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A supposedly godlike being vs a harmless looking creature

Since Sith Emperor doesn't use a saber

1) Force only

Location: Realm beyond shadows
Dromund Kaas
Will either of the terrain aid the Sith Emperor?

Sith Emperor is extremely learned in the ways of the dark side; he can harness dark side power in the manner that others cannot.

Abeloth is also insanely powerful but she lacks in formal training in the ways of the Force (much of her abilities came natural to her but she is still like a wild animal); Sith Emperor can destroy her bodies from safe distance.

Even if Abeloth somehow grabs hold of Sith Emperor, he himself have Abeloth like capabilities and would switch to another Voice and then strike again (if he looses his body) but he can resist very well.

If Abeloth looses all of her bodies, can she still survive?

Sith Emperor, on the other hand, can dominate/possess any sentient individual to acquire a body for him. And he cannot be stopped until or unless his essence can be contained somehow.

Though this is likely to be a very long contest.

Abeloth wins

going to add something

1) Only those two present. No one's around to take over for either side.

She has fold space and flow-walking

Going with Abeloth.

Isn't Abeloth like FTL?

Luke is faster than Palpatine after DE

Mace appears to wield 24+ ( dozens ) blades from the perspective of Anakin, who can see ships flying "at respectable fractions of light" and react to them. Mace sees the shadow as a blur.

Some information:-

Most powerful dark side master?

The Sith Emperor, history's most powerful dark side master, performed a ritual of incredible scope to consume the life energy of every being on his homeworld.

(SWTOR Encylopedia, Page 148)

They key word is "dark side master" here. Now hold old is Abeloth?

Sith Emperor had Abeloth like capabilities:

The Voice is the mouthpiece through which the Emperor delivers his orders. This possessed being sacrifices all consciousness to become a hollow vessel for the Emperor. Over the centuries, the Emperor has taken many Voices from young children to alien species. When the Voice speaks, it does so with the Emperor's cold, emotionless, and commanding tone. The Voice also wields the Emperor's incredible power and is capable of striking down anyone who displeases him. Those who converse with the Voice are overwhelmed with dread and unshakable obedience. To speak with the Voice is to speak with the Emperor himself.

The Emperor created his first Voice after the legendary Jedi names Revan attempted to assassinate him on Dromund Kaas. Though Revan's plot failed, he approached within striking distance of the Emperor. To guard against further vulnerability, the Emperor created the Voice to deliver his orders while distancing himself from the forces that conspired against him. Centuries later, this very safeguard would save the Emperor once more.

(SWTOR Encyclopedia, Page 163)

Sith Emperor could unleash insanely potent dark side powers:

During a violent tempest, Darth Lokess called a secret meeting of her eleven fellow Dark Council members. Under the cover of night, the Dark Council met and heard Darth Lokess describe a brilliant and daring plan to overthrow the Sith Emperor, end his relentless exile, and lead the Empire back to war against the Republic. An army of Sith under the command of Darth Lokess were stationed outside the meeting, ready to slay any Dark Council member who refused. But they all agreed to depose the Emperor.

It remains a mystery how the Emperor learned of his council's treachery. He allowed their plan to play out, but when they gathered to confront the Emperor, his punishment was swift and devastating. Eleven members of the Dark Council died in a sudden flash on the steps of the Citadel. The last member Darth Lokess, disappeared forever, though for some centuries some claimed her screams could be heard from the bowels of the Citadel.

A new council was immediately appointed to replace the traitors. The Emperor had made his point: his will was absolute, and none would oppose him. And though this was not the last time the council would defy the Emperor, his lesson would humble the Empire and its Sith leaders for centuries to come.

(SWTOR Encyclopedia, Page 156)

Originally posted by pencilcrayon
going to add something

1) Only those two present. No one's around to take over for either side.

She has fold space and flow-walking
Revan had fold space and Sith Lords serving under Vitiate had flow-walking. None of them could do anything to Vitiate.

---

Since Luke could ruin Abeloth bodies; Vitiate can do the same and possibly easier.

Question is; can Abeloth survive after all of her bodies are struck down?

Abeloth.

Abeloth is insanely powerful but her bodies are vulnerable in combat situations. So mindlessly siding with her isn't a wise decision.

Luke singlehandedly ruined some of her bodies; even though he was not as powerful. Yes, Abeloth could kill Luke too but wasted opportunity (PIS).

In contrast to Luke, Vitiate is like an entity and can survive and fight in ways that he cannot.

As powerful as Vitiate is, Abeloth is as close as it gets to a force god. And honestly, if you're a Celestial, you should win by default.

Originally posted by steveholt956
As powerful as Vitiate is, Abeloth is as close as it gets to a force god. And honestly, if you're a Celestial, you should win by default.
Celestials can survive and fight in ways that normal individuals cannot, but this is true for Vitiate as well, as per canon information.

Luke demonstrated that Celestials can be handled; he managed to ruin some of the Abeloth bodies by his own efforts. In constast, Vitiate is in better position to handle a threat like Abeloth.

Vitiate was also a godlike being:

Over 300 years ago, the great Jedi heroes Revan and Malak stumbled upon long-hidden Sith Empire's capital of Dromund Kaas, and its ruler - a mysterious, almost godlike avatar of the dark side. They argued briefly over whether to alert the Republic and Jedi Council, but Revan was already too consumed by arrogance and anger to consider the possibility of defeat. By the time Revan and Malak approached the Emperor in his throne room, they were already at the precipice of the dark side. It took only a fraction of the Emperor's loathsome power to complete their fall. The Jedi succumbed utterly to the Sith leader's domination and returned to the Republic to spark a new conflict: the Jedi Civil War.

(SWTOR Encyclopedia, Page 89)

Vitiate became so powerful that he could harness Galaxy-munching dark side power prior to him being stopped. He set in motion the process to consume the entire Galaxy and transform himself in to an omnipotent entity with unparalleled powers.

Of-course, this fight wouldn't end in few days; it might take much longer.

Legend, you're wrong here. First off, Vitiate's main advantage (mind domination), isn't going to work at all. Secondly, if he is going to use one of his tricks that he needs to prepare, that's not happening against Abeloth either. I don't see a way he wins.

Also, Luke managed to defeat ONE body of Abeloth. It took the combined might of the Grandmaster, Dark Lord of the Sith, Ben, Vestara, and a bunch of other Jedi, just to defeat ALL of her bodies. She's not unbeatable but she's as close as it gets.

Originally posted by steveholt956
Legend, you're wrong here.

Just here?

Originally posted by steveholt956
Also, Luke managed to defeat ONE body of Abeloth. It took the combined might of the Grandmaster, Dark Lord of the Sith, Ben, Vestara, and a bunch of other Jedi, just to defeat ALL of her bodies. She's not unbeatable but she's as close as it gets.

Yes. The fight Beyond Shadows against her main self was brutal, even with both Luke and Krayt working together, and even that wouldn't have been enough without the others hunting down bodies.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Just here?

I'm not really following the other one. Since I decided to engage in this one, I mentioned that he's wrong.

Originally posted by steveholt956
Legend, you're wrong here. First off, Vitiate's main advantage (mind domination), isn't going to work at all. Secondly, if he is going to use one of his tricks that he needs to prepare, that's not happening against Abeloth either. I don't see a way he wins.
Mind domination is not the only trick under his arsenal.

Point is about Abeloth's bodies being vulnerable; they are not indestructible or are they? I mean, almost every notable individual in the Galaxy managed to fight off her bodies. If it was just Luke then you would have a point.

Originally posted by steveholt956
Also, Luke managed to defeat ONE body of Abeloth. It took the combined might of the Grandmaster, Dark Lord of the Sith, Ben, Vestara, and a bunch of other Jedi, just to defeat ALL of her bodies. She's not unbeatable but she's as close as it gets.
And they all managed to defeat her bodies, right?

Vitiate have demonstrated the capability to kill a dozen prodigiously talented Force-users simultaneously; possibly could do better; he can definitely handle Abeloth's bodies. He isn't restricted on his use of TK and lot of other stuff or is he?

Yes, Vitiate's effectiveness may depend upon his level of preparation and setting.

I am not assuming that Vitiate will win in every encounter against Abeloth; victory depends upon the circumstances for both. However, Vitiate cannot be stopped until or unless his essence can be trapped in a void or something else. Therefore, Abeloth isn't winning this fight either but if Vitiate finds the dagger then?

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Just here?
Please shut up.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Mind domination is not the only trick under his arsenal.

Point is about Abeloth's bodies being vulnerable; they are not indestructible or are they? I mean, almost every notable individual in the Galaxy managed to fight off her bodies. If it was just Luke then you would have a point.


And they all managed to defeat her bodies, right?
You're missing the point. If it took around 8-10 force users(one of which is a grandmaster and the other is the DLOTS) to defeat Abeloth, what chance does Vitiate have 1 on 1?


1. You can't use that because we have no idea what it was, whether it required preparation, and whether it would work on a Celestial.


And Abeloth attacks as quickly as possible.


What exactly can Vitiate do against Abeloth? Even if I grant Vitiate victory over Abeloth, how does that guarantee that she doesn't hop into another body? Like I said, I don't see anyone winning a 1 on 1 encounter with Abeloth.

Originally posted by steveholt956
You're missing the point. If it took around 8-10 force users(one of which is a grandmaster and the other is the DLOTS) to defeat Abeloth, what chance does Vitiate have 1 on 1?
I understand but none of them are Sith Sorcerers like Vitiate or are they?

If this is WTF situation for Vitiate and he is up against multiple bodies simultaneously of Abeloth then he surely is in serious trouble, until or unless, he is in a gigantic building and collapses it over Abeloth, crushing her bodies in the process.

Also, Vitiate may simply run away from the fighting spot, wait somewhere to gather his power and then return; their are too many possibilities. Continue to read below.

Originally posted by steveholt956
1. You can't use that because we have no idea what it was, whether it required preparation, and whether it would work on a Celestial.
It can be considered for versus debates since it is a dark side ability of Vitiate; an unknown one to us but it is valid (the full extent of his abilities are not even known). Of-course, Vitiate may require sometime to gather such power but he is already siphoning energies from countless beings from across the Galaxy (in his story) to fuel his power; so he might gather such level of power lot quicker then we imagine.

Most importantly, Sith Sorcery works on anybody.

Originally posted by steveholt956
And Abeloth attacks as quickly as possible.
Same is true for Vitiate. Up against Revan, he continuously kept the Jedi preoccupied and upped his game with each passing moment. Against a much bigger threat; like the whole Dark Council; he unleashed a power of such a degree that he purged it in a single blow. He plans his moves according to the level of threat he is dealing with.

Vitiate is lot more powerful then he is given credit actually.

Originally posted by steveholt956
What exactly can Vitiate do against Abeloth? Even if I grant Vitiate victory over Abeloth, how does that guarantee that she doesn't hop into another body? Like I said, I don't see anyone winning a 1 on 1 encounter with Abeloth.
Vitiate can hop in to another body just like her (assuming that both have a pile of bodies stacked-up for themselves just in case). Haven't you read about "Voice of the Emperor" and/or spoilers in this thread?

Plus, their are several ways for Vitiate to ruin Abeloth's bodies. His own powers are extremely lethal.

I believe this fight is not going to end in a matter of minutes like most fights. This will be a struggle of epic proportions spanning a month or possibly more since both dark siders involved are insanely powerful with insane abilities.

Vitiate isn't beating Abeloth dude. I know you're all up in Vitiates grill but you're getting a bit too into it. Like a stray hotdog that rolled down there. And now its too much trouble to fish out with the tongs. So you're just watching it crack and turn black. Just turn the fire off man. Shits getting embarrassing yo.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I understand but none of them are Sith Sorcerers like Vitiate or are they?
What does this even mean? How are you going to quantify that statement? 8-10 force users, 1 grand master and son of the chosen one, one dark lord of the sith, and it took the combined might of them all.


I don't see Abeloth looking up at a building as it falls on her.


Vitiate can't run away from Abeloth. She warps from point A to point B. There's nowhere he's going to be able to go.



But you don't know what "it" is. You wouldn't be able to prove that he could perform it without preparation, or if it would even be successful.


Not really true. The rules that apply for normal beings do not apply for Abeloth.



Be that as it may, he is not a Celestial.


No, he can't just "hop" into another body. Since he uses transfer essences, it takes some time for him to leave the current body and go into another one, whereas Abeloth can do it instantly, with many bodies.

None that you have mentioned that would be able to work on Abeloth I'm afraid.

And no Legend, I don't read your spoilers because I'm fairly certain I've beaten TOR many more times than you with many different classes.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Vitiate can hop in to another body just like her. Haven't you read about "Voice of the Emperor" and/or spoilers in this thread?

You do realize that Abeloth basically eats souls, yes?

And unlike Vitiate some massive ritual isn't needed.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
If this is WTF situation for Vitiate and he is up against multiple bodies simultaneously of Abeloth then he surely is in serious trouble

Although it occurs to me that Vitiate can create multiple bodies too.


Ohhhhhhh yeeeeeeeeah.

What, shitty illusions that get killed by astromech droids?

.......



It was only stunned. crackers

I do remember that Vitaite once got trapped in a body by a powerful dark-side entity for awhile.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Vitiate isn't beating Abeloth dude. I know you're all up in Vitiates grill but you're getting a bit too into it. Like a stray hotdog that rolled down there. And now its too much trouble to fish out with the tongs. So you're just watching it crack and turn black. Just turn the fire off man. Shits getting embarrassing yo.
Waa?

I like challenging taboos.

Originally posted by steveholt956
What does this even mean? How are you going to quantify that statement? 8-10 force users, 1 grand master and son of the chosen one, one dark lord of the sith, and it took the combined might of them all.
1. Sith sorcery represents the epitome of dark side practices; it makes impossible possible.

2. All of those Force-users fought different bodies of Abeloth, no?

If you perceive this fight in the manner that it would be like typical clashes then this would be wrong. This fight is much bigger and tedious for both parties involved.

Originally posted by steveholt956
I don't see Abeloth looking up at a building as it falls on her.
Well, she isn't infallible in her senses or reactions.

Originally posted by steveholt956
Vitiate can't run away from Abeloth. She warps from point A to point B. There's nowhere he's going to be able to go.
Ok! Vitiate himself have galactic reach with his powers (Krayt is a joke in comparison).

Originally posted by steveholt956
But you don't know what "it" is. You wouldn't be able to prove that he could perform it without preparation, or if it would even be successful.
Given its lethality factor; purging entire Dark Council (which is incredible amount of power) in a single blow, it might be a Sith Sorcery based application which bypasses conventional defenses. Abeloth isn't very good at defending herself and this is her weakness.

I can provide information which clearly reveals how vulnerable her bodies are.

Originally posted by steveholt956
Not really true. The rules that apply for normal beings do not apply for Abeloth.

Be that as it may, he is not a Celestial.
Celestial is just a title; their are no rules for them. Celestials were originally an ancient civilization of extremely powerful Force-users.

In-fact, every Celestial known to us perished one way or other.

Originally posted by steveholt956
No, he can't just "hop" into another body. Since he uses transfer essences, it takes some time for him to leave the current body and go into another one, whereas Abeloth can do it instantly, with many bodies.
Transfer essence works quicker then you think. A reasonable supply of bodies (scattered in different locations) will make it possible for Vitiate to fight Abeloth effectively. Abeloth might be faster in this aspect but I don't see any advantage of this instead of her being ready for fight relatively quicker unless we are assuming that they have bodies stored in the same compound.

Originally posted by steveholt956
None that you have mentioned that would be able to work on Abeloth I'm afraid.
Why not?

Sith powers work on her. In-fact, her bodies can be ruined by external threats. Keep in mind that she is not very capable at defending herself from external threats; she is just hard to defeat.

Also, loosing lot of bodies is not good for both. This weakens them or slows their recuperation processes. In case of Abeloth, the loss of her main body or something brought her near death point.

Originally posted by steveholt956
And no Legend, I don't read your spoilers because I'm fairly certain I've beaten TOR many more times than you with many different classes.
You have this book?

http://www.amazon.com/Star-Wars-The-Republic-Encyclopedia/dp/0756698391

I have it; and it reveals lot more about Vitiate then even the game does.

Originally posted by ares834
You do realize that Abeloth basically eats souls, yes?

And unlike Vitiate some massive ritual isn't needed.
Proof of this?

Why didn't she eat souls of opponents who took her down?

Originally posted by ares834
What, shitty illusions that get killed by astromech droids?
Illusions are not potent threats; they are created to fool the enemies.

However, it is difficult to perform such a feat with own power.

It's more than just a title- they're beings who've gotten power from the Font of Power or the Pool of Knowledge.

And the power all of them shows is pretty crazy.




She was draining both Luke and Krayt during the fight, iirc.

They just took her down before it could be completed.

(And those two could take Vitaite too)

Originally posted by Q99
It's more than just a title- they're beings who've gotten power from the Font of Power or the Pool of Knowledge.

And the power all of them shows is pretty crazy.
I understand but they are still essentially Force-users and vulnerable just like others. They are harder to defeat then majority.

Originally posted by Q99
She was draining both Luke and Krayt during the fight, iirc.

They just took her down before it could be completed.
Krayt was draining her in response?

Also, Vitiate can drain all of her bodies simultaneously to fuel his power and he is extremely proficient in this aspect. He is ya'know, daddy of Krayt.

Originally posted by Q99
(And those two could take Vitaite too)
In conventional battle, yes. However, Vitiate is unparalleled Sith Sorcerer and he can destroy any opponent with such talent. Even in the game, he can actually one-shot HoT.

Originally posted by Q99
I do remember that Vitaite once got trapped in a body by a powerful dark-side entity for awhile. Sel Makor was a planet wide entity and it only worked because Vitiate entered the Nightmare Lands

Albeit a planet wide entity that's killed by a single Voss soldier.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Albeit a planet wide entity that's killed by a single Voss soldier.
What? how?

Nonetheless, Sel Makor also demonstrated Abeloth like capabilities; albeit being more vulnerable then her. So power was not an issue for her; her form was more vulnerable.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Krayt was draining her in response?

Luke was holding, Krayt was draining, and both of them were taking drain for doing so.

Without Luke restraining, Abeloth could've done a lot more.



Hm, they do have some similarities, don't they?


Still, Krayt remembered to bring a Luke along.

If this was, like Vitiate and a major Jedi I'm sure he could win, but he's less likely to invite Satele or Tython to come with to help him out.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
What? how?

Nonetheless, Sel Makor also demonstrated Abeloth like capabilities; albeit being more vulnerable then her. So power was not an issue for her; her form was more vulnerable.

In the Jedi Knight storyline a Voss Commando called Tala-Reh who's helping you sacrifices herself to vanquish him.

Either that or you get to prove that the Voss Mystics are full of shit and backstab them for UNLIIIIMITED POWEEEEER!

Haha I was a dark jedi knight so I sacrificed that chick

Originally posted by Q99
Luke was holding, Krayt was draining, and both of them were taking drain for doing so.
They formed a nice loop.

Regardless, Vitiate is very good at defending himself. He survived for over a thousand years (among the Sith nonetheless) for some good reasons. He became vulnerable only when he invested his powers on galactic scale to perform a ritual with which would consume such a big cosmic structure; it was at this point when he was exploited (thanks to that idiot Lord Scourge).

Scourge led to downfall of two legends; Revan and Vitiate (not bad for a clown like him). No wonder, the Force works in mysterious ways.

Originally posted by Q99
Hm, they do have some similarities, don't they?

Originally posted by Nephthys
In the Jedi Knight storyline a Voss Commando called Tala-Reh who's helping you sacrifices herself to vanquish him.

Either that or you get to prove that the Voss Mystics are full of shit and backstab them for UNLIIIIMITED POWEEEEER!
Hey you! Shoo! Shoo!
Still, Krayt remembered to bring a Luke along.

If this was, like Vitiate and a major Jedi I'm sure he could win, but he's less likely to invite Satele or Tython to come with to help him out.


He actually doesn't needs company for this job; his own power is too enormous.

He was simultaneously siphoning energies from souls of countless life forms he killed on Nathema (he trapped all of these souls with his powers), from many individuals on Dromund Kaas and also from Revan from another far away location. I mean, come on.

Originally posted by steveholt956
Haha I was a dark jedi knight so I sacrificed that chick

Hell yes dark side Jedi for the win!

I also unleashed the The World Razer. Sure the douche only gave me some crappy gloves that I pawned immediately, but thats totally worth letting a planet/star-eating monster free in a hundred years! I'll be long dead by then.

Yea I was not happy with the prize for unleashing the World Razer, and the loser prize Sel Makor gave me on Ilum.

What does Sel Makor give you?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Hell yes dark side Jedi for the win!

I also unleashed the The World Razer. Sure the douche only gave me some crappy gloves that I pawned immediately, but thats totally worth letting a planet/star-eating monster free in a hundred years! I'll be long dead by then.
This planet sounds like one big experimental mess.

Originally posted by Nephthys
What does Sel Makor give you?
A kiss.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
This planet sounds like one big experimental mess.

The entire planet of Belsavis was converted into a prison to contain the World Razor. You want to see a real star wars heavy weight read up on this dude:

'Almost nothing is known of the ancient being known as the World Razer. No one has seen or spoken to the creature for thousands of years; the Rakata's cryptic warnings suggest the World Razer is Belsavis's oldest prisoner, and that the prison was first constructed to hold the terrible entity whose hunger consumed a thousand worlds.

According to the Rakata inscriptions in the Tomb, it took the combined might of the Infinite Empire to subdue the World Razer, and an entire planet to contain its fury. If such a creature were ever released, its rage might very well shatter the galaxy.'

Its basically the most powerful thing in Star Wars so far.

Originally posted by Nephthys
The entire planet of Belsavis was converted into a prison to contain the World Razor. You want to see a real star wars heavy weight read up on this dude:

'Almost nothing is known of the ancient being known as the World Razer. No one has seen or spoken to the creature for thousands of years; the Rakata's cryptic warnings suggest the World Razer is Belsavis's oldest prisoner, and that the prison was first constructed to hold the terrible entity whose hunger consumed a thousand worlds.

According to the Rakata inscriptions in the Tomb, it took the combined might of the Infinite Empire to subdue the World Razer, and an entire planet to contain its fury. If such a creature were ever released, its rage might very well shatter the galaxy.'

Its basically the most powerful thing in Star Wars so far.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-G1yDS4Q1fjk/UAdEEZkddNI/AAAAAAAAERw/S1snEZSVmw0/s1600/shocked_face.gif

Theres also Soa, The Infernal One. A giant Rakata who was powerful enough to be a threat to the whole galaxy. And either the Republic or Empire heroes defeated him.

More proof that the Swtor protagonists are truly among the elite.

Soa was a god. I loved that flashpoint

Originally posted by Nephthys
Theres also Soa, The Infernal One. A giant Rakata who was powerful enough to be a threat to the whole galaxy. And either the Republic or Empire heroes defeated him.

More proof that the Swtor protagonists are truly among the elite.
Man, what else is in TOR era...

Yeah, it took an entire army to beat him and even then the Rakata couldn't actually kill him*. The guys a beast.



* But the Swtor protags could. excellent

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yeah, it took an entire army to beat him and even then the Rakata couldn't actually kill him*. The guys a beast.



* But the Swtor protags could. excellent
Anything is possible in TOR era; it is filled with such beings.

Couldn't Abeloth just tentacle rape the Emperor? What form of defense does he have to offer against those tentacles?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yeah, it took an entire army to beat him and even then the Rakata couldn't actually kill him*. The guys a beast.



* But the Swtor protags could. excellent

Wasn't it more than just the four of them?

Originally posted by Nephthys
The entire planet of Belsavis was converted into a prison to contain the World Razor. You want to see a real star wars heavy weight read up on this dude:

'Almost nothing is known of the ancient being known as the World Razer. No one has seen or spoken to the creature for thousands of years; the Rakata's cryptic warnings suggest the World Razer is Belsavis's oldest prisoner, and that the prison was first constructed to hold the terrible entity whose hunger consumed a thousand worlds.

According to the Rakata inscriptions in the Tomb, it took the combined might of the Infinite Empire to subdue the World Razer, and an entire planet to contain its fury. If such a creature were ever released, its rage might very well shatter the galaxy.'

Its basically the most powerful thing in Star Wars so far.

One measly planet, heh. That's weak sauce. The Maw was created to contain Abeloth. Now that's a damn impressive prison.

Originally posted by pencilcrayon
Couldn't Abeloth just tentacle rape the Emperor? What form of defense does he have to offer against those tentacles?
It is not so easy; Sith Emperor have extraordinary defensive capabilities. Nothing less then a lightsaber was a threat to him in close range combat. Even in vulnerable condition, it took two lightsaber hits to bring him down. Last time I checked, Abeloth isn't an expert swordsman.

Sith Emperor is a master of Sith Sorcery; dark side powers that cannot be conventionally defended against. This is more then enough to handle Abeloth's bodies.

Yes, if Abeloth gets hold of Sith Emperor, then she have a chance but the latter is immortal; he will acquire another avatar and come back.

Abeloth can kill Vitate with a scream...


Then she eats his soul.

Seriously, Vitiate has no chance here at all.

Originally posted by ares834
Abeloth can kill Vitate with a scream...


Then she eats his soul.

Seriously, Vitiate has no chance here at all.
Vitiate is among the most powerful dark side masters of the mythos. He once purged an entire Dark Council with a single blow in combat situation. Do not underestimate his Sith Sorcery skills.

Abeloth is the most powerful dark side master of the mythos. She once destroyed an entire city of Sith with a single scream. Do not underestimate her raw power.

Dude, you sounded just like SWL there. Creepy.

Originally posted by ares834
Wasn't it more than just the four of them?



One measly planet, heh. That's weak sauce. The Maw was created to contain Abeloth. Now that's a damn impressive prison.

The Flashpoint is for 8 to 16 players, but theres only 4 actual characters in canon on either faction so unless the Republic and Empire teamed up it was probably a 4 man team.

Abeloths a b*tch compared to this guy. He would annihilate her.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Abeloths a b*tch compared to this guy. He would annihilate her.

Prove it.

The fight starts and he eats the planet she's standing on.

http://www.bibliobabes.ca/uploads/8/2/8/0/8280440/8340053_orig.gif

She screams and he dies?

She destroyed a city.

He destroys planets.

I wonder which is bigger?

http://images.sodahead.com/polls/001424495/durr_answer_2_xlarge.jpeg

Except she did it with a scream and you haven't told us how he killed planets.

Would Palpatine's force storm have any affect on Abeloth?

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Except she did it with a scream and you haven't told us how he killed planets.

He eats them.

Stars too. He is as far above her as we are above the amoeba.

Proof? And how quickly does he eat them? And is it born from his own power or is it a ritualistic endeavor?

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Would Palpatine's force storm have any affect on Abeloth?

Prolly?

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Proof? And how quickly does he eat them? And is it born from his own power or is it a ritualistic endeavor?

He ****ing eats them. It clearly says that his 'hunger consumed a thousand worlds.'

And doesn't give any mention to the length of time this took or the possibility that rituals were used, a la Vitiate.

This is inadmissible without proof.

You're being stupid.

Not at all.

As usual, you want to wank to certain characters and certain eras. As usual, I'm preventing you from doing so.

You play on my terms or you don't play at all.

Well, if we are treating hearsay as fact, then Abeloth can destroy the galaxy. That's what the Thuruht were claiming.

It isn't hearsay, the codex states it.

No, the codex simply informs the player of the hearsay. What you provided never referred to it as fact.

The hearsay is that its the oldest inmate and that the prison was built to house it, not that its hunger consumed a thousand worlds. This is supported by a Rakatan seer telling you that it will consume the galaxy if its let out as well as records naming it as a devourer of worlds.

Originally posted by Nephthys
It isn't hearsay, the codex states it.

The codex informs us of some cryptic Rakatan message... ergo hearsay.

Originally posted by Nephthys
The hearsay is that its the oldest inmate and that the prison was built to house it, not that its hunger consumed a thousand worlds.

No.

Originally posted by Nephthys
This is supported by a Rakatan seer telling you that it will consume the galaxy

If we took the word of every "seer" in Star Wars as the gospel, we'd be in quite a kerfuffle.

Originally posted by Nephthys
if its let out as well as records naming it as a devourer of worlds.

Yes, and "records" also claimed Jesus could walk on water, heal the sick, and exorcise demons. Guess you should consider spiritual realignment real quick since ancient historical "records" are infallible.

Abeloth is a crappy villain anyway. I don't know why you're so butthurt about a Swtor character eclipsing her in power and accomplishments.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Abeloth is a crappy villain anyway.

No argument here.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I don't know why you're so butthurt about a Swtor character eclipsing her in power and accomplishments.

I might be butthurt if it were true. Since it's clearly not, my bum can enjoy its serenity.

So to sum up: The World Razer consumed a thousand worlds, eats stars, it took the combined might of the Infinite Empire to subdue it and if it got loose its rage might very well shatter the galaxy and according to Failsafe 'A thousand planets burn. A hundred stars wither and collapse. The World Razer consumes all.'

So pretty much the top dog of Star Wars. Barring Lotek'k who comes from another dimension or something.

To sum it up: you're TOR-wanking (...again) and your entire opinion is contingent on purple prose from ancient, questionable sources.

Tune in next week for Neph's spiritual conversion. Can't wait to see what he makes of this Jesus Christ guy!

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Prolly?


So Palpatine may be the only force user who can singlehandedly destroy Abeloth as long as he's not on the same planet?

Just say yes.

Nah, not really. I think Abeloth would wreck the Emperor's shit.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Nah, not really. I think Abeloth would wreck the Emperor's shit.


I wouldn't know. I don't know of most her capabilities.

But if he destroys the planet she is on before she can escape it, how will she survive.

Sidious can't destroy planets, only destroy their surfaces last I checked.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
To sum it up: you're TOR-wanking (...again) and your entire opinion is contingent on purple prose from ancient, questionable sources.

Tune in next week for Neph's spiritual conversion. Can't wait to see what he makes of this Jesus Christ guy!

Your allusion to Jesus is pointless since his stories have been told over millennia so it's entirely possible to be heavily exaggerated. No-one has seen the World Razer for thousands of years and the records of his power are from the Rakata who fought with him as well as etched into the walls of his prison. Furthermore Failsafe (who accurately saw the Esh-ka trying to free it despite being trapped in a computer and whose people looked him away for seeing the past and future) also says it eats planets and suns and will destroy the galaxy if released.

The codex also supports this by confirming he ate a thousand worlds and saying that if he was released, he might very well shatter the galaxy.

Do you actually believe this crap you're saying or is this another of your ****ing lessons, because I spent all day painting in the sun and I'm seriously not in the mood.

That's where we get into the dilemma of feats vs. accolades.

Besides her whole 'sploding an entire city of Sith thing, Abeloth is not necessarily the character with the best feats. We have confirmed planet-busters like Palpatine, Nihilus, ritual!Vitiate, etc.

But the Anchorites of Mortis are excellent examples of this. According to narration and supplementary texts, they are powerful on a level beyond Jedi and Sith. Yet in terms of highly destructive feats, they don't actually demonstrate anything as remotely impressive as Palpatine's Force storm or whatever.

But they are clearly intended to be divine beings while he, at best, is an eldritch aberration. And Abeloth, if you believe the legends, cowed the Son and the Daughter together.

I think it's best to have a compromise, look at feats but also how they fit into the greater context and their accolades.

Except that the gospels about Jesus weren't written thousands of years after his existence. In many cases, their proximity to the figure were quite credible. Doesn't mean that what they wrote isn't total bull.

Likewise, the fact that what the Rakatan wrote is "on record" doesn't mean anything.



So we're back to purple prose and ambiguous context: Does it require a ritual, is it at whim?

You rejected Dooku's endorsement of Sidious as a black hole of the Force on similar grounds. I'm just holding your feet to the fire you started Neph, don't get pissy with me that it hurts.



Hearsay, purple prose, and ambiguous context.



This is very, incredibly important so I urge you to read carefully: I don't care that you're not in the mood. Not one iota. If you're "not in the mood," don't read or respond.

Fine, **** you too.

You know I love you.

Don't know what you just said since you're on Ignore now.

Wow, you were right, this is much more relaxing.

lol ouch

Originally posted by The_Tempest
That's where we get into the dilemma of feats vs. accolades.

Besides her whole 'sploding an entire city of Sith thing, Abeloth is not necessarily the character with the best feats. We have confirmed planet-busters like Palpatine, Nihilus, ritual!Vitiate, etc.

But the Anchorites of Mortis are excellent examples of this. According to narration and supplementary texts, they are powerful on a level beyond Jedi and Sith. Yet in terms of highly destructive feats, they don't actually demonstrate anything as remotely impressive as Palpatine's Force storm or whatever.

But they are clearly intended to be divine beings while he, at best, is an eldritch aberration. And Abeloth, if you believe the legends, cowed the Son and the Daughter together.

I think it's best to have a compromise, look at feats but also how they fit into the greater context and their accolades.


Yeah, I don't believe Palpatine stands a chance against her while in her direct presence because of the fact that she is up there in power with the likes of Anchorites on Mortis. That's why I said if Palpatine was not on the same planet.

For example, if Dooku and Mother Talzin were to fight face to face, I think Dooku would handle her, based on his accolades, his feats, and the fact that she didn't attempt to attack him while in his presence. But yet she was easily able to overpower him with powers he had no defense against while she was not in his direct presence.

An offworld Sidious killing an unsuspecting Abeloth? That's an interesting notion that could be further explored, I suppose.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Yeah, I don't believe Palpatine stands a chance against her while in her direct presence because of the fact that she is up there in power with the likes of Anchorites on Mortis. That's why I said if Palpatine was not on the same planet.

For example, if Dooku and Mother Talzin were to fight face to face, I think Dooku would handle her, based on his accolades, his feats, and the fact that she didn't attempt to attack him while in his presence. But yet she was easily able to overpower him with powers he had no defense against while she was not in his direct presence.

Do you think Dooku could deal with

http://www.galacticbinder.com/images/news/mother-talzin.jpg

?

Most likely. Girl did run from Grievous, after all.

Forgot I am being ignored, my bad.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Do you think Dooku could deal with

http://www.galacticbinder.com/images/news/mother-talzin.jpg

?


Yeah, unless that bubble can shield TK. And Dooku can block lightning with his hands or lightsaber.

There's also the fact that she planned on killing Dooku, yet she didn't seem too confident in doing so in person. And then there's also the fact that she ran from Grievous, like Tempest said.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
So Palpatine may be the only force user who can singlehandedly destroy Abeloth as long as he's not on the same planet?

Just say yes.

Well Palpatine isn't alone in being able to summon Force Storms. Freedon Nadd is another confirmed Force User who could do it.

Originally posted by noitseuq
Well Palpatine isn't alone in being able to summon Force Storms. Freedon Nadd is another confirmed Force User who could do it.


When has he used it? How did he use it? And to what extent.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Yeah, unless that bubble can shield TK. And Dooku can block lightning with his hands or lightsaber.

There's also the fact that she planned on killing Dooku, yet she didn't seem too confident in doing so in person. And then there's also the fact that she ran from Grievous, like Tempest said.

Well it blocked blasterfire so I wouldn't rule it out. Plus that lightning was chewing through droids.

I see your point however.

Details unknown but by its very nature it destroys the surfaces of planets (it's stated to do so in the same source that credits Nadd with the ability). He's confirmed to be able to use it in the TotJ Companion.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Well it blocked blasterfire so I wouldn't rule it out. Plus that lightning was chewing through droids.

I see your point however.


Obi Wan has ragdolled droids that have shields which can block blasterfire with TK.



Originally posted by noitseuq
Details unknown but by its very nature it destroys the surfaces of planets (it's stated to do so in the same source that credits Nadd with the ability). He's confirmed to be able to use it in the TotJ Companion.


Has he destroyed surfaces of worlds with them? Does he have the same amount of control over them as Palpatine does? And for all I know, it could require him hours of meditation or an amulet.

Need details.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Obi Wan has ragdolled droids that have shields with can block blasterfire.

Those shields aren't made of the Force though.

If we afford Palatine the benefit of being offworld surely we can afford Nadd the benefit of preparation? The point is that he can use the power to the same devastating effect that Palpatine can be said to, and as such he poses the same potential threat to a being like Abeloth.

Abeloth - 12 times more powerful than a Skywalker
V.S
Vitiate - Got beaten by a lone Jedi

HMMMM...

Actually the real quote is that she's 12 times 'stronger' than him, which is why he couldn't win when wrestling with her. The context obviously indicates its referring to physical strength.

"The cartilage began to give. He pushed back with the Force, reinforcing his
larynx and trying to throw her off.
It was no good. Abeloth had a dozen times the Force strength Luke had..."

That's 12 times stronger in the Force than a Skywalker

Gid, don't be a poop. The context of a galaxy-level threat being established by archaeological evidence (and the Codex, which is maybe OOU?) is much different from the black-hole passage, which calls Kenobi a "sunny meadow" in the next paragraph.

Freedon Nadd knows the Force Storm? Anyways Abeloth was contained by the Maw which is dozens of blackholes. This says a lot about Abeloth's durability. Also according to the Father if the Son and Daughter fought they would have destroyed the entire Universe.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Abeloth - 12 times more powerful than a Skywalker
V.S
Vitiate - Got beaten by a lone Jedi

HMMMM...
Vitiate was taken down during his most vulnerable point. He still survived because he is immortal.

Not long ago, Vitiate easily overwhelmed a whole Jedi Strike Team (including HoT) in single combat. This encounter took place in a neutral setting and Vitiate wasn't vulnerable during this time.

So?

Point is that Vitiate's greatest talent is his Sith Sorcery skills; Sith Sorcery is a pathway to accomplish the impossible.

Most importantly, Abeloth is not invincible either; her bodies are vulnerable.

Originally posted by ares834
Abeloth is the most powerful dark side master of the mythos.
No proof of this.

Abeloth predates Vitiate, right? Well, a canon book asserts that Vitiate is the most powerful dark side master in history.

Originally posted by ares834
She once destroyed an entire city of Sith with a single scream. Do not underestimate her raw power.
Vitiate once absorbed dark side power of (more then) planetary proportions (which vaporized all other life forms in its path and eat the Force itself around the planet). Do not underestimate his raw power either.

Don't be ridiculous. Abeloth and the Ones aren't part of Jedi/Sith/Light Side/Dark Side comparisons in books because they're considered Gods/Celestials and are therefore superior.

Originally posted by pencilcrayon
"The cartilage began to give. He pushed back with the Force, reinforcing his
larynx and trying to throw her off.
It was no good. Abeloth had a dozen times the Force strength Luke had..."

That's 12 times stronger in the Force than a Skywalker

Or a dozen times better at Force strength.

Originally posted by The Merchant
Freedon Nadd knows the Force Storm? Anyways Abeloth was contained by the Maw which is dozens of blackholes. This says a lot about Abeloth's durability. Also according to the Father if the Son and Daughter fought they would have destroyed the entire Universe.

Wasn't there a planet in the Maw too? Was it affected at all by the blackholes?

Originally posted by DudleyMoo23
Don't be ridiculous. Abeloth and the Ones aren't part of Jedi/Sith/Light Side/Dark Side comparisons in books because they're considered Gods/Celestials and are therefore superior.
Celestials were basically an ancient race of extremely powerful Force-users.

Jedi and Sith are just philosophies; Force-users can choose to abandon or follow these philosophies.

Vitiate was also godlike avatar of the dark side.

Yes, Celestials were basically an ancient race of extremely powerful Force-users. Except I wouldn't use the term "race" as much as "entities" because they decided to have some human form for everyone's benefit.

And while Vitiate was a godlike avatar of the dark side, the Celestials WERE Gods.

Originally posted by The_Tempest

By archaeological evidence, you mean the vague and unsubstantiated claims from an ancient civilizations that have yet to be corroborated?



The Codex, as established, merely relays the legend. Nowhere does it establish the legend as truth.
This is a fundamental difference between the ways we enjoy fiction. I think that it has to do with suspension of disbelief. When watching Indiana Jones, I didn't think "oh man, all those stories about the Ark are going to be proven wrong if there are any Nazi faces left unmelted." Instead, I'm focused on what they say about the Ark: It is established as a potential army-killer. The fact that it kills only a few dozen people on screen does not mean that I am using a "no-limits" fallacy if I say that the Ark would singlehandedly turn the tide of Helm's Deep (for example).

The level of confirmation that you seem to ask for is simply not available in fiction media outside of RPG systems that offer a method of inter-era comparison. "Existential threat from a bygone age" is a common trope in fiction; invoking that trope is enough, for me, to give a ballpark estimate of the severity of the threat. No editor is going to allow page-space for a thorough Archaeological inquiry (Tim Zahn notwithstanding).

Another example: In Fable, Jack of Blades is established as an eldritch abomination from beyond the edge of the world. If his plan goes through, the implication is extinction. So he is a potential world-ender, despite the lack of specifics about his origins and the extent of his abilities.



I think I have actually used the black-hole quote, but only within the context of relative attitudes and demeanors. The important facet of this particular quote is the way that the descriptions all reference the characters' intrinsic properties. A basic block of Kenobi's personality is his tranquil Jedi demeanor. It is not all that much of a stretch to interpret that line, and the passage as a whole, as a characterization rather than a power-meter.

Meanwhile, the quotes against which you have fought so consistently (e.g. N.'s Ravager accolade, or this destroyer business) are almost always extreme accounts of physical actions. So while Sidious is described as a black hole of the Force, N. is described as accomplishing some magnificent application of Joules. That is less easily discarded as hyperbole, because it is a specific thing that actually happened.

(And tossing out 2/3 of the available information about non-movie eras just because we don't let you use 1/1000th of Sidious's accolades is mad churlish, broseph.)


Edit: Palpatine's unrivaled dominance w/r/t political power is ambiguous in its application to combat in the same way that N.'s telekinetic power isn't.

Lol @ Tempest. I guess we should be accepting Revan as the Heart of the Force next.

I mean, considering Kreia is actually blind and can only see through Force Sight, its of an less obvious metaphor than Dooku's inane imaginings.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Lol @ Tempest. I guess we should be accepting Revan as the Heart of the Force next.

I mean, considering Kreia is actually blind and can only see through Force Sight, its of an less obvious metaphor than Dooku's inane imaginings.
You are not helping. The natural conclusion of this has Gid accepting expert testimony on Force matters. Do you know how much that helps me for the next N. thread?
(SO much.)

Anyway, it is poor form to snipe from the sidelines when one of your targets is on ignore. What if you miss him and shoot me instead? You know I always play safe and I am not taking the risk of you shooting all over the place.

(This is a condom joke. The joke is condoms.)

I'm sorry if I'm messing up some big plan but I don't care what he accepts or not.

His argument is too weak for me to miss. These aren't about 'vague and unsubstantiated claims', these are 'Rakata inscriptions' in the actual tomb. Does he think the Rakata decided to write fan fiction about it on the walls of its prison as they were building it?

Originally posted by Nephthys
I'm sorry if I'm messing up some big plan but I don't care what he accepts or not.

His argument is too weak for me to miss. These aren't about 'vague and unsubstantiated claims', these are 'Rakata inscriptions' in the actual tomb. Does he think the Rakata decided to write fan fiction about it on the walls of its prison?

As painful as it is for me (and it is really painful, like taking a huge dump painful), I have to agree with DE here. Because they are Rakata inscriptions, they represent actual history of their civilization. Unless it says something like "legends say" or "it is said", I think it should be taken as fact because as DE says, the rakata aren't known for writing homosexual erotic fiction.

Neph, there is no plan. I just wanted to make a condoms joke.
DS, I'm sure we can find a way to loosen you up; pooping shouldn't hurt like that...

Thank you DS. This is evidence from the people who fought and imprisoned it. Their words should be accepted as basically being first hand testimonials as to its capabilities.

Then the Kiliks' word should be taken as fact as well, yes? After all, they fought Abeloth a few times before.

I don't know anything about what they said or when it was said so who knows.

Originally posted by ares834
Then the Kiliks' word should be taken as fact as well, yes? After all, they fought Abeloth a few times before.

Why wouldn't it be taken as fact?

Originally posted by Nephthys
I don't know anything about what they said or when it was said so who knows.

That if she were freed she would bring ruin and chaos to the galaxy, and that the galaxy itself could perish. And that she owned the Son and Daughter.

Originally posted by ares834
That if she were freed she would bring ruin and chaos to the galaxy, and that the galaxy itself could perish. And that she owned the Son and Daughter.

Since the Killiks were one of the slaves of the Celestials, their word should be given a lot of weight. The only flaw I can see with this is that it's been like 30,000 years and therefore, it's not a first hand account.

Again I don't know enough about where this info is coming from to say if its credible. The Rakatan inscriptions are from the people who fought and imprisoned it (not the race, the actual people who fought it), inscribed into the walls of the prison that they built for it, which is why I find it highly credible.

Where are these claims coming from?

Some are coming from murals others from the Killiks themselves.

In Apocalypse, the claims are coming from the Killiks.

Well if Dudley's right about it being 30,000 years later and not being a first hand account then theres good reason to be a bit skeptical about it. I mean, if someone started talking about events that happened that long ago in real life without anything supporting it we wouldn't be so quick to believe him, would we?

As I said, a large amount of it is from ancient Killik murals. Seems just as trustworthy as the Rakatan inscriptions.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Or a dozen times better at Force strength.

Luke was using the force for a push effect, but she's countering him.

Why is Nephthys a pussy who puts people on ignore and insults them, with them having no means of shooting back?

Seems like something a fat girlyman would do.

I didn't insult him, merely laughed at him.

Tempest is right, you guys are critical hippos.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Tempest is right,

I knew I liked you for a reason.

I miss Zampano.

Also Abeloth one-shots.

M8s, Vitiate is da must powahfull mastar of da Dank Side since, like, forevah. He use ritualz and nexuseses in combat wit eeeeassseee. He destroyed a bunch of ships and lived for 4evar. Abeloths bodies are so vulnerable in da combats and Vitiate can live as a phantom(of the Opera)and possess her SOUL.
He would stomp her.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
I miss Zampano.

Also Abeloth one-shots.
She couldn't one-shot Darth Krayt and you think she will one-shot Valkorion. Another example of your questionable beliefs.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
She couldn't one-shot Darth Krayt

Her energies were split, she was facing Luke + Krayt together, and she wasn't anywhere near full power.



Full power Abeloth was a threat to the Mortis Anchorites, who, BTW, never bothered to do anything about Valkorion. Vitiate isn't anywhere near her level.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Her energies were split, she was facing Luke + Krayt together, and she wasn't anywhere near full power.
You think that I have not read that fight?

She struck Darth Krayt first.

And she was strongest in the realm of Beyond Shadows.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Full power Abeloth was a threat to the Mortis Anchorites, who, BTW, never bothered to do anything about Valkorion. Vitiate isn't anywhere near her level.
That is actually good evidence that The Ones are hyped beyond measure.

Vitiate have much greater accolade of being "supremely powerful."

Or was that Thanaton? Hmm.

^ True.

Nobody can match Vitiate's much hype in encyclopedic realities.

When Abeloth fought Krayt, she was not only already drained and injured, but it was an avatar that didn't even have half her real power. Not to mention her mind was split because several of her weaker avatars kept being killed across the galaxy, hindering her further, and she had to constantly keep an eye on Luke.

But lets just forget all of these circumstances and say: Valkorion stomps.

Originally posted by MythLord
When Abeloth fought Krayt, she was not only already drained and injured, but it was an avatar that didn't even have half her real power. Not to mention her mind was split because several of her weaker avatars kept being killed across the galaxy, hindering her further, and she had to constantly keep an eye on Luke.

But lets just forget all of these circumstances and say: Valkorion stomps.
You got it all wrong.

Abeloth was at her strongest during the events of Apocalypse. She was using the populace of Coruscant as a reservoir of energy to fuel her power and was able to manifest as several avatars with added strength. However, her shortcoming was that even if one avatar was harmed, it impacted her on the whole. However, her most powerful avatar was the one that confronted Luke Skywalker and Darth Krayt in the realm of Beyond Shadows. And only Darth Krayt used Force Drain powers against her.

Read the novel before coming to a thread and make claims about Abeloth.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You got it all wrong.

Abeloth was at her strongest during the events of Apocalypse. She was using populace of Coruscant as a reservoir of energy to fuel her power and was able to manifest as several avatars in this manner. However, her shortcoming was that even if one avatar was harmed, it impacted her on the whole. However, her most powerful avatar was the one that confronted Luke Skywalker and Darth Krayt in the realm of Beyond Shadows.

At least, read the novel before coming to a thread and making claims about Abeloth.

Literally none of this contradicts anything he just said.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Literally none of this contradicts anything he just said.
Creating avatars doesn't makes you weaker.

Vitiate imbued his essence into hundreds of individuals, transforming them into vessels of his will (i.e. Children) and spread them across the galaxy but he remained extremely potent in Voice.

And Abeloth was far from drained and injured when she fought Darth Krayt and Luke Skywalker. All of what he stated is bullshit.

lol nonetheless, you just admitted that her avatars being killed weakened her. And it's made pretty clear that even "full power" Abeloth isn't as powerful as the one who fought the Ones.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
lol nonetheless, you just admitted that her avatars being killed weakened her. And it's made pretty clear that even "full power" Abeloth isn't as powerful as the one who fought the Ones.
Abeloth was going strong until her primary Abeloth was downed in Beyond Shadows.

It is just like the case with Vitiate. You hurt him most by destroying his Voice but not much by destroying his Children.

Yes, Abeloth was at her strongest... that's why her avatars get killed off by Boba Fett and Saba Sebatyne and thats why she isn't literally absorbing planets like she was centuries prior...

abeloth It has: Reality Warping, Regeneration, Spatial Manipulation, Matter Manipulation, Pocket Reality Manipulation