Before I start, disclaimer: I recently had my laptop stolen and I'm doing the bulk of my work from an iPad, which works surprisingly well. I'm hoping this will have zero bearing on the match, but if my image links aren't working (or are the mobile, hard-to-read version of the normal imageshack links) lemme know and I'll work around it. If you can see the same images I can, I am confident that it will be obvious how badly Cable rocks his competition in this match.
Anyways, let's get this party started.
I'm the defending champ, representing Cable in his God-like messiah persona straight from the initial 10 issues of 'Cable and Deadpool'. Cable is the same character as he always has been, just much more powerful, and so any feats of Cable's prior to his power up are valid as well, provided that he has the same equipment.
Cable's powers are vastly heightened here in comparison to his average. In his short appearance, God-like Cable accomplished the following messiah feats:
Rerouted water to flood half the Sahara
Threw all the loggers out of the Amazon rainforest
Straightened the leaning tower of Pisa (lol)
Stopped the white blood cell count from deteriorating in every AIDS victim in Africa
Stopped a daily average of 14 individual acts of terrorism, 11 hundred attempted murders, 7 thousand car accidents
Soothed the pain of every single person on the planet dying of any kind of disease
For context, while I don't believe any comics have given an exact number, it is clear that Cable was in this messiah form for over a week (and I think quite a bit over a week, but a week is enough to make my point).
The last three bullets are all context sensitive, and so now we know the bare minimum of the scope and depth of Cable's 'miracles'.
Knowing that, I present three points that I will be basing much of my argumentation on for this debate:
Cable is capable of constant telepathy on a global scale. This is an obvious necessity to soothe the entire world of pain. In later posts, I can give evidence to the actual power that Cable carries in his noggin, but it's important to note that he is both an incredibly powerful and skilled telepath, even in passive feats such as these.
b) Cable is capable of multitasking on a level nearly unheard of even among KMC herald debates. The feats speak for themselves here, but Cable's ability to multitask is one of his biggest strengths in a KMC tourney match where he needs to provide simultaneous defence and offence.
c) God-like Cable has never been seen in a fight at full strength. He went up against Silver Surfer, fought across oceans, broke Surfer's board, lost. Fair enough, it's the Silver freaking Surfer... but, for what weight it holds, and I believe it holds quite a bit in this match: Cable wasn't rested, Cable had been performing miracles for days, and Cable is not in danger of burning out, as he was in that fight.
With those feats spoken for, I feel I've established character and I'm ready to jump into the match itself.
According to Belt Rules, Cable is informed 5 minutes prior to the match who he is facing - only names, and Nick Fury's briefing- and allowed some bare minimum of actions prior to the match. I'm writing this because I feel like it's somewhat unclear what's allowed and what's not with prep, so I'm going to walk through this:
As per previous matches, Cable is going to spend his 5 minutes erecting a super tough shield.
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Unlike that scan, where a shield was created in response to gunfire, Cable is going to spend his whole 5 minutes making his shield and meditating.
Cable will prepare to make himself telepathically invisible to attackers as soon as the match begins. Given that Cable's telepathy is globe-spanning, there should be no time between the beginning of the match and his telepathic disappearance. http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img.../invisibleo.jpg
With those two defensive measures taken, let the battle begin.
First, two items that I believe will dictate how this match will be viewed:
As I said in the match against Wonder Woman, if I were debating against Cable, one of my first lines of argument would be to claim that his reflexes were unable to deal with an assault from my character.
Well, setting aside the telekinetic shield and telepathic invisibility, even if a blitz were launched against Cable's God-like form, we can see that he is more than capable of dealing with it:
Not only is Cable capable of responding to the blitz - while still levitating Providence -, he then speaks to how Surfer and he are sundering the environment around them at the atomic level, and repairing it immediately.
I submit that if Cable is capable of not only protecting himself from a blitz from Surfer, but also atomically restructuring their environment as soon as it is damaged, in a fight that takes them from Providence and across the pacific, then he is capable of the thinking speed required to summon basic defences against his opponents in this fight.
This is the second big tenant that I see dictating this match.
Before I start: I really, really don't believe that Abhi's attempts to make a Super-clone are going to work, for mostly logistical, but also rules-based reasons, but I'm going to get to that later. For now, let's ignore the looming question of whether or not Cable is facing one enemy or two, and focus on this scan:
Abhi's Krypton Man, vs. Superman at the time that Krypton Man would have known him (and therefore, should a clone of Superman be made, it would be made in the image of the Superman in that scan).
"You -- you can 'hear' my thoughts?"
"Certainly. Did you forget we were once linked telepathically?"
This will be child's play. Not only does this Superman show zero forms of telepathic defence, Krypton Man himself has telepathy, which, by both definition and comic book tradition*, outlaws him from being immune to telepathy.
*Sage and Emma Frost are both examples of comic book characters who need to turn their telepathy off in order to establish an immunity to outside telepathy.
The previous two times that I've had to prove that Cable is the top mid herald character, I've been up against Wonder Woman and later Magneto, both opponents with established telepathic immunity of a sort. Abhi has drafted no such immunity, and I am happy to begin and end this match by pointing that out.
Even if telepathic defences exist - and I assume Abhi is going to say that they do, because he has no other route here beyond admitting my victory -, it's worth spending time stating that Eradicator is not up against a junior telepath here.
Cable's telepathy was truly God-like. I've shown that he was capable of sifting through the thoughts of the world, constantly soothing pain and preventing terrorism, murder and traffic accidents globally.
Talking actual telepathic might though, let's use a direct comparison:
Emma Frost is probably Marvel Earth's premier telepath, so long as Jean is dead and Xavier is out of combat.
When Emma and X-Men flew near the outer border of Providence. Emma was hooked up to the on-board Cerebra, boosting her telepathy by the power of 10. They ask if she's holding up, she replies that her psychic shields are barely holding, and notes that Cable has telepathically ionized the Earth's atmosphere.
So, the weight of Cable's mind is such that while he's performing his godly duties - soothing pain, helping citizens with their taxes -, Emma Frost can barely hold up a psychic shield despite the fact that he has focused utterly zero attention on her, and, on top of it all, his brain powerz have telepathically ionized the atmosphere. Now, that's comic book lingo, and has no quantitative value in this match, but relatively I think we can say
Cable's telepathy > Eradicator's telepathy, and unproven defences.
The match starts.
Cable instantly becomes telepathically invisible. He has a pre-established telekinetic shield that he will constantly repair and reinforce throughout the battle.
Cable mindphucks the hell out of his opponents. IF Abhi is at all successful in creating a Super-clone here (which, again I stress, I sincerely doubt and will speak to later), it will only serve to be detrimental when Cable assumes control of the clone's mind and turns a 1 vs. 2 match into 2 vs. 1.
Later, I'll address Cable's telekinesis, esoteric powers, and the numerous holes in my opponent's prep.
You are faced with another incredibly powerful and capable of multitasking opponent in Eradicator smurph. Just to reference how powerful Eradicator was, he was turning Earth's sun red, transmuting entire planet and beating the shit out of Superman at the same time. That's just an enormous leve of power.
And Superman is ****ing Superman. You're facing a sun amped Superman here. Good luck to you.
Ah, let's rock.
Making a shield to stop a sun amped Superman? Bad choice bro. Lets see how much a top Green Lantern's shield holds against Superman.
We're not talking about slow ass Silver Surfer here, who has nearly no combat speed feats. We're talking about Superman, the guy who can race ****ing Flash to a near standstill and make another Flash look like a statue. And since its an amped Superman, I get all the feats he has.
Ah, yes. Superman and Eradicator were telepathically linked and that link is what he's talking about.
And you got trapped in your own trap. I'll point that out shortly.
Its not Superman Cable is against which if I start using his TP resisting feats would fry Cable's mind. Its eradicator's mind in Superman's body he's up against.
I object milord. Lets look another way. You know the mysterious power up Superman got in 90's? Yeah, the astral combat technique known as T-vo. Yeah, the same technique which allowed him to to first stalemate Dominus.
Now we've established Superman would push Cable's shit in astral combat using T-vo, right? Well. Superman was totally helpless against a fraction of Krypton Man's persona embedded in Fortress which Lois accidentally took to their apartment.
So a minute fraction of Krypton Man overpowered Superman in astral combat while Superman can take down a multiversal telepath and defy God's will itself. Yeah, Cable and Emma Frost can go **** themselves.
Eradicator would see him perfectly. An amped Superman would oneshot any field he can create.
Cable tries that, Eradicator crushes his mind like a grape and shoves his God like head up his God like ass.
Yeah, I'm not even started here and the match already looks finished. Shame.
Looks like it's time to bust some myths. *knuckle cracking*
Smurph Post 2
In this post, I'm going to tackle the two very sketchy legs that Abhi stands on: Creating a Super-clone, and replicating T-vo. I believe that both tactics are very misleading and, upon scrutiny, not viable, but I'll let the judges ultimately decide that.
Here's how I see it:
Myth 1: Eradicator can clone and/or duplicate Superman in prep
Abhi wants to create a separate, independently acting body during prep, replicating Sundipped Superman, using the above scans as evidence.
I don't believe he CAN create a clone, because I think he lacks two key components. I think even if he WERE able to create a clone, it would in no way be similar to Superman, and finally, if he were able to pull off his plan, I would argue that he would violate battlezone rules.
Problem by problem then:
First missing component: A separate entity
When Eradicator made the Superman-like body, he was attempting to create a body for himself to inhabit.
Eradicator has not willfully made a second body and occupied both of them. To be clear, in his last post, Abhi says:
It's clear that Abhi has brought one character into the battle (Eradicator), has attempted to create a second body (Superclone), and expects Eradicator to occupy both.
Only... he's never done that.
Abhi claimed that he has:
But what we see there is a version of the Eradicator that has merged with Dr. David Conner, which then merges with a version of the Eradicator that has merged with the fortress of solitude.
"Following Superman's return, the Eradicator's apparently dead body is examined at S.T.A.R. Labs, and merged with Dr. David Connor, currently dying of a fatal disease. The merged Eradicator joins the Outsiders, and occasionally teams up with Superman.
The original Eradicator program is revealed to still exist in the Fortress of Solitude's computers and, following the destruction of the Fortress in Superman's battle with Dominus, the Eradicator program takes the form of Kem-L, and again attempted to brainwash Superman. The David Connor Eradicator realizes that the program is still active, and, when the Fortress Eradicator attempts to merge with the Brainiac-13 program to use the futuristic technology to recreate Krypton once again, merges with the remains of the Fortress to control it and take it from Earth."
What Abhi would LIKE us to believe is that Eradicator can willfully clone himself in separate bodies, not unlike The Engineer or Doctor Manhattan. Unfortunately for Abhi, Eradicator has never done this. In the above example, Eradicator's body merged with a human being, and separate programming merged with the Fortress computers, before they could exist in separate bodies. Not exactly what we were sold in Abhi's prep.
In one example, Eradicator creates a body and then inhabits it. In another, Eradicator's programming is split and already merged with separate entities. Without a clear separate entity to control the body, I'm unwilling to believe that Abhi's character can willfully duplicate it's programming and inhabit the husk of a body that it creates with matter manipulation.
Second missing component: Solar energy
When Eradicator made a Superman body to inhabit, he didn't do it on his own. As explained in each of these scans:
"My energies joined with those stored in the body"
I submit that Eradicator did not perform this feat under his own power, but rather could ONLY do it by combining his energies with Superman's and, by his own admission, could not have made a separate body without them. If it wasn't for thirty years of stored energy, Eradicator would still just be an energy ghost. He doesn't have access to said energies here.
OK, so we know Abhi is missing both 30 years of stored energy and a separate mind to occupy or merge with his husk creation. I think that alone should be enough to debunk this, but I'm willing to take the analysis further: even if Eradicator could make a separate body, it wouldn't be Superman's.
The clone was imperfect
In the example where Eradicator manipulated Superman's bio energies, created a body and inhabited it, (AKA the example that Abhi uses to claim Eradicator can successfully create a clone), the clone was imperfect.
"But my new body was not perfect. My eyes were light-sensitive... I could no longer directly channel the power of the sun."
Remember how Abhi wants a sundipped Superman?
No Superman memories = no Superman
You can't have it both ways, Abhi. You've made it clear this isn't Superman, which means we're very explicitly NOT talking about Superman, and you get none of the feats Superman has.
I threw all the speed feats together for this point, but it applies to punching, etc. Anything learned, this guy doesn't have.
FINAL SUPERCLONE PROBLEM: If Abhi pulled it off, it would be illegal.
If Abhi could create a clone Kryptonian body, duplicate his programming, inhabit it... it would be a plain rule violation. Even if the second body has separate powers, it's surely in the spirit of the rule that "splitting off his programming to occupy a second Superman-like body" is meant to be disallowed.
Myth 1 Recap:
Abhi would like to create a clone of Superman and sundip him. I don't believe he can because he is missing both a mind to occupy that body and 30 years of solar energy to make it powerful. This is further complicated because the only clone that Eradicator has created was an imperfect copy that could not absorb solar radiation (and therefore not be sundipped) and finally, would not have Superman's memories, which means Abhi certainly does not get any of Kal's feats.
Finally, if it all were successful, I would argue it illegal.
Eradicator, as Krypton Man, was an energy being (hence Abhi's use of intangibility). This is clearly referenced on the Wikipedia article, and backed up by Abhi's own scans.
This Eradicator never demonstrated T-vo. Abhi has referenced Superman's fight with Dominus to illustrate Eradicator's telepathic superiority and just how powerful that makes him, but Dominus didn't come in to play until Action Comics 747... nearly 100 comics after Action Comics 642, when Eradicator was Krypton Man, messing around with the Earth's sun.
In that time, Eradicator went through two major character changes.
Krypton Man Eradicator clearly had a different powerset. He demonstrates telepathy in this power set, using illusions on Superman and mindwiping some noob, but never demonstrated t-vo, until multiple iterations and identity changes later, including having his mind reformed twice, his body merged with other beings twice, and his powerset changing drastically each time.
Notably, this version of Eradicator boasts intangibility, while the others do not. I submit that Krypton Man does not have t-vo, and certainly cannot use t-vo while intangible, because he's never done that before, because he's never had both powers at once.
T-vo, by Abhi's scans, requires the entire concentration of it's user. Note how Superman could barely use heat vision and needed Lois to save the day, because he was so absorbed in the mental battle.
Cable, meanwhile, can do thousands of separate telekinetic and telepathic actions at once, and it will be utterly simple for him to fend off any telepathic intrusion while smashing Eradicator's not-so-intangible body to bits and pieces with his telekinesis.
OK guys, I gotta run, but later I'll get to Cable's TK, and other powers he has on board (Deadpool's healing factor, anyone?)
It would be utterly laughable to suggest that if a fully coherent Eradicator creates a kryptonian body, it would be defective. There is nobody who knows more than eradicator about Kryptonian physiology.
Sunamped Superman. Sundipped Superman would be too much.
Then its good that Eradicator has all the memories of Superman stored in it? When it mindlinked Cleric and Superman. it stored all the memories and transferred it to Cleric.
I don't think Duplication means you can't create another construct. I'm not duplicating Eradicator's powers after all, I'm creating a construct with separate powers with non-offensive matter manipulation. I have broken no rules.
Debunked all of that. Honestly, your arguments were fairly weak.
I don't. Its perfectly legal. I haven't duplicated powers, I have used non-offensive matter manipulation and there is no rule broken.
I'm sorry but WTF?
And the energy of that being was lived in Fortress of Solitude. But once again lulz @ using wikipedia.
Eradicator's leftover persona used T-vo. If a minute fragment of Eradicator can use T-vo, Eradicator can use it pretty well himself.
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Only 98.73% of Eradicator's own essence was retrieved from Fortress which had absorbed it after Superman destroyed it. The rest lived on in the fortress and that's how it manifested itself in Clark's apartment when Lois brought a fragment of it.
In the above scan, Cable redirects an energy blast with his telekinesis (also a very good reaction speed feat, given that the blast was inches from it's target), and zigzags it around others to a target of his choosing.
In the above scans, he contains and funnels the energy from 247 missiles and fairly casually at that. Note that, as always, he's still levitating Providence in these scans.
Here, he control's Lightmaster's body as well, manipulating the photons as he chooses (for context, he uses Lightmaster to convert a virus into photons and transmit it around the world, to turn everybody pink... it's a lil weird)
We know Cable's application of telekinesis is nearly unlimited. We know he can manipulate it incredibly finely (atomic restructuring feats) and with utter brute force (Surfer's board), and we can see clearly that he can affect MANY things at once, and among those, energy forms.
Krypton Man is going to start the battle as an intangible energy form. I am going to grab his form telekinetically, and sunder it- rip it apart with all the force needed to break Surfer's board and levitate Providence for a week, and send the different atoms hurtling across the battlefield.
That should win the battle on its own, but because I'm happily on a roll, let's move on to telepathy
I really, really see T-Vo as a non-issue, given that Abhi has drafted a character with an energy body, intangibility and telepathy; a different power set than any other Eradicator, and this incarnation of Eradicator never used T-Vo.
I'll address Abhi's protests regarding this in a moment. First, I'm going to cover telepathy and how it impacts this battle, both in comparison to T-Vo and in the many forms of attack and defence that telepathy encompasses that have nothing at all to do with T-Vo.
Well... no. In the scans, it's clear that Cable's telepathic invisibility didn't work because he was technologically detected... but this is where technology betrays us.
The Eradicator has telepathy. A basic security camera does not. A security camera could have detected Cable in those scans because he was telepathically invisible; things that don't have a mind cannot be fooled, security cameras included.
By virtue of having telepathy, we know Eradicator can be fooled. It doesn't matter how 'state of the art' his programming is, Cable can control what visual/aural/etc input reaches the central mind/programming/whatever the analogy at hand is.
Every acting component of this battle has a mind, potential constructs included. All minds are Cable's to play with.
Cable starts this match completely undetectable by his opponents, and will remain that way throughout the match.
Related to the previous point, Cable can, and will, combine telekinetic and telepathic assaults with manipulations of his opponent's senses. Not only will Eradicator be clueless as to where Cable is, he'll sense dozens of false Cables, and pretty much whatever else I want - Kryptonians, X-Men, etc.
An easy route to take, and a totally valid form of psychic attack that doesn't require engaging in prolonged mental combat/T-Vo.
^This is Kem-L, an incarnation of the Eradicator that attacked Superman, and existed via a small piece of machine from the Fortress, and was defeated when that piece was destroyed
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^This is Krypton Man, an incarnation of the Eradicator as an energy being. This version of the Eradicator came to be after Superman destroyed the Eradicator's programming and threw Eradicator into the sun.
As an energy being, Krypton Man has a powerset unique when compared to every other version of Eradicator.
"My fusion with the sun's core resulted in a unique rebirth."
Krypton Man used powers Eradicator would never use again, and he never used powers that Eradicator would use in his later incarnations - including T-Vo.
Superman beat Krypton Man by using a mystical crystal to disperse his remains in July 1991. Eradicator, as Kem-L, attacks Superman with T-Vo in a comic from the year 2000.
It's not my job to speculate comic-book reasons for why he could develop new powers - certainly, Eradicator does this in every new form he takes.
If I were speculating, I'd say that accessing Fortress computers and bonding/living through Fortress technology for a decade could all be significant factors in changing Eradicator's powerset.
Real talk, I know the reason that Krypton Man never used T-Vo is because he existed a whole decade before T-Vo was invented.
It is fallacious and misleading to attribute powers to Krypton Man that he never showed. Eradicator is a character whose powerset has changed over the years and - just as if I had drafted Psylocke or Ultron - we can't draft a character and give them powers that they developed 10 years later, with a different appearance, body composition, name, etc.
I can't stress enough how black and white this issue is, but because I've been in these debates before, I'm going to go ahead and argue what would happen if Krypton Man COULD use T-Vo in this battle:
I reject the ABC logic that Abhi employs here. I totally respect Superman's feat of defeating Dominus through T-Vo, but it's not Eradicator's feat, and it's faulty to apply it to him.
Cable's whole character history is built around psi-combat, and his feats include, at one point or another, taking on Jean Grey, Xavier, Apocalypse, Stryfe, Mr. Sinister and X-Man in psi battle. Because his power levels vary, often these characters are above his pay grade (given that he usually sits around mid meta), and yet Cable frequently comes out looking good, because sticking it to people above him is who he is. Eradicator is also capable of looking good against opponents that are superior to him, and that is what happens in those scans.
It would be faulty to apply X-Man or Xavier's feats to God Cable, even if God Cable proved to be a superior psi, because they're not his feats, just as Eradicator never went up against Dominus or 'God's will itself'. I'm not going to lambast Superman's feats of mental power, I just want to emphasize that they are not Eradicator's feats, and, as we all know VERY well, taking it to Superman does not mean that you can beat the people that Superman has beaten.
He is, after all, Superman.
To emphasize my point, Superman uses T-Vo to casually fool Eradicator with an illusion, despite this version of Eradicator being a more developed, stronger form of the one that attacked Superman with T-Vo previously:
The mighty psi Eradicator, struck with 'super-hypnotism'. Cable should be fine in this match.
If Abhi would like to go feat for feat in psionic combat between Cable and Eradicator, we can do that- but he's already played his only card, and I have literally a character history spanning over 28 years to pull from, featuring a character whose shtick is psionic combat.
And here he's at his most powerful.
Here Emma Frost w/Cerebra notes that psionic shields are barely holding, and says that Cable has ionized the entire planet with his telepathy, and is listening to every thought in the world.
Here* Cable reveals that he knows the whole plan, meaning the psionic shields never did hold, and he simply allowed Emma Frost to believe it.
Here he casually reads Scott's mind, even though Emma shielded it with Cerebra.
*Deadpool references 'gravity generators' for Providence. It's revealed later that no such generators exist, and Cable has been levitating the island with telekinesis the entire time.
Cable is, without a doubt, the superior psi with more numerous and superior feats. He can wield his telepathy with precision - using illusions, suggestions and well-timed psiblasts- or he can wield his telepathy like a hammer, and just smash Eradicator's mind to paste. Eradicator's ONLY feat demonstrating telepathic power is from a version of Eradicator that appears a decade later than the one Abhi drafted, and is about stalemating Superman with T-Vo, nothing more.
Conclusion: At best, Eradicator's mind isn't instantly shattered, and he's able to focus on fending off God Cable's telepathic attack long enough to feel Cable rip his body apart with telekinesis. Eradicator at no point in this match has a fighting chance against Cable, through telepathy or otherwise. He has no ability to detect Nathan, much less launch an assault.
In all likelihood though, this match ends the moment that Cable gets a grip on Krypton Man's mind. If not, it ends when his TK grips Krypton Man's body.
Totally wrong. Repeating yourself doesn't makes you right.
And that's where Cable's telepathy betrays him. You know, people whose thoughts are pure light can't be detected by Cable's telepathy.
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Guess what and who is Eradicator?
Haha, that's some reaching right there. Eradicator has electronic senses and is clearly a program. Just because he has telepathy doesn't means he is suddenly lacking in his senses. And Cable's TP can't lock on energy beings anyway.
No he can't. He has never done it and one time he encountered an energy being, he failed miserably.
Superman's enhanced senses and Eradicator being immune to Cable's TP beg to differ.
He can't. Case dismissed.
Totally useless on a program. Eradicator isn't a living being/doesn't has the usual mind of a human being and psi-blasts on machines are totally useless.
Now you just have to prove that he can do that to someone who is totally immune to his telepathy due to his lightspeed thought patterns and being a program.
Not an incarnation of Eradicator, just the leftover essence of Krypton Man.
That's actually an image of Superman. But no cigars for you. I already proved a part of Eradicator used T-vo. Its inane to think the fully powered Eradicator can't.
Waah, waah. Repeat yourself a thousand times more. it wouldn't change one thing.
Nice job sherlock.
That's not a new form, not even close. But if you really think only that form of Eradicator could use T-vo, THINK AGAIN.
So essentially, Superman's feat does't apply to............ Superman? What a load of BS. If a telepath beats Xavier and Cable beats that telepath, Cable is automatically better than Xavier. Its just that simple.
Hahaha, Superman flat out says that he can't stop Eradicator in T-vo.
That's so much above Emma or Cable, its not even funny. Superman could easily pwn him and he was no match for Eradicator in combat.
Means nothing to the level of psi Eradicator is packing.
Bwahahahaha. Oh the delusions of grandeur. Cable can't even lock on Eradicator's thought patterns. Eradicator can walk up to him and shatter his mind and crush it and Cable wouldn't be able to do anything to him.
So, Eradicator shatters Cable's mind who has no chance at all to touch his mind or able to manipulate his energy form. While he is transmuting Cable into a statue, sunamped Superman punching him into paste, bombarded with energy blasts which can oneshot Superman.
He was bleeding and weakening from that funneling.
Cable was funneling the energy, not manipulating it. He was able to encase it in a TK field and funnel it. Such a tactic would not work here as Eradicator can easily break Cable's TK field with just such an attack which oneshots Superman.
What a load of BS. You're now straight up lying. That was done by a machine which was designed to convert Lightmaster into photons and send him to the optical lines of the world to turn it pink. As explained here, the FaÁade virus was meant to be delivered by the Deliverance Machine to optical lines.
Cable's TK isn't going to do anything to Eradicator since he is intangible and Cable never showed any capability to manipulate energy. He could redirect energy blasts and that's it. Smurph actually lied about Cable manipulating photons or Lightmaster.
What a load of BS. You're now straight up lying. That was done by a machine which was designed to convert Lightmaster into photons and send him to the optical lines of the world to turn it pink. As explained here, the FaÁade virus was meant to be delivered by the Deliverance Machine to optical lines.
Sure, Deadpool's HF saved him. But even Deadpool's HF can't save Cable from being turned into a statue.
Cable can atomize and restructure matter on a city-wide scale as shown against Surfer..................but Eradicator is a planetary level transmuter. Even the less powerful Eradicator construct could give and take away powers by transmuting human bodies.
We're getting into the real quote war part of the debate. I'm gonna try and keep arguments grouped thematically so our thoughts are easier to follow, sorry judges if I'm jumping around a bit.
Telepathy, T-Vo (Again!)
The telepathy debate is starting to become extremely circular, which is an indication to me that Abhi can't tackle any of the points raised. I've offered significant evidence and reason to doubt that Krypton Man ever had T-Vo, and Abhi has stuck his fingers in his ears and shouted "Nah!", probably because trying to sneak T-Vo in was Abhi's entire reason for drafting this character.
I've then pointed out that Eradicator's ONLY T-Vo feats are:
a) edging out Superman, who he calls an amateur
b) later getting fooled by Superman's illusion via T-Vo
The only way that a) becomes impressive is if we apply ABC logic, and I'm happy to point out how silly that is, later in this post. In the meantime, appreciate that Abhilegend defends ABC logic with fervor because it's the resting point of his entire mental defense.
I'm going to tackle the only new points that Abhi has raised in response, and then move on from the telepathy discussion. If Abhi is unwilling to either respond to my post, bring new evidence, or concede defeat, then I'm happy to let the judges decide from here.
Where in that scan does Cable say he can't detect Lightmaster's thoughts? He wasn't shielded and he was suckerpunched, and says "good move". That's all you've got here. Notably, he was still fine.
I want to bring up the second time Abhi references Cable's fight with Lightmaster, even though it's off the topic of telepathy and onto the topic of telekinesis vs. energy beings, so bear with me while I jump ahead a bit:
As this debate has progressed, my opponent has gone from giving me empty condescension to outright vitriol, and mostly I don't mind because it's a KMC Belt Battle (that he's losing), but it's really annoying to be called a liar.
All that I said was that Cable manipulated Lightmaster's energy form (as Abhi pointed out, Lightmaster is an energy form whose 'mental patters have been converted to pure light!'), and he did.
In the last scan, the same one I provided earlier, Lightmaster can't control his movement, and Cable, with a smile, telekinetically directs him into the machine.
Then I provided context to attempt to explain that it was Cable directing him into the machine, because I was worried that it was otherwise unclear what was going on. I also thought that Cable turning the world pink was lolz. Judges, I am sorry if this was not clear, or if it seemed that I was implying anything more than Cable's ability to move Lightmaster's energy form against his will.
Abhilegend has taken my statement to indicate that Cable controlled Lightmaster's ability to transmit the virus into photons, and send it around the world, and then called me a liar.
I don't care if Cable did that, or could do that, because it doesn't help my case. The only thing I need to prove is that Cable can control Lightmaster's body with telekinesis, and that Lightmaster takes an energy form when he travels as photons at lightspeed. If I can prove that - and I did - then I can prove that Cable can affect Krypton Man with telekinesis because Krypton Man is also an energy form.
Incidentally, I'm happy that Abhi has both conceded that Lightmaster is an energy form rather unequivocally
Because it makes my end of the debate a lot easier
Ok, now let's get back to Lightmaster and telepathy.
Does anybody remember when Storm fans would say that she was resistant or immune to telepathy because she had lightning in her brain?
That's what you sound like right now.
Nowhere in the scan does it say that Cable can't detect his thoughts. And Abhi, I KNOW you've read the whole right (see: referring to it, calling me a liar), so I also know that you are aware that Cable tricked Lightmaster into attacking him so he could redirect Lightmaster into turning the world pink. We both know that Cable was aware of Lightmaster the entire time, and knew all along that he was a member of the One World Church.
Judges, you should also know this, because Abhi and I have both posted the scans to prove it. Here it is again:
So, there is no indication that Cable could not enter his mind and, in fact, every indication that Cable knew all along Lightmaster's every move - note how he can track him psionically, knowing even that Lightmaster is going to arrive slightly earlier than predicted:
Alright, other stuff that Abhi said about telepathy:
FFS. Krypton Man doesn't have electronic senses, because he doesn't have electronics. He doesn't even have programming, he's just a being with energy that bonded with that energy of the sun after his programming and circuitry was destroyed:
So, no electronic senses. He's an energy being with telepathy, and perhaps weird, esoteric energy sense (who knows, that's your case to make, I don't know that he's ever displayed anything beyond sight and hearing), but he definitely has telepathy, and he definitely has a mind, and Cable can definitely fool that mind.
Hilariously, when he later DOES get electronic senses and bonds with the Fortress and has experience using T-Vo, Superman then casually fools him with a T-Vo illusion... so your whole argument is a crock anyways.
While I'm on the topic: that scan above is NOT proof that Krypton Man can create a body in instants. Abhi, do you think the judges and I are illiterate?
"Understand, Kal-El, that your sun's intense heat did melt my shell and circuitry.
Yet the essence of my energies continued to exist. After a time my proficiency in controlling my nebulous energies increased-- and my fusion with the sun's core resulted in a unique rebirth"
You keep using that scan as if it will help you, when all it has done is proven:
a) Krypton Man is unique when compared to the other Eradicators, missing components (circuitry, programming), possessing others (suns energy)
b) Krypton Man took time to put his body together
Tell me Abhi, do you know how long that process took? At best the scan might be proof that when Cable shatters Krypton Man and sends his essence/atoms/whatever flying across the battlefield, he may eventually put himself back together... but we have no proof that it would be in instants, which means a forum win for Cable.
Although, knowing that the Fortress robots had to reassemble Eradicator after Krypton Man's energy body was dispersed is probably proof enough that you are, once again, full of it.
a) Krypton Man has no circuitry or programming; not a machine
b) Cassandra Nova and Shadow King (lacking real bodies), Apocalypse (bonded with technology) and the whole Authority team (using radio telepathy) all lead me to believe that you don't need a human brain to have a mind capable of telepathy, telepathic combat or getting f*cking psiblasted.
c) Proof of anything that you're saying?
d) Krypton Man HAS telepathy. Stop telling me his mind can't be detected or he's immune to telepathic attack, he has actual telepathy
You just posted an image of Superman using super-hypnosis on Eradicator. Once again:
a) Not Krypton Man
b) A decade after Krypton Man
c) Further proof that Eradicator is not > Superman with T-Vo (but we'll get to that in a moment)
Onus of proof is on you, my friend, to show that Krypton Man ever used T-Vo. No, a part of the Eradicator essence that lived in Fortress computers for a decade and then attacked Superman via fortress machinery is not Krypton Man.
Superman, Krypton Man, other Eradicator(s) and the use of ABC logic
Did you know that Spider-Man beat Firelord once? And Vulture has definitely taken it to Spider-Man at least once.
I guess I'll draft Vulture for my next mid-herald character.
Ooh, here's another one:
Dominus is supposed to be a multiversal mind right? But that multiversal mind lost to Superman with T-Vo, and I know Superman is a total amateur because Eradicator, a mid-herald character made Superman look bad... so I think any mid herald could outwill Dominus.
And God's will. That too.
Seriously though: ABC logic is all about spinning high feats against low feats to try and make one character look far superior without any other proof to support that conclusion. Superman beat Dominus and God's will with T-Vo (high feat), then seriously struggled against Eradicator with T-Vo (low feat) so therefore Eradicator could chump Spectre.
Meanwhile, let's toss out that Eradicator got chumped by Superman's T-Vo illusion, let's forget that he has zero other T-Vo feats to reference, and that his only other telepathic feats at all include connecting telepathically with Superman and mindwiping some no-name feeb civilian.
(Although, at least those last two feats belong to the Eradicator that you drafted, and not an Eradicator from the future with a different body, name and powerset).
You heard it here first, folks. Spectre is fodder for amateur telepaths.
But that's just it, you don't get to use Dominus' feats, just like I don't get X-Man's.
Cable ionized a planet telepathically. The weight of Cable's mind made Emma believe her shields were barely holding up, despite the fact that she had cerebra and Cable was directing zero attention towards the X-Men... and when Cable wanted to, he pierced those shields with ease. He filtered through the thoughts of the entire world, and manipulated their emotions and pain and responded to thoughts of murder, impending traffic accidents and would-be terrorist attacks.
Those are my feats of power. Now I can point to Cable, with almost no telepathic power, using that power to put down Cannonball, Colossus and others, because it indicates precision and versatility. I can point to him teaching the finer points of psi combat to a young Nate Grey, and standing up against Jean, Xavier and others, because we get a context for combat ability.
Really, that other stuff is just icing on the cake though. I can ultimately just say: Cable's huge, Emma Frost-breaking telepathic mind brings all its psi-weight to bear on Krypton Man's noggin.
We have no feat of Krypton Man channelling Dominus' multiversal information, because he didn't do it. Clark did, and Krypton Man, no matter how much you would like Abhi, doesn't get Clark's feats.