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Now as I logged in on my hotmail, I found a message from a friend of mine from my LieroX days. We've exchanged a few rows back and forth regarding our life situations before. But this made me feel really bad. So bad in fact that I translated it word by word from Swedish to English just to share with you guys.
__________

Hi. I don't know exactly how to being. I sit here with tears running down my cheeks, something I've done for a couple of days now. Everything feels hopeless, lost, meaningless, disgusting. I don't know even know what I should feel, think or do.

I've been together with my girlfriend for just over 2 years, we own a 2 bedroom apartment and we have two cats together. We've considered engagement since we fit so well together though it never happen, luckily so.

She is 25 years old, and I 27. She's my third real partner and honestly the best girl I've ever been with, or well, to what I'll tell you about happen.

Caring, nice, loves children, happy, frisky, forward, social, positive, I even thought she had good morals.

She was in other words the dream girl. Until ...

About two months ago we were at a pub together, something that doesn't happen too often. My buddy had gone home, and it was just she and I left, everything was well, we hadn't had a fight in months. To spare you boring details I'll get right to the point:

Just before we're about to go home I accidently bump into a guy with my shoulder, he gets furious, and he must have been on drugs or something, while I'm wondering why he's so upset and trying to calm him down, it ends with that the guy pushes me, I push back to mark my position to which he responds by decking me. He also manages to get in 1-2 kicks on me as I'm down before the bouncers comes and take him away, he was incredibly aggressive and totally uncontrollable so even the bouncers had a bit of a problem with him despite being three on one. I hear him yelling but luckily he's not left outside once we go home.

So far it's not too bad, I mean, I didn't receive any serious injuries, most of us have gotten beaten up during our pub years, nothing too concerning.

Now comes the worst part:

The following week my girlfriend was out with some of her friends, apparently they had been at the same place we were that night. The day after I noticed that she had added a new guy on facebook, to my surprise it was the guy I had a fight with.

I can't be completely sure since I was under the influence of alcohol, but it really looked like him, so I asked her if it was true. Apparently it was true, it was this guy who had struck me down the week before, and kicked me while I was down, as my girlfriend watched it happen, in other words I think that she shouldn't like him!

The answer I got was that she only had exchanged a few words with him at the pub, nothing more, she thought that he was a dork unable to admit that he's wrong, it was also he who had added her and not the other way around, and I cite: "I don't care about facebook, I don't give a shit about who adds me."

OK. I thought it seemed very odd but I didn't really want to overanalyze things.

What followed was however very odd. Suddenly she started clearing her SMS inbox on a daily basis on her cellphone, her call-list, everything. I asked her why she did this to which she gave me the answer: Meh, I just think it's unnecessary to keep all the old stuff.

I and my girl had always been open with this, I could have lend her my phone whenever she wanted, and she hers, and we could both read each other's SMS if we felt like it, we had nothing to hide was both of ours argument, so it doesn't matter.

I thought this was very odd.

She also started spending a lot of time in front of the computer, sometimes she sat a number of ours in a row with headphones on, completely separated from the rest of the world. And each time I checked out what she was doing she sat with a newspaper site up. Now I really started to feel that she was hiding something.

We had less sex and she had now stopped initiate it completely, she who always was so horny, one night it was even impossible to get her wet, she was completely dry down there despite the long foreplay.

The SMS deletion continued, and now she also started spending a lot of time at a friend's house, according to her that is. She could come home late at nights with the excuses that she and her friend had watched a very good movie, been drinking wine, and watch cute kittens on the Internet, among others.

I hate being controlling and jealous, but a friend told me to install a key-logger on our computer to find out what's going on.

Said and done!

A few days later I started check her logs when she wasn't home. It was here that it felt like my heart stopped, my stomach harden, and for a few seconds it felt impossible to breathe, my body went completely cold.

She had apparently only a week after I've been decked by this guy, started to talk with him frequently over facebook. Directly had he started flirting with her, in the beginning she seemed cold, but as the days passed I started noticing that she was flirting back, and it was apparent that they were seeing each other based on the text which said: "Tonight baby <3", "You were wonderful last night" and "You're so evil, poor guy your boyfriend is not knowing anything", etc.

My entire world had collapsed, how the **** could the ***** do this to me?! SHE of ANYONE?! She is REALLY not the cheating type, cute, cares about everybody, and is the nicest girl you'd know. Not a bitchy ****. But she is ****ing with someone else, and not only that, but it is also the guy that hit me just because I walked into him!

I confronted her which resulted in that she cried and told me that she didn't know what it was but that our passion felt to be gone and that we felt more like friends than partners, she need time to reconsider things, she was completely uncontrollable. She have started backing a few things, and went off to her parents to think about things for a few days.

We'll obviously break up now, this isn't acceptable, I'll just have to sell the apartment, she can keep the cats, I don't care for them anyway. I don't care about most things anymore, what I can't understand is how she could do this, it feels unreal, something that shouldn't happen.

What's really annoying is that she has to sleep with the guy that at least I thought was a complete nutcase. WHY is she now has to be unfaithful does it have to be with the biggest idiot I've come across in a while.

I don't know what I want to say, I just want to lighten the load a bit. It feels rather empty now, this was the girl I planned to marry in a few years if it had continued as well as it went in the past. I never thought I'd be out on the dating market again, my life has gotten a 180 turn.

Well, it was nice to vent a bit. Thanks for taking yourself the time to read through the message.
__________

I mean what the hell do I tell this guy? If my girlfriend did to me I would've snapped. Please, help me, what should I say to him?

Closure rarely exists in the real world, and can't easily be found by confronting someone. Remove yourself from the whole thing as much as possible and let time do its thing.

Also, take any advice you get on the internet - or from others in general - with a grain of salt. Only you know you.

...

That's what I would say.

thats the sad fact about relationships, after being together for so long it gets somewhat boring/uninteresting/dull.

TBH i think 70% of everyone in long term relationships have cheated at least once.

Your friend was a fool to get this close to someone.

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
TBH i think 70% of everyone in long term relationships have cheated at least once.

This sounds made up or at least only partially remembered. I do know there are actual statistics on this, though.

Also, Astner, how is this the saddest thing you've ever read? This is like a "4" on a 10-point tragedy scale.

wow, an aggressive, intrusive, possessive douche bag loses a **** to another aggressive douche bag...

what am I missing here?

The saddest thing ive heard was when some guy broke into a family home and tied up the husband and kids. He then raped there mother as everyone was forced to watch because they were tied up to chairs facing the bed. he then killed her and left.

Thanks for sharing.

Tell him to move on; unless he's an obsessive nut-job, he will.

Now, do you think the girlfriend first became attracted/wet to the other guy when he first humiliated her boyfriend?

He will probably pick someone else who will cheat on him.

Originally posted by Robtard
Now, do you think the girlfriend first became attracted/wet to the other guy when he first humiliated her boyfriend?

she sounds like the type

Originally posted by inimalist
she sounds like the type

So if the dude had been a better fighter, he wouldn't have lost the ability to make the girl wet.

Originally posted by Robtard
So if the dude had been a better fighter, he wouldn't have lost the ability to make the girl wet.

I suppose if that is the type of girl you want to make wet...

Originally posted by inimalist
I suppose if that is the type of girl you want to make wet...

The story does say the protagonist tried to make the girl wet, but failed after being beaten down by another/better man.

"one night it was even impossible to get her wet, she was completely dry down there despite the long foreplay." -Protagonist


-


Did anyone else find this extremely odd: "and watch cute kittens on the Internet, among others." If a 25 year old woman used that excuse on me, I'd not be fooled.

Obviously the only viable solution left for our protagonist is a double homicide.

the answer is obvious beat the living shit out of the guy since thats what the girl is into...

maim him so to supress any retaliation.

Originally posted by 0mega Spawn
the answer is obvious beat the living shit out of the guy since thats what the girl is into...

maim him so to supress any retaliation.

Now this is a man who thinks straight.

Originally posted by inimalist
wow, an aggressive, intrusive, possessive douche bag loses a **** to another aggressive douche bag...

what am I missing here?

I don't think the guy is aggressive. But I did find his spying to be a bit too much.




We only read one side of the story. I'm sure the lady would have something to say about things he had done which drove her away. He might shit and not flush, verbally abuse her, have unreasonable demands, and so forth. For me, I can't ever take sides in these types of things until I hear both sides and then get a third party to back up some things.



It is not the end of the world. This guy will get over it. Tell him that in his next relationship, she should not be such a doucebag. he seems controlling. He may do better if he finds himself a rural chinese gal or a Vietnamese gal: they are generally very submissive to their husbands. Seems like he wants that type of person.

Yes break-ups are sad.
Sadder when one is found cheating on the other.
Hell, I'm not perfect, I've been on both ends.

Another sad story, a guy once broke down & told me.
It was going to be his 30th Wedding Anniversary coming up & unfortunately he was called o/seas on a business trip. Anyway on the night itself, his wife sent him his favourite bottle of wine to his hotel room & a card saying, "Happy 30th, Miss you & Love you heaps, Here's to another 30 years together blah blah blah." Suffice to say, it made his night being away from his wife, alone in a hotel room...

Two days later, he arrived back home to an empty house. All his wife's belongings were gone & a note saying that she's been having an affair behind his back for years & she's finally leaving him.
Go figure.

Lol, i will never get married. Even with all the women who want to marry me i will never do it.

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
Lol, i will never get married. Even with all the women who want to marry me i will never do it.

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
Lol, i will never get married. Even with all the women who want to marry me i will never do it.

Playa Playa from da Himalyas.

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
Lol, i will never get married. Even with all the women who want to marry me i will never do it.

Closet's not big enough?

Originally posted by Esau Cairn
Closet's not big enough?

Nice one.

I want to hear from Astner. Odd that we haven't seen him after the OP.

I'd like to thank the ones who've contributed. I've loosely followed this threat at school -- hence why I haven't been logged in -- and I've read every post.

I'd also like to give the middle finger to the people without any sense of empathy or morality, and I'll leave it at that.

I've been chatting with the guy, Peter, for hours and I'm sad to say that it hasn't gotten much better.

At he beginning he had hanging around her facebook, where she had updated her status to: "At the good-looking guy's place." So she wasn't really going to her parents house to think things over.

Yesterday she had sent him an SMS when he was at the gym, saying: "I'm going to go get my stuff at Wednesday, I'll take the cats."

I mean that the **** is wrong with this woman? Doesn't she realize that she has behaves like a total whore?

Originally posted by dadudemon
We only read one side of the story.
Because cheating on your partner can be justified as the right course of action, am I following you correctly?

Originally posted by Digi
I want to hear from Astner. Odd that we haven't seen him after the OP.
Mainly due to school, but I've also been chatting with Peter.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I don't think the guy is aggressive.

I've had drunk guys try to start shit with me at bars before, and never gotten in a fight by ignoring them or avoiding them.

If your answer is to start pushing them, you have nothing to complain about when you get ktfo, and I'd call you aggressive.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Your friend was a fool to get this close to someone.
costanza

Originally posted by Astner


I'd also like to give the middle finger to the people without any sense of empathy or morality, and I'll leave it at that.


At he beginning he had hanging around her facebook, where she had updated her status to: "At the good-looking guy's place." So she wasn't really going to her parents house to think things over.

You have a history of being rude in here, so you really shouldn't cry now. Very poor form.

Well, tell Peter to look on the bright-side, seems she didn't leave him cos he can't handle himself in a fight, but because the other is better looking; that's something he can't control.

Originally posted by Robtard
Tell him to move on; unless he's an obsessive nut-job, he will.
This.

What happened to him sucks, and he could use emotional support; however.......yeah....

World + spinning. Clocks + ticking. Fish + sea. Pick your saying. They all apply.

Its just far more fun having sex with thousands of women than being stuck with one woman.
of course im going to use protection though. i dont need to ever get married. atleast untill im old enough to want a family

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
Its just far more fun having sex with thousands of women than being stuck with one woman.


The next Wilt Chamberlain

Originally posted by Astner
I'd also like to give the middle finger to the people without any sense of empathy or morality, and I'll leave it at that.

Well, this is the internet, so you shouldn't be terribly surprised. And what you're talking about is unfortunate but isn't particularly tragic as these things go. It happens. Hell, it's happened to me. Not in as dramatic a fashion, granted, but a long-time gf ditched me and was with a guy the next week that she had been friends with (and quite possibly "friends" with all the implications of the quotations). They were engaged less than 2 months later. And you know what I did? I got upset for a little while, then got over it maybe 2 weeks later and moved on, because I'm an adult with a sense of perspective.

So some of the sarcasm is because of that, and also because, if she keeps laying on with overtly "evil" actions, it should actually make it easier for your friend to eventually be like "Huh. Bullet dodged, I guess."

Originally posted by Astner
Because cheating on your partner can be justified as the right course of action, am I following you correctly?

Of course not, that's not a fair question. The "two sides to every story" is particularly true in many relationships. Her side likely doesn't vindicate her actions, in fact it almost certainly doesn't, but it might also provide some rationale or insight into the reasons behind it. And the people who are least likely to be unbiased about interpreting events are those closest to it. That's all that's being said.

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
Its just far more fun having sex with thousands of women than being stuck with one woman.
of course im going to use protection though. i dont need to ever get married. atleast untill im old enough to want a family

Who is this in response to? Who do you imagine is interested in this?

The "Big C" in his name ain't a coincidence.

Don't be jelly.

It's not even the "thousand women" comment that baffles me. Needless internet posturing has been around since I was running through text-based MUD's (my favorite old-school reference). But it's how out of context his posts seem.

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
Its just far more fun having sex with thousands of women than being stuck with one woman.
of course im going to use protection though. i dont need to ever get married. atleast untill im old enough to want a family you say that now.

I was just like that a month ago till I met a ****ing goddess.
everything about her amazing.

not saying she the one but she changed my view on relationships. I realise now
1 girl you love > randoms whom you hope aren't infected

Originally posted by 0mega Spawn
1 girl you love > randoms whom you hope aren't infected

I, too, fear becoming part of the zombie horde in the coming apocalypse before getting the chance to do some movie-style zombie-bashin'

Originally posted by Astner
Because cheating on your partner can be justified as the right course of action, am I following you correctly?

No, that would be a strawman. That's neither stated nor implied in my post.

But, to directly address what you stated: both would be at fault. There are definitely two sides. He seems like he might be overbearing and emotionally abusive.

Originally posted by inimalist
If your answer is to start pushing them, you have nothing to complain about when you get ktfo, and I'd call you aggressive.

That's not very aggressive, at all. It would appear that the gent was just responding to being physically accosted. Was he not pushed first? I would say his reaction was quite calm.

Originally posted by Robtard
You have a history of being rude in here, so you really shouldn't cry now. Very poor form.
There's a difference in taking jabs calling someone an MTV damaged whore when they're barraged by compliments for exposing their cleavage, and being completely void of empathy, rolling your eyes to a fellow human being going through a tough time of his life.

I tease my girlfriend all the time, and I can quite crude to some of my friends too. But I don't do that when they're vulnerable. I know better than that.

Originally posted by Astner
There's a difference in taking jabs calling someone an MTV damaged whore when they're barraged by compliments for exposing their cleavage, and being completely void of empathy, rolling your eyes to a fellow human being going through a tough time of his life.

I tease my girlfriend all the time, and I can quite crude to some of my friends too. But I don't do that when they're vulnerable. I know better than that.

Your friend's not reading this though, so who cares, he's ignorant to the negative comments that may or may not be in here, unless you intend on being a dick and telling him what others said.

Great, you know them and they know you, there's a difference between calling your girlfriend a fatty and someone who doesn't know you online.

Your argument boils down to: "wah, it's not okay when it's someone I care about." As I said, very poor form; grow up.

Originally posted by Robtard
Your argument boils down to: "wah, it's not okay when it's someone I care about." As I said, very poor form; grow up.
No. My argument boils down to: There's a difference in hitting someone when they're up, and kicking them while they're lying down.

I don't know this guy more than I know dadudemon, we've met in a online game a few years back and we've exchanged a few rows over the course of a few years. I've never met him face to face. If dadudemon got dumped I'd support him too.

This is hilarious.

Originally posted by Astner
No. My argument boils down to: There's a difference in hitting someone when they're up, and kicking them while they're lying down. And yet, talking smack on an internet forum that the guy doesn't even know exists is not "kicking him while he's down". If he had made this thread and was reading these comments, then it would be. The fact that you're incapable of understanding that is a sign of your social awkwardness.

Am I the only one that thinks this story is funny?

Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
social awkwardness.
My impression of every Astner post.

Originally posted by Mindset
Am I the only one that thinks this story is funny?

no, it is pretty laugh worthy

Originally posted by dadudemon
No, that would be a strawman. That's neither stated nor implied in my post.

you really like this word, "strawman". i suggest learning what it means.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
you really like this word, "strawman". i suggest learning what it means.

Because you said this, that automatically means you do not know what a "strawman" argument actually is. I have seen this a lot on KMC, actually. Please go look up what that means. If your ego is not too big, you should then apologize to me.

Originally posted by inimalist
I've had drunk guys try to start shit with me at bars before, and never gotten in a fight by ignoring them or avoiding them.

I think I have told you this before but you have been very lucky not to get your ass kicked beyond recognition. One of the stupidest things you can do is ignore someone when they are "stepping up". That just infuriates people beacuse it makes you seem like you are so far above them as to not acknowledge them (might be the difference between an American club and a Canadian one).

However, you also told me a story of when you actually had to fight back because you feared your life. I do not consider you aggressive/bad for having done that.

Originally posted by inimalist
If your answer is to start pushing them, you have nothing to complain about when you get ktfo, and I'd call you aggressive.

Thing is...you should apologize profusely if you don't want to fight. You should definitely not ignore. If you are tired of someone being in your face and pushing you, sucker punch and move on. Nothing wrong with: sucker punching aggressive douchebags that will not stop pushing you down OR apologizing profusely. Both those options are fine, to me.

Originally posted by Astner
I don't know this guy more than I know dadudemon, we've met in a online game a few years back and we've exchanged a few rows over the course of a few years. I've never met him face to face. If dadudemon got dumped I'd support him too.

I do believe you know me better than most KMC members.

But, wow, thanks man!

I would kick DDD when he's down.

Originally posted by Astner
No. My argument boils down to: There's a difference in hitting someone when they're up, and kicking them while they're lying down.

I don't know this guy more than I know dadudemon, we've met in a online game a few years back and we've exchanged a few rows over the course of a few years. I've never met him face to face. If dadudemon got dumped I'd support him too.

Yes, there is a difference between the two scenarios you've listed; nothing of the sort is happening here though. So all you're doing is crying cos you've made this story involve you/you're invested in it, when you'd have no problem being as ass online to others (as you have in the past) when you're not invested in the person. Poor form, still.

Yeah, read above, you're a odd, odd, odd, odd person. It's worse that you barely know this guy besides the fact that he'll never read any of the comments you've deemed negative and you're for some reason upset over it. What happens if someone insults someone you actually are close to and care about? Do you implode into a singularity of tears and rage? Relax.

Originally posted by dadudemon
That's not very aggressive, at all. It would appear that the gent was just responding to being physically accosted. Was he not pushed first? I would say his reaction was quite calm. yea, he was just trying not to get emasculated. but maybe the problem was that he pushed the guy back rather than attacking him outright.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
you really like this word, "strawman". i suggest learning what it means. I believe it is used to describe a sort of mannequin made of straw to frighten away pests from one's crops.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I would kick DDD when he's down.

That's a great idea...don't even give people a chance to fight back.

im happy that you are finally exploring the perils of fallacious comments in a discussion and hope you one day find the humility to apply it to your own statements. for instance, this:

Originally posted by dadudemon
If your ego is not too big, you should then apologize to me.

...is a false dilemma.





anyway, by declaring that you needed the other side of the story, that left only 2 possible implications:

1-her cheating may have been justified/cheating can sometimes be justified.
2-the story was a lie or contained some fabrication/she did not cheat at all.

granted he jumped the gun and assumed you took position 1. however this is not strawman.

strawman is the fallacy of misrepresenting one's position in order to create an effigy. its done in order to sell others on your own position.



you just want to apply it to each and every misunderstanding or misinterpreting of someone's statement or position. (which you seem never able to express without surrounding it in an essay of wild irrelevancy that few bother to translate). you use it so broadly and inappropriately that a conversation can go like this:

ddm: man i stubbed my toe this morning
me: well, you should look where you're walking.
ddm: STRAWMAN!!! i wasnt walking. a book landed on my foot.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
...is a false dilemma.
...what?

In order for something to be a fallacy it has to be used as an argument. That's not an argument, that's shit talking.

Originally posted by Robtard
Yes, there is a difference between the two scenarios you've listed; nothing of the sort is happening here though. So all you're doing is crying cos you've made this story involve you/you're invested in it, when you'd have no problem being as ass online to others (as you have in the past) when you're not invested in the person. Poor form, still.

Yeah, read above, you're a odd, odd, odd, odd person. It's worse that you barely know this guy besides the fact that he'll never read any of the comments you've deemed negative and you're for some reason upset over it. What happens if someone insults someone you actually are close to and care about? Do you implode into a singularity of tears and rage? Relax. Maybe this "friend" is closer to Astner than he lets on.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Maybe this "friend" is closer to Astner than he lets on.

Considering what he just claimed about barely knowing this person and this person sharing this type of sensitive info with him, it highly possible you're correct; that the protagonist in the story is indeed Astner and his GF left him for a better looking fighter who isn't invading her privacy with spyware.

Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
...what?

In order for something to be a fallacy it has to be used as an argument. That's not an argument, that's shit talking.

....it was used in an argument.

Originally posted by Robtard
Considering what he just claimed about barely knowing this person and this person sharing this type of sensitive info with him, it highly possible you're correct; that the protagonist in the story is indeed Astner and his GF left him for a better looking fighter who isn't invading her privacy with spyware. Come on dude. We all know that Astner is built like Superman, is the epitome of masculine beauty, has a penis ten miles long and thick as a few city blocks, and is the most charming and intelligent person imaginable. I mean, dude, he has told us this on numerous occasions, remember? estahuh

Wow, I didn't even catch that when I read it, lol.

i can see that you both want to help out your friend, and thats admirable, but that was not a false dilemma. ...unless you want to point out a possible implication that i left out?

Originally posted by focus4chumps
im happy that you are finally exploring the perils of fallacious comments in a discussion and hope you one day find the humility to apply it to your own statements. for instance, this:



...is a false dilemma.

Well, it's not. Nice try. You really are not good with logical fallacies even a little bit as you have proven with your improper invocation of "false dilemma'. You didn't even come close to properly representing what a false dilemma was because I only provided one option and one solution to that option.





Originally posted by focus4chumps
anyway, by declaring that you needed the other side of the story, that left only 2 possible implications:

1-her cheating may have been justified/cheating can sometimes be justified.
2-the story was a lie or contained some fabrication/she did not cheat at all.


See, this is actually a false dilemma.

You also said this of the above argument:

Originally posted by focus4chumps
i can see that you both want to help out your friend, and thats admirable, but that was not a false dilemma. ...unless you want to point out a possible implication that i left out?

So here's why it really is a false dilemma.

There are other options other than 2 choices.

Such as the one that I pointed out that is explicitly outined if you read my posts in this thread instead of dishonestly representing my points with out of context "snips" and "clips".

Originally posted by dadudemon
I'm sure the lady would have something to say about things he had done which drove her away. He might shit and not flush, verbally abuse her, have unreasonable demands, and so forth. For me, I can't ever take sides in these types of things until I hear both sides and then get a third party to back up some things.


The strawman was misrepresenting my argument to mean anything other than the above. He assumed it meant something that was not represented in my argument (nothing against Astner: this is his homie so he has a vested interest in trying to defend him...most of us are bias towards or friends). Not once did I say she was justified in leaving him. Notice that Astner quoted only that particular section of my post, as well? If he does so, then he can support the path of a strawman that says I justified her ability to cheat.

However, the strawman is not fully realized until you get into the rhetoric of his statement. His implications with his rhetorical questions are thus: "Cheating is not justified."

Behold, the actual reason it is a strawman.


However, you already knew that but just like to troll me because you're still sore over past arguments. You'll get over me: I promise.


Originally posted by focus4chumps
strawman is the fallacy of misrepresenting one's position in order to create an effigy. its done in order to sell others on your own position.

Well, then you agree that it was a strawman, then. You usually end up proving me right in most of our discussions and it is getting old. Troll better, please.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
you just want to apply it to each and every misunderstanding or misinterpreting of someone's statement or position.

No, I want to apply it to every situation in which someone misrepresents a position of mine and then argues against that position. You can clearly note that I do not call things "strawman" that are not actually strawman arguments. It is just that everyone uses strawman arguments so often that it seems like I use it a lot. I really don't. For some reason, most strawman arguments I encounter occur in business meetings or in the GDF (where I frequent on KMC): "A plague a' both your houses."

Originally posted by focus4chumps
(which you seem never able to express without surrounding it in an essay of wild irrelevancy that few bother to translate).

Incorrect. But you love your misrepresentations of what actually takes place.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
you use it so broadly and inappropriately that a conversation can go like this:

ddm: man i stubbed my toe this morning
me: well, you should look where you're walking.
ddm: STRAWMAN!!! i wasnt walking. a book landed on my foot.

Incorrect.

Here is a more proper representation:

dadudemon: These women should be allowed to abort their babies because they run a strong risk of both of them dying. That defeats the purpose to a 'right to life' to begin with.
you: oh, so now you're saying that we should abort every baby because there is always potential death risk to both the mother and the child in every pregnancy?
dadudemon: No. That's a strawman. I clearly indicated that only those with strong risks should abort.
you: rofl rofl! oh man. you don't even know how to use strawman. hahahaha.



Note: I was thorough in representing your refusal to use capital letters.

lol , i think this is his story and not his "friend"

move the hell on with life

Originally posted by NemeBro
Come on dude. We all know that Astner is built like Superman

http://unrealitymag.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/fat-superman.jpg

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
lol , i think this is his story and not his "friend"

move the hell on with life
Way to say what I said with less subtlety.

the world is cold, no need to be polite

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
the world is cold, no need to be polite
But originality is a virtue.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Way to say what I said with less subtlety.


Wait, you didn't say that.


Originally posted by Omega Vision
Maybe this "friend" is closer to Astner than he lets on.

Oh.


Honestly, I did not interpret that out of your post the first time I read it. But "friend" in quotes makes sense, now, in retrospect.

I still say maim the other guy...

Originally posted by dadudemon
Originally posted by dadudemon
I'm sure the lady would have something to say about things he had done which drove her away. He might shit and not flush, verbally abuse her, have unreasonable demands, and so forth. For me, I can't ever take sides in these types of things until I hear both sides and then get a third party to back up some things.


wow

the claim was made that she cheated. here you present possibilities in which cheating might have been justified. therefore you suggest that cheating is sometimes justifiable.

are you just trolling or are you really this angry and ill equipped to discuss the simplest of topics?

Originally posted by focus4chumps
wow

the claim was made that she cheated. here you present possibilities in which cheating might have been justified. therefore you suggest that cheating is sometimes justifiable.

are you just trolling or are you really this angry and ill equipped to discuss the simplest of topics?

Do you think cheating is absolutely bad?

I think there could be cases where it is justified.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Do you think cheating is absolutely bad?

I think there could be cases where it is justified.

i was not trying to argue ethics. since you ask, i think its a useless and petty venture when the better option is always to simply get out of the relationship (be it temp or perm).

Originally posted by focus4chumps
i was not trying to argue ethics. since you ask, i think its a useless and petty venture when the better option is always to simply get out of the relationship.

I would agree, but I don't know all of the circumstances.

i cant think of a proper scenario for cheating.

the closest i can come to is revenge cheating-mate screws around on you, you do the same in turn to teach them a lesson-in a case where both parties still find their relationship salvagable. or to expand the term and apply it to "open" relationships, which some people seem to prefer. perhaps even a separated, yet still legally married couple going through a divorce.

as far as being in a crappy relationship, i dont see what there is to gain by making it even crappier.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
i cant think of a proper scenario for cheating.

the closest i can come to is revenge cheating-mate screws around on you, you do the same in turn to teach them a lesson-in a case where both parties still find their relationship salvagable. or to expand the term and apply it to "open" relationships, which some people seem to prefer. perhaps even a separated, yet still legally married couple going through a divorce.

as far as being in a crappy relationship, i dont see what there is to gain by making it even crappier.

I'm only disagreeing with the absoluteness I was getting from you. It could have been a result of arguing with dadudemon.

Have a good day.

its ok. its not like you said a thing and then went on to type an essay trying to convince me you didnt say it.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
wow

The "wow" is that you felt like there was anything hope or substance of saving the troll-attempt that failed before you posted it. But let's read on to see how sad your attempt has gotten:

Originally posted by focus4chumps
the claim was made that she cheated. here you present possibilities in which cheating might have been justified.

Incorrect. I presented reasons for why she may have cheated, not that she was justified. By the way, what you just tried to do is called a strawman.

Even IF you did not read the words after "two sides to the story", you still got clarification from my reply to Astner after he presented his strawman-esque rhetoric: thus your original unnecessary comments were not even appropriate. But we both know it was troll-thymes for you.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
therefore you suggest that cheating is sometimes justifiable.

A false premise has lead to a false conclusion.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
are you just trolling or are you really this angry and ill equipped to discuss the simplest of topics?

Ahhh. Here it is. The pretend the other is trolling, tactic. Keep in mind, I have fleshed out all facets of your troll-attempt. Now you've resorted to the sad and pitiful tactic of accusing others of trolling when you yourself were trolling right out of the gate.


At this point, I think I can just copy and paste my replies to you because you've become rather circular in your troll attempt.


Originally posted by focus4chumps
...the better option is always to simply get out of the relationship (be it temp or perm).

I agree.

I don't think cheating is ever justified.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
its ok. its not like you said a thing and then went on to type an essay trying to convince me you didnt say it.

More reality warping, eh? Sad.

Can you guys just get this over with and **** already?

There's been awkward sexual tension between you two for at least weeks, maybe months.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Can you guys just get this over with and **** already?

There's been awkward sexual tension between you two for at least weeks, maybe months.

Try years.

Oops. I've said too much.

you just keep typing nonsense in order to avoid the blatant fact of what you said. and you want to lecture me about ego.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
you just keep typing nonsense in order to avoid the blatant fact of what you said. and you want to lecture me about ego.

Originally posted by dadudemon
More reality warping, eh? Sad.

What's sad about reality warping? Funky Matrix moves are da shit.

She should have talked to him and broke up if she wanted to be with another guy. You can't help who you fall in love with or lust after, but you can be honest and fair to your partner.

Anyways, he'll probably get over it in time.

Astner is trying to get over it right now.
That's why he's not responding to any of our comments.

Time is a healer, my friends... yes, Time is a healer.

Originally posted by dadudemon
(continued attempt at jedi mind trick)

hmmm...maybe you didnt actually say what you clearly said. also these aren't the droids we're looking for.

Originally posted by Bardock42
She should have talked to and broke up if she wanted to be with another guy. You can't help who you fall in love with or lust after, but you can be honest and fair to your partner.

Anyways, probably get over it in time.

*corrected for accuracy

So it's settled, everyone agrees it's actually Astner in the story and he was reaching out for some consolation and advice. The thread title does make sense now, from his perspective, it likely is the saddest thing to happen to him.

We should probably not be dicks since he got his ass kicked, lost his girl to a better looking guy and had to use invasive software on her property to discover it.

Keep your chin up Astner, the grief will pass. Sorry about the inconsiderate comments before, I had no idea they'd strike home. Condolences.

Originally posted by Robtard
So it's settled, everyone agrees it's actually Astner in the story and he was reaching out for some consolation and advice. The thread title does make sense now, from his perspective, it likely is the saddest thing to happen to him.

We should probably not be dicks since he got his ass kicked, lost his girl to a better looking guy and had to use invasive software on her property to discover it.

Keep your chin up Astner, the grief will pass. Sorry about the inconsiderate comments before, I had no idea they'd strike home. Condolences.

Wow! Doesn't he know that he should have came to use all and truthfully tell use the sad things in his life, so we all could openly mock him. This was just a waist of our time.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Wow! Doesn't he know that he should have came to use all and truthfully tell use the sad things in his life, so we all could openly mock him. This was just a waist of our time.



That's not very Om Ma Ni Pad Me Cum of you.

Originally posted by Robtard
That's not very Om Ma Ni Pad Me Cum of you.

Someone who would tell these people anything personal, had ether never read anything posted here or...

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
Astner is trying to get over it right now.
That's why he's not responding to any of our comments.

Time is a healer, my friends... yes, Time is a healer.

And so is Tim, he's a doctor and everything.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
hmmm...maybe you didnt actually say what you clearly said.

Originally posted by dadudemon
More reality warping, eh? Sad.









Originally posted by Robtard
So it's settled, everyone agrees it's actually Astner in the story and he was reaching out for some consolation and advice.

No, I do not agree with that. I think it is someone else and Astner still has his own girlfriend.

Originally posted by dadudemon
No, I do not agree with that. I think it is someone else and Astner still has his own girlfriend.
I think the main reason why I and others have leaned toward the conclusion that Astner is speaking in the cryptic third person is that while I can believe someone like Astner sharing such personal information on a forum full of people he barely knows (a very socially awkward thing to do, especially given how this forum is anything but a comforting sewing circle), I don't want to believe that there's someone who would share this information to Astner--someone who the original figure doesn't know in person--and then Astner would want to show it off second hand to a third group. I don't want to believe in a chain of tangentially related sympathy whoring.

That is sort of my view as well.

I couldn't imagine myself sharing personal information with a sociopath like Astner. Or that Astner is capable of sympathy for another human being.

Originally posted by dadudemon
No, I do not agree with that. I think it is someone else and Astner still has his own girlfriend.

While you might be correct, if you factor in the nature of the information and that by Astner's own admission he barely knows this person, it's far more likely Astner was punched out, his GF cheated on him, gave excuses that she was watching kitten vids online and Astner had to find out by invading her privacy.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I can believe someone like Astner sharing such personal information on a forum full of people he barely knows...

I know many people on KMC much better than I do people who call me "friend" in the real world. Astner is a smart person with a decent memory: I would dare say he knows a lot of us quite well.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
(a very socially awkward thing to do, especially given how this forum is anything but a comforting sewing circle),

I disagree. I feel comfortable around most people here (to which I frequently talk) and I do share personal information (as do you and many others). We are just smart enough to draw the line at PII.



Originally posted by Omega Vision
I don't want to believe that there's someone who would share this information to Astner--someone who the original figure doesn't know in person--and then Astner would want to show it off second hand to a third group.

Some people really hit it off in like 5 minutes. Then they act as though they have been friends for years. Surely there's someone out there that would do the same with Astner? Also, Astner has kept the person anonymous and the text is not searchable on the internet (other than KMCs result) so it remains anonymous. He also wanted advice on what to do. He obviously trusts us enough to get at least some decent feedback and he did get that.


Originally posted by Omega Vision
I don't want to believe in a chain of tangentially related sympathy whoring.

I don't see that, either. As you can tell, I didn't give his friend's situation any sort of sympathy or empathy. I asked for the other side of the story. Generally speaking, both parties are at some sort of fault during a messy break-up like this. Humans are generally not idealistically "good" or "evil". As apparent from the story, the ex-boyfriend does seem overbearing/controlling. Almost disturbingly so. If I were to guess, I would say he is also verbally abusive.

So we could give out sympathy...but it doesn't seem right. So, basically, we agree here, but not for the same reasons.

Originally posted by Robtard
...it's far more likely Astner was punched out, his GF cheated on him, gave excuses that she was watching kitten vids online and Astner had to find out by invading her privacy.

I believe that old excuse/thing against Astner was: "You don't even have a girlfriend. Stop lyin'."


What about the writing style being completely different from Astner's? What about the tone of the e-mail being completely different from Astner's usual tone? Not that those can be faked, but I tend to think I can pick up on those things when I look closely (which I have). I could be wrong, obviously.


Just sayin'...for me, it is much harder to believe that that is Astner's text.

Research shows that men have a harder time during breakups because they do not have that support network of friends to discuss the breakup like women do. Breakups are more difficult for men. Knowing this, it does not seem out of place that an almost "stranger" to Astner would seek help. He may have no one else to turn to or trust.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I believe that old excuse/thing against Astner was: "You don't even have a girlfriend. Stop lyin'."


What about the writing style being completely different from Astner's? What about the tone of the e-mail being completely different from Astner's usual tone? Not that those can be faked, but I tend to think I can pick up on those things when I look closely (which I have). I could be wrong, obviously.


Just sayin'...for me, it is much harder to believe that that is Astner's text.

Research shows that men have a harder time during breakups because they do not have that support network of friends to discuss the breakup like women do. Breakups are more difficult for men. Knowing this, it does not seem out of place that an almost "stranger" to Astner would seek help. He may have no one else to turn to or trust.

Back in the day when he was eBating his supposed prowess, he probably didn't have a girlfriend. But considering this story, I doubt he'd make a story up about a GF he didn't have.

You'll notice that Astner also made a lot more errors than he usually does, he tends to make mistakes when he's emotional, compared to when he's calm and just insulting people or talking about anime. The writing cadence seems about right, imo.

Again, I'm not saying you're wrong as fact, but I'm going with what I see as the most probable scenario; this is Astner's story, ergo my more compassionate approach towards him. Cos, d'aaammnn, dude. Ouch.

Astner also loves when people talk about him online, so we're likely helping him here.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Astner is a smart person with a decent memory: I would dare say he knows a lot of us quite well.
Not if he's socially retarded, he doesn't. That's the thing about being socially retarded. A lot of smart individuals suffer from such autism and lack the ability to read other people properly.

Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
Not if he's socially retarded, he doesn't. That's the thing about being socially retarded. A lot of smart individuals suffer from such autism and lack the ability to read other people properly.

This is correct, my screen name comes from the nickname(I didn't dub him) of an ex-coworker named Robert who was very intelligent when it came to math/school and such. But he had the common sense and social skills of a cardboard box.

And here I thought it was because you were intellectually impaired.

Originally posted by NemeBro
And here I thought it was because you were intellectually impaired.

http://static5.businessinsider.com/image/4ebae9256bb3f76513000015-401-301/man-eating-mcdonalds-mcrib.jpg

I'd appreciate it if you'd not take pictures from my facebook and post them on random chat boards.

Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
I'd appreciate it if you'd not take pictures from my facebook and post them on random chat boards.

Blax's Halloween of 2007.

http://unrealitymag.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/fat-spiderman3.jpg

My eyes hurt!

Semen can do that, so I'm told.

Originally posted by Robtard
http://static5.businessinsider.com/image/4ebae9256bb3f76513000015-401-301/man-eating-mcdonalds-mcrib.jpg

I love the Mac-rib. It is almost food like.