Sebastian Shaw vs Wonder Woman (Unequiped) in Cage Match

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Starscream M
Fight inside a large adamantium cage.

Who wins?

Q99
Just as Power Girl and Thor would beat him, so would Diana.

Especially because she's a skilled martial artist who's also observant enough to notice what's up with his powers relatively soon.

Cogito
Originally posted by Q99
Just as Power Girl and Thor would beat him, so would Diana.

Especially because she's a skilled martial artist who's also observant enough to notice what's up with his powers relatively soon.

Laminator_X
Diana switches to grapples once she figures out what's going on (or Shaw gloats about it). WW 4/5 or better.

Galan007
Like I said in the PG thread: One-shotting Rogue /w/ Ms. Marvel's powers is a very impressive feat on Shaw's end, and proves that he certainly has the potential to give Dianna a good fight. However, he's usually not written on that uber of a level (and for good reason)- thus Dianna would definitely take the majority.

Lord Feron
Originally posted by Q99
Just as Power Girl and Thor would beat him, so would Diana.

Especially because she's a skilled martial artist who's also observant enough to notice what's up with his powers relatively soon.

Once she finds out he should be at a significant threat level, but what gonna happen after that? How will WW take out Shaw?

Q99
Like Laminator X said, grappling.


--
Even in a slug fest, she'd win in an end.

Galan007
Originally posted by Q99
Like Laminator X said, grappling. Wrestling? Sure that's a good way to get around Shaw's energy absorption, but I don't see how she'd win that way..?

JakeTheBank
Would Shaw's powers would prevent pressure points and suffocation?

Galan007
Pressure points require an input of kinetic energy, no? Suffocation might be possible though- depending on how she does it.

celeyhyga17
I guess Diana...

zopzop
Originally posted by Q99
Like Laminator X said, grappling.


--
Even in a slug fest, she'd win in an end.

I don't think grappling would work. Since she's gonna have to exert energy (kinetic energy) to hold him down/restrain him.

And I still haven't seen a scan of him being overloaded by purely physical attacks. So it's unfair to claim she'd win in a slugfest.

Starscream M
Originally posted by Galan007
Pressure points require an input of kinetic energy, no? Suffocation might be possible though- depending on how she does it. so does suffocation then...

Galan007
Yeah, unless a pillow is standard equipment for Dianna, I'm not sure how she could suffocate Shaw without utilizing kinetic energy in some fashion..?

JakeTheBank
Dirty pillows are standard equipment for Diana.

biscuits

Starscream M
Originally posted by Galan007
Yeah, unless a pillow is standard equipment for Dianna, I'm not sure how she could suffocate Shaw without utilizing kinetic energy in some fashion..? I don't see how a pillow would change anything? presumably she'd still have to use tremendous force to keep it on his face, and that energy would transfer to him, making him stronger.

Galan007
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Dirty pillows are standard equipment for Diana.

biscuits gmarx

Originally posted by Starscream M
I don't see how a pillow would change anything? presumably she'd still have to use tremendous force to keep it on his face, and that energy would transfer to him, making him stronger. Passive attacks have beaten Shaw in the past (that's how Nimrod did it)- but in a scenario like this where Shaw cannot be passively BFR'd, then Dianna will have to get crafty if she's going to beat him.

Lord Feron
Originally posted by Q99
Like Laminator X said, grappling.


--
Even in a slug fest, she'd win in an end.

The force used to subdue him will only empower him me thinks.

Laminator_X
Originally posted by zopzop
I don't think grappling would work. Since she's gonna have to exert energy (kinetic energy) to hold him down/restrain him.


Shaw doesn't absorb all the kinetic energy applied to his body. If he did he couldn't ride in a car. Heck, since he can hit things to power himself up, he couldn't chew or exhale properly if he absorbed even minute pressures.

Since he can do these things, there seems to be a minimum threshold of impulse (change in momentum) required to trigger his power. We cant know what it is exactly, except to say that it's greater than a footfall and less than a punch.

Since his limo accelerating to highway speeds doesn't trigger his power (as evinced by the limo successfully pushing Shaw to those speeds as well), slow steady application of force against him is clearly possible. (Have we ever seen Shaw in a plane?)

Thus, something like a sleeper hold, bear hug, or choke should work.

Galan007
Originally posted by Laminator_X
Shaw doesn't absorb all the kinetic energy applied to his body. If he did he couldn't ride in a car. Heck, since he can hit things to power himself up, he couldn't chew or exhale properly if he absorbed even minute pressures.

Since he can do these things, there seems to be a minimum threshold of impulse (change in momentum) required to trigger his power. We cant know what it is exactly, except to say that it's greater than a footfall and less than a punch.

Since his limo accelerating to highway speeds doesn't trigger his power (as evinced by the limo successfully pushing Shaw to those speeds as well), slow steady application of force against him is clearly possible. (Have we ever seen Shaw in a plane?)

Thus, something like a sleeper hold, bear hug, or choke should work. Subduing a character of Shaw's strength in a "sleeper hold, bear hug, or choke" would require a much greater input of kinetic energy than chewing, exhaling, or riding in a car.

...So I don't think your analogies really work. :/

Laminator_X
Originally posted by Galan007
Subduing a character of Shaw's strength in a "sleeper hold, bear hug, or choke" would require a much greater input of kinetic energy than chewing, exhaling, or riding in a car.

...So I don't think your analogies really work. :/

Doesn't matter how much energy is applied, as long as the impulse is below his trigger threshold.

Shaw's limo getting up to highway speeds exerts a great deal of energy on Shaw, far more than a punch, but gradually (low impulse). His power doesn't do anything.

If Shaw were standing on the highway and got hit by the limo, it would impart the same energy going 60 to 0 as it did speeding up, but the impulse would be great enough to trigger Shaw's power. Shaw stands there looking badassed and gets a big charge.

dmills
I thought Shaw absorbs energy from IMPACT/motion forces? He should still be able to be choked or even crushed to death under the right circumstances.

zopzop
Originally posted by dmills
I thought Shaw absorbs energy from IMPACT/motion forces? He should still be able to be choked or even crushed to death under the right circumstances.

Except Selene tried that, and failed. It's in his respect thread.

wildernesss
WW has no idea who shaw is or what his powers are; therefore, the outcome is a toss up because the amount of time it would take for diana to figure him out is a wildcard. it's more than likely that she would mistake him for a naturally strong 75+ class brick with some type of thin force field or shielding. even if she switches to grappling, shaw would have absorbed enough kinetic energy to counter grapple against her.


i'd say this is 5/5 evenly matched.

Galan007
Originally posted by Laminator_X
Doesn't matter how much energy is applied, as long as the impulse is below his trigger threshold.

Shaw's limo getting up to highway speeds exerts a great deal of energy on Shaw, far more than a punch, but gradually (low impulse). His power doesn't do anything.

If Shaw were standing on the highway and got hit by the limo, it would impart the same energy going 60 to 0 as it did speeding up, but the impulse would be great enough to trigger Shaw's power. Shaw stands there looking badassed and gets a big charge. It would require greater force than a limo slowly accelerating to 60mph to subdue Shaw, me thinks.

Either way, I do agree that it's possible for Dianna to win in that type of manner, but only if she does so immediately after the battle begins, and before any physcial attacks were dealt on her end. But personally I have my doubts that she'd try grappling before she'd try direct combat. Just MO.

Q99
Originally posted by wildernesss
WW has no idea who shaw is or what his powers are; therefore, the outcome is a toss up because the amount of time it would take for diana to figure him out is a wildcard. it's more than likely that she would mistake him for a naturally strong 75+ class brick with some type of thin force field or shielding. even if she switches to grappling, shaw would have absorbed enough kinetic energy to counter grapple against her.

She'd notice he's getting stronger, she's perceptive.

And even with KE absorbed, she'd both be stronger still, and a much better grappler.





Shaw's never gotten strong enough to take on a herald level meleer.

Galan007
Originally posted by Q99
She'd notice he's getting stronger, she's perceptive. She better notice quick. Remember, the energy Shaw redirects is several times more powerful than it originally was. So Dianna may only hit him once, but when he hits her back his punch will feel like 10 of hers.

Originally posted by Q99
Shaw's never gotten strong enough to take on a herald level meleer. Where would you put Rogue /w/ Ms. Marvel's power?

Silent Master
Wasn't she cl 50 or so when Rogue absorbed her powers?

Galan007
Dunno. It was a serious question.

Q99
Originally posted by Galan007
Where would you put Rogue /w/ Ms. Marvel's power?

Much lower, something like the class 65-75 range (for some reason she was stronger than the Ms. Marvel of the time). She's less strong than Colossus, who's significantly weaker than Wonder Woman.

Laminator_X
Originally posted by Q99
Much lower, something like the class 65-75 range (for some reason she was stronger than the Ms. Marvel of the time). She's less strong than Colossus, who's significantly weaker than Wonder Woman.

She was stronger than Carol because she'd been working out on panel with some giant weights for some time.

Konton
Yeah I don't think no-selling Rogue is that big of a deal, granted she (and Carol for that matter) had durability that was always more impressive than her strength.

Laminator_X
Originally posted by zopzop
Except Selene tried that, and failed. It's in his respect thread.
http://i553.photobucket.com/albums/jj364/galanphotobook/strength_blackwitch2.jpg

It failed because Shaw was strong enough to shatter the stone she was using, not because he wasn't getting squeezed. Pay attention to Shaw's dialogue.

wildernesss
after seeing that feat i'm giving shaw a majority 6/10. if he could shatter that stone then he could break WW's grip, shake her off him, or break a choke hold at LEAST once; WW would almost certainly change tactics and proceed to use her strongest blunt force punches....& lose.

Cogito
Originally posted by wildernesss
after seeing that feat i'm giving shaw a majority 6/10. if he could shatter that stone then he could break WW's grip, shake her off him, or break a choke hold at LEAST once; WW would almost certainly change tactics and proceed to use her strongest blunt force punches....& lose.

You think a little stone is stronger than WW?

wildernesss
Originally posted by Cogito
You think a little stone is stronger than WW?


lol, a little stone? that thing was huge & he was being squeezed; yet, he still managed to shatter it. WW is stronger than a garden variety shaw. no doubt....it just wouldn't make enough difference imho.

Galan007
Funny how Sebastian has improved over the years. Nowadays the force he exerted to shatter that stone would strengthen him.

At any rate, I'm still hard-pressed to believe that Dianna would immediately start wrestling with Shaw, before delivering any physical strikes.

Mindset
Originally posted by Galan007
Funny how Sebastian has improved over the years. Nowadays the force he exerted to shatter that stone would strengthen him.

At any rate, I'm still hard-pressed to believe that Dianna would immediately start wrestling with Shaw, before delivering any physical strikes. thumb up

It's hard to believe because it wouldn't happen.

Galan007
Originally posted by Mindset
thumb up

It's hard to believe because it wouldn't happen. Yeah, moving in and immediately grappling with an opponent isn't something Dianna does regularly enough in serious battles for it to be considered an 'in character' tactic, imo.

Me thinks she'd engage Shaw like every other character does (even when they know what his powerset is)- ie. direct h2h combat. And don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Shaw could take an indefinite amount of strikes from her, but he could definitely take a handful- and after he redirects that energy back at Dianna, she's going to be hurting.

Cogito
Originally posted by wildernesss
lol, a little stone? that thing was huge & he was being squeezed; yet, he still managed to shatter it.

Yep, little stone. It's what, 10'x10'ish? Diana is nearly Superman level strength. She'd break that stone with a casual poke.

I believe WW takes this only because I believe that Shaw has limits, although that has yet to be determined. If he didn't, then obviously Diana has a slim chance.

wildernesss
Originally posted by Cogito
Yep, little stone. It's what, 10'x10'ish? Diana is nearly Superman level strength. She'd break that stone with a casual poke.

I believe WW takes this only because I believe that Shaw has limits, although that has yet to be determined. If he didn't, then obviously Diana has a slim chance.


a casual poke from WW wouldn't bust that thing; she have to expend low to moderate force to break it; you're using hyperbole in a somewhat inaccurate way. however, i agree with you that WW is way stronger than a baseline shaw.

dmills
Originally posted by Galan007
Funny how Sebastian has improved over the years. Nowadays the force he exerted to shatter that stone would strengthen him.

At any rate, I'm still hard-pressed to believe that Dianna would immediately start wrestling with Shaw, before delivering any physical strikes.

Word.

Cogito
Originally posted by wildernesss
a casual poke from WW wouldn't bust that thing; she have to expend low to moderate force to break it; you're using hyperbole in a somewhat inaccurate way. however, i agree with you that WW is way stronger than a baseline shaw.

Superman can bust planets. WW is right there with him in strength. She has also helped to move planets.

I'm not hyperbolizing. A non-jobbing Diana can and would bust through that rock by looking at it the wrong way.

wildernesss
Originally posted by Cogito
Superman can bust planets. WW is right there with him in strength. She has also helped to move planets.

I'm not hyperbolizing. A non-jobbing Diana can and would bust through that rock by looking at it the wrong way.


so, WW looking at it the wrong way would shatter that stone. and you're not using hyperbole; hmmm, I guess she has new powers. my mistake.

Cogito
^ That one was hyperbole. Keep up now

Brockalizer
Is it standard cage match rules i.e. first pin fall or first to place two feet on the floor outside? After WW realizes that Shaw is just getting stronger the longer the fight goes on, she turns tail and quickly flies out of the cage for the win.

wildernesss
Originally posted by Cogito
^ That one was hyperbole. Keep up now


lolz, whatever. I agree to disagree; WW is way stronger than baseline shaw, but she would not have busted that stone grip with a casual poke imho.

retardslayerxt
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Cogito
Originally posted by retardslayerxt
Shaw has been overloaded before, Diana will kill him

Do you have scans, or at least know when?

Mindset
Originally posted by Brockalizer
Is it standard cage match rules i.e. first pin fall or first to place two feet on the floor outside? After WW realizes that Shaw is just getting stronger the longer the fight goes on, she turns tail and quickly flies out of the cage for the win. Pretty sure the only rule is they fight in a cage until one is incapacitated.

retardslayerxt
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Cogito
Originally posted by retardslayerxt
storm has overloaded him with lightning, ill look for scan or #

Oh, thought you meant physically.

retardslayerxt
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MetalIsDead
WW

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