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Lot of people seem to equate durability with physical strength.

You can have the qualities of durability and physical strength co-existing with each other. In most instances, however, they're really not the same. We'll explore the distinction here.

I'll periodically supply reference information for my entries and experiment with various size and format presentations.

This is a scene from Mark Waid's Legion of Super-Heroes, fifth volume, for instance, where Ultra Boy tries to impress one time-stranded Kara Zor-el, and fails miserably ...

Mini-end scene. Note that using his power to make himself strong did NOT protect Ultra Boy from being ROCKED by his opposition, as Kara pointed out in the previous panel.

Ultra-Boy is specifically a bad example to use as he can either only be super strong or invulnerable.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Ultra-Boy is specifically a bad example to use as he can either only be super strong or invulnerable.

This is an entire thread dedicated to the question, Jake.
You can be certain he won't be the only example.

I disagree that Ultra Boy would be a bad example, by the way.
Extreme examples tend to be the clearest examples, not moderate ones that feature a mix of the 2 qualities being examined.

Ultra Boy's case makes the distinction about as clear as can be.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Lot of people seem to equate durability with physical strength.

You can have the qualities of durability and physical strength co-existing with each other. In most instances, however, they're really not the same. I think what most people say is that, in order to "realistically" have/use extreme physical strength, the character's body needs to be strong enough to tolerate the tensile, compressive and other stresses imposed by deployment of that strength. Eg, you might be strong enough to military-press a building, but if your body isn't up to par, your bones will snap, ligaments will tear, and the skin (of your palms) will be crushed. (Frankly, the "one power at a time" thing noted in the scans strikes me as gimmicky.)

On the other hand, while I don't think you can have (or shouldn't, anyway) extreme strength wthout extreme durability, offhand I don't see why you couldn't have the durability w/o the strength.

Regardless, this brings up something I've wondered about: given a certain level of strength, what would be an appropriate level of durability? For example, if you can press a mountain, should you be able to withstand a nuke? Or from the other direction: if you're bulletproof, what level of strength would be proportionate?

Kara versus Titanic. Image 1. Gravimetric tractor beam toss.

In answer to your question, Mindship, I think the following level of durability would suffice for most any modern character.

The fact that our young heroine here regards feeling pain from so many tons of steel slamming into her side as an indicator that something is WRONG with her ...


Kara versus Titanic. Image 2. Impact. Gravitygun ammo...

Sort of confused as to why we're exploring the distinction. Just curious...

Originally posted by -Pr-
Sort of confused as to why we're exploring the distinction. Just curious... Curious too.

Eg, Superman can benchpress the Earth for 5 days straight with barely no sweat, not stopping to recharge. What should we expect his durability to be? What would be disappointing?

Well Superman has always been stronger than durable, but still; if he can't handle planetary impacts, that would be a bad thing.

If you don't have some kind of super durability wouldn't you rip your body apart when trying to perform a super strength feat like lifting a building?

It really should.

There are characters that are more durable than they are strong (Colossus, Aquaman), and then characters who are the other way around (Superman, Hulk).

It varies.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Well Superman has always been stronger than durable, but still; if he can't handle planetary impacts, that would be a bad thing.

Actually, the reverse seems to be the case for Superman; he's tougher than he is strong to judge from everything I've seen to date.
Same seems to be generally true of other Kryptonians.

Maybe you've seen something different; I'll be interested to see what you present.

I agree with you on Hulk, though.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Actually, the reverse seems to be the case for Superman; he's tougher than he is strong to judge from everything I've seen to date.
Same seems to be generally true of other Kryptonians.

Maybe you've seen something different; I'll be interested to see what you present.

I agree with you on Hulk, though.

Superman is very, very durable. I wouldn't argue that. But his strength feats like the infinite book, pushing warworld, the five earth press and such, say to me that he's stronger than he is durable.

If you want to argue that he's more durable, that's fine; he is insanely durable.

facepalm @using ultra boy.

if u have super strength..u gonna be super durable too..it's a package..

Originally posted by Slaanesh
if u have super strength..u gonna be super durable too..it's a package.. The reverse is also going to be true

If your muscles and tendons are as hard as steel you'll be able to exert more force.

Originally posted by Newjak
The reverse is also going to be true

If your muscles and tendons are as hard as steel you'll be able to exert more force. Okay, I'm going to be a nit-picker...

Tendons don't contract, so they don't exert any mobile force. And what makes muscles contract -- specifically, what makes muscular contraction stronger -- is 1) the number of contractile filaments in the muscle fibers, and 2) the strength of the neural signal, ie, how deeply it reaches into the muscle (and consequently how many filaments it activates).

On the other hand, many characters have been described as having extremely dense tissue, which one could translate as having a helluva lot of contractile filaments in a muscle of given size. Also, generally, the more dense something is, the harder it is to damage.

But comicological physics, being what they are, I can see extreme durability present w/o extreme strength, maybe because, eg, the molecular bonds of all body tissues are stronger (though again, these molecular bonds are not what causes muscles to contract).

Like I said, nit-picky.

Kara versus Kara. The Saga of Satangirl.

Image 1 of 3.

Kara versus Kara. The Saga of Satangirl.

Image 2 of 3.

Kara versus Kara. The Saga of Satangirl.

Image 3 of 3.

I can think of better examples for the inverse side of this argument. Ultimate Colossus for example didn't have super strength to go with his durability, so he couldn't even move his body without the aid of drugs to amp his strength.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Ultra-Boy is specifically a bad example to use as he can either only be super strong or invulnerable. saw that, then this post by you, wrote this, and clicked out of the thread.

Reference Info for entries to date:


Ultraboy. Legion of Superheroes.
("Mouth full of crumbly teeth..."

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http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14090763
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14090771

Source: Legion of Superheroes #18, Volume 5
Writer: Mark Waid
Penciller: Barry Kitson
Date: July 2006
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http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Supergirl_and_the_Legion_of_Super-Heroes_Vol_1_18



Gravimetric Gravitronic Gun. Titanic versus Maid of Steel.
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http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14090827
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14090831

Source: Superman Family #193
Writers: Gerry Conway & Scott Edelman
Penciller: Arvell Jones & Romeo Tanghal
Date: February 1979
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http://doompatrolreview.tripod.com/supermanfamily.htm
http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Superman_Family_Vol_1_193




Satangirl, Pre-Crisis. Adventure Comics #409*
(The Satangirl story is a reprint from Adventure313)
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http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14092759
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14092760
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14092762

Source: Adventure Comics #313, Volume 1*
Writer: Edmond Hamilton
Penciller: Curt Swan
Date: October 1963
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http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Adventure_Comics_Vol_1_313
http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Adventure_Comics_Vol_1_409

advanced course. karate kid's legion induction.
val amorr versus clark kent, image 1.

karate kid versus superboy. legion induction, image 2.



note the interchangeability of distinct terms.

superboy versus karate kid. legion induction adventure346.
image 3 of 3 of fight scene.

karate kid versus meteor

studies in contradiction: Val Amorr

Mohammed to mountain punch.

Invulnerability is the single one power I would ask for if I could...now that this it out of my system lol

Invulnerability would give you some level of strength. Not superman strength but more then average under conditions. If you were in a steel box with your back against one wall and the other wall was close enough to punch, something would have to give and that wouldn't be you.

Person to person you would throw stronger punches then normal also because there would be no give in your punches anymore.

Donna Troy.

Strength ...

(stopping a train)

... versus invulnerability


(Donna succumbing to a thief, hitting her with ... a lady's handbag ...)