Full-Powered Spectre vs Post Retcon Living Tribunal

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Waffleman22
Seeing how my joke threads are... not well recieved ive decided to just to a tradtional one that i think should be talked about more

Gods Wrath vs Gods Judgement

I personally say they are equal but i give a few rules

1.) They meet in indisclosed megaverse were they are free to do whatever
2.) Besides a power boost they are given no help from Presence or TOAA (because it would be a stalemate)
3.) No using stupid PIS like Spectre getting beat by Emperor Joker or Living Tribunal just doing nothing to stop Thanos.
4.) They see each others multiverse as a threat and are willing to kill to protect their multiverse and neither are aware of eithers connection to God nor do they care. They are bloodlusted to the MAX

Lets begin

Cogito
I don't know when the Living Tribunal was retconned, but he wins regardless

Waffleman22
I more along talking about after the Secret Wars 2 event, where he apparently became the strongest character in the Marvel after Beyonder was "retcon pencilled" by Marvel. Also i just see him as more powerful nowadays

And i using the version of Spectre that
A.) Has a power boost from the Presence
B.) The one that supposed to be strong enough to beat Mxyzptlk a being who is pretty much Omniversal in power.

Speculation you cry... Well i guess but Spectre is pretty powerful and if he is powered by the Presence a little he could put up a fair fight.

pym-ftw
LT exists outside the multiverse

Waffleman22
and Spectre doesnt exactly apply to the rules of the Multiverse now does he. I think if he has the power to wipe out all magic in the 5th Dimension he pretty much goes beyond the DC Multiverse. Heck he was stated to be powerful enough to exist beyond infinity and managed to redo all of the damage PC Superman did after he nearly destroyed the DC Megaverse

Waffleman22
Also just to add, im also giving each a power boost given to them by God, just to make it clear. IM not however allowing God to intervere at all.

pym-ftw
Has spectre ever influenced the fourth wall, because that's 1/3 of LT's job

Cogito
Originally posted by Waffleman22
I more along talking about after the Secret Wars 2 event, where he apparently became the strongest character in the Marvel after Beyonder was "retcon pencilled" by Marvel. Also i just see him as more powerful nowadays

And i using the version of Spectre that
A.) Has a power boost from the Presence
B.) The one that supposed to be strong enough to beat Mxyzptlk a being who is pretty much Omniversal in power.

Speculation you cry... Well i guess but Spectre is pretty powerful and if he is powered by the Presence a little he could put up a fair fight.

Spectre has never beaten Mxy to my knowledge.

He's been raped by 5D Imps on multiple occasions, however.

Waffleman22
Not really, i think you are talking about talking to audience. Because i think he has affected the plain before.

As ive said ive always seen them as equals in power. But LT power is constant while Spectre is always fluctuating.

Waffleman22
Again that can be pointed the fact that every time they fought Spectre was weakened or had a human host holding him down. Its been stated without this he is the second most powerful being in DC at full power. And THAT is saying a lot when youve got an entire dimension of Mxy to deal with.

Also i compare Mxy to Pre Retcon Beyonder. And i remember Beyonder making LT his btich.

Cogito
The only time the Spectre was host-less was DoV, and that was far from the most powerful Spectre we've seen.

The Spectre was designed to need a host. To say that he'd be more powerful without one is speculative at best.

Waffleman22
Didnt in Day of Vengeance he remove all the magic in the known DC Multiverse and 5th Dimension thearby removing powers from the Wizard Shazam, Phantom Stranger, Mxyzptlk, Batmite, and Zatanna each of which are without doubt Universe possibly Multiverse+ in power? Thats pretty damn impressive if you ask me. Even so i am just speculating and im not saying that Spectre would "ZOMG CURBSTOMP LIVING TRI-BUTTHOLE DC FOREVERZ smile sad ! ! #@@#J@EURH@$E" Im just saying logically they are pretty equal. Im just saying which one could find a weakness in the other because they obviously arent going beat each otehr conventionally

the Darkone
Classic Beyonder who was on another level and is greater than Mxy ,and so is Living Tribunal. Unlike Spectre the Living Tribunal is the supreme being in Marvel Omniverse, as where the Spectre dosen't have that type of jurisdiction, like his counter part LT.

At best I see LT, if it's in the MU LT rage stomps him, in DC Spectre might win but will have to work very hard for it and their still a chance he could still lose.

Waffleman22
Didnt WF Mxy destroy the Omniverse (Mxy said "And after that i destroyed everything no more Alternate Universes no more Infinite realities, Just you and ME" in a game of tag with Bat Mite. Thats not something to dwelve into lightly. I would put that WF Mxy is at least Omniversal level and thats the only time Spectre straight up lost to Mxy (though it is argued that if could have been differently if he was at full power)

Also didnt Marvel vs DC prove that they were equal in term of their repsective multiverses.

the Darkone
Originally posted by Waffleman22
Didnt WF Mxy destroy the Omniverse (Mxy said "And after that i destroyed everything no more Alternate Universes no more Infinite realities, Just you and ME" in a game of tag with Bat Mite. Thats not something to dwelve into lightly. I would put that WF Mxy is at least Omniversal level and thats the only time Spectre straight up lost to Mxy (though it is argued that if could have been differently if he was at full power)

Also didnt Marvel vs DC prove that they were equal in term of their repsective multiverses.

WF is non canon, it's more of a spoof comic



Classic Beyonder depowered himself so he could fit in the Marvel Omniverse, and he was still more powerful than the whole universe.


LT still beats Spectre

Waffleman22
Well wasnt Beyonder retconned to have never even had that much power and he imagined that he beat all the celestials?

They are about equal

Cogito
Galan's hashed out the canonicity of World's Funnest many times before, so I won't get into that again here.

Spectre has been defeated by 5D imps on multiple occasions

Quisp did it
Emperor Joker did it (w/ Mxy's power; not sure how that's PIS)
Mxy did it (WF)
Batmite did it (WF)

the Darkone
That's why we have two versions of Beyonder... Before the Retconned,the Beyonder was the most powerful character in comic book history a distant second was Crisis on Infinite Earth Anti-Monitor and Classic Molecule Man, these three alone would sh** MXy and the LT and Spectre.


At height of power Classic Beyonder would have rage stomp Mxy PC DC universe and Anti Monitor with a thought.


Now back on topic, LT wins he is more consistant in all of his appearance, where Spectre gets raped pretty much by anybody these days, which is a disgrace.

the Darkone
Originally posted by Cogito
Galan's hashed out the canonicity of World's Funnest many times before, so I won't get into that again here.

Spectre has been defeated by 5D imps on multiple occasions

Quisp did it
Emperor Joker did it (w/ Mxy's power; not sure how that's PIS)
Mxy did it (WF)
Batmite did it (WF)

I say let the monitors sort canonacy out.


I agree what you are saying about Spectre has been defeated by 5D imps on multiple occasions

Quisp did it
Emperor Joker did it (w/ Mxy's power; not sure how that's PIS)
Mxy did it (WF)
Batmite did it (WF)



like I said earlier, it's a shame a character of Spectre caliber gets molested as where he should be below Michael and more powerful than Mxy IMO.

That's DC for u

Waffleman22
If Beyonder was SOOOO powerful, How did he get retconned? Because TOAA (canon wise) probably just got tired of him. And again wasnt the idea that the PR Beyonder imagined he beat the Celestials and wasnt that powerful at all?

Im no counting for consistancy, and counting which at FULL POWER would win. And even then im kinda giving Spectre a slight power boost to make it more even

Cogito
Nobody's arguing for the Spectre here...

the Darkone
Originally posted by Waffleman22
If Beyonder was SOOOO powerful, How did he get retconned? Because TOAA (canon wise) probably just got tired of him. And again wasnt the idea that the PR Beyonder imagined he beat the Celestials and wasnt that powerful at all?

Im no counting for consistancy, and counting which at FULL POWER would win. And even then im kinda giving Spectre a slight power boost to make it more even

Beyonder was retconned because Jim Shooter left Marvel, and it was stab/cheap shot at him by the new Editor in Chief and other writers, and Beyonder was too damn powerful.


Beyonder was second to TOAA, and remind you this the same Beyonder that depowered himself to fit in the Marvel Omniverse, the Marvel Omniverse couldn't contain him if he was at full powered.


Classic Beyonder was greater than Anti Monitor, and this the same Monitor that put a full powered Spectre in a coma state.

Classic Beyonder had no equal in the Marvel universe beside Molecule Man and he was above LT, Beyonder is the reason we still read Hulk comics.

the Darkone
Originally posted by Cogito
Nobody's arguing for the Spectre here...


Because DC have f**ked him up like they did Darkseid, and plus he is too inconsistant. After COIE and Hal Jordan Spectre he was never the same.

Waffleman22
All of the times that the Spectre has been "beaten" by 5D Imps is because he was
A.) Depowered
B.) Not poiant to the story
C.) Host was not working oout
D.) PIS

JakeTheBank
Or 5D imps are that powerful.

Cogito
Originally posted by the Darkone
Because DC have f**ked him up like they did Darkseid, and plus he is too inconsistant. After COIE and Hal Jordan Spectre he was never the same. thumb up

Originally posted by Waffleman22
All of the times that the Spectre has been "beaten" by 5D Imps is because he was
A.) Depowered
B.) Not poiant to the story
C.) Host was not working oout
D.) PIS Ummm, no.

The only time the Spectre has really been portrayed as a true top dog in Post-Crisis DC (i.e. even within the top 10) was in the DC/Marvel crossover with the brothers. Of the top of my head I can list a couple dozen characters that are/have been more powerful.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Or 5D imps are that powerful. thumb up

Waffleman22
Man, this page is getting a LOT of traffic. Thanks to everyone for posting.

A.) Yeah they didnt get rid of the Beyonder because he was an overpowererd, annoying, whiny (Super-Boy Prime whiny) and completely bland character, it was because Marvel guys are a-holes -_-

B.) Im not denying that 5D Imps are packing a CRAP ton of Magical power, but even you mentioned Day of Vengeance where he removed all the Magic from the 5D Dimension and made Mxyzptlk virtually useless. THATS an impressive feat.

C.) Im on a site (no offense) with a lot of marvel fanboys. People who are so stubborn they pull things out of their ass just to prove a point (...which im kinda doing but im trying to be fair) I mean there could be a Frog in DC and a Frog in MARVEL that are the same size, strength, and speed. They are virtually clones, and MARVEL fans would say the MARVEL frog would win why "because the gravitational fields of Earth 616 are more powerful than that of the DC Earth and blah blah technobabble blah" When really it comes down to "The frogs from Marvel and EVERYTHING FROM MARVEL IS BETTER THAN DC... **** DC" Need i remind everyone of the joyous crossover of Marvel vs. DC where Spiderman beat Superboy... That totally wasnt biased at ALL. (Disclaimer: I do not think you specifically are a Marvel fan and i dont think that makes me right or makes me the better debater, it just sometimes these people dont do their research, plz just realize im just having fun with this)

Waffleman22
Originally posted by the Darkone
Beyonder was retconned because Jim Shooter left Marvel, and it was stab/cheap shot at him by the new Editor in Chief and other writers, and Beyonder was too damn powerful.


Beyonder was second to TOAA, and remind you this the same Beyonder that depowered himself to fit in the Marvel Omniverse, the Marvel Omniverse couldn't contain him if he was at full powered.


Classic Beyonder was greater than Anti Monitor, and this the same Monitor that put a full powered Spectre in a coma state.

Classic Beyonder had no equal in the Marvel universe beside Molecule Man and he was above LT, Beyonder is the reason we still read Hulk comics.

Noone cares about the Beyonder, except on battle forums were Marvel fans can wank their character cocks in the direction of other fans (mainly DC fans) and gloat. Doesnt excuse the fact he was Bland and Overpowered. And never shut the hell up about how he though we were "Insects" to him.

At least Mxyzptlk is funny and Living Tribunal is epic. Oh and TOAA is Jack Kirby... That is a degree of awesome no character in any fictional medium can EVER hope to achieve... Not even Chuck Norris riding on a Great White Shark through a Tornado.

Waffleman22
D.) Yes i can think of a few characters in DC that are more powerful nowadays than Spectre
Superman Prime One Million
Presence
Mandraak
Cosmic Armor Superman
WF Mxy
WF Batmite
Zatanna (possibly)
and others

But again i am stating that Spectre at FULL potential could give Living Tribunal a really good fight.

Unles you think that TOAA is more powerful than the Presence? (3...2...1)

zopzop
LT.

Cogito
Spectre never depowered the 5th dimension or Mxy in DoV.

Waffleman22
I distinctively remember that the affects of the depowering of magic after Day of Vengeance left Mxy virtually powerless and without memory of how to get back to the 5th Dimension. It was in Superman story that i believe happend in later Superman/Batman stories. I even remember that Mxyzptlk has become so indifferent he could be sorta killed by a Kryptonite spear to the chest until Spectre restored Magic and he became his normal impish self

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by Waffleman22
C.) Im on a site (no offense) with a lot of marvel fanboys. People who are so stubborn they pull things out of their ass just to prove a point (...which im kinda doing but im trying to be fair) I mean there could be a Frog in DC and a Frog in MARVEL that are the same size, strength, and speed. They are virtually clones, and MARVEL fans would say the MARVEL frog would win why "because the gravitational fields of Earth 616 are more powerful than that of the DC Earth and blah blah technobabble blah" When really it comes down to "The frogs from Marvel and EVERYTHING FROM MARVEL IS BETTER THAN DC... **** DC" Need i remind everyone of the joyous crossover of Marvel vs. DC where Spiderman beat Superboy... That totally wasnt biased at ALL. (Disclaimer: I do not think you specifically are a Marvel fan and i dont think that makes me right or makes me the better debater, it just sometimes these people dont do their research, plz just realize im just having fun with this)

I trust you haven't seen some of the Superman fanboys flying around here, I take it? wink

KMC is actually pretty even across the board when it comes to fanboys and trolls and haters of all affiliations. Some Hulk fans think he's beyond the means of top tiers to defeat, let alone hurt. Some Superman fans think he can solo the equivilent of 100,000 Hulks with power to rival 1/4 of the Big Bang.

Stick around long enough, and you'll find bias and stupidity from both sides.

Waffleman22
Well... im kind of a Superman Fanboy myself (and i do think he can beat the crap of the Hulk with no effort) and he did
But i do admit he has his limits (Pre-Crisis or Post Crisis) and he isnt gonna "Take the LT or Beyonder out back and rape them" because thats complete bullshit and fan wankery. But i think that Marvel and DC fans are Far FARRRRR worse when it comes to abstracts.

CortSether
Since when was LT retconned?

Waffleman22
I was mearly stating that after Secret Wars 2 he was given more additional powers and became the Second most powerful character in Marvel again.

ColossusGrundy
Spectre stomps after a decent fight. he always seems to pull something out of his .......... hood.

Fight begins interesting and then turns to a stomp

psycho gundam
http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/fluteofsummoningmaster.png

Harbinger
laughing out loud

psycho gundam
i made it too quickly and didn't notice the mistakes. could make a new one but...nah

JakeTheBank
laughing out loud

Someone should make new KMC trading cards for the active members here.

Sundipped
LT wins, although they were pretty much potrayed as equals in that crossover.

Waffleman22
Now while i do admit that a Normal Spectre gets easily handeled

A Hyothetical Full Powered Spectre would give a really good fight

Remember im talking about FULL POWERED Spectre. Not weak Hal Jordan Spectre

psycho gundam
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
laughing out loud

Someone should make new KMC trading cards for the active members here. here's a template for a card when you need gladiator back-up

http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/random%20shit/carver.jpg

Waffleman22
Man... Are we even talking about Spectre and Living Tribunal

And i mean i appreciate the traffic to the site but man is this getting off topic

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by psycho gundam
here's a template for a card when you need gladiator back-up

http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/random%20shit/carver.jpg

*right-clicked*

Waffleman22
So i guess that a heck yeah

Waffleman22
Seeing how ive had fun with this i guess ive not come with an answer

If they are both a full power, Who would win

the Darkone
LT

quanchi112
Originally posted by Waffleman22
Seeing how ive had fun with this i guess ive not come with an answer

If they are both a full power, Who would win Lt. You're high powered Spectre is a fantasy. I like my waffles with syrup.

Waffleman22
Im just asking for people to have an Imagination.. Durr

No actually im saying that if it came down to a normal Spectre getting a power boost from the Presence. Who would win?

I guess that doesnt really make sense since Full Powered Spectre doesnt technically exist. But im just saying Hypothetically

If they were of equal power, which one would be able to find a flaw in the other and exploit it to their liking.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Waffleman22
Im just asking for people to have an Imagination.. Durr

No actually im saying that if it came down to a normal Spectre getting a power boost from the Presence. Who would win?

I guess that doesnt really make sense since Full Powered Spectre doesnt technically exist. But im just saying Hypothetically

If they were of equal power, which one would be able to find a flaw in the other and exploit it to their liking. Spectre can't handle awesome power and his mind is flawed left to his own devices. Lt wins, easily.

One guy hunts murderers and wrongdoers while the other oversees to the entire multiverse, etc. It's not even close.

Waffleman22
Fair enough... I can see what you mean

Though hasnt the Spectre existed for various eons? AND wasnt he once given great power by the Presence and forced to fight the GEB (a creature slightly below the Presence in power) and stalemated him for a long while. He seems to have gotten used to that power pretty quickly.

Though against the LT... it may be his folly seeing how LT is also backed by the TOAA (which is weird in hindsight seeing how The Presence and the TOAA could be the same being but... whatever)

Waffleman22
And i wouldnt say that the Spectre JUST does that. Hes also the force of Vengeance for the entire DC Megaverse. In the Pre-Crisis era he even managed to fix all the damage PC Supes did when he broke the bonds of infintity causing Time and Space to collapse in on itself and... man comics are weird.

quanchi112
No, I wouldn't say any of that.

psycho gundam
Originally posted by Waffleman22
Originally posted by quanchi112
I like my waffles with syrup. sick

Waffleman22
Originally posted by quanchi112
Lt. I like my waffles with syrup.

Dude... You coming on to me?

quanchi112
Originally posted by Waffleman22
Dude... You coming on to me? Yes, I usually go after nerds on a message board which deals with fictional comic book matchups.

Waffleman22
Okay, because i just dont swing that way. Not thats theres anything wrong with it.

CortSether
This thread sucks.

Waffleman22
At least its not Goku vs Superman for the umpteeth time

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