Teleporters versus the Jedi....

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Rogue Jedi
The following teleporters must attempt to infiltrate the Jedi temple and kill every Jedi inside:

Nightcrawler, armed with a sword and daggers.

Weapon XI, armed with his twin adamantium swords.

John Wraith, armed with a machine gun and a pistol, also a few grenades.

Griffin (Jumper), armed with whatever he wants (He starts pt with the flamethrower, but can jump away anywhere to rearm.)

Rice Bowl (Jumper), same as Griffin.


They attack as the Jedi council is having a session. The Jedi are all the Jedi shown in Episodes 1-3.

Do the teleporters succeed, or do the Jedi maintain?

Rogue Jedi
One more thing. The teleporters have studied the layout of the Jedi temple, they know where the Jedi sleep, where they eat, where the council chamber is, yada yada yada.

And this takes place at night. The Jedi aren't sleeping, but they are winding down for the day.

Nephthys
Well this looks like a perfectly innocent thread that wasn't created with any bad blood behind it. no expression

Rogue Jedi
haermm Surprise!!

Darth Martin
The team dies horribly.

Rogue Jedi
Sure about that? With the right strategy, they have a slim chance.

Nephthys
None of them showed much any planning skills though.

Rogue Jedi
With their jumping speed, it wouldn't really matter. Especially XI. I'd love to see a Jedi trying to block a barrage of automatic gunfire.

Nephthys
Well, in Clone Wars they can. Obi-Wan does it with his hand.

the ninjak
Teleporters own.

Kurt and his team of TPers would kill all of those slow moving chumps.

Rogue Jedi
Originally posted by Nephthys
Well, in Clone Wars they can. Obi-Wan does it with his hand. This is ROTS Jedi, I would never start a thread using the CGI Jedi, their power is ridiculous.

BruceSkywalker
the jedi being Mace, Anakin, Yoda, Obi Wan and the ones that Palpatine killed before be fought Mace?

Rogue Jedi
All the Jedi shown in Ep. 1-3.

Darth Martin
The team dies horribly.

There are thousands of Jedi in the Temple; according to you all of the best too.

Jedi have pre-cog; they can freeze the teleporters dead still just as Jean Grey did Nightcrawler in X2.

Yoda, Mace, Kenobi, and Anakin are there? Come on, man.

Darth Truculent
Total spite - team Jedi. Have you studied Jedi abilities? And they are facing the Old Republic's most powerful Masters (save Anakin for he was not a Master). All the weapons you listed would fail against the Jedi to the fact of their superior (Jedi) reflexes and lightsaber. A lightsaber blade cannot be broken for it is pure energy. I'm not gonna go any further.

BruceSkywalker
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
All the Jedi shown in Ep. 1-3.

all righty. then...

Originally posted by Darth Martin
The team dies horribly.

There are thousands of Jedi in the Temple; according to you all of the best too.

Jedi have pre-cog; they can freeze the teleporters dead still just as Jean Grey did Nightcrawler in X2.

Yoda, Mace, Kenobi, and Anakin are there? Come on, man.

agreed

Rogue Jedi
Originally posted by Darth Martin
The team dies horribly.

There are thousands of Jedi in the Temple; according to you all of the best too.

Jedi have pre-cog; they can freeze the teleporters dead still just as Jean Grey did Nightcrawler in X2.

Yoda, Mace, Kenobi, and Anakin are there? Come on, man. Explain the "freeze" part.

Darth Truculent
Telekenetic Freeze, Force Shove, Force, Wave, Force Grip, etc etc. Jedi have abilities that the Teleporters do not have.

Rogue Jedi
TK freeze? Shown in the movies?

Darth Martin
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Explain the "freeze" part. I already did. Read the qoute.

Rogue Jedi
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
TK freeze? Shown in the movies?

Darth Martin
Dooku did with what Kenobi whatever he damn well pleased, including hoisting hi up in mid-air. Did Yoda not lift an X-Wing?

Rogue Jedi
That was a force hold, that's all. XI and the others can just teleport out of it.

truejedi
prove your TK'ers can telekinetic jump out of a force hold. (example from a movie please)

Rogue Jedi
Why wouldn't they be able to? The onl thing that kept Griffin and Rice from jumping was the electric harpoons, or being trapped like Griffin was in the fallen electrical tower. NC? Jean Grey kept him from TPing to her using her immense TK, nothing ever stopped Wraith. Well, except for Victor clutching his spine. nothing was ever shown stopping XI.


Prove the Jedi can hold them in place, example from a SW movie where they held a teleporter in place.

the ninjak
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Prove the Jedi can hold them in place, example from a SW movie where they held a teleporter in place.

?


Agreed on nothing a Jedi can do can stop a teleporter from TPing

Rogue Jedi
Uhhhhhhhh no they cannot.

the ninjak
What then

Rogue Jedi
Hmm?

Nephthys
Nightcrawler was unable to teleport out of Jean's hold in X2 iirc. Boom, precident.

Rogue Jedi
yeah, I already considered that. She wasn't really Jean Grey at that moment, she was more Dark Phoenix than anything else. DP's TK was on a level that a Jedi can only dream of, dude. She was TKing that big ass wave, lifting the X Jet, and keeping Nightcrawler from jumping TO her, all at the same time. You tell me, when has a Jedi performed a TK feat that comes close to that? Never.

Nothing implied that he was unable to jump at all, just TO her.

Nephthys
Actually I was talking about in the church, but thanks for backing it up thus proving TK can stop him.

Rogue Jedi
She was suspending him in midair, man, he wasn't trying to jump.

Besides, that was just NC, and again, no Jedi has TK on the level that Jean had.

truejedi
so in other words: Nightcrawler was NEVER able to make a jump when someone had a TK hold on him. Being able to do so would be unprecedented then...and is something that wasn't shown on film. Is that what you are saying?

EDIT: Regardless however you want to spin that part however, precog is going to own the jumpers. They will be doing a lot of appearing on Jedi Blades. Well, maybe not a LOT of, once each.

Rogue Jedi
NC was never able to jump when someone of Jean Grey's caliber had a TK hold on him. And it was only towards her, it was like she put up a TK wall that he could not jump to her through.

XI, Wraith, Rice and Griffin were never shown being TK held and kept from jumping, therefore it will not work on them.

the ninjak
NightCrawler could jump out of a Telekinetic hold whenever he wants.
Telepathic hold would stop him in his tracks which Jean was also capable of.
Jedi Force holds would'nt stop any of these teleporters.

dadudemon
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
yeah, I already considered that. She wasn't really Jean Grey at that moment, she was more Dark Phoenix than anything else. DP's TK was on a level that a Jedi can only dream of, dude. She was TKing that big ass wave, lifting the X Jet, and keeping Nightcrawler from jumping TO her, all at the same time. You tell me, when has a Jedi performed a TK feat that comes close to that? Never.

Nothing implied that he was unable to jump at all, just TO her.

That WAS Dark Phoenix doing that, you're correct.

No Jedi comes close to her ability in TK.


You're right.


However, she was doing all of that and preventing NC from jumping, so, yeah, that doesn't prove that it only takes a little bit of force, it only proces that that was just another drop in the HUGE bucket of DP's TK abilities.


It doesn't prove or disprove that a Jedi could not prevent a jumper from jumping: only thing it does is indicate that in another universe, a teleporter could not teleport when DP was laying the smack down. We don't even know if she was preventing that jump with her TK, BTW. It could have been another ability in her power-set.





Anywho...



I'm thinking that the Jedi have far-seeing. They'll see the attack coming, many days to months in advance, setup the temple with sentry guns that have bio-signatures for everyone that is authorized. As soon as a teleporter teleports in, they become swiss cheese. No action from the Jedi necessary.

Rogue Jedi
If I recall correctly, as NC tried to TP to her, he said, and I quote, "She's blocking me." Dunno if that helps.

Placidity
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
The following teleporters must attempt to infiltrate the Jedi temple and kill every Jedi inside:

Nightcrawler, armed with a sword and daggers.

Weapon XI, armed with his twin adamantium swords.

John Wraith, armed with a machine gun and a pistol, also a few grenades.

Griffin (Jumper), armed with whatever he wants (He starts pt with the flamethrower, but can jump away anywhere to rearm.)

Rice Bowl (Jumper), same as Griffin.


They attack as the Jedi council is having a session. The Jedi are all the Jedi shown in Episodes 1-3.

Do the teleporters succeed, or do the Jedi maintain?

Backup has arrived.

Teleporters have a damn good chance.

Most of the Jedi are pretty nooby, I mean Anakin himself took the temple by himself. I guess you could say they were also overwhelmed by Clone Troopers (there really weren't that many), but Blasters are just shit compared to modern Earth firearms. Rate of fire is waaaay faster than a blaster, for a Jedi to deflect the bullets, they would need to move their limbs fast like Matrix style, which they obviously can't. So Wraith boy ports in at mid/long range and guns them down and ports away further if they close in on him. I'd rather Wraith gave his guns to NC though since NC can TP and manuever high in mid-air, so theres no way the Jedi would reach him.

NC will just do his thing. He could probably take down most of the nooby Jedi's. He might die if he tries to take on the few elite on the council.

Griffin and Rice Bowl also become a devastating force. One of the weaknesses of Jedi are definitely flamethrowers since they can't be deflected. Simply nothing the Jedi can do to them, if some manage to run in closer, they just TP to gain more distance and continue.

I left Deadpool last cause he would just freaking own. Optic Blast anyone? Just do a quick 360 degree scan around the room and its over. And if you guys want to pretend they will all be able to deflect the blast, well Deadpool can just blast at the temple's structure and take the whole building down like Cyclops did to the school, or like how his servered head took that building down at the end.

Damn Kick-Ass is an awesome film.

Over and Out.

http://www.cheshirecatstudios.com/forum/resources/makes-no-sense-demotivational-poster-darth-vader-water/82

Rogue Jedi
Wraith would wreak havoc too, with his full auto rifle and grenades.

You don't think Wraith can TP in the air like NC?

dadudemon
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Wraith would wreak havoc too, with his full auto rifle and grenades.

You don't think Wraith can TP in the air like NC?

Nah. The Jedi fought splosions n'stuff.

Rogue Jedi
Originally posted by dadudemon
Nah. The Jedi fought splosions n'stuff. Bullets travel faster than blaster bolts, and machine guns fire way faster than auto lasers.

dadudemon
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Bullets travel faster than blaster bolts, and machine guns fire way faster than auto lasers.

I have on screen evidence that they travel many times faster than bullets.


Do you want to go there? smile

Rogue Jedi
Originally posted by dadudemon
I have on screen evidence that they travel many times faster than bullets.


Do you want to go there? smile Bring it on, G-Dawg.

Evilbigfoot
Originally posted by Placidity
Backup has arrived.

Teleporters have a damn good chance.

Most of the Jedi are pretty nooby, I mean Anakin himself took the temple by himself. I guess you could say they were also overwhelmed by Clone Troopers (there really weren't that many), but Blasters are just shit compared to modern Earth firearms.
http://www.cheshirecatstudios.com/forum/resources/makes-no-sense-demotivational-poster-darth-vader-water/82
laughing

Huh? Please, raise your hand to your face, now slap yourself. "Jedi are nooby," Idiotic statement, some jedi have become powerful enough to destroy planets, PLANETS!

dadudemon
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Bring it on, G-Dawg.

Clone wars battle in Ep 2. As the camera pans out, in several scenes, we see blaster bolts travel multiple kilometers a second.


Watch it, measure it, love it, like it.


High end "feats", blaster bolts are many times faster than bullets. Low end feats, they bounce around at 80Km/h

dadudemon
Originally posted by Evilbigfoot
laughing

Huh? Please, raise your hand to your face, now slap yourself. "Jedi are nooby," Idiotic statement, some jedi have become powerful enough to destroy planets, PLANETS!

Nah. I'll reach up and smack your forehead, for you: he was talking about padawans and younglings: not the council. He even says that some would drop to the council.

Rogue Jedi
Originally posted by Evilbigfoot
laughing

Huh? Please, raise your hand to your face, now slap yourself. "Jedi are nooby," Idiotic statement, some jedi have become powerful enough to destroy planets, PLANETS! http://www.hookedonphonics.com/

Rogue Jedi
Originally posted by dadudemon
Clone wars battle in Ep 2. As the camera pans out, in several scenes, we see blaster bolts travel multiple kilometers a second.


Watch it, measure it, love it, like it.


High end "feats", blaster bolts are many times faster than bullets. Low end feats, they bounce around at 80Km/h Uh, this is where you post a youtube clip.

Darth Truculent
You are talking about the Jedi Council - the most powerful Jedi in the friggen galaxy. Do you actually think a Jedi would stand still and say "kill me. kill me?" Nothing can teleport out of a Force grip. What if Yoda or Mace slammed one of them with a Force Wave? Without a Force shield, that'll shatter a spine. Study SW more.

Rogue Jedi
Prove that nothing can teleport out of a force grip. I a openly challenging you to prove it with SCREEN FEATS.

truejedi
Originally posted by Placidity


Griffin and Rice Bowl also become a devastating force. One of the weaknesses of Jedi are definitely flamethrowers since they can't be deflected. Simply nothing the Jedi can do to them, if some manage to run in closer, they just TP to gain more distance and continue.


erm... pull out of their hands? Happy Dance

Rogue Jedi
There is the issue of whether or not a Jedi can force block fire.

Placidity
What the hell is this mass invasion of SW fanboys?

Either stick to the SW film feats, or get the hell out. No Jedi in the film, has ever destroyed a planet. No Jedi has ever used force grip. And the other random "force X" powers mentioned don't mean crap in this forum.

Rogue Jedi
haermm

truejedi
Luke Skywalker uses force grip. In a movie.

Be mindful, your smugness betrays you.

truejedi
oh, and RJ, its not a matter of blocking the fire, its a matter of pulling the flamethrower out of their hands.

or use a mind-trick and make them stop fighting before killing them, or as shown in X-men, origins, use precog to predict where they will be and kill them that way.

Rogue Jedi
Originally posted by truejedi
oh, and RJ, its not a matter of blocking the fire, its a matter of pulling the flamethrower out of their hands.

or use a mind-trick and make them stop fighting before killing them, or as shown in X-men, origins, use precog to predict where they will be and kill them that way. The flamethrower is a backpack, strapped to their back. Fail.

They aren't weak minded idiots either.

Precog is imperfect at best, don't go there.

Rogue Jedi
Originally posted by Placidity




I left Deadpool last cause he would just freaking own. Optic Blast anyone? Just do a quick 360 degree scan around the room and its over. And if you guys want to pretend they will all be able to deflect the blast, well Deadpool can just blast at the temple's structure and take the whole building down like Cyclops did to the school, or like how his servered head took that building down at the end.

Hell yeah. Didn't even think of that.

Placidity
Originally posted by truejedi
Luke Skywalker uses force grip. In a movie.

Be mindful, your smugness betrays you.

Lol. Smug is telling people to slap themselves and "study SW more" and a dancing banana.

Oh, and um, Luke Skywalker isn't part of this fight. Oh snap.

Originally posted by truejedi
oh, and RJ, its not a matter of blocking the fire, its a matter of pulling the flamethrower out of their hands.

or use a mind-trick and make them stop fighting before killing them, or as shown in X-men, origins, use precog to predict where they will be and kill them that way.

What RJ said. And as per OP, they can port away and grab more weapons anyway.

Edit: Also, Flamethrower range > Force pull range

Rogue Jedi
Teleporting= Coolest power ever.

truejedi
Originally posted by Placidity
No Jedi has ever used force grip..

I believe this is what you said. Whether or not Luke is a part of this fight, you were incorrect.



RJ:

What do you mean Precog is imperfect? That's fine and dandy for you to say the most effective way of dealing with Teleporters is "imperfect" and leaving it at that, but if that is your way of avoiding it, a simple guess killed this guy dead:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v64pll9BtjA


And predicting his next move got Deadpool stabbed at 3:50
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r74xSPZH8R4&feature=related

Without Regeneration, that would have been enough to kill him.


Though I agree about teleportation.
I agree. If I had one power, that would be it, even before using the force.

Rogue Jedi
Originally posted by truejedi
I believe this is what you said. Whether or not Luke is a part of this fight, you were incorrect.



RJ:

What do you mean Precog is imperfect? That's fine and dandy for you to say the most effective way of dealing with Teleporters is "imperfect" and leaving it at that, but if that is your way of avoiding it, a simple guess killed this guy dead:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v64pll9BtjA


And predicting his next move got Deadpool stabbed at 3:50
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r74xSPZH8R4&feature=related

Without Regeneration, that would have been enough to kill him.


Though I agree about teleportation.
I agree. If I had one power, that would be it, even before using the force. Shall I list the instances in the six SW movies where precog failed miserably?

truejedi
If you like. Then, of course, you will prove the Jedi at the time were USING said precog. (Naturally, you wouldn't want to put one without the other, would you?)

Though I'm surprised you aren't just taking the attitude: Nobody actually mentions precog in the movies, so you can't prove it even exists route, which would be annoying, but effective in this rather limited forum you have here.

Also: Are you literally always online? I looked at your post count, and it was pretty amazing for someone who joined not that long before I did.

Rogue Jedi

Doctor-Alvis
I honestly don't think the teleporters have much of a chance unless they do things like teleport massive blocks of material into the temple so people are fatally fused with it. Or do like Griffin and teleport vehicles into the temple.

Also, I think Jean Grey stopping Nightcrawler was more attributed to either her telepathy disabling his ability to use his powers or having the telekinetic power to prevent his portal from opening, not just levitating him.

Rogue Jedi
Storm knocked him from his perch. Jean caught him with TK. That's all there was to it. At no time did she "prevent him from TPing."

Placidity
Originally posted by truejedi
I believe this is what you said. Whether or not Luke is a part of this fight, you were incorrect.


You're right here (I just didn't word what I meant properly, but w/e), but my point stands, and your original arguments have been destroyed.

dadudemon
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Uh, this is where you post a youtube clip.

You own the movies. erm


You can also look up the youtube vid, yourself. facepalm


You do know that "we've" had this conversation already (with Jaden), right?

dadudemon
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Prove that nothing can teleport out of a force grip. I a openly challenging you to prove it with SCREEN FEATS.

Prove that they can teleport out of a force grip. I openly challenge you to prove it with SCREEN FEATS. laughing


That's a slippery slope and those arguments suck. Avoid those.

the ninjak
Originally posted by dadudemon
Prove that they can teleport out of a force grip. I openly challenge you to prove it with SCREEN FEATS. laughing


That's a slippery slope and those arguments suck. Avoid those.
thumb up
We don't need screen feats it's just logic.

Teleporters just think and they disappear.

Telekinesis holding or squeezing a part or all of your body won't change this.

Rogue Jedi
Indeed.

dadudemon
Originally posted by the ninjak
Telekinesis holding or squeezing a part or all of your body won't change this.

Maybe...but how do you know?



We do know that when a Wizard is "knocked back" with a spell or a physical object, they don't "teleport" until they are done flying or at least gain control of their flight.

We don't know what mechanism affected NC, but we do know that Phoenix was applying lots of TK. Could be that TK prevents teleporting.



We don't know for sure how TK affects teleporting very well. We can only go with what the thread starter wants. We have slight evidence that TK COULD affect teleporting.

Rogue Jedi
Originally posted by dadudemon
Maybe...but how do you know?



We do know that when a Wizard is "knocked back" with a spell or a physical object, they don't "teleport" until they are done flying or at least gain control of their flight. When did this happen in the HP movies?

"She's blocking me"....Means she was preventing him from TPing TP her, that's all.

dadudemon
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
When did this happen in the HP movies?

You need to prove that the Wizards can apparate when being knocked back, not the other way around. I'm claiming that anytime a wizard is knocked back, spell or physical force, they don't apparate or cast a spell until they regain their control or get up.


Prove that I'm wrong but citing an example that contradicts that. Until then, I cite every single fight that that happens in.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
"She's blocking me"....Means she was preventing him from TPing TP her, that's all.

"She's blocking me..." could also mean that she was using TK to...you know..."block" him. erm

the ninjak
Originally posted by dadudemon
"She's blocking me..." could also mean that she was using TK to...you know..."block" him. erm

Jean was a powerful telepath.

Telepathy can stop a Teleporter from TPing because she assualted NC's mind.

A similar thing happened in Xmen issue 3 when a man known as the Vanisher was stopped by Xavier stopping his mind from being able to TP.

Jean just mentally stopped Kurt from TPing while holding him Telekinetically.

Basic comic book philosophy.

TK affects the physical.
Telepathy the mind.

Think it through my friend. smile

dadudemon
Originally posted by the ninjak
Jean just mentally stopped Kurt from TPing while holding him Telekinetically.


I agree and disagree. There's no way to know that, for sure. She might have, or she might not have. If you read in the thread, or in another thread (they are starting to blur together), I explored all of these points already.

Rogue Jedi
Originally posted by dadudemon
You need to prove that the Wizards can apparate when being knocked back, not the other way around. I'm claiming that anytime a wizard is knocked back, spell or physical force, they don't apparate or cast a spell until they regain their control or get up.


Prove that I'm wrong but citing an example that contradicts that. Until then, I cite every single fight that that happens in.



"She's blocking me..." could also mean that she was using TK to...you know..."block" him. erm No, you made the claim that wizards cannot apparate while being TK'd, you need to prove it, that's how ti works. None of this "just cuz" shit.


Blocking, like blocking a linebacker from getting to the QB. NC coulda still TP'd to the bathroom.

Rogue Jedi
Apparating is a magical form of teleporting.


http://harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/Apparition


Apparition is a magical method of transportation, and is basically magical teleportation, having the user focus on a desired location in their mind, then disappear from their current location and instantly reappear at their desired location.

They think it, then they apparate. Why would they not be able to think while in motion (being knocked back, free falling, etc)?

I can name several instances in movies where a teleporter was in a free fall (which is the same as being knocked back, except they are moving downwards instead of backwards) and they TP'd out of it.

What do you think half apparating is? It's apparating over and over and over whilst in motion.

A wizard thinks where they wanna go, and they apparate there. Nothing stops them. The only thing that stops apparition is an anti-apparition charm, end of discussion.

truejedi
Originally posted by Placidity
You're right here (I just didn't word what I meant properly, but w/e), but my point stands, and your original arguments have been destroyed.

Not at all in fact. The Jedi are going to use their pre-cog to win this fight. That or these TP'ers can't escape a force hold.

Since it is RJ's thread, and he says they can escape it, I guess they can, though he should have addressed that in the OP.

There have been no examples given from a single movie of anyone ever teleporting out of a force grip.

It is RJ's opinion that Jean was controlling his mind, it is my opinion that she was controlling his body.

Pure speculation. troublesome.

You should reconsider this forum a bit I think. If you could read say, an Xmen novel, and count it as evidence, you could settle that part of the argument. Instead, in this forum, EVERYTHING you see onscreen can be interpreted in multiple ways. For instance, some might say Yoda was crushing Dooku, others might say Dooku and Yoda fought a pretty good duel (with just the film). The novels make it clear that Dooku was fighting for his life, and never had a chance to beat Yoda. Without them, a thread on that fight becomes one great big NO U argument, since 2 people don't agree on what they saw.

I've noticed almost every thread I've seen on this forum so far has been that way. No way to win them, and everyone just keeps repeating themselves, because no one has really been proven wrong, they have just been presented with a different opinion of what is most important onscreen.

Rogue Jedi
My opinion because it's my thread? The only authority I hold here is setting the conditions.

It's my opinion that Jean was blocking NC from jumping TO HIM, NOT from teleporting in general.

Fact? No force user, not one, ever displayed TK that is half of what Jean Grey displayed.

No, a force hold/grip/whatever does NOT keep people from teleporting.

Placidity
Originally posted by truejedi
Not at all in fact. The Jedi are going to use their pre-cog to win this fight. That or these TP'ers can't escape a force hold.


Force grip is out as you said. So that leaves pre-cog, and that ain't really gonna help that much since most of them will attack from long range, and they also aren't fast enough to deflect bullets.

Originally posted by truejedi
There have been no examples given from a single movie of anyone ever teleporting out of a force grip.

It is RJ's opinion that Jean was controlling his mind, it is my opinion that she was controlling his body.

Pure speculation. troublesome.


Point one was pointless.

Point two and point three holds, but as you said, it's RJ's thread, he sets the conditions (as long as they don't contradict the facts).

I'm personally not sure if it was TP or TK, but RJ did raise a good point when NC mentions "blocking" him. If anything I'd lean towards TP because of that. Also, DP's TK =/= force grip, nor does Jedi in this topic use force grip, which I've already mentioned, so I don't know why this is being repeated.

Originally posted by truejedi
You should reconsider this forum a bit I think. If you could read say, an Xmen novel, and count it as evidence, you could settle that part of the argument. Instead, in this forum, EVERYTHING you see onscreen can be interpreted in multiple ways. For instance, some might say Yoda was crushing Dooku, others might say Dooku and Yoda fought a pretty good duel (with just the film). The novels make it clear that Dooku was fighting for his life, and never had a chance to beat Yoda. Without them, a thread on that fight becomes one great big NO U argument, since 2 people don't agree on what they saw.


Using other material will pose its own problems as well. Can be frustrating sometimes, but its probably for the best.

As for Yoda vs Dooku, its kinda clear for me. Going by the film, Dooku wasn't going to win. Yoda was on the attax and Dooku kept backing off. Also, the fact that Dooku distracted Yoda to escape shows he knew he wasn't going to win. I don't think he was fighting for his life though, even Yoda said he fought well and he couldn't get past his defenses. Probably if they fought longer, Dooku would've eventually lost, but it wasn't like Yoda was whooping his ass during the fight.

On a side note, Dooku should've slashed Yoda while he was occupied with the fallen thingo. A saber throw would've worked too. Or even force lightning. I'm sure the SW fanboys will make up some complex excuse (this always happens, they never admit parts of the movie doesn't make sense, or that Dooku could've done those things).

Originally posted by truejedi

No way to win them, and everyone just keeps repeating themselves, because no one has really been proven wrong, they have just been presented with a different opinion of what is most important onscreen.

Trust me, on this forum, this will happen regardless lol.

dadudemon
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
No, you made the claim that wizards cannot apparate while being TK'd, you need to prove it, that's how ti works. None of this "just cuz" shit.

I've already proved it: every single scene wizards are dueling. Every last one. Take you pick. no expression

It's a fact. You already know it is. We've talked about this already.


It is up to you to find just one scene where any Wizard apparates out of being knocked back from a spell or physical force. Prove. it.

If you can't, then the point stands that any amount of significant TK, which a padawan an exert, prevents them from apparating in any thread you choose to do jedi vs. HP-verse, in.


Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Apparating is a magical form of teleporting.


http://harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/Apparition


Apparition is a magical method of transportation, and is basically magical teleportation, having the user focus on a desired location in their mind, then disappear from their current location and instantly reappear at their desired location.

They think it, then they apparate. Why would they not be able to think while in motion (being knocked back, free falling, etc)?

I can name several instances in movies where a teleporter was in a free fall (which is the same as being knocked back, except they are moving downwards instead of backwards) and they TP'd out of it.

What do you think half apparating is? It's apparating over and over and over whilst in motion.

A wizard thinks where they wanna go, and they apparate there. Nothing stops them. The only thing that stops apparition is an anti-apparition charm, end of discussion.

No matter what counters you come up with, it's just a fact that the magical users don't apparate out of a knock back. That's it. erm


Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Blocking, like blocking a linebacker from getting to the QB. NC coulda still TP'd to the bathroom.


Blocking could be anything, in that scene. Anything. We don't know. Best guess is TK as that was the force she was using at the time and most associated with.


Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
My opinion because it's my thread? The only authority I hold here is setting the conditions.

It's my opinion that Jean was blocking NC from jumping TO HIM, NOT from teleporting in general.

Fact? No force user, not one, ever displayed TK that is half of what Jean Grey displayed.

No, a force hold/grip/whatever does NOT keep people from teleporting.

LIES!

Galen Marek. awesome



Jean Doesn't even come close to showing TK on that level. 313

Placidity
Originally posted by dadudemon
LIES!

Galen Marek. awesome



Jean Doesn't even come close to showing TK on that level. 313

awesome Indeed.

Dark Phoenix would rape him though, and he'd love it.

Darth Truculent
RJ - sorry I haven't been on, but here's your answer. Vader strangling the life out of the admiral in ESB from quite a long distance. When you're getting choked, it's kinda hard to move isn't it? Luke did the same in RoTJ in Jabba's Palace. When you're stuck in a Force-grip or Choke, you CAN'T move! Does that satisfy you? Obi-Wan in RoTS was thrown and kicked by Dooku in a Force-grip.

Or do you need the fact that in novelization, Galen Marek was throwing Vader around with a Force-grip? Your rebutall or do you even HAVE one?

Rogue Jedi
Originally posted by Darth Truculent
RJ - sorry I haven't been on, but here's your answer. Vader strangling the life out of the admiral in ESB from quite a long distance. When you're getting choked, it's kinda hard to move isn't it? Luke did the same in RoTJ in Jabba's Palace. When you're stuck in a Force-grip or Choke, you CAN'T move! Does that satisfy you? Obi-Wan in RoTS was thrown and kicked by Dooku in a Force-grip.

Or do you need the fact that in novelization, Galen Marek was throwing Vader around with a Force-grip? Your rebutall or do you even HAVE one?

Vader knew exactly where Ozzel was. If Ozzel was a teleporter, he could have teleported away. Also, the Gamorreans moved when Luke had them in force choke. They stumbled back several steps then fell. Pwned.

When one is stuck in a force grip, suspended in midair as Obi Wan was, yeah, they cannot move physically (forward. back, side to side), but teleporting is not exactly like taking a step this way or that. When one teleports, they are literally disappearing then reappearing somewhere else.

Galen is EU bullshit, movies only here.

Rogue Jedi
Originally posted by dadudemon
I've already proved it: every single scene wizards are dueling. Every last one. Take you pick. no expression

It's a fact. You already know it is. We've talked about this already.


It is up to you to find just one scene where any Wizard apparates out of being knocked back from a spell or physical force. Prove. it.

If you can't, then the point stands that any amount of significant TK, which a padawan an exert, prevents them from apparating in any thread you choose to do jedi vs. HP-verse, in.




No matter what counters you come up with, it's just a fact that the magical users don't apparate out of a knock back. That's it. erm





Blocking could be anything, in that scene. Anything. We don't know. Best guess is TK as that was the force she was using at the time and most associated with.



YOU made the claim that teleporters/apparaters cannot TP when knocked back, up to you to prove it.

OK, if that's your line of reasoning, the following are true: Jedi cannot eat spaghetti. Wookkies have no penises. Luke cannot fight with a red lightsaber. Why? Because they are never SHOWN doing so.

HA wink
And no, we didnt "talk" about it, you have "proven" nothing.



To end this bullshit "teleporters cannot teleport when knocked back", have you seen Jumper? The scene where Rice and Griffin are fighting over the detonator? Griffin jumps a truck at Rice (when Rice is in the Arctic). The truck hits Rice, then what does Rice do as he is being knocked back into the ocean?

Say it....say my name..........TELEPORT.

dadudemon
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
YOU made the claim that teleporters/apparaters cannot TP when knocked back, up to you to prove it.

I just did. I cite every single duel that ever occurred.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
OK, if that's your line of reasoning, the following are true: Jedi cannot eat spaghetti. Wookkies have no penises. Luke cannot fight with a red lightsaber. Why? Because they are never SHOWN doing so.

HA wink
And no, we didnt "talk" about it, you have "proven" nothing.

By the golden rules, you are correct. Logically, you are not. Logically, I am. The fact that you have yet to find a single instance of a Magical user apparating, while, reeling, after an attack like I've described, more than prove my point. It's a fact of both the books and the movies: while they are getting their shit beat down, they don't apparate. They have to regain their "equilibrium/balance" or whatever, before they continue.

I can think of about 4 example right off the top of my head but I will not give you the satisfaction of telling you.


You already know what I'm talking about as you argued the point with me, in detail, already. Why would you deny something like that? That's not cool, dude.



Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
To end this bullshit "teleporters cannot teleport when knocked back", have you seen Jumper? The scene where Rice and Griffin are fighting over the detonator? Griffin jumps a truck at Rice (when Rice is in the Arctic). The truck hits Rice, then what does Rice do as he is being knocked back into the ocean?

Say it....say my name..........TELEPORT.

Whew, luckily, we weren't talking about Jumpers. no expression

dadudemon
Originally posted by Placidity
awesome Indeed.

Dark Phoenix would rape him though, and he'd love it.

Well, since I'm using a non-usable Movie Versus thread character, that's only fair.


However, movie version of Phoenix didn't even come close to the mass that Galen moved. 313 That Star Destroyer was quite huge.

Rogue Jedi
Originally posted by dadudemon
I just did. I cite every single duel that ever occurred.



By the golden rules, you are correct. Logically, you are not. Logically, I am. The fact that you have yet to find a single instance of a Magical user apparating, while, reeling, after an attack like I've described, more than prove my point. It's a fact of both the books and the movies: while they are getting their shit beat down, they don't apparate. They have to regain their "equilibrium/balance" or whatever, before they continue.

I can think of about 4 example right off the top of my head but I will not give you the satisfaction of telling you.


You already know what I'm talking about as you argued the point with me, in detail, already. Why would you deny something like that? That's not cool, dude.





Whew, luckily, we weren't talking about Jumpers. no expression


Follow the bouncing ball, dude, going somewhere with this.

Lookie, at 2:50. Rice is KNOCKED back by a damn truck, and he teleports away while being knocked back.

k2ty9Tp8Now


Also, Griffin can jump anything that is in motion, a bus, a truck, a car, anything.

Also, David, in the end, jumped an entire section of his GF's apartment.

But hey, being knocked backwards will stop them from teleporting, yeah?

haermm Nah.

Now, we have established that apparating is a magical form of teleporting. It is basically the same. Why then would apparaters NOT be able to apparate when knocked back? You are making a claim about apparaters, one that is never implied nor said in any of the HP movies. You have to provide proof of it.

Apparaters think where they want to go, then they apparate there. All that is required is that they think it. Why, when being knocked backwards, would they not be able to think a desired location?


Why are we even discussing this here? No wizards are invloved here. And dude, don't say "Jumpers and the X Men TPers are different!!!!"

Teleporting is teleporting, they are pretty much equal in power. The Jumpers are stronger in the sense that they can jump anywhere in the world. The X Men TPers showed better FOOM FOOM FOOM jumping, like the white house scene with NC. But in the end, they are all on par with each other in raw power.

Rogue Jedi
Originally posted by dadudemon


You already know what I'm talking about as you argued the point with me, in detail, already. Why would you deny something like that? That's not cool, dude.




You gotta be more specific, I honestly dont remember.

dadudemon
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
You gotta be more specific, I honestly dont remember.

Indeed. Trying to remember a lame conversation you had with a homie would be difficult to remember when you are decking the Halls of the bowels of holly. 313



That's an inside joke that I hope you get. pained

Rogue Jedi
Originally posted by dadudemon
Indeed. Trying to remember a lame conversation you had with a homie would be difficult to remember when you are decking the Halls of the bowels of holly. 313



That's an inside joke that I hope you get. pained

Priorities.


Answer me this: Jumpers (Rice and Griffin) and Teleporters (Wraith, XI, and NC). Who is superior, as far as teleporting goes? And why?

dadudemon
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Priorities.


Answer me this: Jumpers (Rice and Griffin) and Teleporters (Wraith, XI, and NC). Who is superior, as far as teleporting goes? And why?

NC has better 3D space awareness than everyone else except for XI. All in all, I'd say that Wraith, XI, and NC are all better than the Jumpers. The only time we get to see some very rapid jumping is when Griffin was doing that uber punch against Samuel L. Mother ****in' Jackson.

Rogue Jedi
Originally posted by dadudemon
NC has better 3D space awareness than everyone else except for XI. All in all, I'd say that Wraith, XI, and NC are all better than the Jumpers. The only time we get to see some very rapid jumping is when Griffin was doing that uber punch against Samuel L. Mother ****in' Jackson. OK. I agree to an extent. I say the Jumpers are superior due to their range, Griffins ability to jump a bus, and David's ability to jump a damn apartment.

But close quarters TPing, yeah, the TPers are better.

Now...A teleporter TPing while being knocked back would fall under close quarters combat. If the Jumpers can do it, then the TPers can do it.

Bong.

dadudemon
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
OK. I agree to an extent. I say the Jumpers are superior due to their range, Griffins ability to jump a bus, and David's ability to jump a damn apartment.

But close quarters TPing, yeah, the TPers are better.

Now...A teleporter TPing while being knocked back would fall under close quarters combat. If the Jumpers can do it, then the TPers can do it.

Bong.

That's right. The Jumpers have superior range and "mass" jumping abilities. Griffin jumped that whole bus/car/etc.

As far as a fight, though, the other three are better in 3D space...hard to explain what I mean.

Doctor-Alvis
You mean incorporating teleporting into their hand to hand technique?

Rogue Jedi
Originally posted by dadudemon
That's right. The Jumpers have superior range and "mass" jumping abilities. Griffin jumped that whole bus/car/etc.

As far as a fight, though, the other three are better in 3D space...hard to explain what I mean. And all can jump/TP when knocked back, or when in a force choke.

Thanks for playing.

Doctor-Alvis
I think he means combat teleporting. Like, if you watch Nightcrawler's White House scene or Weapon XI fight Wolverine and Sabretooth you can see they teleport in and out mid attack and using their teleporting to hit at weird angles. There's also a neat part where Nightcrawler is flipping towards a secret service agent and as he's landing he teleports onto the wall and pushes off it onto the agent.

The Jumpers did some amazing things but I don't remember them using their jumping to do that kind of thing.

Rogue Jedi
They can, they just never do.

Placidity
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
They can, they just never do.

No they can't.

NC can do it because of his anatomy and enhanced agility.

Deadpool can do it, but not to the same degree because of his enhanced human stats and ninja fighting abilities.

The Jumpers and Wraith are just normal humans with teleportation (with no combat training mind you).

Edit: I shouldn't say they 'can't' because it would mean its an impossibility for them. Rather I should say with their current training and experience, they cannot do it effectively. And even with training, they would not be able to reach NC's level.

Placidity
Originally posted by dadudemon

However, movie version of Phoenix didn't even come close to the mass that Galen moved. 313 That Star Destroyer was quite huge.

I'm pretty sure the ship was coming down anyway, he just directed its direction.

Size doesn't always mean everything. DP in the film ripped people (lots of them at the same time) apart at the molecular level effortlessly, how would you compare that?

I'd say we haven't even seen her high end feats since at no point does she ever show like she is straining to do anything, except when Xavier attempted to mind-rape her.

dadudemon
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
And all can jump/TP when knocked back, or when in a force choke.

Thanks for playing.

Prove it. smile

dadudemon
Originally posted by Placidity
I'm pretty sure the ship was coming down anyway, he just directed its direction.

Size doesn't always mean everything. DP in the film ripped people (lots of them at the same time) apart at the molecular level effortlessly, how would you compare that?

I'd say we haven't even seen her high end feats since at no point does she ever show like she is straining to do anything, except when Xavier attempted to mind-rape her.

The scale/mass of that Star Destroyer was literally hundreds of times greater than anything Phoenix did.

Also, it was trying to escape Galen Marek, with Thrusters, it wasn't already coming down. That would put it at an even greater force.



Also, Phoenix seemed to struggle with the lake, NC, and the X-Jet. The mass, while quite huge, was not on scale with a Star Destroyer trying to use thrusters to escape Galen Marek.



Futile discussion because it is an EU character. sad

Placidity
Originally posted by dadudemon
The scale/mass of that Star Destroyer was literally hundreds of times greater than anything Phoenix did.

Also, it was trying to escape Galen Marek, with Thrusters, it wasn't already coming down. That would put it at an even greater force.



Also, Phoenix seemed to struggle with the lake, NC, and the X-Jet. The mass, while quite huge, was not on scale with a Star Destroyer trying to use thrusters to escape Galen Marek.



Futile discussion because it is an EU character. sad

Okay, you are right, I was thinking about the first instance in which he took down a Star Destroyer. The second time, the ship wasn't coming down. But it took him a really long time and great effort to do it, so I would say he was approaching his limit.

I don't think you read my previous post. Size isn't the definitive measure of TK power. TK power is more accurately measured by being to overcome forces. For Galen, that would be the thrusters like you said (although to me it doesn't look like the thrusters were used to escape, the ship was still facing Galen). DP ripped molecules apart instantly and effortlessly. She could pretty much literally destroy every thing around her without effort. Galen can't do that.

Also in the alternative scenes she was shown to transmute matter, meaning she can over come nuclear forces and rearrange matter at the subatomic level. Only the most powerful TK users can do that, i.e DP, Dr Manhattan. As far as I can tell its the ultimate level of TK - to be able to rearrange matter as you see fit. If DP was in the same position as Galen, she'd just rip the ship up at the molecular level, she has proven she can do this effortlessly. What is unknown, is how quickly she'd be able to do it to something that big. That would be pure speculation. But she certainly wouldn't do any worse than Galen.

Struggling at the lake and X-jet was Jean Grey. DP was surfacing, but it was not DP yet. At the start of X3, DP pretty much lifted up the mass of water of the whole lake. When Wolvie and Storm arrived there was no water left. She also lifted the whole Alcatraz prison along with large masses of water around the island. She does all of these feats pretty casually.

Lets just say if Movie DP fought with Galen, he'd die instantly.

Digi
Lulz at 6 pages for this. Jedi in a stomp, even ignoring feats outside the movies (which makes it a bigger stomp).

Placidity
Originally posted by Digi
Lulz at 6 pages for this. Jedi in a stomp, even ignoring feats outside the movies (which makes it a bigger stomp).

Whats a Jedi going to do when being shot at by an assault rifle at long range?

dadudemon
ZDD7Ohs5tAk

Darth Truculent
This kinda reminds me of "I dream Genie." If Jean fought someone of Yoda's or Anakin's power, much Galen, she'd lose. Let's take Galen, Galen defeated Vader who was much stronger than him in the Force. Although Vader was in the body armor, Galen was the superior and kicked his ass. About the shot at long range, a Master can stop it in it's tracks. Danger sense is one of the abilities that a Jedi wields. Jorus C'Boath stopped a missile fired by a terrorist in Outbound Flight with TK alone.

Placidity
Originally posted by Darth Truculent
This kinda reminds me of "I dream Genie." If Jean fought someone of Yoda's or Anakin's power, much Galen, she'd lose. Let's take Galen, Galen defeated Vader who was much stronger than him in the Force. Although Vader was in the body armor, Galen was the superior and kicked his ass.

Um, the Jean talk between me and DDM was just a side discussion. And we were talking about Dark Phoenix, who would disintegrate the whole Jedi Council, Vader, Galen, and whoever you want, instantly.

Originally posted by Darth Truculent
About the shot at long range, a Master can stop it in it's tracks. Danger sense is one of the abilities that a Jedi wields. Jorus C'Boath stopped a missile fired by a terrorist in Outbound Flight with TK alone.

Um no. I think you still don't get it. You must unlearn everything you know about SW. Only film feats are allowed here. If you want to discuss a topic but with all this other stuff you are using to debate, then do so in the SW section.

Rogue Jedi
Forum rules, people.

Rogue Jedi
Originally posted by dadudemon
Prove it. smile I already did.

Rogue Jedi
Originally posted by Placidity
No they can't.

NC can do it because of his anatomy and enhanced agility.

Deadpool can do it, but not to the same degree because of his enhanced human stats and ninja fighting abilities.

The Jumpers and Wraith are just normal humans with teleportation (with no combat training mind you).

Edit: I shouldn't say they 'can't' because it would mean its an impossibility for them. Rather I should say with their current training and experience, they cannot do it effectively. And even with training, they would not be able to reach NC's level. Never mind, I thought you were backing DDM's "teleporters/jumpers/apparaters cannot TP/jump/apparate while being knocked back" argument.

Rogue Jedi
Originally posted by dadudemon
Prove it. smile

The vid from Jumper shows that David and Griffin can jump while being knocked back.

NC and XI not being able to TP while being knocked back? lulz infinity at that.

Wraith? Can't "prove" it with him, but the only thing that was shown onscreen keeping him from teleporting was Victor gripping his spine.

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