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Who wins, Zannah as of Dynasty of Evil, or Revan as of TOR: Revan?

Sabers, Force, All-Out

Revan, but you already knew that would be my answer.

Don't we already have this topic?

we essentially do

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Don't we already have this topic?
I think the other topic was force fight only.

Originally posted by WildBantha88
we essentially do

Except Zannah could take Revan with her lightsaber skills and speed.

Speed won't be an issue.
Revan is capable of holding himself in a saber battle.

Revan would never get through her defense. And speed would be a factor. Imagine this but with a lightsaber and if Chun-li was blonde and also a sith lord:

http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100328042000/streetfighter/images/7/7d/Chuny-ts-kickz.gif

Revan's speed is Vitiate/Tython level.
Also, Battle precognition would be the *perfect* ability (besides Shatterpoint) to predict where to break her defense.

Revan's speed is below Zannah's.

I don't see how.

I don't see this fight being decided by their lightsaber abilities.

Zannah is not aggressive enough to press Revan in a duel, but her defense wouldn't be broken by Revan either.

It might be below, but it won't be a determining factor.
Once again, Zannah won't beat Tython/Vitiate with speed.

I do. He will be predicting Zannah's movements, and then can foresee a break/gap in her defense, where other opponents could not.
But I agree with Emperordmb, the Force battle is the determining factor, and we already have a thread going for that.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
It might be below, but it won't be a determining factor.
Once again, Zannah won't beat Tython/Vitiate with speed.

I do. He will be predicting Zannah's movements, and then can foresee a break/gap in her defense, where other opponents could not.
But I agree with Emperordmb, the Force battle is the determining factor, and we already have a thread going for that.

I only suggested it as one factor in the first place.

Zannah is just creating a spinning defensive wall, theres nothing to predict. Such a tactic doesn't leave any gaps in her defense either.

Have I at least convinced you that it would be a tougher force fight than you thought it'd be?

Like the other thread shows, it will be brought down to:
Revan's Lightning vs Zannah's Sorcery.
Neither will get an advantage in telekinesis.
At least that is how I see it.

http://i39.servimg.com/u/f39/17/73/92/12/gap10.png
There would be a gap in all the blue space.

Do you not understand the meaning of spinning?

I do, that's why I put the areas. The saber is spinning in a circle shape, correct?
The saber is not large enough to cover every (blue) area at once.
It's her speed in which she spins it that makes it cover everything.
The picture above is assuming time *froze*, and you see her spinning stop.

Good, have a cookie.

Her technique is effective because its impossible for someone to fully thrust their lightsaber through the blue circle where the blade isn't currently present before the spinning blade catches it and deflects it to the side. It doesn't matter that theres gaps if you stop time, because the blade spins too fast for Revans lightsaber to actually get through. So there isn't actually a gap.

Except there are two notable cons in this technique.
1. She cannot really do anything else when performing this barrier.
2. She *will* eventually tire, and the speed of the spinning will steadily slow.
Revan's Force reserve is larger then hers, plus has greater endurance and stamina feats.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Except there are two notable cons in this technique.
1. She cannot really do anything else when performing this barrier.
2. She *will* eventually tire, and the speed of the spinning will steadily slow.
Revan's Force reserve is larger then hers, plus has greater endurance and stamina feats.

1. So? The whole point is to tire out the opponent then switch to offense. Theres nothing else she needs to do while doing this. Although RoT does suggest she can counter-attack quickly while doing this.

2. Zannah states that she can keep it up almost endlessly. She trained largely on increasing her stamina and wrist strength to be able to keep it up as long as possible and outlast opponents. Her style expends far less effort than her opponent does attacking it.

Zannah's Force reserves > Revan's.

Revan can call upon both sides of the Force in reserve, Zannah cannot. In fact, Revan's Force reserve is logically a direct rival of Vitiate's Force reserve, based on their mental war.
Meanwhile, Revan's endurance/stamina is enough to kill hundreds of Dark Jedi on the Star Forge, beat Bastila Shan a couple times, go and fight/deactivate an infinite droid factory, and then also defeating Malak a couple times. Zannah doesn't even *compare*.

That doesn't give greater Force reserves. He's drawing on his own natural power no matter if he's using the Light or Dark sides. That doesn't make him a rival to Vitiate's Force reserves at all. He almost died from that mental war, lol. Zannah's Force reserves do rival Vitiates though.

That doesn't matter. Her technique will sap his stamina while conserving her. He doesn't have the strength, skill or speed to press her defenses enough to tire her out. Also Revan had time to rest during the Star Forge battle, while he was making his new robes and talking to Bastila and Malak before fighting them.

He almost died from that mental war because of the *draining*, not because he couldn't handle Vitiate's mental powers.
With Meetra replenishing the energy he was losing from the *draining*, his natural strength was able to lock Vitiate in a mental war for 300 years!
Drawing from the light *and* dark allows him to call upon extra energy when needed to supply himself. Assuming the world isn't on a nexus, Zannah can only draw on half of that energy.

You think Revan, one of the greatest military leaders in history, is stupid enough to know that her technique will do that to him?
Revan will probably know this via instantly thanks to precognition, and come up with a plan to counter it. He's good at that.
Spinning your blade constantly requires more energy then just tapping at the barrier every so often.
Zannah will tire long before Revan does. You think he will just recklessly attack her and waist his energy?

Lol wut. There were Dark Jedi in the room he makes his new robes, and I seriously even doubt he made new robes.
Canonically, he wore the Qel-Droma robes from Korriban to the Star Forge, according to the vision that came true.
Talking to Bastila/Malak for a couple of seconds doesn't mean anything. They were on a *Dark Side nexus*.

Also, the Star Forge *feeds* off life and the Force. If you are not apparently drawing on it's powers like the Sith were, it is technically draining you, right?

Revan's robes had to be remade because he's wearing them in the book and in TOR. He wore Qel-Droma's outer robe over that, I believe, though.

The robes in KotOR aren't the same as in the novel.

What the ****?!!!!

Somebody stop me if I misread something, but did Revan take a break from trying to stop Malak on the Star Forge... TO MAKE ROBES?!!!!!

And his mask. Revan can't do anything without looking stylish after all.

Originally posted by Nephthys
That doesn't give greater Force reserves. He's drawing on his own natural power no matter if he's using the Light or Dark sides. That doesn't make him a rival to Vitiate's Force reserves at all. He almost died from that mental war, lol. Zannah's Force reserves do rival Vitiates though.
Zannah is now on par with Vitiate, seriously? Don't be ridiculous.

Originally posted by Nephthys
That doesn't matter. Her technique will sap his stamina while conserving her. He doesn't have the strength, skill or speed to press her defenses enough to tire her out. Also Revan had time to rest during the Star Forge battle, while he was making his new robes and talking to Bastila and Malak before fighting them.
Revan have fought individuals who were practitioners of Force Drain powers, and prevailed. I am not sure how Zannah can sap Revan's strength. Revan would have an answer for Force Drain.

On what basis are you concluding that Zannah have greater raw power then Revan? Have Zannah ever battled hordes of Sith forces and defeated multiple Sith Lords in a single prolonged battle? Have Zannah ever demonstrated the raw power to pull off Yoda like feats against Sith powers?

Revan have demonstrated greater raw power then Zannah, his performance on Star Forge and later on against Nyriss proves this.

In addition, Revan is also very fast, just that speed feats aren't always quantifiable.

has.... ****ING "HAS"

Originally posted by Emperordmb
What the ****?!!!!

Somebody stop me if I misread something, but did Revan take a break from trying to stop Malak on the Star Forge... TO MAKE ROBES?!!!!!
Unlikely, though it is an option.'
It's very doubtful though, considering he doesn't wear them.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
The robes in KotOR aren't the same as in the novel.
I chock the coloration up to game mechanics. The mask isn't the same in the game and in the novel/game either, if we're going there.

Legend, I'm taking about Zannah's lightsaber technique, not a Force power.

Zannah has more raw power than Darth Bane, who is a rival of Vitiate.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
I chock the coloration up to game mechanics. The mask isn't the same in the game and in the novel/game either, if we're going there.
No, they are canonically different robes.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
No, they are canonically different robes.
Oh? I must have missed that. Of course Revan wears similar robes before even finding the Star Forge, so I wouldn't be surprised.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Zannah has more raw power than Darth Bane, who is a rival of Vitiate.
http://static.gamespot.com/uploads/original/1338/13388005/2389133-4949054815-micha.gif

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
He almost died from that mental war because of the *draining*, not because he couldn't handle Vitiate's mental powers.
With Meetra replenishing the energy he was losing from the *draining*, his natural strength was able to lock Vitiate in a mental war for 300 years!
Drawing from the light *and* dark allows him to call upon extra energy when needed to supply himself. Assuming the world isn't on a nexus, Zannah can only draw on half of that energy.

That doesn't make him have comparable power to Vitiate's power. All it does is prove he can resist Vitiate's mental probing. That doesn't require him to have similar raw power. He obviously doesn't, otherwise his "demonstration of raw power" wouldn't have failed against Vitiate's lightning.

That's not how the Force works you dolt. Does Sidious only have half the power of Revan? Don't be stupid. A Force adepts ability to draw on the Force relies on their Force Mastery, not how many sides of the Force they can draw on. Revan would have no more energy than if he were 100% light or dark.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
You think Revan, one of the greatest military leaders in history, is stupid enough to know that her technique will do that to him?
Revan will probably know this via instantly thanks to precognition, and come up with a plan to counter it. He's good at that.
Spinning your blade constantly requires more energy then just tapping at the barrier every so often.
Zannah will tire long before Revan does. You think he will just recklessly attack her and waist his energy?

Revan has a history of doing the same thing over and over when it doesn't work. If he's dumb enough to attack Vitiate head on again and again maybe he's dumb enough to try to wear Zannah down through attrition. It's not like theres anything else he can do.

What plan? The only thing he could try is Force attacks and Zannah has her lightsaber here so no lightning, TK is a bust and he's got nothing else.

No it doesn't. Lightsaber combat takes a lot of energy, that's why Yoda is so tired after a few minutes of whirling around. Zannah's technique is designed around a minimization of effort. It's stated that it takes her barely anything to deflect blows. Revan will expend more energy than her.

Lol, no she won't. He can't press her at all in lightsabers.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Lol wut. There were Dark Jedi in the room he makes his new robes, and I seriously even doubt he made new robes.
Canonically, he wore the Qel-Droma robes from Korriban to the Star Forge, according to the vision that came true.
Talking to Bastila/Malak for a couple of seconds doesn't mean anything. They were on a *Dark Side nexus*.

See above. He at least made himself a new mask.

Talking with them gives him a chance to rest and recover his stamina.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
http://static.gamespot.com/uploads/original/1338/13388005/2389133-4949054815-micha.gif

Also:

Tulak Hord, Nihilus, Sidious, Plagueis and others.

I'll respond soon.

I have so many debates to reply to across these boards.

That is why I stick to Revan/Malak on these boards.
The two Zannah vs Revan threads are my only debate.

Originally posted by Nephthys
That doesn't make him have comparable power to Vitiate's power. All it does is prove he can resist Vitiate's mental probing. That doesn't require him to have similar raw power.
Resisting Vitiate's mental probing *is* a demonstration of Revan's power. It is not only a showcase his will-power, but also Force Resistance.
Both were actively drawing on the Force to aid themselves in the mental-war. "Though he was physically helpless, mentally he was strong enough to wage war against the Emperor..."
Now I will reference to the quote where it says "It took only a fraction of the Emperor's loathsome power to complete their fall."
Mind-domination is a demonstration of power, as that quote proves. Defending against it would also then be one, as well. Similar to lightning and tutaminis.


Originally posted by Nephthys
He obviously doesn't, otherwise his "demonstration of raw power" wouldn't have failed against Vitiate's lightning.
The Sith Emperor was actively charging up his energy in that situation. Hardly an accurate representation.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Revan has a history of doing the same thing over and over when it doesn't work. If he's dumb enough to attack Vitiate head on again and again maybe he's dumb enough to try to wear Zannah down through attrition. It's not like theres anything else he can do.
Excuse yourself. Revan charging Vitiate was a demonstration of his tactical ingenuity.
Vitiate was harnessing and preparing his power, and charging him would be the only course of action to prevent him from doing such.
On top of this, this saves Revan from a direct mental-assault in the beginning because Vitiate has to worry about defending himself.

Originally posted by Nephthys
What plan? The only thing he could try is Force attacks and Zannah has her lightsaber here so no lightning, TK is a bust and he's got nothing else.
Plan in terms of how to engage her, like tactics. And, Revan can use Force Drain.
And I would like to see Zannah defend against a FLS with her saber, because I see that rather unlikely.

Originally posted by Nephthys
No it doesn't. Lightsaber combat takes a lot of energy, that's why Yoda is so tired after a few minutes of whirling around. Zannah's technique is designed around a minimization of effort. It's stated that it takes her barely anything to deflect blows. Revan will expend more energy than her.

Lol, no she won't. He can't press her at all in lightsabers.
Total bullshit. And average lightsaber like Revan's is said to weigh 2.2 pounds according to Roleplaying Game: Saga Edition Core Rulebook.
Zannah's lightsaber has an elongated hilt, deeming it logically heavier. Hell, based on the pictures, it might be two times the size!
It would require more energy to twirl a heavier lightsaber in a 360 degree circle over and over again then to just swing one in a strait line.

http://www.arizonatwirlingathletes.com/Gifs/BatonTwirling.gif http://imageshack.us/a/img856/613/mg4.gif


I don't recall you make a mask their anwyay, just the robes.
The only canonical representation shows him with the Droma robes also:
http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100828034841/starwars/images/thumb/e/e0/Revan_fights_Malak.jpg/300px-Revan_fights_Malak.jpg


Did anyone lol at this?
http://images.wikia.com/degrassi/images/6/6b/Freddie_raise_hand.gif
"The next hour is spent frantically blasting, swiping, and crushing countless Dark Jedi and Sith heavy weapons and elite troopers on your way through the decks of the space station."
―Knights of the Old Republic Prima Guide

He fights through Dark Jedi for an *hour*. A ****ing *hour*! Yoda get's tired after a couple minutes...Revan ****ing fights for an hour, then goes on to slam down Bastila and Malak. You seriously think Malak would let Revan recover his strength? Let's get serious. I actually question if that is even possible for a Lightside user, considering the Star Forge feeds off the Force and life.

Right...canonical representation.

http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100611230733/starwars/images/thumb/2/28/Revan_Shan_Darth_Malak.jpg/640px-Revan_Shan_Darth_Malak.jpg
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
http://r26.imgfast.net/users/2613/36/14/96/smiles/752783128.gif


Though there is another one with him fighting through the Star Forge, but of course, that could be before he reaches the station to remake the robes. Either way, I doubt it matters since the Star Forge would not take large amounts of time to remake anything wearable by one person.

EDIT: Now politically correct

Meh, it's in the SWTORE. It's accurate without Shan, like Wookiee uses.
Also, don't use my smiles from my forum. We aren't considered friends yet.

But I didn't use it, that's a quote from you that I took the tags off of.

Lol, I'm joking bro.

Reborn Revan wins this easily...hence the quote I am Revan,reborn
before me you are nothing.

that's a good quote,We Sith are an unseen opposition.A phantom menace.
Where the Sith once used armor,we now wear cloaks.But the Force works through us all the more powerfully in our invisibility.

I like that.

Originally posted by juyomaster34
Reborn Revan wins this easily...
Nobody is winning this one easily.

Zannah might be a talented sorcerist but she is no Revan with knowledge of both light and dark.including the forbidden rituals and etc.

please...Zannah has no chance. the tendril thing ain't nothing compared to the thought bomb and who knows what else Revan learned from the Rakata.

so imo easily wins.Revan is power my friend. Zannah is just a place holder.she shouldn't even be compared to Revan or even in the same category as Revan.

what I mean by easily is this is a no brainer,look at Revan's skills, his accomplishments,his power alone was enough for Malak to fear him and Darth Bane to respect him.

Who is Darth Zannah when she earned DLOS what did accomplish?
Who did she duel? Did she grow in power to be in the same shoes as Revan?
No.until they reveal more about Zannah then we can compare her with Revan.imo there is not enough information on her to be even close to Revan,imo respectfully.

Originally posted by juyomaster34
Zannah might be a talented sorcerist but she is no Revan with knowledge of both light and dark.including the forbidden rituals and etc.
Zannah was apprenticed to Bane, who had the knowledge from Revan's holocron as well as providing Zannah with the knowledge from Freedon Nadd's holocron. Freedon Nadd's own knowledge was very extensive.

Not trying to start a flame war about who is more knowledgeable of the two, but it is definitely not a trump card.

Originally posted by juyomaster34
please...Zannah has no chance. the tendril thing ain't nothing compared to the thought bomb and who knows what else Revan learned from the Rakata.
Zannah could use the tendrils FAAAAARRRRRR more easily than Revan could use the thought bomb. Plus the thought bomb is a suicide weapon. All in all this point does absolutely nothing in Revan's favor.

Originally posted by juyomaster34
so imo easily wins.Revan is power my friend. Zannah is just a place holder.she shouldn't even be compared to Revan or even in the same category as Revan.
Zannah is very underrated as a force wielder and a duelist. Her illusions can break all but the most powerful minds, and she is one of the most effective defensive duelists in the mythos.

THE most effective defense, imo.

Originally posted by Nephthys
THE most effective defense, imo.
Quite possibly

Originally posted by Nephthys
THE most effective defense, imo.
Have you by any chance seen my Interesting Fighting Styles post for her?

How about the hilt, for weak spots? Lol.

A minimal movement avoids that.

This is Reborn Revan,not the old Revan.His new abilities wasn't recorded in his holocron. the most effective defense? not entirely true.

nice opinion,but not true fact.when has all defense and no offense helped anybody? I think never...

Who cares about tendrils? Bane didn't have the knowledge to defend against them.I bet Reborn Revan does.


It still falls in Reborn Revan's favor

the post says Reborn Revan,meaning after he made that holocron as Darth Revan.

meaning Reborn Revan's knowledge still supports my agrument in which Zannah or Bane has no knowledge of his new teachings or techniques.

which also still supports my oppinion that Reborn Revan wins...and I still quote easily...I AM Revan reborn,before me Darth Zannah is nothing. imo respectfully.

Originally posted by juyomaster34

that's a good quote,We Sith are an unseen opposition.A phantom menace.
Where the Sith once used armor,we now wear cloaks.But the Force works through us all the more powerfully in our invisibility.

I like that.
There's a reason he's called Plagueis the Wise. He learned from the best.

Originally posted by juyomaster34
This is Reborn Revan,not the old Revan.His new abilities wasn't recorded in his holocron.
Revan also didn't have access to Nadd's vast knowledge, which Bane and Zannah had full access to.

Originally posted by juyomaster34
the most effective defense? not entirely true.
It's certainly one of the most effective defenses in lightsaber dueling.

Originally posted by juyomaster34
nice opinion,but not true fact.when has all defense and no offense helped anybody? I think never...
Zannah is uncomfortable in an offensive role as a duelist, but is still perfectly capable of offensive maneuvers when the opportunity presents itself. Plus she also has her force abilities to lash out with.

Originally posted by juyomaster34
Who cares about tendrils? Bane didn't have the knowledge to defend against them.I bet Reborn Revan does.
What on Earth leads toy to believe Revan can defend against the Tendrils?

Originally posted by juyomaster34
the post says Reborn Revan,meaning after he made that holocron as Darth Revan. meaning Reborn Revan's knowledge still supports my agrument in which Zannah or Bane has no knowledge of his new teachings or techniques.
And Revan never had access to Nadd's teachings or techniques.

Originally posted by juyomaster34
which also still supports my oppinion that Reborn Revan wins...and I still quote easily...I AM Revan reborn,before me Darth Zannah is nothing. imo respectfully.
No. Please explain with what Revan would beat Zannah "easily"

Revan didn't put everything he knew about the Force in his holocron.He didn't put everything he knew about the Rakata either.

If I had a choice between Nadd's teachings and The Rakata's teachings,I'll
go with the Rakata's teachings and technology.

Originally posted by juyomaster34
Revan didn't put everything he knew about the Force in his holocron.He didn't put everything he knew about the Rakata either.

If I had a choice between Nadd's teachings and The Rakata's teachings,I'll
go with the Rakata's teachings and technology.
Nadd has some quote about him having knowledge of all force techniques or something. Possible hyperbole, but it does demonstrate a depth of knowledge.

And what Rakatan teachings has Revan demonstrated that would be game changing?

I don't see how knowledge of Rakatan technology will help Revan here... he's not equipped with the Star Forge.

I ask you again... with what does Revan stomp Zannah?

**** off Intrepid

Revan could circumvent her main offensive capabilities by using his unrivaled force absorb, this isn't a good match up for zannah.

Force absorb isn't very useful against Zannah as she doesn't employ energy based attacks.