KMC Mid-Herald Belt Battlezone: Abhilegend vs Smurph

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psycho gundam

psycho gundam

Magic Joe
Pardon me, but the contestants are allowed to post freely here. You don't have to post for them psycho.

psycho gundam
Ok. force of habit.

Digi can erase this message when he gets in here to keep the match clean of interruption

Existere
Hey Abhi, gentlejudges and all,

Before I start, disclaimer: I recently had my laptop stolen and I'm doing the bulk of my work from an iPad, which works surprisingly well. I'm hoping this will have zero bearing on the match, but if my image links aren't working (or are the mobile, hard-to-read version of the normal imageshack links) lemme know and I'll work around it. If you can see the same images I can, I am confident that it will be obvious how badly Cable rocks his competition in this match. smile

Anyways, let's get this party started.

I'm the defending champ, representing Cable in his God-like messiah persona straight from the initial 10 issues of 'Cable and Deadpool'. Cable is the same character as he always has been, just much more powerful, and so any feats of Cable's prior to his power up are valid as well, provided that he has the same equipment.

Cable's powers are vastly heightened here in comparison to his average. In his short appearance, God-like Cable accomplished the following messiah feats:

Rerouted water to flood half the Sahara

Threw all the loggers out of the Amazon rainforest

Straightened the leaning tower of Pisa (lol)

Stopped the white blood cell count from deteriorating in every AIDS victim in Africa

Stopped a daily average of 14 individual acts of terrorism, 11 hundred attempted murders, 7 thousand car accidents

Soothed the pain of every single person on the planet dying of any kind of disease


Levitated Providence, his massive island fortress/city. Providence was home to thousands, made from retrieved parts of the Graymalkin/Asteroid M space station and, in general, pretty huge:
http://marvel.wikia.com/Providence_(Island)?file=Providence.jpg


The above feats, sans Providence, are all referenced in this interview that Cable agreed to partway through godhood:
imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img225/6355/soothepain.jpg

For context, while I don't believe any comics have given an exact number, it is clear that Cable was in this messiah form for over a week (and I think quite a bit over a week, but a week is enough to make my point).

The last three bullets are all context sensitive, and so now we know the bare minimum of the scope and depth of Cable's 'miracles'.

Knowing that, I present three points that I will be basing much of my argumentation on for this debate:

Cable is capable of constant telepathy on a global scale. This is an obvious necessity to soothe the entire world of pain. In later posts, I can give evidence to the actual power that Cable carries in his noggin, but it's important to note that he is both an incredibly powerful and skilled telepath, even in passive feats such as these.

b) Cable is capable of multitasking on a level nearly unheard of even among KMC herald debates. The feats speak for themselves here, but Cable's ability to multitask is one of his biggest strengths in a KMC tourney match where he needs to provide simultaneous defence and offence.

c) God-like Cable has never been seen in a fight at full strength. He went up against Silver Surfer, fought across oceans, broke Surfer's board, lost. Fair enough, it's the Silver freaking Surfer... but, for what weight it holds, and I believe it holds quite a bit in this match: Cable wasn't rested, Cable had been performing miracles for days, and Cable is not in danger of burning out, as he was in that fight.

With those feats spoken for, I feel I've established character and I'm ready to jump into the match itself.

Prep Stuff

According to Belt Rules, Cable is informed 5 minutes prior to the match who he is facing - only names, and Nick Fury's briefing- and allowed some bare minimum of actions prior to the match. I'm writing this because I feel like it's somewhat unclear what's allowed and what's not with prep, so I'm going to walk through this:

As per previous matches, Cable is going to spend his 5 minutes erecting a super tough shield.

http://img804.imageshack.us/img804/1959/bulletshields.jpg

Unlike that scan, where a shield was created in response to gunfire, Cable is going to spend his whole 5 minutes making his shield and meditating.

Cable will prepare to make himself telepathically invisible to attackers as soon as the match begins. Given that Cable's telepathy is globe-spanning, there should be no time between the beginning of the match and his telepathic disappearance.
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img191/5803/invisibleo.jpg

With those two defensive measures taken, let the battle begin.

Battle

First, two items that I believe will dictate how this match will be viewed:


Reflexes
As I said in the match against Wonder Woman, if I were debating against Cable, one of my first lines of argument would be to claim that his reflexes were unable to deal with an assault from my character.

Well, setting aside the telekinetic shield and telepathic invisibility, even if a blitz were launched against Cable's God-like form, we can see that he is more than capable of dealing with it:

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img7/7079/surferblitz1.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img840/6006/surferblitz2.jpg

In those scans, he readies and responds to Silver Surfer's blitz from orbit.

I've zoomed on the dialogue for emphasis:

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img171/7339/zoomvaporize.png
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img15/879/humptydumpty.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img690/3382/humpydumpty2.jpg

Not only is Cable capable of responding to the blitz - while still levitating Providence -, he then speaks to how Surfer and he are sundering the environment around them at the atomic level, and repairing it immediately.

I submit that if Cable is capable of not only protecting himself from a blitz from Surfer, but also atomically restructuring their environment as soon as it is damaged, in a fight that takes them from Providence and across the pacific, then he is capable of the thinking speed required to summon basic defences against his opponents in this fight.

Telepathy

This is the second big tenant that I see dictating this match.

Before I start: I really, really don't believe that Abhi's attempts to make a Super-clone are going to work, for mostly logistical, but also rules-based reasons, but I'm going to get to that later. For now, let's ignore the looming question of whether or not Cable is facing one enemy or two, and focus on this scan:

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16777768/kryptonmanvssuperman_12.jpg.html

Abhi's Krypton Man, vs. Superman at the time that Krypton Man would have known him (and therefore, should a clone of Superman be made, it would be made in the image of the Superman in that scan).

"You -- you can 'hear' my thoughts?"
"Certainly. Did you forget we were once linked telepathically?"

This will be child's play. Not only does this Superman show zero forms of telepathic defence, Krypton Man himself has telepathy, which, by both definition and comic book tradition*, outlaws him from being immune to telepathy.

*Sage and Emma Frost are both examples of comic book characters who need to turn their telepathy off in order to establish an immunity to outside telepathy.

The previous two times that I've had to prove that Cable is the top mid herald character, I've been up against Wonder Woman and later Magneto, both opponents with established telepathic immunity of a sort. Abhi has drafted no such immunity, and I am happy to begin and end this match by pointing that out.

Even if telepathic defences exist - and I assume Abhi is going to say that they do, because he has no other route here beyond admitting my victory -, it's worth spending time stating that Eradicator is not up against a junior telepath here.

Cable's telepathy was truly God-like. I've shown that he was capable of sifting through the thoughts of the world, constantly soothing pain and preventing terrorism, murder and traffic accidents globally.

Talking actual telepathic might though, let's use a direct comparison:

Emma Frost is probably Marvel Earth's premier telepath, so long as Jean is dead and Xavier is out of combat.

When Emma and X-Men flew near the outer border of Providence. Emma was hooked up to the on-board Cerebra, boosting her telepathy by the power of 10. They ask if she's holding up, she replies that her psychic shields are barely holding, and notes that Cable has telepathically ionized the Earth's atmosphere.

So, the weight of Cable's mind is such that while he's performing his godly duties - soothing pain, helping citizens with their taxes -, Emma Frost can barely hold up a psychic shield despite the fact that he has focused utterly zero attention on her, and, on top of it all, his brain powerz have telepathically ionized the atmosphere. Now, that's comic book lingo, and has no quantitative value in this match, but relatively I think we can say

Cable's telepathy > Eradicator's telepathy, and unproven defences.



Conclusion
The match starts.

Cable instantly becomes telepathically invisible. He has a pre-established telekinetic shield that he will constantly repair and reinforce throughout the battle.

Cable mindphucks the hell out of his opponents. IF Abhi is at all successful in creating a Super-clone here (which, again I stress, I sincerely doubt and will speak to later), it will only serve to be detrimental when Cable assumes control of the clone's mind and turns a 1 vs. 2 match into 2 vs. 1.

Later, I'll address Cable's telekinesis, esoteric powers, and the numerous holes in my opponent's prep.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Existere
Hey Abhi, gentlejudges and all, Hey smurph.

All good and dandy I guess.

Oh, that would be good.

We'll see about that.

You are faced with another incredibly powerful and capable of multitasking opponent in Eradicator smurph. Just to reference how powerful Eradicator was, he was turning Earth's sun red, transmuting entire planet and beating the shit out of Superman at the same time. That's just an enormous leve of power.

And Superman is ****ing Superman. You're facing a sun amped Superman here. Good luck to you.

Ah, let's rock.

Making a shield to stop a sun amped Superman? Bad choice bro. Lets see how much a top Green Lantern's shield holds against Superman.

http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Strength/striking/adventuresof642a.jpg

Knocked the **** out with a single blow.

http://i.imgur.com/6OP60Zj.jpg

And John's Auto-shields can protect him from a planet blowing up and a supernova.

http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Cosmic_Odyssey_TPB_091.jpg

http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Cosmic_Odyssey_TPB_092.jpg

http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Cosmic_Odyssey_TPB_093.jpg

http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Cosmic_Odyssey_TPB_094.jpg

http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Cosmic_Odyssey_TPB_095.jpg

http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Cosmic_Odyssey_TPB_096.jpg

http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Cosmic_Odyssey_TPB_097.jpg

http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Cosmic_Odyssey_TPB_098.jpg

Like I told you once before, that's not what happened.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Random%20scans/CD003-16.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Random%20scans/CD003-17.jpg

So state of art technology can detect him. Eradicator will sure as heck do it.

You are trying to use a scene where Surfer actually blitzed him as a feat to say that he can avoid a blitz from sun amped superman?

haermm

I mean do you know who Superman is?

Superman has faster than nanosecond reflexes.

http://s1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/?action=view&current=NanosecondInteraction1.jpg
http://s1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/?action=view&current=NanosecondInteraction2.jpg

Another nanosecond feat. AOS 603

http://s1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/?action=view&current=superman_nano_second_reaction.jpg
http://s1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/?action=view&current=as603p19.jpg

Stops professor zoom into his tracks.

http://s1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/?action=view&current=TimeMasters-VanishingPoint5022.jpg

Makes a running jay garrick look like statue.

http://s1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/?action=view&current=JusticeLeagueofAmerica010-0203.jpg

And jay himself has nanosecond reflexes.

http://i.imgur.com/8aW6e8Z.jpg

We're not talking about slow ass Silver Surfer here, who has nearly no combat speed feats. We're talking about Superman, the guy who can race ****ing Flash to a near standstill and make another Flash look like a statue. And since its an amped Superman, I get all the feats he has.

Continued.....

abhilegend
GOT YA!!!

Ah, yes. Superman and Eradicator were telepathically linked and that link is what he's talking about.

And you got trapped in your own trap. I'll point that out shortly.

Its not Superman Cable is against which if I start using his TP resisting feats would fry Cable's mind. Its eradicator's mind in Superman's body he's up against.

I object milord. Lets look another way. You know the mysterious power up Superman got in 90's? Yeah, the astral combat technique known as T-vo. Yeah, the same technique which allowed him to to first stalemate Dominus.

http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Willpower/tvo/ManOfSteel089a.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Willpower/tvo/ManOfSteel089b.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Willpower/tvo/ManOfSteel089c.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Willpower/tvo/ManOfSteel089d.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Willpower/tvo/ManOfSteel089e.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Willpower/tvo/ManOfSteel089f.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Willpower/tvo/ManOfSteel089g.jpg

Untill Dominus distracted him. And then completely own him.

http://imgur.com/UWUv2l0
http://imgur.com/FUMM8FU
http://imgur.com/GBatPmo
http://imgur.com/g23epdU
http://imgur.com/TGJPdXO
http://imgur.com/lgd7zio
http://imgur.com/OHVnZn6
http://imgur.com/h1bvs5L
http://imgur.com/9OjPGYV
http://imgur.com/QJUnsRu
http://imgur.com/fFHqeA7
http://imgur.com/2qWvqZ4
http://imgur.com/It6aJ8d
http://imgur.com/0Xa4fAA
http://imgur.com/PqRcgAw
http://imgur.com/R7Zsy1U
http://imgur.com/BExJidu
http://imgur.com/ecTVnix
http://imgur.com/AOdoiVP
http://imgur.com/sIOfoaf
http://imgur.com/VAwjLUw
http://imgur.com/8fcVhsC

And Dominus was a multiversal level telepath. Casually dumping the information of an infinite multiverse in Superman's head.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/15777252/ccf0528201200007.jpg.html

If that wasn't enough, Superman literally overpowered God's will itself.

Superman overpowers God's will of making everyone forget that hal jordan was spectre by T-vo

http://s1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/?action=view&current=JLA207.jpg

http://s1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/?action=view&current=godswillvstvo.jpg
http://s1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/?action=view&current=godswillvstvo1.jpg

Now we've established Superman would push Cable's shit in astral combat using T-vo, right? Well. Superman was totally helpless against a fraction of Krypton Man's persona embedded in Fortress which Lois accidentally took to their apartment.

http://i.imgur.com/8oqKdj9.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/GsPT3DC.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Ws1vKn8.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/FGdiH4O.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ujkIdkz.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/KqOoBqn.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/dHOcOAe.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/CrblxTg.jpg

Which was the leftover consciousness of Eradicator in the fortress after Superman dissipated Krypton Man as stated here.

http://i.imgur.com/9ZqiCGS.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/tAnQt3V.jpg


So a minute fraction of Krypton Man overpowered Superman in astral combat while Superman can take down a multiversal telepath and defy God's will itself. Yeah, Cable and Emma Frost can go **** themselves.
Eradicator would see him perfectly. An amped Superman would oneshot any field he can create.

Cable tries that, Eradicator crushes his mind like a grape and shoves his God like head up his God like ass.

Yeah, I'm not even started here and the match already looks finished. Shame.

Existere
Looks like it's time to bust some myths. *knuckle cracking*

Smurph Post 2

In this post, I'm going to tackle the two very sketchy legs that Abhi stands on: Creating a Super-clone, and replicating T-vo. I believe that both tactics are very misleading and, upon scrutiny, not viable, but I'll let the judges ultimately decide that.

Here's how I see it:

Myth 1: Eradicator can clone and/or duplicate Superman in prep

Myth:

Abhi wants to create a separate, independently acting body during prep, replicating Sundipped Superman, using the above scans as evidence.

I don't believe he CAN create a clone, because I think he lacks two key components. I think even if he WERE able to create a clone, it would in no way be similar to Superman, and finally, if he were able to pull off his plan, I would argue that he would violate battlezone rules.

Problem by problem then:

First missing component: A separate entity

When Eradicator made the Superman-like body, he was attempting to create a body for himself to inhabit.

Eradicator has not willfully made a second body and occupied both of them. To be clear, in his last post, Abhi says:



It's clear that Abhi has brought one character into the battle (Eradicator), has attempted to create a second body (Superclone), and expects Eradicator to occupy both.

Only... he's never done that.

Abhi claimed that he has:



But what we see there is a version of the Eradicator that has merged with Dr. David Conner, which then merges with a version of the Eradicator that has merged with the fortress of solitude.

Confused yet?

Wikipedia lays it all out for us, including clear citations:
Krypton Man Wiki

"Following Superman's return, the Eradicator's apparently dead body is examined at S.T.A.R. Labs, and merged with Dr. David Connor, currently dying of a fatal disease. The merged Eradicator joins the Outsiders, and occasionally teams up with Superman.

Return(Separate Section)

The original Eradicator program is revealed to still exist in the Fortress of Solitude's computers and, following the destruction of the Fortress in Superman's battle with Dominus, the Eradicator program takes the form of Kem-L, and again attempted to brainwash Superman. The David Connor Eradicator realizes that the program is still active, and, when the Fortress Eradicator attempts to merge with the Brainiac-13 program to use the futuristic technology to recreate Krypton once again, merges with the remains of the Fortress to control it and take it from Earth."

What Abhi would LIKE us to believe is that Eradicator can willfully clone himself in separate bodies, not unlike The Engineer or Doctor Manhattan. Unfortunately for Abhi, Eradicator has never done this. In the above example, Eradicator's body merged with a human being, and separate programming merged with the Fortress computers, before they could exist in separate bodies. Not exactly what we were sold in Abhi's prep.

In one example, Eradicator creates a body and then inhabits it. In another, Eradicator's programming is split and already merged with separate entities. Without a clear separate entity to control the body, I'm unwilling to believe that Abhi's character can willfully duplicate it's programming and inhabit the husk of a body that it creates with matter manipulation.

Second missing component: Solar energy

When Eradicator made a Superman body to inhabit, he didn't do it on his own. As explained in each of these scans:

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16777278/createsclone_1.jpg.html

"Over thirty years of bio-converted solar energy is stored in this body. If I can't reclaim it... I'll forever remain an immaterial wraith"

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16777282/createsclone.JPG.html

"My energies joined with those stored in the body"

I submit that Eradicator did not perform this feat under his own power, but rather could ONLY do it by combining his energies with Superman's and, by his own admission, could not have made a separate body without them. If it wasn't for thirty years of stored energy, Eradicator would still just be an energy ghost. He doesn't have access to said energies here.

OK, so we know Abhi is missing both 30 years of stored energy and a separate mind to occupy or merge with his husk creation. I think that alone should be enough to debunk this, but I'm willing to take the analysis further: even if Eradicator could make a separate body, it wouldn't be Superman's.

The clone was imperfect

In the example where Eradicator manipulated Superman's bio energies, created a body and inhabited it, (AKA the example that Abhi uses to claim Eradicator can successfully create a clone), the clone was imperfect.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16777282/createsclone.JPG.html

"But my new body was not perfect. My eyes were light-sensitive... I could no longer directly channel the power of the sun."

Remember how Abhi wants a sundipped Superman?

Next problem...

No Superman memories = no Superman

Originally posted by abhilegend
I mean do you know who Superman is?

Superman has faster than nanosecond reflexes.


Another nanosecond feat. AOS 603


Stops professor zoom into his tracks.


Makes a running jay garrick look like statue.

And jay himself has nanosecond reflexes.

http://i.imgur.com/8aW6e8Z.jpg

We're not talking about slow ass Silver Surfer here, who has nearly no combat speed feats. We're talking about Superman, the guy who can race ****ing Flash to a near standstill and make another Flash look like a statue. And since its an amped Superman, I get all the feats he has.




You can't have it both ways, Abhi. You've made it clear this isn't Superman, which means we're very explicitly NOT talking about Superman, and you get none of the feats Superman has.

I threw all the speed feats together for this point, but it applies to punching, etc. Anything learned, this guy doesn't have.

FINAL SUPERCLONE PROBLEM: If Abhi pulled it off, it would be illegal.

Originally posted by psycho gundam

5. No duplication.


If Abhi could create a clone Kryptonian body, duplicate his programming, inhabit it... it would be a plain rule violation. Even if the second body has separate powers, it's surely in the spirit of the rule that "splitting off his programming to occupy a second Superman-like body" is meant to be disallowed.



Myth 1 Recap:

Abhi would like to create a clone of Superman and sundip him. I don't believe he can because he is missing both a mind to occupy that body and 30 years of solar energy to make it powerful. This is further complicated because the only clone that Eradicator has created was an imperfect copy that could not absorb solar radiation (and therefore not be sundipped) and finally, would not have Superman's memories, which means Abhi certainly does not get any of Kal's feats.

Finally, if it all were successful, I would argue it illegal.

Existere
NEXT MYTH!

Myth 2: Krypton Man can use Torquasm-Vo

This mythbusting is shorter, mainly because there's less at play here, and the busting is much more to the point:

The incarnation of Eradicator that Abhilegend drafted has never used T-vo.

Let's jump back to Wikipedia:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eradicator_(comics)#The_Krypton_Man

Eradicator, as Krypton Man, was an energy being (hence Abhi's use of intangibility). This is clearly referenced on the Wikipedia article, and backed up by Abhi's own scans.

This Eradicator never demonstrated T-vo. Abhi has referenced Superman's fight with Dominus to illustrate Eradicator's telepathic superiority and just how powerful that makes him, but Dominus didn't come in to play until Action Comics 747... nearly 100 comics after Action Comics 642, when Eradicator was Krypton Man, messing around with the Earth's sun.

In that time, Eradicator went through two major character changes.

The first happened after Eradicator had his mind put back together, and absorbed memories from the Fortress of Solitude:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16777282/createsclone.JPG.html

The second happened after Eradicator was again destroyed, and then merged (separately) with David Connor and the Fortress of Solitude.
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16777386/davidvsfortress_6.jpg.html

Wikipedia clearly lays out these changes in identity, as does Abhilegend's own Eradicator respect thread.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=585912&pagenumber=1

Krypton Man Eradicator clearly had a different powerset. He demonstrates telepathy in this power set, using illusions on Superman and mindwiping some noob, but never demonstrated t-vo, until multiple iterations and identity changes later, including having his mind reformed twice, his body merged with other beings twice, and his powerset changing drastically each time.

Notably, this version of Eradicator boasts intangibility, while the others do not. I submit that Krypton Man does not have t-vo, and certainly cannot use t-vo while intangible, because he's never done that before, because he's never had both powers at once.

T-vo, by Abhi's scans, requires the entire concentration of it's user. Note how Superman could barely use heat vision and needed Lois to save the day, because he was so absorbed in the mental battle.

Cable, meanwhile, can do thousands of separate telekinetic and telepathic actions at once, and it will be utterly simple for him to fend off any telepathic intrusion while smashing Eradicator's not-so-intangible body to bits and pieces with his telekinesis.



OK guys, I gotta run, but later I'll get to Cable's TK, and other powers he has on board (Deadpool's healing factor, anyone?)

Later sk8rs.

abhilegend
Abhilegend post 2.

Originally posted by Existere
Looks like it's time to bust some myths. *knuckle cracking* And looks like its time to bust some mythbusting.



I don't think so.

Sure.

We're not using characters as they have appeared in comics, leave that argument for vs forum.



Yes.

haermm

You must've never seen the fortress Eradicator fighting David Conner. Or maybe this never happened too?

http://i.imgur.com/NjOwGtb.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/B2433A7.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/TJbeFQb.jpg

Kem-L persona of Eradicator creates a whole new body for himself, just like he does it here from a mere piece of Fortress material.

http://i.imgur.com/8oqKdj9.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/GsPT3DC.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Ws1vKn8.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/FGdiH4O.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ujkIdkz.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/KqOoBqn.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/dHOcOAe.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/CrblxTg.jpg

And yeah, David Conner was shown in the same issue.

http://i.imgur.com/Vg3yAaX.jpg

I'm sorry, but that was a laughable rebuttal.

What's this "a version of Eradicator" crap? Eradicator had actually absorbed the mind of David Conner.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16774954/assimilatedavid_1.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16774962/assimilatedavid_2.jpg.html

But as stated here, when Fortress computers re-assimilated Eradicator after Superman destroyed his essence. not all of his essence was recreated.

http://i.imgur.com/9ZqiCGS.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/tAnQt3V.jpg

98.73% only. The rest was still embedded in Fortress.

Hahaha, ****ing wikipedia? Seriously?

Hahaha, what a weak argument. I gave several examples of Eradicator using separate bodies simultaneously. Judges can see it for themselves.

Of course you don't. Its clear that Eradicator can create separate bodies and inhabit them simultaneously.

Seriously? Do you know why he had to do that? His essence was destroyed and he was essentially powerless. Hell, he didn't even knew who he was and believed himself to be Superman.

http://i.imgur.com/x3OpcTG.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/UwNCfSl.jpg
I'm sorry, being powerless doesn't mean he can't do it when he is powered by the ****ing sun itself. He isn't an energy ghost in Krypton Man's persona. He has the access to sun's core itself.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16775003/channelsun_1.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16775023/channelsun_2.jpg.html

And as you can see, he can create a ody for himself in instants here.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16777728/kryptonmanvssuperman_4.jpg.html

A barely alive Superman who had depleted his energies fighting Doomsday doesn't has more energy than ****ing sun itself. Weak argument again bro.

That's some reaching there bro.

Because Eradicator was amnesiac. When he created a body for himself while fully powerful and had full memory, he could effortlessly channel sun.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16777728/kryptonmanvssuperman_4.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16775003/channelsun_1.jpg.html

And the kryptonians he created could do that too.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16780888/transformplanetb13_2.jpg.html

http://i.imgur.com/eH2CFer.jpg


It would be utterly laughable to suggest that if a fully coherent Eradicator creates a kryptonian body, it would be defective. There is nobody who knows more than eradicator about Kryptonian physiology.

Sunamped Superman. Sundipped Superman would be too much.

Then its good that Eradicator has all the memories of Superman stored in it? When it mindlinked Cleric and Superman. it stored all the memories and transferred it to Cleric.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16777851/linksminds.jpg.html

Totally wrong.

abhilegend
Continued.....

I don't think Duplication means you can't create another construct. I'm not duplicating Eradicator's powers after all, I'm creating a construct with separate powers with non-offensive matter manipulation. I have broken no rules.

Debunked all of that. Honestly, your arguments were fairly weak.

I don't. Its perfectly legal. I haven't duplicated powers, I have used non-offensive matter manipulation and there is no rule broken.

smile

Originally posted by Existere
NEXT MYTH!

Myth 2: Krypton Man can use Torquasm-Vo

This mythbusting is shorter, mainly because there's less at play here, and the busting is much more to the point:

The incarnation of Eradicator that Abhilegend drafted has never used T-vo. I'm sorry but WTF?

And the energy of that being was lived in Fortress of Solitude. But once again lulz @ using wikipedia.

Eradicator's leftover persona used T-vo. If a minute fragment of Eradicator can use T-vo, Eradicator can use it pretty well himself.

http://i.imgur.com/9ZqiCGS.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/tAnQt3V.jpg

Only 98.73% of Eradicator's own essence was retrieved from Fortress which had absorbed it after Superman destroyed it. The rest lived on in the fortress and that's how it manifested itself in Clark's apartment when Lois brought a fragment of it.

http://i.imgur.com/dHOcOAe.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/CrblxTg.jpg

It can't be more clear than that. It was the same Krypton Man persona of Eradicator, trying to brainwash Superman and recreate Krypton.

Totally irrelevant to the topic here. The persona of Krypton Man lived in the Fortress of Solitude.

And you think I don't know about that? You are grossly misdirecting everybody here.

Not really. The persona embedded in Fortress of Solitude never got through any changes.

Not really. I have proved it was the Krypton Man persona who used T-vo on Superman.

Because he was a n00b. Eradicator is a master of T-vo who can totally pwn Superman in T-vo, transmute Clark's apartment, control kryptonian machinery and whatnot. Totally different users.

he can try. While Eradicator smashes his brain into a puddle and transmutes him into a statue like this.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16780910/transmutation_6.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16780906/transmutation_5.jpg.html



I'll wait with dread like always.

haermm

Existere
I see we've reached that "Haha weak argument bro" part of the debate. Lol, k, 'bro'.

Smurph Post 4: Hammer or Scalpel

I'm gonna focus on Cable's TK for a bit, and revisit telepathy in order to give full focus to his offensive options here.

I believe that telepathy alone is enough to win this battle, but I'm happy to show how either half of Cable's powerset can win this battlezone for me.

Telekinesis! nuts

Important stuff here:

We've covered how Cable, prior to his fight with Surfer, performed miracles for over a week, including levitating Providence for 24/7 throughout this time period.

We've covered how, during the fight with Surfer, Cable was performing atomic restructuring of everything they passed, including military ships filled with people.

Other feats that I think are really important:

http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/275/cablesmash2.jpg

BREAKING SURFER'S BOARD!!!!

smile

Mostly I think it's important to realize that Cable just has a ridiculous amount of power to bring to bear in this match.

He can use this telekinetic might as a hammer or a scalpel. We can see that he is incredibly unlimited in his application of this power.

I'm going to take that application one step further, and I think that step is really important for determining the outcome of this battle:

Abhi's Krypton Man is a man made of energy.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16777725/kryptonmanvssuperman_2.jpg.html
"I am composed of pure energy. My form and all it's variations are quite malleable"

Excellent smile

Abhi has stated that Krypton Man will be intangible from the start of this battle. To be clear, his 'intangible form' is a mass of energy

Well, guess what Cable can manipulate with his telekinesis?

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img444/4773/redirectblast.jpg

In the above scan, Cable redirects an energy blast with his telekinesis (also a very good reaction speed feat, given that the blast was inches from it's target), and zigzags it around others to a target of his choosing.

That was pre-messiah Cable.

God Cable:
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img23/7818/containmissiles.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img201/218/containmissiles2.jpg

In the above scans, he contains and funnels the energy from 247 missiles and fairly casually at that. Note that, as always, he's still levitating Providence in these scans.

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h50/Rawrcore/scans/Cable/cable-lightmaster7.jpg
Here, he control's Lightmaster's body as well, manipulating the photons as he chooses (for context, he uses Lightmaster to convert a virus into photons and transmit it around the world, to turn everybody pink... it's a lil weird)

We know Cable's application of telekinesis is nearly unlimited. We know he can manipulate it incredibly finely (atomic restructuring feats) and with utter brute force (Surfer's board), and we can see clearly that he can affect MANY things at once, and among those, energy forms.

Krypton Man is going to start the battle as an intangible energy form. I am going to grab his form telekinetically, and sunder it- rip it apart with all the force needed to break Surfer's board and levitate Providence for a week, and send the different atoms hurtling across the battlefield.

That should win the battle on its own, but because I'm happily on a roll, let's move on to telepathy

Existere
Telepathy! xomfg

I really, really see T-Vo as a non-issue, given that Abhi has drafted a character with an energy body, intangibility and telepathy; a different power set than any other Eradicator, and this incarnation of Eradicator never used T-Vo.

I'll address Abhi's protests regarding this in a moment. First, I'm going to cover telepathy and how it impacts this battle, both in comparison to T-Vo and in the many forms of attack and defence that telepathy encompasses that have nothing at all to do with T-Vo.

Telepathy uses:
Telepathic Invisibility



Well... no. In the scans, it's clear that Cable's telepathic invisibility didn't work because he was technologically detected... but this is where technology betrays us.

The Eradicator has telepathy. A basic security camera does not. A security camera could have detected Cable in those scans because he was telepathically invisible; things that don't have a mind cannot be fooled, security cameras included.

By virtue of having telepathy, we know Eradicator can be fooled. It doesn't matter how 'state of the art' his programming is, Cable can control what visual/aural/etc input reaches the central mind/programming/whatever the analogy at hand is.

Every acting component of this battle has a mind, potential constructs included. All minds are Cable's to play with.

Cable starts this match completely undetectable by his opponents, and will remain that way throughout the match.

Illusions

Related to the previous point, Cable can, and will, combine telekinetic and telepathic assaults with manipulations of his opponent's senses. Not only will Eradicator be clueless as to where Cable is, he'll sense dozens of false Cables, and pretty much whatever else I want - Kryptonians, X-Men, etc.

Mindblasts/Psiblasts

An easy route to take, and a totally valid form of psychic attack that doesn't require engaging in prolonged mental combat/T-Vo.

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img475/8927/cable039167ie.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img475/1237/cable039175of.jpg

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/9676/cable10518fp2.jpg

Suggestions

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img506/9236/cable011197du.jpg
"... a telepathic nudge" to turn Colossus' powers off

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j105/Rewmac/Scans/14.jpg
Does the same to Cannonball

Short burst suggestions like these are not matter of engaging in prolonged psychic combat, but a sucker punch during physical combat, and totally within Cable's ability to employ during this fight.

Suggestions could include "Become tangible!", "Stop your attack", etc.

Telepathic Combat: A Hammer or a Scalpel

OK, time to address T-Vo:

http://i.imgur.com/Ws1vKn8.jpg

^This is Kem-L, an incarnation of the Eradicator that attacked Superman, and existed via a small piece of machine from the Fortress, and was defeated when that piece was destroyed


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_6xoH967aC00/TUC47b4yMWI/AAAAAAAAccM/e0rCZ1MpH44/s400/reign099.jpg

^This is Krypton Man, an incarnation of the Eradicator as an energy being. This version of the Eradicator came to be after Superman destroyed the Eradicator's programming and threw Eradicator into the sun.

As an energy being, Krypton Man has a powerset unique when compared to every other version of Eradicator.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16777728/kryptonmanvssuperman_4.jpg.html

"My fusion with the sun's core resulted in a unique rebirth."

Krypton Man used powers Eradicator would never use again, and he never used powers that Eradicator would use in his later incarnations - including T-Vo.

Superman beat Krypton Man by using a mystical crystal to disperse his remains in July 1991. Eradicator, as Kem-L, attacks Superman with T-Vo in a comic from the year 2000.

It's not my job to speculate comic-book reasons for why he could develop new powers - certainly, Eradicator does this in every new form he takes.

If I were speculating, I'd say that accessing Fortress computers and bonding/living through Fortress technology for a decade could all be significant factors in changing Eradicator's powerset.

Real talk, I know the reason that Krypton Man never used T-Vo is because he existed a whole decade before T-Vo was invented.

It is fallacious and misleading to attribute powers to Krypton Man that he never showed. Eradicator is a character whose powerset has changed over the years and - just as if I had drafted Psylocke or Ultron - we can't draft a character and give them powers that they developed 10 years later, with a different appearance, body composition, name, etc.

I can't stress enough how black and white this issue is, but because I've been in these debates before, I'm going to go ahead and argue what would happen if Krypton Man COULD use T-Vo in this battle:

Originally posted by abhilegend

So a minute fraction of Krypton Man overpowered Superman in astral combat while Superman can take down a multiversal telepath and defy God's will itself. Yeah, Cable and Emma Frost can go **** themselves.


I reject the ABC logic that Abhi employs here. I totally respect Superman's feat of defeating Dominus through T-Vo, but it's not Eradicator's feat, and it's faulty to apply it to him.

Cable's whole character history is built around psi-combat, and his feats include, at one point or another, taking on Jean Grey, Xavier, Apocalypse, Stryfe, Mr. Sinister and X-Man in psi battle. Because his power levels vary, often these characters are above his pay grade (given that he usually sits around mid meta), and yet Cable frequently comes out looking good, because sticking it to people above him is who he is. Eradicator is also capable of looking good against opponents that are superior to him, and that is what happens in those scans.

It would be faulty to apply X-Man or Xavier's feats to God Cable, even if God Cable proved to be a superior psi, because they're not his feats, just as Eradicator never went up against Dominus or 'God's will itself'. I'm not going to lambast Superman's feats of mental power, I just want to emphasize that they are not Eradicator's feats, and, as we all know VERY well, taking it to Superman does not mean that you can beat the people that Superman has beaten.

He is, after all, Superman.

To emphasize my point, Superman uses T-Vo to casually fool Eradicator with an illusion, despite this version of Eradicator being a more developed, stronger form of the one that attacked Superman with T-Vo previously:

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16777607/fortressvssuperman_11.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16777608/fortressvssuperman_12.jpg.html

The mighty psi Eradicator, struck with 'super-hypnotism'. Cable should be fine in this match.

If Abhi would like to go feat for feat in psionic combat between Cable and Eradicator, we can do that- but he's already played his only card, and I have literally a character history spanning over 28 years to pull from, featuring a character whose shtick is psionic combat.

And here he's at his most powerful.

Here Emma Frost w/Cerebra notes that psionic shields are barely holding, and says that Cable has ionized the entire planet with his telepathy, and is listening to every thought in the world.

Here* Cable reveals that he knows the whole plan, meaning the psionic shields never did hold, and he simply allowed Emma Frost to believe it.

Here he casually reads Scott's mind, even though Emma shielded it with Cerebra.

*Deadpool references 'gravity generators' for Providence. It's revealed later that no such generators exist, and Cable has been levitating the island with telekinesis the entire time.

Cable is, without a doubt, the superior psi with more numerous and superior feats. He can wield his telepathy with precision - using illusions, suggestions and well-timed psiblasts- or he can wield his telepathy like a hammer, and just smash Eradicator's mind to paste. Eradicator's ONLY feat demonstrating telepathic power is from a version of Eradicator that appears a decade later than the one Abhi drafted, and is about stalemating Superman with T-Vo, nothing more.



Conclusion: At best, Eradicator's mind isn't instantly shattered, and he's able to focus on fending off God Cable's telepathic attack long enough to feel Cable rip his body apart with telekinesis. Eradicator at no point in this match has a fighting chance against Cable, through telepathy or otherwise. He has no ability to detect Nathan, much less launch an assault.

In all likelihood though, this match ends the moment that Cable gets a grip on Krypton Man's mind. If not, it ends when his TK grips Krypton Man's body.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Existere

Telepathy!

I really, really see T-Vo as a non-issue, given that Abhi has drafted a character with an energy body, intangibility and telepathy; a different power set than any other Eradicator, and this incarnation of Eradicator never used T-Vo. Totally wrong. Repeating yourself doesn't makes you right.

And that's where Cable's telepathy betrays him. You know, people whose thoughts are pure light can't be detected by Cable's telepathy.

http://i.imgur.com/un9UKe6.jpg

Guess what and who is Eradicator?

Haha, that's some reaching right there. Eradicator has electronic senses and is clearly a program. Just because he has telepathy doesn't means he is suddenly lacking in his senses. And Cable's TP can't lock on energy beings anyway.

excellent
No he can't. He has never done it and one time he encountered an energy being, he failed miserably.

Superman's enhanced senses and Eradicator being immune to Cable's TP beg to differ.

He can't. Case dismissed.

Totally useless on a program. Eradicator isn't a living being/doesn't has the usual mind of a human being and psi-blasts on machines are totally useless.

Now you just have to prove that he can do that to someone who is totally immune to his telepathy due to his lightspeed thought patterns and being a program.

Nope.

Not an incarnation of Eradicator, just the leftover essence of Krypton Man.




That's actually an image of Superman. But no cigars for you. I already proved a part of Eradicator used T-vo. Its inane to think the fully powered Eradicator can't.
Waah, waah. Repeat yourself a thousand times more. it wouldn't change one thing.

Nice job sherlock.

That's not a new form, not even close. But if you really think only that form of Eradicator could use T-vo, THINK AGAIN.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16777607/fortressvssuperman_11.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16777608/fortressvssuperman_12.jpg.html

Even a totally insane Eradicator can use T-vo. So, no. It wasn't a new power-up for Eradicator.

That's just a speculation. I would like you to prove that.

And his essence used T-vo when it was invented. So he can do it too.

A total strawman. Remain on topic.

Continued..........

abhilegend
Continued......

So essentially, Superman's feat does't apply to............ Superman? What a load of BS. If a telepath beats Xavier and Cable beats that telepath, Cable is automatically better than Xavier. Its just that simple.

Hahaha, Superman flat out says that he can't stop Eradicator in T-vo.

http://i.imgur.com/8oqKdj9.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/GsPT3DC.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Ws1vKn8.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/FGdiH4O.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ujkIdkz.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/KqOoBqn.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/dHOcOAe.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/CrblxTg.jpg

Eradicator even said he was an amateur. That's not talking to a superior. That's talking to an inferior.

Beating Superman in T-vo means exactly that. You're welcome to use X-man or Xavier's feats. Dominus shits on all of them.

Because that's the mind of David Conner. Who had went insane after seeing Imperiex destroy galaxies and nearly killed.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16777506/fortressspeed_1.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16777507/fortressspeed_2.jpg.html

Context bro.

Not really. That's not Kem-L who was the persona behind Krypton Man. That's David Conner who was literally insane.

And who would get his ass kicked by that card alone.

And Dominus was sending information of a ****ING MULTIVERSE in Superman's mind.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/15777252/ccf0528201200007.jpg.html

That's so much above Emma or Cable, its not even funny. Superman could easily pwn him and he was no match for Eradicator in combat.

Means nothing to the level of psi Eradicator is packing.

Bwahahahaha. Oh the delusions of grandeur. Cable can't even lock on Eradicator's thought patterns. Eradicator can walk up to him and shatter his mind and crush it and Cable wouldn't be able to do anything to him.



crylaugh

So, Eradicator shatters Cable's mind who has no chance at all to touch his mind or able to manipulate his energy form. While he is transmuting Cable into a statue, sunamped Superman punching him into paste, bombarded with energy blasts which can oneshot Superman.

Pick an option which you like more.

abhilegend

abhilegend

abhilegend
Unofficial post. Please discard this section.

Originally posted by abhilegend
And simultaneously Eradicator starts transmuting Cable. As you know, Cable has no defense against transmutation. In fact he was totally helpless against the Facade virus transmuting him.

http://i.imgur.com/IvqWOe0.jpg

And blocked his powers.

http://i.imgur.com/3ZvSvgX.jpg

As stated here.

http://i.imgur.com/svRVSad.jpg

Sure, Deadpool's HF saved him. But even Deadpool's HF can't save Cable from being turned into a statue.

Cable can atomize and restructure matter on a city-wide scale as shown against Surfer..................but Eradicator is a planetary level transmuter. Even the less powerful Eradicator construct could give and take away powers by transmuting human bodies.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16783249/jimmyelastic.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16777105/constructvssuperman_6.jpg.html

Again.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16777217/constructvssuperman_22.jpg.html

And about to tear the whole planet apart.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16783261/ripearthapart.jpg.html

This more powerful version can transmute the whole planet.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16775003/channelsun_1.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16775023/channelsun_2.jpg.html

On a minute level, create skyscrapers.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16780891/transmutation_1.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16780894/transmutation_2.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16780896/transmutation_3.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16780900/transmutation_4.jpg.html

Randomly transmuting human bodies into stone.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16780910/transmutation_6.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16780906/transmutation_5.jpg.html

And most impressively creating a kryptonian body from stone.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16777278/createsclone_1.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16777280/createsclone_2.jpg.html

So yeah, Eradicator transmutes Cable into a statue.

I somehow forgot there would be no offensive matter manipulation. I blame the hangover from last night.

embarrasment

Existere
We're getting into the real quote war part of the debate. I'm gonna try and keep arguments grouped thematically so our thoughts are easier to follow, sorry judges if I'm jumping around a bit.

Telepathy, T-Vo (Again!)

The telepathy debate is starting to become extremely circular, which is an indication to me that Abhi can't tackle any of the points raised. I've offered significant evidence and reason to doubt that Krypton Man ever had T-Vo, and Abhi has stuck his fingers in his ears and shouted "Nah!", probably because trying to sneak T-Vo in was Abhi's entire reason for drafting this character.

I've then pointed out that Eradicator's ONLY T-Vo feats are:

a) edging out Superman, who he calls an amateur
b) later getting fooled by Superman's illusion via T-Vo

The only way that a) becomes impressive is if we apply ABC logic, and I'm happy to point out how silly that is, later in this post. In the meantime, appreciate that Abhilegend defends ABC logic with fervor because it's the resting point of his entire mental defense.

I'm going to tackle the only new points that Abhi has raised in response, and then move on from the telepathy discussion. If Abhi is unwilling to either respond to my post, bring new evidence, or concede defeat, then I'm happy to let the judges decide from here.

Originally posted by abhilegend
And that's where Cable's telepathy betrays him. You know, people whose thoughts are pure light can't be detected by Cable's telepathy.

http://i.imgur.com/un9UKe6.jpg

Guess what and who is Eradicator? Where in that scan does Cable say he can't detect Lightmaster's thoughts? He wasn't shielded and he was suckerpunched, and says "good move". That's all you've got here. Notably, he was still fine.

I want to bring up the second time Abhi references Cable's fight with Lightmaster, even though it's off the topic of telepathy and onto the topic of telekinesis vs. energy beings, so bear with me while I jump ahead a bit:



As this debate has progressed, my opponent has gone from giving me empty condescension to outright vitriol, and mostly I don't mind because it's a KMC Belt Battle (that he's losing), but it's really annoying to be called a liar.

Here's the whole fight:

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img28/5841/lansky.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img818/8033/lansky2.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img811/5803/lansky3.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img72/8145/lansky4.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img12/9646/lansky5.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img528/2407/lansky6.jpg

Here's what I said about it:



All that I said was that Cable manipulated Lightmaster's energy form (as Abhi pointed out, Lightmaster is an energy form whose 'mental patters have been converted to pure light!'), and he did.

In the last scan, the same one I provided earlier, Lightmaster can't control his movement, and Cable, with a smile, telekinetically directs him into the machine.

Then I provided context to attempt to explain that it was Cable directing him into the machine, because I was worried that it was otherwise unclear what was going on. I also thought that Cable turning the world pink was lolz. Judges, I am sorry if this was not clear, or if it seemed that I was implying anything more than Cable's ability to move Lightmaster's energy form against his will.

Abhilegend has taken my statement to indicate that Cable controlled Lightmaster's ability to transmit the virus into photons, and send it around the world, and then called me a liar.

I don't care if Cable did that, or could do that, because it doesn't help my case. The only thing I need to prove is that Cable can control Lightmaster's body with telekinesis, and that Lightmaster takes an energy form when he travels as photons at lightspeed. If I can prove that - and I did - then I can prove that Cable can affect Krypton Man with telekinesis because Krypton Man is also an energy form.

Incidentally, I'm happy that Abhi has both conceded that Lightmaster is an energy form rather unequivocally



Because it makes my end of the debate a lot easier smile

Ok, now let's get back to Lightmaster and telepathy.

Originally posted by abhilegend
And that's where Cable's telepathy betrays him. You know, people whose thoughts are pure light can't be detected by Cable's telepathy.

http://i.imgur.com/un9UKe6.jpg

Does anybody remember when Storm fans would say that she was resistant or immune to telepathy because she had lightning in her brain?

That's what you sound like right now.

Nowhere in the scan does it say that Cable can't detect his thoughts. And Abhi, I KNOW you've read the whole right (see: referring to it, calling me a liar), so I also know that you are aware that Cable tricked Lightmaster into attacking him so he could redirect Lightmaster into turning the world pink. We both know that Cable was aware of Lightmaster the entire time, and knew all along that he was a member of the One World Church.

Judges, you should also know this, because Abhi and I have both posted the scans to prove it. Here it is again:

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img12/9646/lansky5.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img528/2407/lansky6.jpg

So, there is no indication that Cable could not enter his mind and, in fact, every indication that Cable knew all along Lightmaster's every move - note how he can track him psionically, knowing even that Lightmaster is going to arrive slightly earlier than predicted:

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img72/8145/lansky4.jpg

On an aside, it's hilarious that I get called a liar after Abhi deliberately provides one scan in order to misrepresent the exact same fight. Battlezones bring out an ugliness I guess.

Existere
Alright, other stuff that Abhi said about telepathy:



FFS. Krypton Man doesn't have electronic senses, because he doesn't have electronics. He doesn't even have programming, he's just a being with energy that bonded with that energy of the sun after his programming and circuitry was destroyed:



So, no electronic senses. He's an energy being with telepathy, and perhaps weird, esoteric energy sense (who knows, that's your case to make, I don't know that he's ever displayed anything beyond sight and hearing), but he definitely has telepathy, and he definitely has a mind, and Cable can definitely fool that mind.

Hilariously, when he later DOES get electronic senses and bonds with the Fortress and has experience using T-Vo, Superman then casually fools him with a T-Vo illusion... so your whole argument is a crock anyways.

While I'm on the topic: that scan above is NOT proof that Krypton Man can create a body in instants. Abhi, do you think the judges and I are illiterate?

"Understand, Kal-El, that your sun's intense heat did melt my shell and circuitry.

Yet the essence of my energies continued to exist. After a time my proficiency in controlling my nebulous energies increased-- and my fusion with the sun's core resulted in a unique rebirth"

You keep using that scan as if it will help you, when all it has done is proven:

a) Krypton Man is unique when compared to the other Eradicators, missing components (circuitry, programming), possessing others (suns energy)
b) Krypton Man took time to put his body together

Tell me Abhi, do you know how long that process took? At best the scan might be proof that when Cable shatters Krypton Man and sends his essence/atoms/whatever flying across the battlefield, he may eventually put himself back together... but we have no proof that it would be in instants, which means a forum win for Cable.

Although, knowing that the Fortress robots had to reassemble Eradicator after Krypton Man's energy body was dispersed is probably proof enough that you are, once again, full of it.



a) Krypton Man has no circuitry or programming; not a machine
b) Cassandra Nova and Shadow King (lacking real bodies), Apocalypse (bonded with technology) and the whole Authority team (using radio telepathy) all lead me to believe that you don't need a human brain to have a mind capable of telepathy, telepathic combat or getting f*cking psiblasted.
c) Proof of anything that you're saying?
d) Krypton Man HAS telepathy. Stop telling me his mind can't be detected or he's immune to telepathic attack, he has actual telepathy

You just posted an image of Superman using super-hypnosis on Eradicator. Once again:

a) Not Krypton Man
b) A decade after Krypton Man
c) Further proof that Eradicator is not > Superman with T-Vo (but we'll get to that in a moment)

Onus of proof is on you, my friend, to show that Krypton Man ever used T-Vo. No, a part of the Eradicator essence that lived in Fortress computers for a decade and then attacked Superman via fortress machinery is not Krypton Man.

Superman, Krypton Man, other Eradicator(s) and the use of ABC logic

Originally posted by abhilegend
Continued......

So essentially, Superman's feat does't apply to............ Superman? What a load of BS. If a telepath beats Xavier and Cable beats that telepath, Cable is automatically better than Xavier. Its just that simple.

Mhm.

Did you know that Spider-Man beat Firelord once? And Vulture has definitely taken it to Spider-Man at least once.

I guess I'll draft Vulture for my next mid-herald character.

Ooh, here's another one:

Dominus is supposed to be a multiversal mind right? But that multiversal mind lost to Superman with T-Vo, and I know Superman is a total amateur because Eradicator, a mid-herald character made Superman look bad... so I think any mid herald could outwill Dominus.

And God's will. That too.

Seriously though: ABC logic is all about spinning high feats against low feats to try and make one character look far superior without any other proof to support that conclusion. Superman beat Dominus and God's will with T-Vo (high feat), then seriously struggled against Eradicator with T-Vo (low feat) so therefore Eradicator could chump Spectre.

Right!?

Meanwhile, let's toss out that Eradicator got chumped by Superman's T-Vo illusion, let's forget that he has zero other T-Vo feats to reference, and that his only other telepathic feats at all include connecting telepathically with Superman and mindwiping some no-name feeb civilian.

(Although, at least those last two feats belong to the Eradicator that you drafted, and not an Eradicator from the future with a different body, name and powerset).


You heard it here first, folks. Spectre is fodder for amateur telepaths.

But that's just it, you don't get to use Dominus' feats, just like I don't get X-Man's.

Cable ionized a planet telepathically. The weight of Cable's mind made Emma believe her shields were barely holding up, despite the fact that she had cerebra and Cable was directing zero attention towards the X-Men... and when Cable wanted to, he pierced those shields with ease. He filtered through the thoughts of the entire world, and manipulated their emotions and pain and responded to thoughts of murder, impending traffic accidents and would-be terrorist attacks.

Those are my feats of power. Now I can point to Cable, with almost no telepathic power, using that power to put down Cannonball, Colossus and others, because it indicates precision and versatility. I can point to him teaching the finer points of psi combat to a young Nate Grey, and standing up against Jean, Xavier and others, because we get a context for combat ability.

Really, that other stuff is just icing on the cake though. I can ultimately just say: Cable's huge, Emma Frost-breaking telepathic mind brings all its psi-weight to bear on Krypton Man's noggin.

We have no feat of Krypton Man channelling Dominus' multiversal information, because he didn't do it. Clark did, and Krypton Man, no matter how much you would like Abhi, doesn't get Clark's feats.

So Krypton Man's mind gets flattened.

Existere
The Super-Clone

I haven't addressed the presence of Superman's clone in my replied thus far because there is still zero evidence that he would exist. More to the point though, if Abhi is trying to make Eradicator split his 'programming' to make two Eradicator-occupied bodies on the field, it's duplication.





It's not an independently acting construct, it's creating a second body for Eradicator and then doubling the Eradicator presence on the field, even if the two bodies have different power sets. We can get a host ruling on it if Abhi would like.

However, again, I still don't believe the plan is remotely feasible and so, in the absence of a host ruling, I'm going to explain why that is:

I wrote that Abhi was missing two components that were present to repeat Eradicator's previous feat of creating a Kryptonian clone:

a) A host to occupy the body
b) the 30 years of stored energy inside Clark's body

Further, should a body be created, it would be missing two essential parts of Superman:

c) A body capable of absorbing sunlight
d) Superman's memories

Abhi avoided effectively replying to any of these points:

a)



Scans of multiple Eradicators existing at the same point in time: one bonded with David Connor, the other with the Fortress. No scan of an Eradicator creating a second body for itself and living as the host in both. Note that the Kem-L persona lived through fortress technology, did not create a 'whole new body for himself' (he attacked Clark mentally from the tech and was destroyed when the figure was destroyed), and falls under the 'the other with the Fortress' category of Eradicator identities.

No scan showing that Eradicator is even capable of willfully splitting his identity into two bodies. This only happened in the comics because: Superman forcefully dispersed Eradicator, some of the energy would go on to be dormant until bonding with David Connor (not existing on its own), some would go on to bond with Fortress tech (after being reassembled by Fortress tech).

b)

Maybe he has the energy required to do this because Krypton Man can channel the sun's energy - we don't know, because he's never done this before (see: once again, not Krypton Man's feat).

However, we do know that it doesn't matter because of c)

c)

Maybe, but the scan shows he needed a matrix within the fortress to make that change, he couldn't do it himself.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16777282/createsclone.JPG.html

More indication that this isn't even possible.


Whoa, not the kryptonians he created. The scan refers to the 'Eradicator matrix' as abducted by Brainiac, and is related only in name to the Eradicator that existed as Krypton Man.

THIS is specifically why I referenced the wikipedia article, because the amount with which Abhi is trying to pull the wool over judges' eyes is ridiculous. At least the wiki article lays out the Eradicator history plain for everybody to see. I have provided scans for all my points regarding the Eradicator identity crisis, but wikipedia serves as a separate document that provides a timeline for all this stuff.

Anyways, the scan has nothing to do with Krypton Man, could employ shitloads of outside tech that Eradicator doesn't have here, and, perhaps most importantly, gives no timeline. We have no idea if Eradicator can create a kryptonian body in 5 minutes, which is all he has here for prep.

d) Uh... I have no idea what you're referring to, cause it doesn't say any of that in the scan.

Even if it could be backed up by other evidence, that would only store Superman's memories until 1989. So please stop using scans from the last two and a half decades.

Finally, I'll stress again, Krypton Man's circuitry and programming was destroyed in the sun. Provide proof that Krypton Man hold's all of Superman's memories or we'll assume that anything he did remember was lost when he had his 'unique rebirth'.

Telekinesis and the Eradicator

To reiterate:

Previous to his telekinesis being God-like, Cable proved he could manipulate energy forms:

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img444/4773/redirectblast.jpg*

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img528/2407/lansky6.jpg

Then his telekinesis became mega powerful

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img201/218/containmissiles2.jpg

http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/275/cablesmash2.jpg

*For this feat, Sinister had temporarily removed his TO virus, which is the same reason he became so powerful in his God-like persona. He didn't show anything close to the same level of power, but did move this energy beam, which is totally transferrable.

(for what it's worth, it might have been totally inherent in his atomic-restructuring feats that he could manipulate energy, but I'm glad to have even pre-messiah Cable scans back up the feat).

The plan still stands: Cable wills Eradicator's body sundered, and it becomes sundered. Much like how Superman beat Krypton Man in the first place, by scattering his energy to the wind.

Abhi's defence:

Krypton Man stood up to punches from Superman

Fine, I'll just continuously apply the same energy that it took to levitate Providence or break Surfer's board, and beat the hell out of Krypton Man. I have telekinesis and can apply this attack at all angles, from any distance, however I want, for as long as I want.

ALSO: Krypton Man's physical durability against Superman has nothing to do with Krypton Man's durability while intangible, as he is in this match. We know that Krypton Man refers to his own body and all its variations as malleable and so durability from a solid Krypton Man means nothing to an intangible one.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Existere
We're getting into the real quote war part of the debate. I'm gonna try and keep arguments grouped thematically so our thoughts are easier to follow, sorry judges if I'm jumping around a bit. Alright by me.

Your tendency to repeat yourself is amusing. But like I said you don't make a wrong fact right by repeating yourself "ad nauseaum". Krypton Man's essence used T-vo. Case dismissed.

That's the version being used here.
A different version, being controlled by the mind of David Conner. Non-applicable in every term.

Alright, bring it on.

HE COULDN'T DETECT LIGHTMASTER AT ALL. We know Cable had planetary TP and knew of everything at all time. He was constantly in contact with every thought in the world, yet he couldn't detect him at all. That's proof enough in its own that he couldn't lock on his thoughts to identify him.

Haha, "noooo, this be off topic. I can't counter this so its off topic." Great move.



Either a liar or you purposely hid context from us. What is it?





That part never happened. He never manipulated photons and neither did he transmit it on his own. So yeah, you lied about the context.



His thoughts have been converted into pure light. His suit is physical. As stated here.

http://i.imgur.com/1p6T1dr.jpg

Cable can easily control his suit. Nobody said it otherwise.

Well, he never did move Lightmaster's energy form without either covering him with debris or manipulating his suit.


And you never mentioned a machine *at all*.

That's what you said. Don't backtrack now.

manipulating the photons as he chooses (for context, he uses Lightmaster to convert a virus into photons and transmit it around the world, to turn everybody pink... it's a lil weird)

Tell us more where you mentioned a machine.

That's some huge leap in logic. All Cable did was redirect lasers or redirect Lightmaster using his suit. He never ripped apart an energy being or so much as manipulated it as Smurph is trying to act here. And he can't control Krypton Man's energy form, because he is a superior energy manipulator.

Heh, not really.



Sure thing bro.



I don't.

Haha, come on.

Heh, not because of his telepathic powers. And he knew it because Irene had warned him about it.

Haha, seriously? He saw Lightmaster and said he was returning sooner than he expected. That's it. Nowhere did he psionically tracked Lightmaster.

laughing out loud

Stubborn to the very end, eh? We'll see about that.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Existere
Alright, other stuff that Abhi said about telepathy: Alright.



WTF? Is this for real?

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16777801/kryptonmanvssuperman_20.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16777802/kryptonmanvssuperman_21.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16777804/kryptonmanvssuperman_22.jpg.html

I don't even know what to call you this time. Either you're really desperate or you're just talking out of your ass.

All Eradicator had was programming, that's why he was unstable in that magic crystal. You're just spouting random nonsense now.

Again, talking out of your ass.

http://i.imgur.com/F2RvBkB.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/2bRTkVU.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/GMgbreM.jpg

He could feel the electronic disturbance and the fact that the robots in FOS had their programming changed..........from space. But since smurph said it, Eradicator doesn't has electronic senses. Bwahahaha.

David Conner had no experience using T-vo and that's not the version being used here. But keep rambling.

Eh, what the hell?

Once again using "lack of programming"?

facepalm

Seriously?

First put a scan where Cable breaks any energy being and then we will talk. Untill then, I have no reasons to even think about that scenario.

You know what? I don't think I've ever seen someone so full of himself. Superman destroyed Eradicator's programming inside a magic crystal which was making his programming unstable. Learn to read.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16777801/kryptonmanvssuperman_20.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16777802/kryptonmanvssuperman_21.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16777804/kryptonmanvssuperman_22.jpg.html



A flat out lie which smurph keeps repeating.
Neither of them are machines. Next.
Everything I said is backed by scans. Unlike you.
His thoughts are still pure light and cable can't lock on them.

A different version of Eradicator with a different mind altogether. Try next time.

It could've been a century after that and it wouldn't change a single thing. But I like how you keep trying to use David Conner as Kem-L version of Eradicator.

The essence only lived through Fortress. It didn't use machinery to attack Superman by T-vo.

A hilarious strawman. Spider-man never beat down Firelord saying he was an amateur and Firelord saying he can't hold Spider-man back. But now I KNOW you're desperate.

Hahaha, way to dismiss feats. "I don't like it so it doesn't counts." What is this? CBR?

If you really think so, you're more ignorant than I thought.

A less powerful Eradicator brainwashes Matrix.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16774980/brainwashedmatrix.jpg.html

Mindwipes Superman of its existence.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16777098/constructvssuperman_5.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16777105/constructvssuperman_6.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16777146/constructvssuperman_7.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16777177/constructvssuperman_8.jpg.html

Casually kicks Maxima out of Superman's mind.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16780817/overpowersmaxima_1.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16780820/overpowersmaxima_2.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16780825/overpowersmaxima_3.jpg.html


And it was referenced that even Darkseid had failed to control Superman while Eradicator controlled him for weeks.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16777238/constructvssuperman_29.jpg.html

So, no. Eradicator isn't without its TP feats.

Repeat a thousand times more. Maybe someday you'll realize its for no use.


Wow, whining much?

I totally do.

Nothing compared to Dominus though.

abhilegend
Continued....

Nothing compared to Dominus though.



Nothing compared to overpowering God's will.

And Eradicator breaks that mind up Cable's ass. Its just that simple.

Eradicator beat Clark, that means he is a superior astral combatant than him. Its an undeniable fact.

You can't even touch his mind TBH.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Existere
The Super-Clone

I haven't addressed the presence of Superman's clone in my replied thus far because there is still zero evidence that he would exist. More to the point though, if Abhi is trying to make Eradicator split his 'programming' to make two Eradicator-occupied bodies on the field, it's duplication. No, its not. He is just creating a construct with different powers and controlling it.





I've broken no rules. At all.

And you were wrong then and een now.



I did create a host body.

That was because Eradicator was depowered. He isn't depowered here.

Eradicator at full power can easily create kryptonians who can absorb sunlight as shown in my scans.

Eradicator has all of Superman's memories due to mindlinking it to the Cleric.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16777851/linksminds.jpg.html

That's a three issue long mindlink. if you want, I could post the whole sequence.



roll eyes (sarcastic)

WTF? If he was just fighting Superman mentally, how was Lois able to see him?

http://i.imgur.com/ghHLJ2E.jpg



So you don't actually read these?

http://i.imgur.com/NjOwGtb.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/B2433A7.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/TJbeFQb.jpg

A part of Eradicator after David Conner threw away the programming, explicitly created another body in instants.

WTF?

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16775003/channelsun_1.jpg.html

How many times do I have to tell you, that's because he was amnesiac and didn't know how to create a body.

Haha.


Eradicator matrix is the core programming of any eradicator version. But if you like, he was the one who modified Kryptonians to have powers under the yellow sun and die if leaving Krypton.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16783241/killskryptonians_1.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16783242/killskryptonians_2.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16783244/killskryptonians_3.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16783245/killskryptonians_4.jpg.html

Did the wiki also say Krypton Man didn't have any programming too?

haermm

He created a kryptonian body in less time than it takes a lady to take some step.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16777278/createsclone_1.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16777280/createsclone_2.jpg.html

While he was amnesiac, had resistance from Superman's body and powerless. It would be child's play to create a kryptonian body at full power for himself.

d) Uh... I have no idea what you're referring to, cause it doesn't say any of that in the scan. Its a three issue long sequence.

Fine. This happened in 1988.

http://s1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/?action=view&current=NanosecondInteraction1.jpg
http://s1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/?action=view&current=NanosecondInteraction2.jpg

So, he is still faster than nanosecond reaction time.

Haha, no. Eradicator had his full programming and all his memories as a kryptonian artifact. How do you think he retained the memory of krypton?
Redirect lasers. Not manipulating or splitting them.

Moving an energy beam and doing anything to Eradicator are TWO different scenarios. Eradicator has total control over his energy form and is A FAR better energy manipulator than cable.


You're really good at lying. Superman destroyed Eradicator's programming in a magic crystal.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16777801/kryptonmanvssuperman_20.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16777802/kryptonmanvssuperman_21.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16777804/kryptonmanvssuperman_22.jpg.html

While being weakened by sun's ELECTROMAGNETIC field.

And I can tank it as long as I want, since you can't directly affect my energy form and can only redirect it as he did to that laser and Lightmaster.

abhilegend
Continued.....

Even in intangible state he stood up to Sun's electromagnetic field.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16777810/kryptonmanvssuperman_25.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16777811/kryptonmanvssuperman_26.jpg.html

FYI, a small portion of sun's EM field can easily destroy earth. That's FAR BEYOND Cable's power. And Eradicator had no problem taking it despite weakened by it. Case dismissed.


And for the last time, where did Cable rip apart an energy being? Because all you've shown is Cable redirecting a laser and redirecting Lightmaster.

Existere
Hey Abhi and judges,

This is probably my last post, I'm just about done with everything I have to say. If Abhi brings new stuff to light in his response, I might reply, but I'm expecting more of the same and I feel confident letting this go to a judge ruling soon.

Sundering the Krypton Man

Originally posted by abhilegend


And for the last time, where did Cable rip apart an energy being? Because all you've shown is Cable redirecting a laser and redirecting Lightmaster.

I'm so glad you asked. smile

http://i.imgur.com/mVnvoXC.jpg

"Cable allowed the facade virus to intermingle with Lightmaster's incorporeal form and, in layman's terms, telekinetically blew the sumbeech up! A second sun blanketed the planet..."

... so, that pretty much settles this debate, right?

Cable blows Krypton Man up in the same manner, much like Superman's magical crystal did to kill Krypton Man in the first place.

Abhi's defense:

Originally posted by abhilegend
Continued.....

Even in intangible state he stood up to Sun's electromagnetic field.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16777810/kryptonmanvssuperman_25.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16777811/kryptonmanvssuperman_26.jpg.html


He's provided this as proof that Eradicator's intangible form has a defence feat, but the only time we see Eradicator intangible, it's in an effort to avoid Superman's fist, and it's not a defence feat- Superman just says that Mercury's magnetic field (note: Mercury, not the Sun, as Abhi would have us believe) is f*cking up Eradicator's powers. Nothing to bolster the belief that Eradicator would be any harder to tear apart than Lightmaster.

It is interesting though... I mean, if the magnetic field of Mercury can mess with Eradicator's powers, and he's up against Cable's psi-powers, which passively were strong enough to ionize Earth's atmosphere, imagine what Cable could do to mess with Krypton Man's powers if he actively intended to... mmm

Lastly, Abhi defends Krypton Man, saying that he's a better/more proven energy manipulator than Cable, but let's take a closer look:

Originally posted by abhilegend


Cable can atomize and restructure matter on a city-wide scale as shown against Surfer..................but Eradicator is a planetary level transmuter. Even the less powerful Eradicator construct could give and take away powers by transmuting human bodies.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16783249/jimmyelastic.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16777105/constructvssuperman_6.jpg.html

Again.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16777217/constructvssuperman_22.jpg.html

And about to tear the whole planet apart.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16783261/ripearthapart.jpg.html

This more powerful version can transmute the whole planet.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16775003/channelsun_1.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16775023/channelsun_2.jpg.html

On a minute level, create skyscrapers.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16780891/transmutation_1.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16780894/transmutation_2.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16780896/transmutation_3.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16780900/transmutation_4.jpg.html

Randomly transmuting human bodies into stone.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16780910/transmutation_6.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16780906/transmutation_5.jpg.html

And most impressively creating a kryptonian body from stone.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16777278/createsclone_1.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16777280/createsclone_2.jpg.html


w00t

That's all perfectly neato happy , but mostly irrelevant.

Cable used TK to amp himself to be strong enough to crack Surfer's board in two. You've dismissed this saying that Morg, Terrax and Firelord have all done the same thing, but, well... Terrax is the lamest of the three, and he's destroyed a planet with an axe strike. So I'm cool with the comparison.

See, it doesn't matter if Krypton Man can extend control over the whole planet. Cable can too - remember his ionizing the planet's atmosphere? - but it's not the point.

What Cable can do is be really strong with his telekinesis, apply that strength to Krypton Man's energy form, and sunder it. Even if Krypton Man can ultimately affect more energy, it doesn't give him a stronger pull.

What I mean:

Giganta can grab more with her hands than Superman, because her hands are huge. Does that make her stronger?

Xavier has reached 8 billion minds with his telepathy when he channelled the emotions of the Skrull homeworld. Cassandra Nova has no feats suggesting she could replicate the same thing, but she has casually stomped Chuck in a one-on-one telepathic fight.

I don't care if Krypton Man can affect the whole sun, he has no feats to suggest he can outpower Cable.

This is backed up by Krypton Man's appearances in comics too:

Being a proven energy manipulator with powers from the sun didn't stop Superman from dispersing him with a magic crystal, it didn't stop Mercury's magnetic field from tampering with his powers, it didn't allow him to put himself back together after he was ripped apart- he needed the Fortress robots to do that for him.

Apparently as soon as Krypton Man starts to rip up, his programming is destroyed (see: Eradicator's programming getting destroyed in the heat of the sun; Krypton Man's programming getting destroyed when the magic crystal spewed his energy everywhere) and he can't easily reconstitute himself. In the sun, he needed to bond with solar energies and, over time, put himself back together. As an energy ghost, he needed to access Superman's stored solar energies and put himself back together. In the fortress, he needed the robots to put him back together and bond with fortress tech.

Even here:


What do I do now?

I find myself unable to absorb and utilize this essence fully... but I can utilize its knowledge...

I improvise... somehow using the materials available... the essence and reality of the dead.

I focus... twist.. mold...

And I become... not alive yet... not quite real...

But powerful nonetheless

Further proof that Eradicator needs outside materials to put himself back together, that he needs an unspecified amount of time, that he needs an outside host/essence or, at the very least, outside energies.

So no, Abhi, I don't think that Eradicator's abilities to manipulate energy have anything to do with Eradicator's abilities to heal himself when his opponent destroys him.

Finally, you know who is a far better and more proven energy manipulator than Eradicator?

Silver Surfer.

Didn't stop Cable from smashing his board when he decided he'd had enough.

Other Stuff: Defensive Actions and Healing

If Eradicator gets any attacks in, Cable with happily repel them with shields, continue to make himself telepathically invisible, use illusions to distract, teleport, and - because he's such a goddamn fabulous multitasker - press his attack simultaneously.

Incidentally, that same multitasking strength will allow him to instantly repair shields the moment they are damaged, just as he instantly repaired the world atomically throughout his fight with Surfer.

Finally, if he gets damaged: remember that Cable was durable enough to brush off the blitz from Surfer without showing any damage, and remember that Cable has Deadpool's healing factor - any damage sustained will be repaired immediately.

Conclusion

In my opening post, I emphasized three points that I feel are really important in this battle:

God-like Cable is one of the best multitaskers in comics. He spent 24 hours a day listening to the entire world's thoughts and responding as needed. He defended himself from an attack from the Silver Surfer, repaired all the damage from their battle on an atomic level, continued to levitate Providence, and continued to attempt to reach Surfer telepathically.

This multitasking ability will allow him to press all of his offensive and defensive actions against Krypton Man simultaneously. My opponent has no proof that he can defend himself on a telepathic or telekinetic front, much less simultaneously.

God-like Cable has global telepathy, and a huge amount of telepathic weight to bring crushing on Eradicator's domepiece. These telepathic wavelengths also ionized Earth's atmosphere and could mess up Krypton Man's powers, just like Mercury's magnetic field.

God-like Cable has never been seen in combat fully rested, with the amount of energy and power he will have here.

Existere
Other last minute thoughts to tack on:

- Cable can begin his attack immediately, he has no need to break through a shield.

- The Super-Clone still lacks any basis in comic books to believe that Eradicator can split his programming and control two bodies at once. The closest comic book comparison is this, and involves, once again, creating a separate identity, not simply controlling a construct, and therefore is duplication as per Battlezone rules.

- The reason that the distinction between duplication and controlling a construct is important is because the first simply doubles an opponent's presence on a battlefield, and the second divides that presence across two bodies. If there is only one mind, and not 'split programming', then Cable will resume his assault on that one mind, which will be even less capable of defending itself when it is split between two bodies. At any rate, Eradicator lacks the feats to show that he can control two bodies with one personality. Every instance Abhi shows (David Connor, Fortress merged Eradicator, Brainiac merged Eradicator, undead Eradicator) demonstrates a second emerging mind/personality, and not simply the creation of a construct.

abhilegend

abhilegend
Continued..........

WTF? He did that rather instantly, used some materials in the phantom zone while he was a powerless wraith. Here he is at the peak of his power and has quite some materials in the supermarket gundam has provided.

You can't destroy Eradicator's programming. That's the only way to disperse his energy form.

He isn't. He needs outside power to stabilize a sun when his most powerful attacks can't do that on its own.

That............doesn't mean anything. The board isn't an energy form. ****, durok has smashed his board, what does that means?

I have successfully countered each one of these points, while Smurph has only dismissed my whole argument without any kind of proof. Cable can't lock on Eradicator's mind, he would get crushed in a TP battle, teleportaion isn't allowed and Eradicator shits on cable in terms of multitasking.

He has never done that to his shields. Rearranging matter=/=rerranging his own TK shields. And Eradicator would smash his shields open with one shot which KTFO Superman and wring his neck.

And got oneshotted by Silver Surfer when he was done playing. Knocked out by bullets to the brain, KOED by lightning etc.

That has nothing on Eradicator's multitasking. He can simultaneously turn sun red, transmute entire earth, beat the shit out of superman and shit just for teh lulz.



...........


Bwahahaha. Oh smurph, you like your own words so much.
Eradicator crushes Cable in TP combat by T=vo.

I object milord. Lets look another way. You know the mysterious power up Superman got in 90's? Yeah, the astral combat technique known as T-vo. Yeah, the same technique which allowed him to to first stalemate Dominus.

http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Willpower/tvo/ManOfSteel089a.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Willpower/tvo/ManOfSteel089b.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Willpower/tvo/ManOfSteel089c.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Willpower/tvo/ManOfSteel089d.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Willpower/tvo/ManOfSteel089e.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Willpower/tvo/ManOfSteel089f.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Willpower/tvo/ManOfSteel089g.jpg

Untill Dominus distracted him. And then completely own him.

http://imgur.com/UWUv2l0
http://imgur.com/FUMM8FU
http://imgur.com/GBatPmo
http://imgur.com/g23epdU
http://imgur.com/TGJPdXO
http://imgur.com/lgd7zio
http://imgur.com/OHVnZn6
http://imgur.com/h1bvs5L
http://imgur.com/9OjPGYV
http://imgur.com/QJUnsRu
http://imgur.com/fFHqeA7
http://imgur.com/2qWvqZ4
http://imgur.com/It6aJ8d
http://imgur.com/0Xa4fAA
http://imgur.com/PqRcgAw
http://imgur.com/R7Zsy1U
http://imgur.com/BExJidu
http://imgur.com/ecTVnix
http://imgur.com/AOdoiVP
http://imgur.com/sIOfoaf
http://imgur.com/VAwjLUw
http://imgur.com/8fcVhsC

And Dominus was a multiversal level telepath. Casually dumping the information of an infinite multiverse in Superman's head.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/15777252/ccf0528201200007.jpg.html

If that wasn't enough, Superman literally overpowered God's will itself.

Superman overpowers God's will of making everyone forget that hal jordan was spectre by T-vo

http://s1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/?action=view&current=JLA207.jpg

http://s1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/?action=view&current=godswillvstvo.jpg
http://s1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/?action=view&current=godswillvstvo1.jpg

Now we've established Superman would push Cable's shit in astral combat using T-vo, right? Well. Superman was totally helpless against a fraction of Krypton Man's persona embedded in Fortress which Lois accidentally took to their apartment.

http://i.imgur.com/8oqKdj9.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/GsPT3DC.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Ws1vKn8.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/FGdiH4O.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ujkIdkz.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/KqOoBqn.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/dHOcOAe.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/CrblxTg.jpg

Which was the leftover consciousness of Eradicator in the fortress after Superman dissipated Krypton Man as stated here.

http://i.imgur.com/9ZqiCGS.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/tAnQt3V.jpg


Not even close TBH.

Pretty speculative TBH. Although he did got exhausted by removing a virus from someone's body at full power. So meh.Originally posted by Existere
Other last minute thoughts to tack on:

- Cable can begin his attack immediately, he has no need to break through a shield.

- The Super-Clone still lacks any basis in comic books to believe that Eradicator can split his programming and control two bodies at once. The closest comic book comparison is this, and involves, once again, creating a separate identity, not simply controlling a construct, and therefore is duplication as per Battlezone rules.

- The reason that the distinction between duplication and controlling a construct is important is because the first simply doubles an opponent's presence on a battlefield, and the second divides that presence across two bodies. If there is only one mind, and not 'split programming', then Cable will resume his assault on that one mind, which will be even less capable of defending itself when it is split between two bodies. At any rate, Eradicator lacks the feats to show that he can control two bodies with one personality. Every instance Abhi shows (David Connor, Fortress merged Eradicator, Brainiac merged Eradicator, undead Eradicator) demonstrates a second emerging mind/personality, and not simply the creation of a construct.
This is just repeating your own argument without any kind of rationale. I have already addressed this multiple times over. No need to do it again.

abhilegend

Existere
Ah, the smell of desperation in the air...

Originally posted by abhilegend


And judges, Smurph has lied several times over in this thread.

He lied about Cable manipulating Lightmaster's energy form.


Man, I am sooooo over being called a liar. I know I said I was done posting, but this is way too out of line to not correct.

Let's see who's lying, shall we?

The Lightmaster Debacle

Abhi is becoming increasingly caustic in his replies because he thinks that if judges realize what Cable does to Lightmaster in these scans, they'll understand that Cable can do the exact same thing to Krypton Man's incorporeal energy form at the beginning of this match.

When this fight was first brought up, all that I focused on was how Cable redirects Lightmaster's flying body into a septic tank holding a virus, because I felt what was really important was witnessing how Cable's telekinesis could affect an energy form.

Abhi actually accused me of lying (facepalm), thinking I meant to say that Cable had Lightmaster's photons bond with the virus, and then sent the virus across the world.

I don't know if that was Abhi's moment of brilliance or if he just touched upon some truth in his rage-blithering, but if we re-read the scans, we can see that that is exactly what Cable does.

Let's take a look:

http://i.imgur.com/svRVSad.jpg

^ This is the recap at the beginning of the issue. Important things:

It mentions the Deliverance Device, which will become really important
It refers to the Facade Virus, which is the virus in question that Cable eventually delivers via Lightmaster's energy form around the world
It indicates how Cable became God Cable - Abhi would have us believe that God Cable exhausted his energies extracting the Facade Virus from someone's body, but that was before he became God Cable. Cable didn't reach God-Like status until he bonded with Deadpool's healing factor, which would go on to fight the TO Virus in his body and let him become Cyber Jesus Uninhibited. Cable only bonded with Deadpool's healing factor in order to fight the Facade Virus in each of their bodies, and they were infected with the virus after Cable removed the virus from the teen's body, the feat abhi references.

For clarity:
Cable finds the virus with teens in Germany, removes it, exhausts himself
Cable tracks down the Deliverance Device and both he and Deadpool are infected by the virus
Cable and Deadpool's bodies bond via bodyslide, Cable gets Pool's healing factor, enter God Like Cable


I'm sure Abhi knows this already... but then again, he would never lie to judges, would he?

Next scan!

http://i.imgur.com/WrZjDgW.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/5tgejb9.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/8FZcDy2.jpg

^ This is Cable's fight with Lightmaster, important things:

They mention the Deliverance Device, and confirm that Cable destroyed it in France. The describe the device: it was meant to take the Facade Virus (a liquid subject) and 'piggyback it' onto optic/internet lines to give people the virus via their TVs and computer monitors
They also mention the problem: it would take too long. There are parts of the world that don't have internet or TVs. 'misguided souls'
The solution: Lightmaster. He can convert the 'face-changing agent' into lightwaves. They NEVER mention a second Deliverance Device that could deliver Lansky across the world, only imply that Lightmaster was meant to bathe those 'misguided souls' with the same virus-light that others would receive through their television sets.

and then...

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img528/2407/lansky6.jpg

smile

Cable does it for them. He drops Lansky into the liquid-holding tank that contains the Facade Virus, allows it to bond with his form and then blows up Lansky across the world, transmitting the virus everywhere.

This is confirmed very explicitly with the recap in the next issue:
http://i.imgur.com/mVnvoXC.jpg

Abhi has tried to tell you this is misleading, but it's a recap by the exact same authors, and all that he has to refute it is a bio written by somebody else. ermm

The recap also confirms that Lightmaster's form was incorporeal, and that Cable used telekinesis to create a 'second sun'.

With these scans, we know that it is a viable tactic to do the same thing to Krypton Man because, per Abhi's write-up, KM is an intangible energy form at the start of the match.

Conclusion (Actually done this time!)

Krypton Man will be prey to Cable from the beginning of the match. Godlike Cable will simply overwhelm his mind and sunder his energy form with TP and TK from the moment the match starts.
There is no Superclone, based on a sheer lack of evidence. If judges believe Abhi anyways, realize that it means Eradicator's mind will be split across two bodies and will be much easier for Cable to overwhelm telepathically. Otherwise, Cable will simply take control of the Superclone for his own purpose.

If his mind is not split across two bodies (which he is incapable of anyways, as per the scans), then Abhi has attempted to duplicate his mind, which is illegal
Krypton Man has never used T-Vo. His energy form has a set of powers completely different from all other Eradicator incarnations. We don't even know if his body is capable of T-Vo, much less still remembers how to use it.


K, judges, it's all yours.

DarkSaint85
I've read all of it. My judgement shall come to pass.

psycho gundam
ALL judges: just pm me your verdicts based on this match. they will be posted by the end of the week max

DarkSaint85
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/square_small/11/117763/3308900-arishem.jpg

Ambient
Wow ZA! Good reading guys.

leonidas
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/square_small/11/117763/3308900-arishem.jpg

laughing out loud

thumb up

psycho gundam
We have 2 judgments in with hopefully 3 more judgments by tonight.

psycho gundam
Originally posted by psycho gundam
We just need one more judgment to make it 5. If either Mindset or Bentley can get one in to me soon we'll have a winner.

Existere
nuts

psycho gundam
Mindset and Bentley both contacted me so WHICHEVER JUDGMENT COMES IN FIRST SHALL BE OFFICIALLY COUNTED.

I'm glad we had such a good judge turnout. An actual surplus for once

Existere
Oh f*ck off. I'm ready to find out I lost (or won!).

leonidas
that kinda attitude won't play well with the judges...... lol

psycho gundam
Originally posted by Existere
Oh f*ck off. I'm ready to find out I lost (or won!).

Well, lets give the man what he wants

psycho gundam
P2



WINNER: ABHILEGEND

psycho gundam
Originally posted by Existere
Oh f*ck off. I'm ready to find out I lost (or won!). It was a 2-2 deadlock so I had to wait lmao

MF DELPH
Now that this match is officially over and the judge votes are in, I'd just like to point out that this rule:

Originally posted by psycho gundam
13. ( Prep) You will receive a 5 minute briefing about your opponent. You cannot gather gear that would not be considered standard gear.

Essentially invalidates most of Abhi's plan, and is a main reason why I said I disregarded it, and why I made this post in the off-topic thread back on the 24th:

Originally posted by MF DELPH
I just read through that thread. If we're going to judge it we're going to need some guidance on the duplicate rule as well as which character Abhi is actually using so that all the judges are operating on the same playing field.

The prep, as stated, was intended to be a 5 minute briefing on the opponent and they could only gather standard gear. Creating a clone of Superman certainly isn't "gathering standard equipment" for Krypton Man, and inhabiting that clone with his programming would be duplication (he's creating a second body to use in battle) and a violation of Rule #5, but even if you didn't consider that a duplication rule break, it's a moot point since the only thing that occurs in prep is a briefing on the opponent per Rule #13 and a clone of Superman is certainly not standard equipment. Not sure how that was not only apparently unclear to Abhi, but somehow overlooked by 3 of the other judges.

And to be clear, this is not shade, an indictment, an insult, or anything resembling any form of hostility, just an observation and, well, fact, per the rules in the OP, that I'm pointing out.

Rao Kal El
^I did not think Abhi could use his clone and for what I read most of us felt the same way.

I though and have no doubt that KM will be capable to create the clone, but not use it, so in my opinion the clone was just a useless waste of energy for KM

But is a really good point about not being standard equipment.

MF DELPH
I understand.

I'm just pointing out that, per rule, nothing Abhi claimed to do in prep was legal and should have been dismissed. The issue isn't the capability of Krypton Man (who likely could have won, if argued legally), the issue is that per rule all that occurred during prep was a briefing, and the participant could only gather 'standard equipment'. By rule, everything Abhi did in his prep post was illegal, so all subsequent actions based on that rule dismissed prep would collapse and be nullified. That should have been addressed early on but wasn't and as such Abhi built his entire attack on a false premise; that being him having a sun-dipped clone under his control, and being able to access all the abilities of Superman and future versions of Eradicator that weren't specific to Krypton Man.

abhilegend
Hurray! I actually won against Smurph?

faint

"Id"
Personally I thought Smurph won this match, but congrats to Abhi. Good luck defending your reign.

quanchi112
Originally posted by "Id"
Personally I thought Smurph won this match thumb up

DarkSaint85
Guess you guys should've stepped up to judge

quanchi112
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Guess you guys should've stepped up to judge I don't judge.

DarkSaint85
A rewording, then, perhaps.

Perhaps you should've given your opinion when it mattered.

quanchi112
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
A rewording, then, perhaps.

Perhaps you should've given your opinion when it mattered. Again, I don't care that much but seeing as how an illegal tactic fooled the majority of the judges I will never compete/participate in a battlezone done in this manner.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by quanchi112
Again, I don't care that much...



OK. Keep that in your back pocket when someone challenges you, its a good excuse.

quanchi112
Originally posted by DarkSaint85




OK. Keep that in your back pocket when someone challenges you, its a good excuse. I am doing a battlezone now. I've done more than anyone on kmc. I just know an injustice when I see one. That being said its over so no point in rehashing.

Rao Kal El
Originally posted by quanchi112
Again, I don't care that much but seeing as how an illegal tactic fooled the majority of the judges I will never compete/participate in a battlezone done in this manner.

Not trying to start and argument but just to clarify, What majority?

Let me re-post what I said about the clone

"Krypton Man will go intangible and can create the clone however the lack of conclusive evidence will prevent him to USE the clone."

On my side the clone was not used, there was simply no clone and if there was one it was just there inert like a dead body that KM wasted energy and time into create. A useless tactic

Delph, Omega and me did not allowed the use of the clone

Please be more accurate on your statements

quanchi112
Originally posted by MF DELPH
I understand.

I'm just pointing out that, per rule, nothing Abhi claimed to do in prep was legal and should have been dismissed. The issue isn't the capability of Krypton Man (who likely could have won, if argued legally), the issue is that per rule all that occurred during prep was a briefing, and the participant could only gather 'standard equipment'. By rule, everything Abhi did in his prep post was illegal, so all subsequent actions based on that rule dismissed prep would collapse and be nullified. That should have been addressed early on but wasn't and as such Abhi built his entire attack on a false premise; that being him having a sun-dipped clone under his control, and being able to access all the abilities of Superman and future versions of Eradicator that weren't specific to Krypton Man. Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Not trying to start and argument but just to clarify, What majority?

Let me re-post what I said about the clone

"Krypton Man will go intangible and can create the clone however the lack of conclusive evidence will prevent him to USE the clone."

On my side the clone was not used, there was simply no clone and if there was one it was just there inert like a dead body that KM wasted energy and time into create. A useless tactic

Delph, Omega and me did not allowed the use of the clone

Please be more accurate on your statements Again, I am just agreeing with Delph. I stand by his assessment. Drop it.

Rao Kal El
Well you are wrong you said "majority" I just showed you once more that you are incorrect.

If I did not allowed the use of the clone weather because it was illegal or not does not change the fact that in the end the clone of a sunamped superman was NOT used.

So be accurate on your statements, please.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Well you are wrong you said "majority" I just showed you once more that you are incorrect.

If I did not allowed the use of the clone weather because it was illegal or not does not change the fact that in the end the clone of a sunamped superman was NOT used.

So be accurate on your statements, please. Again. I agree with Delph and disagree with you.

Rao Kal El
Originally posted by quanchi112
Again. I agree with Delph and disagree with you.

So you think I should have allowed the clone?

Because I did not, so you were wrong on your statement... once again. wink

I will let you have the last word as I don't want to spam the thread with the usual arguments that happen with you. smile

quanchi112
Originally posted by Rao Kal El
So you think I should have allowed the clone?

Because I did not, so you were wrong on your statement... once again. wink

I will let you have the last word as I don't want to spam the thread with the usual arguments that happen with you. smile Again, the tactics undermined the whole process IMO and his. Match is over. I've said my piece.

DarkSaint85
Yeah, just let it go, guys. Over and done with.

leonidas
lol if everyone had him on ignore it would be a better place at the kmc.

Omega Vision
I will say this: if I had been the sole judge of the BZ I probably would have disqualified Abhi on the basis of having a glaringly illegal strategy, which is a shame because Krypton Man on his own would probably be a match for God Cable.

Smurph was the better debater and the better strategist, IMO, but I can see how the other judges might have ruled in favor of Abhi.

Congratulations, Abhi.

MF DELPH
Originally posted by Rao Kal El
So you think I should have allowed the clone?

Because I did not, so you were wrong on your statement... once again. wink

I will let you have the last word as I don't want to spam the thread with the usual arguments that happen with you. smile

Just to clarify:

The issue isn't only the clone. Abhi's attacks in this exchange, which were primarily contingent on what occurred during his prep, were all void because his prep was illegal. The foundation of his argument was having a sundipped Superman clone attack, then utilizing T-Vo, etc., which were all invalid because Abhi was limited to a specific version of Eradicator, Krypton Man. He conflated all versions and abilities of Eradicator into the one specific iteration of the character he actually had available to him, and his primary means of attack was the sundipped clone and feats belonging to different versions of his character not on the field. By rule all of that, the scans/feats he used for Superman and different versions of Eradicator that weren't from the specific Krypton Man version, were off limits/illegal, and shouldn't have been considered in the decision of the match. However, that made up the majority of Abhi's argument, meaning that most of his argument was nullified by default. That should have been addressed at the point where the opening posts were submitted before this match was posted, but it wasn't and was allowed to carry on into the match and left up to the judges.

The issues isn't Abhi's ability to debate, and like I said before, this is not an indictment or an insult of him or the other judges, or downplaying the capabilities of Krypton Man. The issue is, given the rules of this specific match, most of the actual details of the argument (prep, scans, etc) were illegal (broke prep rule and not pertaining to the specific character in the match) and shouldn't have been considered in the outcome, or even allowed to transpire out the gate.

Rao Kal El
And at least on my part most of those scans pertaining to the use of the superclone were dismissed and unused.

Nothing abhi show related to the superclone was used at least not in my judgement. Like it was said before Krypton Man by himself is enogh to give God cable a battle.

Even with the use of T-VO for Krypton Man I gave Cable the advantage on TP

What it will be good is to define exactly when something is considered duplication and when something is not, splitting a program in percentages is not duplication. None of the parts work at a 100%

The prep time Abhi used was pretty much useless in his case with me, Existere/smurph strategy was better but like it was mentioned before KM alone is a match for GC and in the end the way the debate came down it gave me the impression that even with the mistakes, KM was a little bit more likely to have a favorable outcome.

quanchi112
Originally posted by MF DELPH
Just to clarify:

The issue isn't only the clone. Abhi's attacks in this exchange, which were primarily contingent on what occurred during his prep, were all void because his prep was illegal. The foundation of his argument was having a sundipped Superman clone attack, then utilizing T-Vo, etc., which were all invalid because Abhi was limited to a specific version of Eradicator, Krypton Man. He conflated all versions and abilities of Eradicator into the one specific iteration of the character he actually had available to him, and his primary means of attack was the sundipped clone and feats belonging to different versions of his character not on the field. By rule all of that, the scans/feats he used for Superman and different versions of Eradicator that weren't from the specific Krypton Man version, were off limits/illegal, and shouldn't have been considered in the decision of the match. However, that made up the majority of Abhi's argument, meaning that most of his argument was nullified by default. That should have been addressed at the point where the opening posts were submitted before this match was posted, but it wasn't and was allowed to carry on into the match and left up to the judges.

The issues isn't Abhi's ability to debate, and like I said before, this is not an indictment or an insult of him or the other judges, or downplaying the capabilities of Krypton Man. The issue is, given the rules of this specific match, most of the actual details of the argument (prep, scans, etc) were illegal (broke prep rule and not pertaining to the specific character in the match) and shouldn't have been considered in the outcome, or even allowed to transpire out the gate. thumb up

Delta1938
Originally posted by MF DELPH
Just to clarify:

The issue isn't only the clone. Abhi's attacks in this exchange, which were primarily contingent on what occurred during his prep, were all void because his prep was illegal. The foundation of his argument was having a sundipped Superman clone attack, then utilizing T-Vo, etc., which were all invalid because Abhi was limited to a specific version of Eradicator, Krypton Man. He conflated all versions and abilities of Eradicator into the one specific iteration of the character he actually had available to him, and his primary means of attack was the sundipped clone and feats belonging to different versions of his character not on the field. By rule all of that, the scans/feats he used for Superman and different versions of Eradicator that weren't from the specific Krypton Man version, were off limits/illegal, and shouldn't have been considered in the decision of the match. However, that made up the majority of Abhi's argument, meaning that most of his argument was nullified by default. That should have been addressed at the point where the opening posts were submitted before this match was posted, but it wasn't and was allowed to carry on into the match and left up to the judges.

The issues isn't Abhi's ability to debate, and like I said before, this is not an indictment or an insult of him or the other judges, or downplaying the capabilities of Krypton Man. The issue is, given the rules of this specific match, most of the actual details of the argument (prep, scans, etc) were illegal (broke prep rule and not pertaining to the specific character in the match) and shouldn't have been considered in the outcome, or even allowed to transpire out the gate.

Far as I can tell, the examples of clone making and T-Vo would fall under Krypton Man. Eradicator creating a cloned body of Superman to become Last Son Of Krypton during REIGN OF THE SUPERMEN was the regathering of Krypton Man incarnation's programming, and best I can tell, so was Eradicator posing as Kem-L and beating Superman in Torquasm-Vo. Eradicator using T-Vo there would be a bit of a retcon that Eradicator had it. It seems like Abhi's argument would be similar to using feats and showings from prior, weaker versions of Cable, albeit in reverse, since both Superman cloning and Kem-L impersonating were leftovers of Krypton Man.

Whether the Superman clone itself was a violation of the "No Duplication" rules is another thing.

MF DELPH
Krypton Man is a specific iteration of Eradicator from that specific arc (Superman Vol. 2 to Action Comics 667). Only feats and evidence from that specific range would be valid for this specific version of the character because this specific iteration had unique properties. Like HP Doomsday for Doomsday or Supernova for Booster Gold.

Also, whether the clone was a violation of duplication or not (though it certainly was), it was certainly a violation of the prep rule, so it would still have been invalid either way.

*edit

I'm done with this, btw. What's done is done. I was just pointing out an issue in this thread.

"Id"
Phuck dat chit
Smurph got robed ala Marquez vs Pacquiao III
Smurph should demand a rematch.

Newjak
Originally posted by leonidas
lol if everyone had him on ignore it would be a better place at the kmc. I do it has made my life much better on here smile

leonidas
thumb up

i'm curious--what is the battlefield going to be in this low herald match that will take place eventually? smurph, any thoughts?

abhilegend
Originally posted by MF DELPH
Krypton Man is a specific iteration of Eradicator from that specific arc (Superman Vol. 2 to Action Comics 667). Only feats and evidence from that specific range would be valid for this specific version of the character because this specific iteration had unique properties. Like HP Doomsday for Doomsday or Supernova for Booster Gold.

Also, whether the clone was a violation of duplication or not (though it certainly was), it was certainly a violation of the prep rule, so it would still have been invalid either way.

*edit

I'm done with this, btw. What's done is done. I was just pointing out an issue in this thread.
Then perhaps you should read carefully my argument. A portion of Krypton Man used T-vo and I don't give a phuck about how much time passed in between, its still usable for Krypton Man. You don't like it, I don't care. But passing your own objections like they are ABSOLUTE TRUTH? No thanks.

Originally posted by "Id"
Personally I thought Smurph won this match, but congrats to Abhi. Good luck defending your reign.
Thanks for the underhanded compliment.

Originally posted by "Id"
Phuck dat chit
Smurph got robed ala Marquez vs Pacquiao III
Smurph should demand a rematch.
Says the guy who brought up True Legion in a meta level tourney.

erm

abhilegend
And LMAO @ quanchi. What a bitter, bitter man, following me everywhere like a little dog and trying to catch my attention.

laughing out loud

"Id"
Originally posted by abhilegend


Says the guy who brought up True Legion in a meta level tourney.

erm

Rogue is a powerhouse. Hell she recently absorbed the powers of every superhero on Earth. Who could miss the opportunity to tap into Legion if they had the proper plan, and legal rights to do so.

But yes, Smurph did agree on a match where the legality of your prep should have been questioned, or at least challenge the rule for clarification over the use of prep time.

But since he is not crying about it, I wont either.

abhilegend
So..........don't cry over it? I did what I thought was legal, just as you did. I brought a herald in a herald level tourney and you brought a damn abstract in a meta level tourney. Both were deemed legal by several judges and both were questioned a lot by other people.

So in short, keep in mind about stones and glass houses.

"Id"
Phuck dat chit
Smurph got robed ala Marquez vs Pacquiao III
Smurph should demand a rematch.

MF DELPH
Originally posted by abhilegend
Then perhaps you should read carefully my argument. A portion of Krypton Man used T-vo and I don't give a phuck about how much time passed in between, its still usable for Krypton Man. You don't like it, I don't care. But passing your own objections like they are ABSOLUTE TRUTH? No thanks.

It is absolute truth, and my skills of reading and comprehension are quite impeccable, as they have to be for my profession. You drafted Krypton Man for this match, not Eradicator. Krypton Man is a specific iteration of Eradicator from a specific arc (Superman Vol. 2 #42 to Action Comics Vol. 1 #667) with unique properties. You conflated Krypton Man with all of Eradicator's subsequent incarnations, primarily Reign of Superman Eradicator and afterwards. If you had drafted Eradicator outright I wouldn't have taken issue, but you didn't, you specifically drafted Krypton Man, so by forum rule, not simply my opinion, you're limited to that specific arc, just like if you had, for example, drafted Supernova, you would not have access to all of Booster Gold's subsequent feats from later arcs as well, you'd be limited to that specific arc in 52 when he was actually Supernova. Now, as I said before, this is not to insult you or an indictment of your character. I'm just pointing out an actual issue with the manner in which this thread transpired. Your flippancy is wasted on me and doesn't change the facts of this matter. I'm not saying you intentionally cheated, I'm saying that there are technical issues and outright rule breaks with the argument you presented.

quanchi112
Originally posted by abhilegend
And LMAO @ quanchi. What a bitter, bitter man, following me everywhere like a little dog and trying to catch my attention.

laughing out loud You cheated and got away with it. Not just IMO either. Multiple posters have chimed in. It's over and don't take it personally. I agreed with another posted initially.

This was stolen from Smurph IMO.

abhilegend
Originally posted by MF DELPH
It is absolute truth, and my skills of reading and comprehension are quite impeccable, as they have to be for my profession. You drafted Krypton Man for this match, not Eradicator. Krypton Man is a specific iteration of Eradicator from a specific arc (Superman Vol. 2 #42 to Action Comics Vol. 1 #667) with unique properties. You conflated Krypton Man with all of Eradicator's subsequent incarnations, primarily Reign of Superman Eradicator and afterwards. If you had drafted Eradicator outright I wouldn't have taken issue, but you didn't, you specifically drafted Krypton Man, so by forum rule, not simply my opinion, you're limited to that specific arc, just like if you had, for example, drafted Supernova, you would not have access to all of Booster Gold's subsequent feats from later arcs as well, you'd be limited to that specific arc in 52 when he was actually Supernova. Now, as I said before, this is not to insult you or an indictment of your character. I'm just pointing out an actual issue with the manner in which this thread transpired. Your flippancy is wasted on me and doesn't change the facts of this matter. I'm not saying you intentionally cheated, I'm saying that there are technical issues and outright rule breaks with the argument you presented.
I picked Eradicator and very specifically produced scans to prove that the left over consciousness of that version used T-vo and hence it was perfectly legal for me to use. That's why I don't give a shit about what you think is "absolute truth".

And the difference between Supernova and Eradicator is that Supernova was an amped Booster Gold, here I used a specific issue from which the version of Eradicator I chose reappeared. You didn't see me using feats from David Conner or Fortress Eradicator, did you? So why all this bitching?

And everyone is surprised that Quan would vote opposite me./sarcasm

BTW, cry more quan. I won.

fu

MF DELPH
I just want to make it perfectly clear to you Abhi, I don't have any issues with you personally, so please don't take this as an attack. As a judge I need to do what's right in the interest of fairness, impartiality, and the established rules. That is why I'm pointing this out. If these kind of matches are going to be taking place everyone involved, both participants and judges, need to be operating under the same set of rules and understand the rules.

MF DELPH
Originally posted by abhilegend
I picked Eradicator and very specifically produced scans to prove that the left over consciousness of that version used T-vo and hence it was perfectly legal for me to use. That's why I don't give a shit about what you think is "absolute truth".

And the difference between Supernova and Eradicator is that Supernova was an amped Booster Gold, here I used a specific issue from which the version of Eradicator I chose reappeared. You didn't see me using feats from David Conner or Fortress Eradicator, did you? So why all this bitching?

And everyone is surprised that Quan would vote opposite me./sarcasm

BTW, cry more quan. I won.

fu

No, per the OP, you picked Krypton Man, not Eradicator. It's in the OP of this thread that Psycho Gundam posted. You argued for Eradicator, but you had Krypton Man.

Krypton Man is an arc specific iteration of Eradicator, just as Supernova is an arc specific iteration of Booster Gold.

MF DELPH

quanchi112
Originally posted by abhilegend
I picked Eradicator and very specifically produced scans to prove that the left over consciousness of that version used T-vo and hence it was perfectly legal for me to use. That's why I don't give a shit about what you think is "absolute truth".

And the difference between Supernova and Eradicator is that Supernova was an amped Booster Gold, here I used a specific issue from which the version of Eradicator I chose reappeared. You didn't see me using feats from David Conner or Fortress Eradicator, did you? So why all this bitching?

And everyone is surprised that Quan would vote opposite me./sarcasm

BTW, cry more quan. I won.

fu Enjoy your tainted victory. I didn't initially bring this up but do agree this wasn't done in fairness. If you would have outdebated cleanly I would have no problems. Again, it isn't just coming from me and don't take it personally.

abhilegend
Originally posted by MF DELPH
I just want to make it perfectly clear to you Abhi, I don't have any issues with you personally, so please don't take this as an attack. As a judge I need to do what's right in the interest of fairness, impartiality, and the established rules. That is why I'm pointing this out. If these kind of matches are going to be taking place everyone involved, both participants and judges, need to be operating under the same set of rules and understand the rules.
I also want you to know that I don't do things which are illegal in a match according to rules. Smurph and Digi can testify to that. I just did what everyone does, making loopholes around rules in a match.

Anyway, all you're doing here is bitching IMO that not everyone sees the things you do, no offense. You could make the rules clear the next time if you like.Originally posted by MF DELPH
No, per the OP, you picked Krypton Man, not Eradicator. It's in the OP of this thread that Psycho Gundam posted. You argued for Eradicator, but you had Krypton Man.

Krypton Man is an arc specific iteration of Eradicator, just as Supernova is an arc specific iteration of Booster Gold.
You are putting your fingers in your ear at this point. The feats I used is usable for the fight, majority of judges felt that way too. So please stop.Originally posted by MF DELPH
For reference, see below:



^Krypton Man.
Repeating yourself wouldn't make you right. Here is what I posted to Gundam.



Anything done by Krypton Man or its programming/consciousness is fair game by match rules. If not, point me to the rule which denies that.

Existere
It's pretty hilarious that all Quan needs to do is post a thumbs up, and people flip their shit as if he's done anything different than a series of other posters in this thread.

I've avoided posting about the judgement because tourney experience teaches me that it's not the place of a battlezone competitor to publicly call out judges. If something's amiss about the way a match is handled, it's best brought up by a separate third party, hopefully a judge - so thanks Delph for taking the time to do that.

Also thanks to others who read and posted their opinion - it's actually refreshing to have this kind of heat after a match, feels like some life is back in the forum. That being said, battlezones are meant to be fun, not a headache, and I hope this match is having a net positive benefit on the battlezone forum. Definitely, everybody should be encouraged to go for a belt title- we have only 3 out of 9 filled.

I think the best takeaway from this match is: Clearly there are some bumps to iron out for future belt matches, and now some of them are really obvious. Abhi benefited from some serious judge/host/participant confusion about prep rules, standard equipment, duplication, character drafting etc. This is shit that we used to be relatively on top of in tournaments, so hopefully we get some more matches going and judging these things starts to feel a little more familiar to everybody. I'm not writing this to harp on judges because, as I posted in the discussion thread, I'm satisfied with my own performance in the match either way - but there obviously shouldn't be this much contention between judge rulings regarding a couple black-and-white rules.

Existere
I'm not diving back into a debate in this thread. I think the following is worth clearing up though, for future mid-herald battlezone matches, and this is all I have to say on it.

-------------------------------

Originally posted by abhilegend

Anything done by Krypton Man or its programming/consciousness is fair game by match rules. If not, point me to the rule which denies that.

Ok.



Clearly you were willing to recognize and affirm that Krypton Man was a different version with a different power level when it suited you. The above quote is your PM to me stating your character draft. When it came down to the match, however, you immediately blurred the lines of Eradicator versions to attempt to 'trick me' into battling a character with T-Vo.

Further, when attempting to draft Krypton Man in the mid herald category, you pointed myself and PG to your own respect thread to see Krypton Man's feats. Neither of your T-Vo feats are listed under Krypton Man, but instead under Kem-L and Fortress, the same persona you emphasize is above KM in the PM I quoted. You could maybe make a case that Krypton Man may be capable of the same thing (you wouldn't have much evidence, but you could try and make a case), but to argue that a later version of Eradicator is Krypton Man is directly contradicting two pieces of argument that you used to get Krypton Man as a mid herald character in the first place. Certainly, at the very least, it's violating the spirit with which you drafted him, and I'm curious to see how the next mid herald battlezone goes down with Krypton Man as the belt holder.

leonidas
Originally posted by leonidas
thumb up

i'm curious--what is the battlefield going to be in this low herald match that will take place eventually? smurph, any thoughts?

sneer

Existere
My bad.

I think there are lots of Low Herald characters with powers specific to battlefields, which is why I didn't reply before. Somewhere generic on Earth might be best. Maybe we should have the host choose a place?

leonidas
Originally posted by Existere
My bad.

I think there are lots of Low Herald characters with powers specific to battlefields, which is why I didn't reply before. Somewhere generic on Earth might be best. Maybe we should have the host choose a place?

sure, but it would help to know in advance is all. it would suck to take someone and find out they were limited suddenly by a random choice of BF. an empty city like detroit (wait, is that redundant...? nyuck-nyuck!) sound fair? or we can have a host choose, that's fine, just a BF that allows for lots of options would be cool.

psycho gundam
To be honest this was mostly my fault for not being a hard ass.
Contemplating if this should be a wash.

Next match will be NO TOLERANCE.

Deadass

psycho gundam
Originally posted by leonidas
thumb up

i'm curious--what is the battlefield going to be in this low herald match that will take place eventually? smurph, any thoughts? It has to be really neutral

Send me your pick, or whoever is challenging either/or Smurph and Digi

psycho gundam
Originally posted by MF DELPH
For reference, see below:



^Krypton Man. This was reflected in pm's also:

http://i58.tinypic.com/5oxi1k.jpg

Nobody ever wants loopholes where you get feats ffrom newer version for older versions

carver9
Not insulting anyone here but Galan should've been a judge along with operator, ODG, Leo, and Pr (the judges that were here could have stayed as well, the people I've named are additions). Things would have went a lot differently imo. I agree with everything DELPH said. He is on point. Don't think things were explored/analyzed as much as DELPH looked at everything. ABHI won, good job buddy but sorry to say this but if we get another group to come in here and vote i think things would be a lot different. Overall, good job team.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Existere
I'm not diving back into a debate in this thread. I think the following is worth clearing up though, for future mid-herald battlezone matches, and this is all I have to say on it.

-------------------------------



Ok.



Clearly you were willing to recognize and affirm that Krypton Man was a different version with a different power level when it suited you. The above quote is your PM to me stating your character draft. When it came down to the match, however, you immediately blurred the lines of Eradicator versions to attempt to 'trick me' into battling a character with T-Vo.

Further, when attempting to draft Krypton Man in the mid herald category, you pointed myself and PG to your own respect thread to see Krypton Man's feats. Neither of your T-Vo feats are listed under Krypton Man, but instead under Kem-L and Fortress, the same persona you emphasize is above KM in the PM I quoted. You could maybe make a case that Krypton Man may be capable of the same thing (you wouldn't have much evidence, but you could try and make a case), but to argue that a later version of Eradicator is Krypton Man is directly contradicting two pieces of argument that you used to get Krypton Man as a mid herald character in the first place. Certainly, at the very least, it's violating the spirit with which you drafted him, and I'm curious to see how the next mid herald battlezone goes down with Krypton Man as the belt holder.
The feats I linked to Kem-L was a fault in doing the respect thread. It was originally going to be in Krypton Man section. Anyway, I've said whatever I want to say at this point. No bad feelings I hope.

Digi
Hey everyone, how's the match goi-

http://i.imgur.com/KdxbjFI.gif

leonidas
laughing out loud

celeyhyga17
Originally posted by Digi
Hey everyone, how's the match goi-

http://i.imgur.com/KdxbjFI.gif
laughing

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