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so, i can't believe there isn't a thread dedicated to the myriad avengers books going on right now. this is a place to discuss all things avengers.

i already stated my opinion of avengers and new avengers in a different thread, but to reiterate--i'm damn tired of the direction and would love to see the situation resolved. i'm very much enjoying avengers undercover and am catching up on mighty avengers. so, thoughts....?

on a slightly different note--any fans of da vinci's demons? it was cool to see hickman writing for the show. matt fraction has also written for the series. i still love it though. lol

Originally posted by leonidas
so, i can't believe there isn't a thread dedicated to the myriad avengers books going on right now. this is a place to discuss all things avengers.

i already stated my opinion of avengers and new avengers in a different thread, but to reiterate--i'm damn tired of the direction and would love to see the situation resolved. i'm very much enjoying avengers undercover and am catching up on mighty avengers. so, thoughts....?

There actually is one. I made a couple years back. It sank to the bottom, like this one likely will as well.

Also doesn't help when most folks mainly visit the comic book verses.

yeah, too bad. i enjoy these threads that actually discuss, you know....comics. instead of just characters fighting each other.

Originally posted by leonidas
yeah, too bad. i enjoy these threads that actually discuss, you know....comics. instead of just characters fighting each other.

Same here.

I'm only reading Uncanny Avengers at the moment, it's a monthly title so there is less to discuss than in your regular bimonthly title, but it has had a nice pay off so far.

It felt sort of ripp-offy towards House of M, but with more Kang.

Originally posted by Kazenji
Also doesn't help when most folks mainly visit the comic book verses. Originally posted by leonidas
yeah, too bad. i enjoy these threads that actually discuss, you know....comics. instead of just characters fighting each other.

Agreed... too much emphasis on fights and feats.

Not really enjoying Avengers much at the moment. Avengers & NA are OK, but there aren't really any classic stories anymore. Uncanny I don't like just because of the mess they made of the Celestials.

Originally posted by Bentley
I'm only reading Uncanny Avengers at the moment, it's a monthly title so there is less to discuss than in your regular bimonthly title, but it has had a nice pay off so far.

It felt sort of ripp-offy towards House of M, but with more Kang.

i'm just getting caught up on my uncanny avengers but i really didn't like the feel of the book initially. i wasn't a fan of the red skull arc but figured i might as well keep going to see if it got better. good to know you think it pays off.

Originally posted by basilisk
Agreed... too much emphasis on fights and feats.

Not really enjoying Avengers much at the moment. Avengers & NA are OK, but there aren't really any classic stories anymore. Uncanny I don't like just because of the mess they made of the Celestials.

have you been following mighty avengers? i'm enjoying that book better than avengers and def more than new avengers, which is the book i'm least enjoying. it's weird though--after having invested so much time in reading and following the arc, i feel i need to see it come to it's conclusion, but i don't see anyway the pay off can be good enough.

I'm a big fan of the Mighty Avengers, and New Avengers.

Originally posted by leonidas
have you been following mighty avengers? i'm enjoying that book better than avengers and def more than new avengers, which is the book i'm least enjoying. it's weird though--after having invested so much time in reading and following the arc, i feel i need to see it come to it's conclusion, but i don't see anyway the pay off can be good enough.

I don't think the payoff will be good enough either. It's long and drawn out without any reason to be. Not terrible, and it's interesting at times, but a lot of it is just more of the same Hickman guff and it just can't seem to reach any epic heights. Hickman probably thinks it's awesome, but that's Hickman for you.

Forgot about MA, I did read the Shuma Gorath arc which was not bad. Might look into catching up on it.

you're right about hickman's stuff. in a way, he reminds me a little of stephen king. king's books are engaging and long but they drag you along because they are interesting enough, and yet, invariably, the ending sucks but you're willing to overlook the end because the journey was cool enough to put up with it. in this case though it's just becoming tedious. black swan needs to actually do something besides looking tough and ominous--something positive needs to happen. hell, even hulk was shown to not be the strongest in this arc! it's depressing. i mostly enjoyed his work on FF but his stuff just seems to....fade away as opposed to being definitively resolved. least that's my take on it.

Black Swan must be one of the least interesting characters to take up panels in a long time.

I don't know exactly what it is about the whole arc, but part of it is that the Avengers just seem to have lost their humanity somehow. There are lots of tough decisions, betrayals, testing moments, and universe crunching events but there is no normalcy in their lives. The human side of the characters was once upon a time what made Marvel successful.

i agree 110%! that's actually a really good point. and i really hate what has happened to namor who at one time was such an honourable character.... they are struggling with their humanity, but it seems to be sliding. maybe they will be redeemed eventually, but it already seems they have crossed a bridge. sun god's team was def the team to root for in the battle which seems.....wrong to me. sun god's team was what the new avengers should have been. namor and strange have gone totally off the rails. only beast seems to retain some redeeming qualities. this level of doom and gloom can only be carried so far before it wears very thin and you simply start disliking the characters. that's about where i'm at now. like i said--i'd stop reading it, but after all the issues i do want to see how it gets resolved. i just hope it happens soon.....

Im only reading Undercover right now. I like that book so far.

undercover is excellent. i love nico.

Im a Hazmat fan, Zemo, Masque & Constrictor are like sprinkles on this fanboy sundae.

I'm starting to really hate Uncanny Avengers. Each issue seems to get dumber and dumber.

Plus considering Remender only wants to write about Apocalypse like almost every book for the past few years, why doesn't he actually bring the character back? Not some shitty kidpocalypse or Twins form, the actual character. This series seems as good as any.

And this Red Skullslaught payoff better be worth it.

Yeah.. Really getting annoyed with Avengers/New Avengers..
Stories unfold like molasses.. And wut the phukk is Hickman's hard on for Superman analogues? I have a million Superman books to read that from. Hyperion Now was enough. He made such a big splash, but is back to being underutilized.

Uncanny is still kinda cool. Kinda like how Sentry has a more defined role in MU. Before he was annoying with his agoraphobic schizophrenic hullabaloo. Now at least he's batshiet, but don't give a phukk. I'm feelin this whole confident nut job persona.

Mighty is somewhat interesting. I'm just there for Blue Marvel and Spectrum.

Avengers World is kinda ok with it's showcasing of certain characters per issue. Lord knows we need screentime for the less popular characters. Goddamn team is too big.

Not reading Secret Avengers and Avengers Undercover atm..

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Kinda like how Sentry has a more defined role in MU. Oddly enough as much as I dislike Sentry, I don't even mind that part.

It's just the plot moves at 1 mph, Celestials are just laughing devices that apparently stare at an axe that kills them and wait for it to kill them... unexplainably at that. The Twins are just a way for Remender to pretend he's writing Apocalypse just like how he made Kidpocalypse and Evan. Genocide got completely forgotten. The stupidity of Rogue and Scarlet Witch and their deaths and then all of the sudden doesn't count because two issues that ultimately meant nothing because lol changed!

Now Kang is going to gain the power of Exitar who just got killed by a tiny neck wound, and naturally the Axe is likely to end that because it just did. Or Sentry.

Also, Thor just died but so did everyone else in the series. Naturally that means nothing.

Among other things. The Apocalypse Twins have been enemies for what 15 issues straight? Before that it was the Red Skull who has literally done nothing since then and wasn't even defeated but he's going to rule the world. I don't know, it's just hard to read. Staleness I guess. Quite frankly, Sentry is like the only redeeming part of this for me. I bet the end conclusion of this arc that we've been lied to many times of this being the end could have been resolved in one issue in the 80's.

At least with Hickman it changes shit up all the time. Infinity, different characters, etc. Although I'm not a fan at all of the current time jumping issues.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Oddly enough as much as I dislike Sentry, I don't even mind that part.

It's just the plot moves at 1 mph, Celestials are just laughing devices that apparently stare at an axe that kills them and wait for it to kill them... unexplainably at that. The Twins are just a way for Remender to pretend he's writing Apocalypse just like how he made Kidpocalypse and Evan. Genocide got completely forgotten. The stupidity of Rogue and Scarlet Witch and their deaths and then all of the sudden doesn't count because two issues that ultimately meant nothing because lol changed!

Now Kang is going to gain the power of Exitar who just got killed by a tiny neck wound, and naturally the Axe is likely to end that because it just did. Or Sentry.

Also, Thor just died but so did everyone else in the series. Naturally that means nothing.

Among other things. The Apocalypse Twins have been enemies for what 15 issues straight? Before that it was the Red Skull who has literally done nothing since then and wasn't even defeated but he's going to rule the world. I don't know, it's just hard to read. Staleness I guess. Quite frankly, Sentry is like the only redeeming part of this for me. I bet the end conclusion of this arc that we've been lied to many times of this being the end could have been resolved in one issue in the 80's.

At least with Hickman it changes shit up all the time. Infinity, different characters, etc. Although I'm not a fan at all of the current time jumping issues.
I feel ya.

Hickman for me has too much shiet going on in that noggin of his. His Avengers are all over the place, while the main plotline is stuck at 1mph like Uncanny.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Oddly enough as much as I dislike Sentry, I don't even mind that part.

It's just the plot moves at 1 mph, Celestials are just laughing devices that apparently stare at an axe that kills them and wait for it to kill them... unexplainably at that. The Twins are just a way for Remender to pretend he's writing Apocalypse just like how he made Kidpocalypse and Evan. Genocide got completely forgotten. The stupidity of Rogue and Scarlet Witch and their deaths and then all of the sudden doesn't count because two issues that ultimately meant nothing because lol changed!

Now Kang is going to gain the power of Exitar who just got killed by a tiny neck wound, and naturally the Axe is likely to end that because it just did. Or Sentry.

Also, Thor just died but so did everyone else in the series. Naturally that means nothing.

I bet Thor did not die there, but the deaths are probably the lamest thing on Uncanny and it's rather predictable because killing characters in a timetravel story is like yelling "incoming retcon!". That's Remender for you, he kills characters.

The Celestials losing their stock in the market seems to be a trend on Marvel right now, Janborn is like a logical extension of that. "So Mr. Sinister and the High Evolutionary can punk a Celestial and use it to gain powers, Reed with a gun from his closet can do them in. Hence, someone like Odin should be able to at least kill them". Kang was implied to have coveted the power of the Celestials before (during one of those awful Nebula-Kang crossvers), so they are not really raping canon with that.

Originally posted by Bentley
I bet Thor did not die there, but the deaths are probably the lamest thing on Uncanny and it's rather predictable because killing characters in a timetravel story is like yelling "incoming retcon!". That's Remender for you, he kills characters.

The Celestials losing their stock in the market seems to be a trend on Marvel right now, Janborn is like a logical extension of that. "So Mr. Sinister and the High Evolutionary can punk a Celestial and use it to gain powers, Reed with a gun from his closet can do them in. Hence, someone like Odin should be able to at least kill them". Kang was implied to have coveted the power of the Celestials before (during one of those awful Nebula-Kang crossvers), so they are not really raping canon with that. Meh, at least Tiamut was inert when Mr Sinister/High E did their shit.

The axe penetrating and turning off their healing factors to die by "blood loss" is retarded.

I don't have too many issues with Kang simply gaining powers from blood that was said to kill Thor, as I do with him gaining powers from a being that just died by a neck wound when his downfall is written right there. An axe.

"Hey, this planet sized being just died by a papercut. I'm going to take his powers and become the most powerful being in the universe."

Also, I forgot, but Rogue gaining hundreds of powers was retarded too.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
"Hey, this planet sized being just died by a papercut. I'm going to take his powers and become the most powerful being in the universe."

If Kang used logic he would probably just flee the battlefield after Thor arrives awesr


Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Also, I forgot, but Rogue gaining hundreds of powers was retarded too.

Muties had to do something if you want to name your book Uncanny

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Yeah.. Really getting annoyed with Avengers/New Avengers..
Stories unfold like molasses.. And wut the phukk is Hickman's hard on for Superman analogues? I have a million Superman books to read that from. Hyperion Now was enough. He made such a big splash, but is back to being underutilized.

Uncanny is still kinda cool. Kinda like how Sentry has a more defined role in MU. Before he was annoying with his agoraphobic schizophrenic hullabaloo. Now at least he's batshiet, but don't give a phukk. I'm feelin this whole confident nut job persona.

Mighty is somewhat interesting. I'm just there for Blue Marvel and Spectrum.

Avengers World is kinda ok with it's showcasing of certain characters per issue. Lord knows we need screentime for the less popular characters. Goddamn team is too big.

Not reading Secret Avengers and Avengers Undercover atm..
Yeah, Hickman might as well come to DC and write superman at this point.

Originally posted by Supermex
Who's been reading this?
What you think?


The New Avengers "Illuminate"

Black Panther
Hulk
Dr.Strange
Namor
Black Bolt
Reed Ricard's
Beast
Iron Man

okay, so caught up on the uncanny title now. the whole arc was pretty predictable imo. not sure why, but a couple things REALLY stood out as inexcusable to me--mags easily controlling doom 2099's armor, and of course, BLOB squashing doom 2099!!? WTF??! whenever these big deaths happen (like reaper killing cap) it's always so....lame. and it was clear as soon as a couple characters were killed off that they'd go back in time and fix it all. sooooo fekkin predictable. and stupid mutants! they get their own damn planet and they even screw THAT up!

i actually didn't see why the issue of taking the mutants off planet was such a 'crime' though. can't really blame them if they wanted to go and it would make things so much easier. i'm REALLY REALLY tired of all the dystopian futures running around in marvel these days. if humans win out, all mutants are destroyed or subjugated. if mutants win, all humans are destroyed and subjugated. all the alternate futures are HORRIBLE, and there are FAR TOO MANY OF THEM!! how many futures have the avengers alone seen and been through lately??

it is asinine.

can we please get a story where a big villain in the present is threatening the city and just watch the avengers punch him out?? what the hell is wrong this that idea all of a sudden? these alternate futures and all these possible timeline stories that are polluting the avengers titles are RIDICULOUS!

and i won't even bother getting into the idea of that nonsensical fekkin axe that one-shots celestials. x-men angst really dragged the title down for me. the plot was grand and a little addictive, and i actually enjoyed havok in the series, but overall, i'm afraid i have to, AGAIN, say i am disappointed in an avengers title. in the past, i would rarely ever say that.....

^I feel like they could've carried out this plot just fine even without almost all of the time-travel. And that's the same ****ing plot!

It's like he felt the need to force timetravel in there simply because Kang was in it.

Originally posted by leonidas
can we please get a story where a big villain in the present is threatening the city and just watch the avengers punch him out??

Complaining about predictability and proposing the most played story in the universe instead mmm

Again, I read most of your post as a jab against House of M, Age of Ultron (phuck AoU) and similar events. Uncanny isn't an event, it's a story about Kang (who unlike any of the above is actually a time traveler and has a reason to feature alternate universes) that's contained in a single book. Has it been done to death as of late? Indeed, but the industry lives off -mostly- recycled plots.

Kris makes a valid point.

Originally posted by Bentley
Complaining about predictability and proposing the most played story in the universe instead mmm

Again, I read most of your post as a jab against House of M, Age of Ultron (phuck AoU) and similar events. Uncanny isn't an event, it's a story about Kang (who unlike any of the above is actually a time traveler and has a reason to feature alternate universes) that's contained in a single book. Has it been done to death as of late? Indeed, but the industry lives off -mostly- recycled plots.

Kris makes a valid point.

the thing is, the 'predictable' is no longer predictable. simplicity isn't predictability. for example--the classic count nefaria storyline off the top of my head was basically--see villain, beat villain. it happens in spidey all the time. i'm just very much losing interest in the convoluted plots coming out of the avengers titles lately, and it DOES stem from the sources you're suggesting. even recently a crisis came up in marvel BECAUSE of their tampering with all the timelines (was it infinity?? can't keep track anymore....) and even STILL they continue with these plots. if it were ONLY uncanny, or ONLY avengers, maybe, but all these timelines and alternate futures in ALL the main avengers titles?? too much imho.

and while i have a new-found love of kang (heh) this plot was too convoluted to be believable imo. cool that he ended up outsmarting the twins (cuz they kinda sucked arse anyway....) but the twists and turns and the ploy he supposedly set in motion and foresaw was....a little hard to believe imo, though i loved his endgame goal--would have been cool if he got and KEPT the power and became the next 'big' villain for the collective avengers to face, but.....even THAT part of the story was disappointing.

i like the idea of uncanny a lot, and one thing that WAS well done i think was the human/mutant dichotomy. it remained a consistent and well-portrayed theme, imo. i think it just got too...messy for my tastes. but maybe it's just me.

I think we have a case of massively PIS in new avegers.

Fist: new avengers is one of best comics atm, IMO.

But...come on...im sure Reeed could create another earth (remember milar run ?) and teleport people from intersection earth for this new earth. Then, they could destroy the planet.

Or they could ask help to ex nihilo, or anything like that. Teleport people from a planet is not impossible to reed + strange + panther + tony with prep.

Another thing. Strange seek power to destroy a planet ? Why if he alredy destroyed a planet on panel without any boost ?

Originally posted by leonidas
if it were ONLY uncanny, or ONLY avengers, maybe, but all these timelines and alternate futures in ALL the main avengers titles?? too much imho.

I think it's a good opportunity to mention the reasons for me to be so tolerant towards Uncanny despite the glaring messyness of its overall plot.

First of all, I think that unlike Infinity and Hickman's Avengers it's a title that's more related with the classic Avengers instead of making them Justice League-lite or Fantastic Fourish. The arc features a rather complicated storyline, but included more grounded ideas such as the Avengers giving press conferences, having internal squabbles and focusing on the conflicts of existing characters instead of building just a big plot for the sake of it.

I think it's far from perfect but it's the most "Avengerish" book in the market right now, and it features a good amount of D-listers which is pretty good (I do grow tired of seeing Iron-man all the time). The overall plot could've benefited from a cleaner development, but at least it has some kind of pay off, unlike some convoluted arcs from the nineties I've read.

I don't understand Kang's ruse btw.

Couldn't he just have grabbed the axe, swung at a Celestial, drunk all of its delicious cosmic juices and started unleashing hell?

The fact that he waited and went through all that nonsense is the reason why he lost, because Havok and Sunfire were close enough to get some of the Celestial juice in 'em.

The retard-sue twins already killed a celestial. Why couldn't he just hang about then?

Originally posted by krisblaze
I don't understand Kang's ruse btw.

Couldn't he just have grabbed the axe, swung at a Celestial, drunk all of its delicious cosmic juices and started unleashing hell?

The fact that he waited and went through all that nonsense is the reason why he lost, because Havok and Sunfire were close enough to get some of the Celestial juice in 'em.

The retard-sue twins already killed a celestial. Why couldn't he just hang about then?

shrug it would have been too easy for kang...?

and i get what you're saying bentley. i actually agree with a lot of that. i liked wasp in the series tbh--brought them down to earth a little. the idea of selling their clothing line was pretty funny. i just think it could have done without so many of the twists. as kris pointed out, it really didn't make all that much sense. even kang's stance of trying to set things up in such a way that he was 'challenged' seems a bit of an unfulfilling take imo. i did enjoy it more than the gloomy new avengers and more than the even more convoluted avengers time bouncing arc....

the resolution was ridiculous. Earth heroes could probably send every energy absorber up there and spank Kang's ass.
Also I otally agree with Leo. Bring back some old fashioned story writen properly instead of all this unecessary back and forth

Originally posted by krisblaze
I don't understand Kang's ruse btw.

Couldn't he just have grabbed the axe, swung at a Celestial, drunk all of its delicious cosmic juices and started unleashing hell?

The fact that he waited and went through all that nonsense is the reason why he lost, because Havok and Sunfire were close enough to get some of the Celestial juice in 'em.

The retard-sue twins already killed a celestial. Why couldn't he just hang about then?

Kang is a time traveler, anytime you've seen a Celestial sleeping he could've picked the axe and killed it to the same result he just got. He's a character completely subject to his own whims.

Originally posted by Bentley
Kang is a time traveler, anytime you've seen a Celestial sleeping he could've picked the axe and killed it to the same result he just got. He's a character completely subject to his own whims.
Yeah, okay. I'm not unfamiliar with Kang or anything

It's just that Remender's not selling this story.

Kang made all these convoluted choices so that he would end up with a very, very low chance of keeping the power. I don't believe that Kang's desire for a challenge is the reason why it went down like this.

let's be honest: the 'kang arc' in uncanny avengers could have been much better than it was--it had enormous potential. however, it ultimately left much to be desired(so many unexplained 'plot-points'), and ended so abruptly that it was almost laughable.

Originally posted by Galan007
let's be honest: the 'kang arc' in uncanny avengers could have been much better than it was--it had enormous potential. however, it ultimately left much to be desired(so many unexplained 'plot-points'), and ended so abruptly that it was almost laughable.

Yeah, it had nice ideas but it promised a lot and delievered much less.

i still like the overall idea for the book though and will stick with it for a while. less sure about the other avengers books tbh.

Indeed.

The only thing I can say I was really satisfied with is Havok and Wasp.

Their portrayal was good.

yeah, them hooking up was a bit unexpected but i thought it worked pretty well. lol but really? poor kang.... all the work of some 20 issues then it gets busted up in less than half a book. oi. may be interesting to see what happens to sunfire and what his new power level is going to be. i also hope they try and clarify a little bit just what wanda is and isn't capable of. her power level is such a convenient plot device and it's as confusing as sh!t!

just finished new avengers. in doing some research for my bz with phil, i read over some older avengers books from the time namor was an avengers. i also have most of namor's solo series' and even some of the old invaders.

i utterly and in all ways DESPISE what new avengers has made namor into.... the first and mightiest mutant, one of marvel's original heroes and he's a murderous a$$hole who suddenly hates...seemingly everything and is apparently beyond any redemption. f u marvel.

We ever going to get closer with Validator?

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j165/A_Flight10/valdiator_zps52f21380.png

Originally posted by leonidas
just finished new avengers. in doing some research for my bz with phil, i read over some older avengers books from the time namor was an avengers. i also have most of namor's solo series' and even some of the old invaders.

i utterly and in all ways DESPISE what new avengers has made namor into.... the first and mightiest mutant, one of marvel's original heroes and he's a murderous a$$hole who suddenly hates...seemingly everything and is apparently beyond any redemption. f u marvel.

In Namor's defense he had ordererd the Atlanteeans to not attack Wakanda, a difficult enough task in its own right, and offered them an olive branch of peace. And then Black Panther doesn't even inform him of the sneak-attack that basically tore Atlantis apart.

They're turning him into a real bastard, but I'm honestly on his side in this conflict. Maybe this means that I'm as much of a monster as he is

hrm, yeah, i can see your point. i guess he just seems to be such a b!tch in the series is all. he really hasn't contributed much of anything. tbh i can't understand why he's even a member. he's had very few good showings (none?) in the series. since the whole p5 debacle he just seems.....directionless. and that last issue where bp seemed to have the drop on him just made it even worse and he seriously seems to have gone round the bend. seems like they are heading towards making him a villain--which isn't new for him, but his character really seems to have suffered over the course of the last couple years imo and i'd love to see a redemption story, or at LEAST see him kick bp's a$$.

on bp--i feel marvel has done the same thing for him that they did for iron fist, namely push him needlessly above his station. he (like iron fist at one time) was among my faves. now he's turned from solid high street to walking plot device high META, taking down black dwarf 1on1. marvel has a way of powering up characters who were just FINE the way they were. thanos is the ultimate example. ironic then that NAMOR hasn't undergone any such change, aside from character issues. if someone was deserving of a power push, it would be cool to see namor somehow get one.

^Your comment about the post P5 namor being directionless applies to Marvel as a whole

I agree that they're showing their hand a bit much when it comes to possibly making Namor a villain. He's so far beyond that role at this point. All his years in the F4 comics, and even the recent stuff in his own miniseries, Brubaker's Winter-Soldier series and the new Defenders stuff just paints the picture of a character who's developed beyond all that nonsense. Hickman should know better!

I also agree with BP, though I always feel like he's had something of a jobber-aura. I always liked T'challa, but I really, really hated the new run with his sister or whatever. I think Iron Fist and BP are slightly different though, as Iron Fist was just Faction going off as he does at times (and writing a decent comic as he seldom does ), whereas Black Panther's just being taken to unreasonable heights without anything tangible backing him. He's turning into a gary-stu real fast at this point

on less of a downer note here are a couple discussion topics to keep the thread going in between issues:

1. if you could pick a team of 7 avengers, who would they be? they can be any group of characters, past or present and they do not need to have been on the team before.

my own team would be this: hercules, gladiator, wasp, pym, cap, iron man and a psi, but the ones i'd like most have been f'd by being depowered. i'd love to see x-man get some spotlight, or emma. emma and jan would have some hilarious interactions imo.

2. which character has benefited most do you think from their time in the avengers?

3. worst idea for an avenger ever? or just your least favourite avenger?

4. fave avengers arc of all time?

just some things to try and keep the thread from falling.

lol triple post ftw! i just read the new avengers book as well. does ANYONE have any idea at all what the EFF is going on in that series?? i seem to have completely lost the thread of the story. i did find it....odd that the bomb in cap was able to disable a computer being some 40 000 years more advanced than where it came from.....the visions of the future were interesting but each was so damn bleak, richards appearance aside.... sooooo confusing.

Originally posted by leonidas
on less of a downer note here are a couple discussion topics to keep the thread going in between issues:

1. if you could pick a team of 7 avengers, who would they be? they can be any group of characters, past or present and they do not need to have been on the team before.

my own team would be this: hercules, gladiator, wasp, pym, cap, iron man and a psi, but the ones i'd like most have been f'd by being depowered. i'd love to see x-man get some spotlight, or emma. emma and jan would have some hilarious interactions imo.

2. which character has benefited most do you think from their time in the avengers?

3. worst idea for an avenger ever? or just your least favourite avenger?

4. fave avengers arc of all time?

just some things to try and keep the thread from falling.

1. Thor, Ironman, Vision, Wanda, Cap, Quasar and Moondragon or Mantis. With their combined powers they can face prety much anything

2. Hawkeye - he has become somewhat of a synonym to an avenger

3. D - man

4. Vol 3. when Avengers unite again to face Morgana le Fay (can't remember exact name) or the Kree - Skrul war

i'll repost this here, because i think the topic can certainly spark some good conversation...

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Oh yeah, I've got one: Who the **** is "Rabum Alal"? Originally posted by Galan007
i've got a theory on what this entity is, as i believe that ALL of hickman's work these past few years will ultimately be connected(franklin richards continuously popping up is a glaring sign of that connection--he's the linchpin to it all, imo)...

anywho, per black swan: "at the birth of rabum alal, the early death of everything began" she also stated: "rabum alal... he is impatient and his appetite endless." this is important because back in F4 #600, reed and sue had a conversation with galactus, who stated that the being inside the galactus seed is: "an aberration... eternity seeking to correct something that is not flawed." sue then asked galactus if the being inside the seed would be better than himself. galactus replied: it would not--it would be immature, lacking restraint, and "everything would end... sooner."

that being said, i believe this 'rabum alal' is the being inside the galactus seed. perhaps on an alternate universe, the seed hatched and released the thing inside, which led to the destruction of said universe--and the cascading effect is causing the incursions/'early death of everything'.


to me, this is a sound theory. all of hickman's 'moves' thus far have been extremely calculated and well thought out. i believe the events transpiring in avengers will mark the crescendo of all his efforts.

^oh hell yes

Originally posted by leonidas
hrm, yeah, i can see your point. i guess he just seems to be such a b!tch in the series is all. he really hasn't contributed much of anything. tbh i can't understand why he's even a member. he's had very few good showings (none?) in the series. since the whole p5 debacle he just seems.....directionless. and that last issue where bp seemed to have the drop on him just made it even worse and he seriously seems to have gone round the bend. seems like they are heading towards making him a villain--which isn't new for him, but his character really seems to have suffered over the course of the last couple years imo and i'd love to see a redemption story, or at LEAST see him kick bp's a$$.

on bp--i feel marvel has done the same thing for him that they did for iron fist, namely push him needlessly above his station. he (like iron fist at one time) was among my faves. now he's turned from solid high street to walking plot device high META, taking down black dwarf 1on1. marvel has a way of powering up characters who were just FINE the way they were. thanos is the ultimate example. ironic then that NAMOR hasn't undergone any such change, aside from character issues. if someone was deserving of a power push, it would be cool to see namor somehow get one.
BP beat Black Dwarf on a 1v1?

^Yeah he ****ing destroyed her.

One punch basically.

Originally posted by krisblaze
^oh hell yes you think it makes sense?

Originally posted by leonidas
1. if you could pick a team of 7 avengers, who would they be? they can be any group of characters, past or present and they do not need to have been on the team before.


My seven would be: Hawkeye, Pym, Wasp, Black Knight, Vision, Hercules and Wiccan. Hilarity insues.


Originally posted by leonidas
2. which character has benefited most do you think from their time in the avengers?.


Luke Cage.


Originally posted by leonidas
3. worst idea for an avenger ever? or just your least favourite avenger?


Probably Doctor Strange, I love the character but he makes for a poor Avenger.


Originally posted by leonidas
4. fave avengers arc of all time?


Iron-Lad, because he's actually Kang

In truth is Pym

Anyone reading Avengers World?

I was wondering what's up with Black Knight right now. Also, could anyone get me scans of the cameo of Kang/Immortus in Avengers 34?

i follow a-world here and there... not consistently, though.

i *think* this is the kang/immortus scene you're looking for:
http://s5d2.turboimagehost.com/t1/19911896_Avengers_2012-_034-008.jpg http://s5d2.turboimagehost.com/t1/19911898_Avengers_2012-_034-009.jpg

Thanks Galan.

anyone been following avengers undercover? really good stuff i think. i really like nico. death locket is coming into her own as well....

damn, undercover is over?? too bad. i really liked the book. if you didn't check out arena and undercover, it's worth it imo. hope we see the characters around. nico in particular has become a beast. taking on hellstrom is a great feat.

I'm having a hard time getting into Hickman's Avengers.

I disliked Infinity and the comic before that, and even now with issue 35 and 36 I feel like it's just 20 pages of nonsense.

Remender pulls stuff out of his behind but I'm still loving his comics. Hickman's stuff seems more carefully planned but just completely falls flat when executed.

Originally posted by krisblaze
I'm having a hard time getting into Hickman's Avengers.

I disliked Infinity and the comic before that, and even now with issue 35 and 36 I feel like it's just 20 pages of nonsense.

Remender pulls stuff out of his behind but I'm still loving his comics. Hickman's stuff seems more carefully planned but just completely falls flat when executed.

Hickman's an ideas guy. He has lots of ideas in his head all playing out in huge scales of space and time - but he isn't really a good enough writer to make it all come alive and actually matter enough to make people care. Maybe he would work better teamed with a co-writer to flesh it all out better.

so, this whole count down thing from 8 months.....? not really working for me. i keep asking myself--why do i keep reading? not sure. guess i keep waiting for the payoff in avengers. still can't get over how the multiverse is ending but the whole story is relegated to one avengers books. makes no sense to me at all. this events have a feel of an event worthy arc, but we just get the unending arc in one avengers book. seems to demean the significance to me....

uncanny? i like that mags finally killed the skull. not sure exactly how onslaught was released though. he was a combo of xavier AND mags so......? anyone have any idea how that happened?? i like how they build it up too--releasing the greatest threat EVER to the marvel u.

anyone have any interest in the axis?? another avengers/x-men crossover already seems like....overkill to me. not sure how following up to the apoc twins arc and 'killing' everyone can be topped so quickly. wish the books would actually slow down for a bit.

ironman is also an avengers related books as well, and i have to say i liked the iron metropolitan idea. is it weird to anyone else how powerful the rings are being portrayed though?? mandy was NEVER that powerful and he certainly didn't talk to them like they were little all-knowing computers.... i was extremely disappointed when i learned malekith was the big guy behind the collection of the rings though. malekith?? what an odd and....dumb choice for an ironman villain. boo....

anyone following avengers world? can't decide if i want to go back and read it from the start. how is it in comparison to the other avengers books?

SPOILERS:











so, FINALLY some progression in the plot!!! the new new avengers (27) was actually pretty damn good. strange is obviously an absolute and total beast now (in the future??). seems like alal and the ivory kings are to blame for the incursions and now it's going to turn into a classic battle to take them out. looking forward to seeing rabum alal and the kings. obviously they are pretty damn powerful, curious to see HOW powerful given what strange seems able to do now.

it took far too long imo to get to this point, but i'm hoping now we will see some speedier plot development (i mean, really, wtf was the point of having thanos and the cabal even IN this arc?? too much extraneous material, not enough focus on moving things forward imo....)

Originally posted by krisblaze
I'm having a hard time getting into Hickman's Avengers.

I disliked Infinity and the comic before that, and even now with issue 35 and 36 I feel like it's just 20 pages of nonsense.

Remender pulls stuff out of his behind but I'm still loving his comics. Hickman's stuff seems more carefully planned but just completely falls flat when executed.

you still think it's flat? i think some recent plot advancements are helping. it's taken FAR FAR too long to reach this point though. the whole working backwards in time thing is too confusing to be effective for me. it only adds more confusion to a plot that was already hard to follow. captain america's jaunt through time where he saw franklin was just ridiculous imo. i will say i'm eager to see who/what is behind the whole incursion event thing though. judging by the time frame we still have a few months left before that happens though....

this events (the incursions) seem EVENT worthy. i can't believe life just keeps going on in all the other books with all these incursions going on. something so big seems like it should be WORTHY of an event--and it's rare when something at marvel seems worthy nowadays. this is by far and away, the single longest comic arc i've ever come across though--some 30+ issues in i think and we're really not close to the end yet. i can't explain how stupid i think that is.... at this point it has become IMPOSSIBLE for the payoff to be big enough to make up for this mess.