed of sound, in one second.

Nephthys
cug2tjhHI-g

Obi-Wan didn't seem to have much trouble at 1.40. You could argue perhaps that they weren't moving as fast as actual bullets, except that actual guns do exist in Star Wars and Jedi have dealt with them before.

Ms.Marvel
what does that video have to do with anything ive said?

Nephthys
That Jedi have ways to deal with bullets. A simple Force barrier can stop them. They could always just Force speed out of the way of the shots as well.

Also Luke and others deal with shotgun blasts in DN iirc. Either with the Force or with their lightsabers. Most of the insectoid bounty-hunters etc utilise them.

Ms.Marvel
apparently not, considering prior to that obi-wan took like 6 punches to the chest and couldnt do a thing to stop them. also the "bullets" in that scene werent moving even a quarter as fast as real life bullets do. your edit doesnt actually refute that point. if jedi have stopped fully automatic bullets in midair then post it...

so they have a way to defend against, like, blow darts...

Lord Lucien
Is that the video where Obi-Wan blocks lasers with the Force?

Ms.Marvel
he doesnt block lasers he blocks these little spike thingies durge shoots out of his wrist gauntlet, as well as fire.

Ms.Marvel
STOP WITH THESE MIND GAMES TJ

Nephthys
He also does block lasers at 3.20.

edit: Err, I mean blaster bolts. If theres any difference.

Lord Lucien
Yup, 3:20. Blaster bolts from a droideka.

truejedi
excuse me, Marvel?

Ms.Marvel
Originally posted by Nephthys
He also does block lasers at 3.20.

edit: Err, I mean blaster bolts. If theres any difference.

oh.. i didnt watch that far in : x

Originally posted by truejedi
excuse me, Marvel?

i was sleep deprived yesterday >.>

edit- also i just noticed that in my posts i kept saying "directory". its "trajectory". where were all the grammar nazis to point that out?

Allankles
Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
apparently not, considering prior to that obi-wan took like 6 punches to the chest and couldnt do a thing to stop them. also the "bullets" in that scene werent moving even a quarter as fast as real life bullets do. your edit doesnt actually refute that point. if jedi have stopped fully automatic bullets in midair then post it...

so they have a way to defend against, like, blow darts...

You forgot that Jedi have some level of precognition. Sure some would get killed but many more would have a TK barrier up to deflect the bullets.

The average Jedi might have problems manipulating large objects with TK but small objects are not a problem. A bullet flies their way and right before the gun is fired a Jedi can either move with force speed ahead of the guns aim (since the person using the gun is limited to human reflexes) or they can put up a wall of TK to deflect the projectiles.

Red Nemesis

REXXXX
Indeed, it becomes a matter of precision with smaller objects.

Still, Jedi precognition would help greatly.

chilled monkey
Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
apparently not, considering prior to that obi-wan took like 6 punches to the chest and couldnt do a thing to stop them.

Yeah, I'm sure that had nothing to do with the fact Durge has incredible speed and reflexes. He even told Anakin in the comics at one point "you're all moving in slow-motion to me."

Seriously, an AK-47 (or whatever) would be useless against Jedi/Sith. Why do you think hardly anyone uses slugthrowers in Star Wars? It's because slugthrowers are obsolete and typically are used only when nothing better is available. If slugthrowers were effective against Jedi, then people would use them. They aren't used, so clearly they aren't effective.

Red Nemesis
Originally posted by chilled monkey
Yeah, I'm sure that had nothing to do with the fact Durge has incredible speed and reflexes. He even told Anakin in the comics at one point "you're all moving in slow-motion to me."

Seriously, an AK-47 (or whatever) would be useless against Jedi/Sith. Why do you think hardly anyone uses slugthrowers in Star Wars? It's because slugthrowers are obsolete and typically are used only when nothing better is available. If slugthrowers were effective against Jedi, then people would use them. They aren't used, so clearly they aren't effective.

This is a textbook example of begging the question.

See to it that it doesn't happen again.

truejedi
Originally posted by Red Nemesis
This is a textbook example of begging the question.

See to it that it doesn't happen again.
You aren't the boss of him!

Red Nemesis
Originally posted by truejedi
You aren't the boss of him!
au contraire

For i am the true boss of evry1

it is others whom r nt teh bozz de mai

Allankles
Originally posted by Red Nemesis
She turned her focus back to their surroundings. It still rankled her that she hadn't noticed the Cthons before they had attacked, and she had vowed to herself not to let something like that happen again. Seeking out life-forms around her with the Force was a task with varying degrees of difficulty. Intelligent, Force-sensitive beings were usually easy to spot, of course, while lower-level forms-insects and animals, for example-did not broadcast nearly much of a blip on her mental radar. It was true that her mastery of the Force was nowhere near perfect, but that was no excuse for not doing the best she could. Her Twi'lek Master had once explained to her that sensitivity and fine-tuning came with time. "As a Padawan," he had said, "I could push boulders around with ease, but seeds were next to impossible."

Interesting. Ignoring that this is a single authors interpretation, a bubble or wall or barrier of telekinesis would be the ideal way for a Jedi to protect themselves from projectiles.

It wouldn't involve pinpointing small objects, simply manipulating kinetic energy around their bodies, like a personal energy shield only with their TK. Obi Wan in his fight with Durge seemed to put up a barrier in front of him, and the slugs had no option but to get deflected.

Ms.Marvel
Originally posted by chilled monkey
Yeah, I'm sure that had nothing to do with the fact Durge has incredible speed and reflexes. He even told Anakin in the comics at one point "you're all moving in slow-motion to me."

which is why ten seconds later obi-wan chopped him in half amirite? haermm

as for precog. i dont think you guys understand how precog works...

Rogue Jedi
7wg1pFNwTOE

lUe4NWiOq5A

REXXXX
Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
which is why ten seconds later obi-wan chopped him in half amirite? haermm

as for precog. i dont think you guys understand how precog works...

Having incredible reflexes doesn't make him completely invincible...

Pray do tell how precognition works, then. Jedi are highly intuitive and have a danger sense that tells them when danger is imminent. Am I wrong?

Lord Lucien
They're like Spider-Man. But less gay.

REXXXX
Basically. And their precognition is limited, sure, but they have enough to know when things are coming at them and where from.

Ms.Marvel
Originally posted by REXXXX
Having incredible reflexes doesn't make him completely invincible...

doesnt make him nearly* invincible stick out tongue



nope, youre not.

it doesnt talk to them, though. its more like "quick danger from the left!" as opposed to "quick a gun will fire at you from the left and will fire bullets faster than you can deflect and you cant deflect the shotgun shells so put up a force shield instead!", the latter of which seems to be something that some people would actually believe...

if someone with an assault rifle were to open fire on a jedi his force precognition would tell him that dangers coming from the left and he'd swing his lightsaber around to the left. he wouldnt realize "oh wait i cant deflect these like i can with blasters so let me raise a shield instead" until after he already failed. the force wouldnt tell him, in the case of a shotgun, that he better put up a force wall because he cant deflect the buckshot spread

EDIT-

something that hasnt been mentioned yet; weve been focusing on real world weapons. what about in the star wars universe itself? they have shotguns that fire laser spreads. how would a jedi defend against that?

Nephthys
Precog changes from author to author I find.

Ms.Marvel
thats true

mattatom
Absorb the blaster bolts with the Force? Or catch them all on the Jedi's saber, hell Luke managed to Absorb AT AT bolts in his earlier years.

chilled monkey
Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
which is why ten seconds later obi-wan chopped him in half amirite? haermm


You do realise, don't you, that I don't actually write the comics?

I'm just quoting what was actually stated in said comic. You may not like it, but that is the truth. Don't like it; go and complain to the writer.

Besides by that point, Kenobi had gotten his measure.

Anyway, Jedi can block bullets as easily as blaster bolts, they just can't deflect them because the slug would get disintegrated by the lightsabre blade. The only reason blaster bolts SEEM slower than bullets is for more dramatic on-screen effect. In actual fact they're faster than bullets (again why do you think practically nobody uses slugthrowers?).

It's the same as how we hear the sounds in the space battles. This is just for dramatic effect (let's be honest, would they be as exciting to watch with no sound?). We are not meant to assume that outer space in Star Wars has an atmosphere.

Nephthys
Actually, I believe Han mention's in New Hope that sounds are artificially created in space by their ships so they can fight better by knowing where everyone is. I think, anyway.

Ms.Marvel
the author didnt say that, durge did.




where did i say that bullets move faster than blaster bolts?

Hewhoknowsall
Originally posted by chilled monkey


I'm just quoting what was actually stated in said comic. You may not like it, but that is the truth. Don't like it; go and complain to the writer.


Durge is not all knowing and was likely bluffing or simply being the usual arrogant villain.

SWFan4Life
This is an awesome thread by the way. I've always wanted to see a debate on the whole bullets/blaster bolts and Jedi ability to deflect said projectiles.

From what everyone's posted, and based on everything I have read, Force Barrier and TK sound like the simplest method to render bullets and other small metal projectiles useless (otherwise, adversaries would toss their blaster rifles for Sand People projectile rifles).

Additionally, Jacen Solo has deflected blaster bolts with his hands before (I believe in Balance Point, or one of the other NJO series novels, and then again during the Swarm Wars when a turbolaser was fired at him; I recall the awe his sister had for abilities she didn't know he could possess).

chilled monkey
Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
the author didnt say that, durge did.

Again, I didn't decide what Durge said. Don't blame the messenger.


Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
where did i say that bullets move faster than blaster bolts?

Right here, in the following quotes:

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
a jedi would last maybe an hour in the real world before he gets taken down.

Why?

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
no jedi has the reflexes necessary to focus on a .5 inch invisible object moving at the speed of sound before it hits them, regardless of how easy it would be to change the directory."

Being "invisible" is irrelevent. Jedi don't need to see projectiles, they can feel them in the Force. So if Jedi reflexes are good enough to block blaster bolts, why wouldn't they be able to block bullets if bullets are slower?

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
and not only that, but you would need to do it multiple times in some cases. you would have to do it so fast that by the time the next bullet exits the barrel and is speeding toward youre already done with the first bullet and already focusing on the next. thats not happening, for any jedi.

See above

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
most AK's have a magazine of 30 rounds, and they fire 600 rounds a minute. thats 20 rounds a second. i dont think any jedi, even luke, could redirect 20 invisible objects moving at the speed of sound, in one second.

See above.

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
if someone with an assault rifle were to open fire on a jedi his force precognition would tell him that dangers coming from the left and he'd swing his lightsaber around to the left. he wouldnt realize "oh wait i cant deflect these like i can with blasters so let me raise a shield instead"

So, if you are NOT claiming that bullets are faster than blaster bolts, then why wouldn't he be able to deflect (or more precisely, block) bullets from an assault rifle?

Hewhoknowsall
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Durge is not all knowing and was likely bluffing or simply being the usual arrogant villain.

truejedi
Blaster shots obviously move as fast as bullets, that should be pretty clear. They are visible simply because they are long streaks of light as opposed to 1 inch pieces of metal. We could see bullets in flight as well if they were 24 inches long.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Xlg9WFITBs

that clip pretty much shows that blasters aren't slower, and are possible faster than bullets. Especially during the long range fighting after leaving the arena. The lasers were arriving at their targets far in the distance pretty much instantly.

Autokrat
A bullet from a typical assault rifle is moving thousands of feet per second.

Blasters don't even come close.

chilled monkey
Originally posted by truejedi
Blaster shots obviously move as fast as bullets, that should be pretty clear. They are visible simply because they are long streaks of light as opposed to 1 inch pieces of metal. We could see bullets in flight as well if they were 24 inches long.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Xlg9WFITBs

that clip pretty much shows that blasters aren't slower, and are possible faster than bullets. Especially during the long range fighting after leaving the arena. The lasers were arriving at their targets far in the distance pretty much instantly.

Precisely, thank you.

Originally posted by Autokrat
A bullet from a typical assault rifle is moving thousands of feet per second.

Blasters don't even come close.

Then why are slugthrowers practically never used in the Star Wars universe?

Blasters are clearly the superior weapons.

SithAce_1
Well first of all this is George Lucas's ideas based on his expirences... like Flash Gorden used laser guns i.e. star wars blasters. Blasters are used because they are sci-fy and just look plain cool compared to machine guns.
Blasters are imaginary so you can't compare them to machine guns stats.
But that being said Jedi percieve time a lot differently than real people do. Everything coming at them like blaster shots seem to slow down to about like a wiffle ball pitch speed no matter how fast it is actually traveling. Jedi also have Force speed...anyone catch in the movie when Obi and Jinn run away from the droidikas they seem to be in front of them then one moment than all the way down the hall the next? From what I can tell they would be able to do the 100yd dash in less time than real people do the 40yd sprint.
And yes they do use slugthowers(guns) in star wars but most are simple rifle types and shotgun types. And are considered Ancient tech and NOT as powerful as blasters. Han uses a "shotgun" in the novel Outcast for the Kessel spice spiders cus they absorb energy weapons.(blasters)
Of course this is my opinion.

Autokrat
Originally posted by chilled monkey
Then why are slugthrowers practically never used in the Star Wars universe?

Blasters are clearly the superior weapons.

Because the people in SW have terrible taste for tactics? Plus, blaster bolts are photons given mass by tibana gas somehow. They explode on contact.

That being said, the real reason is because flashy bolts of light are the staple of sci-fi.

Nephthys
I wonder why no-ones asked whether 'slug-thrower's are as fast as RL guns yet. I mean, are we just assuming that they're faster than blaster bolts. Becuase if they actually were as fast as guns then it would be ****ing retarded to use anything but them, when they're soooooo much faster than bolts.

They probably aren't all that and thats why they aren't used..

One Free Man
I read that they slow things down for the camera, and jedi move faster than the eye can see, very often. Makes sense that blaster bolts wouldn't be an exception.

Also, Blaster bolts might just show up because they are EXTREMELY BRIGHT. you won't be able to see a bullet because it's lead and dark and stuff, but you can see tracer rounds.
N3kNH3_cytE

Autokrat
Originally posted by Nephthys
I wonder why no-ones asked whether 'slug-thrower's are as fast as RL guns yet. I mean, are we just assuming that they're faster than blaster bolts. Becuase if they actually were as fast as guns then it would be ****ing retarded to use anything but them, when they're soooooo much faster than bolts.

They probably aren't all that and thats why they aren't used..

So Star Wars, with its magical technology and ability to break and bend physics at will, wouldn't be able to make guns that could complete with ours?

Right.

One Free Man
Actually if you watch my video it looks like the bullet travels at roughly the same speed as blaster bullets. combined with the fact that bolts travel in a perfectly straight line, bolts are going to be more effective.

Nephthys
It's George Lucas. no expression

Autokrat
One, that was handgun, which pales in comparison to the power put behind the rounds in an assault rifle due rifling and extended barrel length.

Two, guns fire way faster while blasters have pathetic rates of fire.

One Free Man
Depends on the round, actually, barrel length and rifling have nothing to do with FPS.

Autokrat
Whatever (ignoring the stabilizing properties of rifling), my point still stands, idiot. Rifles have greater velocities then pistols and again, rapid rates of fire, which allow for suppression fire. Given SW tech, it wouldn't surprise me if their slugthrowers put our guns to shame.

The only advantage blasters have over bullets is that the "bolt" explodes on impact, which isn't really much of an advantage when a bullet will do the job just fine.

SWFan4Life
Originally posted by Autokrat
Whatever (ignoring the stabilizing properties of rifling), my point still stands, idiot. Rifles have greater velocities then pistols and again, rapid rates of fire, which allow for suppression fire. Given SW tech, it wouldn't surprise me if their slugthrowers put our guns to shame.

The only advantage blasters have over bullets is that the "bolt" explodes on impact, which isn't really much of an advantage when a bullet will do the job just fine.

Are blasters > slugthrowers?

If so, if you think slugthrows > guns, then blasters > guns.

How do you know blaster shots are slower than automatic rifle shots? Remember we're talking "in-universe" and comparing to real universe

Lord Lucien
He's got a point. Star Wars physics take liberties with reality. Their tech. literally works on magic by our reckoning.

One Free Man
Originally posted by Autokrat
Whatever (ignoring the stabilizing properties of rifling), my point still stands, idiot. no need to throw names, b1tch. And no it doesn't. NCsnSr6lqKM USAF firing tracer rounds out of assault rifles. If you compare with the footage aBivZBxAF0Q, the difference in speed is actually not that great.
Don't give a shit, i'm comparing rifles to blasters, and they seem similar. Also, on occasion, there have been rapid-fire blasters.eUkuaJdSfJ0 1:55 on, if you would.
bull-pucky. The explosion will help with armor piercing, (bet your lead cant defeat durasteel) etc.

Also, jedi are supposed to move faster than the eye can see, what are a few fps going to do? Nothing.

Autokrat
I stand corrected. You win this argument.

One Free Man
Class act right there. takes balls to say that.

SWFan4Life
It's interesting to note, on some level, thud bugs were harder for less-powerful Jedi to dodge than blaster bolts, but not because of their speed or that they were like bullets, but more because they couldn't FEEL them due to Vongtech not being visible in the Force.

Pwned
2 words: tactical















NUKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

darth radon
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
With two pistols, you could fire one high and one low at the same time.
With multiple soldiers, you could fire at the same time in different spaces instead of taking turns to fire.
You could use a shotgun that fires in a spread.
You could use automatic weapons.

Or possibly Jedi/Sith/other Force users have a counter to all of these. those wold all work on a non advanced jedi/sith with less than thrree lightsabers. put against grevoius u better have alot of blasters

darth radon
Originally posted by REXXXX
I don't think a Jedi could outright stop a bullet in a Neo fashion, not unless they were particularly powerful... but they could make it miss quite easily. It's just not something we see particularly often in the Star Wars universe.

'Dangerous in numbers' works for multiple shooters, yeah. That's why Order 66 and the Battle of Geonosis went so poorly for Jedi. Aside from the element of surprise with Order 66, they're also taking fire from sooo many shooters.

So no, AK-47 wouldn't do all that much more. it depends on how u look at it a powerful jedi such as luke could slow them down enough to flik the out the sky

Darth Truculent
IED (Improvised Explosive Device)

Nephthys
Shove a Nuke/SW equivilant up their ass. Insignificant compared to the power of the Force my....ass.....

truejedi
Originally posted by darth radon
it depends on how u look at it a powerful jedi such as luke could slow them down enough to flik the out the sky

Master C'baoth stopped a missile in mid air. That means a bullet would probably meet the same fate.

RE: Blaxican
Except, that doesn't make any sense at all.

Jinsoku Takai
Why doesn't it???

truejedi
i would have to say, yes. Yes it does. Missiles are as fast as or faster than bullets, and of greater mass and more continuous thrust. If TK can stop a Missile in mid-air like neo, it can stop a bullet in mid-air like neo.

Lord Lucien
One bullet, yes, but a hail of them from an automatic rifle? That's pushing it. Especially if it's from multiple rifles.

Though to be fair to a Jedi, Obi-Wan did deflect blaster fire with the Force in the Clone Wars. Which as we all know is T-canon amirite? *highfive*

truejedi
Its canon. And he also deflected Durge's automatic fire with his hand.

Lord Lucien
Yeah, f*ck it. Jedi can and have casually deflected projectiles and laser blasts.

Slash_KMC
CloneWars logic FTW.

truejedi
CloneWarslogic for the canonicity.

bigmac2468
y not use a reel gun! Those would move a helluva lot fastar and bee very hard to sea?

Slash_KMC
y?

reel?

helluva?

fastar?

bee?

sea?

rolling on floor laughing

Jinsoku Takai
1. Bullets are apparently no faster than blaster fire.

2. Jedi do not use their sight to deflect blaster fire, and as such would probably not rely on their sight to do so against a bullet storm.

Nephthys
Are bullets really no faster than blaster fire? Movie blaster fire looks hella slow.

Darth Angel
Seems someone showed some long distance night fire (you know, the kind that travels hundreds or even more then a thousand feet before hitting the target) and thought that such shots would take the same time to reach the target at close range, this saying that close range bullet fire has the same speed as blaster fire.

AthenasTrgrFngr
oh you silly boys...

jedi cant block punches and kicks but they somehow have the reflexes and aptitude to deflect bullets moving at mach 1 with the force ermm

Lord Lucien
Yeah, Star Wars isn't exactly known for sensible continuity.

darth radon
Originally posted by mattatom
I know theres a quote somewhere saying its harder to manipulate small things because of the precision needed.

I'm going to be lazy here and list a couple of possible techniques from Wookie thumb up

Force Deflection
"Protection Bubble"
Either seem likely? yes they are cade skywalker used the bubble to save blue and him in a large exsplosion

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