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Who wins?

Good thread.

Could Caiera withstand the spear? If she could...she wins a healthy majority. If not, she is losing.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Good thread.

Would really love to see this on panel. Calera was one of my favorite characters, had so much potential.

Proxima stomps , after she easily owned the Hulk

Originally posted by Insane Titan
Proxima stomps , after she easily owned the Hulk
Yup. Caiera was cool and all but what IT said can't be ignored. Going with Proxima too.

Originally posted by Insane Titan
Proxima stomps , after she easily owned the Hulk

I agree with you unless Caiera manages to get in close. This is where she excels. If Caiera manages this, Proxima would be hit with more punching power than she can handle over a prolonged period (seismic forces, coupled with her already huge strength). I think that it would be a great battle but Caiera was trained from a child to be an elite warrior.

All in all two very excellent characters that I would place right up there with Wonder Woman.

Originally posted by carver9
Could Caiera withstand the spear? If she could...she wins a healthy majority. If not, she is losing. Caiera can survive her entire body being vaporized

Originally posted by Stoic
I agree with you unless Caiera manages to get in close. This is where she excels. If Caiera manages this, Proxima would be hit with more punching power than she can handle over a prolonged period (seismic forces, coupled with her already huge strength). I think that it would be a great battle but Caiera was trained from a child to be an elite warrior.

All in all two very excellent characters that I would place right up there with Wonder Woman. and what proof do you have proxima can't handle the punching power

Originally posted by Insane Titan
and what proof do you have proxima can't handle the punching power

Well Caiera can hit pretty hard as seen when she hit the Hulk. Skaar was also able to utilize that kind of power, and her control over rock and other such materials could place Proxima in huge trouble. I'm not giving either a clear win, because I think that either could take it, but if Proxima gets in close, she would be hit by a huge seismic event. Skaar doesn't use the Old power anywhere as well as his mother, and he was able to harness over a billion tons of force in one hit. This in my opinion is better than what Proxima was doing when she fought Cage brother. You know what I mean?

Originally posted by Stoic
Well Caiera can hit pretty hard as seen when she hit the Hulk. Skaar was also able to utilize that kind of power, and her control over rock and other such materials could place Proxima in huge trouble. I'm not giving either a clear win, because I think that either could take it, but if Proxima gets in close, she would be hit by a huge seismic event. Skaar doesn't use the Old power anywhere as well as his mother, and he was able to harness over a billion tons of force in one hit. This in my opinion is better than what Proxima was doing when she fought Cage brother. You know what I mean? so no proof just speculation , k

Originally posted by Insane Titan
so no proof just speculation , k

Well it's actually all just speculation. Neither of them have too many feats. That weapon of Proxima's could be a big problem, but I wouldn't give her the auto win because of it. Proxima didn't show me that she could actually beat someone of this caliber either. Guess that makes both of our opinions on this nothing but speculation.

How many appearances/fights did Proxima have?

IIRC:

Attacking Wakanda
Fighting Cage
Fighting the Avengers with the other generals.

Is that it?

She one-shot Spectrum too while Spectrum was in her light form.

Originally posted by One-Punch
She one-shot Spectrum too while Spectrum was in her light form.

Her weapon did that. She didn't physically do that. It's a good feat, but...


Originally posted by DarkSaint85
How many appearances/fights did Proxima have?

IIRC:

Attacking Wakanda
Fighting Cage
Fighting the Avengers with the other generals.

Is that it?

Yes, and yes.

Originally posted by Stoic
Her weapon did that. She didn't physically do that. It's a good feat, but...

Not sure why you're so confused. This isn't a fist fight, Proxima is allowed to user her spear since it's standard equipment, so the feat counts.

Originally posted by One-Punch
Not sure why you're so confused. This isn't a fist fight, Proxima is allowed to user her spear since it's standard equipment, so the feat counts.

Who said that I was confused? Caiera is more powerful than Proxima. Having the ability to sate Galactus' hunger for an age. Even to the point that it put him into a deep sleep that would have continued if he wasn't awakened. Caiera could control the entire planet, and it isn't a certainty that she would not be able to use the environment to block any long range attacks. Caiera isn't the one trick pony that you may be alluding to. So to answer your statement, Caiera could turn this into an up close and personal battle. Proxima is also one it seems that enjoys this type of battle.

Originally posted by Stoic
Who said that I was confused? Caiera is more powerful than Proxima. Having the ability to sate Galactus' hunger for an age. Even to the point that it put him into a deep sleep that would have continued if he wasn't awakened. Caiera could control the entire planet, and it isn't a certainty that she would not be able to use the environment to block any long range attacks. Caiera isn't the one trick pony that you may be alluding to. So to answer your statement, Caiera could turn this into an up close and personal battle. Proxima is also one it seems that enjoys this type of battle.

Your post made it seem like you were discounting Proxima's feat of one-shotting Spectrum just because it was done by her spear. By that logic we can discount half of Thor's feats because they were done with Mjolnir, right?

Also when did Caiera have access to her entire planet's Old Power when she was alive? Give a reference.

Originally posted by One-Punch

Also when did Caiera have access to her entire planet Old Power when she was alive? Give a reference.

Well....her most recent version to my knowledge (something else could have happened that I don't know) was post planet hulk when she did have full control of the planet and didn't need a body. Just saying

Originally posted by Lek Kuen
Well....her most recent version to my knowledge (something else could have happened that I don't know) was post planet hulk when she did have full control of the planet and didn't need a body. Just saying

That's after her death. When did she have access to that power when she was alive?

Originally posted by One-Punch
That's after her death. When did she have access to that power when she was alive?
Doesn't matter, after her "death" she was still able to talk, fight, and die again. Sooo that counts unless stated otherwise

Originally posted by Lek Kuen
Well....her most recent version to my knowledge (something else could have happened that I don't know) was post planet hulk when she did have full control of the planet and didn't need a body. Just saying

Exactly. All of the Oldstrong were one with the planet that they walked, and could even feel or communicate on some level with those planets. She could do a variety of things with the Old Power to the point of helping a planet heal. Like I said from the get go though, I wouldn't give either of these girls a majority.

Originally posted by Lek Kuen
Doesn't matter, after her "death" she was still able to talk, fight, and die again. Sooo that counts unless stated otherwise

No even while she was alive, she had that kind of power. If anyone needs more clarity on how powerful an Old Strong is, just look at her sons. All Oldstrong were said to have been able to do the same thing with this power.

Originally posted by Lek Kuen
Doesn't matter, after her "death" she was still able to talk, fight, and die again. Sooo that counts unless stated otherwise
I'm pretty sure the OP meant for Proxima to fight with Caiera when she was alive (e.g., Planet Hulk), not after her death when she was a ghostly spiritual guide for Skaar. Kind of common sense if you ask me, but okay.

Originally posted by Stoic
No even while she was alive, she had that kind of power. If anyone needs more clarity on how powerful an Old Strong is, just look at her sons. All Oldstrong were said to have been able to do the same thing with this power.

Well she was blatantly more powerful after her initial death, that much is obvious. Weather by mental blocks or lack of training, after wwhulk arc she showed much more power and control than during it.

Before her death she didn't have access to her ancestors' Old Power, after her death she did, hence why she was more powerful in death. But she did give Skaar full access to this power, and Surfer beat the snot out of him and forcefully sealed the power away.

Originally posted by Lek Kuen
Well she was blatantly more powerful after her initial death, that much is obvious. Weather by mental blocks or lack of training, after wwhulk arc she showed much more power and control than during it.

More like restraint. We see how powerful Hiro Kala had become. This guy hijacked the Enigma Force. I agree though, she does appear to become far more powerful after she dies. I think that it was restraint though.

Originally posted by One-Punch
Before her death she didn't have access to her ancestors' Old Power, after her death she did, hence why she was more powerful in death. But she did give Skaar full access to this power, and Surfer beat the snot out of him and forcefully sealed the power away. Another example, the oldstrong in Hulk's posse didn't show that level of power either, nor the level of Hiro kala. He only showed a glimspe right before he died.

Originally posted by One-Punch
Before her death she didn't have access to her ancestors' Old Power, after her death she did, hence why she was more powerful in death. But she did give Skaar full access to this power, and Surfer beat the snot out of him and forcefully sealed the power away.

What? She gained access to the Old Power long before her death. Do you recall when the Spikes hit her village when she was a young girl? This is when she learned that she had the old Power, which is why the Red King sent the Spikes in the first place. He was trying to find an Old Strong iirc.

Originally posted by Stoic
What? She gained access to the Old Power long before her death. Do you recall when the Spikes hit her village when she was a young girl? This is when she learned that she had the old Power, which is why the Red King sent the Spikes in the first place. He was trying to find an Old Strong iirc.
I said she didn't have access to the her ancestors' combined old power until her death. Hence why she was more powerful in death, it had nothing to do with restraint.

Originally posted by One-Punch
I said she didn't have access to the her ancestors' combined old power until her death. Hence why she was more powerful in death, it had nothing to do with restraint.

Oh OK I didn't understand. I thought that you meant that she had no control over the Old Power until her death. And I think you're quite correct. At least from what was shown, but later we see a slight retcon or at least a subtle one on the range of power even one without the Ancestor's power could grant an Old Strong in terms of Skaar at least. Good catch, because I didn't realize what you guys were trying to tell me here.

Caiera wins.

Originally posted by Stoic
Well it's actually all just speculation. Neither of them have too many feats. That weapon of Proxima's could be a big problem, but I wouldn't give her the auto win because of it. Proxima didn't show me that she could actually beat someone of this caliber either. Guess that makes both of our opinions on this nothing but speculation. no yours is pure speculation as you're saying Proxima can't take Ciaras punches yet you have nothing to back that up with.

My opinion is based on that Proxima owned Hulk which is hard fact and we know Hulk is above her

Originally posted by Insane Titan
no yours is pure speculation as you're saying Proxima can't take Ciaras punches yet you have nothing to back that up with.

My opinion is based on that Proxima owned Hulk which is hard fact and we know Hulk is above her

The Hulk was fighting both her and Korvus, so she hardly owned him. The idea that he had the weight of a star on him, and wasn't face down on the ground was a good feat for him either way. All the same this is still all speculation, as neither of these characters have much in the way of feats. Don't get me wrong Proxima is a great character, and I'd like to see more of her, but I don't really know who would win. I do know that Caiera isn't a weak character, and can throw a mean punch, as well as being an elite warrior.

Originally posted by Insane Titan
no yours is pure speculation as you're saying Proxima can't take Ciaras punches yet you have nothing to back that up with.

My opinion is based on that Proxima owned Hulk which is hard fact and we know Hulk is above her

On the flip side:

Cage gave her a good H2H fight, and we know Caiera is above Cage. She was getting frustrated, unable to put him down.

Whereas (and this is pure speculation and twisting logic, so bear with me) Luke has been knocked over by Iron Fist before - who shattered his hand on another Old Power user, Hiroim. ABC logic, sure, so feel free to ignore it.

As for that spear, Cap managed to get his shield up in time, and a random Wakandan soldier managed to throw his entire body up and shield Shuri from it.

Will need to check my Planet Hulk, as that is the incarnation I am using - but Old Power Caiera could easily use the Earth to throw up barriers to shield herself.

Originally posted by Stoic
The Hulk was fighting both her and Korvus, so she hardly owned him. The idea that he had the weight of a star on him, and wasn't face down on the ground was a good feat for him either way. All the same this is still all speculation, as neither of these characters have much in the way of feats. Don't get me wrong Proxima is a great character, and I'd like to see more of her, but I don't really know who would win. I do know that Caiera isn't a weak character, and can throw a mean punch, as well as being an elite warrior. Corvus had moved on to Hyperion when she owned Hulk by herself

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
On the flip side:

Cage gave her a good H2H fight, and we know Caiera is above Cage. She was getting frustrated, unable to put him down.

Whereas (and this is pure speculation and twisting logic, so bear with me) Luke has been knocked over by Iron Fist before - who shattered his hand on another Old Power user, Hiroim. ABC logic, sure, so feel free to ignore it.

As for that spear, Cap managed to get his shield up in time, and a random Wakandan soldier managed to throw his entire body up and shield Shuri from it.

Will need to check my Planet Hulk, as that is the incarnation I am using - but Old Power Caiera could easily use the Earth to throw up barriers to shield herself. Luke has knocked out count Neferia with punches and done well against other class 100's.

The point is acting like Proxima can't handle punches at all is BS

Originally posted by Insane Titan
Luke has knocked out count Neferia with punches and done well against other class 100's.

The point is acting like Proxima can't handle punches at all is BS

True; I just am saying of her three appearances (Wakanda, New york and the final showdown):

Shuri managed to spear her, to quote h1a8, like water, through her shoulder:
http://oi39.tinypic.com/14bt7if.jpg

TBF, she shrugged it off, but so would the Punisher, for example.

Her awesome one shot kill spear was then intercepted by a random Wakandan soldier. Who managed to see it, shout 'Protect the Queen' twice and throw his body in front of it (note how he is behind her at first, assuming its the same soldier) and THEN get hit.

In New York, Cage was drawing blood:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11/114649/3492319-cage+vs+proxima+midnight.jpg

Though she DID down him temporarily until he found the heart force, plus wtfpwn Spectrum.

Then in the final showdown, she owned Hulk, then Cap managed get his shield up and deflect two (one?) of her spear shafts.

So on average, across these three incidents, I say she is below Caiera, based on the few instances we saw of Caiera in Planet Hulk.

She is Below Caiera AND Corvus was assisting her with Hulk...even during the time she used the spear on him (remember, he was slicing Hulk with that atom blade). She didn't fight Hulk alone, and even during that scene, Thanos also hit Hulk with a punch. If it was a solo fight, things probably would have went differently but that attack is a game changer but at the same time, she only used it once.

What ?

What would be differently if she "faced him alone" ????

Caiera didn't really face anyone in PH iirc other than a weakend Hulk though

Originally posted by carver9
She is Below Caiera AND Corvus was assisting her with Hulk...even during the time she used the spear on him (remember, he was slicing Hulk with that atom blade). She didn't fight Hulk alone, and even during that scene, Thanos also hit Hulk with a punch. If it was a solo fight, things probably would have went differently but that attack is a game changer but at the same time, she only used it once.
Hulk is tailor made for her spear. There's no two ways about it.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Hulk is tailor made for her spear. There's no two ways about it.

Can't disagree with that.

C