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KMC Mid-Herald Belt Battlezone: Abhilegend vs Smurph
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psycho gundam
The Nightmare of Solomon

Gender: Male
Location: Konpei Island

KMC Mid-Herald Belt Battlezone: Abhilegend vs Smurph

This is a battlezone between abhilegend and Smurph for the KMC Mid-herald belt.

Rules:


1. No posting limit (free form posting, instead).

2. No time manipulation.

3. No insta-kill tactics such as teleporting into solid objects. Even if an attack isnít instantaneous, any attack that could, as a matter of its nature, not be defended against is considered this.

3. Characters will not have knowledge of who they are fighting pre-fight. In battle, they will only be able to know things if the two characters already knew each other.

4. Non-offensive matter manipulation is allowed.

5. No duplication.

6. No power copying in any way.

7. Only experience carries from previous fights, and only information you could have reasonably discovered in the fight is learned.

8. No immortal characters. Characters should be able to be defeated by reasonably accessible means. Healing factors strong enough to blur the line with this are also banned.

9. While battlefields will change, it is assumed that nobody can leave the whole of the battlefield by any means. This also means no BFR or self-BFR. If you fly too far, you hit an impenetrable wall.

10. No reality warping.

11. Rules may be changed if certain strategies become an obvious problem.

12. Matches last 14 days.

13. ( Prep) You will receive a 5 minute briefing about your opponent. You cannot gather gear that would not be considered standard gear.

Smurph is using God Cable

(please log in to view the image)

vs

Abhilegend's Krypton man

(please log in to view the image)

The fight is in a super walmart parking lot

(please log in to view the image)


__________________

Old Post Jun 17th, 2014 05:51 AM
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psycho gundam
The Nightmare of Solomon

Gender: Male
Location: Konpei Island

quote:

abhilegend wrote on Jun 17th, 2014 10:11 AM:
Abhilegend post 1.

Since there is 5 minutes of prep for us before we get into battle, first eradicator goes intangible himself like he has done several times now.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...rman_2.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...man_26.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...man_19.jpg.html


And then creates a clone of Superman like Eradicator has already done before. From stone nonetheless.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...lone_1.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...lone_2.jpg.html

And yes, this was the same Krypton Man version of Eradicator as explained here.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...sclone.JPG.html

So an amnesiac, depowered Eradicator recreated Supermanís body in seconds? A fully powered eradicator should be capable of doing that instantly. And yes, that clone body of Superman was as strong as him as stated by Superman himself.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...rman_8.jpg.html

And if anybodyís wondering, Eradicator matrix which is the core programming of every version of Eradicator has been used to transmute random aliens into perfect Kryptonians down to molecular level along with the entire planet.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...tb13_2.jpg.html

So, after creating the clone body of Superman Eradicator transfers a portion of its own program into the clone body to control it. Eradicator can exist in several bodies at once as shown here.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...ress_5.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...ress_6.jpg.html

After that Eradicator amps the clone body with the energies from the core of the sun which he can channel at will.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...rman_5.jpg.html

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...lsun_1.jpg.html

And then creates a skintight forcefield around the clone like this.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...man_10.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...man_11.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...man_12.jpg.html


So now we have a sunamped clone of Superman in our midst and Eradicator is intangible. Let the match start now.


__________________

Old Post Jun 17th, 2014 04:11 PM
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Facee
Purdiest li'l thing

Gender: Male
Location: Team Authority

Pardon me, but the contestants are allowed to post freely here. You don't have to post for them psycho.


__________________

Old Post Jun 18th, 2014 02:51 PM
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psycho gundam
The Nightmare of Solomon

Gender: Male
Location: Konpei Island

Ok. force of habit.

Digi can erase this message when he gets in here to keep the match clean of interruption


__________________

Old Post Jun 18th, 2014 04:56 PM
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Smurph
------

Gender: Male
Location:

Hey Abhi, gentlejudges and all,

Before I start, disclaimer: I recently had my laptop stolen and I'm doing the bulk of my work from an iPad, which works surprisingly well. I'm hoping this will have zero bearing on the match, but if my image links aren't working (or are the mobile, hard-to-read version of the normal imageshack links) lemme know and I'll work around it. If you can see the same images I can, I am confident that it will be obvious how badly Cable rocks his competition in this match. smile

Anyways, let's get this party started.

I'm the defending champ, representing Cable in his God-like messiah persona straight from the initial 10 issues of 'Cable and Deadpool'. Cable is the same character as he always has been, just much more powerful, and so any feats of Cable's prior to his power up are valid as well, provided that he has the same equipment.

Cable's powers are vastly heightened here in comparison to his average. In his short appearance, God-like Cable accomplished the following messiah feats:

  • Rerouted water to flood half the Sahara

  • Threw all the loggers out of the Amazon rainforest

  • Straightened the leaning tower of Pisa (lol)

  • Stopped the white blood cell count from deteriorating in every AIDS victim in Africa

  • Stopped a daily average of 14 individual acts of terrorism, 11 hundred attempted murders, 7 thousand car accidents

  • Soothed the pain of every single person on the planet dying of any kind of disease


  • Levitated Providence, his massive island fortress/city. Providence was home to thousands, made from retrieved parts of the Graymalkin/Asteroid M space station and, in general, pretty huge:
    http://marvel.wikia.com/Providence_...=Providence.jpg


The above feats, sans Providence, are all referenced in this interview that Cable agreed to partway through godhood:
imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img225/6355/soothepain.jpg

For context, while I don't believe any comics have given an exact number, it is clear that Cable was in this messiah form for over a week (and I think quite a bit over a week, but a week is enough to make my point).

The last three bullets are all context sensitive, and so now we know the bare minimum of the scope and depth of Cable's 'miracles'.

Knowing that, I present three points that I will be basing much of my argumentation on for this debate:

Cable is capable of constant telepathy on a global scale. This is an obvious necessity to soothe the entire world of pain. In later posts, I can give evidence to the actual power that Cable carries in his noggin, but it's important to note that he is both an incredibly powerful and skilled telepath, even in passive feats such as these.

b) Cable is capable of multitasking on a level nearly unheard of even among KMC herald debates. The feats speak for themselves here, but Cable's ability to multitask is one of his biggest strengths in a KMC tourney match where he needs to provide simultaneous defence and offence.

c) God-like Cable has never been seen in a fight at full strength. He went up against Silver Surfer, fought across oceans, broke Surfer's board, lost. Fair enough, it's the Silver freaking Surfer... but, for what weight it holds, and I believe it holds quite a bit in this match: Cable wasn't rested, Cable had been performing miracles for days, and Cable is not in danger of burning out, as he was in that fight.

With those feats spoken for, I feel I've established character and I'm ready to jump into the match itself.

Prep Stuff

According to Belt Rules, Cable is informed 5 minutes prior to the match who he is facing - only names, and Nick Fury's briefing- and allowed some bare minimum of actions prior to the match. I'm writing this because I feel like it's somewhat unclear what's allowed and what's not with prep, so I'm going to walk through this:

As per previous matches, Cable is going to spend his 5 minutes erecting a super tough shield.

(please log in to view the image)

Unlike that scan, where a shield was created in response to gunfire, Cable is going to spend his whole 5 minutes making his shield and meditating.

Cable will prepare to make himself telepathically invisible to attackers as soon as the match begins. Given that Cable's telepathy is globe-spanning, there should be no time between the beginning of the match and his telepathic disappearance.
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img.../invisibleo.jpg

With those two defensive measures taken, let the battle begin.

Battle

First, two items that I believe will dictate how this match will be viewed:


  • Reflexes
    As I said in the match against Wonder Woman, if I were debating against Cable, one of my first lines of argument would be to claim that his reflexes were unable to deal with an assault from my character.

    Well, setting aside the telekinetic shield and telepathic invisibility, even if a blitz were launched against Cable's God-like form, we can see that he is more than capable of dealing with it:

    http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img...urferblitz1.jpg
    http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img...urferblitz2.jpg

    In those scans, he readies and responds to Silver Surfer's blitz from orbit.

    I've zoomed on the dialogue for emphasis:

    http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img...oomvaporize.png
    http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img...umptydumpty.jpg
    http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img...umpydumpty2.jpg

    Not only is Cable capable of responding to the blitz - while still levitating Providence -, he then speaks to how Surfer and he are sundering the environment around them at the atomic level, and repairing it immediately.

    I submit that if Cable is capable of not only protecting himself from a blitz from Surfer, but also atomically restructuring their environment as soon as it is damaged, in a fight that takes them from Providence and across the pacific, then he is capable of the thinking speed required to summon basic defences against his opponents in this fight.

  • Telepathy

    This is the second big tenant that I see dictating this match.

    Before I start: I really, really don't believe that Abhi's attempts to make a Super-clone are going to work, for mostly logistical, but also rules-based reasons, but I'm going to get to that later. For now, let's ignore the looming question of whether or not Cable is facing one enemy or two, and focus on this scan:

    http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...man_12.jpg.html

    Abhi's Krypton Man, vs. Superman at the time that Krypton Man would have known him (and therefore, should a clone of Superman be made, it would be made in the image of the Superman in that scan).

    "You -- you can 'hear' my thoughts?"
    "Certainly. Did you forget we were once linked telepathically?"


    This will be child's play. Not only does this Superman show zero forms of telepathic defence, Krypton Man himself has telepathy, which, by both definition and comic book tradition*, outlaws him from being immune to telepathy.

    *Sage and Emma Frost are both examples of comic book characters who need to turn their telepathy off in order to establish an immunity to outside telepathy.

    The previous two times that I've had to prove that Cable is the top mid herald character, I've been up against Wonder Woman and later Magneto, both opponents with established telepathic immunity of a sort. Abhi has drafted no such immunity, and I am happy to begin and end this match by pointing that out.

    Even if telepathic defences exist - and I assume Abhi is going to say that they do, because he has no other route here beyond admitting my victory -, it's worth spending time stating that Eradicator is not up against a junior telepath here.

    Cable's telepathy was truly God-like. I've shown that he was capable of sifting through the thoughts of the world, constantly soothing pain and preventing terrorism, murder and traffic accidents globally.

    Talking actual telepathic might though, let's use a direct comparison:

    Emma Frost is probably Marvel Earth's premier telepath, so long as Jean is dead and Xavier is out of combat.

    When Emma and X-Men flew near the outer border of Providence. Emma was hooked up to the on-board Cerebra, boosting her telepathy by the power of 10. They ask if she's holding up, she replies that her psychic shields are barely holding, and notes that Cable has telepathically ionized the Earth's atmosphere.

    So, the weight of Cable's mind is such that while he's performing his godly duties - soothing pain, helping citizens with their taxes -, Emma Frost can barely hold up a psychic shield despite the fact that he has focused utterly zero attention on her, and, on top of it all, his brain powerz have telepathically ionized the atmosphere. Now, that's comic book lingo, and has no quantitative value in this match, but relatively I think we can say

    Cable's telepathy > Eradicator's telepathy, and unproven defences.



Conclusion
The match starts.

Cable instantly becomes telepathically invisible. He has a pre-established telekinetic shield that he will constantly repair and reinforce throughout the battle.

Cable mindphucks the hell out of his opponents. IF Abhi is at all successful in creating a Super-clone here (which, again I stress, I sincerely doubt and will speak to later), it will only serve to be detrimental when Cable assumes control of the clone's mind and turns a 1 vs. 2 match into 2 vs. 1.

Later, I'll address Cable's telekinesis, esoteric powers, and the numerous holes in my opponent's prep.

Old Post Jun 19th, 2014 07:23 AM
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abhilegend
Reborn

Gender: Male
Location: Fortress of Solitude

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Existere
Hey Abhi, gentlejudges and all,
Hey smurph.

quote:
Cable's powers are vastly heightened here in comparison to his average. In his short appearance, God-like Cable accomplished the following messiah feats:

  • Rerouted water to flood half the Sahara

  • Threw all the loggers out of the Amazon rainforest

  • Straightened the leaning tower of Pisa (lol)

  • Stopped the white blood cell count from deteriorating in every AIDS victim in Africa

  • Stopped a daily average of 14 individual acts of terrorism, 11 hundred attempted murders, 7 thousand car accidents

  • Soothed the pain of every single person on the planet dying of any kind of disease


  • Levitated Providence, his massive island fortress/city. Providence was home to thousands, made from retrieved parts of the Graymalkin/Asteroid M space station and, in general, pretty huge:
    http://marvel.wikia.com/Providence_...=Providence.jpg
All good and dandy I guess.

quote:
The above feats, sans Providence, are all referenced in this interview that Cable agreed to partway through godhood:
imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img225/6355/soothepain.jpg

For context, while I don't believe any comics have given an exact number, it is clear that Cable was in this messiah form for over a week (and I think quite a bit over a week, but a week is enough to make my point).
Oh, that would be good.

quote:
The last three bullets are all context sensitive, and so now we know the bare minimum of the scope and depth of Cable's 'miracles'.

Knowing that, I present three points that I will be basing much of my argumentation on for this debate:
We'll see about that.

quote:
Cable is capable of constant telepathy on a global scale. This is an obvious necessity to soothe the entire world of pain. In later posts, I can give evidence to the actual power that Cable carries in his noggin, but it's important to note that he is both an incredibly powerful and skilled telepath, even in passive feats such as these.

b) Cable is capable of multitasking on a level nearly unheard of even among KMC herald debates. The feats speak for themselves here, but Cable's ability to multitask is one of his biggest strengths in a KMC tourney match where he needs to provide simultaneous defence and offence.
You are faced with another incredibly powerful and capable of multitasking opponent in Eradicator smurph. Just to reference how powerful Eradicator was, he was turning Earth's sun red, transmuting entire planet and beating the shit out of Superman at the same time. That's just an enormous leve of power.

quote:
c) God-like Cable has never been seen in a fight at full strength. He went up against Silver Surfer, fought across oceans, broke Surfer's board, lost. Fair enough, it's the Silver freaking Surfer... but, for what weight it holds, and I believe it holds quite a bit in this match: Cable wasn't rested, Cable had been performing miracles for days, and Cable is not in danger of burning out, as he was in that fight.
And Superman is ****ing Superman. You're facing a sun amped Superman here. Good luck to you.

quote:
With those feats spoken for, I feel I've established character and I'm ready to jump into the match itself.
Ah, let's rock.

quote:
Prep Stuff

According to Belt Rules, Cable is informed 5 minutes prior to the match who he is facing - only names, and Nick Fury's briefing- and allowed some bare minimum of actions prior to the match. I'm writing this because I feel like it's somewhat unclear what's allowed and what's not with prep, so I'm going to walk through this:

As per previous matches, Cable is going to spend his 5 minutes erecting a super tough shield.

(please log in to view the image)

Unlike that scan, where a shield was created in response to gunfire, Cable is going to spend his whole 5 minutes making his shield and meditating.
Making a shield to stop a sun amped Superman? Bad choice bro. Lets see how much a top Green Lantern's shield holds against Superman.

http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums...turesof642a.jpg

Knocked the **** out with a single blow.

http://i.imgur.com/6OP60Zj.jpg

And John's Auto-shields can protect him from a planet blowing up and a supernova.

http://img19.photobucket.com/albums...sey_TPB_091.jpg

http://img19.photobucket.com/albums...sey_TPB_092.jpg

http://img19.photobucket.com/albums...sey_TPB_093.jpg

http://img19.photobucket.com/albums...sey_TPB_094.jpg

http://img19.photobucket.com/albums...sey_TPB_095.jpg

http://img19.photobucket.com/albums...sey_TPB_096.jpg

http://img19.photobucket.com/albums...sey_TPB_097.jpg

http://img19.photobucket.com/albums...sey_TPB_098.jpg

quote:
Cable will prepare to make himself telepathically invisible to attackers as soon as the match begins. Given that Cable's telepathy is globe-spanning, there should be no time between the beginning of the match and his telepathic disappearance.
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img.../invisibleo.jpg
Like I told you once before, that's not what happened.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums...ns/CD003-16.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums...ns/CD003-17.jpg

So state of art technology can detect him. Eradicator will sure as heck do it.

quote:
With those two defensive measures taken, let the battle begin.

Battle

First, two items that I believe will dictate how this match will be viewed:

[list]
[*]Reflexes
As I said in the match against Wonder Woman, if I were debating against Cable, one of my first lines of argument would be to claim that his reflexes were unable to deal with an assault from my character.

Well, setting aside the telekinetic shield and telepathic invisibility, even if a blitz were launched against Cable's God-like form, we can see that he is more than capable of dealing with it:

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img...urferblitz1.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img...urferblitz2.jpg

In those scans, he readies and responds to Silver Surfer's blitz from orbit.

I've zoomed on the dialogue for emphasis:

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img...oomvaporize.png
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img...umptydumpty.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img...umpydumpty2.jpg

Not only is Cable capable of responding to the blitz - while still levitating Providence -, he then speaks to how Surfer and he are sundering the environment around them at the atomic level, and repairing it immediately.

I submit that if Cable is capable of not only protecting himself from a blitz from Surfer, but also atomically restructuring their environment as soon as it is damaged, in a fight that takes them from Providence and across the pacific, then he is capable of the thinking speed required to summon basic defences against his opponents in this fight.
You are trying to use a scene where Surfer actually blitzed him as a feat to say that he can avoid a blitz from sun amped superman?



I mean do you know who Superman is?

Superman has faster than nanosecond reflexes.

http://s1113.photobucket.com/albums...nteraction1.jpg
http://s1113.photobucket.com/albums...nteraction2.jpg

Another nanosecond feat. AOS 603

http://s1113.photobucket.com/albums...nd_reaction.jpg
http://s1113.photobucket.com/albums...nt=as603p19.jpg

Stops professor zoom into his tracks.

http://s1113.photobucket.com/albums...ngPoint5022.jpg

Makes a running jay garrick look like statue.

http://s1113.photobucket.com/albums...ica010-0203.jpg

And jay himself has nanosecond reflexes.

http://i.imgur.com/8aW6e8Z.jpg

We're not talking about slow ass Silver Surfer here, who has nearly no combat speed feats. We're talking about Superman, the guy who can race ****ing Flash to a near standstill and make another Flash look like a statue. And since its an amped Superman, I get all the feats he has.


Continued.....


__________________

Last edited by abhilegend on Jun 19th, 2014 at 12:01 PM

Old Post Jun 19th, 2014 11:56 AM
abhilegend is currently offline Click here to Send abhilegend a Private Message Find more posts by abhilegend Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
abhilegend
Reborn

Gender: Male
Location: Fortress of Solitude

quote:
[*]Telepathy
GOT YA!!!

quote:
This is the second big tenant that I see dictating this match.

Before I start: I really, really don't believe that Abhi's attempts to make a Super-clone are going to work, for mostly logistical, but also rules-based reasons, but I'm going to get to that later. For now, let's ignore the looming question of whether or not Cable is facing one enemy or two, and focus on this scan:

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...man_12.jpg.html

Abhi's Krypton Man, vs. Superman at the time that Krypton Man would have known him (and therefore, should a clone of Superman be made, it would be made in the image of the Superman in that scan).

"You -- you can 'hear' my thoughts?"
"Certainly. Did you forget we were once linked telepathically?"
Ah, yes. Superman and Eradicator were telepathically linked and that link is what he's talking about.

quote:
This will be child's play. Not only does this Superman show zero forms of telepathic defence, Krypton Man himself has telepathy, which, by both definition and comic book tradition*, outlaws him from being immune to telepathy.

*Sage and Emma Frost are both examples of comic book characters who need to turn their telepathy off in order to establish an immunity to outside telepathy.

The previous two times that I've had to prove that Cable is the top mid herald character, I've been up against Wonder Woman and later Magneto, both opponents with established telepathic immunity of a sort. Abhi has drafted no such immunity, and I am happy to begin and end this match by pointing that out.
And you got trapped in your own trap. I'll point that out shortly.

quote:
Even if telepathic defences exist - and I assume Abhi is going to say that they do, because he has no other route here beyond admitting my victory -, it's worth spending time stating that Eradicator is not up against a junior telepath here.
Its not Superman Cable is against which if I start using his TP resisting feats would fry Cable's mind. Its eradicator's mind in Superman's body he's up against.

quote:
Cable's telepathy was truly God-like. I've shown that he was capable of sifting through the thoughts of the world, constantly soothing pain and preventing terrorism, murder and traffic accidents globally.

Talking actual telepathic might though, let's use a direct comparison:

Emma Frost is probably Marvel Earth's premier telepath, so long as Jean is dead and Xavier is out of combat.

When Emma and X-Men flew near the outer border of Providence. Emma was hooked up to the on-board Cerebra, boosting her telepathy by the power of 10. They ask if she's holding up, she replies that her psychic shields are barely holding, and notes that Cable has telepathically ionized the Earth's atmosphere.

So, the weight of Cable's mind is such that while he's performing his godly duties - soothing pain, helping citizens with their taxes -, Emma Frost can barely hold up a psychic shield despite the fact that he has focused utterly zero attention on her, and, on top of it all, his brain powerz have telepathically ionized the atmosphere. Now, that's comic book lingo, and has no quantitative value in this match, but relatively I think we can say

Cable's telepathy > Eradicator's telepathy, and unproven defences.

[/list]
I object milord. Lets look another way. You know the mysterious power up Superman got in 90's? Yeah, the astral combat technique known as T-vo. Yeah, the same technique which allowed him to to first stalemate Dominus.

http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums...OfSteel089a.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums...OfSteel089b.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums...OfSteel089c.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums...OfSteel089d.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums...OfSteel089e.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums...OfSteel089f.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums...OfSteel089g.jpg

Untill Dominus distracted him. And then completely own him.

http://imgur.com/UWUv2l0
http://imgur.com/FUMM8FU
http://imgur.com/GBatPmo
http://imgur.com/g23epdU
http://imgur.com/TGJPdXO
http://imgur.com/lgd7zio
http://imgur.com/OHVnZn6
http://imgur.com/h1bvs5L
http://imgur.com/9OjPGYV
http://imgur.com/QJUnsRu
http://imgur.com/fFHqeA7
http://imgur.com/2qWvqZ4
http://imgur.com/It6aJ8d
http://imgur.com/0Xa4fAA
http://imgur.com/PqRcgAw
http://imgur.com/R7Zsy1U
http://imgur.com/BExJidu
http://imgur.com/ecTVnix
http://imgur.com/AOdoiVP
http://imgur.com/sIOfoaf
http://imgur.com/VAwjLUw
http://imgur.com/8fcVhsC

And Dominus was a multiversal level telepath. Casually dumping the information of an infinite multiverse in Superman's head.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/157...200007.jpg.html

If that wasn't enough, Superman literally overpowered God's will itself.

Superman overpowers God's will of making everyone forget that hal jordan was spectre by T-vo

http://s1113.photobucket.com/albums...rent=JLA207.jpg

http://s1113.photobucket.com/albums...dswillvstvo.jpg
http://s1113.photobucket.com/albums...swillvstvo1.jpg

Now we've established Superman would push Cable's shit in astral combat using T-vo, right? Well. Superman was totally helpless against a fraction of Krypton Man's persona embedded in Fortress which Lois accidentally took to their apartment.

http://i.imgur.com/8oqKdj9.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/GsPT3DC.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Ws1vKn8.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/FGdiH4O.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ujkIdkz.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/KqOoBqn.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/dHOcOAe.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/CrblxTg.jpg

Which was the leftover consciousness of Eradicator in the fortress after Superman dissipated Krypton Man as stated here.

http://i.imgur.com/9ZqiCGS.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/tAnQt3V.jpg


So a minute fraction of Krypton Man overpowered Superman in astral combat while Superman can take down a multiversal telepath and defy God's will itself. Yeah, Cable and Emma Frost can go **** themselves.
quote:
Conclusion
The match starts.

Cable instantly becomes telepathically invisible.
Eradicator would see him perfectly.
quote:
He has a pre-established telekinetic shield that he will constantly repair and reinforce throughout the battle.
An amped Superman would oneshot any field he can create.

quote:
Cable mindphucks the hell out of his opponents. IF Abhi is at all successful in creating a Super-clone here (which, again I stress, I sincerely doubt and will speak to later), it will only serve to be detrimental when Cable assumes control of the clone's mind and turns a 1 vs. 2 match into 2 vs. 1.
Cable tries that, Eradicator crushes his mind like a grape and shoves his God like head up his God like ass.

quote:
Later, I'll address Cable's telekinesis, esoteric powers, and the numerous holes in my opponent's prep.
Yeah, I'm not even started here and the match already looks finished. Shame.


__________________

Last edited by abhilegend on Jun 19th, 2014 at 12:00 PM

Old Post Jun 19th, 2014 11:57 AM
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Smurph
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Gender: Male
Location:

Looks like it's time to bust some myths. *knuckle cracking*

Smurph Post 2

In this post, I'm going to tackle the two very sketchy legs that Abhi stands on: Creating a Super-clone, and replicating T-vo. I believe that both tactics are very misleading and, upon scrutiny, not viable, but I'll let the judges ultimately decide that.

Here's how I see it:

  • Myth 1: Eradicator can clone and/or duplicate Superman in prep

    Myth:
    quote:
    And then creates a clone of Superman like Eradicator has already done before. From stone nonetheless.

    http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...lone_1.jpg.html
    http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...lone_2.jpg.html


    Abhi wants to create a separate, independently acting body during prep, replicating Sundipped Superman, using the above scans as evidence.

    I don't believe he CAN create a clone, because I think he lacks two key components. I think even if he WERE able to create a clone, it would in no way be similar to Superman, and finally, if he were able to pull off his plan, I would argue that he would violate battlezone rules.

    Problem by problem then:

    1. First missing component: A separate entity

      When Eradicator made the Superman-like body, he was attempting to create a body for himself to inhabit.

      Eradicator has not willfully made a second body and occupied both of them. To be clear, in his last post, Abhi says:

      quote:
      Its not Superman Cable is against which if I start using his TP resisting feats would fry Cable's mind. Its eradicator's mind in Superman's body he's up against.


      It's clear that Abhi has brought one character into the battle (Eradicator), has attempted to create a second body (Superclone), and expects Eradicator to occupy both.

      Only... he's never done that.

      Abhi claimed that he has:

      quote:
      So, after creating the clone body of Superman Eradicator transfers a portion of its own program into the clone body to control it. Eradicator can exist in several bodies at once as shown here.

      http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...ress_5.jpg.html
      http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...ress_6.jpg.html


      But what we see there is a version of the Eradicator that has merged with Dr. David Conner, which then merges with a version of the Eradicator that has merged with the fortress of solitude.

      Confused yet?

      Wikipedia lays it all out for us, including clear citations:
      Krypton Man Wiki

      "Following Superman's return, the Eradicator's apparently dead body is examined at S.T.A.R. Labs, and merged with Dr. David Connor, currently dying of a fatal disease.[30] The merged Eradicator joins the Outsiders, and occasionally teams up with Superman.

      Return
      (Separate Section)

      The original Eradicator program is revealed to still exist in the Fortress of Solitude's computers and, following the destruction of the Fortress in Superman's battle with Dominus, the Eradicator program takes the form of Kem-L, and again attempted to brainwash Superman.[31][32] The David Connor Eradicator realizes that the program is still active, and, when the Fortress Eradicator attempts to merge with the Brainiac-13 program to use the futuristic technology to recreate Krypton once again, merges with the remains of the Fortress to control it and take it from Earth.[33][34]"


      What Abhi would LIKE us to believe is that Eradicator can willfully clone himself in separate bodies, not unlike The Engineer or Doctor Manhattan. Unfortunately for Abhi, Eradicator has never done this. In the above example, Eradicator's body merged with a human being, and separate programming merged with the Fortress computers, before they could exist in separate bodies. Not exactly what we were sold in Abhi's prep.

      In one example, Eradicator creates a body and then inhabits it. In another, Eradicator's programming is split and already merged with separate entities. Without a clear separate entity to control the body, I'm unwilling to believe that Abhi's character can willfully duplicate it's programming and inhabit the husk of a body that it creates with matter manipulation.

    2. Second missing component: Solar energy

      When Eradicator made a Superman body to inhabit, he didn't do it on his own. As explained in each of these scans:

      http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...lone_1.jpg.html

      "Over thirty years of bio-converted solar energy is stored in this body. If I can't reclaim it... I'll forever remain an immaterial wraith"

      http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...sclone.JPG.html

      "My energies joined with those stored in the body"

      I submit that Eradicator did not perform this feat under his own power, but rather could ONLY do it by combining his energies with Superman's and, by his own admission, could not have made a separate body without them. If it wasn't for thirty years of stored energy, Eradicator would still just be an energy ghost. He doesn't have access to said energies here.

      OK, so we know Abhi is missing both 30 years of stored energy and a separate mind to occupy or merge with his husk creation. I think that alone should be enough to debunk this, but I'm willing to take the analysis further: even if Eradicator could make a separate body, it wouldn't be Superman's.

    3. The clone was imperfect

      In the example where Eradicator manipulated Superman's bio energies, created a body and inhabited it, (AKA the example that Abhi uses to claim Eradicator can successfully create a clone), the clone was imperfect.

      http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...sclone.JPG.html

      "But my new body was not perfect. My eyes were light-sensitive... I could no longer directly channel the power of the sun."

      Remember how Abhi wants a sundipped Superman?

      Next problem...

    4. No Superman memories = no Superman

      quote: (post)
      Originally posted by abhilegend
      I mean do you know who Superman is?

      Superman has faster than nanosecond reflexes.
      [FEAT]

      Another nanosecond feat. AOS 603
      [FEAT]

      Stops professor zoom into his tracks.
      [FEAT]

      Makes a running jay garrick look like statue.
      [FEAT]
      And jay himself has nanosecond reflexes.

      http://i.imgur.com/8aW6e8Z.jpg

      We're not talking about slow ass Silver Surfer here, who has nearly no combat speed feats. We're talking about Superman, the guy who can race ****ing Flash to a near standstill and make another Flash look like a statue. And since its an amped Superman, I get all the feats he has.[/b]


      quote:
      Its not Superman Cable is against... Its eradicator's mind in Superman's body he's up against.


      You can't have it both ways, Abhi. You've made it clear this isn't Superman, which means we're very explicitly NOT talking about Superman, and you get none of the feats Superman has.

      I threw all the speed feats together for this point, but it applies to punching, etc. Anything learned, this guy doesn't have.

    5. FINAL SUPERCLONE PROBLEM: If Abhi pulled it off, it would be illegal.

      quote: (post)
      Originally posted by psycho gundam

      5. No duplication.


      If Abhi could create a clone Kryptonian body, duplicate his programming, inhabit it... it would be a plain rule violation. Even if the second body has separate powers, it's surely in the spirit of the rule that "splitting off his programming to occupy a second Superman-like body" is meant to be disallowed.



    Myth 1 Recap:

    Abhi would like to create a clone of Superman and sundip him. I don't believe he can because he is missing both a mind to occupy that body and 30 years of solar energy to make it powerful. This is further complicated because the only clone that Eradicator has created was an imperfect copy that could not absorb solar radiation (and therefore not be sundipped) and finally, would not have Superman's memories, which means Abhi certainly does not get any of Kal's feats.

    Finally, if it all were successful, I would argue it illegal.

Old Post Jun 19th, 2014 06:42 PM
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Smurph
------

Gender: Male
Location:

    NEXT MYTH!

  • Myth 2: Krypton Man can use Torquasm-Vo

    This mythbusting is shorter, mainly because there's less at play here, and the busting is much more to the point:

    The incarnation of Eradicator that Abhilegend drafted has never used T-vo.

    Let's jump back to Wikipedia:

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erad...The_Krypton_Man

    Eradicator, as Krypton Man, was an energy being (hence Abhi's use of intangibility). This is clearly referenced on the Wikipedia article, and backed up by Abhi's own scans.

    This Eradicator never demonstrated T-vo. Abhi has referenced Superman's fight with Dominus to illustrate Eradicator's telepathic superiority and just how powerful that makes him, but Dominus didn't come in to play until Action Comics 747... nearly 100 comics after Action Comics 642, when Eradicator was Krypton Man, messing around with the Earth's sun.

    In that time, Eradicator went through two major character changes.

    The first happened after Eradicator had his mind put back together, and absorbed memories from the Fortress of Solitude:
    http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...sclone.JPG.html

    The second happened after Eradicator was again destroyed, and then merged (separately) with David Connor and the Fortress of Solitude.
    http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...ress_6.jpg.html

    Wikipedia clearly lays out these changes in identity, as does Abhilegend's own Eradicator respect thread.
    http://www.killermovies.com/forums/...mp;pagenumber=1

    Krypton Man Eradicator clearly had a different powerset. He demonstrates telepathy in this power set, using illusions on Superman and mindwiping some noob, but never demonstrated t-vo, until multiple iterations and identity changes later, including having his mind reformed twice, his body merged with other beings twice, and his powerset changing drastically each time.

    Notably, this version of Eradicator boasts intangibility, while the others do not. I submit that Krypton Man does not have t-vo, and certainly cannot use t-vo while intangible, because he's never done that before, because he's never had both powers at once.

    T-vo, by Abhi's scans, requires the entire concentration of it's user. Note how Superman could barely use heat vision and needed Lois to save the day, because he was so absorbed in the mental battle.

    Cable, meanwhile, can do thousands of separate telekinetic and telepathic actions at once, and it will be utterly simple for him to fend off any telepathic intrusion while smashing Eradicator's not-so-intangible body to bits and pieces with his telekinesis.



OK guys, I gotta run, but later I'll get to Cable's TK, and other powers he has on board (Deadpool's healing factor, anyone?)

Later sk8rs.

Old Post Jun 19th, 2014 06:44 PM
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abhilegend
Reborn

Gender: Male
Location: Fortress of Solitude

Abhilegend post 2.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Existere
Looks like it's time to bust some myths. *knuckle cracking*
And looks like its time to bust some mythbusting.



quote:
Smurph Post 2

[quote]Here's how I see it:

[list][*][b]Myth 1: Eradicator can clone and/or duplicate Superman in prep


Myth:

Abhi wants to create a separate, independently acting body during prep, replicating Sundipped Superman, using the above scans as evidence.

I don't believe he CAN create a clone, because I think he lacks two key components. I think even if he WERE able to create a clone, it would in no way be similar to Superman, and finally, if he were able to pull off his plan, I would argue that he would violate battlezone rules.
I don't think so.

quote:
Problem by problem then:

[list=1][*] First missing component: A separate entity

When Eradicator made the Superman-like body, he was attempting to create a body for himself to inhabit.
Sure.

quote:
Eradicator has not willfully made a second body and occupied both of them. To be clear, in his last post, Abhi says:
We're not using characters as they have appeared in comics, leave that argument for vs forum.



quote:
It's clear that Abhi has brought one character into the battle (Eradicator), has attempted to create a second body (Superclone), and expects Eradicator to occupy both.
Yes.

quote:
Only... he's never done that.


You must've never seen the fortress Eradicator fighting David Conner. Or maybe this never happened too?

http://i.imgur.com/NjOwGtb.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/B2433A7.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/TJbeFQb.jpg

Kem-L persona of Eradicator creates a whole new body for himself, just like he does it here from a mere piece of Fortress material.

http://i.imgur.com/8oqKdj9.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/GsPT3DC.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Ws1vKn8.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/FGdiH4O.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ujkIdkz.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/KqOoBqn.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/dHOcOAe.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/CrblxTg.jpg

And yeah, David Conner was shown in the same issue.

http://i.imgur.com/Vg3yAaX.jpg

I'm sorry, but that was a laughable rebuttal.

quote:
Abhi claimed that he has:



But what we see there is a version of the Eradicator that has merged with Dr. David Conner, which then merges with a version of the Eradicator that has merged with the fortress of solitude.
What's this "a version of Eradicator" crap? Eradicator had actually absorbed the mind of David Conner.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...avid_1.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...avid_2.jpg.html

But as stated here, when Fortress computers re-assimilated Eradicator after Superman destroyed his essence. not all of his essence was recreated.

http://i.imgur.com/9ZqiCGS.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/tAnQt3V.jpg

98.73% only. The rest was still embedded in Fortress.

quote:
Confused yet?

Wikipedia lays it all out for us, including clear citations:
Krypton Man Wiki

"Following Superman's return, the Eradicator's apparently dead body is examined at S.T.A.R. Labs, and merged with Dr. David Connor, currently dying of a fatal disease.[30] The merged Eradicator joins the Outsiders, and occasionally teams up with Superman.

Return
(Separate Section)

The original Eradicator program is revealed to still exist in the Fortress of Solitude's computers and, following the destruction of the Fortress in Superman's battle with Dominus, the Eradicator program takes the form of Kem-L, and again attempted to brainwash Superman.[31][32] The David Connor Eradicator realizes that the program is still active, and, when the Fortress Eradicator attempts to merge with the Brainiac-13 program to use the futuristic technology to recreate Krypton once again, merges with the remains of the Fortress to control it and take it from Earth.[33][34]"
Hahaha, ****ing wikipedia? Seriously?

quote:
What Abhi would LIKE us to believe is that Eradicator can willfully clone himself in separate bodies, not unlike The Engineer or Doctor Manhattan. Unfortunately for Abhi, Eradicator has never done this. In the above example, Eradicator's body merged with a human being, and separate programming merged with the Fortress computers, before they could exist in separate bodies. Not exactly what we were sold in Abhi's prep.
Hahaha, what a weak argument. I gave several examples of Eradicator using separate bodies simultaneously. Judges can see it for themselves.

quote:
In one example, Eradicator creates a body and then inhabits it. In another, Eradicator's programming is split and already merged with separate entities. Without a clear separate entity to control the body, I'm unwilling to believe that Abhi's character can willfully duplicate it's programming and inhabit the husk of a body that it creates with matter manipulation.
Of course you don't. Its clear that Eradicator can create separate bodies and inhabit them simultaneously.

quote:
[*] Second missing component: Solar energy

When Eradicator made a Superman body to inhabit, he didn't do it on his own. As explained in each of these scans:

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...lone_1.jpg.html

"Over thirty years of bio-converted solar energy is stored in this body. If I can't reclaim it... I'll forever remain an immaterial wraith"

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...sclone.JPG.html

"My energies joined with those stored in the body"
Seriously? Do you know why he had to do that? His essence was destroyed and he was essentially powerless. Hell, he didn't even knew who he was and believed himself to be Superman.

http://i.imgur.com/x3OpcTG.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/UwNCfSl.jpg
quote:
I submit that Eradicator did not perform this feat under his own power, but rather could ONLY do it by combining his energies with Superman's and, by his own admission, could not have made a separate body without them. If it wasn't for thirty years of stored energy, Eradicator would still just be an energy ghost. He doesn't have access to said energies here.
I'm sorry, being powerless doesn't mean he can't do it when he is powered by the ****ing sun itself. He isn't an energy ghost in Krypton Man's persona. He has the access to sun's core itself.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...lsun_1.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...lsun_2.jpg.html

And as you can see, he can create a ody for himself in instants here.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...rman_4.jpg.html

A barely alive Superman who had depleted his energies fighting Doomsday doesn't has more energy than ****ing sun itself. Weak argument again bro.

quote:
OK, so we know Abhi is missing both 30 years of stored energy and a separate mind to occupy or merge with his husk creation. I think that alone should be enough to debunk this, but I'm willing to take the analysis further: even if Eradicator could make a separate body, it wouldn't be Superman's.
That's some reaching there bro.

quote:
[*]The clone was imperfect

In the example where Eradicator manipulated Superman's bio energies, created a body and inhabited it, (AKA the example that Abhi uses to claim Eradicator can successfully create a clone), the clone was imperfect.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...sclone.JPG.html

"But my new body was not perfect. My eyes were light-sensitive... I could no longer directly channel the power of the sun."
Because Eradicator was amnesiac. When he created a body for himself while fully powerful and had full memory, he could effortlessly channel sun.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...rman_4.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...lsun_1.jpg.html

And the kryptonians he created could do that too.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...tb13_2.jpg.html

http://i.imgur.com/eH2CFer.jpg


It would be utterly laughable to suggest that if a fully coherent Eradicator creates a kryptonian body, it would be defective. There is nobody who knows more than eradicator about Kryptonian physiology.

quote:
Remember how Abhi wants a sundipped Superman?
Sunamped Superman. Sundipped Superman would be too much.

quote:
Next problem...

[*] No Superman memories = no Superman





You can't have it both ways, Abhi. You've made it clear this isn't Superman, which means we're very explicitly NOT talking about Superman, and you get none of the feats Superman has.
Then its good that Eradicator has all the memories of Superman stored in it? When it mindlinked Cleric and Superman. it stored all the memories and transferred it to Cleric.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...sminds.jpg.html

quote:
I threw all the speed feats together for this point, but it applies to punching, etc. Anything learned, this guy doesn't have.
Totally wrong.


__________________

Old Post Jun 20th, 2014 03:18 AM
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abhilegend
Reborn

Gender: Male
Location: Fortress of Solitude

Continued.....

quote:
[*]FINAL SUPERCLONE PROBLEM: If Abhi pulled it off, it would be illegal.



If Abhi could create a clone Kryptonian body, duplicate his programming, inhabit it... it would be a plain rule violation. Even if the second body has separate powers, it's surely in the spirit of the rule that "splitting off his programming to occupy a second Superman-like body" is meant to be disallowed.
I don't think Duplication means you can't create another construct. I'm not duplicating Eradicator's powers after all, I'm creating a construct with separate powers with non-offensive matter manipulation. I have broken no rules.

quote:
[/list]

Myth 1 Recap:

Abhi would like to create a clone of Superman and sundip him. I don't believe he can because he is missing both a mind to occupy that body and 30 years of solar energy to make it powerful. This is further complicated because the only clone that Eradicator has created was an imperfect copy that could not absorb solar radiation (and therefore not be sundipped) and finally, would not have Superman's memories, which means Abhi certainly does not get any of Kal's feats.
Debunked all of that. Honestly, your arguments were fairly weak.

quote:
Finally, if it all were successful, I would argue it illegal.[/list] [/B]
I don't. Its perfectly legal. I haven't duplicated powers, I have used non-offensive matter manipulation and there is no rule broken.

smile

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Existere
[LIST]NEXT MYTH!

[*]Myth 2: Krypton Man can use Torquasm-Vo

This mythbusting is shorter, mainly because there's less at play here, and the busting is much more to the point:

The incarnation of Eradicator that Abhilegend drafted has never used T-vo.
I'm sorry but WTF?

quote:
Let's jump back to Wikipedia:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erad...The_Krypton_Man

Eradicator, as Krypton Man, was an energy being (hence Abhi's use of intangibility). This is clearly referenced on the Wikipedia article, and backed up by Abhi's own scans.
And the energy of that being was lived in Fortress of Solitude. But once again lulz @ using wikipedia.

quote:
This Eradicator never demonstrated T-vo. Abhi has referenced Superman's fight with Dominus to illustrate Eradicator's telepathic superiority and just how powerful that makes him, but Dominus didn't come in to play until Action Comics 747... nearly 100 comics after Action Comics 642, when Eradicator was Krypton Man, messing around with the Earth's sun.
Eradicator's leftover persona used T-vo. If a minute fragment of Eradicator can use T-vo, Eradicator can use it pretty well himself.

(please log in to view the image)
(please log in to view the image)

Only 98.73% of Eradicator's own essence was retrieved from Fortress which had absorbed it after Superman destroyed it. The rest lived on in the fortress and that's how it manifested itself in Clark's apartment when Lois brought a fragment of it.

http://i.imgur.com/dHOcOAe.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/CrblxTg.jpg

It can't be more clear than that. It was the same Krypton Man persona of Eradicator, trying to brainwash Superman and recreate Krypton.

quote:
In that time, Eradicator went through two major character changes.

The first happened after Eradicator had his mind put back together, and absorbed memories from the Fortress of Solitude:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...sclone.JPG.html

The second happened after Eradicator was again destroyed, and then merged (separately) with David Connor and the Fortress of Solitude.
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...ress_6.jpg.html
Totally irrelevant to the topic here. The persona of Krypton Man lived in the Fortress of Solitude.

quote:
Wikipedia clearly lays out these changes in identity, as does Abhilegend's own Eradicator respect thread.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/...mp;pagenumber=1
And you think I don't know about that? You are grossly misdirecting everybody here.

quote:
Krypton Man Eradicator clearly had a different powerset. He demonstrates telepathy in this power set, using illusions on Superman and mindwiping some noob, but never demonstrated t-vo, until multiple iterations and identity changes later, including having his mind reformed twice, his body merged with other beings twice, and his powerset changing drastically each time.
Not really. The persona embedded in Fortress of Solitude never got through any changes.

quote:
Notably, this version of Eradicator boasts intangibility, while the others do not. I submit that Krypton Man does not have t-vo, and certainly cannot use t-vo while intangible, because he's never done that before, because he's never had both powers at once.
Not really. I have proved it was the Krypton Man persona who used T-vo on Superman.

quote:
T-vo, by Abhi's scans, requires the entire concentration of it's user. Note how Superman could barely use heat vision and needed Lois to save the day, because he was so absorbed in the mental battle.
Because he was a n00b. Eradicator is a master of T-vo who can totally pwn Superman in T-vo, transmute Clark's apartment, control kryptonian machinery and whatnot. Totally different users.

quote:
Cable, meanwhile, can do thousands of separate telekinetic and telepathic actions at once, and it will be utterly simple for him to fend off any telepathic intrusion while smashing Eradicator's not-so-intangible body to bits and pieces with his telekinesis.
he can try. While Eradicator smashes his brain into a puddle and transmutes him into a statue like this.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...tion_6.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...tion_5.jpg.html



quote:
OK guys, I gotta run, but later I'll get to Cable's TK, and other powers he has on board (Deadpool's healing factor, anyone?)

Later sk8rs.
I'll wait with dread like always.


__________________

Old Post Jun 20th, 2014 03:19 AM
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Smurph
------

Gender: Male
Location:

I see we've reached that "Haha weak argument bro" part of the debate. Lol, k, 'bro'.

Smurph Post 4: Hammer or Scalpel

I'm gonna focus on Cable's TK for a bit, and revisit telepathy in order to give full focus to his offensive options here.

I believe that telepathy alone is enough to win this battle, but I'm happy to show how either half of Cable's powerset can win this battlezone for me.

  • Telekinesis!

    Important stuff here:

    We've covered how Cable, prior to his fight with Surfer, performed miracles for over a week, including levitating Providence for 24/7 throughout this time period.

    We've covered how, during the fight with Surfer, Cable was performing atomic restructuring of everything they passed, including military ships filled with people.

    Other feats that I think are really important:

    (please log in to view the image)

    BREAKING SURFER'S BOARD!!!!

    smile

    Mostly I think it's important to realize that Cable just has a ridiculous amount of power to bring to bear in this match.

    He can use this telekinetic might as a hammer or a scalpel. We can see that he is incredibly unlimited in his application of this power.

    I'm going to take that application one step further, and I think that step is really important for determining the outcome of this battle:

    Abhi's Krypton Man is a man made of energy.

    http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...rman_2.jpg.html
    "I am composed of pure energy. My form and all it's variations are quite malleable"

    Excellent smile

    Abhi has stated that Krypton Man will be intangible from the start of this battle. To be clear, his 'intangible form' is a mass of energy

    Well, guess what Cable can manipulate with his telekinesis?

    http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img...directblast.jpg

    In the above scan, Cable redirects an energy blast with his telekinesis (also a very good reaction speed feat, given that the blast was inches from it's target), and zigzags it around others to a target of his choosing.

    That was pre-messiah Cable.

    God Cable:
    http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img...ainmissiles.jpg
    http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img...inmissiles2.jpg

    In the above scans, he contains and funnels the energy from 247 missiles and fairly casually at that. Note that, as always, he's still levitating Providence in these scans.

    http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h...ightmaster7.jpg
    Here, he control's Lightmaster's body as well, manipulating the photons as he chooses (for context, he uses Lightmaster to convert a virus into photons and transmit it around the world, to turn everybody pink... it's a lil weird)

    We know Cable's application of telekinesis is nearly unlimited. We know he can manipulate it incredibly finely (atomic restructuring feats) and with utter brute force (Surfer's board), and we can see clearly that he can affect MANY things at once, and among those, energy forms.

    Krypton Man is going to start the battle as an intangible energy form. I am going to grab his form telekinetically, and sunder it- rip it apart with all the force needed to break Surfer's board and levitate Providence for a week, and send the different atoms hurtling across the battlefield.

    That should win the battle on its own, but because I'm happily on a roll, let's move on to telepathy

Old Post Jun 20th, 2014 10:03 PM
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Smurph
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  • Telepathy!

    I really, really see T-Vo as a non-issue, given that Abhi has drafted a character with an energy body, intangibility and telepathy; a different power set than any other Eradicator, and this incarnation of Eradicator never used T-Vo.

    I'll address Abhi's protests regarding this in a moment. First, I'm going to cover telepathy and how it impacts this battle, both in comparison to T-Vo and in the many forms of attack and defence that telepathy encompasses that have nothing at all to do with T-Vo.

    Telepathy uses:
    1. Telepathic Invisibility

      quote:
      Like I told you once before, that's not what happened.

      http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums...ns/CD003-16.jpg
      http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums...ns/CD003-17.jpg

      So state of art technology can detect him. Eradicator will sure as heck do it.


      Well... no. In the scans, it's clear that Cable's telepathic invisibility didn't work because he was technologically detected... but this is where technology betrays us.

      The Eradicator has telepathy. A basic security camera does not. A security camera could have detected Cable in those scans because he was telepathically invisible; things that don't have a mind cannot be fooled, security cameras included.

      By virtue of having telepathy, we know Eradicator can be fooled. It doesn't matter how 'state of the art' his programming is, Cable can control what visual/aural/etc input reaches the central mind/programming/whatever the analogy at hand is.

      Every acting component of this battle has a mind, potential constructs included. All minds are Cable's to play with.

      Cable starts this match completely undetectable by his opponents, and will remain that way throughout the match.

    2. Illusions

      Related to the previous point, Cable can, and will, combine telekinetic and telepathic assaults with manipulations of his opponent's senses. Not only will Eradicator be clueless as to where Cable is, he'll sense dozens of false Cables, and pretty much whatever else I want - Kryptonians, X-Men, etc.

    3. Mindblasts/Psiblasts

      An easy route to take, and a totally valid form of psychic attack that doesn't require engaging in prolonged mental combat/T-Vo.

      http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img...ble039167ie.jpg
      http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img...ble039175of.jpg

      http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/...ble10518fp2.jpg

    4. Suggestions

      http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img...ble011197du.jpg
      "... a telepathic nudge" to turn Colossus' powers off

      http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j...ac/Scans/14.jpg
      Does the same to Cannonball

      Short burst suggestions like these are not matter of engaging in prolonged psychic combat, but a sucker punch during physical combat, and totally within Cable's ability to employ during this fight.

      Suggestions could include "Become tangible!", "Stop your attack", etc.

    5. Telepathic Combat: A Hammer or a Scalpel

      OK, time to address T-Vo:

      http://i.imgur.com/Ws1vKn8.jpg

      ^This is Kem-L, an incarnation of the Eradicator that attacked Superman, and existed via a small piece of machine from the Fortress, and was defeated when that piece was destroyed


      (please log in to view the image)

      ^This is Krypton Man, an incarnation of the Eradicator as an energy being. This version of the Eradicator came to be after Superman destroyed the Eradicator's programming and threw Eradicator into the sun.

      As an energy being, Krypton Man has a powerset unique when compared to every other version of Eradicator.

      http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...rman_4.jpg.html

      "My fusion with the sun's core resulted in a unique rebirth."

      Krypton Man used powers Eradicator would never use again, and he never used powers that Eradicator would use in his later incarnations - including T-Vo.

      Superman beat Krypton Man by using a mystical crystal to disperse his remains in July 1991. Eradicator, as Kem-L, attacks Superman with T-Vo in a comic from the year 2000.

      It's not my job to speculate comic-book reasons for why he could develop new powers - certainly, Eradicator does this in every new form he takes.

      If I were speculating, I'd say that accessing Fortress computers and bonding/living through Fortress technology for a decade could all be significant factors in changing Eradicator's powerset.

      Real talk, I know the reason that Krypton Man never used T-Vo is because he existed a whole decade before T-Vo was invented.

      It is fallacious and misleading to attribute powers to Krypton Man that he never showed. Eradicator is a character whose powerset has changed over the years and - just as if I had drafted Psylocke or Ultron - we can't draft a character and give them powers that they developed 10 years later, with a different appearance, body composition, name, etc.

      I can't stress enough how black and white this issue is, but because I've been in these debates before, I'm going to go ahead and argue what would happen if Krypton Man COULD use T-Vo in this battle:

      quote: (post)
      Originally posted by abhilegend

      So a minute fraction of Krypton Man overpowered Superman in astral combat while Superman can take down a multiversal telepath and defy God's will itself. Yeah, Cable and Emma Frost can go **** themselves.


      I reject the ABC logic that Abhi employs here. I totally respect Superman's feat of defeating Dominus through T-Vo, but it's not Eradicator's feat, and it's faulty to apply it to him.

      Cable's whole character history is built around psi-combat, and his feats include, at one point or another, taking on Jean Grey, Xavier, Apocalypse, Stryfe, Mr. Sinister and X-Man in psi battle. Because his power levels vary, often these characters are above his pay grade (given that he usually sits around mid meta), and yet Cable frequently comes out looking good, because sticking it to people above him is who he is. Eradicator is also capable of looking good against opponents that are superior to him, and that is what happens in those scans.

      It would be faulty to apply X-Man or Xavier's feats to God Cable, even if God Cable proved to be a superior psi, because they're not his feats, just as Eradicator never went up against Dominus or 'God's will itself'. I'm not going to lambast Superman's feats of mental power, I just want to emphasize that they are not Eradicator's feats, and, as we all know VERY well, taking it to Superman does not mean that you can beat the people that Superman has beaten.

      He is, after all, Superman.

      To emphasize my point, Superman uses T-Vo to casually fool Eradicator with an illusion, despite this version of Eradicator being a more developed, stronger form of the one that attacked Superman with T-Vo previously:

      http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...man_11.jpg.html
      http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...man_12.jpg.html

      The mighty psi Eradicator, struck with 'super-hypnotism'. Cable should be fine in this match.

      If Abhi would like to go feat for feat in psionic combat between Cable and Eradicator, we can do that- but he's already played his only card, and I have literally a character history spanning over 28 years to pull from, featuring a character whose shtick is psionic combat.

      And here he's at his most powerful.

      Here Emma Frost w/Cerebra notes that psionic shields are barely holding, and says that Cable has ionized the entire planet with his telepathy, and is listening to every thought in the world.

      Here* Cable reveals that he knows the whole plan, meaning the psionic shields never did hold, and he simply allowed Emma Frost to believe it.

      Here he casually reads Scott's mind, even though Emma shielded it with Cerebra.

      *Deadpool references 'gravity generators' for Providence. It's revealed later that no such generators exist, and Cable has been levitating the island with telekinesis the entire time.

      Cable is, without a doubt, the superior psi with more numerous and superior feats. He can wield his telepathy with precision - using illusions, suggestions and well-timed psiblasts- or he can wield his telepathy like a hammer, and just smash Eradicator's mind to paste. Eradicator's ONLY feat demonstrating telepathic power is from a version of Eradicator that appears a decade later than the one Abhi drafted, and is about stalemating Superman with T-Vo, nothing more.



Conclusion: At best, Eradicator's mind isn't instantly shattered, and he's able to focus on fending off God Cable's telepathic attack long enough to feel Cable rip his body apart with telekinesis. Eradicator at no point in this match has a fighting chance against Cable, through telepathy or otherwise. He has no ability to detect Nathan, much less launch an assault.

In all likelihood though, this match ends the moment that Cable gets a grip on Krypton Man's mind. If not, it ends when his TK grips Krypton Man's body.

Old Post Jun 20th, 2014 10:09 PM
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abhilegend
Reborn

Gender: Male
Location: Fortress of Solitude

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Existere
[list]
[*][b]Telepathy!

I really, [b]really
see T-Vo as a non-issue, given that Abhi has drafted a character with an energy body, intangibility and telepathy; a different power set than any other Eradicator, and this incarnation of Eradicator never used T-Vo.
Totally wrong. Repeating yourself doesn't makes you right.

quote:
I'll address Abhi's protests regarding this in a moment. First, I'm going to cover telepathy and how it impacts this battle, both in comparison to T-Vo and in the many forms of attack and defence that telepathy encompasses that have nothing at all to do with T-Vo.

Telepathy uses:
[list=1][*]Telepathic Invisibility



Well... no. In the scans, it's clear that Cable's telepathic invisibility didn't work because he was technologically detected... but this is where technology betrays us.
And that's where Cable's telepathy betrays him. You know, people whose thoughts are pure light can't be detected by Cable's telepathy.

(please log in to view the image)

Guess what and who is Eradicator?

quote:
The Eradicator has telepathy. A basic security camera does not. A security camera could have detected Cable in those scans because he was telepathically invisible; things that don't have a mind cannot be fooled, security cameras included.
Haha, that's some reaching right there. Eradicator has electronic senses and is clearly a program. Just because he has telepathy doesn't means he is suddenly lacking in his senses. And Cable's TP can't lock on energy beings anyway.


quote:

By virtue of having telepathy, we know Eradicator can be fooled. It doesn't matter how 'state of the art' his programming is, Cable can control what visual/aural/etc input reaches the central mind/programming/whatever the analogy at hand is.
No he can't. He has never done it and one time he encountered an energy being, he failed miserably.

quote:
Every acting component of this battle has a mind, potential constructs included. All minds are Cable's to play with.

Cable starts this match completely undetectable by his opponents, and will remain that way throughout the match.
Superman's enhanced senses and Eradicator being immune to Cable's TP beg to differ.

quote:
[*]Illusions

Related to the previous point, Cable can, and will, combine telekinetic and telepathic assaults with manipulations of his opponent's senses. Not only will Eradicator be clueless as to where Cable is, he'll sense dozens of false Cables, and pretty much whatever else I want - Kryptonians, X-Men, etc.
He can't. Case dismissed.

quote:
[*]Mindblasts/Psiblasts

An easy route to take, and a totally valid form of psychic attack that doesn't require engaging in prolonged mental combat/T-Vo.

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img...ble039167ie.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img...ble039175of.jpg

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/...ble10518fp2.jpg
Totally useless on a program. Eradicator isn't a living being/doesn't has the usual mind of a human being and psi-blasts on machines are totally useless.

quote:
[*]Suggestions

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img...ble011197du.jpg
"... a telepathic nudge" to turn Colossus' powers off

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j...ac/Scans/14.jpg
Does the same to Cannonball

Short burst suggestions like these are not matter of engaging in prolonged psychic combat, but a sucker punch during physical combat, and totally within Cable's ability to employ during this fight.
Now you just have to prove that he can do that to someone who is totally immune to his telepathy due to his lightspeed thought patterns and being a program.

quote:
Suggestions could include "Become tangible!", "Stop your attack", etc.
Nope.

quote:
[*]Telepathic Combat: A Hammer or a Scalpel

OK, time to address T-Vo:

http://i.imgur.com/Ws1vKn8.jpg

^This is Kem-L, an incarnation of the Eradicator that attacked Superman, and existed via a small piece of machine from the Fortress, and was defeated when that piece was destroyed
Not an incarnation of Eradicator, just the leftover essence of Krypton Man.




quote:
^This is Krypton Man, an incarnation of the Eradicator as an energy being. This version of the Eradicator came to be after Superman destroyed the Eradicator's programming and threw Eradicator into the sun.
That's actually an image of Superman. But no cigars for you. I already proved a part of Eradicator used T-vo. Its inane to think the fully powered Eradicator can't.
quote:

As an energy being, Krypton Man has a powerset unique when compared to every other version of Eradicator.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...rman_4.jpg.html

"My fusion with the sun's core resulted in a unique rebirth."

Krypton Man used powers Eradicator would never use again, and he never used powers that Eradicator would use in his later incarnations - including T-Vo.
Waah, waah. Repeat yourself a thousand times more. it wouldn't change one thing.

quote:
Superman beat Krypton Man by using a mystical crystal to disperse his remains in July 1991. Eradicator, as Kem-L, attacks Superman with T-Vo in a comic from the year 2000.
Nice job sherlock.

quote:
It's not my job to speculate comic-book reasons for why he could develop new powers - certainly, Eradicator does this in every new form he takes.
That's not a new form, not even close. But if you really think only that form of Eradicator could use T-vo, THINK AGAIN.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...man_11.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...man_12.jpg.html

Even a totally insane Eradicator can use T-vo. So, no. It wasn't a new power-up for Eradicator.

quote:
If I were speculating, I'd say that accessing Fortress computers and bonding/living through Fortress technology for a decade could all be significant factors in changing Eradicator's powerset.
That's just a speculation. I would like you to prove that.

quote:
Real talk, I know the reason that Krypton Man never used T-Vo is because he existed a whole decade before T-Vo was invented.
And his essence used T-vo when it was invented. So he can do it too.

quote:
It is fallacious and misleading to attribute powers to Krypton Man that he never showed. Eradicator is a character whose powerset has changed over the years and - just as if I had drafted Psylocke or Ultron - we can't draft a character and give them powers that they developed 10 years later, with a different appearance, body composition, name, etc.
A total strawman. Remain on topic.

Continued..........


__________________

Old Post Jun 21st, 2014 06:30 AM
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abhilegend
Reborn

Gender: Male
Location: Fortress of Solitude

Continued......

quote:
I can't stress enough how black and white this issue is, but because I've been in these debates before, I'm going to go ahead and argue what would happen if Krypton Man COULD use T-Vo in this battle:



I reject the ABC logic that Abhi employs here. I totally respect Superman's feat of defeating Dominus through T-Vo, but it's not Eradicator's feat, and it's faulty to apply it to him.
So essentially, Superman's feat does't apply to............ Superman? What a load of BS. If a telepath beats Xavier and Cable beats that telepath, Cable is automatically better than Xavier. Its just that simple.

quote:
Cable's whole character history is built around psi-combat, and his feats include, at one point or another, taking on Jean Grey, Xavier, Apocalypse, Stryfe, Mr. Sinister and X-Man in psi battle. Because his power levels vary, often these characters are above his pay grade (given that he usually sits around mid meta), and yet Cable frequently comes out looking good, because sticking it to people above him is who he is. Eradicator is also capable of looking good against opponents that are superior to him, and that is what happens in those scans.
Hahaha, Superman flat out says that he can't stop Eradicator in T-vo.

http://i.imgur.com/8oqKdj9.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/GsPT3DC.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Ws1vKn8.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/FGdiH4O.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ujkIdkz.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/KqOoBqn.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/dHOcOAe.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/CrblxTg.jpg

Eradicator even said he was an amateur. That's not talking to a superior. That's talking to an inferior.

quote:
It would be faulty to apply X-Man or Xavier's feats to God Cable, even if God Cable proved to be a superior psi, because they're not his feats, just as Eradicator never went up against Dominus or 'God's will itself'. I'm not going to lambast Superman's feats of mental power, I just want to emphasize that they are not Eradicator's feats, and, as we all know VERY well, taking it to Superman does not mean that you can beat the people that Superman has beaten.
Beating Superman in T-vo means exactly that. You're welcome to use X-man or Xavier's feats. Dominus shits on all of them.

quote:
He is, after all, Superman.

To emphasize my point, Superman uses T-Vo to casually fool Eradicator with an illusion, despite this version of Eradicator being a more developed, stronger form of the one that attacked Superman with T-Vo previously:

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...man_11.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...man_12.jpg.html
Because that's the mind of David Conner. Who had went insane after seeing Imperiex destroy galaxies and nearly killed.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...peed_1.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...peed_2.jpg.html

Context bro.

quote:
The mighty psi Eradicator, struck with 'super-hypnotism'. Cable should be fine in this match.
Not really. That's not Kem-L who was the persona behind Krypton Man. That's David Conner who was literally insane.

quote:
If Abhi would like to go feat for feat in psionic combat between Cable and Eradicator, we can do that- but he's already played his only card, and I have literally a character history spanning over 28 years to pull from, featuring a character whose shtick is psionic combat.
And who would get his ass kicked by that card alone.

quote:
And here he's at his most powerful.

Here Emma Frost w/Cerebra notes that psionic shields are barely holding, and says that Cable has ionized the entire planet with his telepathy, and is listening to every thought in the world.
And Dominus was sending information of a ****ING MULTIVERSE in Superman's mind.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/157...200007.jpg.html

That's so much above Emma or Cable, its not even funny. Superman could easily pwn him and he was no match for Eradicator in combat.

quote:
Here* Cable reveals that he knows the whole plan, meaning the psionic shields never did hold, and he simply allowed Emma Frost to believe it.

Here he casually reads Scott's mind, even though Emma shielded it with Cerebra.

*Deadpool references 'gravity generators' for Providence. It's revealed later that no such generators exist, and Cable has been levitating the island with telekinesis the entire time.
Means nothing to the level of psi Eradicator is packing.

quote:
Cable is, without a doubt, the superior psi with more numerous and superior feats. He can wield his telepathy with precision - using illusions, suggestions and well-timed psiblasts- or he can wield his telepathy like a hammer, and just smash Eradicator's mind to paste. Eradicator's ONLY feat demonstrating telepathic power is from a version of Eradicator that appears a decade later than the one Abhi drafted, and is about stalemating Superman with T-Vo, nothing more.
Bwahahahaha. Oh the delusions of grandeur. Cable can't even lock on Eradicator's thought patterns. Eradicator can walk up to him and shatter his mind and crush it and Cable wouldn't be able to do anything to him.

[/list]
[/list]
quote:
Conclusion: At best, Eradicator's mind isn't instantly shattered, and he's able to focus on fending off God Cable's telepathic attack long enough to feel Cable rip his body apart with telekinesis. Eradicator at no point in this match has a fighting chance against Cable, through telepathy or otherwise. He has no ability to detect Nathan, much less launch an assault.

In all likelihood though, this match ends the moment that Cable gets a grip on Krypton Man's mind. If not, it ends when his TK grips Krypton Man's body. [/B]


So, Eradicator shatters Cable's mind who has no chance at all to touch his mind or able to manipulate his energy form. While he is transmuting Cable into a statue, sunamped Superman punching him into paste, bombarded with energy blasts which can oneshot Superman.

Pick an option which you like more.


__________________

Old Post Jun 21st, 2014 06:31 AM
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abhilegend
Reborn

Gender: Male
Location: Fortress of Solitude

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Existere
I see we've reached that "Haha weak argument bro" part of the debate. Lol, k, 'bro'.
That was just the truth, nothing more.

quote:
Smurph Post 4: Hammer or Scalpel

I'm gonna focus on Cable's TK for a bit, and revisit telepathy in order to give full focus to his offensive options here.

I believe that telepathy alone is enough to win this battle, but I'm happy to show how either half of Cable's powerset can win this battlezone for me.
You sure are confident. I will give you that.

quote:
  • Telekinesis!

    Important stuff here:

    We've covered how Cable, prior to his fight with Surfer, performed miracles for over a week, including levitating Providence for 24/7 throughout this time period.

    We've covered how, during the fight with Surfer, Cable was performing atomic restructuring of everything they passed, including military ships filled with people.

    Other feats that I think are really important:



    BREAKING SURFER'S BOARD!!!!
Yeah, yeah, we know that already. As always, that's nothing impressive for top tiers.

Firelord

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums.../Finalsurf3.jpg

****ing terrax, lulz.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums...wallpaper-l.jpg

Morg.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums...urfer_super.jpg


So, its nothing more than a top tier attack. Not that it would do anything to Eradicator, since Cable can't directly apply that force to his intangible form.


And we've a sunamped Superman in our midst. Just imagine what he going to do with such puny attacks? Point and laugh methinks.
quote:
Mostly I think it's important to realize that Cable just has a ridiculous amount of power to bring to bear in this match.
So does Eradicator.

quote:
He can use this telekinetic might as a hammer or a scalpel. We can see that he is incredibly unlimited in his application of this power.
Eradicator is "more" unlimited than him.

quote:
I'm going to take that application one step further, and I think that step is really important for determining the outcome of this battle:

Abhi's Krypton Man is a man made of energy.
Energy form so powerful that full punches from Superman couldn't do a single thing to him.

Heck, a suckershot from Superman while Sun's EM field which just look is far beyond Cable's energy output was messing with his powers, couldn't even scratch him.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...man_23.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...man_24.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...man_25.jpg.html

And a suckerpunch from Superman>>>Cable's puny telekinesis.


quote:
Excellent smile

Abhi has stated that Krypton Man will be intangible from the start of this battle. To be clear, his 'intangible form' is a mass of energy
That wouldn't made his energy form's durability or cohesiveness any less. WTF is a mass of energy anyway?

quote:
Well, guess what Cable can manipulate with his telekinesis?
Not Eradicator's energy?

quote:
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img...directblast.jpg

In the above scan, Cable redirects an energy blast with his telekinesis (also a very good reaction speed feat, given that the blast was inches from it's target), and zigzags it around others to a target of his choosing.
So? Redirecting a ****ing laser is now a good feat now?

quote:
God Cable:
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img...ainmissiles.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img...inmissiles2.jpg

In the above scans, he contains and funnels the energy from 247 missiles and fairly casually at that. Note that, as always, he's still levitating Providence in these scans.
First thing first, it wasn't casually done or anything.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums.../cablebleed.jpg

He was bleeding and weakening from that funneling.

Cable was funneling the energy, not manipulating it. He was able to encase it in a TK field and funnel it. Such a tactic would not work here as Eradicator can easily break Cable's TK field with just such an attack which oneshots Superman.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...rman_5.jpg.html


quote:
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h...ightmaster7.jpg
Here, he control's Lightmaster's body as well, manipulating the photons as he chooses (for context, he uses Lightmaster to convert a virus into photons and transmit it around the world, to turn everybody pink... it's a lil weird)
What a load of BS. You're now straight up lying. That was done by a machine which was designed to convert Lightmaster into photons and send him to the optical lines of the world to turn it pink. As explained here, the FaÁade virus was meant to be delivered by the Deliverance Machine to optical lines.

http://i.imgur.com/svRVSad.jpg

Lightmaster was the fail-safe and Cable redirected him into THAT machine to send all over the world.

http://i.imgur.com/WrZjDgW.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/5tgejb9.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/8FZcDy2.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/KK9ydkts.jpg

Donít believe me? Hereís the official bio of Lightmaster saying the exact same thing.

(please log in to view the image)

Cable NEVER manipulated his energy form. In fact he needed to cover Lightmaster into debris to send him to the moon.

http://i.imgur.com/niqoUqt.jpg

Why do it if he could simply change Lightmaster's form? Huh? Shame on you smurph.

quote:
We know Cable's application of telekinesis is nearly unlimited. We know he can manipulate it incredibly finely (atomic restructuring feats) and with utter brute force (Surfer's board), and we can see clearly that he can affect MANY things at once, and among those, energy forms.
Well, he never manipulated energy with TK. But you've straight up lied about it. Shame on you smurph.

quote:
Krypton Man is going to start the battle as an intangible energy form. I am going to grab his form telekinetically, and sunder it- rip it apart with all the force needed to break Surfer's board and levitate Providence for a week, and send the different atoms hurtling across the battlefield.
He can't. Not if Sun's EM field coupled with Superman's sucker punch couldn't do it.

Superman says that being on Mercury is affecting Eradicatorís powers due to Sunís EM field.
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...man_23.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...man_24.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...man_25.jpg.html

And then Eradicator goes to the ****ing sun itself and is completely fine.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...man_13.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...man_28.jpg.html

Now Iím to believe that Cableís TK is more powerful than Sunís EM field when he canít even directly manipulate energy while the EM field was directly affecting Eradicator? I donít think so.

Not that Cable can do anything to Eradicator's energy form, who can create it with just a thought. Now lets see how powerful Eradicator's energy manipulation is.

Creates his body in instants.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...rman_4.jpg.html

Turns the ****ing SUN RED.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...nred_1.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...nred_2.jpg.html

Channels sun's core through himself.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...lsun_1.jpg.html

Simply put, Eradicator is a FAR, FAR better energy manipulator than Cable who can't even directly manipulate Energy other than funneling it or redirecting it.

quote:
That should win the battle on its own, but because I'm happily on a roll, let's move on to telepathy
You are just dreaming at this point. But lets rip your arguments apart again. Just because I'm in the mood today.


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Old Post Jun 21st, 2014 06:32 AM
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abhilegend
Reborn

Gender: Male
Location: Fortress of Solitude

Abhilegend post 5.

Now that we've seen everything Smurph could throw at Eradicator, true or false and I've countered each of them, here's a list of all the things.



Now that we've seen all Cable can do and negated everything, its time to go on offensive.



Conclusion: Sunamped Superman shatters whatever shield Cable can conjure, Eradicator eyeblasts the shit out of him, transmutes him into a statue and crushes his mind like an egg in T-vo.


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Old Post Jun 21st, 2014 07:33 AM
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abhilegend
Reborn

Gender: Male
Location: Fortress of Solitude

Unofficial post. Please discard this section.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by abhilegend
[*]And simultaneously Eradicator starts transmuting Cable. As you know, Cable has no defense against transmutation. In fact he was totally helpless against the Facade virus transmuting him.

http://i.imgur.com/IvqWOe0.jpg

And blocked his powers.

http://i.imgur.com/3ZvSvgX.jpg

As stated here.

(please log in to view the image)

Sure, Deadpool's HF saved him. But even Deadpool's HF can't save Cable from being turned into a statue.

Cable can atomize and restructure matter on a city-wide scale as shown against Surfer..................but Eradicator is a planetary level transmuter. Even the less powerful Eradicator construct could give and take away powers by transmuting human bodies.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...lastic.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...rman_6.jpg.html

Again.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...man_22.jpg.html

And about to tear the whole planet apart.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...hapart.jpg.html

This more powerful version can transmute the whole planet.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...lsun_1.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...lsun_2.jpg.html

On a minute level, create skyscrapers.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...tion_1.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...tion_2.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...tion_3.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...tion_4.jpg.html

Randomly transmuting human bodies into stone.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...tion_6.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...tion_5.jpg.html

And most impressively creating a kryptonian body from stone.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...lone_1.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...lone_2.jpg.html

So yeah, Eradicator transmutes Cable into a statue.

I somehow forgot there would be no offensive matter manipulation. I blame the hangover from last night.

embarrasment


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Old Post Jun 21st, 2014 12:49 PM
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Smurph
------

Gender: Male
Location:

We're getting into the real quote war part of the debate. I'm gonna try and keep arguments grouped thematically so our thoughts are easier to follow, sorry judges if I'm jumping around a bit.

Telepathy, T-Vo (Again!)


The telepathy debate is starting to become extremely circular, which is an indication to me that Abhi can't tackle any of the points raised. I've offered significant evidence and reason to doubt that Krypton Man ever had T-Vo, and Abhi has stuck his fingers in his ears and shouted "Nah!", probably because trying to sneak T-Vo in was Abhi's entire reason for drafting this character.

I've then pointed out that Eradicator's ONLY T-Vo feats are:

a) edging out Superman, who he calls an amateur
b) later getting fooled by Superman's illusion via T-Vo

The only way that a) becomes impressive is if we apply ABC logic, and I'm happy to point out how silly that is, later in this post. In the meantime, appreciate that Abhilegend defends ABC logic with fervor because it's the resting point of his entire mental defense.

I'm going to tackle the only new points that Abhi has raised in response, and then move on from the telepathy discussion. If Abhi is unwilling to either respond to my post, bring new evidence, or concede defeat, then I'm happy to let the judges decide from here.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by abhilegend
And that's where Cable's telepathy betrays him. You know, people whose thoughts are pure light can't be detected by Cable's telepathy.

(please log in to view the image)

Guess what and who is Eradicator?
Where in that scan does Cable say he can't detect Lightmaster's thoughts? He wasn't shielded and he was suckerpunched, and says "good move". That's all you've got here. Notably, he was still fine.

I want to bring up the second time Abhi references Cable's fight with Lightmaster, even though it's off the topic of telepathy and onto the topic of telekinesis vs. energy beings, so bear with me while I jump ahead a bit:

quote:
What a load of BS. You're now straight up lying. That was done by a machine which was designed to convert Lightmaster into photons and send him to the optical lines of the world to turn it pink. As explained here, the FaÁade virus was meant to be delivered by the Deliverance Machine to optical lines.

http://i.imgur.com/svRVSad.jpg

Lightmaster was the fail-safe and Cable redirected him into THAT machine to send all over the world.

Donít believe me? Hereís the official bio of Lightmaster saying the exact same thing.

(please log in to view the image)

Cable NEVER manipulated his energy form. In fact he needed to cover Lightmaster into debris to send him to the moon.

http://i.imgur.com/niqoUqt.jpg

Why do it if he could simply change Lightmaster's form? Huh? Shame on you smurph.

Well, he never manipulated energy with TK. But you've straight up lied about it. Shame on you smurph.


As this debate has progressed, my opponent has gone from giving me empty condescension to outright vitriol, and mostly I don't mind because it's a KMC Belt Battle (that he's losing), but it's really annoying to be called a liar.

Here's the whole fight:

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img28/5841/lansky.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img818/8033/lansky2.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img811/5803/lansky3.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img72/8145/lansky4.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img12/9646/lansky5.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img528/2407/lansky6.jpg

Here's what I said about it:

quote:
Here, he control's Lightmaster's body as well, manipulating the photons as he chooses (for context, he uses Lightmaster to convert a virus into photons and transmit it around the world, to turn everybody pink... it's a lil weird)


All that I said was that Cable manipulated Lightmaster's energy form (as Abhi pointed out, Lightmaster is an energy form whose 'mental patters have been converted to pure light!'), and he did.

In the last scan, the same one I provided earlier, Lightmaster can't control his movement, and Cable, with a smile, telekinetically directs him into the machine.

Then I provided context to attempt to explain that it was Cable directing him into the machine, because I was worried that it was otherwise unclear what was going on. I also thought that Cable turning the world pink was lolz. Judges, I am sorry if this was not clear, or if it seemed that I was implying anything more than Cable's ability to move Lightmaster's energy form against his will.

Abhilegend has taken my statement to indicate that Cable controlled Lightmaster's ability to transmit the virus into photons, and send it around the world, and then called me a liar.

I don't care if Cable did that, or could do that, because it doesn't help my case. The only thing I need to prove is that Cable can control Lightmaster's body with telekinesis, and that Lightmaster takes an energy form when he travels as photons at lightspeed. If I can prove that - and I did - then I can prove that Cable can affect Krypton Man with telekinesis because Krypton Man is also an energy form.

Incidentally, I'm happy that Abhi has both conceded that Lightmaster is an energy form rather unequivocally

quote:
No he can't. He has never done it and one time he encountered an energy being, he failed miserably


Because it makes my end of the debate a lot easier smile

Ok, now let's get back to Lightmaster and telepathy.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by abhilegend
And that's where Cable's telepathy betrays him. You know, people whose thoughts are pure light can't be detected by Cable's telepathy.

(please log in to view the image)


Does anybody remember when Storm fans would say that she was resistant or immune to telepathy because she had lightning in her brain?

That's what you sound like right now.

Nowhere in the scan does it say that Cable can't detect his thoughts. And Abhi, I KNOW you've read the whole right (see: referring to it, calling me a liar), so I also know that you are aware that Cable tricked Lightmaster into attacking him so he could redirect Lightmaster into turning the world pink. We both know that Cable was aware of Lightmaster the entire time, and knew all along that he was a member of the One World Church.

Judges, you should also know this, because Abhi and I have both posted the scans to prove it. Here it is again:

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img12/9646/lansky5.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img528/2407/lansky6.jpg

So, there is no indication that Cable could not enter his mind and, in fact, every indication that Cable knew all along Lightmaster's every move - note how he can track him psionically, knowing even that Lightmaster is going to arrive slightly earlier than predicted:

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img72/8145/lansky4.jpg

On an aside, it's hilarious that I get called a liar after Abhi deliberately provides one scan in order to misrepresent the exact same fight. Battlezones bring out an ugliness I guess.

Old Post Jun 21st, 2014 11:22 PM
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Smurph
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Location:

Alright, other stuff that Abhi said about telepathy:

quote:
Haha, that's some reaching right there. Eradicator has electronic senses and is clearly a program. Just because he has telepathy doesn't means he is suddenly lacking in his senses.


FFS. Krypton Man doesn't have electronic senses, because he doesn't have electronics. He doesn't even have programming, he's just a being with energy that bonded with that energy of the sun after his programming and circuitry was destroyed:

quote:


So, no electronic senses. He's an energy being with telepathy, and perhaps weird, esoteric energy sense (who knows, that's your case to make, I don't know that he's ever displayed anything beyond sight and hearing), but he definitely has telepathy, and he definitely has a mind, and Cable can definitely fool that mind.

Hilariously, when he later DOES get electronic senses and bonds with the Fortress and has experience using T-Vo, Superman then casually fools him with a T-Vo illusion... so your whole argument is a crock anyways.

While I'm on the topic: that scan above is NOT proof that Krypton Man can create a body in instants. Abhi, do you think the judges and I are illiterate?

"Understand, Kal-El, that your sun's intense heat did melt my shell and circuitry.

Yet the essence of my energies continued to exist. After a time my proficiency in controlling my nebulous energies increased-- and my fusion with the sun's core resulted in a unique rebirth"


You keep using that scan as if it will help you, when all it has done is proven:

a) Krypton Man is unique when compared to the other Eradicators, missing components (circuitry, programming), possessing others (suns energy)
b) Krypton Man took time to put his body together

Tell me Abhi, do you know how long that process took? At best the scan might be proof that when Cable shatters Krypton Man and sends his essence/atoms/whatever flying across the battlefield, he may eventually put himself back together... but we have no proof that it would be in instants, which means a forum win for Cable.

Although, knowing that the Fortress robots had to reassemble Eradicator after Krypton Man's energy body was dispersed is probably proof enough that you are, once again, full of it.

quote:
Totally useless on a program. Eradicator isn't a living being/doesn't has the usual mind of a human being and psi-blasts on machines are totally useless.


a) Krypton Man has no circuitry or programming; not a machine
b) Cassandra Nova and Shadow King (lacking real bodies), Apocalypse (bonded with technology) and the whole Authority team (using radio telepathy) all lead me to believe that you don't need a human brain to have a mind capable of telepathy, telepathic combat or getting f*cking psiblasted.
c) Proof of anything that you're saying?
d) Krypton Man HAS telepathy. Stop telling me his mind can't be detected or he's immune to telepathic attack, he has actual telepathy

quote:
That's not a new form, not even close. But if you really think only that form of Eradicator could use T-vo, THINK AGAIN.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...man_11.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/167...man_12.jpg.html
You just posted an image of Superman using super-hypnosis on Eradicator. Once again:

a) Not Krypton Man
b) A decade after Krypton Man
c) Further proof that Eradicator is not > Superman with T-Vo (but we'll get to that in a moment)

quote:
That's just a speculation. I would like you to prove that.
Onus of proof is on you, my friend, to show that Krypton Man ever used T-Vo. No, a part of the Eradicator essence that lived in Fortress computers for a decade and then attacked Superman via fortress machinery is not Krypton Man.

Superman, Krypton Man, other Eradicator(s) and the use of ABC logic


quote: (post)
Originally posted by abhilegend
Continued......

So essentially, Superman's feat does't apply to............ Superman? What a load of BS. If a telepath beats Xavier and Cable beats that telepath, Cable is automatically better than Xavier. Its just that simple.


Mhm.

Did you know that Spider-Man beat Firelord once? And Vulture has definitely taken it to Spider-Man at least once.

I guess I'll draft Vulture for my next mid-herald character.

Ooh, here's another one:

Dominus is supposed to be a multiversal mind right? But that multiversal mind lost to Superman with T-Vo, and I know Superman is a total amateur because Eradicator, a mid-herald character made Superman look bad... so I think any mid herald could outwill Dominus.

And God's will. That too.

Seriously though: ABC logic is all about spinning high feats against low feats to try and make one character look far superior without any other proof to support that conclusion. Superman beat Dominus and God's will with T-Vo (high feat), then seriously struggled against Eradicator with T-Vo (low feat) so therefore Eradicator could chump Spectre.

Right!?

Meanwhile, let's toss out that Eradicator got chumped by Superman's T-Vo illusion, let's forget that he has zero other T-Vo feats to reference, and that his only other telepathic feats at all include connecting telepathically with Superman and mindwiping some no-name feeb civilian.

(Although, at least those last two feats belong to the Eradicator that you drafted, and not an Eradicator from the future with a different body, name and powerset).


quote:
Eradicator even said he was an amateur. That's not talking to a superior. That's talking to an inferior.
You heard it here first, folks. Spectre is fodder for amateur telepaths.

quote:
Beating Superman in T-vo means exactly that. You're welcome to use X-man or Xavier's feats. Dominus shits on all of them.
But that's just it, you don't get to use Dominus' feats, just like I don't get X-Man's.

Cable ionized a planet telepathically. The weight of Cable's mind made Emma believe her shields were barely holding up, despite the fact that she had cerebra and Cable was directing zero attention towards the X-Men... and when Cable wanted to, he pierced those shields with ease. He filtered through the thoughts of the entire world, and manipulated their emotions and pain and responded to thoughts of murder, impending traffic accidents and would-be terrorist attacks.

Those are my feats of power. Now I can point to Cable, with almost no telepathic power, using that power to put down Cannonball, Colossus and others, because it indicates precision and versatility. I can point to him teaching the finer points of psi combat to a young Nate Grey, and standing up against Jean, Xavier and others, because we get a context for combat ability.

Really, that other stuff is just icing on the cake though. I can ultimately just say: Cable's huge, Emma Frost-breaking telepathic mind brings all its psi-weight to bear on Krypton Man's noggin.

We have no feat of Krypton Man channelling Dominus' multiversal information, because he didn't do it. Clark did, and Krypton Man, no matter how much you would like Abhi, doesn't get Clark's feats.

So Krypton Man's mind gets flattened.

Old Post Jun 21st, 2014 11:27 PM
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