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Flat, featureless arena. No webbing, wall crawling, or shield throwing.

1. No shield for Cap.

2. Shield for Cap.

Who wins?

Spidey .

CaptainFingAmerica. With and without shield.

It should be Spider-Man every single time, but Cap's jobber aura is big, soo big...

No reason it should be Spidey every single time.

Cap's reflexes are just as good, his fighting skills are better, and truth be told, his strength/power feats are NOT far behind at all.

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
It should be Spider-Man every single time, but Cap's jobber aura is big, soo big...

It's like you're trying to argue that Spiderman is so powerful that Cap can't handle him, he's not Superman. The only big difference is strength and it doesn't mean anything if he can't hit him.

Oh and it's not a jobber aura if hes been doing stuff like that his whole entire superhero career. Thats just you not liking what happens on panel. I guess Hulk doesn't have class 100 strength which gets stonger the angrier he gets.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
his strength/power feats are NOT far behind at all.

Ok don't know about that. I kinda see what you mean. Cap strength limit should be 2 tons but you really could argue that it goes into 3, but I think that would be going too far...but you could argue it.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
No reason it should be Spidey every single time.

Cap's reflexes are just as good, his fighting skills are better, and truth be told, his strength/power feats are NOT far behind at all. Cap's reflexes are not just as good.

I take Spiderman more times than not.

Cap beats up Warpath and the U-Foes before lunch so I figure he can take bugboy easily enough.... with no shield, one hand tied behind his back, his right leg in a cast, blindfolded and a hot potato in his mouth.

Originally posted by Mshinu
Cap beats up Warpath and the U-Foes before lunch so I figure he can take bugboy easily enough.... with no shield, one hand tied behind his back, his right leg in a cast, blindfolded and a hot potato in his mouth.

Too be fair U-Foes can job and I do think they got there arses jobbed out then.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Cap's reflexes are just as good
No they aren't.


True.


Wow. So wrong.

At best, Cap is class 2. Spider-Man is, on paper, class 10 but he has lifted way more than that.

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
At best, Cap is class 2. Spider-Man is, on paper, class 10 but he has lifted way more than that.

That same line of logic applies to Cap, as well.

On paper, he's listed as "peak human", but through actual displayed feats, he absolutely craps on that label. The guy's definitively superhuman. Not Spider-Man range, imo, but definitely beyond anything remotely human.

Spiderman definitely

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
No they aren't.

Yes, they are. Spiderman has his Spidey sense. But Cap's senses are so heightened that it doesn't matter. This is the same guy who is stated on panel to be able to bullet time specifically because he 'sees faster', than normal men.



Absolutely not. Cap is FAR above class 2.

2 tons is just a mid-to-large 4 door car.

That is nothing compared to the weights Cap has handled.

Spiderman's best strength feat is probably bracing a mid-sized building from collapsing, and from my recollection Cap has a feat or two doing the same kinda thing.

Their average, is also fairly comparable. Breaking steel chains, busting through steel doors etc.

In a feat war, I guarantee you that Cap won't look much worse than Spidey.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
On paper, he's listed as "peak human", but through actual displayed feats, he absolutely craps on that label. The guy's definitively superhuman. Not Spider-Man range, imo, but definitely beyond anything remotely human.
Well, like I said, class 2. Class 3 on a very, very good day. That's far above peak human.

Spider-Man. After Cap's superior skill and experience let him land one or two good blows, the faster, stronger Pete gets serious, sharp and acro-spider-blitzes ftw. Otherwise, Cap's edge to win involves tactics (eg, nerve hits) and psy ops (eg, piss Parker off so he gets angry and careless). Cap is a thinking fighter; SM can be a thinking fighter.

With shield I could see a tie. Without it, definitely Spidey.

At least this is how I'd write it.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
That same line of logic applies to Cap, as well.

On paper, he's listed as "peak human", but through actual displayed feats, he absolutely craps on that label. The guy's definitively superhuman. Not Spider-Man range, imo, but definitely beyond anything remotely human. He was going by feats, not bios, when he listed Cap's strength as 2tons. 2 tons is just Cap's average strength, not his top. IMO, Cap can be as strong as about 5tons, based off feats.

Spidey edges Cap in both.
But in a fight where Spidey can use webbing then it's a stomp.

Originally posted by CosmicComet

Spiderman's best strength feat is probably bracing a mid-sized building from collapsing, and from my recollection Cap has a feat or two doing the same kinda thing.


Along with punching a T-Rex :http://t2.gstatic.com/images? q=tbn:ANd9GcRSZ_PNSu6Wptji9DwZwZUHpxeeXT1BfcUlBtav
PknQaxvvQaim

*sigh* Why does Spiderman win this? Give reasons and stop saying he wins. This is like the Batman thread.

Originally posted by CosmicComet


Spiderman's best strength feat is probably bracing a mid-sized building from collapsing, and from my recollection Cap has a feat or two doing the same kinda thing.


Spider man has strength feats like web swinging tanks around.

Guys lets not get into a comparison with strength this is getting a little silly. However 10 tons is not that far away from 2.

Spidey has numerous feats that are at least in the 50-ton range. As always, handbook levels are nearly meaningless.

Speed and reflexes should not be a contest at all. Pete is arguably the most agile person in comic-dom, and his reaction and spider-sense feats trump anyone outside of speedsters and heralds.

The only things Cap has going for him are A. skill and B. their Civil War head-to-head matchup (which was inconclusive). And I'll remind everyone that Pete has kung-fu MA skill now, so the skill edge would still be with Cap, but the gap is considerably smaller than it once was.

Basically, I don't see a way to argue for Cap winning here. At best for him, it's a tough fight. At worst, he loses soundly.

Originally posted by Digi
Spidey has numerous feats that are at least in the 50-ton range. As always, handbook levels are nearly meaningless.

Speed and reflexes should not be a contest at all. Pete is arguably the most agile person in comic-dom, and his reaction and spider-sense feats trump anyone outside of speedsters and heralds.

The only things Cap has going for him are A. skill and B. their Civil War head-to-head matchup (which was inconclusive). And I'll remind everyone that Pete has kung-fu MA skill now, so the skill edge would still be with Cap, but the gap is considerably smaller than it once was.

Basically, I don't see a way to argue for Cap winning here. At best for him, it's a tough fight. At worst, he loses soundly.
Well said.

Bugboy gets smacked around again.

http://lounge.moviecodec.com/images/attachment/captain-america-vs-batman-11425.jpg

Originally posted by Mshinu
Bugboy gets smacked around again.

- Use thumbnails
- That was before he knew Kung-Fu
- See my earlier post (top of this page). It's mountain vs. molehill in terms of feats. But Cap wins if you're only looking at the molehill. Or if you value an inconclusive H2H with heavy context over, well, everything else.

Parker wins more times than not in both scenarios. Cap will close the gap a little with the Sgield but still Spidey

I remember the fight ended with Cap bleeding and Spider-Man taking away his shield.

Originally posted by Digi
Spidey has numerous feats that are at least in the 50-ton range. As always, handbook levels are nearly meaningless.


I'm sure he does but he doesn't hit with class 50 strength. If that were the case he would take off Morbius or Alyosha Kravinoff's head off with a punch.

Originally posted by Digi

Speed and reflexes should not be a contest at all. Pete is arguably the most agile person in comic-dom, and his reaction and spider-sense feats trump anyone outside of speedsters and heralds.


You might have to prove that. Spiderman is considered to be the most agile but alot of street levelers have similar feats. You should know this.

Originally posted by Digi


The only things Cap has going for him are A. skill and B. their Civil War head-to-head matchup (which was inconclusive). And I'll remind everyone that Pete has kung-fu MA skill now, so the skill edge would still be with Cap, but the gap is considerably smaller than it once was.


It was inconclusive because Spiderman had mechanical claws. Otherwise it would have been a straight beatdown.

Originally posted by Digi



Basically, I don't see a way to argue for Cap winning here. At best for him, it's a tough fight. At worst, he loses soundly.

If you can prove he has the kung fu skillset you got a point.

Originally posted by Digi
- Use thumbnails
- That was before he knew Kung-Fu
- See my earlier post (top of this page). It's mountain vs. molehill in terms of feats. But Cap wins if you're only looking at the molehill. Or if you value an inconclusive H2H with heavy context over, well, everything else.

Before kung fu maybe but wasn`t he also amped at the time?

Also it was hardly unconclusive, Cap whupped Parker`s butt pretty bad. Unless you think putting a minor scratch with the suprise of mech arms in return somehow balances it.

Not the first time Bugboy kisses Cap`s fist by the way.

http://lounge.moviecodec.com/images/attachment/captain-america-vs-batman-11323.jpg

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
I remember the fight ended with Cap bleeding and Spider-Man taking away his shield.

That was part of Cap plan, no read the fight again. He was bleeding because he had mechanical claws, which he doesn't have anymore...also he was upgraded.



Originally posted by Digi
- Use thumbnails
- That was before he knew Kung-Fu
- See my earlier post (top of this page). It's mountain vs. molehill in terms of feats. But Cap wins if you're only looking at the molehill. Or if you value an inconclusive H2H with heavy context over, well, everything else.

That true but Spiderman was upgraded and had tech. So you could still argue he gets stomped.

Couldn't care less.

Fact remains that Cap lost his only weapon, and that he was bleeding.

Spider-Man was just fine.

And for some reason, he never used his web. Don't ask me why. Last but not least, he worships Cap, he was like "Oh no not Cap, I don't want to fight him..."

Can't say he gave all he got, and still he made him bleed and took away his weapon. Not a bad feat at all.

Originally posted by Deadline
I'm sure he does but he doesn't hit with class 50 strength. If that were the case he would take off Morbius or Alyosha Kravinoff's head off with a punch.

Spidey pulls his punches even against numerous villains. This has been referenced many times. It's why he doesn't punch heads off every time he's breaking up an armed robbery or something.

Class 50 is Class 50. I'm not saying that's where he is necessarily, but again, he has numerous feats that are at least that impressive. We could even lowball it and cut it in half to 25, and he's still about 10x more than where most people put Cap.

Originally posted by Deadline
You might have to prove that. Spiderman is considered to be the most agile but alot of street levelers have similar feats. You should know this.

They have good feats, true. Great ones, even. Pete's best reaction feats are better than any MA'er you could name though. And it's his norm, not his high-end. Agility is literally his thing.

Prove it? How, by scan-spamming his respect thread into this thread? Take two clicks and compare for yourself.

Originally posted by Deadline
It was inconclusive because Spiderman had mechanical claws. Otherwise it would have been a straight beatdown.

Speculative. Also, I never said that wasn't a point for Cap. It is, and I stated it in my post. If it was all we had, we would say Cap wins. However, it is not all we have. And, in fact, flies in the face of their feat history. If you want to value that 1 comic (again, inconclusive) over their collective history, cool. However, I don't.

Originally posted by Deadline
If you can prove he has the kung fu skillset you got a point.

Uh...he does. There. I dun' proved it.

Does anyone doubt this? They spent an entire story arc painstakingly explaining his MA training and showing it in action. How am I supposed to prove it? Read Spider-Island and the build-up to it. There's your proof.

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
Couldn't care less.


You don't care about facts, ok got it.

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy

Fact remains that Cap lost his only weapon, and that he was bleeding.

Spider-Man was just fine.

Obvoulsy the fact he was bleeding was because Spiderman used a weapon that he doesn't have in this thread and stated on panel that he used it because Cap hadn't planed for it is irrelevant.

No he wasn't Cap hit him with a nerve strike that made his legs numb.

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy


And for some reason, he never used his web.


Yes he did.


Originally posted by Kid Kurdy


Don't ask me why. Last but not least, he worships Cap, he was like "Oh no not Cap, I don't want to fight him..."


Yes and obvoulsy Cap loves beating on somebody who he stated he deeply respects and he knows doesn't really want to fight.

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy


Can't say he gave all he got, and still he made him bleed and took away his weapon. Not a bad feat at all.

Neither did Cap, context.

Since when does Cap hold back ? And why ? Any reason to think that ?

Spider-Man is known for holding back, that's part of who he is. Cap ? Not so much, he always gives everything he has.

Originally posted by Digi
Spidey pulls his punches even against numerous villains. This has been referenced many times. It's why he doesn't punch heads off every time he's breaking up an armed robbery or something.


Yes we know that, that doesn't mean he pulls his punches against people with legit superhuman durability.

Originally posted by Digi

Class 50 is Class 50. I'm not saying that's where he is necessarily, but again, he has numerous feats that are at least that impressive. We could even lowball it and cut it in half to 25, and he's still about 10x more than where most people put Cap.


He doesn't pull punches when hes fighting people with with superhuman durability. A bloodlusted Spiderman fought Aloysha Kravinoff and didn't kill him.

Originally posted by Digi


They have good feats, true. Great ones, even. Pete's best reaction feats are better than any MA'er you could name though. And it's his norm, not his high-end. Agility is literally his thing.


Nah you don't say. I've read a crapload of Spiderman comics as well and there isn't much between them.

Originally posted by Digi


Prove it? How, by scan-spamming his respect thread into this thread? Take two clicks and compare for yourself.


I don't need to I've read loads of Spiderman comics and seen the respect thread.

Originally posted by Digi



Speculative. Also, I never said that wasn't a point for Cap. It is, and I stated it in my post. If it was all we had, we would say Cap wins. However, it is not all we have.

O really? Lets see if I can get this straight Spiderman didn't land one punch and at the end of the fight his legs were numb because of a nerve strike. The only reason why he got hit was because of his mechanical claws and not his fighting skills. Ok if I'm speculating what are you doing, because I could even argue based on on panel feats you can't even prove that Spiderman is faster.



Originally posted by Digi


Uh...he does. There. I dun' proved it.

Does anyone doubt this? They spent an entire story arc painstakingly explaining his MA training and showing it is action. How am I supposed to prove it? Read Spider-Island and the build-up to it. There's your proof.

Thats all you need to say. Heres the problem Cap knows kung fu and has mastered it. Unfortunately the most rational explanation is that it will throw Cap for a loop t first and then he'll adapt.

Spider-Man can move faster then they can see and has spider-sense and agility far beyong caps agility. Spider-Man broke a chain holding a wrecking ball a wrecking ball weighting 3 tons and twirled it over his head at like Thor twirls his hammer oh did I metion it weight 3 tons. What Spider-Man can lift with one arm would crush Captain America. It has been stated in Marvel Universe that Spider-Man's tendons are so tight that a normal man would break their hands if they hit Spider-Man I know Captain America is peak to low level superhuman but it should still help Peter in a fight

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
Since when does Cap hold back ? And why ? Any reason to think that ?

Spider-Man is known for holding back, that's part of who he is. Cap ? Not so much, he always gives everything he has.

B-because Spiderman is a friend he deeply respects and he knew he didn't want to fight. Do you really need me to elaborate on this? Hell Cap didn't try to chop his head off or go for a death nerve strike did he?

Of course Cap holds back, it depends on the circumstance of course.

Originally posted by Deadline
Hell Cap didn't try to chop his head off or go for a death nerve strike did he?

Yeah like he always does

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
Yeah like he always does

I don't know, maybe you think you have a point.

Originally posted by Deadline
I don't know, maybe you think you have a point.
Killing somebody is always the last option, Cap hates killing people, he's not Wolverine or Deadpool.

And he will never, never, never kill somebody like Spider-Man, he respects him too much.

So don't give me that "Spider-Man was lucky Cap didn't go for a death nerve strike."

Few points about the CW fight.

1. Spidey is used to fighting at less than a quarter of his full strength. He doesn't even go full strength against villains. Cap is a soldier who has gone all out plenty of times. Let's consider his actions in AvX for a second. Cap is much more likely to put it all on the table and start talking with his fists than spidey.

2. Spidey idolizes cap and continued to do so in his head even as they fought.

3. Spidey was still unsure if he was fighting on the right side.

To give cap the win id have to envision the absolute best cap Vs an average to low-end spidey. If both cap and spidey are fighting at their best... Cap should honestly get smoked.

Yeah, that fight is the only reason anyone backing Cap has a leg to stand on, and it was so laden with context from the angst-ridden Pete that we can't really draw a conclusion from it. Why people can't understand that, in comics, emotions play an absurdly significant role in fights, is beyond me. If I had a nickel for every time Pete shuffles his feet around awkwardly, gets beat up, then takes the kid gloves off the 2nd time around and absolutely destroys a supposedly equal or superior opponent...I'd have at least a few dozen nickels.

And if their fight corroborated the other evidence we had, it wouldn't be a big deal. But it contradicts literally everything else we know about the characters.

Originally posted by Deadline
It's like you're trying to argue that Spiderman is so powerful that Cap can't handle him, he's not Superman. The only big difference is strength and it doesn't mean anything if he can't hit him.

Oh and it's not a jobber aura if hes been doing stuff like that his whole entire superhero career. Thats just you not liking what happens on panel. I guess Hulk doesn't have class 100 strength which gets stonger the angrier he gets.



Ok don't know about that. I kinda see what you mean. Cap strength limit should be 2 tons but you really could argue that it goes into 3, but I think that would be going too far...but you could argue it. You nailed it. Kurdy will ignore entire histories just because he's unhappy with the result.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/8/84609/2121606-captainamericavol31003ml6.jpg

Cap holding up the wreckage of a skyscraper over his head.


Why is Spiderman so much stronger exactly?


It doesn't show up in fights, and even in pure feat comparisons, Spiderman would not have an easy win.

Why do they have cap do stuff that he shouldn't be able to do

I think the problem is that people see that peak human label assigned to Cap and assume that he should only be in that range and everything he does out of that range is PIS or something he shouldn't do....

Only problem is that Cap's been consistently superhuman for decades.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/8/84609/2121606-captainamericavol31003ml6.jpg

Cap holding up the wreckage of a skyscraper over his head.


Why is Spiderman so much stronger exactly?


It doesn't show up in fights, and even in pure feat comparisons, Spiderman would not have an easy win.

WOuldn't that be more of a feat from the shield? Cap's strong yeah, but holding up hundreds of tons of stone, metal and other types of rubble is crap, even for him.

The way I see it, either it's PIS, or the shield absorbed all the energy impacted from the stuff falling on it, and now Cap just has to brace.

It doesn't make sense either way.

Maybe, not a bad way to look at it.

That is what I got from it, but it is still an absurdly high feat. I sort of like it.

To be honest Cap is sort of retarded lol. IMO If Cap can tank his chestmail exploding on him he can tank most of what Parker can dish out.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/8/84609/2121606-captainamericavol31003ml6.jpg

Cap holding up the wreckage of a skyscraper over his head.


Why is Spiderman so much stronger exactly?


It doesn't show up in fights, and even in pure feat comparisons, Spiderman would not have an easy win.

That's just debris with unquantifiable weight. It could be just several parts of the building that was levelled not the whole building itself.

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c281/Sixth_Winged/Amazing_Spider-Man_32-03.jpg

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c281/Sixth_Winged/spideytrain.jpg

he also supported the whole daily bugle with the whole building and him shown in panel.

However in comics, there's has to be a few people who can exceed cap's jobbing aura (squirrel girl comes to mind) and spidey is not one of them.

Cap wins.

Yeah, that bubble Cap's in is almost certainly not bearing the full weight of the building on him. That's not even trying to apply real-world physics to comics, it's just common sense.

Probably a good feat, but it's honestly unquantifiable.

Spider-man 9-10/10

Spiderman.

Originally posted by Digi
Spidey pulls his punches even against numerous villains. This has been referenced many times. It's why he doesn't punch heads off every time he's breaking up an armed robbery or something.

And look at what happened when he lost his cool against Sin Eater. He basically crippled him, and when he later confronted him, he couldn't handle what he did.. He actually jumped out the window, he was so traumatized by it.

Originally posted by Digi
Spidey has numerous feats that are at least in the 50-ton range. As always, handbook levels are nearly meaningless.

Speed and reflexes should not be a contest at all. Pete is arguably the most agile person in comic-dom, and his reaction and spider-sense feats trump anyone outside of speedsters and heralds.

The only things Cap has going for him are A. skill and B. their Civil War head-to-head matchup (which was inconclusive). And I'll remind everyone that Pete has kung-fu MA skill now, so the skill edge would still be with Cap, but the gap is considerably smaller than it once was.

Basically, I don't see a way to argue for Cap winning here. At best for him, it's a tough fight. At worst, he loses soundly.

Could not have said it better myself. Spidey wins.

Originally posted by golem370
Why do they have cap do stuff that he shouldn't be able to do

Exactly !!! when Captain America beat Warpath so easily, I gave up on marvel, the unbeatable jobber aura they put on Cap is beyond all reason. it makes him uninspiring.

Warpath is near class 100, superhuman (way past peak human) speed, agility, stamina, and senses. He has extensive warrior skills and the experience to use it effectively, there is no sane reason Cap should have beat him.

and the same would go for Spiderman, even is Spidey did not have his newfound MA skills, he has ben Spiderman for years. and I refuse to belive the same man who beat Titana (class95) and totally humilated the X-Men during the Secret War (and he was barly an adult at the time) could not beat Captian America in a straight 1 on 1 fight.

Originally posted by complexbrother
Exactly !!! when Captain America beat Warpath so easily, I gave up on marvel, the unbeatable jobber aura they put on Cap is beyond all reason. it makes him uninspiring.

Warpath is near class 100, superhuman (way past peak human) speed, agility, stamina, and senses. He has extensive warrior skills and the experience to use it effectively, there is no sane reason Cap should have beat him.

and the same would go for Spiderman, even is Spidey did not have his newfound MA skills, he has ben Spiderman for years. and I refuse to belive the same man who beat Titana (class95) and totally humilated the X-Men during the Secret War (and he was barly an adult at the time) could not beat Captian America in a straight 1 on 1 fight.

Funny you should reference Secret Wars. That SM vs. X-Men fight is exhibit A for why individual head-to-head matchups in comics can't be the "end all" argument in fights. I tend to avoid it when talking about Spidey. For one, it's not needed with all his other showings, and two, it was bad writing for the X-Men even given the mitigating circumstances the writer placed the X-Men in. So while the gap is much closer between, say, Spidey and Wolverine, I consider that encounter just as relevant as the CW Spidey/Cap dust-up when considering an outcome (i.e. not relevant at all).

But Titania's just a laborious brick who can be put down with enough punishment. Pete should compete with her, barring wildly unfavorable circumstances.

Spidey.

Originally posted by JayDaDon
Few points about the CW fight.

1. Spidey is used to fighting at less than a quarter of his full strength. He doesn't even go full strength against villains. Cap is a soldier who has gone all out plenty of times. Let's consider his actions in AvX for a second. Cap is much more likely to put it all on the table and start talking with his fists than spidey.

2. Spidey idolizes cap and continued to do so in his head even as they fought.

3. Spidey was still unsure if he was fighting on the right side.

To give cap the win id have to envision the absolute best cap Vs an average to low-end spidey. If both cap and spidey are fighting at their best... Cap should honestly get smoked. Objection, bullsh1t. There was a specific reason Cap worked Spiderman over in that fight. There couldn't be any further possible way for the comic to hammer in that reason. And none of the excuses being offered here have anything to do with it. Reread the fight. Originally posted by Digi
Yeah, that fight is the only reason anyone backing Cap has a leg to stand on, and it was so laden with context from the angst-ridden Pete that we can't really draw a conclusion from it. Why people can't understand that, in comics, emotions play an absurdly significant role in fights, is beyond me. If I had a nickel for every time Pete shuffles his feet around awkwardly, gets beat up, then takes the kid gloves off the 2nd time around and absolutely destroys a supposedly equal or superior opponent...I'd have at least a few dozen nickels.

And if their fight corroborated the other evidence we had, it wouldn't be a big deal. But it contradicts literally everything else we know about the characters. Objection again your Honor, double bullsh1t.

No need to get touchy, I just don't put much stock in that fight when Spidey has done WAY better things than Cap across the board feat-wise (outside of skill, but I've covered that). It's not being disrespectful to Cap, nor ignorant of his feats, to say he's considerably slower and weaker than SM.

If Pete were brainwashed to think Cap was Red Skull in that fight, I think he'd still get stunned early, but would then let loose and rock the **** out of him.

Originally posted by Digi
Yeah, that fight is the only reason anyone backing Cap has a leg to stand on, and it was so laden with context from the angst-ridden Pete that we can't really draw a conclusion from it. Why people can't understand that, in comics, emotions play an absurdly significant role in fights, is beyond me. If I had a nickel for every time Pete shuffles his feet around awkwardly, gets beat up, then takes the kid gloves off the 2nd time around and absolutely destroys a supposedly equal or superior opponent...I'd have at least a few dozen nickels.

And if their fight corroborated the other evidence we had, it wouldn't be a big deal. But it contradicts literally everything else we know about the characters.

^This. Cap is a soldier, when he's in a fight he's in a fight, fighting for what he believes in. That was the case during CW. Spider-man in that particular story wasn't sure if he should be fighting AT ALL, let alone Cap (someone he worshipped) he actually wanted to join him instead. Comparing that Spider-man to PIS off back-in-black-i'll-ripp-your-face-and-make-you-my-b!tch Spider-man is ridiculous.

Also, Spider-man DOES hold back and pull his punches even when fighting supervillains. It's common knowledge and been stated many times. That's the only reason Alyosha Kravinoff and many others are still alive.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Objection, bullsh1t. There was a specific reason Cap worked Spiderman over in that fight. There couldn't be any further possible way for the comic to hammer in that reason. And none of the excuses being offered here have anything to do with it. Reread the fight. Objection again your Honor, double bullsh1t.

Name one thing I said that wasn't true. It really should be obvious spider-man was holding back in this fight. Hell it wasn't even that much of a fight more like an altercation. I remember the events of the fight quite well because even upon reading it for the first time, it was OBVIOUS spiderman was holding back.

Even handicapping SpiderMan as is here, hes still MUCH faster, stronger, tougher and more agile than Cap. Cap will make him work for each and every win, but to me Spidey takes 9 / 10 without the shield for Cap, and 6 / 10 when Cap has his shield.

So, for the posters backing Cap:

Any scans/feats of how Cap deals with speedsters? I think that would be paramount here, over strength/durability feats..

Just look at every encounter that he has had with spider-man.

Originally posted by Caps Conscience
Just look at every encounter that he has had with spider-man.

All PIS or had Spidey fighting subpar.
Like Digi said it's a mountain vs. a molehill.
Taking the mountain Spidey beats CA soundly evertime.

Originally posted by cdtm
Flat, featureless arena. No webbing, wall crawling, or shield throwing.

1. No shield for Cap.

2. Shield for Cap.

Who wins? http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t414126.html

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t483582.html