Hero of Tython vs Hero of Umbara

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NewGuy01
Enough of the HoU wank and discrediting respectively, serious debate must commence!

FreshestSlice
Originally posted by NewGuy01
His victory over Yoda was a sparring match, so it's questionable whether or not he could defeat Yoda when the latter was serious. His battles with Mace, Anakin, Obi-Wan, and Ahsoka respectively were not real, they were projections created by a Sith Lord named Varad Zagg.

His best feat I can find is driving off the Maul Brothers single handedly, which in itself is massively impressive. His main strength appears to be his dueling skill, however, so I doubt he'd be able to overcome Plagueis.



Keeping what you said in mind, HoT.

DarthAnt66
Tython couldn't defeat Yoda in a dueling match.
Also, Umbara defeated Kenobi and Skywalker in sparring matches.

FreshestSlice
I see no reason the HoT couldn't out spar an aging Yoda in a none serious fight. Yoda would most definitely outduel them, but this isn't a duel. Sparing matches aren't really the best judge either way, but it does show how strong the HoU is.

Nephthys
Tython

DarthAnt66
Nah. Even if they were sparing matches, I doubt he could overcome Yoda.
In the Fisto vs AotC Kenobi sparring match, Fisto still utterly outclassed Kenobi.

FreshestSlice
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Nah. Even if they were sparing matches, I doubt he could overcome Yoda.
In the Fisto vs AotC Kenobi sparring match, Fisto still utterly outclassed Kenobi.
And? HoT is well above both of these people. You could bring age into the equation, but even then, the situation is nowhere near comparable.

DarthAnt66
You depict sparing matches as the opponents don't try. This isn't the case.

NewGuy01
Let's not write the Hero of Umbara off either, though. He was the reigning Jedi Weapons Master of the Clone Wars. (Raskta Lsu's position)

He was a master in Ataru, and his ability with it was such that he was able to emerge victorious against Yoda in a sparring match. The fact that he was able to compete with Yoda as a peer in sparring means he's on Mace's or Dooku's level as a swordsman.

This is not all he's accomplished, though. He's also pushed back Count Dooku in their battle, which speaks for his Force competence, and he's also single handedly fought through the Ancient Sith Academy on Umbara and forced the Maul Brothers to retreat in their duel.

He's also the Order's greatest master of lightsaber throw. big grin

FreshestSlice
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
You depict sparing matches as the opponents don't try. This isn't the case.
No I don't. The fact is, a sparing match is not the same thing as a life or death fight, and even if it were, nothing but your opinion backs up that the HoT isn't fully capable of sparing and winning said spar against Yoda, especially when neither would be fighting to their fullest. Using sparing as a basis of power is shaky at best.

NewGuy01
Just realized that the HoU defeated the Maul brothers while on a Dark Side Nexus. It's entirely conceivable that he's on par with Yoda as a swordsman, considering that.

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
No I don't. The fact is, a sparing match is not the same thing as a life or death fight, and even if it were, nothing but your opinion backs up that the HoT isn't fully capable of sparing and winning said spar against Yoda, especially when neither would be fighting to their fullest. Using sparing as a basis of power is shaky at best.
Just as nothing but your opinion backs up that Yoda isn't capable of beating HoT in a duel, because he has superior dueling feats and is overall more powerful. To say otherwise contradicts Yoda's placement as more powerful then any Jedi before him. erm
Admit Tython's limitations, restrictions, failure, weakness, and inferiority. http://r26.imgfast.net/users/2613/36/14/96/smiles/3177439056.gif

DarthAnt66
Also Sasukedc, glad to see someone taking Umbara seriously.
To be honest, I agree he is around Tython level, most likely superior though.
His Force abilities, where are not fully establish, must be very impressive to defeat the opponents he has.
His saber skills are seemingly unparalleled, having an insane win-to-loss ratio against nearly all the Clone Wars characters.

However, does anyone have any TK feats for him?

Nephthys
No-ones saying Yoda can't beat the Hero in a duel. What they are saying is that the Hero can conceivably beat Yoda in a duel too.

DarthAnt66
He can, though not more then 5 out of then 10 times.
Then again, I question if Umbara could either.

FreshestSlice
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Just as nothing but your opinion backs up that Yoda isn't capable of beating HoT in a duel, because he has superior dueling feats and is overall more powerful. To say otherwise contradicts Yoda's placement as more powerful then any Jedi before him. erm
Admit Tython's limitations, restrictions, failure, weakness, and inferiority. http://r26.imgfast.net/users/2613/36/14/96/smiles/3177439056.gif
I get the reference, but I've never said HoT would ever beat Yoda in a duel. Ever. I think they are comparable swordsmen, Yoda probably more so, nothing more.

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
He can, though not more then 5 out of then 10 times.
Then again, I question if Umbara could either.

Nephthys
So.... we shouldn't use Umbara's victory as proof he's > Tython then?

DarthAnt66
According to Freshest, no. http://r26.imgfast.net/users/2613/36/14/96/smiles/752783128.gif
Though for me, that's enough confirmation.

FreshestSlice
I just don't see anything that shows the HoT couldn't repeat it.

Just to be clear, I don't think the HoU could beat Yoda either. That's why I don't really want to take it as proof that they are superior to the Hero of Tython.

Nephthys
thumb up

I don't think Umbara did anything that Tython couldn't have replicated.

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