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Malgus as of SWTOR, during his (very short) reign as the False Emperor, versus TCW Maul and Savage Opress S5. Battle takes place on a cloud in the sky.

Malgus wins. He lightning or TK's Savage then overpowers Maul.

Malgus

Lol.

Maul & Savage

Originally posted by Selenial
Lol.

Maul & Savage
Darth Malgus, at his prime, is tremendously powerful. At his prime, he contended for the position of Sith Emperor which is virtually impossible for most.

You recall the oneness in the dark side development? Malgus experienced major power boost since that development.

Savage's armor gives him great protection against the force, and both brothers have shown incredible pain resistance

They'd press Malgus via the blade before he could properly result to force powers, and we've seen a lot that in a duel he'll get tunnel vision and forget the force.

And don't bring up TFE, Bioware specifically left it in so that if you appeared to Malgus alone, he'd comment on YOUR character (IE, talk about being Wrath, congratulate on Dark Council etc) So we really don't know.

Nah, Malgus just Maelstroms them both through the cloud.

Also, no matter what a group consisting of all four people, from either side, went to take on Malgus. The False Emperor is completely valid. No matter what, he's a strong combatant.

Originally posted by Selenial
Savage's armor gives him great protection against the force, and both brothers have shown incredible pain resistance

They'd press Malgus via the blade before he could properly result to force powers, and we've seen a lot that in a duel he'll get tunnel vision and forget the force.

And Malgus' lightning is capable of burning through a torso even after overwhelming the lightsaber defense of a powerful Jedi. And his lightning vastly improved after that point. His lightning would knock out or kill Savage. Their pain tolerance is irrelevant. If Malgus actually wounds one it's game over.

Lolwut? Malgus used the Force in his duel with Satele, his fight against the Zabrak Jedi in The Third Lesson, in his assualt on the Jedi Temple, in both his duels against Aryn Leneer and in his fight with Adraas. That's like 80% of all his fights. Malgus regularly utilises the Force in a fight and doesn't suffer from tunnel vision. If anything Maul and Savage have that disadvantage since both are hardcore warriors.

Originally posted by Selenial
Savage's armor gives him great protection against the force, and both brothers have shown incredible pain resistance

They'd press Malgus via the blade before he could properly result to force powers, and we've seen a lot that in a duel he'll get tunnel vision and forget the force.

And don't bring up TFE, Bioware specifically left it in so that if you appeared to Malgus alone, he'd comment on YOUR character (IE, talk about being Wrath, congratulate on Dark Council etc) So we really don't know.
Malgus's powers are too much for the brothers to handle. He tolerated direct missile hits, destroyed powerful Jedi with his lightning powers alone, cast aside tons of debris away from him while being heavily injured, defeated some of the greatest Jedi in battles, single-handedly routed Republic forces in some battles, and survived in situations that would be impossible for most. These feats are before Malgus achieved Oneness like condition.

Even as a swordsman, Maglus have subdued some opponents with incredible martial abilities.

Malgus's battlefield feats have never been duplicated according to Darth (freaking) Sidious himself who have history with Darth Plagueis, Darth Vader, Count Dooku, Darth Maul, Savage Opress and Assaj Ventress.

Malgus is simply too powerful for this duo. His Force Maelstrom abilities will be too much for the duo to contend with.

Originally posted by Nephthys
And Malgus' lightning is capable of burning through a torso even after overwhelming the lightsaber defense of a powerful Jedi. And his lightning vastly improved after that point. His lightning would knock out or kill Savage. Their pain tolerance is irrelevant. If Malgus actually wounds one it's game over.

Lolwut? Malgus used the Force in his duel with Satele, his fight against the Zabrak Jedi in The Third Lesson, in his assualt on the Jedi Temple, in both his duels against Aryn Leneer and in his fight with Adraas. That's like 80% of all his fights. Malgus regularly utilises the Force in a fight and doesn't suffer from tunnel vision. If anything Maul and Savage have that disadvantage since both are hardcore warriors.

Yes he used the force, but did he constantly try push his opponents back so he could play on this advantage? No, it was few and far between.

Originally posted by Selenial
Yes he used the force, but did he constantly try push his opponents back so he could play on this advantage? No, it was few and far between.

In tough fights he uses it at optimal moments to give himself an advantage. So for like Satele, Zallow and Aryn he couldn't straight up overpower them but used it to push them back and give himself the advantage at certain moments. In his fight against the Zabrak Jedi he states that he could overpower the guy at any point but wanted a satisfying saber kill. When he had enough though he ended it with one lightning attack. Similarly when he achieved his darkside enlightenment against Aryn he instantly pwned her with lightning. He also tossed around Adraas with the Force multiple times to show off his dominance.

Against people like Maul and Savage whom he can overpower with TK and Lightning, I see no reason why he would hold back. Besides, I tend not to take characters personalities into account in these threads. If the character can overpower their opponent with the Force, I argue they can in the thread.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Against people like Maul and Savage whom he can overpower with TK
http://r19.imgfast.net/users/1916/39/10/06/smiles/2860309752.gif http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111114474/3759314-savage+and+maul+force+push+army.png

I like that chicks outfit. Purple and gold? Nice.

I'm going with the Maul Brothers, they gave Obi-Wan some difficulty a few times and would've killed him had it not been for him using Adi Gallia's lightsaber. though Obi doesn't compare to Malgus in terms of Raw power, the maul brother are powerful combatants. I feel like the SoD comic will elevate Maul to a whole new level - same thing goes for Talzin.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
I'm going with the Maul Brothers, they gave Obi-Wan some difficulty a few times and would've killed him had it not been for him using Adi Gallia's lightsaber. though Obi doesn't compare to Malgus in terms of Raw power, the maul brother are powerful combatants. I feel like the SoD comic will elevate Maul to a whole new level - same thing goes for Talzin.

"I think the bothers win because they lost to an inferior opponent and might get good feats in the future."

Obi-Wan won because of the setting, anyway, not because he had two lightsabers. The setting here puts them at an extreme disadvantage. http://r26.imgfast.net/users/2613/36/14/96/smiles/3177439056.gif

No kidding. Malgus pushes one of them off the cloud and its gg. And he can do that.

Originally posted by Nephthys
"I think the bothers win because they lost to an inferior opponent and might get good feats in the future."

LOL That is how it sounds like. But still Obi only won Because of Jar'Kai had he not he might've died imo. also i forgot to add that in a lightsaber only fight Malgus would probably die.

I assume they have cloudwalk cast on them.

The brothers win.

Either side has a chance, I'd think. Likely edge to Malgus.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Darth Malgus, at his prime, is tremendously powerful. At his prime, he contended for the position of Sith Emperor which is virtually impossible for most.

You recall the oneness in the dark side development? Malgus experienced major power boost since that development. So did Baras, so did the DC twice.

Did they succeed? No.

My bet is on the Maul Brothers. For one Maul is the superior duelist, and was capable of fighting for a brief time against Darth Sidious, which points to tremendous speed. He'll get in close and push Malgus on the back foot.

Alone, Malgus vs Maul is a fight. Savage seals the deal. He can tank Malgus' lightning, and offer support to his brother. His powerful strikes will combined with Maul's sheer skill will be enough to overwhelm Malgus.

EDIT: I'd say if Savage were not here, Malgus would win. But Savage is here and he makes up for Maul's slack.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
http://r19.imgfast.net/users/1916/39/10/06/smiles/2860309752.gif http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111114474/3759314-savage+and+maul+force+push+army.png Impressive, most impressive.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
My bet is on the Maul Brothers. For one Maul is the superior duelist, and was capable of fighting for a brief time against Darth Sidious, which points to tremendous speed. He'll get in close and push Malgus on the back foot.

Alone, Malgus vs Maul is a fight. Savage seals the deal. He can tank Malgus' lightning, and offer support to his brother. His powerful strikes will combined with Maul's sheer skill will be enough to overwhelm Malgus.

EDIT: I'd say if Savage were not here, Malgus would win. But Savage is here and he makes up for Maul's slack.

Sidious was going easy on Maul. In the book he increases his speed at the end beyond what Maul can contend with. Besides, you only need Dooku level speed to contend with Sidious for a brief time, and I'd say Malgus has it.

Savage can't tank Malgus' lightning. So theres that right away. Secondly, Maul and Savage likely won't even be able to engage Malgus before one of them is taken out with the Force.

Whats to stop Malgus from unleashing the same wave he did at the start of his False Emperor fight and push them both off the cloud?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Sidious was going easy on Maul. In the book he increases his speed at the end beyond what Maul can contend with. Besides, you only need Dooku level speed to contend with Sidious for a brief time, and I'd say Malgus has it.

Savage can't tank Malgus' lightning. So theres that right away. Secondly, Maul and Savage likely won't even be able to engage Malgus before one of them is taken out with the Force.

Whats to stop Malgus from unleashing the same wave he did at the start of his False Emperor fight and push them both off the cloud? 1. Going easy on Maul is still fast, and he moved fast enough to require a pause for breath.

2. Maul manages to land a blow on Sidious.

3. Sidious is infinitely more powerful than Malgus.

Dooku could contend with Malgus for a lot more than a short time, Dooku contended with Yoda for quite a long time, so I fail to see your point there. Maul is probably faster than Dooku. And Malgus is weaker than Yoda, so Maul isn't going to have a hard time keeping up with him. And then his dueling abilities and Savage's help he can win.

Savage got up from successive bursts from Dooku's lightning, and was able to levitate dozens of stone pillars while being shocked by lightning. He's endurance abilities are immense and can easily withstand a shock or a blast from Malgus without going unconscious.

Unless you actually have a precedence for this.

Lol wait this battle takes place on a cloud? Okay finding it hard to still take you seriously. All three of them fall through the cloud and plunge to their deaths.

Draw. /debate

EDIT: Oh my bad you are not the OP, Supremeskillz... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxjSuQXPAak

Originally posted by Beniboybling
1. Going easy on Maul is still fast, and he moved fast enough to require a pause for breath.

2. Maul manages to land a blow on Sidious.

3. Sidious is infinitely more powerful than Malgus.

Dooku could contend with Malgus for a lot more than a short time, Dooku contended with Yoda for quite a long time, so I fail to see your point there. Maul is probably faster than Dooku. And Malgus is weaker than Yoda, so Maul isn't going to have a hard time keeping up with him. And then his dueling abilities and Savage's help he can win.

Savage got up from successive bursts from Dooku's lightning, and was able to levitate dozens of stone pillars while being shocked by lightning. He's endurance abilities are immense and can easily withstand a shock or a blast from Malgus without going unconscious.

Unless you actually have a precedence for this.

Lol wait this battle takes place on a cloud? Okay finding it hard to still take you seriously. All three of them fall through the cloud and plunge to their deaths.

Draw. /debate

EDIT: Oh my bad you are not the OP, Supremeskillz... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxjSuQXPAak

1. But how fast? Savage was also "keeping" up with him. Is Savage faster than **** too? That Sidious was going easy on them makes it impossible to suggest they were keeping up through their own speed as opposed to Sidious moving slowly enough for them to compete to make it interesting. He paused for breath after doing a backwards cartwheel. Sidious is old, he probably just pulled something or was showing off a bit too much.

2. When he's berserk with anger of Savage's death, which would give him a big anger boost. Also Sidious overpowers him as soon as he does this.

3. I wouldn't say infinitely. Malgus would give a good fight. Better than Maul and Savage did at least.

Maul isn't faster than Dooku. Maul isn't even faster than Obi-Wan. And I never suggested that Malgus would take Maul out in lightsabers in a short time. Malgus has defeated Aryn Leneer though, who has many similar feats as Maul does. So I don't think Maul would beat him in a lighstaber duel. But I never suggested Malgus would beat them in sabers. I only suggested he would win via the Force.

Malgus' lightning is more powerful and destructive than Dooku's is. I do have a precedent, as I wrote on the last page. Malgus bruned through a Jedi's torso while contending with his lightsaber defense. And he grew vastly more powerful after this point. His lightning would incapacitate or kill Savage.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
EDIT: Oh my bad you are not the OP, Supremeskillz... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxjSuQXPAak

http://r26.imgfast.net/users/2613/36/14/96/smiles/1724109101.gif

Just say they can walk on clouds.

I didn't think that needed to be said. http://r26.imgfast.net/users/2613/36/14/96/smiles/443241481.gif

Although, Malgus could survive the fall anyway so he'd still win.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
So did Baras, so did the DC twice.

Did they succeed? No.
Baras experienced Oneness with the dark side? DC?

Succeed against whom?

I am not getting this point.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
My bet is on the Maul Brothers. For one Maul is the superior duelist, and was capable of fighting for a brief time against Darth Sidious, which points to tremendous speed. He'll get in close and push Malgus on the back foot.
Maul is superior duelist based on what?

Malgus slaughtered Kao Cen Darach, disarmed Satele Shan, slaughtered Ven Zallow and held his own against Aryn Leener. All of these opponents have demonstrated exceptional swordsmanship.

Lasting briefly against Sidious isn't a display of great skill, IMO. Luke skywalker, as of DE, outdueled Sidious at his greatest strength.

You talk about speed? Satele Shan is stated to be unbelievably fast, yet Malgus disarmed her. Aryn Leener also have insane speed feats, yet Malgus contended with her.

Maul isn't pushing Malgus back. Did you see what Malgus did to Kao Cen Darach?

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Alone, Malgus vs Maul is a fight. Savage seals the deal. He can tank Malgus' lightning, and offer support to his brother. His powerful strikes will combined with Maul's sheer skill will be enough to overwhelm Malgus.
Maul is not a match for Malgus, he will not last long against him.

Savage will tank Malgus's lightning? Malgus once destroyed a Jedi with his lightning storm who was powerful enough to collapse two buildings simultaneously. Malgus also one-shot Aryn Leener with his lightning storm when he got really angry at her.

Malgus will destroy Savage with his lightning.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
EDIT: I'd say if Savage were not here, Malgus would win. But Savage is here and he makes up for Maul's slack.
Malgus would defeat this duo, he is that good.

Originally posted by Nephthys
1. But how fast? Savage was also "keeping" up with him. Is Savage faster than **** too? That Sidious was going easy on them makes it impossible to suggest they were keeping up through their own speed as opposed to Sidious moving slowly enough for them to compete to make it interesting. He paused for breath after doing a backwards cartwheel. Sidious is old, he probably just pulled something or was showing off a bit too much.

2. When he's berserk with anger of Savage's death, which would give him a big anger boost. Also Sidious overpowers him as soon as he does this.

3. I wouldn't say infinitely. Malgus would give a good fight. Better than Maul and Savage did at least.

Maul isn't faster than Dooku. Maul isn't even faster than Obi-Wan. And I never suggested that Malgus would take Maul out in lightsabers in a short time. Malgus has defeated Aryn Leneer though, who has many similar feats as Maul does. So I don't think Maul would beat him in a lighstaber duel. But I never suggested Malgus would beat them in sabers. I only suggested he would win via the Force.

Malgus' lightning is more powerful and destructive than Dooku's is. I do have a precedent, as I wrote on the last page. Malgus bruned through a Jedi's torso while contending with his lightsaber defense. And he grew vastly more powerful after this point. His lightning would incapacitate or kill Savage. 1. Savage was no way keeping up with Sidious. As soon as Maul got floored Sidious killed him and it explicit states in the novel that he was just too fast.

The only reason I assume that Maul could keep up with Sidious was because he wasn't schooled in this way and actually managed to land a blow on Sidious.

And Sidious can empower himself with the Force, he doesn't tire that easily.

Anyway considering Malgus is not Sidious, it doesn't really matter than Maul was not able to go toe-to-toe, being able to stand against Sidious even for a brief time is an impressive feat.

2. It had better be, Maul shouldn't be faster enough in normal terms to land a blow on he who speed blitzed the greatest duelists in the Jedi Order.

3. I mean it hyperbolic, what I mean is Sidious is so out of Malgus' lead that Sidious would probably slap him down like a punk. Sure he'd do better than Maul and Savage but lets be real they didn't do that well and at any time Sidious could have Force Choked them out and be done with it.

Maul's powers rival Dooku's, I'd say he could be faster than him, and yeah Maul is definitely faster than Kenobi lol.

Not sure why your comparing Leener's lightsaber abilities to Maul's. Maul may be comparable in terms of Force Power, but as Kas'im would say you can make up for that through exceptional bladework. Indeed the gap between Kas'im and Bane in that duel isn't likely that larger than the gap between Maul and Malgus. And regardless of the fact that Malgus is likely a better duelist Bane was quite royally schooled. I expect Malgus would have quite a hard time against such a master duelist.

Without Savage I would give it to Malgus, superior Force Powers would win out. But Savage is a game changer because he keeps Malgus on the back foot. It is harder for him to chain Force attacks because he's too busy fending of an exceptional duelist and a powerhouse working in perfect sync. And even if he managed to he's only going to be able to take out one brother. Two handed Force Powers are just a no no.

And that leaves the other, be it Savage or Maul, to exploit the opening Malgus leaves with a Force-based attack of their own. Or at the very least keep Malgus occupied while the other brother recovers. It is this kind of tag-teaming that will keep Malgus on the back foot, preventing him from properly using his Force-powers. And with that advantage superior bladework will win out I feel.

As I side note I'd add that numbers advantage gives Maul and Savage an advantage in Force powers, one of them can afford to drop their guard and launch a Force-based attack because the other will cover. And with Malgus momentarily stunned and a distance made between them they can chain an attack together like this and really get him on the back foot.

P.S. Yes Malgus lightining is stronger than Dooku's. But as I said if he can withstand multiple blasts of Dooku's lightning, even use Force powers while doing so, he can withstand one blast from Malgus. And that will be all Maul will give him. This isn't going to be like Ventress & Savage vs Dooku, because Maul unlike Ventress can pin Malgus down.

And the more pain Savage endures, the stronger he gets.

You are definitely going to need to provide prove that Malgus can one shot Savage Opress lol. Savage was an incredibly powerful Force user.

How does this always turn into such big debates. g007-psyduck

Originally posted by Nephthys
How does this always turn into such big debates. g007-psyduck My bad, but it just happened.

Feel free to respond in brief.

Or you could just ignore me.

Originally posted by Nephthys
How does this always turn into such big debates. g007-psyduck


Destroy the Sith, you must.

I'm going with Malgus. It wouldn't be too hard for him to take out Savage with the force and Maul by himself is not a big match for Malgus.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
1. Savage was no way keeping up with Sidious. As soon as Maul got floored Sidious killed him and it explicit states in the novel that he was just too fast.

The only reason I assume that Maul could keep up with Sidious was because he wasn't schooled in this way and actually managed to land a blow on Sidious.

And Sidious can empower himself with the Force, he doesn't tire that easily.

Anyway considering Malgus is not Sidious, it doesn't really matter than Maul was not able to go toe-to-toe, being able to stand against Sidious even for a brief time is an impressive feat.

Savage "landed a blow" on Sidious too, remember. Sidious was too fast for Savage yes, and he was too fast for Maul as well which is also explicitly stated in the novel.

Nah, Maul was being schooled as well.

I know, but a backwards cartwheel is still something an old man isn't gonna pull off grinning. Sidious' expression always seemed to me to be something like "shit, maybe not do that again."

And? You act as if Malgus wouldn't do the same in his place. It isn't something that suggests Maul is better than Malgus, which is what you're trying to establish. Fighting a Sidious who's going easy on him isn't that impressive.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
2. It had better be, Maul shouldn't be faster enough in normal terms to land a blow on he who speed blitzed the greatest duelists in the Jedi Order.

Agreed.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
3. I mean it hyperbolic, what I mean is Sidious is so out of Malgus' lead that Sidious would probably slap him down like a punk. Sure he'd do better than Maul and Savage but lets be real they didn't do that well and at any time Sidious could have Force Choked them out and be done with it.

Sidious wouldn't slap him down like a punk. Malgus is only a tier lower than him and as I said, could put up a decent fight. I doubt Sidious could ragdoll him.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Maul's powers rival Dooku's, I'd say he could be faster than him, and yeah Maul is definitely faster than Kenobi lol.

Maul is stated to be less powerful than Dooku and lol no he's not faster than Kenobi. He's not held the advantage in any of their CW duels barring the first and Kenobi humiliated him and Savage at the same time. Dooku is comfortably Kenobi's superior.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Not sure why your comparing Leener's lightsaber abilities to Maul's. Maul may be comparable in terms of Force Power, but as Kas'im would say you can make up for that through exceptional bladework. Indeed the gap between Kas'im and Bane in that duel isn't likely that larger than the gap between Maul and Malgus. And regardless of the fact that Malgus is likely a better duelist Bane was quite royally schooled. I expect Malgus would have quite a hard time against such a master duelist.

In raw speed, power and strength Leneer is very similar, is what I said. And Malgus was even with her even before his huge improvement following his epiphany. Afterwards I'd say he's superior to Maul.

That Kas'im comparison is a false one. Bane was defeating Kas'im in straight combat. It took Kas'im to pull out a lightsaber style Bane had absolutely no knowledge on to turn the tides. That's how exceptional bladework can triumph. Maul can't do that to Malgus though, so it's irrelevant to point out.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Without Savage I would give it to Malgus, superior Force Powers would win out. But Savage is a game changer because he keeps Malgus on the back foot. It is harder for him to chain Force attacks because he's too busy fending of an exceptional duelist and a powerhouse working in perfect sync. And even if he managed to he's only going to be able to take out one brother. Two handed Force Powers are just a no no.

Like he kept Dooku on the back foot? Malgus will school him with lightning.

I will point out that Malgus is capable to bringing the Imperial Strike Team to its knees with lightning and can toss both strike teams back with TK. It's not as if overpowering multiple strong Force users is beyond him.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
And that leaves the other, be it Savage or Maul, to exploit the opening Malgus leaves with a Force-based attack of their own. Or at the very least keep Malgus occupied while the other brother recovers. It is this kind of tag-teaming that will keep Malgus on the back foot, preventing him from properly using his Force-powers. And with that advantage superior bladework will win out I feel.

As I side note I'd add that numbers advantage gives Maul and Savage an advantage in Force powers, one of them can afford to drop their guard and launch a Force-based attack because the other will cover. And with Malgus momentarily stunned and a distance made between them they can chain an attack together like this and really get him on the back foot.

Blah blah, you're scripting the fight.

Malgus is the superior duelist in my opinion anyway, due to his greater power. And you're assuming the brothers would get a chance to recover. Remember that they're on a cloud, Malgus could just push them off.

Even together I doubt they'd exceed or match Malgus' power. Malgus overpowered a Jedi who collapsed 2 buildings at once with TK. And his thoughts suggest he could have overwhelmed him in TK.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
P.S. Yes Malgus lightining is stronger than Dooku's. But as I said if he can withstand multiple blasts of Dooku's lightning, even use Force powers while doing so, he can withstand one blast from Malgus. And that will be all Maul will give him. This isn't going to be like Ventress & Savage vs Dooku, because Maul unlike Ventress can pin Malgus down.

And the more pain Savage endures, the stronger he gets.

You are definitely going to need to provide prove that Malgus can one shot Savage Opress lol. Savage was an incredibly powerful Force user.

It's not as if Dooku's lightning is cumulative. If Savage can tank one blast from it it only makes sense he can tank multiple blasts of the same level of power.But Malgus' lightning will exceed Savage's ability to tank in a single blast and take him out. It's like you're suggesting that because his armor tanked multiple blaster bolts that it can tank a cannon fire. It doesn't work that way.

Unless that pain kills him or he gets knocked out.

So was Aryn Leneer and guess what? Malgus one-shot her after he achieved Oneness with the darkside.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Savage "landed a blow" on Sidious too, remember. Sidious was too fast for Savage yes, and he was too fast for Maul as well which is also explicitly stated in the novel.

Nah, Maul was being schooled as well.

I know, but a backwards cartwheel is still something an old man isn't gonna pull off grinning. Sidious' expression always seemed to me to be something like "shit, maybe not do that again."

And? You act as if Malgus wouldn't do the same in his place. It isn't something that suggests Maul is better than Malgus, which is what you're trying to establish. Fighting a Sidious who's going easy on him isn't that impressive.



Agreed.



Sidious wouldn't slap him down like a punk. Malgus is only a tier lower than him and as I said, could put up a decent fight. I doubt Sidious could ragdoll him.



Maul is stated to be less powerful than Dooku and lol no he's not faster than Kenobi. He's not held the advantage in any of their CW duels barring the first and Kenobi humiliated him and Savage at the same time. Dooku is comfortably Kenobi's superior.



In raw speed, power and strength Leneer is very similar, is what I said. And Malgus was even with her even before his huge improvement following his epiphany. Afterwards I'd say he's superior to Maul.

That Kas'im comparison is a false one. Bane was defeating Kas'im in straight combat. It took Kas'im to pull out a lightsaber style Bane had absolutely no knowledge on to turn the tides. That's how exceptional bladework can triumph. Maul can't do that to Malgus though, so it's irrelevant to point out.



Like he kept Dooku on the back foot? Malgus will school him with lightning.

I will point out that Malgus is capable to bringing the Imperial Strike Team to its knees with lightning and can toss both strike teams back with TK. It's not as if overpowering multiple strong Force users is beyond him.



Blah blah, you're scripting the fight.

Malgus is the superior duelist in my opinion anyway, due to his greater power. And you're assuming the brothers would get a chance to recover. Remember that they're on a cloud, Malgus could just push them off.

Even together I doubt they'd exceed or match Malgus' power. Malgus overpowered a Jedi who collapsed 2 buildings at once with TK. And his thoughts suggest he could have overwhelmed him in TK.



It's not as if Dooku's lightning is cumulative. If Savage can tank one blast from it it only makes sense he can tank multiple blasts of the same level of power.But Malgus' lightning will exceed Savage's ability to tank in a single blast and take him out. It's like you're suggesting that because his armor tanked multiple blaster bolts that it can tank a cannon fire. It doesn't work that way.

Unless that pain kills him or he gets knocked out.

So was Aryn Leneer and guess what? Malgus one-shot her after he achieved Oneness with the darkside. 1. Not trying to equate Maul with Sidious here, I understand that Sidious wasn't trying very hard, but you have to have impressive speed to fight Sidious as evidenced by the failure of the Jedi Strike Team.

Savage didn't land a blow in combat, I think it was down to Sidious lacking appropriate area to dodge or really just not caring.

No I'm not? I'm using this as proof to equate Malgus with Maul, I don't think Maul can outfight Malgus through superior speed, but his more than fast enough to keep up with him and close gaps quickly.

2. A tier lower than Sidious is like Plagueis, Marek, Kun etc. but you probably think Malgus is as powerful as them so what evs.

He ragdolled Maul and Savage at the same time. I kick or a push and Malgus would probably be weak enough to be ragdolled. But this isn't about Sidious.

3. Kenobi "defeating" Maul and Savage does not seem a feat of speed to me, just a very powerful offense mixed with a perfect defense. But ultimately Maul has prove himself to be a considerably superior Force user to Kenobi by Force gripping him (just like Dooku) which indicates superior speed.

4. I'd reverse that and say Bane knew everything about Kas'ims normal style. He should have had adequate knowledge of Ataru. It was not as if Kas'im's style was unique and ground breaking, no more than Maul's style.

Anyway, I see no evidence that suggests Malgus is a superior duelist to Maul, who brought his mastery of Juyo to incredibly high levels and backed that up with mastery over Jar'Kai and Teras Kasi, he was one of the most skilled lightsaber duelists in Sith history. Malgus was just brute force brute force brute force, bit of skill go.

Anyway your not hearing me, with two duelists to focus on Malgus won't be able to apply his power, he'll have too much to deal with and it will leave him too exposed. And if he does the other can take him before he can land a killing blow. TK is useless if you can't use it.

And pain is culmative, which each shock Savage's body would have weakened. Let me give you a low down of what this power does:

Prolonged exposure to intense electrical fields (such as a sustained current of Force lightning) caused most humanoids to experience sudden and massive calcification of their skeletal system; the abrupt drop in blood minerals provoked muscular micro-seizures all over the victim's body.

With each blast he gets weaker and weaker and his ability to defend against the blasts grow weaker as well. Eventually Malgus would have passed out. Obviously. Its common sense to assume that someone who has just been shocked by lightining will be weaker than before, this is why Force Users often have to be worn down before you can choke them out. You have to whittle away at their defenses.

Oh and sure, Malgus can just spam oneness. And no way does Leener have the endurance capabilities Savage has.

So, any actual proof?

And by the way, they are not on a cloud, you can't stand on clouds. OK?

Can someone show me when Malgus ever used Maelstrom on a force user?

I've just only ever seen it once, on a non force user. This means it really can't be used in an argument against force users.
The whole point of Maelstrom is that it takes ages to actually reach full power, and that a good FORCE BARRIER must be thrown up.

Malgus never showed the ability to actually save himself from anyone who'd try and stop it through the force, and that's a pretty essential part

Well the Book of Sith shows him using it to annihilate some Jedi but dunno if thats proof.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Well the Book of Sith shows him using it to annihilate some Jedi but dunno if thats proof. It does not specify they were Jedi.

The guy is wearing Jedi robes.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
1. Not trying to equate Maul with Sidious here, I understand that Sidious wasn't trying very hard, but you have to have impressive speed to fight Sidious as evidenced by the failure of the Jedi Strike Team.

Savage didn't land a blow in combat, I think it was down to Sidious lacking appropriate area to dodge or really just not caring.

No I'm not? I'm using this as proof to equate Malgus with Maul, I don't think Maul can outfight Malgus through superior speed, but his more than fast enough to keep up with him and close gaps quickly.

1. And I say you don't have to have impressive speed to fight a Sidious who isn't using his full speed. Just however fast Mauls other feats suggest he is, since he's slowing himself down to Mauls level.

Excuses excuses. Maybe Sidious let Maul hit him too.

I think you should try establishing that without using his fight with Sidious as your proof. It's not good evidence of anything other than Sidious' dominance over him.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
2. A tier lower than Sidious is like Plagueis, Marek, Kun etc. but you probably think Malgus is as powerful as them so what evs.

He ragdolled Maul and Savage at the same time. I kick or a push and Malgus would probably be weak enough to be ragdolled. But this isn't about Sidious.

As of this time in the CW I'd say Plagueis and Kun are on a similar tier to Sidious. Maybe below him, but close nonetheless. Malgus is a tier lower with Vader, Marek, Nox and others.

In my opinion Malgus could ragdoll either of them as well and maybe both of them with difficulty. But we've already established you don't regard the feat I take as support of that (the Strike Team choke) as canon. But whatever, this is just us comparing out opinions. If you don't want me to point out that feat I won't.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
3. Kenobi "defeating" Maul and Savage does not seem a feat of speed to me, just a very powerful offense mixed with a perfect defense. But ultimately Maul has prove himself to be a considerably superior Force user to Kenobi by Force gripping him (just like Dooku) which indicates superior speed.

Maul is superior with the Force but that doesn't indicate superior force speed. Kenobi was ducking under Mauls attacks, dodging him, lands a kick and forces Maul back several times in the fight. He's clearly on par with Maul in terms of lightsaber combat.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
4. I'd reverse that and say Bane knew everything about Kas'ims normal style. He should have had adequate knowledge of Ataru. It was not as if Kas'im's style was unique and ground breaking, no more than Maul's style.

Anyway, I see no evidence that suggests Malgus is a superior duelist to Maul, who brought his mastery of Juyo to incredibly high levels and backed that up with mastery over Jar'Kai and Teras Kasi, he was one of the most skilled lightsaber duelists in Sith history. Malgus was just brute force brute force brute force, bit of skill go.

Ataru? What the hell are you talking about? Kas'im brought out dual lightsabers, which he had specifically not trained Bane to be capable of fighting against. Bane started losing because he had no clue what to do when fighting someone with two lightsabers. Which is why the comparison doesn't work here. Malgus knows how to fight Maul, he's faced double-bladed lightsabers and dual lightsabers before.

I might agree that Maul has more raw skill than Malgus does, simply because we have no real source that describes Malgus' level of skill beyond him being one of the most skilled warriors in the empire even before the war and that he defeated the Jedi Battlemaster in the Return trailer. I do think he has a very high level of skill, but he has little in the way of accolades like Maul has. But regardless, Malgus is more powerful and even before his prime fought a Maul-level opponent. He'd beat Maul in a lightsaber fight. To borrow your Kas'im comparison: Bane was beating Kas'im despite being less skilled through Bane being more powerful than he is.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Anyway your not hearing me, with two duelists to focus on Malgus won't be able to apply his power, he'll have too much to deal with and it will leave him too exposed. And if he does the other can take him before he can land a killing blow. TK is useless if you can't use it.

The two of them will never engage him at once though. He'll attack at least one with the Force before the reach him and take him out of the fight at least long enough to get the upper hand against the second one. Also Malgus is very capable of using the Force while he's in a lightsaber duel. His skill with the Force is that high.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
And pain is culmative, which each shock Savage's body would have weakened. Let me give you a low down of what this power does:

Prolonged exposure to intense electrical fields (such as a sustained current of Force lightning) caused most humanoids to experience sudden and massive calcification of their skeletal system; the abrupt drop in blood minerals provoked muscular micro-seizures all over the victim's body.

With each blast he gets weaker and weaker and his ability to defend against the blasts grow weaker as well. Eventually Malgus would have passed out. Obviously. Its common sense to assume that someone who has just been shocked by lightining will be weaker than before, this is why Force Users often have to be worn down before you can choke them out. You have to whittle away at their defenses.

Who gives a crap about pain? It's not the pain that's going to take Savage out, its his face being melted and his eyeballs exploding. Malgus' lightning will hurt Savage enough physically that Savage will be taken out of the fight.

Savage got stronger as Dooku continued to blast him though. So obviously thats not true. Malgus would have passed out? Don't you mean Savage? As I said, I'm not talking about pain, I'm talking about physical damage. Savage continuing to fight aftering being hit that many times is irrelevant to proving his ability to shrug off having his chest burned through.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Oh and sure, Malgus can just spam oneness. And no way does Leener have the endurance capabilities Savage has.

So, any actual proof?

He doesn't need to spam it, it's a permanent boost. Becuase Malgus is just that awesome.

True, but unlike him she actually knows how to block lightning. So Malgus overwhelming her lightsaber defense and pwning her is proof enough that he can also pwn Savage. Lightsaber defense it more effective than Savage's "grit your teeth" defense, thus Malgus overwhelming her defense is a feat above Savage's resistance feat.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
And by the way, they are not on a cloud, you can't stand on clouds. OK?

XSUPREMES opinion > yours.

Also Goku disagrees.

The brothers win with varying difficulty, not sure really. Maul has superior feats across the board to Malgus, and alone could likely take him with high difficulty. With both of them Malgus is done for.

Originally posted by carthage
Maul has superior feats across the board to Malgus
If you are trying to say that Maul is Malgus's superior in every respect, then... I'm not even sure what to say to that.

Suffice it to say that Maul and Malgus both have areas that they obviously surpass each other in.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
If you are trying to say that Maul is Malgus's superior in every respect, then... I'm not even sure what to say to that.

Suffice it to say that Maul and Malgus both have areas that they obviously surpass each other in.

-

Maul has killed Qui Gon Jinn, killed Anoon Bondara, Bruu Jun fan, destroyed the entire Black Sun gang, defeated Kenobi, defeated Savage Opress, fought evenly with Mace Windu, took down Grievous, and survived a fight with Sidious.

He has better dueling feats than Malgus

He's dodged blaster bolts, moved five times faster than the human eye could travel, formed a web of light out of his lightsaber, fought faster than Qui Gon Jin, fought fast enough to appear to be, disappeared from a force sensitive's senses, attacking from all sides to Komari Vosa, speedblitzed droids, and deflected fire from multiple droids.

He's faster than Malgus

He's moved a massive ship, collapsed a ceiling, shattered barracks with his force scream, blasted back droids with a force wave, collapsed a cave, and ragdolled Obi wan.

He's physically comparable/a little stronger as he's broken durasteel binders, broken a door inward, smashed a table, as well as snapped necks and smashed droids.

And Malgus has lightning, greater physical durability, telekinesis, and arguably better strength. To argue that either Maul or Malgus surpasses the other in every respect is laughable.

Maul is more skilled as a duelist, Malgus is more powerful and masterful with the force, both have their own physical edges over each other, and both are very capable tacticians.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
And Malgus has lightning, greater physical durability, telekinesis, and arguably better strength. To argue that either Maul or Malgus surpasses the other in every respect is laughable.

Maul is more skilled as a duelist, Malgus is more powerful and masterful with the force, both have their own physical edges over each other, and both are very capable tacticians.

Not really, considering again Maul has more feats and accolades than Malgus. He is more skilled, has defeated more opponents of merit, the only thing Malgus has on him is durability (which is questionable)

Sidious's tests of him during his youth are far more than anything Malgus had to endure. Malgus also isn't as strong Maul has driven his fist through a wampa, broken through durasteel armor (durasteel > the marble table Malgus cracked), and killed a 300 lb creature with his bare hands. When has Malgus cracked durasteel, fought scores of droids unarmed, and or survived training exercises deprived of food, nourishment, and survived hunting droids coming after him?

Maul is faster, more skilled, and more powerful by order of feats not by order of your opinion.

And when has Maul shielded himself from several tons of rubble before blasting it away while severely wounded, dominated two very powerful Sith/Jedi with the force at the same time, caused his opponent's arms to buckle behind the force of his blows, kicked Jedi several meters back, tanked explosions to the face, or created a Force Maelstrom?

When did Maul break durasteel armor, I thought it was binders.

And as far as Sidious and opinion goes, Sidious utterly dominated Maul in combat while amused, and he held Malgus's battlefield feats beyond anyone else's.

Did I ever deny that Maul is the more skilled of the two? No. Maul's technique is clearly more refined and proven. Did I ever deny that Maul is faster? No. Maul has greater speed feats and Malgus has had trouble with faster opponents before. Did I ever deny that Maul is greater in unarmed combat? No. Maul has training in Teras Kasi and has proven his immense talent in unarmed combat several times. Did I ever deny that Maul is more powerful in the force? Yes. Malgus has demonstrated greater telekinetic ability, as well as a plethora of other powers Maul lacks, and is comfortable applying his force powers far more freely in combat. Did I ever claim either of them to be superior to each other overall? No. This was not the claim or intent I had in this debate. All I'm doing is pointing out that suggesting Maul to be superior to Malgus in every respect is laughable.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
#obvioussock

Originally posted by Big Fat Hippo
Please, I wanna be friends. I'm sorry for how I treated you in the past.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
#Intrepidsockconfirmed

Malgus has far less speed feats than Maul, nothing Malgus has done puts him as faster. If Sidious fought seriously he'd speed blitz Maul and Malgus, the point was not that Maul is faster than Sidious but that he survived two encounters with him. Both would die miserably if they tried to fight him, but nothing suggests Malgus could even keep up with his striking speed like Maul did in his first encounter.




Maul defeated Komari Vosa while tired and suffering a blaster wound, survived a 98 foot fall into the underbelly of Coruscant without getting vaporized by the vehicles, getting touched, all while stunned and dodging obstacles that could kill him, survived being cooked alive, and killed a wampa when he suffered nerve damage from a wampa. As for endurance, I already said they were even in endurance, but that's stretching it considering Maul has more feats stretching into his youth that are more impressive regarding his trials with Sidious than Malgus did in that time period. Apart from endurance (which is debatable), you have admitted Malgus was inferior to Maul in the areas of skill, speed, and power, p. Backtracking doesn't change this, please bring up relevant speed, dueling feats, and martial abilities Malgus is known for that compare to Maul.

Originally posted by Selenial
Can someone show me when Malgus ever used Maelstrom on a force user?

I've just only ever seen it once, on a non force user. This means it really can't be used in an argument against force users.
The whole point of Maelstrom is that it takes ages to actually reach full power, and that a good FORCE BARRIER must be thrown up.

Malgus never showed the ability to actually save himself from anyone who'd try and stop it through the force, and that's a pretty essential part

It was a one off ability he displayed for a small amount of time. He has no feats to suggest he can use it in combat against the brothers.

Probably even. Maul has thrown a massive ship, Malgus moved tons of rubble, Maul has also moved tons of rubble, Malgus has moved a boulder, Maul has collapsed ceilings, and blasted droids. If anything Maul is probably a little better in the area of TK, but its probably not by much tbh. This isn't really an area that puts Malgus above Maul, as Maul has more showings of equal or slightly more impressive merit. Who cares whether or not Malgus has displayed his powers "more frequently in combat", Maul's feats are just as applicable in combat situations as Malgus's. I'm not seeing how this accounts for the discrepancy in dueling feats, skill level, and lightsaber ability which Maul outshines Malgus in.

This also doesn't take into account Savage's presence. This is not quite a spite match, but its a very pointless thread.

Originally posted by carthage
Malgus has far less speed feats than Maul, nothing Malgus has done puts him as faster. If Sidious fought seriously he'd speed blitz Maul and Malgus, the point was not that Maul is faster than Sidious but that he survived two encounters with him. Both would die miserably if they tried to fight him, but nothing suggests Malgus could even keep up with his striking speed like Maul did in his first encounter.




Maul defeated Komari Vosa while tired and suffering a blaster wound, survived a 98 foot fall into the underbelly of Coruscant without getting vaporized by the vehicles, getting touched, all while stunned and dodging obstacles that could kill him, survived being cooked alive, and killed a wampa when he suffered nerve damage from a wampa. As for endurance, I already said they were even in endurance, but that's stretching it considering Maul has more feats stretching into his youth that are more impressive regarding his trials with Sidious than Malgus did in that time period. Apart from endurance (which is debatable), you have admitted Malgus was inferior to Maul. Backtracking doesn't change this.
Half of your post was about how I'm apparently wrong for thinking Malgus is faster when I've said the exact opposite thing. You have a strange tendency to misrepresent and misquote my arguments and views in a futile attempt to make it look like I am failing to defend a viewpoint, even though I never held that view to begin with.

You also failed to acknowledge my biggest point of argumentation, which is in fact Malgus's superiority as a force wielder, instead claiming that I'm banking everything on Malgus's endurance, acting as if I've conceded to Maul's superiority in every other regard, which is not the case.


Basically this entire post by you was a futile attempt to make it look as if you are winning by completely misrepresenting, misquoting, and misattributing my arguments. Don't expect anybody to fall for it. People are a lot smarter than this.

I'm not misquoting them, you admitted Malgus was weaker in areas, and I'm bringing up force feats to show that there is no real discrepancy between Malgus's and Maul's force feats. Apart from endurance Maul is simply superior in all areas, as in force feats Maul has more than his fair share of showings to rival Malgus's

Originally posted by Emperordmb



Did I ever deny that Maul is the more skilled of the two? No. Maul's technique is clearly more refined and proven. Did I ever deny that Maul is faster? No. Maul has greater speed feats and Malgus has had trouble with faster opponents before. Did I ever deny that Maul is greater in unarmed combat? No. Maul has training in Teras Kasi and has proven his immense talent in unarmed combat several times.

I'm not misrepresenting anything as the above quote mentions. If they're even in a few areas, but Maul is higher in certain areas, ergo, Maul is superior by virtue of his other specs and showings. Malgus's showings in the force are kind of rudimentary i,e powerful TK showings which aren't all that different from what Maul has displayed. I know Malgus's feats and none of them are either put him above Maul unless you believe moving tons of rubble is superior to moving a massive ship which Maul moved (while injured). I don't see a discrepancy and or anything I've failed to address regarding Malgus's force abilities. His force maelstrom would never come into play, lightning can be absorbed by a saber, and both of their TK feats don't suggest either of them overpowering them in the same nature they would to someone like Bulq or Kenobi.




It wasn't futile as you readily Malgus was inferior in areas, are vacillating with regards to the relative close proximity of both guys force feats and endurance feats, when Maul's dueling abilities are far superior to Malgus's. Malgus's force abilities are not on a tier as to where they'd kill Maul or play some 00ber decisive role.

Again, everyone keeps forgetting that Savage is in this too. Malgus is strong and would lose to Maul in a hard fought match, but adding his brother who is underrated and no slouch himself makes this a mismatch.

Here you are attempting to cover up your failed deception.

You once again spent the first half of your last post challenging me on a viewpoint I never held to begin with. You acted as if I had conceded every area but endurance, which is not the case because I also never conceded physical strength, nor mastery and strength in the force. Admitting Maul's superiority in some areas is not the same as admitting it in all but one area.

Your misrepresenting of my arguments in an attempt to distort people's view of this debate, and your subsequent attempt to deny it when I called you out for it, is basically the same thing as lying.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Here you are attempting to cover up your failed deception.

You once again spent the first half of your last post challenging me on a viewpoint I never held to begin with. You acted as if I had conceded every area but endurance, which is not the case because I also never conceded physical strength, nor mastery and strength in the force. Admitting Maul's superiority in some areas is not the same as admitting it in all but one area.

Your misrepresenting of my arguments in an attempt to distort people's view of this debate, and your subsequent attempt to deny it when I called you out for it, is basically the same thing as lying.


I'm not misrepresenting anything, all I did was challenge your point with regards to Malgus's "mastery of the force". I even agreed with you that they're even in terms of endurance. Why do you always post like you have a chip on your shoulder dude? Again if you look back at my posts I only took issue with your statements regarding Malgus's force mastery, and I gave feats that showcased my viewpoint as to their close proximity in those feats. Nothing Malgus has done with his force abilities put him as superior to Maul based on what you posted, as Maul has performed feats quite similar to his. Maul's stronger, faster, and more skilled and that would swing the duel in his favor in terms of a saber duel. Malgus's force abilities aren't so powerful as to swing the duel in his favor. Lightning can be absorbed by a saber, he has no feats of force maelstrom in active combat, and Maul's physical showings with force enhanced abilities outstrip Malgus's based on the showings I've posted and can post again to reiterate my point

Also even as good of a warrior as Malgus is people keep forgetting about Maul's brother. Malgus's fights have never showed him as readily one shotting a powerful opponent, why people magically assume he'd dispose of either without labor intensive fighting goes against every duel Malgus has ever had.

So what I'm hearing is that Malgus easily wins and is basically clearly Mauls vast superior.

In my opinion:
Malgus > Dooku > Maul

You need to stop lying about quotes. You find a quote, and then fake a second part to make it look more viable.

Sidious never called Malgus the greatest Warrior, he merely stated that he had an unparalleled control of his rage, something Vader could learn from.

Originally posted by Selenial
You need to stop lying about quotes. You find a quote, and then fake a second part to make it look more viable.

Sidious never called Malgus the greatest Warrior, he merely stated that he had an unparalleled control of his rage, something Vader could learn from.
Here;

Malgus submitted utterly to the dark side, and doing so made him an exemplary warrior. His battlefield feats have never been duplicated. (Book of Sith - Secrets from the Dark Side)

Darth Malgus is an unparalleled warrior according to Darth Sidious, I said nothing wrong.

Originally posted by carthage
I'm not misrepresenting anything, all I did was challenge your point with regards to Malgus's "mastery of the force". I even agreed with you that they're even in terms of endurance. Why do you always post like you have a chip on your shoulder dude? Again if you look back at my posts I only took issue with your statements regarding Malgus's force mastery, and I gave feats that showcased my viewpoint as to their close proximity in those feats. Nothing Malgus has done with his force abilities put him as superior to Maul based on what you posted, as Maul has performed feats quite similar to his. Maul's stronger, faster, and more skilled and that would swing the duel in his favor in terms of a saber duel. Malgus's force abilities aren't so powerful as to swing the duel in his favor. Lightning can be absorbed by a saber, he has no feats of force maelstrom in active combat, and Maul's physical showings with force enhanced abilities outstrip Malgus's based on the showings I've posted and can post again to reiterate my point

Also even as good of a warrior as Malgus is people keep forgetting about Maul's brother. Malgus's fights have never showed him as readily one shotting a powerful opponent, why people magically assume he'd dispose of either without labor intensive fighting goes against every duel Malgus has ever had.
The entire post before you mentioned their force abilities was a misrepresentation of my argument. Whether you deny it or not there is no way for you to hide the fact that you spent half of a post challenging me on a point I never made (their speed), and acted as if I was losing for not supporting this point, even though I never held that viewpoint to begin with, and in fact said the exact opposite. Then you claimed that I conceded everything except endurance, which is blatantly untrue, considering that I also never conceded strength, tactical ingenuity, or mastery of the force. You misrepresented my points to make me look bad, and then you tried to cover it up. You lied and you are still lying by trying to deny this.

As far as force abilities go, a hat-tip to legend for posting force feats for Malgus. Malgus has oneshotted several people with the force, including three padawans simultaneously and Aryn Leneer. With telekinesis, he penetrated the force defenses of Satele Shan and slammed her into a tree, he prevented several tons of rubble from falling on him while severely wounded then blasted it away, he crushed a Jedi's throat with the force in the sacking of Coruscant, he penetrated Ven Zallow's force defenses, and he telekinetically throttled Lord Adraas. Malgus also brought the strike team sent after him to their knees with force lightning. A team that included either the Hero of Tython and Barsen'thor, or the Emperor's Wrath and Darth Nox.

There is more than a marginal discrepancy between their respective force abilities, and though I conceded Maul to be the more skilled of the two, their martial prowess isn't too far off, with Malgus besting Kao Cen Darach and Ven Zallow, warranting the Republic or Sith's greatest Heroes to kill him, and his tremendous accolade from Sidious. Even Vader looked up to Malgus in some respects. Malgus's force abilities could in fact turn the tide in his favor.

I didn't mention Savage because the point of this debate was me challenging your opinion that Maul is better than Malgus in every way, which is simply not true.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Here;

Malgus submitted utterly to the dark side, and doing so made him an exemplary warrior. His battlefield feats have never been duplicated. (Book of Sith - Secrets from the Dark Side)

Darth Malgus is an unparalleled warrior according to Darth Sidious, I said nothing wrong.

Battlefield.

Means warzone, not a normal fight.

And this is because no Sith or Jedi ever lead battles in the way that Malgus did, you never see Dark council members on the field etc, Vader didn't lead Stormtroopers, he just went solo Rage on occasion

Though this also isn't even counting Vader, as Sidious wrote the book of Sith before ANH.

Originally posted by Selenial
Battlefield.

Means warzone, not a normal fight.

And this is because no Sith or Jedi ever lead battles in the way that Malgus did, you never see Dark council members on the field etc, Vader didn't lead Stormtroopers, he just went solo Rage on occasion

Though this also isn't even counting Vader, as Sidious wrote the book of Sith before ANH.
Here;

Republic defenders lucky enough to flee these battles told of Malgus striding confidently at the front of his armies and single-handedly shattering fortifications. (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia)

Dark Council members also participated in battles such as Darth Marr and Darth Decimus. Both have very impressive performance as well. Darth Marr's combat prowess became stuff of legends, he single-handedly routed entire armies of the Republic in various battles.

Darth Vader's performance against Count Dooku is covered though, as Anakin. And Anakin was at his top form during this time. After Darth Vader's injuries and loss, Darth Sidious wanted to inspire Darth Vader, he regarded Darth Malgus as an excellent example.

Again you fail to see.

This is all about War, it means Nothing in the context of duels and battles, Sidious' admiration of Malgus was as a war leader and an expert controller of his rage, nothing more.

Go play a martyr somewhere else.



I guess that's all cool and all except Maul has ragdolled Kenobi who is more impressive than the fodder Malgus killed. He's also brought down tons of rubble when he sent Kenobi flying and collapsed a cave simultaneously. Also Maul has telekinetically stopped hearts and snapped necks as well. None of what you posted is all that different from what he has done. I fail to see any discrepancy in terms of whatever "massive" force advantage he has.




Nope. As this thread is Malgus vs. the Maul Brothers, every post you've made fails to take into account the existence of his brother in this match. He'd be hard pressed by Maul alone, with Savage he is finished

Originally posted by Selenial
Again you fail to see.

This is all about War, it means Nothing in the context of duels and battles, Sidious' admiration of Malgus was as a war leader and an expert controller of his rage, nothing more.
Malgus was not a politician, Selenial.

He fought on the frontlines.

What do you think "single-handedly shattering fortifications" suggests?

Malgus's combat actions represent his battlefield feats. Sidious wasn't referring to Malgus's leadership abilities, he was referring to Malgus's skills and psychology as a warrior.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Malgus was not a politician, Selenial.

He fought on the frontlines.

What do you think "single-handedly shattering fortifications" suggests?

Malgus's combat actions represent his battlefield feats. Sidious wasn't referring to Malgus's leadership abilities, he was referring to Malgus's skills and psychology as a warrior.

Exactly.

It has nothing to so with duels against force users, prowess in lightsaber forms or anything like that, that could be applied here.

Originally posted by Selenial
Exactly.

It has nothing to so with duels against force users, prowess in lightsaber forms or anything like that, that could be applied here.
Malgus's actions and talents covered all of these matters. He is noted as an exceptional warrior, not a politician or decision-maker. Try to understand the difference.

I agree with Legend. Duels with Force users happen on the battlefield and obviously lightsaber prowess is a big factor on it as well. Suggesting that war has nothing to do with battles and duels is ridiculous.

Bane never fought on a battlefield.

I said duels occur on a battlefield, but Bane never had a duel on a battlefield, so theres no comparison there.

Originally posted by Vitiate Rocks
You said that duels were ''a big factor''. It's a pretty good comparison according to yourself.

On the other hand, per the dictionary, a ''battlefield'' is simply ''an area where battle is fought''. Bane has fought multiple battles and would qualify.

It's only a comparison between people who have performed feats on the battlefield. What I said was that duels between Jedi and Sith are a big factor in battles fought during a war and happen frequently. Since Selenial was trying to suggest that duels have nothing to do with war and battles, which is clearly false. This doesn't mean that Malgus performing great feats on the field surpasses people who have fought off a battlefield.

I wouldn't qualify any of Bane's fights as battles since that's usually defined as a conflict between two large forces. Also, Bane has only fought in a few real fights whilst Malgus fought in a 30 year war. It's only natural he has performed superior battlefield feats to Bane, who has never fought in any war as a Sith.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I said duels occur on a battlefield, but Bane never had a duel on a battlefield, so theres no comparison there.

Really? Because I don't see anything in those quotes that pertains directly to duels with powerful Jedi.

Malgus' battlefield feats have no repercussions or affects on a duel with someone of Mauls Caliber.

Originally posted by Selenial
Really? Because I don't see anything in those quotes that pertains directly to duels with powerful Jedi.

Malgus' battlefield feats have no repercussions or affects on a duel with someone of Mauls Caliber.
What happens during battles? Combat

What happens during combat? Force powers and lightsaber are used, opponents are struck down or destroyed.

Darth Malgus did fight many Jedi during battles. The events depicted in all 3 official trailers are representative of battles taking place between the Jedi/Republic and reconstituted ancient Sith Empire.

Darth Malgus' Force Maelstrom is a combination of Force resistance, Force Lightning, and Telekinesis. Users also include the Shadow Guard.
Darth Malgus is highly capable in all three of these aspects. Being able to wield them simultaneously is a testament to his power in combat.
To gauge how effective it would be against Darth Maul, it would be appropriate to look at his Force resistance feats to lightning and telekinesis.

Originally posted by Vitiate Rocks
When Malgus utilizes Maelstrom against a character even approaching Maul's level, let me know.
You don't understand. The level of the character is irrelevant. A Jedi padawan can use telekinesis against Palpatine, though it won't be effective.
The debate should be whether-or-not it will be effective against Darth Maul and Savage Opress, not whether-or-not he can use it in combat.

Originally posted by Vitiate Rocks
Maul's Force aura is strong enough to blunt Malgus' telekinesis, and he could just block his lightning or dodge it.
I don't recall Darth Maul having any Force resistance feats besides withstanding lightning.

Originally posted by Vitiate Rocks
I'm pretty sure Dooku would have constricted him with the Force if he could.
Merely speculating won't help you win a debate.

Malgus's TK feats are not on a tier higher than Maul's. To suggest his TK would do anything more than momentarily stagger him isn't very realistic. Maul's dueling ability is more than enough to press Malgus, and his speed is more than enough to make Malgus hard pressed to use his force abilities.

Originally posted by Vitiate Rocks
Unless you're insinutating that Dooku is an idiot, it's very reasonable.
Force lightning is one of the most efficient ways of touring one through the Force.
Trying to choke Darth Maul through telekinesis would not result in the same as him being electrified.

Originally posted by Vitiate Rocks
And this is just a red herring. We were talking about Maul's Force aura against Malgus' telekinesis, not lightning.
And ironically for you, he has no Force resistance feats against telekinesis besides this:
http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/7-19-2014/l6yL41.gif
Oh wait...

Grasping on straws? I never even presented an argument against-or-for Darth Maul.
It is rather your job to provide evidence to Nephthys and S_W_LeGenD of Darth Maul's Force resistance.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
What happens during battles? Combat

What happens during combat? Force powers and lightsaber are used, opponents are struck down or destroyed.

And? Yoda and Windu have both single handedly wiped out armies.

But that's not what we use to ever say they're amazing.

It doesnt take a great Jedi/Sith to destroy a bunch of mooks.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
And ironically for you, he has no Force resistance feats against telekinesis besides this:
http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/7-19-2014/l6yL41.gif
Oh wait...

Sidious.

That's literally the only thing I need to say here.

Originally posted by Selenial
Sidious.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0otZyorrCU&t=0m55s

Originally posted by Selenial
And? Yoda and Windu have both single handedly wiped out armies.

But that's not what we use to ever say they're amazing.

It doesnt take a great Jedi/Sith to destroy a bunch of mooks.

And Sidious obviously has full knowledge of everything they've done, so him saying Malgus surpassed their war feats is insane.

I kinda is.

In Malgus' time there was Jedi accompanying armies though. It's not the same as the PT where everything was retarded droids.

Originally posted by Nephthys
And Sidious obviously has full knowledge of everything they've done, so him saying Malgus surpassed their war feats is insane.

I kinda is.

In Malgus' time there was Jedi accompanying armies though. It's not the same as the PT where everything was retarded droids.

Or perhaps it's the fact that Sidious has such a disdain for Jedi that he'd never, ever, put them above a Darth?

And have you read mine? That is all speculation.
The only two times telekinesis has ever been used in torture was from Anakin Skywalker.
He once uses it against Poggle the Lesser and another time against Sa Cuis.

Are you not referring to Dooku torturing Darth Maul with lightning in Son of Dathomir?
Also, Darth Sidious tortured Darth Maul with lightning. He used telekinesis to win the fight
Do you have a link where Dooku uses telekinesis to torture Assaj Ventress?

Maybe Dooku didn't choke Maul out because he'd be instantly executed if he tried to do that.

I thought you were referring to the picture below.
You should have specified. He had many opportunities.
http://i39.servimg.com/u/f39/17/73/92/12/darth_10.png

Originally posted by Nephthys
Maybe Dooku didn't choke Maul out because he'd be instantly executed if he tried to do that.

He would have been executed by the other Mandalorians in all of those "opportunities."

If you are referring to the final panel, we simply do not know what Dooku does once they leave.
Many speculate Dooku was mind-dominated by Mother Talzin actually. We will have to wait to see.

By that point he's pretending to have joined Maul though.

Originally posted by Emperor Tyranus
There were also only a pair of Mandalorians when Dooku lost the handcuffs, from what I saw.
And Darth Maul was holding his lightsaber right up to Dooku's throat.
If he would have even made an effort to use telekinesis, he would have died.
Though if you been reading the series, you would see they don't want Darth Maul dead.

Originally posted by Emperor Tyranus
I'm pretty sure Sidious and Tyranus would much prefer Maul dead than alive.

Huh? Tyranus is trying to get Maul to take him to Talzin, I thought.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Huh? Tyranus is trying to get Maul to take him to Talzin, I thought.


Yes, and Darth Maul has his Darksaber with him as well.
Dueling Darth Maul would destroy Sidious' plot to find Talzin.

Are you trolling? That's not how battles work for Force-sensitives.


"In the end, we shall use Maul to lead us to Talzin."
--Darth Sidious (Darth Maul: Son of Dathomir)

"Aware of Talzin's growing power as a formidable adversary, Sidious devised a plan to use Maul to lure her out into the open, where he can destroy her."
--Star Wars Darth Maul: Son of Dathomir

Read the first issue. Maul is Talzin's son, and Sidious needs him to draw her away from Dathomir because he can't kill her otherwise.

Now it looks like I'm talking to myself.

Originally posted by carthage
Malgus's TK feats are not on a tier higher than Maul's. To suggest his TK would do anything more than momentarily stagger him isn't very realistic. Maul's dueling ability is more than enough to press Malgus, and his speed is more than enough to make Malgus hard pressed to use his force abilities.
Darth Malgus have demonstrated the capability to telekinetically handle powerhouses such as Satele Shan and Aryn Leener. In-fact, he telekinetically dominated even the Strike Team at one point that was sent to assassinate him.

Both Aryn Leener and Satele Shan have very impressive telekinetic abilities, both are likely stronger then Darth Maul.

Darth Malgus can telekinetically dominate Darth Maul easily.

As far as dueling ability and speed arguments are concerned, both Satele Shan and Aryn Leener were exceptional in these matters and they still failed. Darth Malgus's dueling ability and speed is underrated it seems.

Originally posted by Selenial
And? Yoda and Windu have both single handedly wiped out armies.

But that's not what we use to ever say they're amazing.

It doesnt take a great Jedi/Sith to destroy a bunch of mooks.
It is not possible for a lone individual to wipe out or rout a large professional military force without having exceptional combat prowess and power in the Force. Only the strongest of Jedi and Sith can pull this off.

A professional army is much more than a bunch of mooks. And I would rank Republic forces above those pathetic B1 droids in effectiveness and smartness.

Originally posted by Nephthys
And Sidious obviously has full knowledge of everything they've done, so him saying Malgus surpassed their war feats is insane.

I kinda is.

In Malgus' time there was Jedi accompanying armies though. It's not the same as the PT where everything was retarded droids.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Read the first issue. Maul is Talzin's son, and Sidious needs him to draw her away from Dathomir because he can't kill her otherwise.
He can't kill her otherwise, what do you mean?

Palpatine didn't specify any feats of Malgus in the quote about the battle field, but somehow that means he beats every single force user Sidious has came across in every area.

Of course not. Its just a good accolade, not an insta-win ability.