Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

There.

Where they at? Depending on the location, Minato could win this in moments.

Edit: Err, never mind. Minato can win this anywhere in moments I suppose.

They are There.

What is Minato going to do to A? How will he penetrate his shroud?

A

Originally posted by King Kandy
What is Minato going to do to A? How will he penetrate his shroud?

Easy answer is he won't because he won't have to. Though one can conceivably make the argument that his rasengan might be able to break through it.

Minato will win in moments anywhere in the Narutoverse though by KMC rules.

how will he win then? BFR?

What does BFR mean again?

battlefield removal.

how do you think minato will win?

Yeah, that basically. Ports him out of the ring, so A loses by default. :O

Obviously kidding of course, but apparently HP loses if he aparates out of the ring so really not much of a difference here.

Though realistically, I do support Minato, if only because his FTG is proven to be able to out run Madara, which even A failed to do. And I actually do think now that rasengan can conceivably beat his shroud. Which, even if that doesn't work, I think Minato would have a back up plan. Unlike Naruto, Minato would probably have no qualms about summoning Gamabunta if he needed it. Which would result in this probably.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Yeah, that basically. Ports him out of the ring, so A loses by default. :O

Obviously kidding of course, but apparently HP loses if he aparates out of the ring so really not much of a difference here.

Though realistically, I do support Minato, if only because his FTG is proven to be able to out run Madara, which even A failed to do. And I actually do think now that rasengan can conceivably beat his shroud. Which, even if that doesn't work, I think Minato would have a back up plan. Unlike Naruto, Minato would probably have no qualms about summoning Gamabunta if he needed it. Which would result in this probably.

An FTG which involved Minato porting at the last instant to a moving kunai right behind Madara, just as Madara was about to grab Minato; vs. a straight head-on charge that any 3 Tomoe Sharingan user could have seen coming? Far from the same thing.

Minato isn't faster, not unless he continually ports between kunais.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Easy answer is he won't because he won't have to. Though one can conceivably make the argument that his rasengan might be able to break through it.

Minato will win in moments anywhere in the Narutoverse though by KMC rules.

Doubt it. Rasengan's matches up with Chidori, but Chidori has far far greater penetrative force, and it was barely able to penetrate the shroud.
Though it might just be able to cause damage.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
An FTG which involved Minato porting at the last instant to a moving kunai right behind Madara, just as Madara was about to grab Minato; vs. a straight head-on charge that any 3 Tomoe Sharingan user could have seen coming? Far from the same thing.

Minato isn't faster, not unless he continually ports between kunais.



And since his attacks are so easily noticeable, Minato should have no problem with them. And when teh Kunai are everywhere, Minato ports from point A to B without a care in the world. And even barring that, Minato is notably quite fast and has remarkable reaction time. FTG just makes him more of a menace.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Doubt it. Rasengan's matches up with Chidori, but Chidori has far far greater penetrative force, and it was barely able to penetrate the shroud.
Though it might just be able to cause damage.

Which, there is the argument. Naruto's normal rasengan is just as strong as Sasuke's chidori, which actually did pierce the shroud. Minato's is comparably bigger and likely more powerful. It could very well tear the shroud up. Which is what the rasengan would do instead of piercing. And repeated uses of it could very well be damaging to Raikage, especially considering how quickly he can attack in succession and how quickly he can form the rasengan.

Which again, Gamabunta.

A definitely has my bet in this fight. He's fast enough to react to Minato, and his armor gives him a defensive advantage. It should take a lot of rasengan to wear him down, they should only do a little damage each, while on the flipside even a glancing hit is a major threat to Minato.

Minato can't insta-win because A has the reaction time to put up his armor before a kunai gets close. Teleporting gives Minato more movement, but he's facing someone with comparable reaction time, which makes things a lot trickier.




But which happens faster, making a second rasengan or refreshing the shroud? I'd bet on refreshing the shroud, so each rasengan is only going to deal minor damage, the chidori only made a scratch.


---

Nor do I think Gamabunta would turn things. Raikage's probably strong enough to throw him And Bunta's much slower than either combatant. Odds are even fairly high of him getting in the way. I think this'll be resolved by personal fighting.

Feats of A's reaction time which wasn't due to any telegraphed attack would be nice.

Gamabunta.

Edit: You editor you.

Raikage has pitiful strength feats compared to a lot of other characters. Throwing Gamabunta is not in his range at present. He is only using one arm after all.

But yeah, Toad Flame Bomb. Blowing him up should work nicely.

I think TheAuraAngel has done a nice job of summing up my approach to the discussion.


And about the rasengan vs. chidori: the rasengan, technically, is more destructive than the chidori. If you remember, the back of the water towers. Minato uses a large form. He can also form it ultra fast. He formed one in that ultra-fast "attack" sequence that him and Madara had where they literally determined who was faster in reaction time: Madara's space-time ability or Minato's FTG technique. Minato came out on top, literally.


Also, as I've been arguing, Minato's strength is really high up there. He didn't release the rasengan into Madara until after driving Madara into the ground, making a very large crater. Q99's argument was the rasengan did most of the damage. My argument is Minato's strength is was thing the did all of the ground damage but the rasengan is the thing that damaged Madara's back AFTER he released it.


IMO, that's one of the strongest "feats" seen by a non-biju character. Just look at all the ground around Madara.


I compared it to the damage that A did in the ground with Sasuke's body.

I think A's is slightly larger, but not by much.



Also, my interpretation of those words about A are this:

1. It was an exaggeration about A's actual speed. They were just using a past legend to make a comparison to. Similar to B saying Naruto was ultra fast, like Minato, when he first used his mastered kyuubi chakra.

2. It was referring to the amped version of A.




I think Minato could take out A, much easier, with the same tactic he used against Madara. In fact, I think the fight could be over very quickly. A seems to take a bit to amp himself up as it shows him actually amping whereas, Minato, instantly created a large rasengan during the ultra-fast exchange he had with Madara.




Based on feats, Sage Mode Naruto is stronger than A. A, based on his feat, is barely a level 5 in strength.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
And since his attacks are so easily noticeable, Minato should have no problem with them. And when teh Kunai are everywhere, Minato ports from point A to B without a care in the world. And even barring that, Minato is notably quite fast and has remarkable reaction time. FTG just makes him more of a menace.


His attacks are only noticeable if:

a) He's charging straight at his opponent, who should have reflexes comparable to a Three Tomoe user or a CS2 user.
b) He is using his Level 1 Shroud.

Him blitzing Sasuke (of all people) showed that he can in fact make his attacks unnoticeable, if not through trickery, then through sheer speed and 'agility'.

Minato only ports when he's in danger, or when he's about to make an attack. Putting a seal on Raikage is out, since I doubt he can touch him without getting shocked.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Which, there is the argument. Naruto's normal rasengan is just as strong as Sasuke's chidori, which actually did pierce the shroud. Minato's is comparably bigger and likely more powerful. It could very well tear the shroud up. Which is what the rasengan would do instead of piercing. And repeated uses of it could very well be damaging to Raikage, especially considering how quickly he can attack in succession and how quickly he can form the rasengan.

Which again, Gamabunta.

Yes, it pierced the shroud BECAUSE Chidori pierces stuff, and far better than Rasengan does. The Rasengan is akin to a powerful grinding punch, not a stabbing blade. The Rasengan never 'tore up' Madara, or any other person for that matter, so I doubt it could do that to the Raiton shroud.
Simply saying the Rasengan will damage the shroud because it matches up with the Chidori is faulty.

That said, it's hard to say how the shroud would react to Rasengan, because we haven't seen such a case. I suspect we'll see one in the next chapter.
On one hand, Chidori, one of the best penetrative type attacks (especially in the hands, no pun intended, of someone as fast as Sasuke), failed to significantly injure the Raikage. On the other hand, Amaterasu went through the shroud as if it weren't even there.

Meh, Raikage would just punch through Gama's brain awesome

That said, my money is actually on Minato for now, due to FTG, whereas the Raikage is pretty much a one-trick pony with incredible speed and reflexes. It just so happens that people seem to think that Minato is as fast as the Raikage when it comes to pure movement speed.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Feats of A's reaction time which wasn't due to any telegraphed attack would be nice.


I'd like some for Minato too.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Also, my interpretation of those words about A are this:

1. It was an exaggeration about A's actual speed. They were just using a past legend to make a comparison to. Similar to B saying Naruto was ultra fast, like Minato, when he first used his mastered kyuubi chakra.

2. It was referring to the amped version of A.


2. No.

http://manga.bleachexile.com/naruto-chapter-462-page-3.html
http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-462/page003.html

As for the anime:

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q289/Rising_god_Phoenix/RaikageReflexes1.jpg
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q289/Rising_god_Phoenix/RaikageReflexes1.jpg?t=1306705444

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q289/Rising_god_Phoenix/RaikageReflexes2.jpg
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q289/Rising_god_Phoenix/RaikageReflexes2.jpg?t=1306705444

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q289/Rising_god_Phoenix/RaikageReflexes3.jpg
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q289/Rising_god_Phoenix/RaikageReflexes3.jpg?t=1306705446

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q289/Rising_god_Phoenix/RaikageReflexes4.jpg
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q289/Rising_god_Phoenix/RaikageReflexes4.jpg?t=1306705448

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q289/Rising_god_Phoenix/RaikageReflexes5.jpg
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q289/Rising_god_Phoenix/RaikageReflexes5.jpg?t=1306705451

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q289/Rising_god_Phoenix/RaikageReflexes6.jpg
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q289/Rising_god_Phoenix/RaikageReflexes6.jpg?t=1306705452


~ C talks about Raikage's reflexes before mentioning the shroud, which means he was talking about his base state. He then makes note of the shroud amping the Raikage's reflexes to the point where even the Sharingan could not keep up.
He compared the Raikage to Minato before mentioning the shroud. Ergo, Raikage's reflexes and reaction speed in his base state are roughly equal to Minato's, but much superior to Minato's once the shroud is up.
You can take it to mean pure movement speed if you want, seeing as C talks about 'keeping up', but either way, it's Raikage (Raiton Shroud) >> Minato = Raikage (Base)

Yep...Minato wins pretty much because of FTG.

I wonder if that tech Minato used to teleport away the kyuubi blast would work on people instaed of attacks alone.

This might be off topic but why didn't A hit Sasuke again with the arm that was on fire? I mean, he had enough tolerance to ignore the pain so if he smacked him again, wouldn't Sasuke have to turn the flames off in order to not be burned by his own attack?

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
His attacks are only noticeable if:

a) He's charging straight at his opponent, who should have reflexes comparable to a Three Tomoe user or a CS2 user.
b) He is using his Level 1 Shroud.

Suigetsu noticed and reacted to his attack. :O



Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
I'd like some for Minato too.

Kay. Here's two:

Minato reacts to an explosion while it is happening! He manages to toss a kunai and port to it. :O

Kyuubi attacks Kushina! And Minato ports, gets her, and then either throws a kunai again or leaps really quickly. Need to be able to react like a bastard to do that.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Suigetsu noticed and reacted to his attack. :O

But Suigetsu's easily upper tier when it comes to reactions and movement speed. :O



Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Kay. Here's two:

Minato reacts to an explosion while it is happening! He manages to toss a kunai and port to it. :O

Kyuubi attacks Kushina! And Minato ports, gets her, and then either throws a kunai again or leaps really quickly. Need to be able to react like a bastard to do that.

Sasuke's reacted to an explosion as well iirc, as has Madara, so reacting to paper tag explosions should be within A's capabilities.
I don't get the second one because I don't really see Minato porting to a kunai he threw. He simply jumps out of the house that he ported to.

But nice one with the Kyuubi attack. Never noticed that for some reason.

Sasuke tries to blitz Raikage, but he is able to quickly see Sasuke behind him
Raikage stops his attack as soon as he sees Amaterasu's flames around Susano'o

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
But Suigetsu's easily upper tier when it comes to reactions and movement speed. :O

And Minato is superior to Suigetsu, agreed? :3


Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Sasuke tries to blitz Raikage, but he is able to quickly see Sasuke behind him
Raikage stops his attack as soon as he sees Amaterasu's flames around Susano'o

Minato reacts to Madara from behind.

Minato and Kushina react to the Kyuubi while both are significantly weak.

Minato reacts to an attack on Kakashi, who is moving incredibly fast at the time.

Minato reacts to an attack on Obito.

Then proceeds to do the same for Kakashi.

Minato is unrivaled. awesome

Which, I don't know why I'm arguing with you. You think Minato wins! Which I agree.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
His attacks are only noticeable if:

a) He's charging straight at his opponent, who should have reflexes comparable to a Three Tomoe user or a CS2 user.
b) He is using his Level 1 Shroud.

Him blitzing Sasuke (of all people) showed that he can in fact make his attacks unnoticeable, if not through trickery, then through sheer speed and 'agility'.

Minato only ports when he's in danger, or when he's about to make an attack. Putting a seal on Raikage is out, since I doubt he can touch him without getting shocked.



Yes, it pierced the shroud BECAUSE Chidori pierces stuff, and far better than Rasengan does. The Rasengan is akin to a powerful grinding punch, not a stabbing blade. The Rasengan never 'tore up' Madara, or any other person for that matter, so I doubt it could do that to the Raiton shroud.
Simply saying the Rasengan will damage the shroud because it matches up with the Chidori is faulty.

That said, it's hard to say how the shroud would react to Rasengan, because we haven't seen such a case. I suspect we'll see one in the next chapter.
On one hand, Chidori, one of the best penetrative type attacks (especially in the hands, no pun intended, of someone as fast as Sasuke), failed to significantly injure the Raikage. On the other hand, Amaterasu went through the shroud as if it weren't even there.

Meh, Raikage would just punch through Gama's brain awesome

That said, my money is actually on Minato for now, due to FTG, whereas the Raikage is pretty much a one-trick pony with incredible speed and reflexes. It just so happens that people seem to think that Minato is as fast as the Raikage when it comes to pure movement speed.



I'd like some for Minato too.



2. No.

http://manga.bleachexile.com/naruto-chapter-462-page-3.html
http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-462/page003.html

As for the anime:

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q289/Rising_god_Phoenix/RaikageReflexes1.jpg
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q289/Rising_god_Phoenix/RaikageReflexes1.jpg?t=1306705444

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q289/Rising_god_Phoenix/RaikageReflexes2.jpg
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q289/Rising_god_Phoenix/RaikageReflexes2.jpg?t=1306705444

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q289/Rising_god_Phoenix/RaikageReflexes3.jpg
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q289/Rising_god_Phoenix/RaikageReflexes3.jpg?t=1306705446

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q289/Rising_god_Phoenix/RaikageReflexes4.jpg
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q289/Rising_god_Phoenix/RaikageReflexes4.jpg?t=1306705448

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q289/Rising_god_Phoenix/RaikageReflexes5.jpg
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q289/Rising_god_Phoenix/RaikageReflexes5.jpg?t=1306705451

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q289/Rising_god_Phoenix/RaikageReflexes6.jpg
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q289/Rising_god_Phoenix/RaikageReflexes6.jpg?t=1306705452


~ C talks about Raikage's reflexes before mentioning the shroud, which means he was talking about his base state. He then makes note of the shroud amping the Raikage's reflexes to the point where even the Sharingan could not keep up.
He compared the Raikage to Minato before mentioning the shroud. Ergo, Raikage's reflexes and reaction speed in his base state are roughly equal to Minato's, but much superior to Minato's once the shroud is up.
You can take it to mean pure movement speed if you want, seeing as C talks about 'keeping up', but either way, it's Raikage (Raiton Shroud) >> Minato = Raikage (Base)



I am 100% correct: A ALREADY has the raiton armor on.

Since I win...what now?

*does the pwn dance...which is similar to how a retarded white man dances*



Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Minato is unrivaled. awesome

Oh, here's the justification for why Minato is a 5 in strength:
"Unrivaled strength." lol

Originally posted by dadudemon
I am 100% correct: A ALREADY has the raiton armor on.

Since I win...what now?

*does the pwn dance...which is similar to how a retarded white man dances* You are trolling right?

If not, you don't actually know how debating works do you?

It is actually conflicting though.

What he says doesn't make sense. He is in the shroud and people react to him just fine. Was he ever not in the shroud during the fight?

I mean yeah, when he steps it up to the point where his hair stands up it becomes damn near impossible to react, but that isn't until later. Sasuke shows himself perfectly able to react to A when he has the shroud on.

Come to think of it, a lot of what C says is weird to me.

Originally posted by NemeBro
You are trolling right?

If not, you don't actually know how debating works do you?

If this is what you call a legitimate "rebuttal", you might want to go back to the drawing board. Come up with something other than "nuh uhhhh!" and "WAAAH! YOUZ TROLLIN'!"

See below:

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
It is actually conflicting though.

What he says doesn't make sense. He is in the shroud and people react to him just fine. Was he ever not in the shroud during the fight?

I mean yeah, when he steps it up to the point where his hair stands up it becomes damn near impossible to react, but that isn't until later. Sasuke shows himself perfectly able to react to A when he has the shroud on.

Come to think of it, a lot of what C says is weird to me.

You seem to be under the impression that I actually give a shit about this thread.

But fact of the matter is, Aura DID give a legitimate response to that post. You, however, did not.

If you think they are wrong, tell them why, saying "NUH UH AI WEHN" is not actually an argument.

So please do not use Aura's post as some kind of way to defend yourself against my criticism of your inadequate post.

Originally posted by NemeBro
You seem to be under the impression that I actually give a shit about this thread.

Originally posted by NemeBro
But fact of the matter is, Aura DID give a legitimate response to that post. You, however, did not.

You wanted me to state what was already known when I clearly already stated it? (AKA, he already had the shroud on.)

More than "he already had the shroud on" is not necessary for the point that I countered which was "he did not have the shroud on." Images were already posted that showed that he had the shroud on.


Further discussion would be retarded, meaning, you can kindly cease the lame attempt to save face.




Originally posted by NemeBro
If you think they are wrong, tell them why, saying "NUH UH AI WEHN" is not actually an argument.

Think WHO are wrong? If you are responding to the topic I just responded to, above, read it and STFU.


Originally posted by NemeBro
So please do not use Aura's post as some kind of way to defend yourself against my criticism of your inadequate post.

Please do not pretend that I did not already address your complaint before you even had the complaint simply because you didn't read the thread because you don't "actually give a shit about this thread."


The only thing Aura's post did was expand what we already knew and was established BEFORE your b*tch-feast.

Name dropping. cry

Originally posted by dadudemon
You wanted me to state what was already known when I clearly already stated it? (AKA, he already had the shroud on.)

More than "he already had the shroud on" is not necessary for the point that I countered which was "he did not have the shroud on." Images were already posted that showed that he had the shroud on.

Further discussion would be retarded, meaning, you can kindly cease the lame attempt to save face.

Think WHO are wrong? If you are responding to the topic I just responded to, above, read it and STFU.

Please do not pretend that I did not already address your complaint before you even had the complaint simply because you didn't read the thread because you don't "actually give a shit about this thread."

The only thing Aura's post did was expand what we already knew and was established BEFORE your b*tch-feast. 1. He did have it on. Yet that does not disprove the point DP was making.

2. Only yes, it very much is, since the statement "Raikage=Yellow Flash blahblah" is, according to DP's evidence and argument, referring to him without the shroud. That said, I don't really agree with his evidence, but I also disagree with your "method" of disproving it. Quite frankly I am surprised no one has pointed out the obvious: C is a fallible character.

3. Save face from what? Me calling you out on your method of "debate?" The one you use ALL the time? "HAHA YER WRAUNG I WIN." It's not like this is the first time you have done this either, so don't sit there and pretend your method of arguing was legit, it was not.

4. No, it was necessary. "LOL HE ALREADY HAD SHROUD UP I IS WINNAR" is not an argument. "He had the shroud up the entire fight, Sasuke and his asspals only were keeping up with him using Lightning Release Armour," that would have actually been an argument.

5. Only I did read the thread.

6. No no, see my friend, you simply need to learn to post better. In your arrogance you believe your post to have been adequate, it wasn't.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel

I mean yeah, when he steps it up to the point where his hair stands up it becomes damn near impossible to react, but that isn't until later. Sasuke shows himself perfectly able to react to A when he has the shroud on.

Keep in mind Sasuke's one of the really fast ninja around to start with.

Lightning shroud makes him "faster than a really fast ninja like Sasuke with sharingan, but still can be reacted to." Charged-lightning shroud makes even someone like that flatfooted.

Minato is faster than Sasuke.

Suigetsu can react to A.

Minato is probably able to react if Suigetsu can. :O

meh, it's not like sasuke hasn't reacted to linear attacks before; he did so with the super fast bee as well, but when the latter started doing erratic movements sasuke was up shit creek using his tongue as a paddle.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
And Minato is superior to Suigetsu, agreed? :3


Not unless Minato gains a big-f***ing-sword, and the ability to pump up his arms instantaneously. awesome


Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Minato reacts to Madara from behind.

Minato and Kushina react to the Kyuubi while both are significantly weak.

Minato reacts to an attack on Kakashi, who is moving incredibly fast at the time.

Minato reacts to an attack on Obito.

Then proceeds to do the same for Kakashi.

Minato is unrivaled. awesome

Which, I don't know why I'm arguing with you. You think Minato wins! Which I agree.

1. Madara is moving too slow.
2. So was the Kyuubi 313
3. He's reacting to the speed of the kunais, not Kakashi.
4. Pretty good, but not as impressive as Darui reacting to an attack on Raikage by Sasuke313
5. 'Telegraphed' by the fool's shout. That said, if that wasn't FTG, it would be a very impressive speed feat.
6. Damn. Can't argue with this. BUT:
White Zetsu already knows about Madara's teleportation 'speed', but is completely surprised by Raikage's speed. Clearly, Raikage is FTL and unrivaled in speed. awesome


Raikage moves faster than Sasuke's ability to see through low-level genjutsu
Raikage reacts at the same time as Sasuke who reacted as fast as Itachi did who later reacted to Lightning, while weakened.
vin

Arguing for the sake of arguing?

Originally posted by dadudemon
I am 100% correct: A ALREADY has the raiton armor on.

Since I win...what now?

*does the pwn dance...which is similar to how a retarded white man dances*

Yes, A already has the Raiton shroud on, but that is irrelevant to the Minato-A reflex argument as C states that Raikage's reflexes were comparable to Minato's, and this is BEFORE he mentioned the shroud.
After that comparison, he goes on to state that the shroud augmented his reflexes.
Then there's the fact that the Raikage can amp up his shroud even further to increase his reflexes. So either way, it works out to Raikage being superior to Minato in terms of reflexes as far as C is concerned.

Whether or not he's right is another matter entirely, and one I'm not going to concern myself with, seeing as we have currently have no way to determine if he actually has seen Minato in action (or talked to someone who has seen both Minato & A in action, like Killerbee) or is basing it on basic knowledge.

I would think at the very least, Charged-shroud A would be able to react to and fight with Minato.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
It is actually conflicting though.

What he says doesn't make sense. He is in the shroud and people react to him just fine. Was he ever not in the shroud during the fight?

I mean yeah, when he steps it up to the point where his hair stands up it becomes damn near impossible to react, but that isn't until later. Sasuke shows himself perfectly able to react to A when he has the shroud on.

Come to think of it, a lot of what C says is weird to me.

Or we're looking at this in the wrong way?
For intstance, Minato & Raikage have comparable refexes, and the guys in Taka (Suigetsu & Juugo, seeing as Sasuke never really reacted to A before this statement) have somethingh close to this level?
This was just after the Raikage had stated that the Sharingan was nothing to him, which was after Sasuke had tried to trap him in a genjutsu.

That said, yeah, C is fallible, but we don't know what he's basing his statement on (concerning Minato & Raikage), and seeing as it is Kishi's only comment on the matter so far, it should have some weight.

EDIT: Also, his stance may have changed after the fight..especially after seeing Sasuke react to Raikage's elbow.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
1. Madara is moving too slow.
2. So was the Kyuubi 313
3. He's reacting to the speed of the kunais, not Kakashi.
4. Pretty good, but not as impressive as Darui reacting to an attack on Raikage by Sasuke313
5. 'Telegraphed' by the fool's shout. That said, if that wasn't FTG, it would be a very impressive speed feat.
6. Damn. Can't argue with this. BUT:
White Zetsu already knows about Madara's teleportation 'speed', but is completely surprised by Raikage's speed. Clearly, Raikage is FTL and unrivaled in speed. awesome

1. To your untrained eye,
2. He was fueled with Rage/Hatred.
3. And throws them faster than Kakashi can run.
4. Sasuke was going slow.
5. I don't think it was personally.
6. I cannot get the images. :O


Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Raikage moves faster than Sasuke's ability to see through low-level genjutsu
Raikage reacts at the same time as Sasuke who reacted as fast as Itachi did who later reacted to Lightning, while weakened.
vin

Sasuke was planning something so he waited.

Itachi was not trying his hardest against Sasuke.

Hi Aura. :3

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
1. To your untrained eye,
2. He was fueled with Rage/Hatred.
3. And throws them faster than Kakashi can run.
4. Sasuke was going slow.
5. I don't think it was personally.
6. I cannot get the images. :O


1. Proof that my eye is untrained? Madara is moving slow, just like I said, so if any eye is untrained, tis yours old chap.
2. He's always been fueled with Rage/Hatred, and constantly been made to look second-best.
3. So Kunai > Kakashi.
4. He's far faster than Madara and that Iwa ninja.
5. Hmm...I do.
6. Keep trying, you should be able to get those images if you got the others.
Otherwise, Chap. 396 p.7 & Chap. 460 p.3


313
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Sasuke was planning something so he waited.

Itachi was not trying his hardest against Sasuke.

Nah, Sasuke doesn't like being caught in genjutsu, so he wouldn't plan anything during that.

Madara was lying about that.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Hi Aura. :3

Damn, now he's going to get sentimental, seeing as you used his name.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Hi Aura. :3

*Feels accepted*



Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
1. Proof that my eye is untrained? Madara is moving slow, just like I said, so if any eye is untrained, tis yours old chap.
2. He's always been fueled with Rage/Hatred, and constantly been made to look second-best.
3. So Kunai > Kakashi.
4. He's far faster than Madara and that Iwa ninja.
5. Hmm...I do.
6. Keep trying, you should be able to get those images if you got the others.
Otherwise, Chap. 396 p.7 & Chap. 460 p.3


313

1. It's yours?
2. Sorta like A. vin
3. Minato's Kunai anyway.
4. Not when Jugo can speak a full sentence while Sasuke is running.
5. The reason I don't is because Rin is using her thought bubble describing it later. :O
6. I knew which chapters anyway. And nah. Zetsu can still be surprised by the speed without it being lightspeed. And Minato is still unrivaled.


Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Nah, Sasuke doesn't like being caught in genjutsu, so he wouldn't plan anything during that.

Madara was lying about that.

He likes toying with his enemies.

Maybe Madara is lying about you?



Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Damn, now he's going to get sentimental, seeing as you used his name.

Yep. cry

What a sissy.

Originally posted by NemeBro
1. He did have it on. Yet that does not disprove the point DP was making.

2. Only yes, it very much is, since the statement "Raikage=Yellow Flash blahblah" is, according to DP's evidence and argument, referring to him without the shroud. That said, I don't really agree with his evidence, but I also disagree with your "method" of disproving it. Quite frankly I am surprised no one has pointed out the obvious: C is a fallible character.

3. Save face from what? Me calling you out on your method of "debate?" The one you use ALL the time? "HAHA YER WRAUNG I WIN." It's not like this is the first time you have done this either, so don't sit there and pretend your method of arguing was legit, it was not.

4. No, it was necessary. "LOL HE ALREADY HAD SHROUD UP I IS WINNAR" is not an argument. "He had the shroud up the entire fight, Sasuke and his asspals only were keeping up with him using Lightning Release Armour," that would have actually been an argument.

5. Only I did read the thread.

6. No no, see my friend, you simply need to learn to post better. In your arrogance you believe your post to have been adequate, it wasn't.


Cry harder, please. Just fess up that you did not realize what I was saying and deal. This entire argument hinges on you not reading or understanding things that occurred, prior, in the thread. No need to try and save face any further, on your part.

The simple fact that AA knew exactly what I was talking about proves that you are the odd man out, on this one. It is "your arrogance" that prevents you from admitting this.


1. Still doesn't change what I said abou the subject, overall. Do I REALLY have to quote where it was said he didn't have it on?

2. He did have the shroud, end of. It's the difference between level 1 and 2 that is in question, of which, I never addressed nor will I ever as it's impossible to determine how things stack up.

3. Nice: instead of addressing the point, you try and turn it back on me with a point you've already made and I've already addressed. Try harder to not talk in circles.

4. Let me show you how silly this point is: ZOMG! LIEK, U TOE TALL EE DID NOT EVEN SAY DIS B 4! YOU SHOULD BE CLEARER! DUR The fact that I never argued against that point is irrelevent you A fanboy.

5. Den moar comprehensions on ur part, pleez.

6. Addressed this already: I am serious when I say, "no u."

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Whether or not he's right is another matter entirely, and one I'm not going to concern myself with, seeing as we have currently have no way to determine if he actually has seen Minato in action (or talked to someone who has seen both Minato & A in action, like Killerbee) or is basing it on basic knowledge.

This was more my point and a reason that I did not care to entertain it beyond "A already had his level 1 shroud up."

I am of the opinion that he was talking about level 1 A shroud.


There's also a major problem of that guy really being too young to even have seen The Yellow Flash in action.

Sorry for the triple post:


Could someone prove that A's speed increased with his second amp?


Additionally, I do not read that A's speed, without the electrical amp, is like that at base. It's like that with the electrical amp. Additionally, he's only that fast/has that reaction time WITH the electrical amps. You guys are reading what was stated by C, incorrectly.


Additionally, there's no reason to believe that he got any faster/increased his reaction time with the second amp. He could have just increased his strength. In fact, his best speed feats are in his first level electrical form.




Additionally, there's not speed feat comparable to the instant movement (without FTG) to Minato taking his son while Madara was slash attacking, and ending up on the well behind Madara. Unless, of course, you think Madara is slow.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Cry harder, please. Just fess up that you did not realize what I was saying and deal. This entire argument hinges on you not reading or understanding things that occurred, prior, in the thread. No need to try and save face any further, on your part.

The simple fact that AA knew exactly what I was talking about proves that you are the odd man out, on this one. It is "your arrogance" that prevents you from admitting this.


1. Still doesn't change what I said abou the subject, overall. Do I REALLY have to quote where it was said he didn't have it on?

2. He did have the shroud, end of. It's the difference between level 1 and 2 that is in question, of which, I never addressed nor will I ever as it's impossible to determine how things stack up.

3. Nice: instead of addressing the point, you try and turn it back on me with a point you've already made and I've already addressed. Try harder to not talk in circles.

4. Let me show you how silly this point is: ZOMG! LIEK, U TOE TALL EE DID NOT EVEN SAY DIS B 4! YOU SHOULD BE CLEARER! DUR The fact that I never argued against that point is irrelevent you A fanboy.

5. Den moar comprehensions on ur part, pleez.

6. Addressed this already: I am serious when I say, "no u." You were saying "He already had the shroud up I win."

That was your post in shorter words. I read the thread in its entirety (Although I was too lazy to click on most of the links admittedly), I know what you were saying. I just don't think the way you went about saying it was sufficient.

That said, I will admit I was probably too offensive when I came into this thread, and I apologise for that.

1. No, but that is not really what DP said. He was saying that C said Raikage at base is already has reactions equal to Minato. Which I think is probably hyperbole personally, but whatever.

2. I know he had the shroud. And why not address it? To be honest, it would be more baseless to assume the level 2 of his shroud did not increase his speed further, at least based on logic, since it is a technique that increases strength and speed, logically a higher level would do so to a greater extent, no? That said, I cannot be entirely sure I am right about this, largely because I forgot at what point A begins using the level 2 shroud. Oh, and you actually did not so much as mention the level 2 Lightning Release Armour until this post, right now. So clearly it wasn't in question at all, with the only post that referenced the Raiton Armour actually had a level too being DP's first post.

3. Please do not pretend that line in particular that I was responding to had an actual "point," beyond accusing me of saving face.

4. When you speak in all caps to mock who you are replying to, try to be clearer, since I am having trouble understanding what you are saying at the moment. And no, it is not irrelevant. He made a point that you did not really debate. This is a debate. Therefore, you should actually debate it. Also, "A fanboy"? Not only have I not said who would win in this thread, but let it be known that I DO in fact believe Minato should win, based on both feats and hype. Do I like A better as a character? Yes, Minato bores the piss out of me. But I hardly consider myself an A fanboy.

5. I comprehend the thread just fine.

6. No u.

This thread is weird. Everyone thinks Minato will win except Q99 and that other guy, and yet they aren't really doing any arguing.

That said, level 2 of the Armor was used around the time Sasuke activated his MS. Though it isn't called that I don't think, A still seems to be different, what with his hair standing up and such.

And hey cowboy, I thought A was like your favorite Naruto character evar? Or did Random Love Letter Guy take that spot?

I do like A. I am a fan of both him and his brother. Although they do pale compared to Random Love Letter Guy, who is by far the most incredibly amazing character in Naruto.

But it is not like I do not like other characters as much as A or B.

Like who out of curiosity?

Zabuza, Kisame, Madara, Jiraiya, Onoki, Hinata (<3), Temari, Hashirama (I really don't know why to be honest), after Konan's admittedly badass last stand she has won my favour as well, to name a few.

Can I call this thread over now?

Yea, no surprise that a draw is the most likely outcome. And hey, new info!

Raikage showed high-speed combat and the ability to fight and react with a very high speed foe without problem, in 'mere' normal level armor.

If they did fight to the finish, unlike any of their historic fights, even if Minato could get 2 or 3 solid hits for every 1 A dishes out, A should eventually come out on top.

Unless Minato can pull something with his sealing jutsu at least (even if A is able to win in a direct fight due to power matchups, Minato has a wider range of powers), though I don't see how he'd be able to apply them without the ability to touch A through the armor.

Though Raikage says Minato would never be surpassed, which indicates that Minato was equal or above him when they fought.

I could be a complete douche and say Minato can always make this a tie with one sealing technique...

That said, A doesn't think anyone would surpass Minato. So I'd say Minato actually won those battles in the past more often than not.

A's words clearly indicate he thought of Minato as superior to him.

From the start we've known that Minato has additional areas of speciality that add to his power but are of little use against A (seals, space-time barrier), so I don't think acknowledging him as overall the more powerful ninja changes the equation between them.

Hmmm...

Minato uses FTG to get behind A, hit him with Rasengan. And then when A attacks, space time barrier to send his fist into A's own back through a seal placed there.

:O

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Hmmm...

Minato uses FTG to get behind A, hit him with Rasengan. And then when A attacks, space time barrier to send his fist into A's own back through a seal placed there.

:O

Space-time barrier takes setup time

No more than other jutsu. And with FTG, he has plenty of time. :O

Originally posted by NemeBro
You were saying "He already had the shroud up I win."

That was your post in shorter words. I read the thread in its entirety (Although I was too lazy to click on most of the links admittedly), I know what you were saying. I just don't think the way you went about saying it was sufficient.

That said, I will admit I was probably too offensive when I came into this thread, and I apologise for that.

1. No, but that is not really what DP said. He was saying that C said Raikage at base is already has reactions equal to Minato. Which I think is probably hyperbole personally, but whatever.

2. I know he had the shroud. And why not address it? To be honest, it would be more baseless to assume the level 2 of his shroud did not increase his speed further, at least based on logic, since it is a technique that increases strength and speed, logically a higher level would do so to a greater extent, no? That said, I cannot be entirely sure I am right about this, largely because I forgot at what point A begins using the level 2 shroud. Oh, and you actually did not so much as mention the level 2 Lightning Release Armour until this post, right now. So clearly it wasn't in question at all, with the only post that referenced the Raiton Armour actually had a level too being DP's first post.

3. Please do not pretend that line in particular that I was responding to had an actual "point," beyond accusing me of saving face.

4. When you speak in all caps to mock who you are replying to, try to be clearer, since I am having trouble understanding what you are saying at the moment. And no, it is not irrelevant. He made a point that you did not really debate. This is a debate. Therefore, you should actually debate it. Also, "A fanboy"? Not only have I not said who would win in this thread, but let it be known that I DO in fact believe Minato should win, based on both feats and hype. Do I like A better as a character? Yes, Minato bores the piss out of me. But I hardly consider myself an A fanboy.

5. I comprehend the thread just fine.

6. No u.


I told you I wouldn't debate your stupidity, further.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Just fess up that you did not realize what I was saying and deal. This entire argument hinges on you not reading or understanding things that occurred, prior, in the thread. No need to try and save face any further, on your part.

The simple fact that AA knew exactly what I was talking about proves that you are the odd man out, on this one. It is "your arrogance" that prevents you from admitting this.

Originally posted by Q99
Space-time barrier takes setup time

It did not seem like he had much time to set it up. How much time, relative to other jutsu, do you think it took to setup?

Originally posted by dadudemon
I told you I wouldn't debate your stupidity, further. Kay.

But yeah, it seems pretty clear that Minato would win.

What, use FTG to make distance and then set it up? A'd just go around the barrier.

And it definitely wouldn't let him set it up in the situation you outlined of using it in response to a punch.


Originally posted by dadudemon
It did not seem like he had much time to set it up. How much time, relative to other jutsu, do you think it took to setup?

It looked to be faster than the charge of the menace ball but did require multiple hand signs, and he also had his hands in a specific formation with a kunai the entire time it was active, so it's something he needs to hold up. Not a super-long time, but not something that's useful against a fast HtH attack.


It's a powerful defensive jutsu but doesn't grant the kind of hijinks Aura suggested and it strikes me as being ill-suited for use against A's style of attacks specifically (it would be great, however, against someone like Deidara, Naruto's rasenshuriken, or possibly even Onoki's big attacks).

Originally posted by Q99
What, use FTG to make distance and then set it up? A'd just go around the barrier.

And it definitely wouldn't let him set it up in the situation you outlined of using it in response to a punch.

A knows about it now?

Why? I've never seen any limits on the technique. :O

Seeing as how Minato is regared as the supeior combatant, what's really being argued now?

Oh! If you saw a barrier being set up, wouldn't you want to find a way around it.

That's just it, it doesn't look like a barrier is being set up.

Besides, A prefers to crash through defenses rather than get around them.

It worked for fighting Uchihas

P.S: You'd expect A to have something like the Black Lightning since he's the son of the Third Raikage yet nothing?

Indeed.

And I do wonder about that. Black Lighting is a long range attack it would seem and that really isn't A's style I suppose.

darui is the successor of the black lightning

I understand Darui's the successor, I don't understand why the Third Raikage taught him over A.

If it's a bloodline limit, then why shouldn't A have learned since he's the Raikage's son?

Someone pointed out in the main Naruto thread a good point: That A has likely gotten stronger since he fought Minato.

So A pulling off a win seems a little more likely, though honestly I still kinda doubt it.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Someone pointed out in the main Naruto thread a good point: That A has likely gotten stronger since he fought Minato.

Oh my. What an insightful person he must have been. http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-allears.gif

Originally posted by NemeBro
Someone pointed out in the main Naruto thread a good point: That A has likely gotten stronger since he fought Minato.

So A pulling off a win seems a little more likely, though honestly I still kinda doubt it.
On the other hand, he's also lost an arm since then.

Main reason I didn't bring it up.

and minato lost his entire life

see what i did there? biscuits

Minato lost his life because he chose to lose it, not cause someone was good enough to take it.

A lost his arm because he chose to lose it, not because Sausgay was good enough to take it.

Nah, he was. A just wasn't his main concern at the moment. awesome

Originally posted by Nephthys
A lost his arm because he chose to lose it, not because Sausgay was good enough to take it.
That is true... and more and more it seems like a completely insane move. His super-bitchslap attack to Sasuke was not worth an arm.

Originally posted by King Kandy
That is true... and more and more it seems like a completely insane move. His super-bitchslap attack to Sasuke was not worth an arm. Yeah.

I struggle to call it "manly," because how can something so stupid be manly?

If anything, Minato is leagues above A in intelligence.

Well, A is not "dumb," per say.

He is just exceedingly stubborn.

But yeah, Minato is almost definitely more intelligent than A. Probably one of the more intelligent characters in the series I guess, the only characters that come to mind who I would say are definitely more intelligent are assholes like Madara.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Yeah.

I struggle to call it "manly," because how can something so stupid be manly?
It's one of those things that I thought were cool at first, but really didn't hold up to scrutiny.

Indeed.

At first it is like "OH HOLY SHIT DAWG PUNCHED THROUGH SUSANO'O TO **** UP SASUKE DUDE DOESNT EVEN CARE HIS ARM IS ON FIRE!"

But then, when it became apparent he was not replacing it, in hindsight it seems... Stupid.

Originally posted by NemeBro
But yeah, it seems pretty clear that Minato would win.


SWWEEET!!!

Naruto: "You are pretty fast grandpa Raikage"
Raikage: "I am the fastest shinobi alive, now that the forth hokage has passed away"
Naruto: "You knew my dad?"
Raikage: "We butted heads on more then one occasion. He was a great man, one I thought would never be surpassed"

So, no guys, Raikage isn't faster then Minato, even for his own account. Besides in manga it says that Raikage is on Minato's level WITH raiton armor. And according to A's on quote, he thought Minato was the greatest shinobi alive at his time.

Originally posted by Darth Angel






Naruto: "You are pretty fast grandpa Raikage"
Raikage: "I am the fastest shinobi alive, now that the forth hokage has passed away"
Naruto: "You knew my dad?"
Raikage: "We butted heads on more then one occasion. He was a great man, one I thought would never be surpassed"

So, no guys, Raikage isn't faster then Minato, even for his own account. Besides in manga it says that Raikage is on Minato's level WITH raiton armor. And according to A's on quote, he thought Minato was the greatest shinobi alive at his time.

We were talking about reflexes, not speed.
Thanks to FTG, Minato is obviously much 'faster' for all intents and purposes. It's got hardly any lag (limited by Minato's reactions, which are considerably high), is obviously not limited by distance, and is hardly chakra intensive, meaning he can spam it to his heart's content.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel

1. It's yours?
2. Sorta like A. vin
3. Minato's Kunai anyway.
4. Not when Jugo can speak a full sentence while Sasuke is running.
5. The reason I don't is because Rin is using her thought bubble describing it later. :O
6. I knew which chapters anyway. And nah. Zetsu can still be surprised by the speed without it being lightspeed. And Minato is still unrivaled.


1. You never took my eye!
2. Nothing like A. A has made Naruto & Sasuke look second best. No one else in the manga has done that.
3. Minato was throwing normal kunai.
4. Just Like how Kushina can scream two names while an explosion is happening that Minato out speeds.
5. Rin didn't know about FTG. Not to mention, she had that thought after Minato definitely used FTG.
6. If he isn't surprised by Light-speed movement, what makes you think he'll be surprised by much slower movement? At the very least, Raikage is close to Light-speed in base mode awesome
Only in strength. Speed still belongs to A, despite A's own words. He's fueled by Rage.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel

He likes toying with his enemies.

Maybe Madara is lying about you?


He's never toyed with anyone in Part 2.

He cannot comprehend me, so he could not possibly lie about me.


Originally posted by TheAuraAngel

Yep. cry

Wuss.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
This thread is weird. Everyone thinks Minato will win except Q99 and that other guy, and yet they aren't really doing any arguing.

That said, level 2 of the Armor was used around the time Sasuke activated his MS. Though it isn't called that I don't think, A still seems to be different, what with his hair standing up and such.


It isn't called anything.
It's just an intense activation of the shroud, to the point where his chakra usage likely reaches Hachibi levels.


Originally posted by dadudemon
This was more my point and a reason that I did not care to entertain it beyond "A already had his level 1 shroud up."

I am of the opinion that he was talking about level 1 A shroud.


There's also a major problem of that guy really being too young to even have seen The Yellow Flash in action.

Yeah, but your initial post did not convey that, but it is irrelevant.

Based on C's sentence construction, I am of the opinion that he was talking about A in Base mode.

We don't really know that. He seems about as old as Darui, who was around when the Third Raikage was alive.
A & B have both seen Minato in action, and C could have easily obtained his info from them, or could have formed his own conclusion based on what they told him about Minato's speed/reactions.

~ Arguing for the sake of arguing.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Well, A is not "dumb," per say.

He is just exceedingly stubborn.

But yeah, Minato is almost definitely more intelligent than A. Probably one of the more intelligent characters in the series I guess, the only characters that come to mind who I would say are definitely more intelligent are assholes like Madara. A's village is like fu(king wakanda bro, they have all the intell on everyone and stockpile arms just because.

he's a total throwback to the old days when all the villages were at each other's throats.

tyson would kill the shit out of stephen hawking

so cash

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Yeah, but your initial post did not convey that, but it is irrelevant.

It certainly did: I clearly said that he "already had his shroud on."

That should have been the end of it.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
We don't really know that. He seems about as old as Darui,

Proof?

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
A & B have both seen Minato in action,,

Proof?


Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
and C could have easily obtained his info from them, or could have formed his own conclusion based on what they told him about Minato's speed/reactions.

Proof?

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
~ Arguing for the sake of arguing.

AHA!


So your real intentions are known.

Well A definitely saw Minato in action, obviously.

B may have. Cannot recall.

Originally posted by dadudemon
It certainly did: I clearly said that he "already had his shroud on."

That should have been the end of it.


Right, and as I've pointed out, C's words do not agree with you.

Meh. This is getting pointless. We've all agreed that C is fallible, and that Minato would win more often than not.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Proof?

Your proof that he's too young to have seen Minato in action?
I merely came up with a claim to match your own.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Proof?

I don't need to comment on A seeing Minato in action.

B had a flashback to Minato using a Rasengan (with his kunai scattered about iirc), when Naruto told him about the Rasengan.

EDIT: Meh, read the latest chapter. Concrete proof. But that was obviously not what I was referring to.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Proof?

I'm sure A has not stated anything about a man he considers unsurpassable, to one of his right-hand men. The very idea is preposterous.

Originally posted by dadudemon
AHA!


So your real intentions are known.

Naturally. I revealed them.

Just see Naruto's last chapter, it gave the answer about the winner between A and Minato.

Unless A's improved since then.

A very likely possibility.

And we still haven't seen how Minato's supposed to get through the lightning armor.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Right, and as I've pointed out, C's words do not agree with you.

I disagree: his words agree with me. So, basically, "nuh-uh!"

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Your proof that he's too young to have seen Minato in action?
I merely came up with a claim to match your own.

C is very young looking. He looks barely older than Naruto, if at all.

He would have to be a very young child or even a toddler/newborn aroun the time A and Minato fought.



Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
I don't need to comment on A seeing Minato in action.

B had a flashback to Minato using a Rasengan (with his kunai scattered about iirc), when Naruto told him about the Rasengan.

EDIT: Meh, read the latest chapter. Concrete proof. But that was obviously not what I was referring to.

Awesome.




Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
I'm sure A has not stated anything about a man he considers unsurpassable, to one of his right-hand men. The very idea is preposterous.

Only because of how Arrogant A is.



Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Naturally. I revealed them.

I'd say he's older than Naruto, but yea, I'd place C at maybe 16-18.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I disagree: his words agree with me. So, basically, "nuh-uh!"

NO U.

Originally posted by dadudemon
C is very young looking. He looks barely older than Naruto, if at all.

He would have to be a very young child or even a toddler/newborn aroun the time A and Minato fought.

Darui looks young as well. Just so happens that like Minato & Sasuke, C happens to be something of a pretty-boy. Yet he's knowledgeable about Itachi & the Mangekyou Sharingan.


Originally posted by dadudemon
Only because of how Arrogant A is.


Regardless of how arrogant he is, he knows strength when he sees it.

I'm pretty sure that somewhere down the road, he'll be telling tales of how a teenager forced him to give up his preferred arm. 313

C's never been in a war before while Darui is Cloud's choice as a division leader. Between that and Darui being the 3rd's apprentice, I do think there's an age gap between them and not just an appearance one.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
NO U.

kitty Meow.



Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Darui looks young as well. Just so happens that like Minato & Sasuke, C happens to be something of a pretty-boy. Yet he's knowledgeable about Itachi & the Mangekyou Sharingan.

Darui looks closer to 30 than 16, though. C looks closer to 16 than 20. I know it's just a drawing...but he does look like a teen a little bit older than Naruto.





Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Regardless of how arrogant he is, he knows strength when he sees it.

Only to Naruto, Tsunade, and B. He's never talked "high" of someone other than this one moment. He's had enough dialogue, now, to have talked nice about someone. Well, there was that one time he was a bit surprised at Sasuke's chidori blade reaching his pecs.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
I'm pretty sure that somewhere down the road, he'll be telling tales of how a teenager forced him to give up his preferred arm. 313

Nah. It will be something like: "I fought against the mighty evil Sasuke and his hax mangekyou sharingan and I still kicked his arse. I only lost an arm and I WOULD have defeated him at the cost of my foot and ankle. Yup, I was that close to defeating one of the most powerful shinobi the world has known. Punk *ss b*tches ain't SH*T, yo! 313"

Originally posted by Q99
lightning armor. /thread

Well one could argue that A's shroud wasnt as strong as the version that fought sasuke. im pretty sure that A has gotten stronger in the past 12 years that the Minato has been dead.

Guys, it seems to me that you are all just arguing for the sake of argument.

Anyway, IMO they are both very close, and while A maybe the best taijutsu user from the entire series, i think Minato would still be the winner. More then all the tools he has, he has something definitely better then A: his genius fighting style intellect.

It's obvious that Minato's intelligence in battle is on level of guys like Shikamaru, maybe even better, that's why I think he would beat A, because he just doesn't have incredible weapons and tools to use in battle, he also knows how to maximaze their use in every situation, and that's what turns him in such dangerous foe IMO.

And anyway,



It seems pretty clear by the last chapter that Minato could have beat A AND Killer Bee on his own. That is something that is almost beyond Kage level (High Kage level for sure). In fact, he seems to overshadow any Kage level fighter he ever fought or shared the same space with, and we are talking about people like Madara, Sarutobi, Orochimaru, A, Killer Bee etc.

Well, I think that's a little bit of an exaggeration. A and Bee were young and don't seem to have nearly the fighting prowess they do now. Also unlike Madara, they obviously did not know how the FTG technique works. That said, it looks like at that point in time, he could have handily soloed them.

Originally posted by Darth Angel

It seems pretty clear by the last chapter that Minato could have beat A AND Killer Bee on his own.

phuck no

Minato would have defeated both with not much difficulty in the past. Look how tired Bee was after attacking.

Also a nice feat for A(and Minato obviously). A isn't even visible.

Nowadays though, even if I do think Minato could beat A, Bee is another story entirely.

Would have been cool to see the fight go on longer. I doubt that Kunai would have finished A off and if he had enough time to learn the FTG's secret, it would have made it a more even battle.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Well, I think that's a little bit of an exaggeration. A and Bee were young and don't seem to have nearly the fighting prowess they do now. Also unlike Madara, they obviously did not know how the FTG technique works. That said, it looks like at that point in time, he could have handily soloed them.

A was not "young." He was a full grown man, at that point. In his 20s or 30s.

20s maybe, but I could see high teens as well. Definitely decades younger than modern A.

Originally posted by Q99
20s maybe, but I could see high teens as well. Definitely decades younger than modern A.

No, not "decades" younger than Modern A.


Minato was in his same "getup" as he was during Kakashi Gaiden. It could be during the great war or right after (slightly before he became hokage.)

That's, at best, 17-19 years prior.


One year after the war, Minato became hokage. Somewhere between right after the war and his hokage-ship, he impregnated Kushina. A bit after he became Hokage, Naruto was born. There's 2-3 years difference between having Naruto and his death and what was saw between A and Minato this last chapter.

Originally posted by dadudemon
A was not "young." He was a full grown man, at that point. In his 20s or 30s.
I meant young, relative to what he is now. And he looks pretty young to me, likely still in his 20s.

it's at least 16 years before naruto's birth + plus how many years it took for minato to become hokage from that point since he was already the hokage when he knocked up naruto's mom.

Originally posted by King Kandy
I meant young, relative to what he is now. And he looks pretty young to me, likely still in his 20s.

lulz.

Then I agree.

http://www.mangareader.net/93-55203-3/naruto/chapter-501.html

http://www.mangareader.net/93-55203-4/naruto/chapter-501.html

This is Raikage level speed feat. And vs a very powerful Sharigan user.

Personally, I still think that both Raikage and Minato are more or less in the same super human class of speed and reflexes anyway, the 2 fastest Naruto characters until now.

As for as fighting power, I personally think that while Raikage has the strength advantage, Minato has the intellect advantage, with combined with his Hirashin makes him probably stronger then Raikage.

But is this shocking anyway? Raikage himself seems to put Minato in the highest shinobi level.

As far as we can go from here, is just reader preferance.