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Prime, (classic) Strange/Fate, Onslaught, Amazo, HOTM Hulk...all of these characters have feats that place them firmly above the herald level class. There is no argument there. Yet some have (arguably) feats that reach well into the skyfather pool and therein lies my question.

What does it take for a Trans tier character to (for lack of a better word) " transcend" into the Skyfather realm? Especially when some skyfathers (Zeus for example) lack the feats that place them within their own category.

I hate to say it but nothing either they lose to a skyfather and there a high trans or they win and they are above

Granted they could stalemate but comics rarely have a true stalemate

Strange/Fate , Onslaught and/or Amazo(depending on what sort of power(s) he has duplicated) .

I think you missed my question pym. Im asking what does one have to do to earn that title? Alotta things skyfathers do %shaking dimensions with fisticuffs, casually destroying planets, making teams of heralds their bitkh) Trans characters do too, and on a more consistent basis

Ahh

I'd say transferable power and entire realms of your own creation

Originally posted by Sin I AM
I think you missed my question pym. Im asking what does one have to do to earn that title? Alotta things skyfathers do %shaking dimensions with fisticuffs, casually destroying planets, making teams of heralds their bitkh) Trans characters do too, and on a more consistent basis
When have trans characters casually busted galaxies or shaken dimensions in their fisticuffs ?

Thanos could be a very likely contender , what with his never ending upgrades by Mistress Death everytime he is revived by her . Not to mention he managed to briefly hold his own against one of Marvel's elite skyfathers , that too in the latter's own realm . Strange that you didn't include him in this thread , Sin .

Originally posted by pym-ftw
Ahh

I'd say transferable power and entire realms of your own creation

Or grow a kick-ass beard.

Yeah, like future Pym

Originally posted by Scoobless
Or grow a kick-ass beard.
Its established . The Maestro is a legit skyfather now .

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
When have trans characters casually busted galaxies or shaken dimensions in their fisticuffs ?

Not busted shook, and Thanos goes without saying

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Not busted shook, and Thanos goes without saying
I don't really recall trans level characters shaking dimensions in their battle though . A reference or two would be nice .

Versatility is the main key for reaching skyfather levels. If you don't have it, you don't belong. You can be as powerful as you want physical, if you are not versatile enough to contend with a true skyfather, your chances are gone. You can have the power but you also need the versatility. Example...Umar is a true high end skyfather. She admitted on panel TWICE that she didn't have the power to defeat the Mindless ones. Not only did Hulk defeat them at WWH levels...when going into full, blown, WBH mode, he killed the Mindless Ones with a back lash of a single punch. That wasn't just it. He killed 2 physical high Herald, a being that was amped enough to destroy Worlds and he destroyed a being that over powered Merged Hulk with one arm and defeated Surfer at the same time. He killed all of these beings without even touching them and being at couple of 100 ft in the air. That's not it...he took out the planet and two moons (remember, single punch, also remember, a high end skyfather admitted she couldnt take out some of these beings under her own power and Hulk killed them without even touching them).

Let's also not forget that the current/recent depictions of the Mindless ones was capable of shrugging off attacks from high Heralds like nothing. To the point that Nova himself had to flee because his power output wasn't enough to even damage them.


http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll121/kingaholu/Hulk%20feats/th_Mindlessonesnearlyindestructible-1.jpghttp://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll121/kingaholu/MindlessonesNeutron.jpg

The heat from Hulk punch killing these beings should outright be intense as hell. After all of this...I still wouldn't put Hulk in the skyfather tier because even though he is a physical monster, he is missing a lot of things. I wouldn't put Amazo either or Strange.

Originally posted by carver9
Versatility is the main key for reaching skyfather levels. If you don't have it, you don't belong. You can be as powerful as you want physical, if you are not versatile enough to contend with a true skyfather, your chances are gone. You can have the power but you also need the versatility. Example...Umar is a true high end skyfather. She admitted on panel TWICE that she didn't have the power to defeat the Mindless ones. Not only did Hulk defeat them at WWH levels...when going into full, blown, WBH mode, he killed the Mindless Ones with a back lash of a single punch. That wasn't just it. He killed 2 physical high Herald, a being that was amped enough to destroy Worlds and he destroyed a being that over powered Merged Hulk with one arm and defeated Surfer at the same time. He killed all of these beings without even touching them and being at couple of 100 ft in the air. That's not it...he took out the planet and two moons (remember, single punch, also remember, a high end skyfather admitted she couldnt take out some of these beings under her own power and Hulk killed them without even touching them).

Let's also not forget that the current/recent depictions of the Mindless ones was capable of shrugging off attacks from high Heralds like nothing. To the point that Nova himself had to flee because his power output wasn't enough to even damage them.

http://m287.photobucket.com/albumview/albums/kingaholu/Hulk%20feats/Mindlessonesnearlyindestructible-1.jpg.html?src=www&action=view&current=Mindlessonesnearlyindestructible-1.jpg? pbauth=1_uLEBonVPfaLdh1h3YMYz2ZgvrJGpci%2Flw4dNfyn
y7pOl7p%2FscAJPVCM7WoQn58cTMIBJps0G3bPrrSc%2FmuQaf
iUA5mP1sPUoO7pVcbaLs2jTjO9PQVL7oDv%2FQZ%2B7yqIrI%2
Bgk36ROXlMDjYj6LDgQwhKj367cpIfAgxf5l0E%2F3yw%3D

They were also capable of walking in neutron stars without even feeling it.

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll121/kingaholu/MindlessonesNeutron.jpg

The heat from Hulk punch killing these beings should outright be intense as hell. After all of this...I still wouldn't put Hulk in the skyfather tier because even though he is a physical monster, he is missing a lot of things. I wouldn't put Amazo either or Strange.
What feats of Umar suggest that she's a high-end skyfather ?

Edit : You should have used Dormammu instead . Now HE on the other hand , is an established high-level skyfather entity .

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
What feats of Umar suggest that she's a high-end skyfather ?

Edit : You should have used Dormammu instead . Now HE on the other hand , is an established high-level skyfather entity .

Dormammu is currently powerless and Umar is walking around with his power along with having control of the Dark Dimension. It was even stated on panel that he is powerless when he fought the Avengers last month (or the month before, cant remember but he is weakened because Umar has his power.)She also aided in stomping eternity and she has matched Dormammu in an extended fight IIRC.

Originally posted by carver9
Dormammu is currently powerless and Umar is walking around with his power along with having control of the Dark Dimension. It was even stated on panel that he is powerless when he fought the Avengers last month (or the month before, cant remember but he is weakened because Umar has his power.)She also aided in stomping eternity and she has matched Dormammu in an extended fight IIRC.
They didn't stomp Eternity , they took advantage of a shift in the cosmic axis , and even then it was Dorms who went in and actually did the hard work(Umar was freaked out by the cosmic "ick" from Eternity's body) and got the power(Umar only waited it out like a scavenger , and stole Eternity's power from Dorms once the moment was right) .

Classic Dorms was able to stalemate an Eternity M-Body under his own power , a feat which is beyond most skyfathers .

What extended fight ?

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Prime, (classic) Strange/Fate, Onslaught, Amazo, HOTM Hulk...all of these characters have feats that place them firmly above the herald level class. There is no argument there. Yet some have (arguably) feats that reach well into the skyfather pool and therein lies my question.

What does it take for a Trans tier character to (for lack of a better word) " transcend" into the Skyfather realm? Especially when some skyfathers (Zeus for example) lack the feats that place them within their own category.

The only logical answer to your question would be that the trans level characters in question would have to produce feats beyond their tier consistently. Zeus has been declared equal to Odin according to Dormammau.

Originally posted by Sundipped
The only logical answer to your question would be that the trans level characters in question would have to produce feats beyond their tier consistently. Zeus has been declared equal to Odin according to Dormammau.

Declared equal and having feats to support this claim aren't one and the same

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Declared equal and having feats to support this claim aren't one and the same
In Zeus' defense, when he and Odin were "debating", ie going at it inside the Council of Godheads headquarters, Zeus didn't back down. It looked like an even one on one till the others stepped in and stopped it by siding with Odin.

I know the scene your talking about, I think mephisto was retelling the story, and I get what was implied but still.....no feats

It actually showed a scene of Zeus and Odin clashing.

Originally posted by carver9
It actually showed a scene of Zeus and Odin clashing.

No it did not

I think you need a combination of powerset and consistent feats against skyfather level and above characters to be bumped up. Prime has the feats (Monarch battle, flying through AM's chest, wrecking entire groups of heralds without trying, etc.), but not the powerset (although I think most would place a rough Prime analogue in SA Supes in the skyfather tier). HOTM Hulk has much the same problem, albeit magnified given that it's solely his strength that would place him in that tier. I'd actually argue that Classic Strange and PC Dr. Fate are skyfathers given the totality of their feats. Not sure about Onslaught.

PC Fate is easily beyond a skyfather. There are skyfathers, and then there are people who have the power level to compete with skyfathers. With his magical immunity, Prime would be a nightmare for many skyfathers, but I wouldn't call him a skyfather.

The problem with all of those guys are their lack of power and versatility. Some are even lacking in the durability department, which is what knocks them right back down several tiers below the Sky Father level. Thanos is a high trans, because although he has versatility, and power, he hits a wall in terms of the scope of his powers. A true Sky Father would have been able to toss Tyrant about or stand on equal footing with him. Dr. Strange of classic showings had loads of power, but his durability was that of a human when he wasn't amplifying his base stats.

Superman Prime has all of the strength, speed, and power to be a Sky Father, but he lacks certain exotic abilities that transcend the physical to be considered anything other than a Trans level.

The Hulk at higher levels has the strength, and durability of a Trans level, but could never break out of that tier due to his inability to transcend the physical. However he does fill up the Trans level glass when it comes to kicking butt.

The Flash has me stumped, because I've always wondered how powerful a Speed Force user could become. I'm willing to bet that at really high levels that one of these guys would reach right up into the Sky Father tier. KC Flash is a good example IMO.

We all know what Thor's destiny is, and we've already seen him fill bigger shoes than Odin's.

Mordru at his best IMO is an Elite Sky Father, but he's all over the place, so he gets the Trans label on average.

To somewhat answer the OP, you really have to be of special stock to be considered a Sky Father.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
No it did not
Actually it did , but as you yourself said , since it was Mephisto's recollection(which even he acquired from a second-hand source) , it may not be very reliable .

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
PC Fate is easily beyond a skyfather. There are skyfathers, and then there are people who have the power level to compete with skyfathers. With his magical immunity, Prime would be a nightmare for many skyfathers, but I wouldn't call him a skyfather.
LOL.....I would call him loads of trouble/annoyance for a skyfather like Odin , but definitely not a nightmare .

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
LOL.....I would call him loads of trouble/annoyance for a skyfather like Odin , but definitely not a nightmare .

First thing you missed was I said "many skyfathers", not "skyfathers like Odin." Secondly, characters like Umar or other lesser skyfathers would have trouble with a guy who can move as fast as him, are as strong and can tank universe-busting blasts (who was the last skyfather who destroyed a universe?) and is immune to magic (Mordru?). So yeah, he would be a problem for characters whose main attacks are mystical.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
First thing you missed was I said "many skyfathers", not "skyfathers like Odin." Secondly, characters like Umar or other lesser skyfathers would have trouble with a guy who can move as fast as him, are as strong and can tank universe-busting blasts (who was the last skyfather who destroyed a universe?) and is immune to magic (Mordru?). So yeah, he would be a problem for characters whose main attacks are mystical.
Odin is part of many skyfathers . Umar doesn't have any feats to put her at skyfather-level , not any that I recall anyways .King Thor(empowered by the Odinpower) , upon going all out , was able to kill a being who was not only immune to godly energies but was capable of redirecting said energies against his opponents .

Problem yes , nightmare no .

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Actually it did , but as you yourself said , since it was Mephisto's recollection(which even he acquired from a second-hand source) , it may not be very reliable .


There was no depiction of them coming to blows, more like they were peacocking

gaining the IG, HOTU, and becoming captain universe, to name a few..

Originally posted by Sin I AM
There was no depiction of them coming to blows, more like they were peacocking He did say "when skyfathers rumble the earth shakes beneath him"

So if they were in another dimension and the earth shook by there power then it had to be a scuffle at least

By the way, the statement that zeus=Odin =Dormammu has been stated countless times , countless times.
Dormmamu , Krovac and even odin himself has said zeus was equal to them in power, not to mention even pak and gillen says it in there forumspring.
Iirc even thanos said something of the sort in marvel the end

Originally posted by Sin I AM
There was no depiction of them coming to blows, more like they were peacocking
Peacocking ?
Anyways , this is the scene the entire controversy is about :
http://oi53.tinypic.com/1z2ps1y.jpg
If you still claim that that is NOT a depiction of them coming to blows , then you have serious illustrative-comprehension issues .

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Peacocking ?
Anyways , this is the scene the entire controversy is about :
http://oi53.tinypic.com/1z2ps1y.jpg
If you still claim that that is NOT a depiction of them coming to blows , then you have serious illustrative-comprehension issues .

I see displays of power, please enlighten me where a blow is struck

Originally posted by Sin I AM
I see displays of power, please enlighten me where a blow is struck
facepalm
Definition of the phrase "come to blows" :
http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/come+to+blows
1.to reach the point of fighting about someone or something.
2.to have a fight or a serious argument with someone
3.to have a fight or a serious argument

List some low end skyfathers

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
facepalm
Definition of the phrase "come to blows" :
http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/come+to+blows
1.to reach the point of fighting about someone or something.
2.to have a fight or a serious argument with someone
3.to have a fight or a serious argument

U can troll and facepalm all u want your STILL wrong, no blow was struck.

Originally posted by carver9
Versatility is the main key for reaching skyfather levels. If you don't have it, you don't belong. You can be as powerful as you want physical, if you are not versatile enough to contend with a true skyfather, your chances are gone. You can have the power but you also need the versatility. Example...Umar is a true high end skyfather. She admitted on panel TWICE that she didn't have the power to defeat the Mindless ones. Not only did Hulk defeat them at WWH levels...when going into full, blown, WBH mode, he killed the Mindless Ones with a back lash of a single punch. That wasn't just it. He killed 2 physical high Herald, a being that was amped enough to destroy Worlds and he destroyed a being that over powered Merged Hulk with one arm and defeated Surfer at the same time. He killed all of these beings without even touching them and being at couple of 100 ft in the air. That's not it...he took out the planet and two moons (remember, single punch, also remember, a high end skyfather admitted she couldnt take out some of these beings under her own power and Hulk killed them without even touching them).

Let's also not forget that the current/recent depictions of the Mindless ones was capable of shrugging off attacks from high Heralds like nothing. To the point that Nova himself had to flee because his power output wasn't enough to even damage them.


http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll121/kingaholu/Hulk%20feats/th_Mindlessonesnearlyindestructible-1.jpghttp://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll121/kingaholu/MindlessonesNeutron.jpg

The heat from Hulk punch killing these beings should outright be intense as hell. After all of this...I still wouldn't put Hulk in the skyfather tier because even though he is a physical monster, he is missing a lot of things. I wouldn't put Amazo either or Strange.


http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/1807/30435510151392280794746.jpg

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
facepalm
Definition of the phrase "come to blows" :
http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/come+to+blows
1.to reach the point of fighting about someone or something.
2.to have a fight or a serious argument with someone
3.to have a fight or a serious argument
They didn't actually fight we didn't see it plus fighting in that specific area is against the rules

Zeus physically destroyed the Hulk so he gets an automatic pass when it comes to feats.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Peacocking ?
Anyways , this is the scene the entire controversy is about :
http://oi53.tinypic.com/1z2ps1y.jpg
If you still claim that that is NOT a depiction of them coming to blows , then you have serious illustrative-comprehension issues .

In defense of this pic.I would say that Zeus manned up against Odin in this scene.No one can argue that Odin seemed to have defined what skyfathers should be capable of.But when a character that is a head of a pantheon is shown manning up to Odin, then at least you can make the conclussion that Zeus is = to Odin.

And here's a scan of Dormammu saying he is equal to the likes of Zeus and Odin.

http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/igniz5/The%20Dread%20Dormammu/DormammuTheEqualOfOdinOrZeus.jpg

Where are the scans of Dormammu toying with the Hulk?

Originally posted by dmills
Where are the scans of Dormammu toying with the Hulk?

You mean this?

http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/igniz5/The%20Dread%20Dormammu/DormammuTurnedHulkintoStone.jpg

Dormammu was amped when he did that.

Originally posted by carver9
Dormammu was amped when he did that.

Even if Dormammu wasn't, he'll still give Hulk a manhandling.Maybe even worse than what Zeus did to him.Not that I'm implying Dormammu is more powerful than Zeus.Its just that Dormammu is a lot more merciless than Zeus

Originally posted by Igniz
Even if Dormammu wasn't, he'll still give Hulk a manhandling.Maybe even worse than what Zeus did to him.Not that I'm implying Dormammu is more powerful than Zeus.Its just that Dormammu is a lot more merciless than Zeus


I agree, Dorm would work Hulk but IIRC, Dormammu was amped off of Eternity powers when he did that. What's amazing is, Umar was able to override that power and revert Hulk back to his normal self (I think that is what happened). Did she have a portion of eternity powers as well? Can't remember.

Why argue the point then?

Originally posted by -Pr-
Why argue the point then?

I just wanted to point out that Dormammu was amped during that scene since too many people aren't as knowledged as I am when it comes to small things like that.



Even though I think Hulk is powerful, I knwo who he can and can't beat.

Makes no sense. Any of it.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Makes no sense. Any of it.



Why didn't it? I wanted to point out that Dorm was amped because under normal conditions, he wouldn't be able to turn Hulk into stone. He was amped by a universal power which was the reason why he was able to accomplish that ft.

I also said that without this amp, he could beat Hulk but "not" by turning him to stone.

Originally posted by carver9


Why didn't it? I wanted to point out that Dorm was amped because under normal conditions, he wouldn't be able to turn Hulk into stone. He was amped by a universal power which was the reason why he was able to accomplish that ft.

I also said that without this amp, he could beat Hulk but "not" by turning him to stone.

Why not?

Originally posted by -Pr-
Why not?

Because of Hulk resistance to transmutation or anything similar to this.

Originally posted by carver9
Because of Hulk resistance to transmutation or anything similar to this.

If you say so.

You two are like the odd couple.

Originally posted by iceman24567
They didn't actually fight we didn't see it plus fighting in that specific area is against the rules
The point was whether or not there was a depiction in the comic of them "coming to blows" . I already admitted the scene maybe suspect since it comes from Mephisto's recollection , but the scan itself clearly depicts the two going at it .

Them trying to violate LT's decree has nothing to do with what was depicted in that scan .

Originally posted by Sin I AM
U can troll and facepalm all u want your STILL wrong, no blow was struck.
Concession accepted .