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Ooooh.

i love your use of pictures in your OP but i dont recognize most of the WS guys, could you possibly list their names?

Agent Orange is my favourite! I love that dude. <3


Team X wins.

Agent Orange
Condition Red (Monarchy version)
Midnighter
Nemesis
Cybernary
Backlash

Well really if you don't know enough to recognize them on sight, do you really know enough to make an educated hypothesis as to the outcome of a conflict between the two pictured factions?

Condition Red
Agent Orange
Midnighter
Nemisis
Backlash
Cybernary

That's Caleb, BTW/

I think team Wildstorm takes the win here.

I wonder if Nemesis blades could cut through Adimantium... Hmmm.

Is this before or after the loss of the Gen Factor for Backlash?

Originally posted by Prep-Man
I wonder if Nemesis blades could cut through Adimantium... Hmmm.

I am operating under the assumption they could. They are after all supposed to be able to cut through anything, and adamantium has been damaged before.

before. I want to use standard BL here.

I have to go with Wildstorm then. I don't see any reason they even need Agent Orange or Condition Red really.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
I wonder if Nemesis blades could cut through Adimantium... Hmmm.

Doubt it. They are basically the The Onyx Sword (which coincidently is used by Marvel's Nemisis) which Wolverine has gone up against before.

Wildstorm wins. Nemesis is the deal breaker.

I don't know about that. Sure, it's impressive she fought Majestic... but only so long as you don't look at the context. The only reason that those fights worked is because Majestic didn't use any of his extensive super speed... and under the same stips you could pretty much plug all of these characters into those fights with similar results. He jobbed.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I don't know about that. Sure, it's impressive she fought Majestic... but only so long as you don't look at the context. The only reason that those fights worked is because Majestic didn't use any of his extensive super speed... and under the same stips you could pretty much plug all of these characters into those fights with similar results. He jobbed.

No one on the X team could have even pierced his skin with their standard gear.

Originally posted by Lunacyde
No one on the X team could have even pierced his skin with their standard gear.

Wolverine's cut Thor, Nefaria and even Elder God's with his claws. He would cut Majestic, X-23 could as well and so would anyone with Adamantium weaponry.

Originally posted by Lunacyde
Well really if you don't know enough to recognize them on sight, do you really know enough to make an educated hypothesis as to the outcome of a conflict between the two pictured factions? that could have something to do with why i didnt. but i like to learn.

Experience doesn't count for all that much. Grifter has beaten Backlash in h2h, despite the fact that Backlash is couple thousand years old Kherubim warrior. Skill is skill.

Wolverine has beaten the Millennia old Angle of Death dozens if not hundreds of times.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Like I said though - Wolverine has already triumphed over someone with several Millennia of combat experience.

Even Zealot has been up staged by Agent Orange. He is - what? - a class 5-10 FBI cyborg, not a Millennia old super ninja and he is the one who killed the Coda's elite super assassin the Grand Sarin (who has beat Zealot), and has beat down Grifter twice.

Like I said.

Originally posted by "Id"
Like I said.

I've told you why it doesn't mater in Marvel and in Wildstorm... you haven't told me why it does.

Midnighter's combat computers come up with an average of 4 winning scenarios against nobody fodder by his own admission and there are on panel examples of it coming up with zero wins already.... it's not as though Zealot edging him out is a huge check mark in the experience category...

Caleb definitely has better tech than any of the MU.

Midnighter/Zealot are basically even as stated by the writer. Both are quite impressive, IMO.

Caleb has weapons to strip away your spirit and black hole bullets.

Yeah.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
You are trying to make a case that experienced is a significant factor so you need to come up with something better than fact that Zealot edged out Midnighter in a fight. Grifter stalemated Midnighter the last time they fought too... that's what happens when he fights real characters.

I cant make a better case, when the comic spoon feeds you why experience is heavily emphasized in actual combat. If that is not enough to sell my point to consider, than I am clearly wasting my time with you.

As much as I would root for Nemesis, I don't think her team can pull this one out.

Team Wildstorm.. There's just no counter to BL's misting...

His mist form is a great tool for survivability, but I don't think it'll mean much against many of the guys here.

Wolverine is a good example.

Def. but its also an excellent offensive abilities like say he can very well stay in mist form and fight that way or mist and di-mist an opponent inside someone for KO.. He pretty much was able or did this in his pre-kherubim days..

It should still work on Wolverine as well, it work on Dane w/ symbiotes but if it does not, its a good way to separate Wolverine's flesh from his adamantium bones.. His pretty much uber for a meta with CIS off..

Wildstorm

Originally posted by Ambient
. His pretty much uber for a meta with CIS off..
cis is still on...........

Originally posted by Lord_Talron
that could have something to do with why i didnt. but i like to learn.

Good. Sorry if you took what I was saying the wrong way.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Like I said though - Wolverine has already triumphed over someone with several Millennia of combat experience.

Even Zealot has been up staged by Agent Orange. He is - what? - a class 5-10 FBI cyborg, not a Millennia old super ninja and he is the one who killed the Coda's elite super assassin the Grand Sarin (who has beat Zealot), and has beat down Grifter twice.

Yes, because in comics things happen for the sake of story. If you take the story element out of it though you are left with what should happen a majority of times when they fight. Wolverine has been knocked out by Daredevil with a strike to the throat. That's as relevent to this fight as AO upstaging Zealot. ABC logic....useful tool sometimes, but you can't rely on it.

just becuase someone more experienced does not make them a better fighter. I find this funny that you assume she better because she more experienced then wolverine dispite the fact he beaten numerous individuals with 1000's of years of experiences.

Originally posted by Lunacyde
Wolverine has been knocked out by Daredevil with a strike to the throat.
written by ennis and is proven to be pis. It not the same thing at all.

Originally posted by Lunacyde
Yes, because in comics things happen for the sake of story. If you take the story element out of it though you are left with what should happen a majority of times when they fight. Wolverine has been knocked out by Daredevil with a strike to the throat. That's as relevent to this fight as AO upstaging Zealot. ABC logic....useful tool sometimes, but you can't rely on it.

Like Battlehammer said, DD knocked out Wolverine (actually knocked down... but whatever) in a Garth Ennis comic. That example isn't as relevant as AO upstaging Zealot... or even close to it. Ennis does his level best to make Wolverine look stupid at every oppertunity, it is just one of several PIS examples of Ennis' Wolverine looking stupid and has no actually relevance to any Wolverine discussion.

Team Wildstorm wins. Team Marvel lacks versatility.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Like Battlehammer said, DD knocked out Wolverine (actually knocked down... but whatever) in a Garth Ennis comic. That example isn't as relevant as AO upstaging Zealot... or even close to it. Ennis does his level best to make Wolverine look stupid at every oppertunity, it is just one of several PIS examples of Ennis' Wolverine looking stupid and has no actually relevance to any Wolverine discussion.

So all fights by Wildstorm characters are legitimate but not Wolverine's? Caught you at last. biscuits

Provide on-panel evidence of Midnighter saying he can only come up with an average of 4 winning scenarios per fight.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Like Battlehammer said, DD knocked out Wolverine (actually knocked down... but whatever) in a Garth Ennis comic. That example isn't as relevant as AO upstaging Zealot... or even close to it. Ennis does his level best to make Wolverine look stupid at every oppertunity, it is just one of several PIS examples of Ennis' Wolverine looking stupid and has no actually relevance to any Wolverine discussion.

Pardon my over-generalizations, but it seems to me that a number of unspecified Wolverine fans like to hold glaring double standards. They like to quote his years of battle experience against lesser experienced opponents, but when the battle shifts to the point where he himself is the less- experienced fighter they demand that experience has no relevance at all. Whether or not he has beaten characters with more experience than him doesn't matter either because those characters =/= The characters in this thread. Just because Wolverine has beaten characters with more experience than him doesn't mean he can beat all characters with more experience than him, or even a majority. What a bold fallacy you are trying to perpetuate. We are also not merely talking about years of experience, but also years of some of the most impressive and intense training in all of comics.

Also as in most cases the same Wolverine fans continue to demand we use only the high-end showings of Wolverine completely disregarding any low showings, while also bringing up low-end showings of the characters they are arguing against. Wolverine fans also like to deny any time their character doesn't do well as poor writing or PIS.

It's getting ridiculous, I would ask you to refrain from your blatant double standards.

Originally posted by Lunacyde
Pardon my over-generalizations, but it seems to me that a number of unspecified Wolverine fans like to hold glaring double standards. They like to quote his years of battle experience against lesser experienced opponents, but when the battle shifts to the point where he himself is the less- experienced fighter they demand that experience has no relevance at all. Whether or not he has beaten characters with more experience than him doesn't matter either because those characters =/= The characters in this thread. Just because Wolverine has beaten characters with more experience than him doesn't mean he can beat all characters with more experience than him, or even a majority. What a bold fallacy you are trying to perpetuate. We are also not merely talking about years of experience, but also years of some of the most impressive and intense training in all of comics.

Also as in most cases the same Wolverine fans continue to demand we use only the high-end showings of Wolverine completely disregarding any low showings, while also bringing up low-end showings of the characters they are arguing against. Wolverine fans also like to deny any time their character doesn't do well as poor writing or PIS.

It's getting ridiculous, I would ask you to refrain from your blatant double standards.



Please. There is no double standard, you are citing references made by a specific writer where the entire purpose was to make the character look foolish... and you are shocked and insulted to find out that such examples hold no relevance? Seriously? You don't see why it doesn't hold any water? There is no double standard. There can't be a double standard. There are no equivalent examples in the publication history of any of the other characters in this thread, with the dredge you are basing your opinions on for Wolverine. No one has written Zealot with the solo purpose of making her look stupid, and even if they did I would have the sense not to bring it up. The closest thing to the bull shit examples you are bringing up that any of the Wildstorm characters having is Kev killing the Authority... and no one every brings up that as serious point, and yet virtually every Wolverine thread someone cites the same example of Daredevil throat punching Wolverine in an Ennis comic. You should be EMBARRASSED that you even brought up such an example.

Experience doesn't matter. It is a universal truth in comicdom. You can't act like this is just an isolated Wolverine argument as much as you'd like but anyone who as spent any amount of time on this - or any comic book - forum, knows better. Thor isn't as skilled as Wolverine. Hercules isn't as skilled as Captain America. Wolverine isn't as skilled as the Mandarin. Majestic isn't as skilled as Grifter. Wonder Woman isn't as skilled as Batman. Experience is a not a significant factor, it never has been, pretending that it is in this case is asinine.

It wasn't a serious point that Wolverine should actually lose to DD....you clearly missed my entire point....which was to say for the sake of story (or writers wishes) characters can be made to do anything. I was trying to show the difference between comics (where the writer can make whatever he wishes happen) and a forum battle where things play out quite differently.

Originally posted by Lunacyde
It wasn't a serious point that Wolverine should actually lose to DD....you clearly missed my entire point....which was to say for the sake of story (or writers wishes) characters can be made to do anything. I was trying to show the difference between comics (where the writer can make whatever he wishes happen) and a forum battle where things play out quite differently.

What you were trying to do was draw parallels between Agent Orange beating the Grand Sarin and the absolute bottom of the barrel gutter filth of low ball Wolverine PIS showings which is DD long punching him in the throat... and no such parallels exist.

Grand Sarin was in half a dozen issues, all written by the same author, she beat Zealot and was subsequently killed by Agent Orange... and Joe Casey wasn't trying to make anyone look stupid.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
What you were trying to do was draw parallels between Agent Orange beating the Grand Sarin and the absolute bottom of the barrel gutter filth of low ball Wolverine PIS showings which is DD long punching him in the throat... and no such parallels exist.

Grand Sarin was in half a dozen issues, all written by the same author, she beat Zealot and was subsequently killed by Agent Orange... and Joe Casey wasn't trying to make anyone look stupid.
ownage is all that comes to mind after reading this post.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin


Please. There is no double standard, you are citing references made by a specific writer where the entire purpose was to make the character look foolish... and you are shocked and insulted to find out that such examples hold no relevance? Seriously? You don't see why it doesn't hold any water? There is no double standard. There can't be a double standard. There are no equivalent examples in the publication history of any of the other characters in this thread, with the dredge you are basing your opinions on for Wolverine. No one has written Zealot with the solo purpose of making her look stupid, and even if they did I would have the sense not to bring it up. The closest thing to the bull shit examples you are bringing up that any of the Wildstorm characters having is Kev killing the Authority... and no one every brings up that as serious point, and yet virtually every Wolverine thread someone cites the same example of Daredevil throat punching Wolverine in an Ennis comic. You should be EMBARRASSED that you even brought up such an example.

Experience doesn't matter. It is a universal truth in comicdom. You can't act like this is just an isolated Wolverine argument as much as you'd like but anyone who as spent any amount of time on this - or any comic book - forum, knows better. Thor isn't as skilled as Wolverine. Hercules isn't as skilled as Captain America. Wolverine isn't as skilled as the Mandarin. Majestic isn't as skilled as Grifter. Wonder Woman isn't as skilled as Batman. Experience is a not a significant factor, it never has been, pretending that it is in this case is asinine.

Not to mention Ennis himself has stated he hates characters who have powers if not mistaken.

Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
Team Wildstorm wins. Team Marvel lacks versatility.



So all fights by Wildstorm characters are legitimate but not Wolverine's? Caught you at last. biscuits

Provide on-panel evidence of Midnighter saying he can only come up with an average of 4 winning scenarios per fight.

Me thinks Caleb will be highly effective.

Originally posted by Ambient
Def. but its also an excellent offensive abilities like say he can very well stay in mist form and fight that way or mist and di-mist an opponent inside someone for KO.. He pretty much was able or did this in his pre-kherubim days..

It should still work on Wolverine as well, it work on Dane w/ symbiotes but if it does not, its a good way to separate Wolverine's flesh from his adamantium bones.. His pretty much uber for a meta with CIS off..
His ability is formidable, but dugan said it already. CIS is still on.
Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
Team Wildstorm wins. Team Marvel lacks versatility.

I agree that Wildstorm is more versatile, but I don't think their versatility will help in this battle. For example, Caleb's teleportation is useless here. What elements, specifically, do you mean?
Originally posted by Prep-Man
Me thinks Caleb will be highly effective.
It is possible I've missed some Caleb appearances, but I actually see him as a weak link here. All I've seen him do is shoot generic lasers and use a spirit gun that apparently only works on spirits inhabiting other people's bodies.

Experience does factor in, especially with characters that make reference of it in their own comic. Its one of the key turning points as to why Zeolat schools Grifter.

Originally posted by Ambient
Team Wildstorm.. There's just no counter to BL's misting...

You also have Nemesis caring flash grenades that can lock into a specific genetic sequence......ouch.

You guys raise some interesting points about the versatility of Wildstorm, but I must reiterate that it won't apply here. To my knowledge, Nemesis has only used the genetic concussion grenades once; even then, the grenades only targeted male Kherans. It would be in violation of the standard equipment clause to allot her those.

Most of Team Wildstorm's "ace in the holes" aren't legal under standard forum rules. We must keep this in mind.

Replace Midnighter with Holden Carver.

Originally posted by dmills
Replace Midnighter with Holden Carver.

That sounds even worse.

Just DC/Wilstorm here.

Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
That sounds even worse. Why?

Originally posted by dmills
Why?

By default Holden will give back as good as he gets.

Oh ok. Duh! You're saying it'll be worse for weapon x lol.

I was thinking along the lines of him being able to take care of the Logan problem. Midnighter may not be able to heal quickly enough to.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
What you were trying to do was draw parallels between Agent Orange beating the Grand Sarin and the absolute bottom of the barrel gutter filth of low ball Wolverine PIS showings which is DD long punching him in the throat... and no such parallels exist.

Grand Sarin was in half a dozen issues, all written by the same author, she beat Zealot and was subsequently killed by Agent Orange... and Joe Casey wasn't trying to make anyone look stupid.

No. The parallel I was drawing was that for whatever reason (Story in Zealot's case, Writer's dislike of the character in Wolverines) both characters lost to characters who were technically below them. If matched up in a Forum fight where no plot/writing is involved neither of them would have lost those matches. Hence the flawed reasoning behind your ABC logic.

Originally posted by dmills
I was thinking along the lines of him being able to take care of the Logan problem. Midnighter may not be able to heal quickly enough to.
This is what makes me side with Team X honestly. Wolverine is a fairly big problem for Wildstorm's team. Laura as well. With clever use of shields, Nemesis would fair much better against Wolverine than Midnighter; however, I don't see her beating him either.

I really think Midnighter can go toe to toe with Wolvie. Even make it an even split or edge to Mids.

For the record so do I. However Carver will help to cut through the crap that the Logan fans will pull. They'll say he -Midnighter- can't recover fast enough from the damage Logan can dish out.

Originally posted by dmills
For the record so do I. However Carver will help to cut through the crap that the Logan fans will pull. They'll say he -Midnighter- can't recover fast enough from the damage Logan can dish out.

Is Carver apart of the regular WS verse?

Originally posted by Prep-Man
I really think Midnighter can go toe to toe with Wolvie. Even make it an even split or edge to Mids.
I don't he damage soak to high. They relatively mirror images of eachother in many ways physically, but wolverine has vastly superior damage soak in which Midnighter standard equiptment which is mostly blunted weapons would have hell of a time overcomming espcially before Wolverine stabs the shit out of him.

Originally posted by dmills
They'll say he -Midnighter- can't recover fast enough from the damage Logan can dish out.
......by crap do you mean facts? Midnigher damage soak is not anything closes to Wolverines fact. Wolverine weapon out put is great, having the ability to cut limbs off, huge chunks of his body ect, while midnighters very limited in many ways for how much damage he can produce with each attack.

I think Mids will keep his distance for sure. His stamina is also crazy. Fighting with Zealot for hours. And Zealot is definitely Wolvie level.

BTW, Cyberanry is a beast. She's capable of taking anyone down on the Weapon X side.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
I think Mids will keep his distance for sure. His stamina is also crazy. Fighting with Zealot for hours. And Zealot is definitely Wolvie level.
How will he keep his distances? He fights in melee.


But she does not posses any of his damage soak. It not that Mid Nighter won't give him a big fight, but wolverine level of damage soak is on a completely different level and his weapon offensive abilities are far greater then midnighters in damage output. He be doing more damage with every attakc he lands, while be able to wistand vastly more damage then mid nighter.

also midnighter stamina isent closes to wolverines. Wolverien has fought a days straight before.

thats not to say in anyway that midnighters stamina is not impressive, becuases it very impressive.

Midnighter is pretty quick. Wolvies not unbeatable and he's been beat before. Midnighter's ability to counter his moves will be the key to victory.

If Mids can't beat Wolvie, Cybernary will. She has healing and grade a weapons.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Is Carver apart of the regular WS verse? Unless there's been a massive retcon the man's actions helped shape the current WS landscape.

Originally posted by dmills
Unless there's been a massive retcon the man's actions helped shape the current WS landscape.

What books did he appear in? Wildcats? Stormwatch?

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Midnighter is pretty quick. Wolvies not unbeatable and he's been beat before. Midnighter's ability to counter his moves will be the key to victory.

If Mids can't beat Wolvie, Cybernary will. She has healing and grade a weapons.
I never said he was unbeatable. One does not need to be unbeatable to beat midnighter. Midnighter has lost before, his ability is not an auto win. Many if not the majority of the scenerio's can have him losing. He can't make a scenerio happen, he can try. He ability is very overrated. He literally ahve to dodge everyone of wolverine attacks, and that just not gunna happen. Wolverine just as fast as him and midnighters weapons are very bad agaisnt wolverine, blunt force is not a great option espically when you strength level is not even above his own.


Yes, but wolveirne other members may be able to beat her. Wolverine not even the biggest threat on his team.

Cybernary is probably the biggest threat from either list. She's taken down an army of super humans unleashed by her father, single-handedly.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Cybernary is probably the biggest threat from either list. She's taken down an army of super humans unleashed by her father, single-handedly.
Wolverine did the same thing in the last issue of enemy of the state or it was the first issue of agent of shield.

These guys were able to take on the Authority, though. She was quite impressive doing it by herself. She's probably the most impressive living weapon I have seen.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
These guys were able to take on the Authority, though. She was quite impressive doing it by herself. She's probably the most impressive living weapon I have seen.
theses guys wolveirne killed took down shield hellicareer.



If she can take on the authority as a whole, and were talking legitment feat then why would you put her in this match up? wouldent you be purposely creating a spite?


or is that a feat she has but would never be able to reproduce in forum match. Becuase wolverine has taken on numerous teams of x-men, but I am not about to try and argue him beat them in forum match.

It wouldn't be spite, because some of the Weapon X members have done similar feats, like you said. I'm just saying she's the MVP for WS side.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
It wouldn't be spite, because some of the Weapon X members have done similar feats, like you said. I'm just saying she's the MVP for WS side.
so thoses feats are kind irrelevent to the discussion, but you wanted to get accross how badass she was. See now that makes senses. Becuase if she could legitmently take on the entire authority in forum like setting, then this wouldent really be much of a match up lol.

She did beat Jack from Authority, though. I forgot what health he was at, though.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/308/1241075-authority_014_page_006_large.jpg

Here is a description of her powers.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/308/1241089-wc4p22d_large.jpg

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Here is a description of her powers.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/308/1241089-wc4p22d_large.jpg
to be honest I don't know much about her, thats why I havent said who I think wins yet.


though if I am understanding her abilities correctly, her biggest threat might be the weakest member of team weapon x's fanthomx. actaully he could be a big threat to midnighter as well.

What has Fantomex done that you think he could keep up with her?

I really love Fantom, but stopped reading after Morrison's run.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
What has Fantomex done that you think he could keep up with her?

I really love Fantom, but stopped reading after Morrison's run.
eva has a lot of wierd abilities. I pretty sure she can shut down cybernetics, control them, and shoot emp like blasts, also directly place illusions in others minds.

Gamora had a tough time shutting her down, plus she has telepathy as well.

Actually, you're probably right. She has pheremones to distract her opponents and even machines. Like Daken.

She can also conjure up any weapon she sees fit. I should replace her with Warblade or something. She can also control machines. Sorry, eva.

yea the more I read into her the more she seems out of place here. She seems to have to many abilities.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
though if I am understanding her abilities correctly, her biggest threat might be the weakest member of team weapon x's fanthomx. actaully he could be a big threat to midnighter as well.

The weakest member of the Weapon X team is X-23 IMO.

Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
The weakest member of the Weapon X team is X-23 IMO.
I disagree. I like Fantomex a bit, but X-23 should kill him in a fight. Fanthomex is really could in certain senerio's and against certain people. He not overlly powerful he just has unique abilites.

I agree with Dugan here. X-23 is actually a big deal in this match.

The Wildstorm team can match Weapon X in skills and physical abilities, but a problem arises when healing factors are thrown in. People don't like to admit it, but a healing factor is one of the best abilities to have in a melee fight between meta level characters. It's why Wolverine/X-23/Sabertooth/etc are so dangerous.

Nearly every member of Weapon X has one, and it gives them a nice advantage.

Originally posted by StyleTime
I agree with Dugan here. X-23 is actually a big deal in this match.

The Wildstorm team can match Weapon X in skills and physical abilities, but a problem arises when healing factors are thrown in. People don't like to admit it, but a healing factor is one of the best abilities to have in a melee fight between meta level characters. It's why Wolverine/X-23/Sabertooth/etc are so dangerous.

Nearly every member of Weapon X has one, and it gives them a nice advantage.
I agree 100%.


They might all have one, to some digree, I think even fantomex has nanites which repair his body similarly to a healing factor.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
I don't he damage soak to high. They relatively mirror images of eachother in many ways physically, but wolverine has vastly superior damage soak in which Midnighter standard equiptment which is mostly blunted weapons would have hell of a time overcomming espcially before Wolverine stabs the shit out of him.

Midnighter has a healing factor of his own. It's certainly not on Wolverine's level, but add in the fact that Midnighter has redundant systems ( like extra back-up organs), and can turn off his pain receptors, and has ridiculous stamina to match, and the fact that he should be able to avoid a lot of Wolverine's blows thanks to his battle computer/superhuman reflexes/enhanced senses etc. He should have no problem hanging with Wolvie for quite a while. Midnighter has fought through various ailments before (broken limbs, neck, various contusions and puncture wounds, etc)

Yeah. Midnighter definately has the damage soak ability to hang for a looong time. Didn't he fight some guy while he had butcher knives inside of him lol?

Wildstorm handily.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
I disagree. I like Fantomex a bit, but X-23 should kill him in a fight. Fanthomex is really could in certain senerio's and against certain people. He not overlly powerful he just has unique abilites.

Except he is a low-level telepath whose illusions can fool even the most experienced telepaths. X-23 is the weakest character to me because she is the most redundant; any strategy that will work against Sabretooth and Wolverine will work against her. He and Agent Zero are the only combatants on the Weapon X team not restricted by their reach, and he can read body language to assist him in a close-up fight.

You can't judge Fanotmex's usefulness by a one-on-one comparison, especially in a team battle.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Gamora had a tough time shutting her down, plus she has telepathy as well.
Did Cybernary receive an upgrade? I still remember her being taken out by a spear stab from a random Coda warrior and being unable to outwrestle Savant. 131 I've never seen a display of telepathy, but you may know more about her than me.

How good is her telepathy? Can it be used offensively? Any scans or issue numbers?
Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
any strategy that will work against Sabretooth and Wolverine will work against her.

That is basically our point. Team Wildstorm lacks a reliable strategy for Wolverine. Adding Sabretooth, Laura, and Deadpool only worsens Wildstorm's situation. X-23's "redundancy" is actually what makes her a bigger threat in this instance.

Wildstorm can match them for a while, but time isn't on their side.
Originally posted by Lunacyde
Midnighter has a healing factor of his own. It's certainly not on Wolverine's level, but add in the fact that Midnighter has redundant systems ( like extra back-up organs), and can turn off his pain receptors, and has ridiculous stamina to match, and the fact that he should be able to avoid a lot of Wolverine's blows thanks to his battle computer/superhuman reflexes/enhanced senses etc. He should have no problem hanging with Wolvie for quite a while. Midnighter has fought through various ailments before (broken limbs, neck, various contusions and puncture wounds, etc)
Originally posted by dmills
Yeah. Midnighter definately has the damage soak ability to hang for a looong time. Didn't he fight some guy while he had butcher knives inside of him lol?
Even if we assume Midnighter would hang with Logan, his team still has to deal with similar problems. Laura, for example, literally had her torso torn wide open; despite the obvious set back, she continued fighting and healed her wounds in mere moments. Multiple Weapon X members are capable of similar feats. This is really an uphill battle for Wildstorm.

Originally posted by StyleTime
Did Cybernary receive an upgrade? I still remember her being taken out by a spear stab from a random Coda warrior and being unable to outwrestle Savant. 131 I've never seen a display of telepathy, but you may know more about her than me.

How good is her telepathy? Can it be used offensively? Any scans or issue numbers?

That is basically our point. Team Wildstorm lacks a reliable strategy for Wolverine. Adding Sabretooth, Laura, and Deadpool only worsens Wildstorm's situation. X-23's "redundancy" is actually what makes her a bigger threat in this instance.

Wildstorm can match them for a while, but time isn't on their side.


Even if we assume Midnighter would hang with Logan, his team still has to deal with similar problems. Laura, for example, literally had her torso torn wide open; despite the obvious set back, she continued fighting and healed her wounds in mere moments. Multiple Weapon X members are capable of similar feats. This is really an uphill battle for Wildstorm.

Yes, I believe so. She took down an army of Coda warriors and Garmora's children recently in the last year. She even hinted to Midnighter that he would have a hard time fighting her.

She was depowered by the Engineer, though.

Originally posted by StyleTime

That is basically our point. Team Wildstorm lacks a reliable strategy for Wolverine. Adding Sabretooth, Laura, and Deadpool only worsens Wildstorm's situation. X-23's "redundancy" is actually what makes her a bigger threat in this instance.

Wildstorm can match them for a while, but time isn't on their side.

Caleb can take them all out with the Spirit Gun.

Originally posted by StyleTime
Did Cybernary receive an upgrade? I still remember her being taken out by a spear stab from a random Coda warrior and being unable to outwrestle Savant. 131 I've never seen a display of telepathy, but you may know more about her than me.

How good is her telepathy? Can it be used offensively? Any scans or issue numbers?

That is basically our point. Team Wildstorm lacks a reliable strategy for Wolverine. Adding Sabretooth, Laura, and Deadpool only worsens Wildstorm's situation. X-23's "redundancy" is actually what makes her a bigger threat in this instance.

Wildstorm can match them for a while, but time isn't on their side.


Even if we assume Midnighter would hang with Logan, his team still has to deal with similar problems. Laura, for example, literally had her torso torn wide open; despite the obvious set back, she continued fighting and healed her wounds in mere moments. Multiple Weapon X members are capable of similar feats. This is really an uphill battle for Wildstorm.

The funny thing about Sabretooth and Laura are that their skeletons aren't adamantium plated so they are very vulnerable, specifically to Nemesis' blades. Also her forcefields and empathetic powers should lend a hand here. Heck i see no reason that it's not possible her blades could cut through adamantium.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Yes, I believe so. She took down an army of Coda warriors and Garmora's children recently in the last year. She even hinted to Midnighter that he would have a hard time fighting her.

She was depowered by the Engineer, though.
If that is the incident I'm thinking of, that was when she was stabbed by the lone Coda warrior. It was a surprise attack, but it still shows she can be stabbed. Unless she's got a good healing factor recently, she's in the same boat as her teammates.

Ok.
Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
Caleb can take them all out with the Spirit Gun.
That gun has only proven to work on spirits who invaded someone else's body. Outside of that, it works like a regular laser gun from what we've seen. That isn't going to cut it against say, Agent Zero.
Originally posted by Lunacyde
The funny thing about Sabretooth and Laura are that their skeletons aren't adamantium plated so they are very vulnerable, specifically to Nemesis' blades. Also her forcefields and empathetic powers should lend a hand here.

Heck i see no reason that it's not possible her blades could cut through adamantium.
I agree, but it doesn't actually change anything. Laura and co. will heal the damage just the same. When you can heal from being eviscerated, an adamantium skeleton isn't as much of a necessity. While I do believe that Nemesis will likely be the last one standing on Wildstorm's team, her empathic powers have hindered her in the past.

If we are being fair, they will probably just collide with each other. I doubt either would be cut by the other.

the issue im talking about was a backup story for authority. i dont remember any coda warrior.

Yeah, you're right about that.

The incident I refer to took place in her solo series. Yumiko is essentially jumped by a swarm of "skilled" Coda assassins that cooked up the brilliant strategy of literally dogpiling her. Naturally, she mauls them. One remaining Coda (I think it was Xantha) uses Lisette as a distraction and stabs Yumiko. Max enters and forces Xantha to retreat.

Yumiko is unconscious for almost the entire next issue after that stab. They will take some damage in the process obviously, but I see any of the "Healing Brigade" taking her.

On a side note, I am glad they are actually doing something with Cybernary. Her solo series was kinda bleh and her tenure in Savant's "I'm a butt kicking anthropologist. HI YA! *karate chop*" series wasn't all that either.

Originally posted by StyleTime
If that is the incident I'm thinking of, that was when she was stabbed by the lone Coda warrior. It was a surprise attack, but it still shows she can be stabbed. Unless she's got a good healing factor recently, she's in the same boat as her teammates.

Ok.

That gun has only proven to work on spirits who invaded someone else's body. Outside of that, it works like a regular laser gun from what we've seen. That isn't going to cut it against say, Agent Zero.

I agree, but it doesn't actually change anything. Laura and co. will heal the damage just the same. When you can heal from being eviscerated, an adamantium skeleton isn't as much of a necessity. While I do believe that Nemesis will likely be the last one standing on Wildstorm's team, her empathic powers have hindered her in the past.

If we are being fair, they will probably just collide with each other. I doubt either would be cut by the other.

Last time I checked though they can't heal back from decapitation, so that's a very viable option against them.

Originally posted by StyleTime
The incident I refer to took place in her solo series. Yumiko is essentially jumped by a swarm of "skilled" Coda assassins that cooked up the brilliant strategy of literally dogpiling her. Naturally, she mauls them. One remaining Coda (I think it was Xantha) uses Lisette as a distraction and stabs Yumiko. Max enters and forces Xantha to retreat.

Yumiko is unconscious for almost the entire next issue after that stab. They will take some damage in the process obviously, but I see any of the "Healing Brigade" taking her.

On a side note, I am glad they are actually doing something with Cybernary. Her solo series was kinda bleh and her tenure in Savant's "I'm a butt kicking anthropologist. HI YA! *karate chop*" series wasn't all that either.

The was before the incident I'm referring to. She took down Jack Hawksmoor in the back up issue and had to be shut down by Engineer. She's much more bad ass now.

Even in her Image series, she was still pretty formidable.

Originally posted by Lunacyde
Last time I checked though they can't heal back from decapitation, so that's a very viable option against them.
actaully they both can heal from decapitation.

Nemesis better be cutting their arms off then. Legs just to be safe.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Nemesis better be cutting their arms off then. Legs just to be safe.
They can easily re attach arms, or even grow them completely.

Sabre-tooth is as fast and strong as friggin spiderman if not faster and stronger.

also sabre-tooth dead, so wouldent we take him at his strongest form which would be adamatium.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
also sabre-tooth dead, so wouldent we take him at his strongest form which would be adamatium. why would we take him at his strongest form? I think we would take him at his classic form...no adamantium

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
They can easily re attach arms, or even grow them completely.

Sabre-tooth is as fast and strong as friggin spiderman if not faster and stronger.

I highly doubt they'd let them. Remember, these guys also have super speed and strength on their level. Wolvie would probably be ko'd from the blades.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
actaully they both can heal from decapitation.

When have Laura or Sabretooth healed from being decapitated? Last time I checked the reason Creed is dead is decapitation.

Originally posted by Lunacyde
When have Laura or Sabretooth healed from being decapitated? Last time I checked the reason Creed is dead is decapitation.

With the Muramasa blade.

Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
With the Muramasa blade.

True, but is there an instance where either of these two have been decapitated and healed back from it?

Originally posted by Lunacyde
True, but is there an instance where either of these two have been decapitated and healed back from it?
sabre-tooth once healed from bits no biger then wolverine fingers. There no reason to assume X-23 can't after the shit she's healed from.

Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
With the Muramasa blade.
yup, if that would hgave worked with a normal blade, wolverine would have done that long ago.

So, the Muramasa blade can do it, but Nemesis Blades won't? Which is said to be able to cut through anything?

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
sabre-tooth once healed from bits no biger then wolverine fingers. There no reason to assume X-23 can't after the shit she's healed from. How long did it take him to heal back?

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
sabre-tooth once healed from bits no biger then wolverine fingers. nice...keep on using PIS events.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
So, the Muramasa blade can do it, but Nemesis Blades won't? Which is said to be able to cut through anything?

The M-blade has mystical properties that cancels out healing factors is their point.

Originally posted by Lunacyde
How long did it take him to heal back?
dident show how long it took.

Originally posted by Starscream M
nice...keep on using PIS events.
why that pis, he can heal as fast as wolverine who has survived decapitation. He had his neck broken and heal it instantly.. he healed having his arm cut off casually.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
dident show how long it took. Is that instance in conformity with his usual feats or is it a high end feat that has never been replicated since?

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
why that pis, he can heal as fast as wolverine who has survived decapitation. He had his neck broken and heal it instantly.. he healed having his arm cut off casually. healing from an cut arm...I buy

healing from a broken neck...still plausible

healing from a chunk of meat...IMPOSSIBLE and RIDICULOUS (it doesn't even make sense when you think about it)

Originally posted by Lunacyde
True, but is there an instance where either of these two have been decapitated and healed back from it?

*shrugs*

The fact that Sabretooth was decapitated with a weapon that nearly negates healing factors needed to be pointed out.

Originally posted by Starscream M
healing from an cut arm...I buy

healing from a broken neck...still plausible

healing from a chunk of meat...IMPOSSIBLE and RIDICULOUS (it doesn't even make sense when you think about it)


It happen and his healing factor is that string. he has absurd healing feats and he heals as fast as wolverine.

Originally posted by Lunacyde
Is that instance in conformity with his usual feats or is it a high end feat that has never been replicated since?
He suposes to heal as fast or faster then wolverine. wolverine has survived decapitation.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
It happen and his healing factor is that string. he has absurd healing feats and he heals as fast as wolverine. so if he gets cut into 10 pieces...does each piece become a new sabretooth?

Originally posted by Starscream M
so if he gets cut into 10 pieces...does each piece become a new sabretooth?
by your logic any time they spilled blood each would make a new sabre-tooth clone

Originally posted by Lunacyde
Last time I checked though they can't heal back from decapitation, so that's a very viable option against them.
You're conflating a "possible" outcome with "viable" tactic. It's "possible" that Agent Zero just snipes Nemesis at the start of the battle; however, it is not very likely.

Similarly, I doubt anyone will be decapitated here. The combatants of this thread are fairly skilled, and they wouldn't leave their necks vunerable. In all honesty, Team Wildstorm is more likely to lose member due to decapitation. Defending yourself becomes harder as you tire and your injuries accumulate.
Originally posted by Prep-Man
The was before the incident I'm referring to. She took down Jack Hawksmoor in the back up issue and had to be shut down by Engineer. She's much more bad ass now.

Even in her Image series, she was still pretty formidable.
I've read it, but I think the feat is being overblown. Due to Jack's powers, he comes with a variable difficulty level for his opponents. Once Jack was healed in Gamorra, I seriously doubt Cybernary would have taken him.

She still suffers from the same problem the rest of her team does. She won't consistently incapacitate any of the Healing Brigade before she gets stabbed. She will hurt them obviously, but they'll outlast her.
Originally posted by Prep-Man
I highly doubt they'd let them. Remember, these guys also have super speed and strength on their level. Wolvie would probably be ko'd from the blades.
The blades will stand up to adamantium obviously, but I seriously doubt she will get the KO; she certainly won't get it for a majority.

You all are welcome to your views of course, but I don't see what is so unnacceptable about this. We have a team of expert fighters in a mostly melee battle against an evenly matched team of expert fighters....with healing factors. Who has the advantage?

Two fighters get into a knife fight on the street. They are equal in all areas, but one has Wolverine's healing factor. Who wins?

It's a comical scenario, but the point is there.

Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
*shrugs*

The fact that Sabretooth was decapitated with a weapon that nearly negates healing factors needed to be pointed out.
It was I am glad you did don't get me wrong, for some reason I didn't think of that at the time I posted, which in retrospect I am scratching my head about lol.

Originally posted by Starscream M

healing from a chunk of meat...IMPOSSIBLE and RIDICULOUS (it doesn't even make sense when you think about it)
Dude, I agree. I think it's stupid as hell too, but that comics for ya. If he's done it, we can't argue much with it. Unless there was some contradictory event.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
by your logic any time they spilled blood each would make a new sabre-tooth clone um no...because I never said Sabreooth could heal from a drop of blood

that's WHY your logic is FAULTY

Originally posted by StyleTime
You're conflating a "possible" outcome with "viable" tactic. It's "possible" that Agent Zero just snipes Nemesis at the start of the battle; however, it is not very likely.

Similarly, I doubt anyone will be decapitated here. The combatants of this thread are fairly skilled, and they wouldn't leave their necks vunerable. In all honesty, Team Wildstorm is more likely to lose member due to decapitation. Defending yourself becomes harder as you tire and your injuries accumulate.

I've read it, but I think the feat is being overblown. Due to Jack's powers, he comes with a variable difficulty level for his opponents. Once Jack was healed in Gamorra, I seriously doubt Cybernary would have taken him.

She still suffers from the same problem the rest of her team does. She won't consistently incapacitate any of the Healing Brigade before she gets stabbed. She will hurt them obviously, but they'll outlast her.

The blades will stand up to adamantium obviously, but I seriously doubt she will get the KO; she certainly won't get it for a majority.

You all are welcome to your views of course, but I don't see what is so unnacceptable about this. We have a team of expert fighters in a mostly melee battle against an evenly matched team of expert fighters....with healing factors. Who has the advantage?

Two fighters get into a knife fight on the street. They are equal in all areas, but one has Wolverine's healing factor. Who wins?

It's a comical scenario, but the point is there.

The only problem I see with your analogy is that they are not equal if you take away the HF. Take away the HF and Team Wildstorm is superior in both versatility and raw power/skill.

Originally posted by Lunacyde
The only problem I see with your analogy is that they are not equal if you take away the HF. Take away the HF and Team Wildstorm is superior in both versatility and raw power/skill.
wait a sec based on what?

Originally posted by Lunacyde
The only problem I see with your analogy is that they are not equal if you take away the HF. Take away the HF and Team Wildstorm is superior in both versatility and raw power/skill.
As much as I'd like to believe Wildstorm is superior, I'm not seeing it.

Skill is roughly equal. I'd put Wolverine and Nemesis somewhere in the same boat. They are probably the most skilled here. Power? It depends on what we mean. You could argue that Sabertooth or Agent Orange are the most physically imposing. Versatility is still a hard call. Backlash is unique, but he doesn't offer nearly as much with CIS on. Calebs ranged options can be matched by Zero.

How did you see it?

Originally posted by Lunacyde
It was I am glad you did don't get me wrong, for some reason I didn't think of that at the time I posted, which in retrospect I am scratching my head about lol.

agree to disagre. were just going in cikrcles. cybernary to me is very impressive. she has a battle computer that allows her to know her opponentsw moves and can distract any of her foes through pheromones. id side with team ws myself.

Originally posted by StyleTime
As much as I'd like to believe Wildstorm is superior, I'm not seeing it.

Skill is roughly equal. I'd put Wolverine and Nemesis somewhere in the same boat. They are probably the most skilled here. Power? It depends on what we mean. You could argue that Sabertooth or Agent Orange are the most physically imposing. Versatility is still a hard call. Backlash is unique, but he doesn't offer nearly as much with CIS on. Calebs ranged options can be matched by Zero.

How did you see it?

Skill: I don't see how you can put them at equal. The Healing brigade tends to tank blows more than evade them because of their HFs. Characters like Nemesis don't have that luxury, they can't be lazy in their fighting style. If not for his adamantium skeleton and Healing factor Wolverine would lose to a number of Martial artists.

Power: Well Sabes is a big asset to team X here considering he is very formidable strength and power-wise though it's never been really specified exactly how strong he is, Class 4 ranges anywhere from 4-25 tons I believe. Most of the WS characters are categorized with at least superhuman strength.

Versatility: WS has a much wider range of abilities here. The range of X abilities is basically enhanced physical traits, enhanced senses, Healing factors, and extreme marksmanship. The WS team possesses those and a number of other abilities including telekinetic and telepathic abilities, battle computer's, the ability to assume mist form, generate forcefields, high-tech weaponry, pheremones, and move reading.

Originally posted by Lunacyde
Skill: I don't see how you can put them at equal. The Healing brigade tends to tank blows more than evade them because of their HFs. Characters like Nemesis don't have that luxury, they can't be lazy in their fighting style. If not for his adamantium skeleton and Healing factor Wolverine would lose to a number of Martial artists.

This is plain ignorance. You clearly don't read wolverine. He beaten DD with out even taking a single hit. He beat shang-chi with out the need of his healing factor as well. He beat Capt with a tax out healing factor by giving him a blood clot ect. You are very much mistaken.

Originally posted by Lunacyde
Power: Well Sabes is a big asset to team X here considering he is very formidable strength and power-wise though it's never been really specified exactly how strong he is, Class 4 ranges anywhere from 4-25 tons I believe. Most of the WS characters are categorized with at least superhuman strength.

Sabre-tooth is easily the strongest person of either team. He casually wielded 10 ton generated as a weapon........

VOriginally posted by Lunacyde
ersatility: WS has a much wider range of abilities here. The range of X abilities is basically enhanced physical traits, enhanced senses, Healing factors, and extreme marksmanship. The WS team possesses those and a number of other abilities including telekinetic and telepathic abilities, battle computer's, the ability to assume mist form, generate forcefields, high-tech weaponry, pheremones, and move reading.

fantomex can due pretty much any of thoses abilites, agent zero can do a number of abilities that friggin WS never even seen before. They also have number of teamates who carries numerous weapons, such things as adamatium bullets, knifes, vibrianium suits anti metal ect.

clearly you dont understand or know much about what some of the more obscure members of marvel team can do or carries with them. Because fantomex and agent zero are just a versitile as any member of WS team. Shit fantomex computer battle type program as well. also any member of team marvel who has super human senses can move read.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
agree to disagre. were just going in cikrcles. cybernary to me is very impressive. she has a battle computer that allows her to know her opponentsw moves and can distract any of her foes through pheromones. id side with team ws myself.
I just wanted to clear the issue up. I do think Cybernary is impressive, but her damage soak presents the same liability as the rest of her team.
Originally posted by Lunacyde
Skill: I don't see how you can put them at equal. The Healing brigade tends to tank blows more than evade them because of their HFs. Characters like Nemesis don't have that luxury, they can't be lazy in their fighting style. If not for his adamantium skeleton and Healing factor Wolverine would lose to a number of Martial artists.

Power: Well Sabes is a big asset to team X here considering he is very formidable strength and power-wise though it's never been really specified exactly how strong he is, Class 4 ranges anywhere from 4-25 tons I believe. Most of the WS characters are categorized with at least superhuman strength.

Versatility: WS has a much wider range of abilities here. The range of X abilities is basically enhanced physical traits, enhanced senses, Healing factors, and extreme marksmanship. The WS team possesses those and a number of other abilities including telekinetic and telepathic abilities, battle computer's, the ability to assume mist form, generate forcefields, high-tech weaponry, pheremones, and move reading.
He does have the option of getting hit, but it does not mean he's less skilled. I've seen Nemesis get saved by forcefields the same way I've seen Wolverine get saved by his healing factor. He's got plenty of martial arts related feats. Dugan already named some.

Cybernary, Nemesis, Caleb, and Backlash have no strength feats that couldn't be replicated by nearly everyone on Weapon X. With Sabretooth and Agent Orange on separate teams, it balances out. I'm being generous too. Many people would argue that Sabretooth is the strongest here.

Where will the telekinesis and telepathy come from? Nemesis's force fields will serve the same function as Zero's vibranium suit and the various healing factors. Fantomex has EVA, which is probably the most high tech thing in the thread. Agent Zero can shoot "hadoukens" and nullify healing factors which would help if he gets into it with Midnighter. To be honest, Weapon X has some ability to check each one of Team Wildstorm's abilities except Backlash. With CIS on, Backlash's misting is only a slight advantage. I'd rank them at roughly equal.

I'm curious about the telekinetic and telepathic feats though. Those might change things. Which instances are you talking about?

I am pretty sure every member of weapon x has tp blockers.

In all fairness I forgot Fantomex was on Team X so my evaluation is somewhat skewed.

Originally posted by StyleTime
I just wanted to clear the issue up. I do think Cybernary is impressive, but her damage soak presents the same liability as the rest of her team.

He does have the option of getting hit, but it does not mean he's less skilled. I've seen Nemesis get saved by forcefields the same way I've seen Wolverine get saved by his healing factor. He's got plenty of martial arts related feats. Dugan already named some.

Cybernary, Nemesis, Caleb, and Backlash have no strength feats that couldn't be replicated by nearly everyone on Weapon X. With Sabretooth and Agent Orange on separate teams, it balances out. I'm being generous too. Many people would argue that Sabretooth is the strongest here.

Where will the telekinesis and telepathy come from? Nemesis's force fields will serve the same function as Zero's vibranium suit and the various healing factors. Fantomex has EVA, which is probably the most high tech thing in the thread. Agent Zero can shoot "hadoukens" and nullify healing factors which would help if he gets into it with Midnighter. To be honest, Weapon X has some ability to check each one of Team Wildstorm's abilities except Backlash. With CIS on, Backlash's misting is only a slight advantage. I'd rank them at roughly equal.

I'm curious about the telekinetic and telepathic feats though. Those might change things. Which instances are you talking about?

She has her own healing factor and on top of that, I don't worry about her getting hit at all. She did dodge an army of super-men for what it's worth.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
She has her own healing factor and on top of that, I don't worry about her getting hit at all. She did dodge an army of super-men for what it's worth.
yea and wolverine killed an army of super villains. Your using one feat as the end all be all. That one feat does ny equate to her being untouchable thats rediculous.

She was pretty much untouchable when she was facing the army. IIRC, No one could land a hit on her. Same army that took on Authority and Wildcats. Pretty impressive, IMO.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
She was pretty much untouchable when she was facing the army. IIRC, No one could land a hit on her. Same army that took on Authority and Wildcats. Pretty impressive, IMO.
again one feat is not the end all be all.

it rediculous.

She also took on an army of Coda warriors and Authority. Plus got into Gamora's base and killed him. Hardly one feat.

IMO, she's the toughest one here. She'd kick the shit out of Midnighter, too.