H/P Doomsday Rampages on DC Earth

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JakeTheBank
Inspired by Brucie's thread.

H/P Doomsday is angry and stuff and travels through time and space and lands on DC Earth, prior to the Flashpoint event. He's pretty pissed, yeah.

NO BFR.

DC Squad (everyone is operating at peak performance)

Hal Jordan, Superman, Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter, Captain Marvel (Billy Batson), Captain Atom, Lex Luthor w/ battle suit, Felix Faust, Darkseid (non FC/ALE), Solomon Grundy

vs

H/P Doomsday

Starscream M
HP DD.

JakeTheBank
How?

Starscream M
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
How? putting his bonespurred fists through their heads, one by one.

Galan007
Billy and CA would be the biggest issues. Aside from them, DD's already owned most of those fellas simultaneously.

guy222
thumb up

Starscream M
Originally posted by Galan007
Billy and CA would be the biggest issues. Aside from them, DD's already owned most of those fellas simultaneously. I don't think they would be issues at all...I think you're coming from the magical angle? I just don't think their brand of magic is powerful enough to beat dd

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by Galan007
Billy and CA would be the biggest issues. Aside from them, DD's already owned most of those fellas simultaneously.

Most of them have also been upgraded and have been given better feats since that time period, though. Do you agree?

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by Starscream M
I don't think they would be issues at all...I think you're coming from the magical angle? I just don't think their brand of magic is powerful enough to beat dd

CA doesn't have magic.

Starscream M
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
CA doesn't have magic. ah...I mistook it for CM. CA isn't a threat at all.

Galan007
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Most of them have also been upgraded and have been given better feats since that time period, though. Do you agree? While that may be true for the most part, every time Doomsday pops up he is always portrayed as a major threat. For instance, even the Luthor-cloned version of DD from AC smacked around multiple solar-powered Kryptonians (inc. Superman and Kara), and tanked their collective HV. It was only when a dozen (or so) of them ganged up on him that DD was beaten.

...And H/P is considered far and away superior to these 'no name' incarnations. Point being: I think H/P would do just as well now as he did back then. His effortless trouncing of Darkseid is a bigger feat then most realize, imo. /shrug

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by Galan007
While that may be true for the most part, every time Doomsday pops up he is always portrayed as a major threat. For instance, even the Luthor-cloned version of DD from AC smacked around multiple solar-powered Kryptonians (inc. Superman and Kara), and tanked their collective HV. It was only when a dozen (or so) of them ganged up on him that DD was beaten.

...And H/P is considered far and away superior to these 'no name' incarnations. Point being: I think H/P would do just as well now as he did back then. His effortless trouncing of Darkseid is a bigger feat then most realize, imo. /shrug

Fair enough.

I feel that the gap displayed between H/P DD and Superman alone has been closed quite a bit due to Kal's better feats. And people like Hal, Captain Marvel, Diana, etc, have likewise gotten either more powerful through explicit upgrades, or just have been portrayed with better feats since the 90s. I think, truthfully, Doomsday would be a threat to the team, but to the degree where he could take them all on at once and possibly win? I just don't see it, personally. I agree in team busting on panel to a degree, but then when someone (ie. Superman) is able to contend for an extended period of time against said team buster on his own, it somewhat ruins the validity of it.

Starscream M
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
but then when someone (ie. Superman) is able to contend for an extended period of time against said team buster on his own, it somewhat ruins the validity of it. but that's simply a false premise, as superman cannot contend with hp dd at all

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by Starscream M
but that's simply a false premise, as superman cannot contend with hp dd at all

Superman's feats tend to disagree with you. Perhaps it's a bad example as it is Superman (who tends to go above and beyond when plot calls for it), but Superman has a storied history of being on a team and getting roughed up by someone and then standing up to that same threat by himself later on.

Starscream M
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Superman's feats tend to disagree with you. Perhaps it's a bad example as it is Superman (who tends to go above and beyond when plot calls for it), but Superman has a storied history of being on a team and getting roughed up by someone and then standing up to that same threat by himself later on. right...hence all the more impressive that HP DD was the one foe that truly scared him to the core, the one foe he did not think any powerup would help him beat, the one foe he had to send to the end of time to win

Galan007
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I agree in team busting on panel to a degree, but then when someone (ie. Superman) is able to contend for an extended period of time against said team buster on his own, it somewhat ruins the validity of it. Meh, Superman has an extensive history of dealing with beings that should be WELL beyond his 'tier'. It's what he does.

I've said it several times before: when the need arises, Superman > ALL (Final Crisis solidified that much.)

Starscream M
Originally posted by Galan007


I've said it several times before: when the need arises, Superman > ALL except for HP DD, which says something

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by Starscream M
right...hence all the more impressive that HP DD was the one foe that truly scared him to the core, the one foe he did not think any powerup would help him beat, the one foe he had to send to the end of time to win

And Superman later turned around and got over his fear of Doomsday and his "death" at his hands.

Doomsday was designed, introduced, and intended to be the ultimate enemy for Superman, and not just physically, but emotionally and psychologically. Physically, he's still a beast, but those emotional and psychological advantages he had over Superman don't hold up to the Superman of today (or yesterday as it were). He considers DD a threat, obviously, but he's not frightened of him or scarred by him.

All my opinion, of course.

Starscream M
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
And Superman later turned around and got over his fear of Doomsday and his "death" at his hands.
true, but that was not hp dd.

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by Galan007
Meh, Superman has an extensive history of dealing with beings that should be WELL beyond his 'tier'. It's what he does.

I've said it several times before: when the need arises, Superman > ALL (Final Crisis solidified that much.)

Which is partly what I'm saying.

Barring plot device amps and hyperbole and focusing on actual feats, Superman does tends to shine better on his own than if he's with the JLA or a bunch of Kryptonians, etc. He's not exclusive to this, but it's something cataloged in comics. Call it inverse ninja rule or whatever, but that tends to happen a lot.

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by Starscream M
true, but that was not hp dd.

It took place after Hunter Prey and while his power varies from time to time, it was intended to be the same creature who killed Superman and was his ultimate enemy.

Doomsday's psychological edge over Kal doesn't exist anymore.

Starscream M
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
It took place after Hunter Prey and while his power varies from time to time, it was intended to be the same creature who killed Superman and was his ultimate enemy.

Doomsday's psychological edge over Kal doesn't exist anymore. psychological edge wasn't the reason HP whupped supe's ass

unless you claim HP DD also had a psychological edge that allowed him to pummel the living snot out of Darkseid

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by Starscream M
psychological edge wasn't the reason HP whupped supe's ass

unless you claim HP DD also had a psychological edge that allowed him to pummel the living snot out of Darkseid

The psychology behind Superman and Doomsday played a big role in Hunter Prey. Look at the name of the story, for instance. It completely implies exactly my point about how Superman regarded DD.

Not at all. I completely agreed that DD was a physical beast. But that same level of physicality just isn't as impressive when compared to the Superman of today, pre-reboot.

Galan007
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Which is partly what I'm saying.

Barring plot device amps and hyperbole and focusing on actual feats, Superman does tends to shine better on his own than if he's with the JLA or a bunch of Kryptonians, etc. He's not exclusive to this, but it's something cataloged in comics. Call it inverse ninja rule or whatever, but that tends to happen a lot. Pertaining to the 'Holy Trinity' (ie. Superman, WW, Batman)...

-Morgaine-
"The moment our three targets appear, the others immediately defer to them."

-Enigma-
"No surprise there. It's in their essential nature to dominate any setting."

-Morgaine-
"The other two defer to Superman. They have left the alien creature to him while they tend to their fellows..."

-Enigma-
"In a situation like this? Please. Of course they're going to let him take point. Experience tells them it's the most sensible thing to do."

http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/2543/trinity03010.th.jpg http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/1619/trinity03011.th.jpg

...It's in Superman's essential nature. Gotta love it.

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by Galan007
Pertaining to the 'Holy Trinity' (ie. Superman, WW, Batman)...

-Morgaine-
"The moment our three targets appear, the others immediately defer to them."

-Enigma-
"No surprise there. It's in their essential nature to dominate any setting."

-Morgaine-
"The other two defer to Superman. They have left the alien creature to him while they tend to their fellows..."

-Enigma-
"In a situation like this? Please. Of course they're going to let him take point. Experience tells them it's the most sensible thing to do."

http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/2543/trinity03010.th.jpg http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/1619/trinity03011.th.jpg

...It's in Superman's essential nature. Gotta love it.

Word, which I again agree with. All I'm saying is that he has actual feats in combat and fighting powerful foes to justify him taking on team busters in addition to flowery prose and hyperbole, which he has lots of. To that end, I don't think we disagree at all, really.

killer_creed
I think it's worth noting that the Doomsday vs Darkseid encounter in Hunter/Prey was retconned to show that it wasn't actually Darkseid. In fact, if memory serves me correctly, it wasn't even an avatar of Darkseid. It was Desaad impersonating him.

Galan007
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Word, which I again agree with. All I'm saying is that he has actual feats in combat and fighting powerful foes to justify him taking on team busters in addition to flowery prose and hyperbole, which he has lots of. To that end, I don't think we disagree at all, really. Agreed. That's why Superman's ability to beat an opponent should never be used as a baseline, imo.

For instance, just because Superman beat Dominus doesn't mean I think of Dom as any less of a high-level cosmic being. Etc.

Originally posted by killer_creed
I think it's worth noting that the Doomsday vs Darkseid encounter in Hunter/Prey was retconned to show that it wasn't actually Darkseid. In fact, if memory serves me correctly, it wasn't even an avatar of Darkseid. It was Desaad impersonating him. No. Desaad was in H/P alongside Darkseid. none

killer_creed
Well, I could be mistaken on the specifics, but I know it was retconned so that Doomsday didn't actually fight Darkseid.

Galan007
^ Nothing was retconned from H/P.

leonidas
Originally posted by Galan007
Agreed. That's why Superman's ability to beat an opponent should never be used as a baseline, imo.

absolutely. it ties in to another discussion re: the iconic nature of a character. the stature of said character (in this case superman, in the other case batman) is an integral part OF the character, and i think it needs to be viewed as such. (and no, that does NOT mean we ignore on-panel proof, but these ARE characters, and to get a complete view the character needs to be viewed in ALL contexts, imo.)

Rage.Of.Olympus
The DC Formula: Superman =/> Batman > Everything else.

Galan007
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
The DC Formula: Superman =/> Batman > Everything else. -Mxy-
"Superman and Batman are the linchpin to everything. No matter what time or Universe, some version of you two exists! And when that balance is upset or uprooted... You can call it a cataclysm, or an apocalypse, or a crisis--it upsets my life in the 5th dimension... And that ticks me off":

http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/5032/supeslinchpin1.th.jpg

...The death of one, or both, of the aforementioned unhinges the very fabric of creation. Makes me laugh.

leonidas
Originally posted by Galan007
-Mxy-
"Superman and Batman are the linchpin to everything. No matter what time or Universe, some version of you two exists! And when that balance is upset or uprooted... You can call it a cataclysm, or an apocalypse, or a crisis--it upsets my life in the 5th dimension... And that ticks me off":

http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/5032/supeslinchpin1.th.jpg

...The death of one, or both, of the aforementioned unhinges the very fabric of creation. Makes me laugh.

laughing

choke on that logan fans! heh

thumb up

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by Galan007
-Mxy-
"Superman and Batman are the linchpin to everything. No matter what time or Universe, some version of you two exists! And when that balance is upset or uprooted... You can call it a cataclysm, or an apocalypse, or a crisis--it upsets my life in the 5th dimension... And that ticks me off":

http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/5032/supeslinchpin1.th.jpg

...The death of one, or both, of the aforementioned unhinges the very fabric of creation. Makes me laugh.

That feat shits on pretty much everyone else.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Galan007
-Mxy-
"Superman and Batman are the linchpin to everything. No matter what time or Universe, some version of you two exists! And when that balance is upset or uprooted... You can call it a cataclysm, or an apocalypse, or a crisis--it upsets my life in the 5th dimension... And that ticks me off":

http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/5032/supeslinchpin1.th.jpg

...The death of one, or both, of the aforementioned unhinges the very fabric of creation. Makes me laugh.

Thor's still more awesome.

arrrgh

Galan007
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Thor's still more awesome.

arrrgh Pfft.

Thor---->thorboned<----Superman





/discussion

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