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they weren't slaughtered, enslaved, & robbed of their land? woot woot

Nice vid.

Really love the reactions to rice, mirrors, and the tape recorder in particular.

Originally posted by 0mega Spawn
they weren't slaughtered, enslaved, & robbed of their land? woot woot

Probably didn't have anything anybody wanted.

Diamond got so much crap from the socio-anthro community for that book

everyone accused him of "determinism", lol, its really funny to read his rebuttals. It is literally him asking, in the most professional way possible, "Did you guys even read my work?"

mind you, the socio-anthro community has produced little of real worth in decades...

I thought everything he said was very sensible and backed by good evidence. It is not deterministic but focused by choice on the impacts of natural geography. He has follow-up books that focus more on the impacts of human choices.

thats sort of what I meant. For how scholarly the work was and how much evidence he provided in support, further, how many other lines of evidence he could site to support his theory, it was lunacy to see some people essentially accuse him of saying "Africans were pre-determined to be less advanced".

It is really funny. Let me see if I can find any of it, I read these a couple of years ago...

I liked Collapse too, but not as much

best I could find:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guns,_Germs,_and_Steel#Criticism

Something that stood out to me is how much nicer these guys are than Christopher Columbus. They made sure the natives used the knives correctly, while when chris met the americans, he held out a sword to let them grab the blade.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Something that stood out to me is how much nicer these guys are than Christopher Columbus. They made sure the natives used the knives correctly, while when chris met the americans, he held out a sword to let them grab the blade.
He had to let them know he had a shiny second cock that could hurt them.

How else would they know he was better than them? haw-som

It reminds me of the movie 'Mountains of the Moon' where when the main characters give an African king a gun he hands it to one of his sons (a toddler) and after the main characters fail to impress upon him the danger of the weapon they just hold their breath and pray the kid doesn't pull the trigger.

I'm not exactly sure why, but that video was REALLY interesting. It was very fascinating to see their reactions.

They also seemed liked pleasant people (culture).

Originally posted by Bicnarok
I wonder if heart disease and diabetes has crept in amongst them since meeting a "technological advanced race.

It's fairly difficult to make a point with such a comparison that those diseases are bad when the average life expactancy is less than 30 for them and approaching 80, for most Modern western nations.


It reminds me of a comic I read with a couple of cavemen sitting down by a fire(I believe I posted it here) that said something like:

"What's the deal? We eat only free range animal meat that is fed only all-natural food, we get tons of exercise, all of our fruits and vegitables are 100% organic...and most of us still die before 30."

Originally posted by dadudemon
I'm not exactly sure why, but that video was REALLY interesting. It was very fascinating to see their reactions.

They also seemed liked pleasant people (culture).



It's fairly difficult to make a point with such a comparison that those diseases are bad when the average life expactancy is less than 30 for them and approaching 80, for most Modern western nations.


It reminds me of a comic I read with a couple of cavemen sitting down by a fire(I believe I posted it here) that said something like:

"What's the deal? We eat only free range animal meat that is fed only all-natural food, we get tons of exercise, all of our fruits and vegitables are 100% organic...and most of us still die before 30."

Average =/= Median

*twitch*

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Average =/= Median

*twitch*

I consider the median age to be gigantically irrelevant to my point especially since it doesn't make my point any less valid.

However, if you compare median age, iirc, the difference becomes even more contrasted.

*spasm*



But if you "want to go there" the difference in median age is more than double:

http://www.indexmundi.com/papua_new_guinea/median_age.html

http://www.indexmundi.com/papua_new_guinea/life_expectancy_at_birth.html

Originally posted by dadudemon
http://www.indexmundi.com/papua_new_guinea/median_age.html

*blink*

Oh, that's median age not median age of death. Confused me there for a second.

Originally posted by dadudemon
http://www.indexmundi.com/papua_new_guinea/median_age.html

Actually, this is more what I was thinking of. Life expectancy at birth is in the mid sixties not the thirties which means an adult can probably expect to live to seventy (see infant mortality rate of five times the US: http://www.indexmundi.com/papua_new_guinea/infant_mortality_rate.html)

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Actually, this is more what I was thinking of. Life expectancy at birth is in the mid sixties not the thirties which means an adult can probably expect to live to seventy (see infant mortality rate of five times the US: http://www.indexmundi.com/papua_new_guinea/infant_mortality_rate.html)


Thanks to modern medicine and science, of course.

Before we injected ourselves into their mostly peaceful society, it was much closer to 30 than 60 (slightly less than 40):

http://www.google.com/publicdata?ds=wb-wdi&met_y=sp_dyn_le00_in&idim=country:PNG&dl=en&hl=en&q=life+expectancy+of+papua+new+guinea

Again, I prefer average life expectancy, not median.



Also, that's a really cool tool. hmm



Also, you're using the punchline of a comic for your comparison. Thought I would throw that out there.

Interesting.

That was pretty cool. I love how they kept trying to get them to shake their hands at the beginning even though they had no idea what they wanted them to do.

I thought the tribesmen looked like they were seeing local 'forest spirits'. The way they kept touching and feeling the white man (after getting over the initial fear of mere contact): like they couldn't believe these were flesh-and-blood beings, just like them.

my interpretation on that was that either (1) that's how they say hello (their form of a handshake, you grab the guy's arm and I guess feel the muscle) or (2) they're seeing if the whiteness will come off it they rub it.

Best video Id seen this year.
Was on a real downer today...Actually shifted my mood quite a bit this evening. Was pure 'wow'. The things we can all achieve together with a bit of care and respect for each other... amazing stuff.
Thanks for posting it Bicnarok!

This was really cool. It's something that's rare to see. I like how they showed off their tech too. a.k.a. the little drums that they played. It also serves as an example for how quickly man can adapt to something that is completely new to them.

Wow, the leader's (?) expression when he sees the person taping them is really intense.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Wow, the leader's (?) expression when he sees the person taping them is really intense.

hmm

I believe they live in huts, not tents.

Originally posted by dadudemon
hmm

I believe they live in huts, not tents.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f61/t549947.html

There's a great bit starting at 4:10 where the leader gets this "what the hell are you doing, man?" expression when one of his guys accepts a gift.

You know I got to the bit with the hair and it makes me wonder how they get their own so nicely shaved.

Originally posted by dadudemon
hmm

I believe they live in huts, not tents.
Originally posted by Mindship
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f61/t549947.html

Wow, that was a bad pun. I didn't even get it until Mindship pointed it out.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
There's a great bit starting at 4:10 where the leader gets this "what the hell are you doing, man?" expression when one of his guys accepts a gift.

You know I got to the bit with the hair and it makes me wonder how they get their own so nicely shaved.

There's a video of a dude shaving his face with an obsidian rock that he "breaks" off from a larger rock, right before shaving with it. It was very effective, as well.


Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Wow, that was a bad pun. I didn't even get it until Mindship pointed it out.

My checking account number is 18436572.

Apparently this video is "fake"/rehearsed/acted etc

Originally posted by HigH ScholaR
Apparently this video is "fake"/rehearsed/acted etc

In looking around I gather that it's at least "misleading".

It's from the documentary series Tribal Journeys by Jean Pierre Dutilleux (the man in the video). He himself says the first modern contact was made in 1993, not 1976, after the Toulambi retreated further into the jungle to escape missionaries some time before. So he not only knew it wasn't first contact, he made no secret of it (or doesn't anymore).

http://www.jpdutilleux.com/collections/toulambi.html

This would explain some of their reaction. Stories of being chased off by white people could easily have been passed down and resulted in hesitance to get involved with them.

Another article about them:
http://terrain.revues.org/2820#ftn17 (the abstract is translated into English)

Another site drew my attention to a line from that paper which google translate says means: The records also indicate that Australian colonial territory of Toulambis was visited by at least six "patrols" between 1929 and 1972:

I think it's conceivable that these particular Toulambi hadn't actually met white people previously in their lives or had met only a very few. Their reactions seem genuine to me, but that doesn't mean much since they would just genuinely be interested in this new white guy or had figured out how to get a good reaction from white people.