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The question speaks for itself. Lets say if Surfer wasn't a pacifist...would he move up a tier?.

No, because we see how he performs against true Trans Tiers. He loses.

He's an elite High Herald and there's no shame in that.

His combat feats of course. When was the last time he beat an actual high herald in direct combat and no suckering BRB doesn't counts.

Originally posted by abhilegend
His combat feats of course. When was the last time he beat an actual high herald in direct combat and no suckering BRB doesn't counts.

This^

Surfer is so not cool anymore. The last thing I ever remember him being cool about was remaking Storm Breaker and reviving BRB.

Thor, Thor is preventing him from moving up

Originally posted by pym-ftw
Thor, Thor is preventing him from moving up
That goddamn hippie and his accursed hammer!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by abhilegend
His combat feats of course. When was the last time he beat an actual high herald in direct combat and no suckering BRB doesn't counts.

Yea, I agree. He has bouts of looking trans-ish, but then faced with high heralds his performance hasn't really changed much.

I'd say getting mugged and hog tied by a mariachi band drops him a few steps. But hey, that's just me.

Originally posted by Khazra Reborn
I'd say getting mugged and hog tied by a mariachi band drops him a few steps. But hey, that's just me.

If he wasn't a pacifist, used speed and reflexes more, used more exotic powers instead of plain blasts, then he would be easily trans

Originally posted by carver9
The question speaks for itself. Lets say if Surfer wasn't a pacifist...would he move up a tier?. The fact that the tier is named after him is one thing

Has Thanos ever dropped like a stone after getting knocked out of his chair?

'Nuff said.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
This^

Surfer is so not cool anymore. The last thing I ever remember him being cool about was remaking Storm Breaker and reviving BRB. Spider-Man could do that, too

Originally posted by psycho gundam
Spider-Man could do that, too

How?

Look through Trans. and it's hard to find many wins for Surfer. I get that some want to see the best in him while simultaneously taking only average or lowball showings from others. But if we're equally fair to both sides, there aren't many wins waiting for him on the other side of that tier line. And frankly, even non-CIS, non-PIS, bloodlust, no holds barred, whatever-else-you-can-think-of Surfer would get wrecked by the majority of Trans.

I'll concede a couple. Matchup problems + the bottom 3-4 in Trans., and there's a good case to be made for a few good matches. But really, he's just kinda where he belongs...at the top of the HH tier, along with the other stalwarts of HH like Kal and Thor.

srug

Originally posted by Digi
Look through Trans. and it's hard to find many wins for Surfer. I get that some want to see the best in him while simultaneously taking only average or lowball showings from others. But if we're equally fair to both sides, there aren't many wins waiting for him on the other side of that tier line. And frankly, even non-CIS, non-PIS, bloodlust, no holds barred, whatever-else-you-can-think-of Surfer would get wrecked by the majority of Trans.

I'll concede a couple. Matchup problems + the bottom 3-4 in Trans., and there's a good case to be made for a few good matches. But really, he's just kinda where he belongs...at the top of the HH tier, along with the other stalwarts of HH like Kal and Thor.

srug actually skyfathers can't beat a no holds barred Surfer. Surfer has Ftl speed and reflexes. He can phase through any attacks or just avoid them with speed. He has black hole blasts that will outright kill any average Trans instantly.

Originally posted by h1a8
actually skyfathers can't beat a no holds barred Surfer. Surfer has Ftl speed and reflexes. He can phase through any attacks or just avoid them with speed. He has black hole blasts that will outright kill any average Trans instantly. lol

Originally posted by h1a8
actually skyfathers can't beat a no holds barred Surfer. Surfer has Ftl speed and reflexes. He can phase through any attacks or just avoid them with speed. He has black hole blasts that will outright kill any average Trans instantly.

Not sure if you're joking or not.

I'm familiar with his abilities. But my point stands. The majority of Trans. wrecks him, especially if we grant everyone absurdly specific use of their best powers like you just did.

Originally posted by h1a8
actually skyfathers can't beat a no holds barred Surfer. ElOhEl. Skyfathers are capable of giving Galactus himself a run for his money. How on earth you think a being whom only wields an insignificant micro-fraction of Galactus' PC(ie. Surfer) could legitimately defeat a Skyfather, truly boggles the mind.

Anywho, most elite herald-class characters have operated well beyond that tier, and preformed Trans-level, or Skyfather, or even Abstract-esque feats, on multiple occasions. Surfer is certainly not 'special' in that regard. That's why high-end feats alone aren't the sole method in which a character is gauged.

Ignore h1. I'm sure skyfathers have encountered Surfer. How did his fight with Odin or Gaea went BTW?

vin

Originally posted by Galan007
ElOhEl. Skyfathers are capable of giving Galactus himself a run for his money. How on earth you think a being whom only wields an insignificant micro-fraction of Galactus' PC(ie. Surfer) could legitimately defeat a Skyfather, truly boggles the mind.

Anywho, most elite herald-class characters have operated well beyond that tier, and preformed Trans-level, or Skyfather, or even Abstract-esque feats, on multiple occasions. Surfer is certainly not 'special' in that regard. That's why high-end feats aren't the sole method in which a character is gauged.

Originally posted by carver9
The question speaks for itself. Lets say if Surfer wasn't a pacifist...would he move up a tier?.

An upgrade from Galactus.

Originally posted by h1a8
actually skyfathers can't beat a no holds barred Surfer. Surfer has Ftl speed and reflexes. He can phase through any attacks or just avoid them with speed. He has black hole blasts that will outright kill any average Trans instantly.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111111345/3168442-722245bdcb31399ec363faf57e6a49a8.jpg

What is preventing Surfer from being a trans tier character???.... the "genius" of KMC asks.

and i answer : his fights and showings .... his fights and showings

Originally posted by tkitna
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111111345/3168442-722245bdcb31399ec363faf57e6a49a8.jpg

I know right. You'd think that he doesn't read comics at all, or blatantly ignores what's in them. Odin one shot KO'd Surfer.

Originally posted by Stoic
I know right. You'd think that he doesn't read comics at all, or blatantly ignores what's in them. Odin one shot KO'd Surfer.

Originally posted by Galan007
ElOhEl. Skyfathers are capable of giving Galactus himself a run for his money. How on earth you think a being whom only wields an insignificant micro-fraction of Galactus' PC(ie. Surfer) could legitimately defeat a Skyfather, truly boggles the mind.

Anywho, most elite herald-class characters have operated well beyond that tier, and preformed Trans-level, or Skyfather, or even Abstract-esque feats, on multiple occasions. Surfer is certainly not 'special' in that regard. That's why high-end feats alone aren't the sole method in which a character is gauged.

Skyfathers giving Galactus a run for his money is no different than a herald giving a skyfather a run for his money. You said yourself that characters operate outside of their tier multiple times (above and below). As you will see below, high end feats are not the basis of my argument.

Logical speaking, the amount of power in itself is irrelevant. Power doesn't prove anything by itself. Power is only relevant in itself if all other things are equal. It's what you do with the power along with how much power. In addition to this, it can take a smaller amount of power to cause greater damage. For example, the president can use the power of his fingers to hit a button to send a nuke to another country.
Surfer has powers that can indirectly cause greater damage than his output. For example, he can create singularities by causing a small amount of matter and energy to collapse upon itself.

Logical speaking again, what goes on in a comic is irrelevant to what happens in a forum fight if PIS was involved.

Surfer does have FTL speed and reflexes. He doesn't uses it in comics often due to PIS. The number of times something happens doesn't determine PIS. PIS is something that goes against the ACCEPTED FACTS IN COMICS. Surfer has ftl speed and reflexes. This is a fact. In a non plot driven setting (a forum setting) Surfer would be nigh hard to hit by a much slower being (Skyfathers). Not only that, he has shown some nasty attacks that can even kill skyfathers. He doesn't use those types of attacks often though. You can argue CIS there but my point is that a no holds barred Surfer (CIS off) will use them and succeed.

Odin also has FTL showings though.

****, Thor does, and his attacks are stated FTL to support that on a few occasions.

Odin is also more versatile than Surfer. Even Old King Thor in God of Thunder could open a ****ing black hole, which is your cited "Super cool punching above weight class" attack Surfer would rely on.

Originally posted by Digi
Not sure if you're joking or not.

I'm familiar with his abilities. But my point stands. The majority of Trans. wrecks him, especially if we grant everyone absurdly specific use of their best powers like you just did. While you mods play your "jungle bunny rape fiction" games, the rest of the forum has to deal with that.

I'd take 10 Brucies over that

Originally posted by NemeBro
Odin also has FTL showings though.

****, Thor does, and his attacks are stated FTL to support that on a few occasions.

Odin is also more versatile than Surfer. Even Old King Thor in God of Thunder could open a ****ing black hole, which is your cited "Super cool punching above weight class" attack Surfer would rely on.

Show me FTL combat speed and reflex feats by Odin. Traveling FTL doesn't count since Odin has to achieve those speeds withing battle distance.

Odin opening a black hole (needs to be proven though) has nothing to do with Surfer doing it.

Originally posted by carver9
The question speaks for itself. Lets say if Surfer wasn't a pacifist...would he move up a tier?. His ranking in the KMC tiers thread.

Originally posted by Digi
Not sure if you're joking or not.

I'm familiar with his abilities. But my point stands. The majority of Trans. wrecks him, especially if we grant everyone absurdly specific use of their best powers like you just did. I kindly disagree. Speed >>>>>> Everything.
Speed effectively stops time. Stopping time is an instant win (or a no lose situation).
Only a few beings are as fast as Surfer (including reflexes). Most trans and skyfathers are powerful but not fast.

Can Surfer stop time? Has he done it before.?.

Originally posted by carver9
Can Surfer stop time? Has he done it before.?.
No, Hal has done it tough.

awesome

But Hal is from DC. Marvel characters on KMC can have feats that they never presented, but DC characters such as superman getting intangible or moving at light speeds and having reflex at those levels does not count.

Originally posted by h1a8
Show me FTL combat speed and reflex feats by Odin. Traveling FTL doesn't count since Odin has to achieve those speeds withing battle distance.

Odin opening a black hole (needs to be proven though) has nothing to do with Surfer doing it. Ah I see, you're one of those funny guys who believes that if a character moves a great amount of distance while fighting, somehow it doesn't count as a combat speed feat. Also, Thor having those feats pretty much translates to his much more powerful father, especially considering he created most of the enchantments Mjolnir benefits from.

Old King Thor whose Odinforce was almost depleted could do it, you'd have to be a simpering moron to think Odin couldn't.

It has a lot to do with it actually, since it means Odin has control over the forces Surfer would try to kill him with.

Originally posted by JuggernautMania
But Hal is from DC. Marvel characters on KMC can have feats that they never presented, but DC characters such as superman getting intangible or moving at light speeds and having reflex at those levels does not count. That's how KMC is nowadays.

Honestly the idea that Surfer is just going to easily beat people who someone with the exact same powers as him x a million (and is also smarter and more experienced) has trouble with with, is laughable.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Ah I see, you're one of those funny guys who believes that if a character moves a great amount of distance while fighting, somehow it doesn't count as a combat speed feat. Also, Thor having those feats pretty much translates to his much more powerful father, especially considering he created most of the enchantments Mjolnir benefits from.

Old King Thor whose Odinforce was almost depleted could do it, you'd have to be a simpering moron to think Odin couldn't.

It has a lot to do with it actually, since it means Odin has control over the forces Surfer would try to kill him with. speed in itself is irrelevant since an object can obtain light speed or greater AFTER traveling millions of miles first. Can Odin reach light speeds within COMBAT distance from rest? If so prove it.

Originally posted by Lek Kuen
Honestly the idea that Surfer is just going to easily beat people who someone with the exact same powers as him x a million (and is also smarter and more experienced) has trouble with with, is laughable. no one has surfers speed and reflexes. That's the problem. Also we have fighting styles. I don't see skyfathers becoming intangible while fighting.

Originally posted by h1a8
Show me FTL combat speed and reflex feats by Odin.

Show me FTL combat speed and reflex by Galactus. Oh you can't? Welp I guess Surfer > Galactus.

Also show me FTL speed/reflex by The Living Tribunal as well.. ah none either? Welp, Surfer > LT.

Originally posted by h1a8

no one has surfers speed and reflexes. That's the problem. Also we have fighting styles. I don't see skyfathers becoming intangible while fighting.

Thanos must since he beats Surfer every time they meet. Also, sky fathers not becoming intangible while fighting doesn't mean they can't. They probably just refuse as theres no reason to do so. They are sky fathers after all. The Vision can become intangible too, but how often does he lose?

Everything.

Originally posted by zopzop
No, because we see how he performs against true Trans Tiers. He loses.

He's an elite High Herald and there's no shame in that.

You hit the nail on the head.

Originally posted by h1a8
actually skyfathers can't beat a no holds barred Surfer. Surfer has Ftl speed and reflexes. He can phase through any attacks or just avoid them with speed. He has black hole blasts that will outright kill any average Trans instantly.

...You never fail to surprise me. Do you actually think about the things you say? So you basically confirmed that Surfer is celestial tier.

Originally posted by dial J for Josh
...You never fail to surprise me. Do you actually think about the things you say? So you basically confirmed that Surfer is celestial tier. how can a skyfather beat a no holds barred Surfer when he will be operating at Ftl speeds and reflexes and phasing? And wtf are they going to do against a singularity?

Originally posted by h1a8
how can a skyfather beat a no holds barred Surfer when he will be operating at Ftl speeds and reflexes and phasing? And wtf are they going to do against a singularity?

Probably laugh. Yeah, I'm going to go with laugh.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
While you mods play your "jungle bunny rape fiction" games, the rest of the forum has to deal with that.

I'd take 10 Brucies over that

Agreed. You have my condolences.

An armbar

His durability is not up to snuff Odin dropped him with one shot Tyrant dropped him and Thanos beat him to death. He has the variety of powers. Also the people who write him give him the ability to fight Stranger for a bit yet loses to Odin or Thanos

He's fine where he is. He shouldn't be trans. Going up a notch would degrade his character

This is why

http://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss79/MoseyGod/8424_1136590140943_1413049612_30358.jpg

Bueno? You know things are bad when someone calls for the guy that raped GL.

Marvel Editorial+Surfer's track record against actual trans tiers beings.

Originally posted by tkitna
http://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss79/MoseyGod/8424_1136590140943_1413049612_30358.jpg I miss Kirby Surfer.