Xavier vs Maxwell Lord

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eaebiakuya
Who wins This TP battle ?

abhilegend
Lord. His mindwipe of everyone on earth and then restoring it on a moment's notice was ****ing insane.

http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/17029872_JL_-_Generation_Lost_01_pg_28_copy.jpg http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/17029873_JL_-_Generation_Lost_01_pg_29_copy.jpg http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/17029874_JL_-_Generation_Lost_01_pg_30_copy.jpg

That's beyond Chuck's ability to do. Even in JLI days he was easily capable of mindwiping J'onn

SquallX
Originally posted by abhilegend
Lord. His mindwipe of everyone on earth and then restoring it on a moment's notice was ****ing insane.

http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/17029872_JL_-_Generation_Lost_01_pg_28_copy.jpg http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/17029873_JL_-_Generation_Lost_01_pg_29_copy.jpg http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/17029874_JL_-_Generation_Lost_01_pg_30_copy.jpg

That's beyond Chuck's ability to do. Even in JLI days he was easily capable of mindwiping J'onn

He didn't casually do those feats though. Prep was needed to achieved said feat.

I'll say there about even if they casually fought. But with prep, Xavier has the edge.

abhilegend
Originally posted by SquallX
He didn't casually do those feats though. Prep was needed to achieved said feat.

I'll say there about even if they casually fought. But with prep, Xavier has the edge.
He later reversed it casually though. That's a ****ing insane feat if you think just how many telepath are there on DC earth. All the prep involved was a blood supply so that he doesn't die from blood loss.

celeyhyga17
Originally posted by abhilegend
He later reversed it casually though. That's a ****ing insane feat if you think just how many telepath are there on DC earth. All the prep involved was a blood supply so that he doesn't die from blood loss.
Which tells u it was much easier to reverse than to perform the mindwipe. Kind of makes sense no?

Is it really beyond Chuck's ability? I mean we are talking about one of the most if not the most powerful telepath in Marvel barring any trans and above characters.

Galan007
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Which tells u it was much easier to reverse than to perform the mindwipe. Kind of makes sense no? Seems like restoring memories would be just as hard as erasing them, no?

Like abhi said: when pressed, Max preformed the former on the fly without any prep:
http://imgur.com/jbNgAKn
http://imgur.com/xAosvmt
http://imgur.com/55KdjDf
http://imgur.com/jS7ocrb
Granted, it still appeared to take its toll on Max, but he did it rather casually nonetheless.

However, if we are just going by visual depictions of the event(s), then Max initially preforming mind-phuckery on the world certainly *looked* more taxing:
http://imgur.com/UzLPXn6
http://imgur.com/pEBbEUs
http://imgur.com/9Y9VNWW
http://imgur.com/wCP244j
http://imgur.com/oXBGSih
http://imgur.com/OXImlBy

...But like I said, it *seems* like the feats would be fairly equal in terms of the sheer TP powa/control required... Perhaps Max simply became more adept with his TP as time progressed? The feats did take place 20+ issues apart, after all. Dunno. /shrug

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by Galan007
Seems like restoring memories would be just as hard as erasing them, no?

Like abhi said: when pressed, Max preformed the former on the fly without any prep:
http://imgur.com/jbNgAKn
http://imgur.com/xAosvmt
http://imgur.com/55KdjDf
http://imgur.com/jS7ocrb
Granted, it still appeared to take its toll on Max, but he did it rather casually nonetheless.

However, if we are just going by visual depictions of the event(s), then Max initially preforming mind-phuckery on the world certainly *looked* more taxing:
http://imgur.com/UzLPXn6
http://imgur.com/pEBbEUs
http://imgur.com/9Y9VNWW
http://imgur.com/wCP244j
http://imgur.com/oXBGSih
http://imgur.com/OXImlBy

...But like I said, it *seems* like the feats would be fairly equal in terms of the sheer TP powa/control required... Perhaps Max simply became more adept with his TP as time progressed? The feats did take place 20+ issues apart, after all. Dunno. /shrug

I would imagine Max got better as time progressed. The comics seemed to show that, though not explicitly.

celeyhyga17
Originally posted by Galan007
Seems like restoring memories would be just as hard as erasing them, no?

Like abhi said: when pressed, Max preformed the former on the fly without any prep:
http://imgur.com/jbNgAKn
http://imgur.com/xAosvmt
http://imgur.com/55KdjDf
http://imgur.com/jS7ocrb
Granted, it still appeared to take its toll on Max, but he did it rather casually nonetheless.

However, if we are just going by visual depictions of the event(s), then Max initially preforming mind-phuckery on the world certainly *looked* more taxing:
http://imgur.com/UzLPXn6
http://imgur.com/pEBbEUs
http://imgur.com/9Y9VNWW
http://imgur.com/wCP244j
http://imgur.com/oXBGSih
http://imgur.com/OXImlBy

...But like I said, it *seems* like the feats would be fairly equal in terms of the sheer TP powa/control required... Perhaps Max simply became more adept with his TP as time progressed? The feats did take place 20+ issues apart, after all. Dunno. /shrug
That's just it. Visual evidence would lead one to believe that it was more complicated to apply that mental block.
Maybe he did progress like you suggested, but what has he done within those 20 issues to really validate that?
Comparing those 2 instances, the latter felt as if it had smaller requirement of power/control.. That's just me.

Brockalizer
I've always about that Chuck was rather overrated. No way he could duplicate Lord's global mindwipe without an assist from Cerebra.

abhilegend
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Which tells u it was much easier to reverse than to perform the mindwipe. Kind of makes sense no?

Is it really beyond Chuck's ability? I mean we are talking about one of the most if not the most powerful telepath in Marvel barring any trans and above characters.
Actually Lord's mindcontrol is so complicated that not even J'onn and Lasso of Truth can break it on someone's mind. If he brainwashed someone, its more taxing to break it. He couldn't even break his control on superman even if he wanted.

Titles are just that, titles.

Odekahn
Split imo

"Id"
Chuck.

quanchi112
Xavier wins.

Golgo13
Going with Max. His feats are just too uber.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Golgo13
Going with Max. His feats are just too uber. Feats don't determine superiority.

Supra
Is he using Cerebro?

CatL18
According to comicvine's debaters, Maxwell is only low or mid level telepath. I seemed to underrate Maxwell.

beatboks
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
That's just it. Visual evidence would lead one to believe that it was more complicated to apply that mental block.
Maybe he did progress like you suggested, but what has he done within those 20 issues to really validate that?
Comparing those 2 instances, the latter felt as if it had smaller requirement of power/control.. That's just me.
Why would we have to be limited to just those "20 issues" the history of the character clearly shows his powers have evolved over time leading up to that point. When he first appeared in JLA he didn't even have fully blown TP. He had the ability to influence a single mind to agree with him. Doing this caused a slight nose bleed. As time went on into JLI etc he was able to gradually influence larger and larger groups without a nose bleed. The fact that his powers might have evolved between the two instances is frankly consistent with the changing level of his powers since conception. To assume there would be a difference in this evolution later than earlier is what would require proof not to prove what history of the character already supports very well.

beatboks
Originally posted by CatL18
According to comicvine's debaters, Maxwell is only low or mid level telepath. I seemed to underrate Maxwell.

I think that take his earlier feats to the exclusion of his latter labeling them as PIS. Like I said when you look at the continuity of the character you see a power level that grows over time. The fact that it is substantially higher after a long period of no appearances just falls within that consistency. If he had had appearances with these lower levels closer to his peak appearances than the PIS label could be justified. But he went unseen to the wider audience for years and with just the small growth in his power level over the year or three when he was being seen more often I don't see a problem accepting those peak ones.

CatL18
Originally posted by beatboks
I think that take his earlier feats to the exclusion of his latter labeling them as PIS. Like I said when you look at the continuity of the character you see a power level that grows over time. The fact that it is substantially higher after a long period of no appearances just falls within that consistency. If he had had appearances with these lower levels closer to his peak appearances than the PIS label could be justified. But he went unseen to the wider audience for years and with just the small growth in his power level over the year or three when he was being seen more often I don't see a problem accepting those peak ones.

Non telepathist with indomitable will like Superman or Hal have resisted uber strong telepathy. But They have been Mindraped by weak telepath. is it PIS or CIS?

Glorificus
Xavier stomps.

Golgo13
LOL!

Mindset
Xavier breaks his neck.

DarkSaint85
Max tips him down the stairs.

Mindset
Is he paralyzed again?

DarkSaint85
If he isn't, he soon will be sneer

http://loltubes.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Professor-X-has-one-weakness.jpg

Q99
Originally posted by abhilegend
Actually Lord's mindcontrol is so complicated that not even J'onn and Lasso of Truth can break it on someone's mind. If he brainwashed someone, its more taxing to break it.

Yes, that's true. The lasso of truth only provided a *temporary* reprieve, which is fairly crazy.

This was roughly the same timeframe where the lasso was able to undo Dr. Psycho's mindwashing of Sergeant Steel easily (which was full "He thinks he's someone else" level).


Originally posted by CatL18
According to comicvine's debaters, Maxwell is only low or mid level telepath. I seemed to underrate Maxwell.

He was, at one point. He got stronger.

Also, his output seems scaleable to whatever he wants, provided he's willing to take the bloodloss for it.

His telepathy also isn't the full range of telepathy- he doesn't do mind reading or sensing type stuff, he only does mind pushing.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Q99
Yes, that's true. The lasso of truth only provided a *temporary* reprieve, which is fairly crazy.

This was roughly the same timeframe where the lasso was able to undo Dr. Psycho's mindwashing of Sergeant Steel easily (which was full "He thinks he's someone else" level).




He was, at one point. He got stronger.

Also, his output seems scaleable to whatever he wants, provided he's willing to take the bloodloss for it.

His telepathy also isn't the full range of telepathy- he doesn't do mind reading or sensing type stuff, he only does mind pushing.
By negating Max's TP. On superman it did nothing at all.

http://i.imgur.com/K3vf3p9.jpg

That's crazy level of mental manipulation.

beatboks
Originally posted by CatL18
Non telepathist with indomitable will like Superman or Hal have resisted uber strong telepathy. But They have been Mindraped by weak telepath. is it PIS or CIS?

Can you provide examples of 'mindrape by weak telepaths" because i can't think of any. Let's remember also that Hal has no immunity to TP he can and has succumbed often (most notably to Hector Hammond, King Shark etc). His ring gives him a way to combat it and his will can overcome it but that still takes time. Example in one classic story vs hector he was made hector's puppet but in prep he had given the ring a command not to work if his mind wasn't under his own control so Hector couldn't use it with him.

CatL18
Originally posted by beatboks
Can you provide examples of 'mindrape by weak telepaths" because i can't think of any. Let's remember also that Hal has no immunity to TP he can and has succumbed often (most notably to Hector Hammond, King Shark etc). His ring gives him a way to combat it and his will can overcome it but that still takes time. Example in one classic story vs hector he was made hector's puppet but in prep he had given the ring a command not to work if his mind wasn't under his own control so Hector couldn't use it with him.
I know,but, People in CV or CBR tend to insist that Superman have been mindraped by Poison Ivy, So, Superman's resistance is only pis.

CatL18
Originally posted by beatboks
Can you provide examples of 'mindrape by weak telepaths" because i can't think of any.
I know,but, People in CV or CBR tend to insist like that Superman have been mindraped by Poison ivy, So, Superman's resistance is only pis.

abhilegend
Originally posted by CatL18
I know,but, People in CV or CBR tend to insist like that Superman have been mindraped by Poison ivy, So, Superman's resistance is only pis.
While weakened by Kryptonite? Context was never a strong suit for Bane.

beatboks
Originally posted by CatL18
I know,but, People in CV or CBR tend to insist like that Superman have been mindraped by Poison ivy, So, Superman's resistance is only pis.

OMG Ivy doesn't have TP. The way she controls people is chemically with pheromones and in some instances the way they allow her to mesmerize others. As abhi pointed out she could only use this on Supes with a Kryptonite affected pheromone. That has nothing what so ever to do with TP resistance.

CatL18
I think that They simply don't know Superman's resistance feat, or regard them as PIS.

I personally think that if the world is at stake, He will resist even multiversal or megaversal entitie's manipulation.
Is it PIS?

Q99
Indeed, telepathy resistance and chemical mind control are very different things.

Originally posted by abhilegend
By negating Max's TP. On superman it did nothing at all.

http://i.imgur.com/K3vf3p9.jpg

That's crazy level of mental manipulation.

Hah, never knew she got a strangle-lasso on him in one of the clip versions of the fight, and yes, it does make it even crazier. I am with you on this one!

abhilegend
Originally posted by Q99
Indeed, telepathy resistance and chemical mind control are very different things.



Hah, never knew she got a strangle-lasso on him in one of the clip versions of the fight, and yes, it does make it even crazier. I am with you on this one!
That's because he wasn't aware of her presence.

uhuh

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