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Pretty much any video of his is worth watching.

Ten minutes? Part one?! Ohhhhh.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Ten minutes? Part one?! Ohhhhh.

If you can't formulate a complex political position in 3 words or less, you are worthless!!!

He says "Care has been taken away from doctor/patient relationships and given to corporations"...and he's right, but his sulotion is lacking.

This is where libertarians just don't get it. History shows us that the freer the market the stronger and more influential corporations become.

I don't know why he thinks less government would change that.

Originally posted by The Dark Cloud
He says "Care has been taken away from doctor/patient relationships and given to corporations"...and he's right, but his sulotion is lacking.

This is where libertarians just don't get it. History shows us that the freer the market the stronger and more influential corporations become.

I don't know why he thinks less government would change that. History shows us that where?

Cause the US has a gigantic government, with a lot of market influencing and corporations are gigantic and ridiculously influential (due to being able to buy that government)

But the problem with Mr. Paul's position is that to remedy that corporate influence in the government, making it "smaller", is to reduce that government's ability to police and regulate those businesses that become large enough to buy said government.

It's also a false position that government healthcare is somehow going to be responsible for impersonalizing the relationship between a doctor and their patient. Those same corporations that Mr. Paul would like to see run free, unchecked, are more responsible for that than government healthcare. So, in this instance, Mr. Paul is right in some respects, given that the current plan for government healthcare is just one big sloppy blowjob for the insurance racket and the pharmaceutical dealers.

Mr. Paul seems to honestly and passionately believe that it is unfair to treat business differently based only on the size and success of that business. The problem with his position is that in order to ensure that successful business is not punished for being successful, he ignores the reality that most businesses do not become successful and that those that are must be held to a higher standard given the amount of national wealth and resources they control. He also ignores the hypocrisy of treating the government as the natural enemy of successful business while refusing to understand that the government of the US is wholly own and subsidized by those businesses. They're really the same enemy in his rhetoric. he seems to really buy into the Milton Friedman school of trickle down economics, which has been what has ultimately proven to be the false supposition in all of this free market v socialized healthcare debate. In fact, it's proven to be the false supposition in practically every conservative republican position.

Originally posted by Bardock42
If you can't formulate a complex political position in 3 words or less, you are worthless!!! It's true. "Taxes bad!" See? Nominate me, I'll win.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
It's true. "Taxes bad!" See? Nominate me, I'll win.

Taxes Good! No, I'll win.

Federal healthcare bad.....I need more than 3 words!... capitalism good.

Originally posted by menokokoro
Federal healthcare bad.....I need more than 3 words!... capitalism good.

"Government of the people, by the people, for the people'

"Hi, I'm Ron Paul. We need to get the government out of health care so they don't prevent good honest doctors from inventing organizations and accreditations to award themselves like my son Rand did. I named him after my favorite author who taught me that the owners and capitalists have all the real value and that the workers are just useless parasites. It's an insult to morality to give any of these moochers health care. They can buy their own. It's easier and cheaper to buy if you get rid of regulation. We need only one regulation on business-buyer beware. We're America! We don't need no sissy universal health care or truth in packaging laws, or anti-trust laws, or RICO. If it involves a financial transaction, it's legal. Also, using public roads makes you a communist.
Also, while we're being honest, let's just throw out the economic backup plan that's obvious to me based on my associations. If the economy gets worse, let's just seize money from the Jews but harvest their organs and sell them to the Chinese before we gas em. Hell, half the party loves the idea.
Happy Easter!"
-Ron Paul, 2010

Originally posted by Darth Jello
"If it involves a financial transaction, it's legal."

Pretty much the beginning and end of Mr. Paul's economic, social and political perspective. Cheers to you.

I don't understand how so many people can't relate the idea of a vote to the concept of buying a retail product as the same ****ing thing. We elect leaders the same way we give Exxon or Nabisco political clout in a free market above all else mindset.

It becomes easier to understand when you think of conservatism and objectivism as inverse-marxism.

Originally posted by skekUng
"Government of the people, by the people, for the people' "Government of the people, by the people, for the people"=complete government control? No all this means is that the government is there to serve the people, searve as in protect the freedoms the founding fathers had in mind, and capitalism is what they had in mind. In what way does complete control of healthcare by ANY one organization make sense? they will get greedy, charging more for their services (aka, tax the hell out of us), taking short cuts, less and less people will qualify for medical services, and they can get away with all that crap because they wont have any competition. Everyone will also be forced to have healthcare, the first time the government has ever attempted to force us to buy something. and then there is the fact that anything funded by the government (besides the military, don't ask me why this is) is crap, dmv, post office, welfare, social security, etc. They don't care how they spend the money, it isn't theirs, so why would they?

Then there is the less compassionate reason, it would bankrupt an already bankrupt country. After they bleed their citizens dry, they will need to pay for all this crap somehow, so...I don't know, we would have to do something...we all move to Canada I guess.

Given, that is a pretty extreme scenario, but really...it isn't that far off from what Obama wants to do.

Now, I don't know exactly if you were arguing for obama care, but I needed to rant a bit.

Originally posted by menokokoro
"Government of the people, by the people, for the people"=complete government control?

Bullshit. It might mean to you what you want it to imply, but that was not my intention. In fact, every time you call it Obamacare, you not only illustrate your own intentional ignorance of the reality, but ignore that what you call Obamacare is only a few degrees off of what would have ended up being called Dolecare in 1997.

'Of, by and for' represents more of what is America than what too many have been duped into calling socialism, as though it were at all a bad and unrealistic thing, than does anything Reagan or Obama have done. Socialized medicare is more American and far more in line with FDR's 2nd bill of human rights than anything accomplished by any President or political party in the last 30 years.

There is also a difference between what the President campaigned on and attempted, along with Hillary in the '90s, than is realistically possible in the corporate bully is king atmosphere that currently runs America.

Originally posted by Darth Jello
It becomes easier to understand when you think of conservatism and objectivism as inverse-marxism.

Doesn't it? However, that doesn't preclude actual liberalism. A fact ignored by the politically charged neo-con, christians who identify more with politics than religion than they realize.

Originally posted by Darth Jello
It becomes easier to understand when you think of conservatism and objectivism as inverse-marxism. Oww. So many isms hurt my thinking place.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Oww. So many isms hurt my thinking place.

-isms are why it's so easy for most of the "bad" ones to become associated with each other.

Originally posted by Darth Jello
"Hi, I'm Ron Paul. We need to get the government out of health care so they don't prevent good honest doctors from inventing organizations and accreditations to award themselves like my son Rand did. I named him after my favorite author who taught me that the owners and capitalists have all the real value and that the workers are just useless parasites. It's an insult to morality to give any of these moochers health care. They can buy their own. It's easier and cheaper to buy if you get rid of regulation. We need only one regulation on business-buyer beware. We're America! We don't need no sissy universal health care or truth in packaging laws, or anti-trust laws, or RICO. If it involves a financial transaction, it's legal. Also, using public roads makes you a communist.
Also, while we're being honest, let's just throw out the economic backup plan that's obvious to me based on my associations. If the economy gets worse, let's just seize money from the Jews but harvest their organs and sell them to the Chinese before we gas em. Hell, half the party loves the idea.
Happy Easter!"
-Ron Paul, 2010 Originally posted by skekUng
Pretty much the beginning and end of Mr. Paul's economic, social and political perspective. Cheers to you.

I don't understand how so many people can't relate the idea of a vote to the concept of buying a retail product as the same ****ing thing. We elect leaders the same way we give Exxon or Nabisco political clout in a free market above all else mindset.

I am glad you two found fellowship in your ignorance.

Kaiser Family Foundation:

The organization that epitomizes "good" health care in America. Do you goes know anything about the Kaiser group's health care and health care group? "Awesome" is the only way I could describe it.


For you Europeans with decent health care systems...it would just be "normal."

Originally posted by Darth Jello
It becomes easier to understand when you think of conservatism and objectivism as inverse-marxism.

Holy shit, that's a heavy sentence to digest (intellectually).

Originally posted by Bardock42
I am glad you two found fellowship in your ignorance.

Can you expound on that?

Or perhaps something I mentioned in my first post?

Oh, and don't answer under the premise that your candidate is right simply by virtue that he is the one you support. How is Mr. Paul's perspective most right because he isn't Obama or Hillary or McCain. Talk about the economic principles espoused by your man who refuses not to abandon a party that abandoned his economic perspective in favor of the Friedman mindset while espousing the Jefferson or Lincoln principles.

Originally posted by skekUng
Bullshit. It might mean to you what you want it to imply, but that was not my intention. In fact, every time you call it Obamacare, you not only illustrate your own intentional ignorance of the reality, but ignore that what you call Obamacare is only a few degrees off of what would have ended up being called Dolecare in 1997.

'Of, by and for' represents more of what is America than what too many have been duped into calling socialism, as though it were at all a bad and unrealistic thing, than does anything Reagan or Obama have done. Socialized medicare is more American and far more in line with FDR's 2nd bill of human rights than anything accomplished by any President or political party in the last 30 years.

There is also a difference between what the President campaigned on and attempted, along with Hillary in the '90s, than is realistically possible in the corporate bully is king atmosphere that currently runs America. Can you tell me why what I say is wrong, instead of just calling me ignorant?

Originally posted by menokokoro
Can you tell me why what I say is wrong, instead of just calling me ignorant?

Correction, "Intentional ignorance." AKA, ignorance on purpose...which is such an oxymoron that it actually cannot be correct. What he probably meant was "feigned ignorance."

Split hairs aside, my post was fairly blatant, tubby.

take it to the bike racks, boys

Originally posted by skekUng
Split hairs aside, my post was fairly blatant, tubby.


Has menokokoro even posted a picture of himself? How do you know he's "tubby"? And was that necessary?

Originally posted by skekUng
Split hairs aside, my post was fairly blatant, tubby. Not really, you didn't talk about any of my points, I gave several steps as to why the "obamacare" would be a bad idea, you simply said statements with nothing to back them up.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Has menokokoro even posted a picture of himself? How do you know he's "tubby"? And was that necessary?

I'm talking to you, e-stud.

Originally posted by skekUng
I'm talking to you, e-stud.

Well, that doesn't make much sense.

About Ron Paul's Healthcare vids from 2007...

The elipsis should come before the Ron Paul video comment.

say what you want, the man has an eye for an ellipsis, ddm

Originally posted by Zeal Ex Nihilo
Pretty much any video of his is worth watching.

Now THIS is a good thread of yours because you hit the nail right on the head there.

Obamacare is the dumbest name for this health care law... given that the final product is nowhere near what Obama had actually wanted. If anything it should be "republicare".

Originally posted by King Kandy
Obamacare is the dumbest name for this health care law... given that the final product is nowhere near what Obama had actually wanted. If anything it should be "republicare".

No, Obamacare is pretty accurate since like most things he does, it's lazy, half-assed, and sells out the public to corporations. Republicare would be decriminalizing suicide and making unemployment and infirmity over 10 weeks a capital offense.

Originally posted by Darth Jello
No, Obamacare is pretty accurate since like most things he does, it's lazy, half-assed, and sells out the public to corporations. Republicare would be decriminalizing suicide and making unemployment and infirmity over 10 weeks a capital offense.
I live in Oregon where we do have decriminalized suicide... you really think it was the republicans pushing for it?

Originally posted by King Kandy
I live in Oregon where we do have decriminalized suicide... you really think it was the republicans pushing for it?

I went over a lot of those stats in a 3rd year social psych course

very cool stuff, pretty convincing too

TBH I think it has less to do with political bent than the whole contrarian nature of Oregon politics... we have close to equal proportions of reactionary conservatives and radical liberals that means, so many strange ideas come to the surface that we end up having very different policies than other states.

huh, like what else?

mail-in voting (sooo convenient)
2nd Highest minimum wage in country
no sales tax
very low tax rates
Passed a bottle-return bill before anyone else did
had an anti-gay marriage measure that came very close to passing
early medical marijuana measure
one of the first state to start using popular initiatives

Originally posted by King Kandy
mail-in voting (sooo convenient)
2nd Highest minimum wage in country
no sales tax
very low tax rates
Passed a bottle-return bill before anyone else did
had an anti-gay marriage measure that came very close to passing
early medical marijuana measure
one of the first state to start using popular initiatives

cool, you guys are like the anti-gay california I've never heard of before

no thats actually pretty cool, probably a nice place to live

It's not like its anti-gay... I wouldn't be surprised if we legalized gay marriage any time now. Its like, we either have really conservative or really liberal things passed in equal proportions. we don't really have moderates.

I almost think that is the best way, tbh

**** comprimise

Originally posted by skekUng
The elipsis should come before the Ron Paul video comment.

Original text:

Originally posted by dadudemon
About Ron Paul's Healthcare vids from 2007: there is very little rhyme or reason to the hate Paul is receiving.

I edited the text for rhetorical purposes:

Originally posted by dadudemon
About Ron Paul's Healthcare vids from 2007...



I win the internets.




*takes a bow*







Originally posted by King Kandy
Obamacare is the dumbest name for this health care law... given that the final product is nowhere near what Obama had actually wanted. If anything it should be "republicare".

OR

& quot;RetardedbastardizedObamacarewithtoomanychiefs
dictatinghowthecareshouldworkbecausetheywerealltry
ingtosatisfytheirconstituentsinsteadofmakingsmartd
icisions-care."

Originally posted by dadudemon
there is very little rhyme or reason to the hate Paul is receiving.

There is also very little rhyme or reason to the support he is receiving, other than that he gets from people who like to utter the motto of "government bad, what I want good!" Most especially when you consider how hypocritical the people babbling the mantra are bright enough to understand how counter-productive his ideals are to their every day opinion on matters other than gutting the government.

Originally posted by skekUng
There is also very little rhyme or reason to the support he is receiving, other than that he gets from people who like to utter the motto of "government bad, what I want good!" Most especially when you consider how hypocritical the people babbling the mantra are bright enough to understand how counter-productive his ideals are to their every day opinion on matters other than gutting the government.

That's a strawman, David. You know as well as I do that your statements, above, are very broad and general and the portion you quoted in my post is very specific to this thread and the OP.

Originally posted by skekUng
There is also very little rhyme or reason to the support he is receiving, other than that he gets from people who like to utter the motto of "government bad, what I want good!" Most especially when you consider how hypocritical the people babbling the mantra are bright enough to understand how counter-productive his ideals are to their every day opinion on matters other than gutting the government.
It seems like every moron in the US finds something in common in Ron Paul.

Originally posted by King Kandy
It seems like every moron in the US finds something in common in Ron Paul.

A knee-jerk reaction is to agree. However, I think there are a lot of reasonable people who honestly believe what he says is so logical that it is beyond reproach.