Vulcan vs. Dr. Strange

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byrdgang21
Who wins?

Magnon
In a direct confrontation, Vulcan.

Warlord
vulcan a la Warlock

Digi
Originally posted by Warlord
vulcan a la Warlock

Strange is NOT equivalent to this weaksauce incarnation of Warlock.

carver9
Vulcan wins and I think he brought up Warlock because it shows Vulcan can manipulate and control magical energy as well. Strange is screwed.

Digi
Originally posted by carver9
I think he brought up Warlock because it shows Vulcan can manipulate and control magical energy as well.

That was obvious. My point was that mage Warlock lacked any decent showings against this type of manipulation, whereas Strange, at least Classic, was not such a noob. It's a valid showing for those backing Vulcan here, but is far from an insta-win.

Warlord
Originally posted by Digi
Strange is NOT equivalent to this weaksauce incarnation of Warlock.

doesn't really matter. it seemed apparent to me that all it had to do with energy and he seemed to manipulate magic effortlessly. Strange would only mean more magic for him to manipulate. Oh and by the way I hate Vulcan

Estacado
Vulcan was pretty badass against Warlock and Boltagon.
Too bad he died.

carver9
Originally posted by Warlord
doesn't really matter. it seemed apparent to me that all it had to do with energy and he seemed to manipulate magic effortlessly. Strange would only mean more magic for him to manipulate. Oh and by the way I hate Vulcan

thumb up

Don't think this is a fight Strange can win. By the way, Vulcan is an amazing character.

Warlord
I disagree with the character but in a vs environment it's pretty obvious to me that he is having an edge against any energy based oponent (sorcerers, GLs, elementals etc)

Digi
Originally posted by Warlord
doesn't really matter. it seemed apparent to me that all it had to do with energy and he seemed to manipulate magic effortlessly. Strange would only mean more magic for him to manipulate. Oh and by the way I hate Vulcan

Not all magic is equivalent. Strange draws from multiple pantheons and dimensions. And it's debatable whether or not Warlock's "quantum magic" was indeed the same type of magic Strange uses. It was so vaguely described that it might have just been more traditional atomic energy manipulation.

We're not going to get anywhere in a "yes/no" debate here. My only point is that it's laughable to dismiss Strange entirely based on the Warlock showing.

Warlord
the rational is for me that Vulcan hasn't found a type of energy that couldn't manipulate. if Strange manages to properly complete a spell then he can win by the byproduct of this spell, however I can just see Vulcan manipulating/draining/redirecting Strange's energy before the spell is complete

Digi
Originally posted by Warlord
the rational is for me that Vulcan hasn't found a type of energy that couldn't manipulate. if Strange manages to properly complete a spell then he can win by the byproduct of this spell, however I can just see Vulcan manipulating/draining/redirecting Strange's energy before the spell is complete

Thinking too linearly. What happens if Strange decides to take the battle to the astral plane, or something even less exotic like going intangible? It's not just blast vs. manipulation.

Warlord
Originally posted by Digi
Thinking too linearly. What happens if Strange decides to take the battle to the astral plane, or something even less exotic like going intangible? It's not just blast vs. manipulation. could be... thing is I can't predict what can Vulcan do ith manipualting magic. Mess with the spells maybe? or maybe nothing at all?
In any case, I agree that Strange shouldn't be writen off here since magic is probably the most unpredictable type of energy in comics I guess.

Digi
Originally posted by Warlord
could be... thing is I can't predict what can Vulcan do ith manipualting magic. Mess with the spells maybe? or maybe nothing at all?
In any case, I agree that Strange shouldn't be writen off here since magic is probably the most unpredictable type of energy in comics I guess.

You're still too focused only on the manipulation. I just gave a couple possible avenues for a Strange victory that make Vulcan's manipulation impotent. There are undoubtedly others.

DarkSaint85
What would Vulcan do if Strange stops time???

carver9
Originally posted by Warlord
the rational is for me that Vulcan hasn't found a type of energy that couldn't manipulate. if Strange manages to properly complete a spell then he can win by the byproduct of this spell, however I can just see Vulcan manipulating/draining/redirecting Strange's energy before the spell is complete

thumb up this doesn't include the fact that he can control Strange energy from the inside out.

http://s209.photobucket.com/user/RespectThread/media-full/Vulcan/fights/fight%204/5.jpg.html

Vulcan power set gives him the ability to beat d*** near anybody.

carver9
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
What would Vulcan do if Strange stops time???

Provide those Battle fts.

MF DELPH
Strange goes full Zom and wins via face shattering punch.

Digi
Originally posted by carver9
Provide those Battle fts.

Go learn about Steve.

carver9
Originally posted by Digi
Go learn about Steve.

Lol...I know about him. I'm just asking a simple question. Does he have battle fts with him stopping time? If so, I'm OK with it.

carver9
Back to Vulcan.

He can create shields on a whim.

http://s209.photobucket.com/user/RespectThread/media-full/Vulcan/fights/fight%206/5.jpg.html
http://s209.photobucket.com/user/RespectThread/media/Vulcan/fights/fight%206/6.jpg.html

An eldest was getting his power from a billion people. Vulcan completely shut that off.

http://s160.photobucket.com/user/EndlessMike9/media-full//vulcanvseldest.jpg.html http://s160.photobucket.com/user/EndlessMike9/media-full//vulcanvseldest1.jpg.html

His control of energy doesn't have an equal. Can't see Strange winning this.

MF DELPH
Strange via Mindless Ones summoning.

Insane Titan
Vulcan IMO , his showing against Mage Warlock was impressive.

People tend to undersell Mage Warlock he had some good feats

Digi
Originally posted by carver9
Back to Vulcan.

He can create shields on a whim.

http://s209.photobucket.com/user/RespectThread/media-full/Vulcan/fights/fight%206/5.jpg.html
http://s209.photobucket.com/user/RespectThread/media/Vulcan/fights/fight%206/6.jpg.html

An eldest was getting his power from a billion people. Vulcan completely shut that off.

http://s160.photobucket.com/user/EndlessMike9/media-full//vulcanvseldest.jpg.html http://s160.photobucket.com/user/EndlessMike9/media-full//vulcanvseldest1.jpg.html

His control of energy doesn't have an equal. Can't see Strange winning this.

Originally posted by Digi
Thinking too linearly. What happens if Strange decides to take the battle to the astral plane, or something even less exotic like going intangible? It's not just blast vs. manipulation.

Others have added other viable scenarios, all of which are within his canon. In any case, your whole argument is based on Strange doing exactly what you want him to, when SO much else is at his disposal.

Branlor Swift
Strange isn't really magic though so you can't really drain him. He could drain some attacks sure, but as far as actually draining Strange like Warlock? Not seeing it.
He's essentially a human with vast magic knowledge. He's not really empowered by the magic. He can be, but he does not start that way.

A straight up assault might not work but it's not like the guy doesn't regularly attack people's minds. Plus it'd be interesting to see how far Vulcan's control goes if the Crimson Bands or the Rings come out.

DarkSaint85
Bran, don't you get it???

Vulcan has not shown any limit to what energies he can control. Cytorrak? Bah! He'll straight up control that shyte. I think there's a fallacy about it, but who cares?

Also, prove that he'd do it in battle. But as soon as you do, I'll poke fun at how old your scans are, even though it has no bearing on their validity.

There, summarised.

Warlord

DarkSaint85

Warlord
hmm fair enough... another important variable is whether Strange has knowledge of Vulcan's abilities. If he does he most probably won't use blasts and thus making things more difficult for Vulcan

DarkSaint85
Don't forget, mages in Marvel are mostly just normal people who have memorised all these different cheat codes for the universe - and know exactly when to use which spell.

Imagine you have memorised lyrics to every song ever written. And have been challenged to hold a conversation with someone using only the first lines of each song. Would you just repeat the opening lyrics to Hotel California over and over and over again?

Warlord
i'd rap him to death smile

DarkSaint85
Haha, for sure. But if you want to be worthy of the title Rapmaster Supreme, you can't just keep repeating the same line over and over again, correct? You'd actually have to adapt, change tactics, try different lyrics etc.

And so it is with Strange. He may or may not timestop (for example) as soon as the battle commences. He might. But he could equally come out blasting (assuming he doesn't know what Vulcan can do). When the blasting tactic fails.....would he continue blasting? Come now, he's not THAT stupid.

Warlord
totally agree... and pretty much I'm convienced. only open option for him (might or might not work) is to affedct the spells via magic energy manipulation. If this can't be done, he's srewed

DarkSaint85
Also, since no one called him out on it:

Originally posted by carver9


An eldest was getting his power from a billion people. Vulcan completely shut that off.

http://s160.photobucket.com/user/EndlessMike9/media-full//vulcanvseldest.jpg.html http://s160.photobucket.com/user/EndlessMike9/media-full//vulcanvseldest1.jpg.html


Where does it say a billion people? Vulcan says he draws power from his people - MAYBE his entire species. Also, how powerful are each of these people? I can draw on the absolute strength of a billion/million/trillion amoebas, it means nothing.

Being facetious? Perhaps. But it is absolutely conducive to this discussion, when one side is using this unquantifiable feat as a measure of his power. Cutting his mental link off also means squat. Luthor severed Swamp Thing's connection to the Green - so ST's ability to draw power from the entire UNIVERSE. With a device he drew on a napkin in 10 mins.

carver9
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Also, since no one called him out on it:



Where does it say a billion people? Vulcan says he draws power from his people - MAYBE his entire species. Also, how powerful are each of these people? I can draw on the absolute strength of a billion/million/trillion amoebas, it means nothing.

Being facetious? Perhaps. But it is absolutely conducive to this discussion, when one side is using this unquantifiable feat as a measure of his power. Cutting his mental link off also means squat. Luthor severed Swamp Thing's connection to the Green - so ST's ability to draw power from the entire UNIVERSE. With a device he drew on a napkin in 10 mins.

It was stated during that comic. Also, the guy was strong enough to break Gladiator wrist, EASILY, but, you made good arguments so I am at a 50/50 here. Good job Dark.

iceman24567
Strange

basilisk
I'm not convinced about Warlock and exactly what "quantum magic" was all about. The very fact they made a big deal about calling it that made me think whatever it was is different to anything Strange does.

As far a Strange goes, if he goes in just blasting he may well lose. But there are lots of other attacks, like opening up a portal into a dimensional plane where Vulcan's powers don't work or he just plain dies, sleep spell/vapors of valtor, astral plane, summoning creatures, intangibility, possibly creating poisons/toxins etc. Vulcan didn't do well against Gladiator - he had his limits.

carver9
Originally posted by basilisk
I'm not convinced about Warlock and exactly what "quantum magic" was all about. The very fact they made a big deal about calling it that made me think whatever it was is different to anything Strange does.

As far a Strange goes, if he goes in just blasting he may well lose. But there are lots of other attacks, like opening up a portal into a dimensional plane where Vulcan's powers don't work or he just plain dies, sleep spell/vapors of valtor, astral plane, summoning creatures, intangibility, possibly creating poisons/toxins etc. Vulcan didn't do well against Gladiator - he had his limits.

Vulcan was upgraded AFTER his fight against Gladiator. Even during that time, before falling, he took out the entire Shiar army of super humans (only a few was left standing). Before that he took out a team of X men with ease as well. He was clearly a team buster. The only time he really had trouble with people was during sneak attacks etc... face to face, everyone got wrecked.

Digi
Originally posted by carver9
Vulcan was upgraded AFTER his fight against Gladiator. Even during that time, before falling, he took out the entire Shiar army of super humans (only a few was left standing). Before that he took out a team of X men with ease as well. He was clearly a team buster. The only time he really had trouble with people was during sneak attacks etc... face to face, everyone got wrecked.

Good. Now respond to the other part of his post - the part that deals with non-direct ways Strange can win.

carver9
Originally posted by Digi
Good. Now respond to the other part of his post - the part that deals with non-direct ways Strange can win.

I already agreed with Dark that Strange could win with basic knowledge of the character. I don't think he would approach the fight in a way where Vulcan could screw around with his energy, but at the same time, Vulcan also have basic knowledge which leaves me undecided. If Strange approach this fight like he approaches every other fight, imo, he loses a high majority. If he fought in a way to avoid Vulcan energy control, then he could pull a high majority. It all depends on Strange mindset.

Vulcan is much faster though, so he does have the luxury of getting the first attack off and he always go for the kill.

Digi
Originally posted by carver9
I already agreed with Dark that Strange could win with basic knowledge of the character. I don't think he would approach the fight in a way where Vulcan could screw around with his energy, but at the same time, Vulcan also have basic knowledge which leaves me undecided. If Strange approach this fight like he approaches every other fight, imo, he loses a high majority. If he fought in a way to avoid Vulcan energy control, then he could pull a high majority. It all depends on Strange mindset.

Vulcan is much faster though, so he does have the luxury of getting the first attack off and he always go for the kill.

Basic knowledge of the character is granted, per forum rules. And within the reasonable limits of character portrayals, we also assume competent and intelligent use of powers. Ergo, Strange wins.

carver9
Originally posted by Digi
Basic knowledge of the character is granted, per forum rules. And within the reasonable limits of character portrayals, we also assume competent and intelligent use of powers. Ergo, Strange wins.

How is Strange going to prevent Vulcan from ripping the energy from.his body from the inside out? This doesn't include the fact that Vulcan can create illusions for Strange which will screw him up which will leave him opened to be attacked.

Digi
Originally posted by carver9
How is Strange going to prevent Vulcan from ripping the energy from.his body from the inside out? This doesn't include the fact that Vulcan can create illusions for Strange which will screw him up which will leave him opened to be attacked.

Lol at illusions working on any version of Strange. Eye of Agamotto, dude.

So the fight starts. Strange goes intangible, and is emanating no energy. What now? Then he summons an army of Mindless Ones and slows time in a localized area. Still no energy attacks. Then he attempts a mind-rape on the Astral Plane since hes bored. Still no energy. Vulcan's lone chance here is a OHK speedblitz. And for a character who has some speed but isn't known for it, and for a character in Strange who isn't put down quite so easily, it's a long shot.

DarkSaint85
Lol at attempts to appeal to Vulcan's versatility (energy rips? illusion casting??) as he faces one of the most versatile characters who, apparently, will be blasting energy.

WhiteWitchKing
Strange's magic is invoking actual spells that he calls from mystic beings. How does Vulcan drain Strange? Warlock's magic is his ability to channel this so called Quantum magic that flows through him. Strange just invoke spells that come mostly from another plane.

Strange destroys this clown. Strange teleports this clown into one of the hell realms.

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