Barsen'thor vs Count Dooku

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.



Nephthys
Force Contest only.

They fight in the Jedi Temple on Coruscant.

Nephthys
I'll just start us off. Apparently the Barsen'thor is powerful enough to rip through a blast door the size of a two-story building. I hope someone who's played the Consular story can point us in the right direction or post a video for confirmation of this because we need some good feats for TOR characters. However, that does seem a bit more powerful than anything Dooku has done, so really he'll have to rely on his Force Mastery and and intelligent use of the Force to win, if he can.

Intrepid37
Does Barsen'thor know tutaminis? Considering it's a force fight only, Dooku's potentially higher speed and lightning could help him.

Mizukage Yoda
Originally posted by Intrepid37
Does Barsen'thor know tutaminis? Considering it's a force fight only, Dooku's potentially higher speed and lightning could help him.

The only time I remember the Barsen'thor deflecting lightning it was against Darth Lachriss, and it was with his saber. Other than that several of the Emperor's children blast him with lighting. He gets up shortly after, but he is not immune to it.

S_W_LeGenD
Barsen'thor is a prodigy:-

The determined Consular launches a last-ditch assault against the First Son's hiding place. In a climatic final battle with the galaxy at stake, these two masters of the Force cross sabers. The Consular ultimately defeats the First Son and emerges victorious. Without the First Son's protection, the Children of the Emperor are revealed to the Jedi, allowing the Republic to steel itself against the Empire. Meanwhile the Consular is saluted as a hero of the order, ready for whatever challenges lie ahead. (SWTORE, Page 99)

So it is perhaps this battle which tilted the war in the favor of the Republic and the Jedi Order...

Mizukage Yoda
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Barsen'thor is a prodigy:-

The determined Consular launches a last-ditch assault against the First Son's hiding place. In a climatic final battle with the galaxy at stake, these two masters of the Force cross sabers. The Consular ultimately defeats the First Son and emerges victorious. Without the First Son's protection, the Children of the Emperor are revealed to the Jedi, allowing the Republic to steel itself against the Empire. Meanwhile the Consular is saluted as a hero of the order, ready for whatever challenges lie ahead. (SWTORE, Page 99)

So it is perhaps this battle which tilted the war in the favor of the Republic and the Jedi Order...

Uhh yes. The Children of the Emperor were perhaps the Empire's greatest tactical strength, the First son especially provided top level clearance for the Empire in terms of Republic strategy. To have a traitorous member of the Jedi Council was enough not to mention all the other spies.

Nephthys
Its worth mentioning that the Barsen'thor is another 'minor prodigy' who shows up their master days into being a padawan. Their fighting prowess is so good that they impress Qyzen Fess enough that he thinks you're an embodiment of his deity, something you master didn't do despite knowing his for years. Your master also admits that you were stronger with the Force at age 4 than she was at 15.

Nephthys
Haha, then literally 20 minutes after I wrote that I had to kick her ass.

Nephthys
Finally found this feat:

http://25.media.tumblr.com/30f33c05a03920427cccee1290d51490/tumblr_mnu9ayeG0s1rbwuv5o1_500.png

http://25.media.tumblr.com/987fe392f1ff526beec47ae6dbc1d448/tumblr_mnu9ayeG0s1rbwuv5o2_500.png

Very impressive, and looks like it didn't take much effort. I mean christ, look how thick that door is.

S_W_LeGenD
Very impressive; she will whoop Dooku's @ss.

The title of Barsen'thor is rarely earned within the Jedi Order.

Some real bad@sses came during the Old Republic era. I guess that when the agents of dark become too powerful and disturb the balance, the Force retaliates with creating incredibly powerful agents of light to restore the balance and terminate the agents of dark.

What still confuses me is that if the agents of dark are supposed to be eliminated, how come this results in balance?

Nephthys
Another cool feat. This is now my Barsen'thor feat thread:

EBcNAsB7q9I

6.35 A pretty decently huge chunk of metal, tossed like a stick. Still relatively early in the Barsen'thors career. Although it should also be mentioned that it seems that the Consular isn't especially skilled yet, as you then have the choice between saving some holocrons and a woman, indicating that they lacked the skill to lift both simultaneously.

Mizukage Yoda
Originally posted by Nephthys
Another cool feat. This is now my Barsen'thor feat thread:

EBcNAsB7q9I

6.35 A pretty decently huge chunk of metal, tossed like a stick. Still relatively early in the Barsen'thors career. Although it should also be mentioned that it seems that the Consular isn't especially skilled yet, as you then have the choice between saving some holocrons and a woman, indicating that they lacked the skill to lift both simultaneously.

The Barsen'thor is easily the greatest Jedi force user in the galaxy by the end of the arc.

Nephthys
It shows, the Hero of Tython never gets to do crazy stuff with the Force. Though they would still win in a fight between the two.

Mizukage Yoda
Originally posted by Nephthys
It shows, the Hero of Tython never gets to do crazy stuff with the Force. Though they would still win in a fight between the two.

If the Barsen'thor had some lightsaber chops I think he/she could take the HoT.

Nephthys
Even if they did the HoT has defeated opponents more powerful than the Barsen'thor. Vitiates Force Powers eclipse those of the Barsen'thors and yet the HoT was able to defend against him and kill him. Although they don't do anything particularly impressive with the Force, the HoT clearly has amazing defensive capabilities. I doubt the Barsen'thor could overwhelm them while the HoT can almost certainly beat them in a lightsaber fight.

Mizukage Yoda
Originally posted by Nephthys
Even if they did the HoT has defeated opponents more powerful than the Barsen'thor. Vitiates Force Powers eclipse those of the Barsen'thors and yet the HoT was able to defend against him and kill him. Although they don't do anything particularly impressive with the Force, the HoT clearly has amazing defensive capabilities. I doubt the Barsen'thor could overwhelm them while the HoT can almost certainly beat them in a lightsaber fight.

A severely weakened Vitiate who was also losing significant chunks of his power with the First Son and the Children.

Also I wouldn't be surprised if the First Son was the second most powerful Sith at the time sans Vitiates.

The_Tempest
Say what?

I realize that Vitiate was drawing power from his myriad of human batteries, but I assumed it was for his galaxy-buffet ritual.

Don't tell me that the guy relies on them for a fight. Makes him look like a bigger puss if that's true.

Mizukage Yoda
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Say what?

I realize that Vitiate was drawing power from his myriad of human batteries, but I assumed it was for his galaxy-buffet ritual.

Don't tell me that the guy relies on them for a fight. Makes him look like a bigger puss if that's true.

It is stated each Child of the Emperor was imbued with a part of the Emperor's power. I'm not sure what that means for a fight.

Nephthys
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
A severely weakened Vitiate who was also losing significant chunks of his power with the First Son and the Children.

Also I wouldn't be surprised if the First Son was the second most powerful Sith at the time sans Vitiates.

Is it specifically said that they grant him power? If anything he should be stronger without having to imbue them with a portion of his strength. And even then, only if the Jedi Knight storyline occurs after the Consular one. Given that the Jedi Knight is the only one without seeing Surresh as Supreme Chancellor, theres no way to really tell. Either way, Vitiate recovers his strength if you go to rescue your love interest, he was on a phenomenally powerful darkside nexus and the HoT had to fight through Kaas City and the Imperial Guard to get to him.

Neither would I. Except that he lacks the feats necessary to proclaim him as such. Maybe SWTORE says something about him?

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Say what?

I realize that Vitiate was drawing power from his myriad of human batteries, but I assumed it was for his galaxy-buffet ritual.

Don't tell me that the guy relies on them for a fight. Makes him look like a bigger puss if that's true.

Nah. If anything it would make him weaker since part of his power would be tied up in his Children. Not to mention the Imperial Guard as well.

Mizukage Yoda
Originally posted by Nephthys
Is it specifically said that they grant him power? If anything he should be stronger without having to imbue them with a portion of his strength. And even then, only if the Jedi Knight storyline occurs after the Consular one. Given that the Jedi Knight is the only one without seeing Surresh as Supreme Chancellor, theres no way to really tell. Either way, Vitiate recovers his strength if you go to rescue your love interest, he was on a phenomenally powerful darkside nexus and the HoT had to fight through Kaas City and the Imperial Guard to get to him.

Neither would I. Except that he lacks the feats necessary to proclaim him as such. Maybe SWTORE says something about him?



Nah. If anything it would make him weaker since his part of his power would be tied up in his Children. Not to mention the Imperial Guard as well.

I always thought that the loss of the Children during the Battle of the Corellia created an additional opening for the JK to kill the Emperor. Surresh was likely busy welcoming Corellia back into the Republic.

Also the Emperor was likely still weakened, I doubt a few hours would help recovering from a galactic ritual.

Anyway, the Jedi Consular had to fight through several of the Emperor's Children and the Imperial Guard on Corellia before fighting him.

Nephthys
Maybe. What made you think that? It could make sense but I wouldn't jump to conclusions. She could, or she could not have been appointed yet.

Sure, but he still had the nexus advantage and the advantage of the Knight having to fight to get to him.

But they weren't on a nexus so powerful that it disables blasters. And the Emperor obviously had better defenses.

The_Tempest
I'm 99% sure that the Encyclopedia says Vitiate draws strength from his minions. I'll try to find the quote.

Mizukage Yoda
mqXox4Ezp1A

6:52, the Consular holds back Syo's saber with her force powers, then curbstomps him ala force push.

Mizukage Yoda
Still I think Dooku edges out victory.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Still I think Dooku edges out victory.
How Dooku will overcome such a prodigy is beyond me. Their is virtually nothing Dooku can throw at Bersen'thor that she cannot handle. On the contrary, Bersen'thor can be extremely potent with her Force powers (a feat on page 1 proves this).

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Nephthys
Is it specifically said that they grant him power? If anything he should be stronger without having to imbue them with a portion of his strength. And even then, only if the Jedi Knight storyline occurs after the Consular one. Given that the Jedi Knight is the only one without seeing Surresh as Supreme Chancellor, theres no way to really tell. Either way, Vitiate recovers his strength if you go to rescue your love interest, he was on a phenomenally powerful darkside nexus and the HoT had to fight through Kaas City and the Imperial Guard to get to him.

Neither would I. Except that he lacks the feats necessary to proclaim him as such. Maybe SWTORE says something about him?
Depending upon the choices made, Vitiate informs HoT that he have gained "little advantage" at maximum (ambiguity remains); since Vitiate had already invested too much of his power in the galaxy-busting ritual in addition to his other investments, it makes sense for him to not be able to exit from it quickly and recover his strength properly since he was not expecting an assassination attempt during that time. He chose Dark Temple because it was the best choice to consider to participate in a ritual during his moment of vulnerability.

Mizukage Yoda have a point; it remains to be seen that what kind of effect the loss of First Son had on Vitiate.

Mizukage Yoda
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
How Dooku will overcome such a prodigy is beyond me. Their is virtually nothing Dooku can throw at Bersen'thor that she cannot handle. On the contrary, Bersen'thor can be extremely potent with her Force powers (a feat on page 1 proves this).

Because Dooku is a genius who's studied the force for nearly 8 decades? And while logically the Barsen'thor should have Tutaminis, there are several times in the storyline where they gets blasted with lightning, and are unable to counter it. The only time they do counter it against Darth Lachriss.

Nephthys
Well he does dodge Vivicar's apprentices lightning twice.

Mizukage Yoda
Originally posted by Nephthys
Well he does dodge Vivicar's apprentices lightning twice.

And he gets blasted by the First Son's and one of the Children's lightning.

Dooku's lightning is superior to some random Child of the Emperor.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Because Dooku is a genius who's studied the force for nearly 8 decades? And while logically the Barsen'thor should have Tutaminis, there are several times in the storyline where they gets blasted with lightning, and are unable to counter it. The only time they do counter it against Darth Lachriss.
Studying the Force for long periods does not necessarily grants advantage; several examples support my point. While a necessary component to improve command of the Force, studying the Force would make difference on "qualitative" aspects. For example: Darth Bane acquired excellent wealth of knowledge and got the opportunity to hone his skills in better ways then many others in his era in comparison to him accordingly.

I wouldn't rely on a game to determine if a character have Tutaminis capabilities or not (CIP: Revan) but it is obvious that the player story-lines represent prodigiously talented individuals. Sheer evidence coupled with canon information suggests that Bersen'thor outguns Dooku; she is very capable at using the Force for destructive capabilities and defeated "a master of the Force" level opponent. Dooku, while being impressive, have never been acknowledged as "a master of the Force" level individual in canon; he simply isn't. The odds are heavily against him in this fight.

---

Also, while I was playing SWTOR recently, somebody shook the entire Jedi Temple with his Force powers. Upon inquiry, I found out that it is work of a player with Bersen'thor character. Man, that was scary. Of-course, this game doesn't features destructible environments; some game engine(s) support destructible environments.

Intrepid37
Who are you to judge that Dooku isn't a master of the force?

Just asking.

Mizukage Yoda
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Studying the Force for long periods does not necessarily grants advantage; several examples support my point. While a necessary component to improve command of the Force, studying the Force would make difference on "qualitative" aspects. For example: Darth Bane acquired excellent wealth of knowledge and got the opportunity to hone his skills in better ways then many others in his era in comparison to him accordingly.

"The best of all would be the strongest student, yes? Wisest? Most learned in the ways of the Force? Best of all, Dooku would be! Our greatest student! Our greatest failure."



Yes he is. Multiple times. He was the most powerful Jedi Master of his time sans Yoda and maybe Windu. And are you seriously suggesting that we just...give someone an ability because they "should" have it.




What? I don't remember this.

Nephthys
My Consular has an ability that uses Shatterpoint. Does that mean that the Barsen'thor has Shatterpoint or can we safely call that non-canon?

The_Tempest
Pretty sure Dooku is called a "master of the Force" in his entry in the Encyclopedia. Not that it matters, given the array of other impressive feats and accolades tied to his name.

The_Tempest
Originally posted by The_Tempest
I'm 99% sure that the Encyclopedia says Vitiate draws strength from his minions. I'll try to find the quote.

Don't have a page number, but it's found the page/s about Vitiate's servants, specifically the Hands.

"Servants of the Hand share their master's longevity, living untouched by for centuries under his command. In return, the Emperor draws on his servants' strength in the Force and body to feed his ever increasing power ."

Sorry, took a photo of it on my iPhone and zoomed too far in.

Mizukage Yoda
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Don't have a page number, but it's found the page/s about Vitiate's servants, specifically the Hands.

"Servants of the Hand share their master's longevity, living untouched by for centuries under his command. In return, the Emperor draws on his servants' strength in the Force and body to feed his ever increasing power ."

Sorry, took a photo of it on my iPhone and zoomed too far in.

Then I think it's fairly safe to assume that he'd draw on the power of his children as well then.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Intrepid37
Who are you to judge that Dooku isn't a master of the force?

Just asking.
This is not about mine or anybody else's judgment; I am sticking to canonical description of characters in my debates.

Some characters actually have received "master of the Force" accolade in Star Wars encyclopedia(s). Dooku haven't received this kind of accolade in any canonical source.

Dooku is among the greatest legends and greatest losses for the Jedi Order but their is lot of room for creative liberties with the term "among the" involved.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
"The best of all would be the strongest student, yes? Wisest? Most learned in the ways of the Force? Best of all, Dooku would be! Our greatest student! Our greatest failure."
I know this; novels tend to hype any noteworthy character a lot. Accolades given in Star Wars encyclopedia(s) is a big deal. Even the word "powerful" is a noteworthy accolade in a Star Wars encyclopedia.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Yes he is. Multiple times. He was the most powerful Jedi Master of his time sans Yoda and maybe Windu. And are you seriously suggesting that we just...give someone an ability because they "should" have it.
He is decent over-all but not a "master of the Force" type individual. Yoda would qualify for this rank but Dooku wouldn't in a Star Wars encyclopedia.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
What? I don't remember this.
I experienced this during my gameplay. The whole region shook as if a powerful earthquake have struck and it seemed like the Temple would fall apart; fortunately, environments in SWTOR are not destructible but it would have been fun to have this feature in the game regardless.

S_W_LeGenD
One more thing:

Their can be hundreds better then Dooku and he would still qualify for "among the" position since Jedi Order have a huge history. So this doesn't lowballs him.

Nephthys
Legend, you are straight up crazy if you don't think Dooku is a Force Master. He's one of the very best.

DARTH POWER
If Dooku's not a Force Master then who is in the PT/OT era? Just Yoda and Sidious?

Of course the Jedi Temple's "Most learned in the ways of the Force" (according to Yoda) is a Master of the Force.

Intrepid37
http://i39.tinypic.com/aliteh.jpg

-Jedi vs Sith - Essential Guide to The Force

http://i1349.photobucket.com/albums/p751/Intrepid37/Count%20Dooku/Dookualegend_zps0278595e.png

-The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia

http://i1349.photobucket.com/albums/p751/Intrepid37/Count%20Dooku/Dooku-ordinaryforcestrength_zpsc3adde31.png

-The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia

"Hm." Yoda stirred again with his stick. "Then best of all would be the strongest student, yes? Wisest? Most learned in the ways of the Force?" He nodded. "Best of all, Dooku would be!"

His eyes found the other Jedi, one by one: and one by one, they looked away.

"Our great student!" Yoda's ears flexed, then drooped. "Our great failure."

-Dark Rendezvous

Once a great Jedi Master, now an even greater Lord of the Sith, Dooku is a dark colossus bestriding the galaxy. Nemesis of the corrupt Republic, oriflamme of the principled Confederacy of Independent Systems, he is the very personification of shock and awe.

He was one of the most respected and powerful Jedi in the Order's twenty-five-thousand-year history

-Revenge of the Sith

Mizukage Yoda
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
This is not about mine or anybody else's judgment; I am sticking to canonical description of characters in my debates.
Lol no.



Too bad encyclopedias and novels are the same level of canonicity. C-canon. So, yes it does have to do with your opinion.


So, you are trying to dictate what canon source we use. Sorry , no.




I think you are either lying or misinformed. Gameplay is non-canon.

There is no instance in lore of a Force user generating an Earthquake that you refer to. And it certainly wasn't generated by a knight-level Jedi.

Nephthys
He might just be talking about Forcequake.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Lol no.
I think you misunderstood my point. Hopefully I will clarify my point this time; continue to read below.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Too bad encyclopedias and novels are the same level of canonicity. C-canon. So, yes it does have to do with your opinion.
My point is not about credibility but rather writing styles used in different sources. Authors are more comfortable at describing or hyping characters in mediums such as novels and comics then they are in a medium such as the encyclopedia; reason is that encyclopedia presents the "grand picture" of lore and this necessitates certain degree of realism in its writing style.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
So, you are trying to dictate what canon source we use. Sorry , no.
No, I am focusing on the big picture; if I venture in to all of the canon sources then Dooku is seriously outgunned. But I want to give him fair representation by saying that he is decent in the big picture because of the accolades he received.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
I think you are either lying or misinformed. Gameplay is non-canon.

There is no instance in lore of a Force user generating an Earthquake that you refer to. And it certainly wasn't generated by a knight-level Jedi.
I am not saying that the event is canon but simply described the (possible) capabilities of the character(s) featured in main story-lines of SWTOR.

Here is description of this power: http://www.torhead.com/ability/gakL3P4/forcequake#screenshots;view:15610

I personally experienced this power during the gameplay and it is scary. Upon consulting other members, I found out that a player (of high level character) was possibly fooling around.

Besides, Bersen'thor have very potent capabilities as apparent from one of her feats in the first page of this thread and I am sure that by the end of her story arc, she is even more capable. Their are 45 more levels left for her, remember?

How many Jedi have earned the rank of Bersen'thor by the way?

In the nutshell, Dooku is outgunned in this contest. Dooku's FL ability is not even his strongest point; his TK abilities are, and he is seemingly outclassed even in TK contest here.

Nephthys
I believe its about 5 in the entire Jedi Orders history up until that point who had earned the title of Barsen'thor. An exclusive list to be sure.

Another feat for the Barsen'thor:

sjciPHddNok

4.25. You're required to find a way through a blastdoor. To do so the Consular stabs some explosive barrels in order to, erm, blast through the door. That the Jedi took an explosion that can tear a hole in a blastdoor to the face is an impressive feat and indicates extremely high-caliber defensive abilities.

Also nice feat for Vivicar having all those psychic thralls running around.

Nephthys
CORRECTION, the feat above is at 9.30. I had to change videos. >_<

Correction x 2, the one in the game is the third Barsen'thor.

Anyway, I've completed Act 1 and thoroughly believe that the Barsen'thor wins. Despite being weakened severely through using the shielding technique on six Jedi Masters, she still is powerful enough to fight through Vivicars host of brainwashed Republic troops and defeat Lord Vivicar. Vivicar himself is actually a Jedi Knight possessed by the spirit of the Sith Lord Terrak Morrhage, a being powerful enough to drive 6 Jedi Knights insane. Vivicar himself is clearly immensely powerful, able to brainwash hundreds of Republic troops permanently (as in they still attack invading Republic soldiers even after Vivicars defeat). Also able to give a few of them gigantism (wtf, why were they so big???). He can also draw on the power of the Jedi Masters who are the victims of his plague, a number he claims to be in the hundreds. If this is true then he must be massively powerful, making the Barsen'thors defeat of him while weakened all the more impressive. Even if we ignore that number he still has 6 Jedi Masters to call upon, making the feat less insane, yet still incredible.

If she can do that despite being massively weakened I can only conclude that a full strength Barsen'thor would beat Dooku to death with his own lightsaber hilt. 313wank

Nephthys
I can confirm that Vivicar was telling the truth about how many Jedi Masters he infected.

Frankly, I'm a little stunned.

(sorry about the triple post)

Mizukage Yoda
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
-snip-

Bro...gameplay is non-canon. Force Quake does not shake down the entire temple. I play as a consular as my main in swtor. Vivcar is powerful, but honestly someone fighting through a Jedi Knight-level enemy is not that impressive. Especially considering that was with her saber.

Dooku also fought two nightsisters and Ventress blind and drugged. He won that fight through his force prowess. He defeated Savage through his force prowess, he defeated Kenobi and Skywalker with the same.

Dooku is a champ. And if this is a force only confrontation Barsen'thor doesn't have the feats to not get blasted and then force choked out by Dooku. And if you add sabers Dooku definitely stomps.

@Nephthys, It's actually only two others, he is the third. And while the title is awesome, it looses its prestige when the only other known Jedi to obtain it was a Padawan who did something honorable. It's basically people who are the ideal Jedi. Not necessarily and indicator of their power.

I won't lie, the Barsen'thor has considerable hype. But so does Dooku, and Dooku has 8+decades of experience as well.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Bro...gameplay is non-canon. Force Quake does not shake down the entire temple. I play as a consular as my main in swtor. Vivcar is powerful, but honestly someone fighting through a Jedi Knight-level enemy is not that impressive. Especially considering that was with her saber.
I get the non-canon part but I pointed out my experience during my gameplay. Maybe the character involved was immensely powerful but we can drop this point for now.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Dooku also fought two nightsisters and Ventress blind and drugged. He won that fight through his force prowess.
Question is that how much trained and learned in the ways of the Force were these individuals during this time?

The label of "nightsister" doesn't proves much. And last time I checked, Ventress isn't renowned for her command in the Force.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
He defeated Savage through his force prowess
Really? Last time I checked, Savage forced him to retreat. The only reason for Savage lacking in performance was due to his inadequate grasp of ways of the Force.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
he defeated Kenobi and Skywalker with the same.
So? Both were young during this time. It became difficult for him to cope with Skywalker alone during the Clone Wars. Yes, I do believe that his fall on Invisible Hand is circumstantial to a certain degree because he was tasked to lure Anakin to the dark side rather attempt to overwhelm him but Anakin still was relatively superior duelist during this time at minimum (age was also on his side). Regardless, Dooku have limitations since the duo of Savage and Ventress also pushed him to his limits. In contrast, you know what Sidious did to the brothers, right? Now this is an example of "a master of the Force" level individual.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Dooku is a champ. And if this is a force only confrontation Barsen'thor doesn't have the feats to not get blasted and then force choked out by Dooku.
Seriously?

Beat this:

Originally posted by Nephthys
Finally found this feat:

http://25.media.tumblr.com/30f33c05a03920427cccee1290d51490/tumblr_mnu9ayeG0s1rbwuv5o1_500.png

http://25.media.tumblr.com/987fe392f1ff526beec47ae6dbc1d448/tumblr_mnu9ayeG0s1rbwuv5o2_500.png

Very impressive, and looks like it didn't take much effort. I mean christ, look how thick that door is.

This isn't the peak of Bersen'thor by the way.

Most importantly, Bersen'thor have defeated (more) impressive foes. Period.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
And if you add sabers Dooku definitely stomps.
Let us not get carried away with assumptions here; we do not know much about dueling skills of Bersen'thor but she didn't suck in this department.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
@Nephthys, It's actually only two others, he is the third. And while the title is awesome, it looses its prestige when the only other known Jedi to obtain it was a Padawan who did something honorable. It's basically people who are the ideal Jedi. Not necessarily and indicator of their power.

I won't lie, the Barsen'thor has considerable hype. But so does Dooku, and Dooku has 8+decades of experience as well.
Bersen'thor have more then hype on her side.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Regardless, Dooku have limitations since the duo of Savage and Ventress also pushed him to his limits.

Well he was sort of taken by surprise. (He didn't know Ventress was alive and Opress a traitor). Plus fighting 2 opponents in a cramped space.

But even still he was besting that duo and handling Opress with the Force, until Opress got Dooku in a surprise rage enhanced choke, which seemed to have weakened him.

Doesn't matter as he performed much better later in a more open space and against a superior duo whom he was prepared for: ROTS Kenobi and Skywalker.




Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
In contrast, you know what Sidious did to the brothers, right? Now this is an example of "a master of the Force" level individual.




Well Sidious is just more powerful than Dooku.

But Dooku's handling of Kenobi was similar to the way Sidious handled Maul and Opress.

Nephthys
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Vivcar is powerful, but honestly someone fighting through a Jedi Knight-level enemy is not that impressive. Especially considering that was with her saber.

Not sure if this is saying what I think it is, but Vivicar is far above Jedi Knight level. For one thing he's possessed by a Sith Lord and for another he's siphoning power from hundreds of Jedi Masters. And the Consular was weakened.

Not even talking about the half dozen Jedi Masters the Consular had already defeated by that point.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Well he was sort of taken by surprise. (He didn't know Ventress was alive and Opress a traitor). Plus fighting 2 opponents in a cramped space.

But even still he was besting that duo and handling Opress with the Force, until Opress got Dooku in a surprise rage enhanced choke, which seemed to have weakened him.
During this fight, the first setting wasn't cramped for any character involved. The second setting was cramped but then Ventress alone stood no chance against Dooku. In addition, Opress had padawan level skills so he didn't had much options either. In the nutshell, Dooku outclassed this duo and managed.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Doesn't matter as he performed much better later in a more open space and against a superior duo whom he was prepared for: ROTS Kenobi and Skywalker.
I wouldn't say "much better" but I agree that both Kenobi and Skywalker represented relatively superior duo then the former one of Ventress and Opress. I do believe that Dooku possessed the capability to fight his way out of this duel, if he hadn't chosen to follow conditions.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Well Sidious is just more powerful than Dooku.

But Dooku's handling of Kenobi was similar to the way Sidious handled Maul and Opress.
Point is that bring "a master of the Force" level individual in to the picture (who would have answer to any tricks of Dooku) and Dooku would be in serious trouble. His options would be extremely limited in this scenario; either he would need to flee and/or risk getting killed by attempting to strike down the opponent with his lightsaber.

Dooku is unfortunately outgunned in this duel. Bersen'thor is a new introduction so I understand that her capabilities and feats are not yet fully understood by many, but member (Nephthys) is doing a decent job in this thread.

Mizukage Yoda
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I get the non-canon part but I pointed out my experience during my gameplay. Maybe the character involved was immensely powerful but we can drop this point for now.
Concession accepted.


Trained from a young age. Some nightsisters were capable of FL.




She was able to Force Choke Kenobi and Skywalker at once. She's fairly formidable.



You checked wrong. Dooku put Savage down with Force lighting time after time.




Pure PIS/CIS that Dooku didn't just put him down with the force everytime they met.


Dooku fought on par with Yoda, who is far more powerful than the Barsen'thor. The Barsen'thor is not more impressive than the greatest Grand Master in history.


First off the spelling is Barsen'thor
Second, Dooku has the hype of being one of the most powerful Jedi in the order's 25,000 year history.
Third, Dooku fought on par with Yoda, who is the most powerful Jedi Master in history. That's more hype than the Barsen'thor could eer hope to achieve.

Nephthys
Sure, in a lightsaber duel. Which is irrelevent to this thread. In their fight Yoda blocked his Force attacks and thats it. Unlike the Barsen'thor, Yoda is unwilling to attack people with the Force. If he did though I doubt many of us would argue that he and Dooku are equal.

Mizukage Yoda
Originally posted by Nephthys
Sure, in a lightsaber duel. Which is irrelevent to this thread. In their fight Yoda blocked his Force attacks and thats it. Unlike the Barsen'thor, Yoda is unwilling to attack people with the Force. If he did though I doubt many of us would argue that he and Dooku are equal.

Yoda...unwilling to attack?
"Destroy the Sith we must."
"Love you enough to kill you, I do."
Dooku was able to deflect his own reflected lightning rebound by Yoda, after the Grand Master reflected it back into his face.

Nephthys
'A jedi uses the force for knowledge and defense, never for attack.'

- Yoda, Empire Strikes Back.

It always surprises me how often people forget about this quote.

Reflecting your own lightning is hardly impressive, given that its.... your own lightning. Its not like you can overpower yourself particularly easily.

Point is, Yoda never brought his Force power into play. If he wasn't such a ****ing pussy he could beat Dooku with the Force pretty easily imo.

And for the lightsabers its handwavable by him just being out of practice and shape.

The_Tempest
facepalm

No one forgot the quote from TESB; you apparently forgot he issued that edict twenty years after the quotes provided by Mizukage_Yoda. Not a retcon, dumbass. thumb up

And I'm pretty sure I recall Yoda ragdolling Sidious with impunity in ROTS. And just like that, your theory that Yoda never uses the Force offensively goes up in smoke. That's a better magic trick than the Joker's lame ass schtick with the pencil.

We argue what characters are capable of, not scripting the fight due to morals or PIS. Might as well say Yoda or Dooku will pwn Barsen'thor since he has to stop for a dialogue option before the fight begins.

Start using your head for something other than a seat cushion, Neph.

Nephthys
Aw, did baby break his bottle? Why so serious babe? Did you run out of David Boreanaz porn and now you're all cwanky (get it, like wank??)?

Did I say it was a retcon? I added that quote to explain why Yoda didn't attack Dooku in their fight. The explanation is perfectly plausible for Yoda's very real non-actions in that fight.

If by ragdolling you mean, 'pushed over a chair', then sure. But I mean, if thats Yoda going all out offensively something tells me his 'Most Powerful Jedi Evar' reputation is a tad laughable in hindsight. That can hardly be called an attack as much as a floppy glove-slap across the jowls.

I'm not scripting the fight you baboon, merely pointing out that Yoda canonically never attacked Dooku in their duel. After which I responded to Mizukage's tangential point about why Yoda didn't attack Dooku. In which he mentioned nothing to do with Yoda assaulting his opponents with the Force. Sure Yoda was trying to kill them both. With his lightsaber. When does he actually attempt to kill either using the Force? Never is when. Dooku 'drawing' with Yoda is completely irrelevent in this Force fightonly thread because Yoda never actually competed against Dooku. He merely blocked or redirected his attacks and moved on to the lightsaber duel. Ergo pointing it out is, forgive the pun, pointless here. Ergo you suck.

Start reading up what you're criticising before leaping in half-pantsed. Whatever happened to 'always cover thy ass' I wonder. Yours seems a tad chilly to me. tehe

The_Tempest
Originally posted by Nephthys
Aw, did baby break his bottle? Why so serious babe? Did you run out of David Boreanaz porn and now you're all cwanky (get it, like wank??)?

That was an especially clumsy taunt, Neph. Remember, reciting lines from the Dark Knight is what historically reduces you to tears and tantrums, not me. laughing out loud

Originally posted by Nephthys
Did I say it was a retcon? I added that quote to explain why Yoda didn't attack Dooku in their fight. The explanation is perfectly plausible for Yoda's very real non-actions in that fight.

If by ragdolling you mean, 'pushed over a chair', then sure. But I mean, if thats Yoda going all out offensively something tells me his 'Most Powerful Jedi Evar' reputation is a tad laughable in hindsight. That can hardly be called an attack as much as a floppy glove-slap across the jowls.

Thank you for conceding the point. thumb up

Originally posted by Nephthys
I'm not scripting the fight you baboon, merely pointing out that Yoda canonically never attacked Dooku in their duel. After which I responded to Mizukage's tangential point about why Yoda didn't attack Dooku. In which he mentioned nothing to do with Yoda assaulting his opponents with the Force. Sure Yoda was trying to kill them both. With his lightsaber. When does he actually attempt to kill either using the Force? Never is when.

Start reading up what you're criticising before leaping in half-pantsed. Whatever happened to 'always cover thy ass' I wonder. Yours seems a tad chilly to me. tehe

We already established that Yoda has indeed used the Force to attack his opponents, contrary to your dishonest argument.

It's tragic that you can't make a case even lying out your ass. Time to give it up, Neph.

Nephthys
I didn't concede shit. I don't acknowledge it as an actual attack. That would require harmful intent, which I'm not convinced Yoda had when he... pushed Sidious over a chair.

Perhaps he just wanted him to stop laughing.

Nope.

Give up what? Mizukage didn't even attempt to contradict me because however dishonest it may or may not be, my argument is unassailable fact.

The_Tempest
laughing out loud

No one gives a shit what you do or do not acknowledge as anything. You're an admitted liar and that confession taints everything you post in the context of a debate.

You said Yoda is unwilling to attack people with the Force, you've been proven wrong with G-canon evidence. You can posture all you like that Yoda was just giving Sidious the equivalent of a friendly shove on the playground when he hurled him across the room and over a chair... but that's all it will be: posturing.

As usual, you lose. Like the girls who collected your lunch money during each and every school day, I graciously accept your concession.

Time for you to carry on in the shadow of contempt.

/discussion

The_Tempest
I sense the shitstorm you're brewing in the cauldron of insecurity, but don't bother weeping: the "vitriol" is all a farce.

(like your argument)

Nephthys
Actually, I specifically said 'unwilling' there because I knew that someone was going to point this out like a giant tool. Now I'm just a simple country homosexual, but it seems to me *thumbs suspenders* that 'unwilling' doesn't mean 'will never do it ever'. So you see, I never claimed that he never attacked ever, only that he was disinclined to do so. Once again, it seems there is nothing you can nitpick that I cannot bullshit my way out of.

Also, nope x 2 combo! No matter what you say, an attack needs to be harmful or with the intent to cause harm. Yodas 'attack' was not. Therefore the attack was a lie. A distaction from reality, much like this pointless nitpicky nonsense you're saying. Next time you feel like interrupting, go read Twilight again instead. laughing

The_Tempest
So, to recap: You said Yoda is unwilling to attack, I prove Yoda is willing to attack, I win, you lose?

Nephthys
Nah.

So completely random thought, if someone were to have hypothetically read all the Twilight books, watched Angel and Buffy the vampire slayer and watched True Blood and the Vampire Diaries..... would that make them officially an emo gothy loser? I think it does. You'd have to be pretty damn lame to like all that crappy vampire stuff.

# You are this loser #It is you # Also you're black # And thats terrible # Hashtags 4 lyfe

The_Tempest
Your attempt to change the subject is wise.

Nephthys
So are True Blood and the Vampire Diaries exactly the kind of super gay Desperate Housewives-but-with-vampires horseshite that I think they are, or are they even lamer and more pandering? I bet they're stock dramas about whose porking who except with sickly brooding pretty boys moaning about how tortured their souls are before simmering at the cameras.

pencilcrayon
Originally posted by Nephthys
Nah.

Also you're black # And thats terrible
You hate black people?

Nephthys
Of course not. Some of my best murders were of colored folks.

Mizukage Yoda
Originally posted by Nephthys
I didn't concede shit. I don't acknowledge it as an actual attack. That would require harmful intent, which I'm not convinced Yoda had when he... pushed Sidious over a chair.
Did you forget Yoda shoving a pod in Sidious' direction with killer intent?



And perhaps you want me to laugh, because that's what that argument is making me do.




Dude your ESB quote is a red herring. That was Yoda twenty years ago after he realized that going out with murderous attempt backfires on you.

Or did you miss the whole third of ROTS where he was saying "destroy the Sith we must".

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by Nephthys


Did I say it was a retcon? I added that quote to explain why Yoda didn't attack Dooku in their fight. The explanation is perfectly plausible for Yoda's very real non-actions in that fight.


I'm not scripting the fight you baboon, merely pointing out that Yoda canonically never attacked Dooku in their duel.



Does redirecting Dooku's lightning not classify as an attack? It would have hit Dooku in the face iirc if Dooku didn't block it.

As for the ESB quote, he was teaching Luke Jedi philosophy. That the force is used for defense, never for attack.

I think attacking a Sith Lord whose just murdered hundreds of Jedi and is about to either start a war, or take over the Galaxy, counts as defending oneself or others.

Nephthys
Anyway, I'll be waiting for Tempests apology for accusing me of things I didn't do. Any time you're ready bro. thumb up

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Does redirecting Dooku's lightning not classify as an attack? It would have hit Dooku in the face iirc if Dooku didn't block it.

As for the ESB quote, he was teaching Luke Jedi philosophy. That the force is used for defense, never for attack.

Nah, reflecting someones attack back at them isn't you yourself attacking them, is it?

Yeah, he says that Luke should be 'calm, at peace, passive' and warns him against 'aggression.'


Originally posted by DARTH POWER
I think attacking a Sith Lord whose just murdered hundreds of Jedi and is about to either start a war, or take over the Galaxy, counts as defending oneself or others.

That sounds like defense to me!


Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Did you forget Yoda shoving a pod in Sidious' direction with killer intent?

The pod would never have hit Sidious. In fact, it flies past him before he even jumps out of the way.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
And perhaps you want me to laugh, because that's what that argument is making me do.

The fact that Yoda trying to destroy Sidious somehow translates into him shoving him over his desk is rather amusing, I will admit. But then, thats why he's the most devastatingly powerful Jedi ever, right?!

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Dude your ESB quote is a red herring. That was Yoda twenty years ago after he realized that going out with murderous attempt backfires on you.

Or did you miss the whole third of ROTS where he was saying "destroy the Sith we must".

Or its an explanation for why he never offensively use the Force against opponents. Such as in his fight against Dooku. Just admit that bringing up that fight in regards to his chances against the Barsen'thor is irrelevent.

I already addressed that in my earlier post.

Intrepid37
Have to side with Nephthys here.

The_Tempest
Since I have nothing to apologize for, don't hold your breath. erm

You came, you lied, you lost. It's a microcosm of your life's tragic narrative.

Intrepid37
Originally posted by The_Tempest
You came,

Originally posted by The_Tempest
It's a microcosm of your life's tragic narrative.

naughty

Nephthys
Haha no. no expression

Lets have a look at your post shall we? It should be clear to all how uninformed and bullshit it is:

Originally posted by The_Tempest facepalm

No one forgot the quote from TESB; you apparently forgot he issued that edict twenty years after the quotes provided by Mizukage_Yoda. Not a retcon, dumbass. thumb up

And I'm pretty sure I recall Yoda ragdolling Sidious with impunity in ROTS. And just like that, your theory that Yoda never uses the Force offensively goes up in smoke. That's a better magic trick than the Joker's lame ass schtick with the pencil.

We argue what characters are capable of, not scripting the fight due to morals or PIS. Might as well say Yoda or Dooku will pwn Barsen'thor since he has to stop for a dialogue option before the fight begins.

Start using your head for something other than a seat cushion, Neph.

I have no idea what you're talking about with the retcon. I've not argued anything was retconned, so you're blatantly misinterpreting or starwmanning my argument here.

Furthermore I never said never. I never said that Yoda would never attack, now did I? I said unwilling. You claiming that my theory is that 'Yoda never uses the Force offensively' is false as I never claimed that. Never. Ever never ever.

To go even further beyond, you claim that I'm scripting the fight due to morals or PIS. I'm obviously not. Yoda isn't even a part of this thread, so how can I be scripting the fight based upon his morals? Did you even read the threads title before you decided to jump in half cocked and throw your weight around like an absurd drunken old west sheriff, desperate to maintain the illusion that you're still 'in charge'? The fact that Yoda never attacked Dooku with the Force and actually bringing his Force powers against him in just that, a fact. I am not scripting anything, just pointing out something that renders Mizukages point moot. Learn to read moron

And finally I don't own any chairs so it would be impossible for me to use my head as a seat cushion you F*CKING RETARD!

The_Tempest
Your outrage is amusing.

You claimed Yoda is unwilling to attack and tied your remark to a line that came twenty years after Yoda's brawling days were over. And it was about as buoyant as a cinder block, dragging your argument into the depths of deceit and stupidity.

Yoda's conduct in battle has shown that he's willing to attack his enemy with the Force.

You were wrong, I was right, and it's about time you accept that the nature of our relationship isn't going to change.

Nephthys
http://25.media.tumblr.com/c8116a202ad09f88eaa7eee4a1f344a7/tumblr_molbhmZaRL1qdp12lo1_500.jpg

The_Tempest
And now the federal government is on our side.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Concession accepted.
Please keep in mind that the full extent of capabilities of Barsen'thor are not yet clear.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Trained from a young age. Some nightsisters were capable of FL.
Do they get Sith Lord like training? I doubt this. Yes, nightsisters can be very formidable (Gethzerion being an example) but this isn't the norm. Luke encountered a nightsister who unleashed a single bolt on one of his allies but the young Jedi easily killed her; this is prior to events of ROTJ.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
She was able to Force Choke Kenobi and Skywalker at once. She's fairly formidable.
After getting trained in the ways of the Force by Dooku himself. She wasn't this good when Dooku met her. Also, it is possible that both Kenobi and Skywalker got caught unprepared; I recall that Opress also simultaneously choked both Ventress and Dooku and he wasn't more powerful than either of them or Dooku at minimum.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
You checked wrong. Dooku put Savage down with Force lighting time after time.
Watch the whole fight. Opress not just disarmed Dooku but also choked him. He was distracted by the arrival of the Jedi.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Pure PIS/CIS that Dooku didn't just put him down with the force everytime they met.
This I agree with.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Dooku fought on par with Yoda, who is far more powerful than the Barsen'thor. The Barsen'thor is not more impressive than the greatest Grand Master in history.
Dooku never fought on par with Yoda; this fight is a perfect example of PIS. Yoda held back with his Force powers and chose to disarm Dooku with his dueling skills instead. Yoda wanted to turn Dooku back to light.

And Yoda is far more powerful then Barsen'thor? Give me a break.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
First off the spelling is Barsen'thor
Thanks for pointing out.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Second, Dooku has the hype of being one of the most powerful Jedi in the order's 25,000 year history.
Hundreds of Jedi can be better then Dooku and he still can be counted as "among the" most powerful Jedi in the Order's 25000 year history.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Third, Dooku fought on par with Yoda, who is the most powerful Jedi Master in history. That's more hype than the Barsen'thor could eer hope to achieve.
See above.

Nephthys
Dooku did flee the battle in Witches of the Mist, Mizukage. He and Ventress did put Oppress down, but he got right back up again as Dooku fled down that hatch.

Even if I think its stupid that Oppress is as good as he is, the fact remains that he did disarm Dooku, choked Dooku and Ventress out and then put both of them on their asses with single swings. Dooku didn't come out of the fight looking like a clear superior.

As for Dooku not beating Anakin with the Force: Dooku just isn't powerful enough to beat him that way. He's used the Force against Anakin repeatedly, but it always does little more than impede him. The gap in power isn't big enough for him to own Anakin in that matter. Barring that one duel where Anakin was shocked repeatedly with electrostaffs, and even then Dooku was breathing hard afterwards despite barely doing anything.

S_W_LeGenD
^^

Absolutely agreed. Also, thanks for additional information.

Intrepid37
I still think that, in an open environment, Dooku should be able to overpower a duo of Ventress and Opress.

Nephthys
Perhaps, as long as Oppress doesn't go berserk as he did in Witches of the Mist.

Intrepid37
Agreed.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Intrepid37
I still think that, in an open environment, Dooku should be able to overpower a duo of Ventress and Opress.
Depends upon the type of environment...Dooku can gain advantage in a environment in which he can find objects to hurl like missiles towards his opponents to injure, disarm or possibly kill them.

The initial setting (where the "duel in question" began) represents an open environment actually.

Opress lacked in training aspect; he is strong otherwise.

NewGuy01
I doubt Dooku would be able to penetrate Barsen'thors Force Defenses, and same with Vice-Versa.

However, while Dooku has more skill with Telekinesis, from what I've seen in this thread, his power with the Force barely compares. Smashing through that blast door is an incredible feat.

I suppose it all boils down to whether or not the Barsen'thor can use Tutenemis. If he/she can, then they take this battle. If not, then Dooku will do to them what he did to Opress in witches of the mist.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by NewGuy01
I doubt Dooku would be able to penetrate Barsen'thors Force Defenses, and same with Vice-Versa.

However, while Dooku has more skill with Telekinesis, from what I've seen in this thread, his power with the Force barely compares. Smashing through that blast door is an incredible feat.

I suppose it all boils down to whether or not the Barsen'thor can use Tutenemis. If he/she can, then they take this battle. If not, then Dooku will do to them what he did to Opress in witches of the mist.
I don't understand how Dooku has more skill with Telekinesis... Barsen'thor shattered that gigantic blast door with a gesture from a single hand. If she unleashes power with both hands, she can do much better.

In addition, Barsen'thor should logically have an answer to Force lightning since she encountered many foes which wielded this power. First Son is specially a "master of the Force" and his attacks would be logically very lethal and dangerous. Star Wars games from Bioware are not very realistic in depiction of Force powers and battles unfortunately.

Dooku is outgunned. I don't recall Dooku being able to defeat any "master of the Force" level individual.

NewGuy01
No, but he was able to have a wizards duel with Yoda and not be too embarrassed. wink

Nephthys
Another feat:

_jVgsjTyLEI

18.00 Smashes a rock into a force field generator hard enough to demolish it.

Mizukage Yoda
Originally posted by Nephthys
Another feat:

_jVgsjTyLEI

18.00 Smashes a rock into a force field generator hard enough to demolish it.
Gameplay is non-canon excellent

Nephthys
Not sure I'd count that as gameplay. You need to destroy the generators to complete the quest afterall. If you mean the animation is non-canon then maybe, though I'd say that the developers made the conscious decision to have them be demolished rather than simply broken.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Gameplay is non-canon excellent
That seems like a cut-scene.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD


Dooku never fought on par with Yoda; this fight is a perfect example of PIS. Yoda held back with his Force powers and chose to disarm Dooku with his dueling skills instead. Yoda wanted to turn Dooku back to light.



If your going to claim to know Yoda's intentions you should at least post proof of this. In fact Yoda doesn't even believe one can be turned back to the light once they have embraced the Dark Side (ESB/ROTJ).

And he admits in DR that he's always been willing to kill Dooku if it came to that "Even here.. Love you enough to kill you I do."

Yoda's > Dooku obviously, but Dooku can clearly put up a fight.

Nephthys
Finally finished the Consular story. Some last feats:

2QEs7C9B9uY

2.12, the Barsen'thor shrugs off a telepathic assault from the First Son. Then at 5.12 the Barsen'thor appears to use the Force to overpower the First Son's will in order to give Syo back his mind. This is backed up later when the Council credits her with overcoming his will so I guess that is what shes doing. Also the First Son has an attack called 'collapse cavern' where he starts pulling shit down from the ceiling. Not sure about its canonicity but you know.


Theres also proof that the Emperor's Children are really powerful. At 7.50 Master Jaeden says that after losing the First Sons protection they can sense the immense power of the Emperor's children "Their darkness screams at use." Furthermore at 14.35 one manages to temporarily overwhelm the Barsen'thor:

DhusVly9gXg

Also one unleashes a nasty blast of lightning at 29.30. That wet crunch was cringey.

pencilcrayon
He flicked Obi-Wan.

Nephthys
These schizophrenic "responses" are starting to make me think that you're just a bot.

Intrepid37
umad Neph?

Nephthys
No, its just that his posting style completely baffles me. He never addresses anyone, forms arguments or counters points. He just posts a feat then leaves.

Intrepid37
That was rude to say publicly.

Nephthys
I know, I'm trying to see if he can express anger at me. Or, respond at all. If so I will definitely apologise.

Intrepid37
I bet he'll just continue his mojo.

Nephthys
Bump.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
facepalm

No one forgot the quote from TESB; you apparently forgot he issued that edict twenty years after the quotes provided by Mizukage_Yoda. Not a retcon, dumbass. thumb up

I just wanted to clarify this point so..... Yoda repeats this statement in an annotation in The Jedi Path, a book which he possessed a good seventy years before any of the movies.

So guess what *******, looks like I win again. http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-thumbsup.gif

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.