Thor Vs. Firelord and Air-Walker

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DarthDaniel1001
Setting: Asgard

State of the story:It's another day in Asgard when Firelord comes crashing down into the rainbow bridge. He has only 3 words for Heimdall: Galactus is coming. The Asgardians rally themselves as Galactus and his new herald, Air-Walker, come to Asgard. Thor and Balder go to disable the device that Galactus will use to convert Asgard into energy that he can consume. Meanwhile, Firelord, along with Lady Sif and Tyr take on some of Galactus's robots before confronting Air-Walker himself. He knows he can't beat all three of them by himself. Fortuanately, he dosen't have to. He turns.

"Now Firelord."

Firelord, without hesitation, proceeds to jam his fire-staff into Sif's back. Tyr realizes the betrayal too late and Air-Walker blasts him down. Thor sees all of this from afar and goes berserk. He flies at Firelord in a complete rage, and Firelord and Air-Walker fly at him.

Who wins?

dmills
Although I'm not as well versed as some regarding Thor history, I believe that he has beaten each of them in single combat. Both at the same time may be too much though.

TheLordofMurder
Given the betrayal and the fact that Asgard itself is in real danger of being destroyed, I think Thor goes all out...

Activates Warriors Madness and pulls out one of his big guns (the Anti-Force) and beats the living hell out of both of them; at which time neither of them is standing up to Thors x10 hammer strikes or their own energies multiplied by 10 and hurled right back at them...


....

When he is hellbent, I think Thor can definitely enter the low end of the trans tier...

dmills
I can agree with some of that. But I can't see him going WM. I mean there's been a few times on panel where he either witnessed or was about to witness the destruction of Asgard and he didn't go WM.

amnesia
Firelord and air-walker is too much IMO

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by dmills
I can agree with some of that. But I can't see him going WM. I mean there's been a few times on panel where he either witnessed or was about to witness the destruction of Asgard and he didn't go WM.

While thats true, I think the betrayal pushes him over the top...

And Firelord strikes down Sif (before his very eyes); big no-no as pertains Thors level of aggression...

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by amnesia
Firelord and air-walker is too much IMO

In Blood and Thunder, Thor did take out Surfer and Warlock at the same time...

So this isnt inconcievable nor improbable IMHO...

dmills
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
In Blood and Thunder, Thor did take out Surfer and Warlock at the same time...

So this isnt inconcievable nor improbable IMHO... Yeah there is that. He was operating above High Herald levels in b&t that's for sure. Then there's the Sif factor.

Hmmm...

Bentley
Team more often than not. They have a good powerset to beat Thor even if he has enough gun to deal with them.

the Darkone
Thor is not to be underestimated, especially with Asgard and sif in danger. Firelord and Airwalker will feel the full force of Thor's hammer!

guy222
team

SuperiorTech
team

Black bolt z
Originally posted by amnesia
Firelord and air-walker is too much IMO

Rage.Of.Olympus
FireLord just killed Sif? Hahaha they get their shit pushed in so f*cking hard. Thor one shot kills Air Walker and proceeds to pummel FireLord.

FireLord needs a revamp or something. He hasn't impressed me in a some time. Back in the day, he did really well against Thor. Even matched Mjolnir's energy output (Generic energy at least) but his stock has dropped in my opinion. I recall him seeming a bit, underpowered during Annihilation. I think FireLord and Thor had about 3 fights. He did well in all three. But the last two had a controlled FireLord fighting a Thor who considered him a friend. I do remember thinking Thor clearly looked the stronger of the two in their original fight however.

Stoic
Firelord's a punk, and Gabriel is too, Thor would wreck them. Spidey put Firelord down, Hercules broke his jaw... he's a pansy . Imagine Thor going all out? No contest, team loses.

Cubey
^ You did not just bring up Spider Man vs Firelord...

Black bolt z
Team easily.Firelord alone can hang with surfer.Add AW is just overkill.

DarthDaniel1001
Originally posted by Cubey
^ You did not just bring up Spider Man vs Firelord...

It's not a completely BS win, actually. Yes, Firelord could have easily one-shotted Spider-Man, and he made note of it, but he decided that it wouldn't be the honorable thing to do. So he took him on hand-to-hand and Spidey won. There is a little PIS, but it's not as bad as you think.

Stoic
Originally posted by Cubey
^ You did not just bring up Spider Man vs Firelord...

I sure did...lol! It happened and i was convinced that if Spidey fought Firelord again and went ape-shyt on him, that the same thing would happen.

Stoic
Originally posted by Black bolt z
Team easily.Firelord alone can hang with surfer.Add AW is just overkill.

Surfer would choke the mess out of Firelord. He can't hang with him at all.

Black bolt z
Originally posted by Stoic
Surfer would choke the mess out of Firelord. He can't hang with him at all. Too bad he has in the past.Now given he has been upgraded since then but he still probably could.

Stoic
Originally posted by Black bolt z
Too bad he has in the past.Now given he has been upgraded since then but he still probably could.


Surfer holds back, if he got pissed at Firelord the battle would last about as long as it took me to type this, to you.

Cubey
Originally posted by DarthDaniel1001
It's not a completely BS win, actually. Yes, Firelord could have easily one-shotted Spider-Man, and he made note of it, but he decided that it wouldn't be the honorable thing to do. So he took him on hand-to-hand and Spidey won. There is a little PIS, but it's not as bad as you think.

To argue Firelord is a weakling based on that is bs imo.

Originally posted by Stoic
I sure did...lol! It happened and i was convinced that if Spidey fought Firelord again and went ape-shyt on him, that the same thing would happen.

It happened, so what? It's blatant PIS.

DarthDaniel1001
Originally posted by Cubey
To argue Firelord is a weakling based on that is bs imo.



It happened, so what? It's blatant PIS.

Wasn't saying that Firelord was a weakling. I was saying that him losing to Firelord wasn't a completely BS win.

Stoic
Originally posted by Cubey
To argue Firelord is a weakling based on that is bs imo.



It happened, so what? It's blatant PIS.


It's official, it happened Spidey kicked his can in, deal with it. Firelord is a punk. How does this team win? Thor can party in the sun what's Firelord goin to do with him blast him with fire? Thor would break Air Walker all over again, and then poor Firelord would get the beating of his life.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Black bolt z
Team easily.Firelord alone can hang with surfer.Add AW is just overkill.

Yea, okay there.

AirWalker simply doesn't have the durability to be much help if Thor's cutting loose.

Cubey
Originally posted by DarthDaniel1001
Wasn't saying that Firelord was a weakling. I was saying that him losing to Firelord wasn't a completely BS win.

I didn't say you said it.

Originally posted by Stoic
It's official, it happened Spidey kicked his can in, deal with it. Firelord is a punk. How does this team win? Thor can party in the sun what's Firelord goin to do with him blast him with fire? Thor would break Air Walker all over again, and then poor Firelord would get the beating of his life.

Wow... no.

It happened, that doesn't mean you can ignore that it was nonsense. There are examples of this everywhere.

Prime beating up Mxy, Rulk taking on multiple Herald levels, Odin and all of Asgard being overran by ants.

Stoic
Originally posted by Cubey
I didn't say you said it.



Wow... no.

It happened, that doesn't mean you can ignore that it was nonsense. There are examples of this everywhere.

Prime beating up Mxy, Rulk taking on multiple Herald levels, Odin and all of Asgard being overran by ants.


Look I won't tell you what to think, but what I will say is that Firelord isn't that much of a badass. He can't fight, the guy can't fight... lol. besides this isn't about Spidey vs Firelord, it's about how many ways, Thor would make this pansy snivel. Seriously though Firelord can't fight, I see him as one of those guy that gets into a fight, closes his eyes and swings blindly, hoping to connect. Did you see what happened when Morg grabbed him? I could have sworn he made the gulp noise. Aside from shooting fireballs at Thor what else is he going to do?

DarthDaniel1001
Get his ass kicked most likely

Cubey
That's fair enough. I never said he could do anything in this fight anyways, just that the SM thing is a bad example.

Black bolt z
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Yea, okay there.

AirWalker simply doesn't have the durability to be much help if Thor's cutting loose. I think air walker was the weakest herald.But it doesn't change the fact that he could give thor a fight.Add firelord in there and they win.

Stoic
Originally posted by Black bolt z
I think air walker was the weakest herald.But it doesn't change the fact that he could give thor a fight.Add firelord in there and they win.


You're wrong.

Black bolt z
Originally posted by Stoic
You're wrong. On what?Air walker wouldn't last long but its not like he'd be a non-factor.Galactus doesn't create heralds like that.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Black bolt z
I think air walker was the weakest herald.But it doesn't change the fact that he could give thor a fight.Add firelord in there and they win.

Air Walker was able to temporarily knock out Thor with his own hammer after encasing him in his Cosmic Wings but Thor recovered in seconds and Mjolnir literally flew right through Air Walker. Thor was pissed at the time since Air Walker defeated him through treachery and he realized he was fighting a non living hero, so no obligations to hold back.

Here Thor won't have any quarrels of killing. Air Walker gets annihilated while Thor rips FireLord into pieces.

I might argue Nova is the weakest of heralds.

Trade in FireLord for Surfer and I still think they'd get their shit pushed in a straight up raw power/strength vs. raw power/strength fight.

Black bolt z
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Air Walker was able to temporarily knock out Thor with his own hammer after encasing him in his Cosmic Wings but Thor recovered in seconds and Mjolnir literally flew right through Air Walker. Thor was pissed at the time since Air Walker defeated him through treachery and he realized he was fighting a non living hero, so no obligations to hold back.

Here Thor won't have any quarrels of killing. Air Walker gets annihilated while Thor rips FireLord into pieces.

I might argue Nova is the weakest of heralds. Not really.Air walker would probably be able to hold thor for a couplr minutes but obviously eventually losing.And thor will also not kill firelord as he is living.Firelord alone would give thor a good fight.Adding in airwalker who would be more then just fodder would allow the win.

dmills
Out of curiousity, how did the individual fights between them go? Were they long drawn out slugfests or were they beatdowns?

Rage.Of.Olympus
Between FireLord and Thor? FireLord did pretty well. They've had three fights. Thor seemed above him in the first fight -at least physically- with the other two being pretty evenish. Of course, in the last two, he thought of FireLord as a friend who was being controlled which was obviously a factor.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Not really.Air walker would probably be able to hold thor for a couplr minutes but obviously eventually losing.And thor will also not kill firelord as he is living.Firelord alone would give thor a good fight.Adding in airwalker who would be more then just fodder would allow the win.

Nah. Not against a cutting loose Thor. He'd rip Air Walker to pieces rather literally.

Thor won't have any qualms about killing FireLord since he just saw him kill Sif. FireLord would fare worse here than Surfer did during Blood and Thunder in my opinion.

Team gets put down.

Stoic
Firelord wouldn't give Thor a good fight. Thor in this scenario is berserk, and would oneshot the cyborg, and then pull Firefly's scalp back.

Rage.Of.Olympus
I think he would. At least during the late 70's against an everyday Thor.

Black bolt z
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Between FireLord and Thor? FireLord did pretty well. They've had three fights. Thor seemed above him in the first fight -at least physically- with the other two being pretty evenish. Of course, in the last two, he thought of FireLord as a friend who was being controlled which was obviously a factor.



Nah. Not against a cutting loose Thor. He'd rip Air Walker to pieces rather literally.

Thor won't have any qualms about killing FireLord since he just saw him kill Sif. FireLord would fare worse here than Surfer did during Blood and Thunder in my opinion.

Team gets put down. I'm not even going to respond to that...Originally posted by Stoic
Firelord wouldn't give Thor a good fight. Thor in this scenario is berserk, and would oneshot the cyborg, and then pull Firefly's scalp back. No.Hes bloodlusted which means hes not even fighting competently.Hes going to fight like a brick and lose.

Stoic
Originally posted by Black bolt z
I'm not even going to respond to that... No.Hes bloodlusted which means hes not even fighting competently.Hes going to fight like a brick and lose.


Which is even worse for Firelord, because Thor would be aiming for the back of his head.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Black bolt z
I'm not even going to respond to that...

Won't or can't?

Originally posted by Black bolt z
No.Hes bloodlusted which means hes not even fighting competently.Hes going to fight like a brick and lose.

Why does Thor being blood lusted mean he won't use any of his other powers?

His simply pissed off in this scenario. You better believe his throwing around energy and lightning here.

And Thor won't lose if he fights simply like a brick. He can power his way through any of their attacks without being damaged -at least in any notable way- to get his hands on them. If they take to the air, he'd follow. If they try to use superior speed and numbers, I'd bet Thor would respond with some omnidirectional energy.

From what I've seen, FireLord and Air Walker simply blast their opponents. This just won't be enough to defeat this Thor.

dmills
How about the fight with Air Walker?

Black bolt z
Originally posted by Stoic
Which is even worse for Firelord, because Thor would be aiming for the back of his head. WhatOriginally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Won't or can't?



Why does Thor being blood lusted mean he won't use any of his other powers?

His simply pissed off in this scenario. You better believe his throwing around energy and lightning here.

And Thor won't lose if he fights simply like a brick. He can power his way through any of their attacks without being damaged -at least in any notable way- to get his hands on them. If they take to the air, he'd follow. If they try to use superior speed and numbers, I'd bet Thor would respond with some omnidirectional energy.

From what I've seen, FireLord and Air Walker simply blast their opponents. This just won't be enough to defeat this Thor. Won't.

Because he normally fights like a brick and being bloodlusted would only make him fight stupider...

The OP makes it seem like hes bloodlusted.Not just pissed.

Scans of thor uses omnidirectional blasts?

Not sure about air walker but I know thats not all firelord does.Thats a good portion of what he does but not all or most of it.

Stoic
Originally posted by dmills
How about the fight with Air Walker?


Air Walker would be torn apart. Thor knows that it's a cyborg, and would deal with it without mercy. Firelord is a wuss, he couldn't fight his way out of a sandwich eating contest. I could see Thor catching his punch, and breaking his arm in 2 places, while he screams.

Black bolt z
Originally posted by Stoic
Air Walker would be torn apart. Thor knows that it's a cyborg, and would deal with it without mercy. Firelord is a wuss, he couldn't fight his way out of a sandwich eating contest. I could see Thor catching his punch, and breaking his arm in 2 places, while he screams. Then apparently you don't know who firelord is.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by dmills
How about the fight with Air Walker?

Against Air Walker? They went toe to toe for a bit. Air Walker catches Mjolnir to Thor's shock. Get's pulled down to Thor -he couldn't prevent it from returning to Thor's hand- and places his cosmic wings over Thor's head -which were stealing his breath or something similar- and then bashes him over the head with Mjolnir. This left him insensate.

Thor gets up in like 3 panels, is pissed off since Air Walker momentarily defeated him through treachery and tosses Mjolnir through his chest killing him. He tossed Mjolnir previously at him, and all it did was stun him. Thor simply kicked it up a notch.

Interestingly, in that fight, Thor claimed that not even Galactus can alter Mjolnir's enchantment. I guess back then, that would have been the case.

Black bolt z
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Against Air Walker? They went toe to toe for a bit. Air Walker catches Mjolnir to Thor's shock. Get's pulled down to Thor -he couldn't prevent it from returning to Thor's hand- and places his cosmic wings over Thor's head -which were stealing his breath or something similar- and then bashes him over the head with Mjolnir. This left him insensate.

Thor gets up in like 3 panels, is pissed off since Air Walker momentarily defeated him through treachery and tosses Mjolnir through his chest killing him. He tossed Mjolnir previously at him, and all it did was stun him. Thor simply kicked it up a notch.

Interestingly, in that fight, Thor claimed that not even Galactus can alter Mjolnir's enchantment. I guess back then, that would have been the case. 3 panels?Like he was struggling to get up?

And what trechary?if he can do it once he can do it again.They firelord can blast him while hes down.

Johnny Sorrow
Originally posted by Black bolt z
3 panels?Like he was struggling to get up?

And what trechary?if he can do it once he can do it again.They firelord can blast him while hes down.

Psssh. He won't be able to catch Mjolnir again in this battle. Thor won't be going easy on him.

Stoic
Originally posted by Black bolt z
Then apparently you don't know who firelord is.


When did you ever see Firelord do anything but get pulled down in a fight? In Annihilation, he got pulled down, Hercules broke his jaw with one punch, Spiderman danced all over his face, and Thor would clean his clock if he wasn't holding back. To make matters worse for Firelord, Thor has been enhanced since the olden days when guys like Firelord would give him problems, and he's in berserker mode to boot! This means that he's one step away from warrior madness? This team would need help... serious help.

dmills
Phuck man I have to get me some old school Thor. Question. Is Thor being repped well in his new stuff or is he getting chumped like he is in other books?

Stoic
Originally posted by Black bolt z
3 panels?Like he was struggling to get up?

And what trechary?if he can do it once he can do it again.They firelord can blast him while hes down.


Thor can sleep in the sun, what good would Firelords blasts do for him?

Black bolt z
Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
Psssh. He won't be able to catch Mjolnir again in this battle. Thor won't be going easy on him. Why not?Originally posted by Stoic
When did you ever see Firelord do anything but get pulled down in a fight? In Annihilation, he got pulled down, Hercules broke his jaw with one punch, Spiderman danced all over his face, and Thor would clean his clock if he wasn't holding back. To make matters worse for Firelord, Thor has been enhanced since the olden days when guys like Firelord would give him problems, and he's in berserker mode to boot! This means that he's one step away from warrior madness? This team would need help... serious help. Not really.This team can beat thor.And are you really bringing up spiderman beating firelord?

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Black bolt z
Because he normally fights like a brick and being bloodlusted would only make him fight stupider...

The OP makes it seem like hes bloodlusted.Not just pissed.

Scans of thor uses omnidirectional blasts?

Not sure about air walker but I know thats not all firelord does.Thats a good portion of what he does but not all or most of it.

Thor tosses around lightning and energy so often -at least recently- that we might as well consider it a norm for him.

http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/OmniLightning.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/DestroysArmada2.jpg

http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/OmniLightning4.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/ThorvsWarlockandSilverSurfer8.jpg

Seeing Sif killed doesn't automatically mean he fights dumber.

When his FireLord done anything besides blast or try to subdue an opponent with raw energy/power? I honestly can't remember even one instance.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Black bolt z
3 panels?Like he was struggling to get up?

And what trechary?if he can do it once he can do it again.They firelord can blast him while hes down.

He was knocked out as far as I know.

That's what Thor called it. I'm pretty sure his referring to his cape suddenly attacking him and stealing his breath from him which is something I guess Thor doesn't consider honorable since it was a sneaky move. I doubt he would allow it to happen again.

For such a move to work again, he'd have to get right up in Thor's face. Such a tactic won't work here. Air Walker isn't tanking Thor's hits in this scenario.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Black bolt z
Why not?

Because Thor isn't playing around, and they just killed Sif. At least FireLord did and Thor knows the two are working together.

dmills
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Thor tosses around lightning and energy so often -at least recently- that we might as well consider it a norm for him.

http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/OmniLightning.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/DestroysArmada2.jpg

http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/OmniLightning4.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/ThorvsWarlockandSilverSurfer8.jpg

Seeing Sif killed doesn't automatically mean he fights dumber.

When his FireLord done anything besides blast or try to subdue an opponent with raw energy/power? I honestly can't remember even one instance. He's had some nice energy absorption feats, but for the most part you're right.

Rage.Of.Olympus
FireLord will be doing plenty of absorping in this fight. His face will most definitely be absorbing Thor's punches.

Originally posted by dmills
Phuck man I have to get me some old school Thor. Question. Is Thor being repped well in his new stuff or is he getting chumped like he is in other books?

Yea, in his own books his doing just fine. He just worked his way through the hordes of Mephisto last issue. And his doing pretty well in the Avengers.

Stoic
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Thor tosses around lightning and energy so often -at least recently- that we might as well consider it a norm for him.

http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/OmniLightning.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/DestroysArmada2.jpg

http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/OmniLightning4.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/ThorvsWarlockandSilverSurfer8.jpg

Seeing Sif killed doesn't automatically mean he fights dumber.

When his FireLord done anything besides blast or try to subdue an opponent with raw energy/power? I honestly can't remember even one instance.


He's a punk with a sissy staff! He doesn't know how to fight, all Thor would need to do is close the distance and pop him in the mouth. What I don't get, is why people think that just because Thor goes berserk that he forgets that he has a weapon, and how to use his other powers.

Black bolt z
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Thor tosses around lightning and energy so often -at least recently- that we might as well consider it a norm for him.

http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/OmniLightning.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/DestroysArmada2.jpg

http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/OmniLightning4.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/ThorvsWarlockandSilverSurfer8.jpg

Seeing Sif killed doesn't automatically mean he fights dumber.

When his FireLord done anything besides blast or try to subdue an opponent with raw energy/power? I honestly can't remember even one instance. Ok.He can do omnis.but the second one has lightning in space confused

To me it sounds like hes bloodlusted which will make him fight dumber.

In some of his fights with surfer and drax.I haven't read that much of him but enough to know that he doesn't just energy blast.Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
He was knocked out as far as I know.

That's what Thor called it. I'm pretty sure his referring to his cape suddenly attacking him and stealing his breath from him which is something I guess Thor doesn't consider honorable since it was a sneaky move. I doubt he would allow it to happen again.

For such a move to work again, he'd have to get right up in Thor's face. Such a tactic won't work here. Air Walker isn't tanking Thor's hits in this scenario. So that would count as a win.

Allow it?Didn't sound like he had much of a choice.

Tanking?No.He could take a good amount.Mabye 5-15 before he dies.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Because Thor isn't playing around, and they just killed Sif. At least FireLord did and Thor knows the two are working together. So he would probably go for firelord first.Then couldn't air walker take away his hammer and then firelord beat him down with cosmic fire and such?

Black bolt z
Originally posted by Stoic
He's a punk with a sissy staff! He doesn't know how to fight, all Thor would need to do is close the distance and pop him in the mouth. What I don't get, is why people think that just because Thor goes berserk that he forgets that he has a weapon, and how to use his other powers. Originally posted by Black bolt z
Then apparently you don't know who firelord is.

Stoic
Originally posted by Black bolt z



Show me one instance where you see Firelord showing his Jet Li moves... I challenge you to show me just one time.

Black bolt z
Originally posted by Stoic
Show me one instance where you see Firelord showing his Jet Li moves... I challenge you to show me just one time. What do you mean jet li moves?Hes not a ninja.But for some reason you think hes just a sissy that only uses fire.You are completely wrong.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Black bolt z
Ok.He can do omnis.but the second one has lightning in space confused

So?

Originally posted by Black bolt z
To me it sounds like hes bloodlusted which will make him fight dumber.

That's debatable.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
In some of his fights with surfer and drax.I haven't read that much of him but enough to know that he doesn't just energy blast. So that would count as a win.

I haven't seen him do anything besides blast opponents or try to overpower them with energy. He apparently has absorbed energy in the past.

I guess.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Allow it?Didn't sound like he had much of a choice.

He simply didn't expect it as far as I saw. If Air Walker even attempted the same tactic, he better be prepared for a hole in his chest.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Tanking?No.He could take a good amount.Mabye 5-15 before he dies.

I see Thor literally putting his fist through Air Walker's face or ripping him into pieces.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
So he would probably go for firelord first.Then couldn't air walker take away his hammer and then firelord beat him down with cosmic fire and such?

I don't see how Air Walker would remove Mjolnir from Thor. At least not straight up.

I don't see that happening personally. At least not in any reasonable amount of attacks. The most I ever recall FireLord's cosmic fire doing to Thor is slightly draining him of his strength. And that was a blood lusted Fire Lord who placed Thor in the epicenter of his inferno. Thor had just fought AirWalker to boot. Thor removed FireLord when his temper became a bit flared by the way.

Everytime Thor has withstood a blast from FireLord, he has been unharmed and he has literally jumped through his blasts.

Black bolt z
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
So?



That's debatable.



I haven't seen him do anything besides blast opponents or try to overpower them with energy. He apparently has absorbed energy in the past.

I guess.



He simply didn't expect it as far as I saw. If Air Walker even attempted the same tactic, he better be prepared for a hole in his chest.



I see Thor literally putting his fist through Air Walker's face or ripping him into pieces.



I don't see how Air Walker would remove Mjolnir from Thor. At least not straight up.

I don't see that happening personally. The most I ever recall FireLord's cosmic fire doing to Thor is slightly draining him of his strength. And that was a blood lusted Fire Lord who placed Thor in the epicenter of his inferno. Thor had just fought AirWalker to boot. Thor removed FireLord when his temper became a bit flared by the way.

Everytime Thor has withstood a blast from FireLord, he has been unharmed and he has literally jumped through his blasts. Isn't that like...not physically possible?

Whos the OP?I'll PM him.

I'll try posting scans later.I'll have to figure out how to do it though.And i'm currently at my dads which doesn't have any of my comic boxes.

Any reason why he could try a different tactic but have the same result?Any you do know air walker was a person as well as an android right?

In one hit?Not a chance.If galactus created heralds like that he'd starve to death.

Like he did before?

And what?If firelord is coming as herald of galactus in this scenario he won't be afraid to kill and go all out here.

Stoic
Originally posted by Black bolt z
Isn't that like...not physically possible?

Whos the OP?I'll PM him.

I'll try posting scans later.I'll have to figure out how to do it though.And i'm currently at my dads which doesn't have any of my comic boxes.

Any reason why he could try a different tactic but have the same result?Any you do know air walker was a person as well as an android right?

In one hit?Not a chance.If galactus created heralds like that he'd starve to death.

Like he did before?

And what?If firelord is coming as herald of galactus in this scenario he won't be afraid to kill and go all out here.


And what if Thor grabbed him, and repeatedly pounded his face in? I guess all of that fire throwing nonsense just floats out the window. Right?

Black bolt z
Originally posted by Stoic
And what if Thor grabbed him, and repeatedly pounded his face in? I guess all of that fire throwing nonsense just floats out the window. Right? And what if firelord grabs thor and they both pound his face in?

Amirtite?

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Black bolt z
Isn't that like...not physically possible?

Whos the OP?I'll PM him.

I'll try posting scans later.I'll have to figure out how to do it though.And i'm currently at my dads which doesn't have any of my comic boxes.

Any reason why he could try a different tactic but have the same result?Any you do know air walker was a person as well as an android right?

In one hit?Not a chance.If galactus created heralds like that he'd starve to death.

Like he did before?

And what?If firelord is coming as herald of galactus in this scenario he won't be afraid to kill and go all out here.

Thor's magic.

Check the OP.

Take your time.

Like what? So?

Not necessarily one hit but if one hammer throw can kill him when Thor's pissed, I don't see why it's impossible Thor could f*ck his shit up with one hit when his going all out. Scratch that. It will f*ck his shit up.

And what? It shows that Thor is extremely resistant to FireLord's attacks. He isn't putting Thor down by simply trying to blast him.

Thor's already fought a blood lusted FireLord. Guess what? He didn't die, and Thor was constantly trying to run away -holding back- due to their friendship.

Even the best Norrin has managed to do to Thor is knock him off his feet with multiple blasts while being significantly amped and Thor was holding back at the time.

Here's the scene I was talking about previously:
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/ThorvsFireLord10.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/ThorvsFireLord11.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/ThorvsFireLord12.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/ThorvsFireLord13.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/ThorvsFireLord14.jpg

quanchi112
Originally posted by Black bolt z
And what if firelord grabs thor and they both pound his face in?

Amirtite? Dude, Thor's highest showings make these two look like children in comparison. The guy has made Galactus fear for his life, and demolished the Surfer. At his best Thor wins.

Stoic
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Thor's magic.

Check the OP.

Take your time.

Like what? So?

Not necessarily one hit but if one hammer throw can kill him when Thor's pissed, I don't see why it's impossible Thor could f*ck his shit up with one hit when his going all out. Scratch that. It will f*ck his shit up.

And what? It shows that Thor is extremely resistant to FireLord's attacks. He isn't putting Thor down by simply trying to blast him.

Thor's already fought a blood lusted FireLord. Guess what? He didn't die, and Thor was constantly trying to run away -holding back- due to their friendship.

Even the best Norrin has managed to do to Thor is knock him off his feet with multiple blasts while being significantly amped and Thor was holding back at the time.

Here's the scene I was talking about previously:
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/ThorvsFireLord10.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/ThorvsFireLord11.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/ThorvsFireLord12.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/ThorvsFireLord13.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/ThorvsFireLord14.jpg


Hey Rage when he fought Thor, you can't go forgetting that Thor back in those days was rated as a class 95 in the Marvel handbooks, and Firelord was rated class 50. thor has changed since then, I don't recall Galactus giving Firelord an upgrade though. Also Morg easily pulled Airwalkers arm off and beat him him with it.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Those are just handbooks. I don't think Thor's any stronger -at least not by any amount that would matter- now than he was back then.

The only actual upgrade I can recall Thor receiving, is Mjolnir being more powerful -or at least more durable- due to Odin repairing it from the damage done by Perrikus.

FireLord's stock has fallen though. If they fought in the 80's or 90's, I'd have expected Thor to push his shit in. Mostly due to Thor's how Thor was viewed on the food chain during that era.

Black bolt z
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Thor's magic.

Check the OP.

Take your time.

Like what? So?

Not necessarily one hit but if one hammer throw can kill him when Thor's pissed, I don't see why it's impossible Thor could f*ck his shit up with one hit when his going all out. Scratch that. It will f*ck his shit up.

And what? It shows that Thor is extremely resistant to FireLord's attacks. He isn't putting Thor down by simply trying to blast him.

Thor's already fought a blood lusted FireLord. Guess what? He didn't die, and Thor was constantly trying to run away -holding back- due to their friendship.

Even the best Norrin has managed to do to Thor is knock him off his feet with multiple blasts while being significantly amped and Thor was holding back at the time.

Here's the scene I was talking about previously:
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/ThorvsFireLord10.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/ThorvsFireLord11.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/ThorvsFireLord12.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/ThorvsFireLord13.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/ThorvsFireLord14.jpg But where is the lightning comming from?And how can there be lightning in space?

I PM'ed him.

Thanks

Mabye having firelord distract him and let him get hit and fall then when thor rasies his hammer to try to finish him air waler takes it and firelord blasts the hammerless thor?Or something along those lines. And so the hammer wouldn't go strait through him...

I mean I obviously see thoir downing him too but not nearly as fast you do.IMO it would have to be at least a minimum of 5 with his fists and 3 with the hammer.

What shows?This part confused me.

But in this fight firelord will be fighting with galactus and will be wanting to kill but won't be made with rage like thor is.It is due to these circumstances that i think he wins.Now if the OP responds back saying hes just pissed but also fighting competently i'd say thor wins.But under the conditions I think it is i say team wins.

So is norrin...and firelord by himself won't be any good but being on the team with air walker they could combo him.

And if anything those scans of proved to me more that firelord can take thor.And with air walker on his team they will win.

Black bolt z
Originally posted by quanchi112
Dude, Thor's highest showings make these two look like children in comparison. The guy has made Galactus fear for his life, and demolished the Surfer. At his best Thor wins. Obviously.At his best thor is a cosmic.But this isn't thor at his best.And the making galactus fear for his life was the godblast which these two won't allow him to have the luxury of using that here.

Johnny Sorrow
Lightning in space is physically possible. There's no reason why Thor can't create lightning in those circumstances.

Black bolt z
Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
Lightning in space is physically possible. There's no reason why Thor can't create lightning in those circumstances. Doesn't lightning need..cloud...which needs...air....which space...doesn't have?

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Black bolt z
But where is the lightning comming from?And how can there be lightning in space?

From Thor I'm guessing.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
I PM'ed him.

Thanks

No prob.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Mabye having firelord distract him and let him get hit and fall then when thor rasies his hammer to try to finish him air waler takes it and firelord blasts the hammerless thor?Or something along those lines. And so the hammer wouldn't go strait through him...

The way you seem to lay out strategies, it's as if the team already planned out their attack plan or something. Anyways.....

I don't see Air Walker wresting Mjolnir from Thor through raw power or strength.

FireLord blasting a harmless Thor would at best knock down Thor or slightly backwards. Thor could easily recall Mjolnir back to him and I don't see Air Walker being able to stop Mjolnir from returning even if this tactic worked.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
I mean I obviously see thoir downing him too but not nearly as fast you do.IMO it would have to be at least a minimum of 5 with his fists and 3 with the hammer.

Why? 1 throw put a hole through his chest. 1. There wasn't even any twirling or energy involved. He simply tossed it.

I think the difference between a Mjolnir hit and a Thor punch is smaller than that on average.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
What shows?This part confused me.

Thor's fights with FireLord.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
But in this fight firelord will be fighting with galactus and will be wanting to kill but won't be made with rage like thor is.It is due to these circumstances that i think he wins.Now if the OP responds back saying hes just pissed but also fighting competently i'd say thor wins.But under the conditions I think it is i say team wins.

Thor will be pissed off but he isn't some raging wild animal. He will still have his senses about him unless his in Warrior Madness.

Due to his nature and how he fights -mainly blasting opponents- I think a FireLord enraged due his feelings would be superior to a FireLord who kills simply due to Galactus' orders. At least from what I've seen.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
So is norrin...and firelord by himself won't be any good but being on the team with air walker they could combo him.

What?

Originally posted by Black bolt z
And if anything those scans of proved to me more that firelord can take thor.And with air walker on his team they will win.

Sure, FireLord can take on Thor when his holding back due to their friendship and shit.

Johnny Sorrow
Originally posted by Black bolt z
Doesn't lightning need..cloud...which needs...air....which space...doesn't have?

Lightning is just electricity traveling between atoms. All you need is particles to jump to. Space isn't a literal vacuum.

Black bolt z
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
From Thor I'm guessing.



No prob.



The way you seem to lay out strategies, it's as if the team already planned out their attack plan or something. Anyways.....

I don't see Air Walker wresting Mjolnir from Thor through raw power or strength.

FireLord blasting a harmless Thor would at best knock down Thor or slightly backwards. Thor could easily recall Mjolnir back to him and I don't see Air Walker being able to stop Mjolnir from returning even if this tactic worked.



Why? 1 throw put a hole through his chest. 1. There wasn't even any twirling or energy involved. He simply tossed it.

I think the difference between a Mjolnir hit and a Thor punch is smaller than that on average.



Thor's fights with FireLord.



Thor will be pissed off but he isn't some raging wild animal. He will still have his senses about him unless his in Warrior Madness.

Due to his nature and how he fights -mainly blasting opponents- I think a FireLord enraged due his feelings would be superior to a FireLord who kills simply due to Galactus' orders. At least from what I've seen.



What?



Sure, FireLord can take on Thor when his holding back due to their friendship and shit. duroll

You asked for a tactic I gave one.

Neither do I.but the way you said he did it before he can do it again.

No but they could keep him off balance.Its like when the avengers tried to beat the beyonder.The plan was to keep him from thinking so he couldn't do anything.Just keep him off balance and keep pounding him.

I don't know if this is mechanical or real air walker.I'll ask again.

And I know.

To me it looked like no one won.And no one really had an advantage.

Yes he will.Just not as much.And that will be his downfall.

To me it doesn't sound like it would be much different.I mean firelord faithfully served his master.

Norrin is holding back too when he fights thor.And either firelord or air walker alone would lose to thor but together they can beat him.

How exactly was thor holding back?To me it looked like he fights like he normally does.

Rage.Of.Olympus
MOTHERF*CKER!!!

I literally just finished replying to your post and my piece of shit PC turns off!

http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/7213/rageguy.png

Iight, I'm a do a quick reply. Don't have a patience for that wall of text again.

Black bolt z
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
MOTHERF*CKER!!!

I literally just finished replying to your post and my piece of shit PC turns off!

http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/7213/rageguy.png

Iight, I'm a do a quick reply. Don't have a patience for that wall of text again. laughing out loud

Take your time.I'm going to bed.Just have it finished by tomorrow.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Black bolt z
duroll

You asked for a tactic I gave one.

Neither do I.but the way you said he did it before he can do it again.

It required a sneaky little move. He placed his Cosmic Wings over Thor's face, causing Thor to let go instinctively and reach for his face from what I saw.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
No but they could keep him off balance.Its like when the avengers tried to beat the beyonder.The plan was to keep him from thinking so he couldn't do anything.Just keep him off balance and keep pounding him

Doesn't sound too different from what Norrin and Warlock tried. It didn't turn out well for them by the way.

You can only keep an opponent like Thor off balance for so long. It would be extremely easy for him to unleash a roar of energy or lightning to stop their assault. Which is likely his go tactic if they resort to a hit and run scenario, or something similar to which you mentioned.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
I don't know if this is mechanical or real air walker.I'll ask again.

Would it make any difference?

Originally posted by Black bolt z
And I know.

To me it looked like no one won.And no one really had an advantage.

Yes he will.Just not as much.And that will be his downfall.

My main point is that FireLord is likely not going to be able to put this Thor down by simply blasting him.

I don't think current Thor would be reduced to a raging animal.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
To me it doesn't sound like it would be much different.I mean firelord faithfully served his master.

Norrin is holding back too when he fights thor.And either firelord or air walker alone would lose to thor but together they can beat him.

With a character like FireLord, I think going for the kill due to having a close or personal emotional involvement would make him a bit more powerful than if he was going for the kill simply due to orders.

IRCC, Loki was manipulating him, forcing him to fight and so on even though Norrin didn't truly want to. Which would lead me to believe there wasn't much -or even any- holding back in terms of how much power Norrin can unleash.

During Blood and Thunder, Thor took multiple shots from Norrin -this was after Norrin stated he was cutting loose- and it didn't do shit.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
How exactly was thor holding back?To me it looked like he fights like he normally does.

erm

Would you care to point out to me in which comic Thor actively tries to run away from his opponent and so on without extenuating circumstances.

Starscream M
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus


Would you care to point out to me in which comic Thor actively tries to run away from his opponent and so on without extenuating circumstances. he ran away to live with humans because he didn't want the burden of being a god

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Starscream M
he ran away to live with humans because he didn't want the burden of being a god

Where? And that doesn't mean he'd run away if he was in a fight. Completely out of Thor's nature.

You better not be talking about his origin story.

dmills
Originally posted by Starscream M
he ran away to live with humans because he didn't want the burden of being a god Wait what?

Slaanesh
team easily

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by Slaanesh
team easily

LOL...

Why am I not surprised by the complexity and thoughtfulness of Slaanesh's reply...

Question Slaanesh; if Thor can decisively beat Surfer and Warlock (and would you agree that Surfer and Warlock>>Firelord and Air-Walker?) what makes you think that the team "easily" beats Thor?

Do you have a rational justification for your belief or are you talking out of your a**?

DarthDaniel1001
Sorry it took me so long to reply. To answer Black Bolt Z's questions, Air-Walker is indeed the mechanical one here. As for Thor, he just saw Firelord jam his fire-staff into Sif's back. What do you think?

As it is, I agree with RageofOlympus. Thor is still going to fight reasonably well, not like a mindless brute.

basilisk
Originally posted by Stoic
Firelord is a wuss, he couldn't fight his way out of a sandwich eating contest.
I wonder if anyone, anywhere in the whole of history, has ever had to fight their way out of a sandwich eating contest?

Anyway, I given the circumstances I could see this going the way of the B & T fight where he was beating up Drax, Maxam, Warlock, and Surfer. I wouldn't write off Firestorm easily but he does have a history of being second banana to Silver Surfer.

Black bolt z
Originally posted by DarthDaniel1001
Sorry it took me so long to reply. To answer Black Bolt Z's questions, Air-Walker is indeed the mechanical one here. As for Thor, he just saw Firelord jam his fire-staff into Sif's back. What do you think?

As it is, I agree with RageofOlympus. Thor is still going to fight reasonably well, not like a mindless brute. So he's going for the kill but isn't fighting like a brute?

I might have to reconsider my side.Firelord and AW can still give a helluva fight but now I don't know...

so @Rage i'll concede...for now biscuits

Black bolt z
Originally posted by basilisk
I wonder if anyone, anywhere in the whole of history, has ever had to fight their way out of a sandwich eating contest?

Anyway, I given the circumstances I could see this going the way of the B & T fight where he was beating up Drax, Maxam, Warlock, and Surfer. I wouldn't write off Firestorm easily but he does have a history of being second banana to Silver Surfer. So?Thor is the same.Firelord always does lose to surfer but it is stated many many times surfer is the most powerful herald.

Slaanesh
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
LOL...

Why am I not surprised by the complexity and thoughtfulness of Slaanesh's reply...

Question Slaanesh; if Thor can decisively beat Surfer and Warlock (and would you agree that Surfer and Warlock>>Firelord and Air-Walker?) what makes you think that the team "easily" beats Thor?

Do you have a rational justification for your belief or are you talking out of your a**?

i'm talking out of my ass..

oh and..

Originally posted by Slaanesh
team easily

the Darkone
Thor had bested Silver Surfer and Adam Warlock in Blood and Thunder, and these two would rape FL and AW. Thor will literally murder them they will be a blood stain on the grounds of Asgard.

Rage.Of.Olympus
I like the Darkone. He seems to really know his stuff.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
so @Rage i'll concede...for now biscuits

What is this, like the third time?

You'd be better off just agreeing with me from the get go.

ha-som

amnesia
Same could be said about you love

Rage.Of.Olympus
bashful

darthgoober
Team takes it. Thor would take the majority over either solo, but both of them have given him far too tough a fight for me to buy his beating both of them other than the occasional fluke.

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by darthgoober
Team takes it. Thor would take the majority over either solo, but both of them have given him far too tough a fight for me to buy his beating both of them barring the occasional fluke.

Thors mental state would be much different given the senario put forth by the OP than in either of Thor's encounters in the past with these guys; this Thor would be out to kill Firelord and utterly destroy Airwalker...

Blood and Thunder showed what a non-holding back Thor is capable of; if he could beat Warlock and Surfer to the point that they had to flee for their lives, then he kills these two inferior opponents...especially since Firelord kills Sif before his very eyes and the fact that Asgard is under direct threat of destruction.

darthgoober
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Thors mental state would be much different given the senario put forth by the OP than in either of Thor's encounters in the past with these guys; this Thor would be out to kill Firelord and utterly destroy Airwalker...

Blood and Thunder showed what a non-holding back Thor is capable of; if he could beat Warlock and Surfer to the point that they had to flee for their lives, then he kills these two inferior opponents...especially since Firelord kills Sif before his very eyes and the fact that Asgard is under direct threat of destruction.
And both of these guy's mental state is obviously different than their previous encounters since they're motivated to the point of murdering Sif in cold blood right out of the gate.

Blood and Thunder was one arc out of the characters entire career, and nearly everyone agree that there was an amp involved. Given Firelord's ability to match Thor's energy output and Airwalker's ability to keep and wield Thor's hammer against him, Thor has no logical way of winning this fight. Hell if Gabriel can get his hands on Thor's hammer he can just hang back while Firelord blasts the shit out of a flightless Thor.

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by darthgoober
Blood and Thunder was one arc out of the characters entire career, and nearly everyone agree that there was an amp involved. Objection: bullsh1t.

DarthDaniel1001
The reason Air-Walker is so cold-blooded is becuase this is the mechanical version. As I recall, Thor one-shotted the mechanical version. I don't see why he can't just do it again. Then it's a very pissed off Thor against Firelord. I'd say Thor wins.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by darthgoober
And both of these guy's mental state is obviously different than their previous encounters since they're motivated to the point of murdering Sif in cold blood right out of the gate.

Blood and Thunder was one arc out of the characters entire career, and nearly everyone agree that there was an amp involved.

Thor's faced a blood lusted FireLord before. Air Walker didn't seem like someone who was prone to holding back as I recall. He wanted to kill Thor I think.

Nearly everyone? Hahahaha. A bunch of butt hurt cosmic based fans. And for the last time, there was no amp. At the very least, an outside one. If this mythical amp did exist, it would have come purely from Thor tapping into his own well of power/strength.

darthgoober
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Objection: bullsh1t.
Not really. I know you and Rage don't think there was an anp involved, but surely you've noticed that you're in an extreme minority there. I could track down quote from quite a few people who think there was an amp involved, how many do you really think you could track down that believe the contrary?

darthgoober
Originally posted by DarthDaniel1001
The reason Air-Walker is so cold-blooded is becuase this is the mechanical version. As I recall, Thor one-shotted the mechanical version. I don't see why he can't just do it again. Then it's a very pissed off Thor against Firelord. I'd say Thor wins.
Firelord's the one who killed Sif without hesitation, I'd say he's pretty bloodlusted...

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by darthgoober
Not really. I know you and Rage don't think there was an anp involved, but surely you've noticed that you're in an extreme minority there. I could track down quote from quite a few people who think there was an amp involved, how many do you really think you could track down that believe the contrary? I can track down a lot of people who have vocalized that Wolverine never had his brain pierced by projectiles/stabby things.

This mythical amp during Blood and Thunder is more of the same butt-hurt.

darthgoober
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Thor's faced a blood lusted FireLord before. Air Walker didn't seem like someone who was prone to holding back as I recall. He wanted to kill Thor I think.

Nearly everyone? Hahahaha. A bunch of butt hurt cosmic based fans. And for the last time, there was no amp. At the very least, an outside one. If this mythical amp did exist, it would have come purely from Thor tapping into his own well of power/strength.
Read my post to ODG.

An amp is an amp. Lightray's amp from insanity was internal as well, but we still don't consider "bloodlusted Lightray" to be the same as "insane Lightray".

OneDumbG0
^ Amazing that Pluto, Ares, Hercules, BRB, Super-Skrull, Drax, Sif, Surfer, Warlock, Moondragon, Goddess and all the other people that were confronting him while he was suffering from this insanity across 20+ issues never mentioned how Thor was 10X more powerful than he was before.

darthgoober
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I can track down a lot of people who have vocalized that Wolverine never had his brain pierced by projectiles/stabby things.

This mythical amp during Blood and Thunder is more of the same butt-hurt.
You definately could, but that's irrelevant to what we're talking about. I said that most agree there was an amp involved, the fact that there are people who disagree with the majority doesn't change that.

Not really, just looking at everything involving the characters rather than a single arc.

darthgoober
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Amazing that Pluto, Ares, Hercules, BRB, Super-Skrull, Drax, Sif, Surfer, Warlock, Moondragon, Goddess and all the other people that were confronting him while he was suffering from this insanity across 20+ issues never mentioned how Thor was 10X more powerful than he was before.
I never said that he was 10x more powerful, I said I believe there was an amp involved. And Warlock DID mention Thor being more dangerous than he was while in Warrior Madness...

Starscream M
Originally posted by darthgoober
I never said that he was 10x more powerful, I said I believe there was an amp involved. And Warlock DID mention Thor being more dangerous than he was while in Warrior Madness... being more dangerous doesn't nec imply more power

a lunatic with a knife is more dangerous than a police officer with a gun

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by darthgoober
I never said that he was 10x more powerful, I said I believe there was an amp involved. And Warlock DID mention Thor being more dangerous than he was while in Warrior Madness... Being more vague about how quantifiable the amp was doesn't make your speculation any more reliable; it'd have the opposite effect. Warlock didn't mention that. Already had that argument with someone else.

darthgoober
Originally posted by Starscream M
being more dangerous doesn't nec imply more power

a lunatic with a knife is more dangerous than a police officer with a gun
Indeed, but it could. So it's not as if Thor being amped is a baseless assumption.

And yeah the lunatic would be more dangerous than the cop, but would he be more dangerous than another lunatic with a gun?

Starscream M
Originally posted by darthgoober
Indeed, but it could. your argument is already starting to crumble...under my intense scrutiny.

you went from claiming the amp was an implied certainty to now hedging that it is a mere possibility.

well, anything's possible. I could say anyone at any time is amped due to a higher than normal showing, couldn't I?

darthgoober
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Being more vague about how quantifiable the amp was doesn't make your speculation any more reliable; it'd have the opposite effect. Warlock didn't mention that. Already had that argument with someone else.
Yeah he did, he specifically said that Thor was more dangerous than he was in their previous encounter, and we all know that in that particular fight he was in the grips of Warrior Madness.

And I'm not saying that the vagueness does make it more reliable, I'm just pointing out that I'm not making the claim you think I am.

darthgoober
Originally posted by Starscream M
your argument is already starting to crumble...under my intense scrutiny.

you went from claiming the amp was an implied certainty to now hedging that it is a mere possibility.

well, anything's possible. I could say anyone at any time is amped due to a higher than normal showing, couldn't I?
My arguement hasn't changed. I said that Warlock said Thor was more dangerous because ODG seemed to imply that no one noted a difference in Thor, I was showing that Warlock DID.

Starscream M
Originally posted by darthgoober
My arguement hasn't changed. I said that Warlock said Thor was more dangerous because ODG seemed to imply that no one noted a difference in Thor, I was showing that Warlock DID. now you're pulling strawman and misconstruing what ODG said

ODG never said or implied that no one noted a difference in thor...he said no one remarked any noticeable amp in power in Thor

darthgoober
Originally posted by Starscream M
now you're pulling strawman and misconstruing what ODG said

ODG never said or implied that no one noted a difference in thor...he said no one remarked any noticeable amp in power in Thor
I'm not strawmaning or misconstuing anything, like I said it's what ODG seemed to be implying. He was speaking definitively about no character commenting on an increase in power from Thor, so I pointed out a statement that could easily be interpreted as such to show that it was in no way definite.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by darthgoober
Yeah he did, he specifically said that Thor was more dangerous than he was in their previous encounter, and we all know that in that particular fight he was in the grips of Warrior Madness.

And I'm not saying that the vagueness does make it more reliable, I'm just pointing out that I'm not making the claim you think I am.

1) The memory argument.

2) A pissed off Thor is more dangerous than a Warrior Madness Thor. Warrior Madness for like 99% of the time doesn't amp Thor's strength.

3) During his fight with Him, Thor fought solely like a a brick, throwing only punches. During his fight with Warlock and Surfer, Thor fought like a God. Energy projection, flying and so on was in full swing. Which would explain why Warlock believed Thor was more dangerous than he remembered.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Read my post to ODG.

An amp is an amp. Lightray's amp from insanity was internal as well, but we still don't consider "bloodlusted Lightray" to be the same as "insane Lightray".

Read it. Doesn't prove anything.

Well, isn't that too bad for Lightray? I however don't doubt Thor could replicate what he did during Blood and Thunder if he were pissed. Thor has high end feats greater than what he did in this story. His high showings in this particular arc however have to be invalidated in some way as said high showings revolved around Thor raping Surfer.

Call it an amp if it helps you sleep better at night. I personally don't care. But don't assume the stance -at least where it was heading- that what Thor did during Blood and Thunder isn't something applicable to him due to a mythical amp. You can call it as outside of his norm if you like. That's fine.

darthgoober
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
1) The memory argument.

2) A pissed off Thor is more dangerous than a Warrior Madness Thor. Warrior Madness for like 99% of the time doesn't amp Thor's strength.

3) During his fight with Him, Thor fought solely like a a brick, throwing only punches. During his fight with Warlock and Surfer, Thor fought like a God. Energy projection, flying and so on was in full swing. Which would explain why Warlock believed Thor was more dangerous than he remembered.

You're argueing opinion here. You believe he meant one thing, I believe he meant another.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Read it. Doesn't prove anything.

Well, isn't that too bad for Lightray? I however don't doubt Thor could replicate what he did during Blood and Thunder if he were pissed. He has higher feats than treating Surfer like a b*tch.

Call it an amp if it helps you sleep better at night. I personally don't care. But don't assume the stance -at least where it was heading- that what Thor did during Blood and Thunder isn't something applicable to him due to a mythical amp. You can call it as outside of his norm if you like. That's fine.

I wasn't trying to prove anything, I was pointing out that my statement that most agree there was an amp involved is accurate. Not all mind you, but I can all but guarantee there are more people on KMC that have posted to say they believe he was than those that believe he wasn't.

Well good for you, feel free to not doubt it. I remember there were a couple of posters who said they believed Lightray could pull off his "insane" feats if he stopped holding back too. I myself DO doubt it...

I'm not just assuming that, I'm basing it on stuff.

OneDumbG0
^ Objection: bullsh1t. Originally posted by darthgoober
Yeah he did, he specifically said that Thor was more dangerous than he was in their previous encounter, and we all know that in that particular fight he was in the grips of Warrior Madness.

And I'm not saying that the vagueness does make it more reliable, I'm just pointing out that I'm not making the claim you think I am. Originally posted by OneDumbG0
The memory was distant. And Warlock's recollection of it was understated. He literally states as much: Adam couldn't recall just how powerful Thor was and was reminded painfully. Adam literally states that Thor is much quicker than he "remembers" and that he is even "more dangerous than remember." How hard is it for you to continue avoiding that all these so-called comparisons actually are compared to Warlock's "distant memory?" Pretty hard I'd imagine:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsSilverSurferAdamWarlock01Infi.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsSilverSurferAdamWarlock02.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsSilverSurferAdamWarlock03.jpg

darthgoober
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Objection: bullsh1t.
Yeah it can be explaned away just like the majority of statements ever made in comics, but it doesn't make the interpretation any less valid. You obviously don't trust Warlock's memory, I do.

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by darthgoober
Yeah it can be explaned away just like the majority of statements ever made in comics, but it doesn't make the interpretation any less valid. You obviously don't trust Warlock's memory, I do. Warlock doesn't even trust his own memory.

And ultimately, I take the story at face value. I also take people's theories at face value. Taking your theory at face value, for whatever reason, nobody mentions Thor's amp. Except for Surfer fans.

Also, apparently the story-arc is about how Thor receives two amps: (i) one from his insanity, and (ii) the second from the Power Gem. Like the entire story was: "zomg, Thor is so uber-ampd from his insanity -- which may be Warriors Madness even though Odin says it's not -- and now he's even more super-uber-amped when he gets the Power Gem!!!!11"

Yeah. I'm sure that's the exact outline of the story as envisioned: Thor is on a deranged rampage (but it's a dangerous one because of an off-panel amp -- not because he's simply unhinged) and gets even more dangerous when he gets the Power Gem (making his off-panel previous amp superfluous... and still off-panel).

Makes complete sense. thumb up

darthgoober
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Warlock doesn't even trust his own memory.

And ultimately, I take the story at face value. I also take people's theories at face value. Taking your theory at face value, for whatever reason, nobody mentions Thor's amp. Except for Surfer fans.

Also, apparently the story-arc is about how Thor receives two amps: (i) one from his insanity, and (ii) the second from the Power Gem. Like the entire story was: "zomg, Thor is so uber-ampd from his insanity -- which may be Warriors Madness even though Odin says it's not -- and now he's even more super-uber-amped when he gets the Power Gem!!!!11"

Yeah. I'm sure that's the exact outline of the story as envisioned: Thor is on a deranged rampage (but it's a dangerous one because of an off-panel amp -- not because he's simply unhinged) and gets even more dangerous when he gets the Power Gem (making his off-panel previous amp superfluous... and still off-panel).

Makes complete sense. thumb up
Warlock's hopeful that he's remembering wrong, big difference between that and actually doubting yourself.

And Bill(and argueably Warlock) you mean.

Glad you agree with the rest though big grin .

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by darthgoober
You're argueing opinion here. You believe he meant one thing, I believe he meant another.

It's a logical assumption. There was a clear difference between how Thor fought against Warlock and Him.

It doesn't really help your side that Warlock stated this right after Thor unleashed a giant wave of energy that knocked around Surfer/Warlock.

Originally posted by darthgoober
I wasn't trying to prove anything, I was pointing out that my statement that most agree there was an amp involved is accurate. Not all mind you, but I can all but guarantee there are more people on KMC that have posted to say they believe he was than those that believe he wasn't.

Well good for you, feel free to not doubt it. I remember there were a couple of posters who said they believed Lightray could pull off his "insane" feats if he stopped holding back too. I myself DO doubt it...

I'm not just assuming that, I'm basing it on stuff.

Question: What were you attempting to do by pointing out the majority of people believed an amp was involved?

I personally think you were trying to lend more credibility to your stance based on the fact that more people stood by it it but I want to hear your reasoning for bringing it up. I'm sure it was just a harmless point. yes

What stuff?

dmills
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus


3) During his fight with Him, Thor fought solely like a a brick, throwing only punches. During his fight with Warlock and Surfer, Thor fought like a God. Energy projection, flying and so on was in full swing. Which would explain why Warlock believed Thor was more dangerous than he remembered.



Set this in stone...

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by darthgoober
Warlock's hopeful that he's remembering wrong, big difference between that and actually doubting yourself.

And Bill(and argueably Warlock) you mean.

Glad you agree with the rest though big grin . That's exactly my point. He remembered wrong and was worried that he remembered wrong and was proven to have remembered wrong.

Does interpreting Bill's comment about "drawing strength from the madness = off-panel amp" mean that every other generic comment about "drawing strength from your _____ = off-panel amp"?

Spiderman gains an off-panel amp when he's drawing strength from his courage? Superman gains an off-panel amp when he's drawing strength from his love?

BRB must have received the biggest off-panel amp since he was beaten up twice-over and actually toppled Thor with four blows. These off-panel amps are amazingly powerful.

darthgoober
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
It's a logical assumption. There was a clear difference between how Thor fought against Warlock and Him.

It doesn't really help your side that Warlock stated this right after Thor unleashed a giant wave of energy that knocked around Surfer/Warlock.
So is mine. The difference is that you have to research their previous fight and FIND a way to interpret it your way. My interpretation seems a little more obvious to readers who don't have that earlier fight to check out in detail. At least IMO...



Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Question: What were you attempting to do by pointing out the majority of people believed an amp was involved?

I think you were trying to lend more credibility to your stance based on the fact that more believed in it but I want to hear your reasoning for bringing it up. I'm sure it was just a harmless point. yes

What stuff?
That the arc is in no way definitive proof of anything. I know there's no limit on how many people can be wrong about something, but in matters regarding interpretation numbers give us an idea as to which is the more obvious(and therefore more likely) interpretation.

darthgoober
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
That's exactly my point. He remembered wrong and was worried that he remembered wrong and was proven to have remembered wrong.

Does interpreting Bill's comment about "drawing strength from the madness = off-panel amp" mean that every other generic comment about "drawing strength from your _____ = off-panel amp"?

Spiderman gains an off-panel amp when he's drawing strength from his courage? Superman gains an off-panel amp when he's drawing strength from his love?

BRB must have received the biggest off-panel amp since he was beaten up twice-over and actually toppled Thor with four blows. These off-panel amps are amazingly powerful.
You think he remembered wrong, I think Thor was more powerful than he was the first time around.

Nope. I don't believe Thor was amped JUST because of Bill's statement, it's just one part of the whole package. My believe comes from Bill's statement, Warlock's statement(s), and the way Thor preformed against his peers throughout the arc.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by darthgoober
So is mine. The difference is that you have to research their previous fight and FIND a way to interpret it your way. My interpretation seems a little more obvious to readers who don't have that earlier fight to check out in detail. At least IMO...

What is exactly your assumption/interpretation?

That this Thor was more dangerous than the one Warlock fought previously based on his memory?

I don't have to find anything. It's fairly obvious to anybody who has read both fights. The simple fact that their first battle is mentioned and is the basis for Warlock's observation so much, means it nearly immediately becomes a key factor. At least if you're trying to understand what the writer was trying to convey with as much accuracy as possible. Starlin clearly read their first fight. We wouldn't be drawing from some foreign or unimportant source if we placed the first fight under our scrutiny.

Originally posted by darthgoober
That the arc is in no way definitive proof of anything. I know there's no limit on how many people can be wrong about something, but in matters regarding interpretation numbers give us an idea as to which is the more obvious(and therefore more likely) interpretation.

Except Thor can beat the shit out of his "peers" when his pissed.

You could have just said, "Yes, I'm doing exactly what you assumed I were."

I guess it's expected. You don't really have much of leg to stand on. Resorting to "numbers" make sense. I just hope you realize that a stance doesn't necessarily become more valid simple due to the fact that more people are behind it. Numbers =/= Validity. People are idiots. In this case, people are butt hurt idiots.

There was no amp.

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by darthgoober
You think he remembered wrong, I think Thor was more powerful than he was the first time around.

Nope. I don't believe Thor was amped JUST because of Bill's statement, it's just one part of the whole package. My believe comes from Bill's statement, Warlock's statement(s), and the way Thor preformed against his peers throughout the arc. If you're gonna try the whole "I'm-taking-everything-into-account," try taking into account that Warlock's own memory has been spotty in the past. That has been a part of his character.

And clearly BRB must have received a super off-panel amp when he toppled Thor in four blows after receiving two ass-whoopings himself. That is, if I take your theory at face value:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsBetaRayBillSilverSurfer05.jpg

Wait... and even more, when BRB ambushed the Infinity Watch later on, PG-less Drax and Maxam must have received super-duper off-panel amps too because they toppled this super off-panel amped BRB with a pair of punches!!!! See it's all right here:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Even%20More%20Random/BRB01.jpg

Wow! If I look hard enough, I can justify a whole truck-load of speculative off-panel amps!!! But we have to engage in this speculative bullsh1t, amirite? Otherwise PG-less Drax and Maxam two-shotting BRB is the biggest instance of PIS throughout all of Blood and Thunder and we can't accept such clear (still off-panel) PIS when we have a sh1tty speculative theory to manufacture! And crap, PG-less Drax and Maxam aren't that uber! Ya'll recognize?!

sam

darthgoober
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
What is exactly your assumption/interpretation?

That this Thor was more dangerous than the one Warlock fought previously based on his memory?

I don't have to find anything. It's fairly obvious to anybody who has read both fights. The simple fact that their first battle is mentioned and is the basis for Warlock's observation so much, means it nearly immediately becomes a key factor. At least if you're trying to understand what the writer was trying to convey with as much accuracy as possible. Starlin clearly read their first fight. We wouldn't be drawing from some foreign source if we used the first fight in our scrutiny.
That Thor was more powerful than he is while in Warrior Madness.

Anyone... really? Because I've read both fights, and I think Warlock was saying Thor's more powerful. And I can all but guarantee that others who've read both fights that think the same thing(I guess if you really want I can track down quotes of people saying so as long as you'll be willing to conceed the point afterwards).


Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Except Thor can beat the shit out of his "peers" when his pissed.

You could have just said, "Yes, I'm doing exactly what you assumed I were."

I guess it's expected. You don't really have much of leg to stand on. Resorting to "numbers" make sense. I just hope you realize that a stance doesn't necessarily become more valid simple due to the fact more behind it. Numbers =/= Validity. People are idiots. In this case, people are butt hurt idiots.

There was no amp.
So can Superman, Hulk, etc., etc., etc.

Again, were talking about a matter of interpretation. I could sit here at the computer all day going back and forth in a "Nuh Uh" "Uh huh" arguement about which interpretation is more valid and never make any headway, or I can point out that MOST people interpret an amp as being present to show that the arc isn't given much credit overall. I myself haven't debated with tLoM before and for all I know he's reasonable enough to accept that simple fact, so I figured I'd point it out to him.

Sure there was.

darthgoober
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
If you're gonna try the whole "I'm-taking-everything-into-account," try taking into account that Warlock's own memory has been spotty in the past. That has been a part of his character.

And clearly BRB must have received a super off-panel amp when he toppled Thor in four blows after receiving two ass-whoopings himself. That is, if I take your theory at face value:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsBetaRayBillSilverSurfer05.jpg

Wait... and even more, when BRB ambushed the Infinity Watch later on, PG-less Drax and Maxam must have received super-duper off-panel amps too because they toppled this super off-panel amped BRB with a pair of punches!!!! See it's all right here:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Even%20More%20Random/BRB01.jpg

Wow! If I look hard enough, I can justify a whole truck-load of speculative off-panel amps!!! But we have to engage in this speculative bullsh1t, amirite? Otherwise PG-less Drax and Maxam two-shotting BRB is the biggest instance of PIS throughout all of Blood and Thunder and we can't accept such clear (still off-panel) PIS when we have a sh1tty speculative theory to manufacture! And crap, PG-less Drax and Maxam aren't that uber! Ya'll recognize?!

sam
Yep it sure has and like I said before Warlock's statement can be explained away just like the majority of similar comments made in comics all the time, I myself disagree with you on it though.

You keep saying off panel amp, but Bill saying that Thor was drawing strength from his madness happened on panel, as did the interaction between Thor and Valkarie that prompted the statement.

If you want to believe all that stuff feel free, I myself am trying to maintain a reasonable stance on the matter.

OneDumbG0
^ So you have completely legitimate explanations for both of those ambiguous statements and still can't help but conclude your way. Nice.

And BRB enjoying a super off-panel amp and PG-less Drax and Maxam enjoying a super-duper off panel amp is the only legitimate conclusion you can draw from your "reasonable stance" that Thor enjoyed an amp.

We're not completely descending into absurdity for the sake of wishful speculation at all. thumb up

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by darthgoober
That Thor was more powerful than he is while in Warrior Madness.

Anyone... really? Because I've read both fights, and I think Warlock was saying Thor's more powerful. And I can all but guarantee that others who've read both fights that think the same thing(I guess if you really want I can track down quotes of people saying so as long as you'll be willing to conceed the point afterwards).

Do you not understand that Thor fought as if he indeed was more powerful in his fight with Warlock? That doesn't mean he actually is more powerful in reality. He is simply much more than a brick. I thought I had I explained this to you. In his fight with Him, Thor fought like the Hulk. In his fight against Warlock, Thor was unleashing waves of energy that tossed them around like rag-dolls and was a walking storm. Interestingly -not really- enough, said statement was made directly after Thor unleashing a wave of energy that knocked around Warlock and Surfer.

Of course Thor would seem more powerful to Warlock who has a more than likely bad/hazy recollection of Thor from years ago.

Danger =/= Power by the way

Concede what? That a bunch of Cosmic Power fans would love to have Blood and Thunder explained away with some vague amp? Sure. Why not.

You seem to think that I give a shit how many people agree with you or that this somehow changes or invalidates my stance. Hint: It doesn't.

Numbers =/= Validity

Originally posted by darthgoober
So can Superman, Hulk, etc., etc., etc.

Again, were talking about a matter of interpretation. I could sit here at the computer all day going back and forth in a "Nuh Uh" "Uh huh" arguement about which interpretation is more valid and never make any headway, or I can point out that MOST people interpret an amp as being present to show that the arc isn't given much credit overall. I myself haven't debated with tLoM before and for all I know he's reasonable enough to accept that simple fact, so I figured I'd point it out to him.
http://www.moviesonline.ca/AdvHTML_Upload/silverSurfer.gif

If you can accept them doing so, then what's the beef with Thor doing the same? Why does there have to be some sort of amp present when there was no mention of one? I mean, other than the fact that it would explain Surfer being on the receiving end of the Thor beat downs. Waitaminute! Could that possibly, maybe, probably, likely, without a doubt be the only reason your dragging on with this baseless stance? Could it be that your simply -dare I say it- butt-hurt?

darthgoober
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ So you have completely legitimate explanations for both of those ambiguous statements and still can't help but conclude your way. Nice.

And BRB enjoying a super off-panel amp and PG-less Drax and Maxam enjoying a super-duper off panel amp is the only legitimate conclusion you can draw from your "reasonable stance" that Thor enjoyed an amp.

We're not completely descending into absurdity for the sake of wishful speculation at all. thumb up
Huh?

Hey if you want to believe they were amped go ahead, I myself figure they took it to Thor for the same reason that Masterson momentarily took it to Thanos... for the sake of a good story.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Heh.

--------------------------

This is getting...boring.

darthgoober
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Do you not understand that Thor fought as if he indeed as more powerful in his fight with Warlock? That doesn't mean he actually is more powerful in reality. He is simply much more than a brick. I thought I had I explained this to you. In his fight with Him, Thor fought like the Hulk. In his fight against Warlock, Thor was unleashing waves of energy that tossed them around like rag-dolls and was a walking storm. Interestingly -not really- enough, said statement was made directly after Thor unleashing a wave of energy that knocked around Warlock and Surfer.

Of course Thor would seem more powerful to Warlock who has a more than likely bad/hazy recollection of Thor from years ago.

Yeah you have a valid interpretation there, so do I.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Danger =/= Power by the way
Not necessarily, but it's the most obvious interpretation for someone who never read the first fight.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Concede what? That a bunch of Cosmic Power fans would love to have Blood and Thunder explained away with some vague amp? Sure. Why not.
No, that you were wrong in saying your interpretation of Warlock's statement is the obvious one to anyone who'd read both fights.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
You seem to think that I give a shit how many people agree with you or that this somehow changes or invalidates my stance. Hint: It doesn't.
And you seem to think that your refusal to accept what so many consider to be obvious somehow changes or invalidates my stance... and it doesn't.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Numbers =/= Validity
In regards to interpretation, absolutely.


Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
http://www.moviesonline.ca/AdvHTML_Upload/silverSurfer.gif

If you can accept them doing so, then what's the beef with Thor doing the same? Why does there have to be some sort of amp present when there was no mention of one? I mean, other than the fact that it would explain Surfer being on the receiving end of the Thor beat downs. Waitaminute! Could that possibly, maybe, probably, likely, without a doubt be the only reason your dragging on with this baseless stance? Could it be that your simply -dare I say it- butt-hurt?
What makes you think I accept them doing so? I don't accept ANY character steamrolling someone who's been portrayed as a peer as definitive proof of how a fight between the two should go down. Hell after the Bill/Surfer fight in Godhunter I was one of(if not THE) first Surfer fan to step forward and say that Bill shouldn't have been beaten that easily and that the fight should have gone down far differently.

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by darthgoober
Huh?

Hey if you want to believe they were amped go ahead, I myself figure they took it to Thor for the same reason that Masterson momentarily took it to Thanos... for the sake of a good story. Huh.

So their respective fights couldn't actually be them fighting within their normal performance levels, i.e., a hurt and desperate BRB toppling a non-amped vicious Thor and PG-less Drax and Maxam toppling a non-super amped BRB with punches. Which only makes sense if Thor wasn't amped and was just unhinged. Which couldn't possibly be the case... I mean, that ambiguous off-panel amp of Thor's was so clearly evident, amirite?

darthgoober
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Huh.

So their respective fights couldn't actually be them fighting within their normal performance levels, i.e., a hurt and desperate BRB toppling a non-amped vicious Thor and PG-less Drax and Maxam toppling a non-super amped BRB with punches. Which only makes sense if Thor wasn't amped and was just unhinged. Which couldn't possibly be the case... I mean, that ambiguous off-panel amp of Thor's was so clearly evident, amirite?
I don't get what you were saying with the line part of your previous post. I think you left out a word or something.

Oh they could have been at normal levels, but Thor was amped IMO(for reason's I've already stated).

OneDumbG0
^ It doesn't make sense because it logically flows from the premise that Thor enjoyed an amp during Blood and Thunder. That's the point. The entire storyline and several other fights become absurd taking your premise at face value.

And normal BRB both exhausted and battered, toppled an amped Thor in four shots? No. If Thor was indeed amped, that was the biggest moment of PIS during the whole thing. Accordingly, some off-panel super amp for BRB was in play if Thor's ambiguous off-panel amp is so clearly evident.

Sr J-Bieb
Thor loses.

darthgoober
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ It doesn't make sense because it logically flows from the premise that Thor enjoyed an amp during Blood and Thunder. That's the point. The entire storyline and several other fights become absurd taking your premise at face value.

And normal BRB both exhausted and battered, toppled an amped Thor in four shots? No. If Thor was indeed amped, that was the biggest moment of PIS during the whole thing. Accordingly, some off-panel super amp for BRB was in play if Thor's ambiguous off-panel amp is so clearly evident.
And it doesn't make sense that Spiderman was able to rock Thanos w/IG with a kick, but it happened. Is the only possible explanation in your opinion that Spiderman received a massive amp?

And I don't have any problem saying that an amped Thor shouldn't be put down that easy, but I'd rather write off that one instance that allowed for Bill to point out that Thor was drawing strength from his madness than damn near every other fight in the arc where he was taking down his peers with the greatest of ease.

OneDumbG0
^ No. Is the only possible explanation in your opinion on Thor beating up Warlock and Surfer that Thor received a massive amp off-panel?

Right. You're gonna write off that instance because it's utterly dispositive of your theory that Thor was amped. How convenient. BRB toppling Thor isn't completely an indication that Thor wasn't operating at some massively amped level. And this maneuver of your's doesn't completely undermine the viability of your entire underlying premise!

thumb up

darthgoober
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ No. Is the only possible explanation in your opinion on Thor beating up Warlock and Surfer that Thor received a massive amp off-panel?

Right. You're gonna write off that instance because it's utterly dispositive of your theory that Thor was amped. How convenient. BRB toppling Thor isn't completely an indication that Thor wasn't operating at some massively amped level. And this maneuver of your's doesn't completely undermine the viability of your entire underlying premise!

thumb up
In the manner he did... absolutely(outside of PIS of course). And again, Bill's statement and the instance that prompted it both happened on panel.

Hey sometimes you just have to throw some things out that don't fit with the characters, it's just the way it is. Do you honestly accept EVERY interaction between characters as being legit as every other one? If so, then you can look at the fact that at his normal power levels Thor said a single warning blast from Surfer would have killed him while in Blood and Thunder Thor was all but laughing off Surfer's blasts as an indication that Thor was amped for the arc.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by darthgoober
Not necessarily, but it's the most obvious interpretation for someone who never read the first fight.

Debatable. Of course I read the first fight before I read the second so I can't fairly comment on this.

Originally posted by darthgoober
No, that you were wrong in saying your interpretation of Warlock's statement is the obvious one to anyone who'd read both fights.

schmoll Fine. It's obvious to anyone who isn't trying to explain away Surfer and co's performance.

I don't see how it isn't fairly obvious. In the first fight, Thor fights purely like a brick. You could trade him in for an intelligent, and skilled Hulk, and there wouldn't be any difference. In the second fight, Thor was actually fighting like a God. There a distinct difference between how Thor fought in those two fights.

Originally posted by darthgoober
And you seem to think that your refusal to accept what so many consider to be obvious somehow changes or invalidates my stance... and it doesn't.

In regards to interpretation, absolutely.

Since it's obvious and you clearly have so many intelligent peers -not butt hurt cosmic fans- on your side would you please care to explain to me what I'm missing?

That Warlock's comment meant to indicate that the Blood and Thunder Thor was more powerful than a blood crazed Thor?

I don't see how you can prove that in anyway. You can prove that the Blood and Thunder Thor that fought Warlock seemed to be was more powerful than the version that Him fought.

I'm assuming your agreeing with me there.

Originally posted by darthgoober
What makes you think I accept them doing so? I don't accept ANY character steamrolling someone who's been portrayed as a peer as definitive proof of how a fight between the two should go down. Hell after the Bill/Surfer fight in Godhunter I was one of(if not THE) first Surfer fan to step forward and say that Bill shouldn't have been beaten that easily and that the fight should have gone down far differently.

It thought you weren't even trying anymore.

I don't have a problem with what Thor did however. Besides the fact that I love high end showings for Thor, and think that he was perfectly capable of accomplishing what he did in Blood and Thunder under his own power. Why do I care that **** like Bran scream PIS? Can't accept it, then don't debate in thread regarding the subject.

I'm fine with the Bill/Surfer fight. Surfer should be slightly more powerful than Bill. He also caught Bill off guard with the board to the back of the head/neck, then followed up with blows to the face. Bill was matching him before that in my opinion. I'd have liked for Bill too put up more of a fight.

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by darthgoober
In the manner he did... absolutely(outside of PIS of course). And again, Bill's statement and the instance that prompted it both happened on panel.Butt-hurt =/= off-panel amp. I've heard idiots say everything from "it was Warriors Madness amp" when it states on-panel it wasn't Warriors Madness. I've seen idiots state "Thor one-shotted Surfer, it must be PIS" when Thor laid into Surfer not a minute prior. BRB had already fought Thor 1v1 prior to the bout he had when Surfer joined in. Not a single exclamation of Thor's ampage. Surfer doesn't warn Warlock about this astounding ampage when they fight together. Acting like BRB's statement necessarily flowed from Thor's off-panel amp is about as stupid as a butt-hurt Darkseid fan arguing that "Superman drew strength from his courage" = unfair amp or pure PIS. Originally posted by darthgoober
Hey sometimes you just have to throw some things out that don't fit with the characters, it's just the way it is. Do you honestly accept EVERY interaction between characters as being legit as every other one? If so, then you can look at the fact that at his normal power levels Thor said a single warning blast from Surfer would have killed him while in Blood and Thunder Thor was all but laughing off Surfer's blasts as an indication that Thor was amped for the arc. And sometimes you have to cut off the nose to spite the face. Especially when you're butt-hurt. Thor wasn't laughing off Surfer's blasts. Re-read the fight. And he's been hit by Surfer's blasts before in other fights and wasn't slayed:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsSilverSurfer03.jpg

Let me guess. Another off-panel amp.

illadelph12
In my humble opinion Blood & Thunder gets touted and misconstrued far too often. There were circumstances in that arc that Thor can't willingly reproduce. For the record, Thor was apeshit crazy in that arc due to years of mystical manipulation of his mind and soul by Odin, so much so that his insanity took on a form and identity of it's own (Valkyrie) and actually had sex with Thor. He was so crazy he f*cked a figment of his imagination man. In my opinion, anyone who tries to use Blood & Thunder as an example of what Thor is capable of under his own power is deluded. The whole premise of that arc was that Thor had been driven near irreparably insane due to the manipulations of his soul by Odin. Context people.

Smh...

darthgoober
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Debatable. Of course I read the first fight before I read the second so I can't fairly comment on this.
Cool.



Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
schmoll Fine. It's obvious to anyone who isn't trying to explain away Surfer and co's performance.

I don't see how it isn't fairly obvious. In the first fight, Thor fights purely like a brick. You could trade him in for an intelligent, and skilled Hulk, and there wouldn't be any difference. In the second fight, Thor was actually fighting like a God. There a distinct difference between how Thor fought in those two fights.
So only the fanboys disagree with your interpretation huh? You do realize that your statement could easily be rebutted with something to the effect of "only people with a hard on for Thor believe Warlock meant anything other than that Thor was more powerful" right?

Yeah he does fight differently, and that MIGHT be what Warlock was talking about, but IMO he was saying Thor was more powerful.



Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Since it's obvious and you clearly have so many intelligent peers -not butt hurt cosmic fans- on your side would you please care to explain to me what I'm missing?

That Warlock's comment meant to indicate that the Blood and Thunder Thor was more powerful than a blood crazed Thor?

I don't see how you can prove that in anyway. You can prove that the Blood and Thunder Thor that fought Warlock seemed to be was more powerful than the version that Him fought.

I'm assuming your agreeing with me there.
Simple, Thor was easily taking out people far easier than he should be capable of plus Bill and Warlock's statements. It may not be enough to convince you, but that doesn't mean it's not enough to convince others.

I can't prove my interpretation of Warlock's statement anymore than you can prove yours.

Agreeing with you on what? I'm saying that numbers ARE valid in figuring out which is the more obvious interpretation, I thought you were saying differently?



Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
It thought you weren't even trying anymore.

I don't have a problem with what Thor did however. Besides the fact that I love high end showings for Thor, and think that he was perfectly capable of accomplishing what he did in Blood and Thunder under his own power. Why do I care that **** like Bran scream PIS? Can't accept it, then don't debate in thread regarding the subject.

I'm fine with the Bill/Surfer fight. Surfer should be slightly more powerful than Bill. He also caught Bill off guard with the board to the back of the head/neck, then followed up with blows to the face. Bill was matching him before that in my opinion. I'd have liked for Bill too put up more of a fight.
Trying what?

Fraid it doesn't work like that. See the whole "no PIS" thing is a forum rule so people who argue it aren't the one's who need to find a new subject to debate, the people who refuse to discuss the concept are.

Well I'm not, because the two are too close in power for Bill to end up in a fetal position so quickly. Regardless though, I was just pointing out that I'm not catering to a double standard like you thought.

darthgoober
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Butt-hurt =/= off-panel amp. I've heard idiots say everything from "it was Warriors Madness amp" when it states on-panel it wasn't Warriors Madness. I've seen idiots state "Thor one-shotted Surfer, it must be PIS" when Thor laid into Surfer not a minute prior. BRB had already fought Thor 1v1 prior to the bout he had when Surfer joined in. Not a single exclamation of Thor's ampage. Surfer doesn't warn Warlock about this astounding ampage when they fight together. Acting like BRB's statement necessarily flowed from Thor's off-panel amp is about as stupid as a butt-hurt Darkseid fan arguing that "Superman drew strength from his courage" = unfair amp or pure PIS.
I get it ODG, you don't believe he was amped an nothing that's currently in existence will convince you otherwise. I was never trying to convince you, just answer your questions in regards to why I believe he was ampled.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
And sometimes you have to cut off the nose to spite the face. Especially when you're butt-hurt. Thor wasn't laughing off Surfer's blasts. Re-read the fight. And he's been hit by Surfer's blasts before in other fights and wasn't slayed:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsSilverSurfer03.jpg

Let me guess. Another off-panel amp.

From what I remember Thor mocked his blasts and called them "feeble", that's all but laughing IMO.

Nope not an amp for Thor, just Surfer from his inconsistant depowered period.

Stoic
Originally posted by illadelph12
In my humble opinion Blood & Thunder gets touted and misconstrued far too often. There were circumstances in that arc that Thor can't willingly reproduce. For the record, Thor was apeshit crazy in that arc due to years of mystical manipulation of his mind and soul by Odin, so much so that his insanity took on a form and identity of it's own (Valkyrie) and actually had sex with Thor. He was so crazy he f*cked a figment of his imagination man. In my opinion, anyone who tries to use Blood & Thunder as an example of what Thor is capable of under his own power is deluded. The whole premise of that arc was that Thor had been driven near irreparably insane due to the manipulations of his soul by Odin. Context people.

Smh...


I agree with you to an extant, but again it was under his own power. it has been stated many times that Thor can achieve 10x his base strength, if he was in a warriors madness mental state. this fact can not be discounted. Which is why in this scenario, Thor would whoop this measly duo.

darthgoober
Originally posted by Stoic
I agree with you to an extant, but again it was under his own power. it has been stated many times that Thor can achieve 10x his base strength, if he was in a warriors madness mental state. this fact can not be discounted. Which is why in this scenario, Thor would whoop this measly duo.
Not really. It's only been stated once(at least to my knowledge) that it was possible for him to reach 10x strength, and in the issue it was mentioned Thor wasn't able to pull it off successfully.

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