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I was having a discussion Last night with a friend. Thought id get some thought on the forums.

I was saying due to the fact that many of the Logia and Paramecium Fruit uses have such powerful abilities, even the fourth Hokage couldn't match them. Like someone such as Kizaru wouldn't even get touched by the fourth due to his intangibility and the fact that he can move at the speed of light.

My Friend thinks due to his intelligence, Teleportation abilities, and speed alone would be enough for Minato.

So the question is Would he be match any of the Top Level OP characters? Or would he fall short?

No BFR possible so he'd fall short. There is literally nothing he can do to the Logia users and non-logias are much too fast, strong, etc.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
No BFR possible so he'd fall short. There is literally nothing he can do to the Logia users and non-logias are much too fast, strong, etc.
Those were my thoughts. What they said was that him being able to throw almost limitless teleportation shuriken and his lighting fast reflexes would give him an edge aginst the non logia users. I just could't convince them otherwise, lol.

On another note i forgot some of the legendary Zoan fruit uses like Sengoku and Marko. Would he even be able to damage a giant golden Buddha? lol

He could beat Sengoku because Sengoku is made of fail.

^Only half kidding.

I personally did expect more from one of his punches, but its a good damage soak feat for Luffy i guess. seeing as how MR. 3, and Portgas werent all that damaged from it either.

I reckon he could beat, say, Law. But logias are a cut above him.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I reckon he could beat, say, Law. But logias are a cut above him.

Now in the case of ace being killed by magma, could Minato pottentially use a counter element to a logia? Say earth against Eneru?

I suppose he could. But he can't. Minato lacks any elements iirc.

Yeah i dont think he can use earth it was just the first thing i thought of, lol.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
No BFR possible so he'd fall short. There is literally nothing he can do to the Logia users and non-logias are much too fast, strong, etc.

Fast? Pretty sure he's faster than they are.

I wonder if Rasengan would affect logia akin to a haki attack.

---

What i was saying to my friend was that since OP is a Seperate universe from Naruto entirely, the chakra that the rasengan attacks wouldnt exist in anyone from the OP universe. Aside from it being so powerful that it broke through the armament haki, i dont think it would affect them the same way.

Originally posted by omgchos
What i was saying to my friend was that since OP is a Seperate universe from Naruto entirely, the chakra that the rasengan attacks wouldnt exist in anyone from the OP universe. Aside from it being so powerful that it broke through the armament haki, i dont think it would affect them the same way.

Rasengan doesn't attack chakra. It attacks things, using chakra.

Also, it uses chakra to keep a certain shape, a lot like what Haki does.

Originally posted by Q99
Fast? Pretty sure he's faster than they are. Based on?

Originally posted by Nephthys
I reckon he could beat, say, Law. But logias are a cut above him.

Law's ability neuters teleporting shuriken pretty hard though.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Based on?

Based on... Naruto generally having better speed feats over any significant distance, and Minato in particular having crazy speed?

Originally posted by Q99
Based on... Naruto generally having better speed feats over any significant distance, and Minato in particular having crazy speed?

Proof?

Originally posted by Bentley
Proof?

I think Q99 is going to use the outskirts battledome stuff which I have shown to be very problematic.

The one definitive speed feat I calculated for Guy (because it was based on the gravitational constant at sea-level...which doesn't get much more accurate for speed feat calculations) shows Guy to not be anywhere near sonic or supersonic like OBD has "come up" with. Granted, that was Guy before any gates.

Originally posted by Bentley
Proof?


Kisame and Gai both, in short order, crossing a larger distance than all of Marineform or Thriller Bark, both of which took the crew significant time to cover. Pain and Naruto doing the same when Naruto chased him out of Konoha (Pain being able to use a km+ radius move and it wasn't even in sight of Konoha any more).




Nope, much more general, obvious stuff than that.


Characters in One Piece spend significant amount of time traveling distances Naruto characters travel much, much faster.

And in terms of short distance burst-speed, the stuff that the high-end Naruto characters are at least as impressive as the speed techniques like soru or gear.



Conversely- what proof is there of One Piece having higher? It seems to be just assumed, but I don't think there's much to back it up. One Piece does have higher strength, and I believe people just made the leap to assuming higher general stats.

No, it's because OP characters have much greater speed in battle.

Originally posted by Nephthys
No, it's because OP characters have much greater speed in battle.

*Shrugs* Not to my eyes. If you can back it up, fine, but about the only speed area they look to be better in is how rapidly they attack.

The high-level speed rushes of Naruto stand up to any non-turn to light/lightning speed move in OP, and Minato's teleportation is as good as those (and arguably is quicker to trigger).

Minato could beat logia with reaper death seal but it would kill him...

Originally posted by Rikudo sennin
Minato could beat logia with reaper death seal but it would kill him...

If the Logia just stands there and let Minato use it, sure...

Unless you mean a fodder Logia like Caribou!

Originally posted by Q99
Conversely- what proof is there of One Piece having higher? It seems to be just assumed, but I don't think there's much to back it up. One Piece does have higher strength, and I believe people just made the leap to assuming higher general stats. Or it could be the fact that Luffy has been intercepting bullets by traveling hundreds of meters (While the bullets traveled ten) since the first chapters, the multiple instances of bullet and cannonball timing, Hodi's water bullets being double digit hypersonic and slow by Luffy's standards, etc.

Originally posted by Bentley
If the Logia just stands there and let Minato use it, sure...

Unless you mean a fodder Logia like Caribou!

http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/504/5

1.It is invisible so they won't see it coming
2.It can do long distance

Originally posted by NemeBro
Or it could be the fact that Luffy has been intercepting bullets by traveling hundreds of meters (While the bullets traveled ten) since the first chapters, the multiple instances of bullet and cannonball timing, Hodi's water bullets being double digit hypersonic and slow by Luffy's standards, etc.

To be fair, the narutoverse doesn't have bullets and cannonballs to dodge. lol

Also, aren't these bullets and cannonballs slower than modern weapons? This is pirate era tech as far as guns and cannons are concerned right? It's still fast, but I don't think it is outside of the realm of what naruto characters were capable of early on as well. If you want to take databooks seriously, then wasn't Sasuke nearly tracking and dodging lightspeed movements early in the manga? lol

Originally posted by socool8520
To be fair, the narutoverse doesn't have bullets and cannonballs to dodge. lol

Also, aren't these bullets and cannonballs slower than modern weapons? This is pirate era tech as far as guns and cannons are concerned right? It's still fast, but I don't think it is outside of the realm of what naruto characters were capable of early on as well. If you want to take databooks seriously, then wasn't Sasuke nearly tracking and dodging lightspeed movements early in the manga? lol
Considering they have airships and 15 foot cyborgs who shoot lasers I dont think you have a leg to stand on

^ What does that have to do with ship cannons? Or regular guns?

Originally posted by socool8520
To be fair, the narutoverse doesn't have bullets and cannonballs to dodge. lol

Also, aren't these bullets and cannonballs slower than modern weapons? This is pirate era tech as far as guns and cannons are concerned right? It's still fast, but I don't think it is outside of the realm of what naruto characters were capable of early on as well. If you want to take databooks seriously, then wasn't Sasuke nearly tracking and dodging lightspeed movements early in the manga? lol Indeed, probably because by Kishi's own words, guns would be a gamebreaker for most ninja.

It depends on the bullet and cannon.

Van Auger's bullets certainly aren't.

Also, lasers.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Indeed, probably because by Kishi's own words, guns would be a gamebreaker for most ninja.


Or maybe because they are ninjas and don't use guns

I really think Naruto characters have shown similar speed feats to Naruto characters. Luffy dodges lasers, Sasuke dodged some of Haku's near light speed movements. Luffy's pistol barrage is similar to Gai's 1000 peacock attack.


Even if one universe has faster characters overall, I don't see the difference being large enough that the latter universe couldn't keep pace or even perform well.

Originally posted by socool8520
Sasuke dodged some of Haku's near light speed movements The moment you actually cited this as a legitimate example was the moment any semblance of credibility you might have had was lost.

Get on my level or get out.

Originally posted by Rikudo sennin
http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/504/5

1.It is invisible so they won't see it coming
2.It can do long distance


I actually meant that Minato could get speedblitzed by some... But I like this tech so I'm not going to argue against it, I should use it everytime someone posts a DBZ vs Naruto thread

^ But assuming Luffy dodged a laser and not the person using it is legit?

Regardless, Haku states that he uses the reflection of the mirrors to pass through a given mirror, and I was under the impression that light refracting off the mirror/ice is pretty close to light speed. Sure, maybe the needles were a bit slower, but extremely fast tech nonetheless.

You citing lasers, lasers, lasers, gets tired pretty quick as well

Originally posted by socool8520
^ But assuming Luffy dodged a laser and not the person using it is legit?

Considering he referred to the laser as slow, yes.

Also, I don't actually subscribe to that particular laser being lightspeed, ftr. It's been calced at mach 15.



He states he uses the reflection to travel from mirror to mirror.

I'll note that Guy's Afternoon Tiger, referred to as a supersonic attack, is the greatest showing of speed in the series.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Considering he referred to the laser as slow, yes.

Also, I don't actually subscribe to that particular laser being lightspeed, ftr. It's been calced at mach 15.

Ehhh....I had taken it as the person in general, not the actual laser but okay.



He states he uses the reflection to travel from mirror to mirror.

I'll note that Guy's Afternoon Tiger, referred to as a supersonic attack, is the greatest showing of speed in the series.

Isn't that what I said? His reflections traveling from mirror to mirror is still caused by light passing through the mirror. Granted, the speed decreases, but I was under the impression it was still around 2/3 light speed. I'm not saying it's light speed, but it is pretty f'in fast.

Wasn't there a calc of the pain fight that showed like mach 13 or something? and that was awhile ago in the series. Naruto is faster than that now. Minato would be also.

Originally posted by Bentley
I actually meant that Minato could get speedblitzed by some... But I like this tech so I'm not going to argue against it, I should use it everytime someone posts a DBZ vs Naruto thread

Minato himself is fast and if he had to do the hand seals in close combat he could erect a space time barrier to protect himself while he does it. He could beat most logia's.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Considering he referred to the laser as slow, yes.

Also, I don't actually subscribe to that particular laser being lightspeed, ftr. It's been calced at mach 15.



He states he uses the reflection to travel from mirror to mirror.

I'll note that Guy's Afternoon Tiger, referred to as a supersonic attack, is the greatest showing of speed in the series.

Um no the frs calc surpassed any calc for gai and now that we have people in the series reacting or dodging that with ease we have double digit mach characters. The fact you tell others that naruto characters are at best supersonic despite there being threads I have shown with calcs showing otherwise is simply astounding.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Or it could be the fact that Luffy has been intercepting bullets by traveling hundreds of meters (While the bullets traveled ten) since the first chapters, the multiple instances of bullet and cannonball timing, Hodi's water bullets being double digit hypersonic and slow by Luffy's standards, etc.


The bullets, being flintlock, are likely slower than that, and heck, seem slower than Usopp's slingshot. We've seen projectiles visibly move quite slowly (the normal marines were able to notice and react to the cannonballs fired by Capoine before they hit).


And, oh yea, Naruto characters still move longer distances in shorter periods of time, regularly, and we see OP characters try and travel distances and take awhile to do so repeatedly. Most of the fast OP stuff is just burst speed, and you might say, 'well, ok, Naruto has better sustained speed but OP has the option of burst,' but Naruto has very fast bursts too that travel much, much faster than the distance travel that covers kilometers over short times.


And I will note, a lot of people are trying to scale off of projectile speeds, a mach 15 laser and all that. Well, to that, let me point out how in baseball, a 45mph pitch is really slow and easy to hit to a pro, but it's still way faster than they can go. Finding a projectile slow doesn't mean you're faster than it, or even remotely as fast, just that, at it's speed, you can react to it.

You can be 1/10th the speed of something and still react to it just fine.

OP deals with high speed projectiles pretty often, but Naruto has the better speed feats.

Question: Are things like Flash Step and Body Flicker actual uses of speed or are they just teleports? Because your have Shunsui travelling long distances is a single step indicating its more the latter to me.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Question: Are things like Flash Step and Body Flicker actual uses of speed or are they just teleports? Because your have Shunsui travelling long distances is a single step indicating its more the latter to me.

Speed.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Question: Are things like Flash Step and Body Flicker actual uses of speed or are they just teleports? Because your have Shunsui travelling long distances is a single step indicating its more the latter to me.

They're burst speed, with the exception of Minato's flying thunder god move which is teleportation (that he has in *addition* to crazy high burst speed).

Originally posted by Nephthys
Question: Are things like Flash Step and Body Flicker actual uses of speed or are they just teleports? Because your have Shunsui travelling long distances is a single step indicating its more the latter to me.

http://powerlisting.wikia.com/wiki/Flash_Step

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
http://powerlisting.wikia.com/wiki/Flash_Step

Btw, in the manga Prince of Tennis, one character uses this to play like a doubles match entirely by himself by moving back and forth between two places so quickly!

^ That link didn't work for me.

Everyone seems to be using the fact that one piece likes to drag itself out like DBZ when it comes to getting to the plotpoint. Thats the reason it always takes them forever to run places. But were talking characters that get places as fast as they can. Like when kizaru was facerolling the straw hats. He could tleport at will to any spot he wanted as long as someone wsnt surpressing his ability with haki as Silvers did.

Bump for Minato getting a power up that puts him on high OP level characters! **** all the shit about him struggling with Logia's and whatnot. He finally will be getting feats he deserves!

Originally posted by Bentley
I actually meant that Minato could get speedblitzed by some... But I like this tech so I'm not going to argue against it, I should use it everytime someone posts a DBZ vs Naruto thread DBZ can sense energy tho so it would not be invisible to them, sorry dbz is way above the naruto universe #FACT DBZ DONT NEED TO DODGE ANY BULLETS OR LASERS HAHA AND USE THE REAPER SEAL THEY WOULD JUST BE WISHED BACK TO LIFE AND The naruto person would not- win dbz but back to your other argument

Originally posted by Rikudo sennin
Bump for Minato getting a power up that puts him on high OP level characters! **** all the shit about him struggling with Logia's and whatnot. He finally will be getting feats he deserves!

A biju cloak *should* work like armament haki, yea.

Originally posted by Q99
A biju cloak *should* work like armament haki, yea. Why?

Originally posted by Q99
The bullets, being flintlock, are likely slower than that, and heck, seem slower than Usopp's slingshot. We've seen projectiles visibly move quite slowly (the normal marines were able to notice and react to the cannonballs fired by Capoine before they hit).

You can't disparage the guns for being flintlock while in the same breath claim a slingshot fires projectiles faster.

You can have your cake, but you can't eat it too.

Scans of Capone.



How fast is "short times".

Give me a time frame.



Only pitchers usually don't pitch from twenty feet away.



Not if it is less than ten meters away.



Quantify them then.

I'll be waiting.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Why?

Because they're almost identical. If we assume even the slightest power equivalency, each involves covering oneself with energy. Spirit/physical energy, no less.



Seeming slower than a slingshot seems a great reason to disparage them, if you ask me.




Kilometers in, probably, double-digit seconds or so.


Marineford, Thriller Bark, Enes Lobby. Both involved big 'chase after an objective,' that takes significant time, and Kisame fleeing turtle island leaves 'em in the dust (or Pain fleeing 8-tails Naruto, for another example of miles covered in a short time).

Luffy climbing the vinestalk on Skypeia took a fair amount of time for him (even without the gold ball). Naruto leaps mountains casually.


It's hard to get precise numbers... but over distances, the speeds are clearly not remotely near comparable.



If one judges where the aim is going to be? Yes, one can.