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Hi there. Long time poster, first time thread creator. Some of you may have admired me from afar (Pr, carver9, bluewaterrider, Bada) and have wondered, when IS this handsome Hulk fan (I'd be glad to include him in my raptor pride) gonna post a thread (I have attached clickable links below)? Also, I bet he's ginger and Irish, because, awesomesauce.

With that in mind:

Ben Grimm and Spiderman (Peter) are equalised in their stats. Speed, strength, agility, skills, etc.

The only thing different, is their personalities. Peter Parker is still Peter, and Ben is still Ben.

They are both fighting each other for the sake of their loved ones. Giving in would mean certain doom for them.

Who gives in first?

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_bSOM7jqvlc8/TSCp02CwfpI/AAAAAAAAAcM/ILlRHlD6bqg/s1600/Amazing_Spider-Man_Vol_1_50_page_08_Peter_Parker_%2528Earth-616%2529.jpg

VS

http://www.littlestuffedbull.com/images/comics/mtio50y.jpg

Well, if we go by the stips, the FF are part of Spidey's loved ones as well as Thing's, so I bet Ben would be less motivated by the possibility of winning nothing at all or having no important stakes on this. Peter is just selfish and stupid.

He takes the fall to keep Spidey from killing his family biscuits

Ben wins, Heartforce >>> Nerdforce

Dunno overall I'd say Peter has more heart... or is just too stupid to know when to throw in the towel. Given all that happens to him I'm impressed he gets up in the morning let alone thinks he's doing good for the world with how things tend to work out for him... How many dead ex's/family members, also Soul owned by Mephisto... the list goes on for the poor man. Also forever stuck in school... dear God being a student to being a teacher.... mercy for the man.

Close call IMO , but I'd give it to Ben

Cyclops before he became a maniac.

Eurgh, Pr, it's like you don't even pay attention.

Originally posted by Uriel005
Dunno overall I'd say Peter has more heart... or is just too stupid to know when to throw in the towel. Given all that happens to him I'm impressed he gets up in the morning let alone thinks he's doing good for the world with how things tend to work out for him... How many dead ex's/family members, also Soul owned by Mephisto... the list goes on for the poor man. Also forever stuck in school... dear God being a student to being a teacher.... mercy for the man.

He didn't sell his soul

He sold jizz love

Ben wins, and Cyclops, deep down, was always a douche.

Originally posted by Bouboumaster
Ben wins, and Cyclops, deep down, was always a douche.

Nah, there is no depth in Cyclops or whatsoever.

Neither of then are great exemples of force of will. Ben wanted to quit FF many times, in civil war he ran away...and Spider made a deal with the Devil to save his very old uncle who died...

Originally posted by eaebiakuya
Neither of then are great exemples of force of will. Ben wanted to quit FF many times, in civil war he ran away...and Spider made a deal with the Devil to save his very old uncle who died...

And yet....he impressed Champion, and has on many occasions (see WWH) gone up against people he has no business doing:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-m2rOU-5WfOo/UKD0w7L-E-I/AAAAAAAAC8c/47wKik_GLrk/s1600/Hero-Envy-Thing+-vs-Champion1.jpg

As for Spidey:

http://www.the-isb.com/images/ASM33-LiftBig.jpg

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Eurgh, Pr, it's like you don't even pay attention.

Shush, you.

Originally posted by Bouboumaster
Ben wins, and Cyclops, deep down, was always a douche.

No, he wasn't.

Originally posted by eaebiakuya
Neither of then are great exemples of force of will. Ben wanted to quit FF many times, in civil war he ran away...and Spider made a deal with the Devil to save his very old uncle who died...

Uncle? Really? Uncle?! REALLY?!!!

Peter.

Would have been Pete until they destroyed his legendary will and heart in the mental battle with Otto. Voting Ben.

Peter has no sold thing when it comes to overcoming stupidly unfavorable odds with will. I favor him with this match unless ben gets to have his existing brawling/boxing skills and peter doesnt

Originally posted by Digi
Would have been Pete until they destroyed his legendary will and heart in the mental battle with Otto. Voting Ben. That's not fair, it was a fragment of Pete's councious, not to mention it wasn't the lack of will that made him lose, it was guilt. Also...




SPOILER ALERT




Pete's already won the rematch. Id bet any sum of money that Otto failing to stop that bomb in SSM 19 was Pete's doing. Peter used that device to transport them both in time and space and bested Ock but Otto doesn't remember it. The countdown to his failure's started in issue 19. That's how Slott's stories work.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Peter has no sold thing when it comes to overcoming stupidly unfavorable odds with will. I favor him with this match unless ben gets to have his existing brawling/boxing skills and peter doesnt Pete can whine and complain when stuff happens to him but when he's fighting for someone else nothing short of death can stop him. Not even that sometimes. Remember some old issue where he died protecting a little girl and ended up in Death's realm, had to face a 30 foot tall Thanos and didn't give a crap because that girls life was at stake.

Originally posted by eaebiakuya
Neither of then are great exemples of force of will. Ben wanted to quit FF many times, in civil war he ran away...and Spider made a deal with the Devil to save his very old uncle who died... When was this?

Did you write it?

Originally posted by -Pr-
Cyclops before he became a maniac.

Originally posted by jitay
He didn't sell his soul

He sold jizz love

His Love

I mean aunt , not uncle, sorry.

Originally posted by jitay
His Love lmao jizz

Why does your auto correct change his to jizz?

You obviously use it a lot. Jizztay.

Spidey

TIL not many people read a lot of X-Men.

I didn't even know it had jizz in there

Originally posted by SamZED
Pete can whine and complain when stuff happens to him but when he's fighting for someone else nothing short of death can stop him. Not even that sometimes. Remember some old issue where he died protecting a little girl and ended up in Death's realm, had to face a 30 foot tall Thanos and didn't give a crap because that girls life was at stake.



Neither would quit/give in that easily. This battle could go on for days....and I honestly can't pick a winner.

First impression: Ben. But then I remember this classic scenario...

http://www.juvenilediabetic.com/spidey1.jpg

...and I can't decide.

I'm also biased. I like the Thing, but Spidey was my pre-Surfer favorite; still is, as far as city-level heroes go.

There's this feat off Spidermans where he for sent back in time into his own body replacing the body that was there with his and had to redo a bunch off stuff one after the other no break

it went on for 4 pages I think

But I'm not sure it's canon, cos that would be an awesome durability/stubbornness feat

Originally posted by jitay
There's this feat off Spidermans where he for sent back in time into his own body replacing the body that was there with his and had to redo a bunch off stuff one after the other no break

it went on for 4 pages I think

But I'm not sure it's canon, cos that would be an awesome durability/stubbornness feat It is canon and it was a lot more than just a bunch. It was hundreds non-stop battles with super villains + random endurance feats like once again having to lift that huge piece of machinery he was trapt under. Etc.

Yeah I got the pics on my fone

Got the rest but it will take too long to do it by fone

Edit: can't even upload the goddamned picture

Things wins, he just says "Peter, I'm your uncle" and breaks Parkers heart.

The Thing. Having heart is his thing since he's often outclassed as a brick.

And Spiderman isn't?

Yep. Ben is way higher up on the food chain, yet Pete constantly battles foes of the same caliber. As it was said above neither of them is givving up.

Originally posted by jitay
And Spiderman isn't?

Obviously not in my opinion. You disagree I take it. That's fine but people who choose Ben aren't crazy to do so.

Originally posted by brownqk
Obviously not in my opinion. You disagree I take it. That's fine but people who choose Ben aren't crazy to do so.

Admittedly I don't read that much FF but Spidey has 2 main themes guilt... Oh the goddamned guilt... And the overcoming adversity

People who aren't giving Cyke any credit obviously didn't read the Dark Phoenix saga, or the time period before Emma.

Also Thing wins this imo. Peter has "quit" being Spider-man too many times for my liking. While he can portray great heart (like he did fighting the P5) he has more mood swings than John Cena has haters.

Peter is a regular crimefighter/self appointed vigilante.
Thing is at best a reserve member of the avengers. The fantastic four dont fight crime or villains all year long.

Job=/=Family/Friend Ties

Peter having "mood swings" isnt comparable to Ben staying on friendly with thr richards/storm family as occasional adventurers.

Thing doesnt have a secret identity
Nor a significant other most of the times
Nor a career that started as a teenager
Nor a part time job outside of superheroics

Originally posted by Odekahn


Also Thing wins this imo. Peter has "quit" being Spider-man too many times for my liking. While he can portray great heart (like he did fighting the P5) he has more mood swings than John Cena has haters.

How many times has Ben blown up at Reed demanding to know why he hasn't come up with a cure for him? Presumably, so he could quit and continue a normal life. Usually Peter was juggling many things at once and the most times he quit were when he wasn't even 20 yet. Peter was the smartest guy his age he'd ever met, with super powers, and the whole world ahead of him. He's shown great commitment not quitting more times than he has. Most of his unsure moments came when he was still just a kid.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Peter is a regular crimefighter/self appointed vigilante.
Thing is at best a reserve member of the avengers. The fantastic four dont fight crime or villains all year long.

Job=/=Family/Friend Ties

Peter having "mood swings" isnt comparable to Ben staying on friendly with thr richards/storm family as occasional adventurers.

Thing doesnt have a secret identity
Nor a significant other most of the times
Nor a career that started as a teenager
Nor a part time job outside of superheroics

Nor freaking college

I say Ben Grimm.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Peter is a regular crimefighter/self appointed vigilante.
Thing is at best a reserve member of the avengers. The fantastic four dont fight crime or villains all year long.

Job=/=Family/Friend Ties

Peter having "mood swings" isnt comparable to Ben staying on friendly with thr richards/storm family as occasional adventurers.

Thing doesnt have a secret identity
Nor a significant other most of the times
Nor a career that started as a teenager
Nor a part time job outside of superheroics

Thing does not have a secret identity/significant other/outside job precisely because he looks like a freak, at least Spidey can take a break from his superheroics if he wants. Whereas Ben is pretty much stuck - and its probably worse considering Johnny Storm gets all the girls etc, and his own background as a high school jock etc.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Thing does not have a secret identity/significant other/outside job precisely because he looks like a freak, at least Spidey can take a break from his superheroics if he wants. Whereas Ben is pretty much stuck - and its probably worse considering Johnny Storm gets all the girls etc, and his own background as a high school jock etc.

but theres always that underlying guilt making him come back

whereas Ben has no obligation to Vigilante

I'd say its sometimes guilt but MOSTLY obligation and a sense of duty (especially when someone's life is on the line) that puts peter back in the suit.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Peter is a regular crimefighter/self appointed vigilante.
Thing is at best a reserve member of the avengers. The fantastic four dont fight crime or villains all year long.

Job=/=Family/Friend Ties

Peter having "mood swings" isnt comparable to Ben staying on friendly with thr richards/storm family as occasional adventurers.

Thing doesnt have a secret identity
Nor a significant other most of the times
Nor a career that started as a teenager
Nor a part time job outside of superheroics

even the period during Emma (at least in the early stages) had plenty of examples.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Thing does not have a secret identity/significant other/outside job precisely because he looks like a freak, at least Spidey can take a break from his superheroics if he wants. Whereas Ben is pretty much stuck - and its probably worse considering Johnny Storm gets all the girls etc, and his own background as a high school jock etc.

But thats exactly why Peter trumps him in that he couldve taken those but didnt.

Thing is ugly hence has no persisting love life, would actually be less successful or popular to society if he were to revert back to human.

While peter had genius intellect he couldve exploited had he not stayed as spider-man, had a fair amount of lovers, would in general have a better life in case he had quit permanently.

Bump

This was a sh!t thread idea.

Don't be so hard on yourself

My first thread was Howard vs Rocket

Anyway I just needed this do I could postOriginally posted by jitay
There's this feat off Spidermans where he for sent back in time into his own body replacing the body that was there with his and had to redo a bunch off stuff one after the other no break

it went on for 4 pages I think

But I'm not sure it's canon, cos that would be an awesome durability/stubbornness feat when I wake up tomorrow

Originally posted by -Pr-
Cyclops before he became a maniac.

Originally posted by maxivitopowe
Don't be so hard on yourself

My first thread was Howard vs Rocket

Anyway I just needed this do I could post when I wake up tomorrow Jitay is correct but he doesn't remember the whole thing. Pete was stuck in time and in order to get back (he was looking for Dr. Strange) he had to repeat his greatest and toughest fights/feats. One after another, hundreds of battles non-stop. At the end of it all he was given the chance to fix history, prevent himself from being turned into Spider-man, save Ben, Gwen, George Stacey etc but chose not to because that could've also erased all the good he's done, and he couldn't turn away from his responsibilities and hope that some other hero would do it for him.

PS: That was one long way of me saying "Pete wins".

yeah i was saying that i had scans (which i cant find right now -__-)

Cool pic

Originally posted by golem370
Cool pic
Friggin awesome. Been searching for this pic. Now I'll get some pics of him forcing through Doom's attacks and crushing his armor.

Gawd, they really go balls out with that "heart power" don't they. I mean, I get that it's part of the thread and all, but damn.

Originally posted by Tony Stark


What?

I think Peter is more plagued by doubts and insecurities that can interfere with his determination.

Leaning towards Aunt Petunia's nephew, not Aunt May's.

Thing wins and gets a kiss in the bargin

Im thinking Spider-Man. Hes gone through so much more with nothing to turn to but his own will. That time he had to relive all his fights, Morlun, maximum carnage, worthy thing, P5 Colossus. Its insane some of the stuff he just takes on his shoulders all because of great power/great responsibility. If it came down to having to protect somebody, spidey hands down.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Gawd, they really go balls out with that "heart power" don't they. I mean, I get that it's part of the thread and all, but damn.



What?

Hulk Killer Humanoid is the true victor here. He went toe to toe with Hulk who is the strongest there is and won!

It's debatable. Both have heart at the same level imo. Hard to make an accurate judgment when both of their roles are different. I think Spiderman has a lot more weight on his shoulders since he is more of a solo hero so he would have more showings of probably throwing in the towel since he watches over a city by himself.

Pah. Nobody has more heart then the Ever loving Blue Eye'd THING!

Pete is just a nerdy jerk.

We never coined a pharse like "tapping into the Heart force" for Spidey. That should give you an idea.

Bump for Nibedicus.

Op is charismatic and handsome.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Bump for Nibedicus.

Op is charismatic and handsome.

Yay! Finally, not another Thor/Surfer/Superman/Hulk thread. Lol. Thanks! Made my day.

As for thread, I say Spiderman. Guy literally trucked thru some major tragedies in his life without losing his sense of humor.

But.....he's got a pretty swell life still, compared to becoming a monster freakshow thanks to his best mate...

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
But.....he's got a pretty swell life still, compared to becoming a monster freakshow thanks to his best mate...

Point taken. While such a thing would be quite tragic, one can actually eventually get used to the idea of being a freakshow (Real life ppl have done so, after all) and eventually settle in.

Peter gets highs in his life followed by extreme lows. The rollercoaster of fortune and tragedy the guy faces regularly is enough to make most ppl just crumple up.

It's like: Gets superpowers, uncle dies. Gets girl of his dreams. She dies. Gets married. Have that taken away. Etc.

Yes good point. Peter has continued to be Spidey through his ups and downs (which will make most quit). Thing hasn't really had any roller coaster lifestyle to actually know if he would quit too.

But as far as fighting, I would say Ben. He fights people knowingly out of his level. Spidey would either run or just use his brains or agility. I'm thinking Ben is the last one standing, mainly because of the Champion showing and him trying to fight WWH.

Op has a tiny chiney.

Spidey made a career out of fighting people out of his league.

Well, Spiderman DID beat Firelord simply due to "heart". He's punched enemies that made his hand bleed from punching them til he brought them down. He's been beaten to a pulp (did he get one of his eyes ripped out once?) and still kept chugging by enemies way out of his league and somehow he managed to pull out a win. He's stood against enemies he KNEW would kill him easily and gladly and still took them on anyway. His entire career is littered with this.

I mean who has Thing fought way out of his league and end up winning due to pure "heart"? Does Thing's hands even hurt everytime he punches someone?

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Well, Spiderman DID beat Firelord simply due to "heart". He's punched enemies that made his hand bleed from punching them til he brought them down. He's been beaten to a pulp (did he get one of his eyes ripped out once?) and still kept chugging by enemies way out of his league and somehow he managed to pull out a win. He's stood against enemies he KNEW would kill him easily and gladly and still took them on anyway. His entire career is littered with this.

I mean who has Thing fought way out of his league and end up winning due to pure "heart"? Does Thing's hands even hurt everytime he punches someone? I recall spidey running a few times and using agility and brains to fight. Thing never ran. This averages Spidey down imo. Thing fought WWH, who is far beyond him. Thing knew he couldn't win. Thing fought Champion and was beaten to a bloody pulp and still didn't quit. It wasn't like Champion was trying to kill someone he loved. Spidey is not fighting someone like that for no dire reason.

Firelord feat wasn't heart. He just used speed mostly and kept at it. Thing would have done the same if he had Spidey s powers. Put Thing in spideys place and he would have achieved everything Peter did minus the running away or using smarts to win.

Thing doesn't have to run because he's phucking invulnerable and can tank almost anything. Spidey doesn't have invulnerability in his powerset. When spidey is fighting out of his league its almost always against someone who could kill him with one good clean shot. Thing takes on guys what 1-2 tiers above him when Spidey doesn't blink to regularly take on guys 4-5 tiers above him.

Originally posted by h1a8
I recall spidey running a few times and using agility and brains to fight. Thing never ran. This averages Spidey down imo. Thing fought WWH, who is far beyond him. Thing knew he couldn't win. Thing fought Champion and was beaten to a bloody pulp and still didn't quit. It wasn't like Champion was trying to kill someone he loved. Spidey is not fighting someone like that for no dire reason.

Firelord feat wasn't heart. He just used speed mostly and kept at it. Thing would have done the same if he had Spidey s powers. Put Thing in spideys place and he would have achieved everything Peter did minus the running away or using smarts to win.

Thing's power is being pretty much being invulnerable and strong enough to at least keep up with most opponents. Again, him not running away and fighting smart (while Peter does) doesn't mean he has more heart. It just means that the way he fights uses less brains and is more straight forward.

Again, beating Firelord was far beyond what Spiderman should have been able to achieve, but stubborness, smarts and heart kept him at it til he pulled it off. You saying, hypothetically, Thing would do the same thing, is just that. Post "feats" at least so we can compare. Heat isn't just about courage, it's about being able to power thru impossible odds by sheer will.

https://longboxgraveyard.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/firelord-01.png?w=604

Thing is, this isn't the only time, you also have to consider Morlun, The Sinister Six (all together), etc. and worse of all, working for JJ Jameson. Spiderman pulls the impossible off on a regular basis on his own, with no big brain to help.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Thing's power is being pretty much being invulnerable and strong enough to at least keep up with most opponents. Again, him not running away and fighting smart (while Peter does) doesn't mean he has more heart. It just means that the way he fights uses less brains and is more straight forward.

Again, beating Firelord was far beyond what Spiderman should have been able to achieve, but stubborness, smarts and heart kept him at it til he pulled it off. You saying, hypothetically, Thing would do the same thing, is just that. Post "feats" at least so we can compare. Heat isn't just about courage, it's about being able to power thru impossible odds by sheer will.

https://longboxgraveyard.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/firelord-01.png?w=604

Thing is, this isn't the only time, you also have to consider Morlun, The Sinister Six (all together), etc. and worse of all, working for JJ Jameson. Spiderman pulls the impossible off on a regular basis on his own, with no big brain to help.

Spiderman's a big brain himself.

Ben was a pro quarterback, the star wrestler, the ,most popular kid in school....then became a hideous monster only a blind girl could love.

Spidey was a loser geek who gained the ability to dodge any fight he wanted, yet can dish out plenty of damage himself. Married a supermodel. Had the support of a loving aunt, and a steady job.

Ben became a hero despite having the origins of a villain.

Spidey? Because of a massive guilt complex.

What does that have to do with who has more heart? One more thing to consider is Ben was a grown man when he made his decision to become a hero backed by nigh invulnerability and a billionaire Super genius while Peter was pretty much still a child deciding to take on crime himself. Unfair comparisson.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Thing's power is being pretty much being invulnerable and strong enough to at least keep up with most opponents. Again, him not running away and fighting smart (while Peter does) doesn't mean he has more heart. It just means that the way he fights uses less brains and is more straight forward.

Again, beating Firelord was far beyond what Spiderman should have been able to achieve, but stubborness, smarts and heart kept him at it til he pulled it off. You saying, hypothetically, Thing would do the same thing, is just that. Post "feats" at least so we can compare. Heat isn't just about courage, it's about being able to power thru impossible odds by sheer will.

https://longboxgraveyard.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/firelord-01.png?w=604

Thing is, this isn't the only time, you also have to consider Morlun, The Sinister Six (all together), etc. and worse of all, working for JJ Jameson. Spiderman pulls the impossible off on a regular basis on his own, with no big brain to help.

Thing would die before giving up, even if he knows he cant win. This is clear as day. That's beyond heart, it's stupidity. Peter is not that stupid. Peter will only fight if he believes that he has a good chance to win. When he doesn't then he would run like the coward that he is. Anyway, if you put Things mind and soul in Spidey s body then he would have done exactly the same. Hell Spidey didn't get hit. Why be scared to continue on. WWH could kill Thing easily if he wanted. But he decided to fight someone he knows that he has zero chance to win against and that they can kill him. Thing was basically dying against Champion and could have quit but didn't. Thing is just too stupid to quit. That's beyond heart.

Right, because Spider-man just ran from Phoenix 5 colossus and his sister, Angrir, Juggernaut, Morlun. No. He got beaten nearly to death and refused to back down against guys who would beat down Ben himself.

Originally posted by h1a8
Thing would die before giving up, even if he knows he cant win. This is clear as day. That's beyond heart, it's stupidity. Peter is not that stupid. Peter will only fight if he believes that he has a good chance to win. When he doesn't then he would run like the coward that he is. I honestly thought you're more familiar with Spider-man. What you described is a an opposite of his character. If somebody depends on him Peter will fight even if there's no chance of winning. He'll fight until his body dies. Sometimes even after that.

Originally posted by SamZED
I honestly thought you're more familiar with Spider-man. What you described is a an opposite of his character. If somebody depends on him Peter will fight even if there's no chance of winning. He'll fight until his body dies. Sometimes even after that. Lol, different writer's different interpretations. Some writers had spidey scared shitless and ran. Others had him be more brave. I'm just taking averages. Anyway, I believe that if Thing was in spidey body and in spideys situation then he would have done the same. I'm not sure if Spidey would have done everything Thing would have since Thing never ran and have did some stupid stuff.

Averages would likely have Spidey standing his ground since I can't recall any of the times spidey ran. And if it wasn't an important fight or lives weren't depending on him, it doesn't count.

Originally posted by SamZED
I honestly thought you're more familiar with Spider-man. What you described is a an opposite of his character. If somebody depends on him Peter will fight even if there's no chance of winning. He'll fight until his body dies. Sometimes even after that.
Originally posted by JayDaDon
Averages would likely have Spidey standing his ground since I can't recall any of the times spidey ran. And if it wasn't an important fight or lives weren't depending on him, it doesn't count.

like the AVX event whe he fought 2 of the P5

Originally posted by h1a8
1) Thing would die before giving up, even if he knows he cant win. This is clear as day. That's beyond heart, it's stupidity.

2) Peter is not that stupid. Peter will only fight if he believes that he has a good chance to win. When he doesn't then he would run like the coward that he is.

3) Anyway, if you put Things mind and soul in Spidey s body then he would have done exactly the same. Hell Spidey didn't get hit. Why be scared to continue on. WWH could kill Thing easily if he wanted. But he decided to fight someone he knows that he has zero chance to win against and that they can kill him. Thing was basically dying against Champion and could have quit but didn't. Thing is just too stupid to quit. That's beyond heart.

1) And you're right. That isn't heart. That's just stupidity. A mindset where risk is not really considered, while just focusing on a target. Courage is not the absence of fear, it is the existence of it and fighting though.

2) That is not true at all. In fact I just presented evidence EXACTLY the opposite of what you just said. There has been many instances where he was scared shitless, that he knew he would lose, that he believed that it's his last stand, but he fought on and pulled it off. Best example is the Firelord scene.

3) Maybe. But until that is proven with actual "feats", we go by the guy who actually has said "feats". Also, Hulk and Thing have fought on many occasions. He is not an unknown opponent whose power is known to be easily lethal to him. Which Champion vs Thing showing are we talking about? The only thing I can recall is the boxing match.

Originally posted by 8swords
like the AVX event whe he fought 2 of the P5

Or the time he took on Juggernaut and withstood an extended beating from him until he won.

Originally posted by JayDaDon
Or the time he took on Juggernaut and withstood an extended beating from him until he won.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-3lr4v6xWX3g/VO_Z-A_ZfGI/AAAAAAAIN5o/2_prn7cdFds/s1600/p9_17.jpg

meh, mainly this, and also where is ben's heart now?