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There's been a lot of talk around here recently about the upcoming Sequel Trilogy. However I'm wondering, why should we bother with it?

The only reason the Sequel Trilogy is being made is so a bunch of greedy executives can make a ton of money off of merchandising. We, the fans, didn't ask for a Sequel Trilogy, we don't want it or need it. Those who like the movie characters have plenty of novels, comics etc featuring them and those same novels, comics etc have also created plenty of new characters for those who aren't fussed about those from the movies.

Sure, we can watch the Sequel Trilogy out of curiousity, but other than that why should we truly invest in it?

We, the fans, didn't ask for the original movies either, yet whadyaknow, they happened. And it's pretty friggin self-centered and selfish of you to focus only on the fans who like the novels and games. There are a lot more people out there who care about the movies than they do the EU. They're being made for them, since they're the ones that drive the franchise.

If you don't care, don't pay to see them. If you do care, then do.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
There's been a lot of talk around here recently about the upcoming Sequel Trilogy. However I'm wondering, why should we bother with it?

The only reason the Sequel Trilogy is being made is so a bunch of greedy executives can make a ton of money off of merchandising. We, the fans, didn't ask for a Sequel Trilogy, we don't want it or need it. Those who like the movie characters have plenty of novels, comics etc featuring them and those same novels, comics etc have also created plenty of new characters for those who aren't fussed about those from the movies.

Sure, we can watch the Sequel Trilogy out of curiousity, but other than that why should we truly invest in it? What, exactly, is the purpose of this thread?

To b*tch about something that doesn't deserve it.


Yet.

I'd love to see a more matured up Star Wars with PG-13 features. Since I won't get that, I'll probably just go see it out of curiosity.

Originally posted by Sinious
I'd love to see a more matured up Star Wars with PG-13 features. We had that. It was called Revenge of the Sith. It was so "dark" and "gritty" and "serious". Bro.

Revenge of the Sith was ****in amazing IMO.

Yeah, I bet.

I found RotS rather contrived.

I'm extremely excited for the new movies though.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
We had that. It was called Revenge of the Sith. It was so "dark" and "gritty" and "serious". Bro.

Not really. The storyline was sad but the characters couldnt sell it. Bad acting and drama style dialogs have a huge effect on this though. Directors have a huge impact on the actors' performances. Thanks to Lucas, even Samuel Jackson performed poorly. Ian McDiarmid and Ewan McGregor were the only 2 who actually didn't suck.

However, I'm not crying out for another OT style trilogy. OT was great but it was the first step of the creation of this wide fictional universe and it evolved into something even better in time. What I'm looking for in a SW movie is the dark and philosophical concept that we had in KOTOR. That kind of concept would be awesome to watch regardless of the era.

Originally posted by Sinious
Not really. No, really. We had that.

We need a Saw themed star wars movie. That is all.

Originally posted by NemeBro
What, exactly, is the purpose of this thread?

I'm just curious. I'd like to know why anyone should give a filoffal about these upcoming movies.

If you like the movie characters (Luke Leia, Chewbacca etc) then there are plenty of books, comics etc that say "what happened next." Why bother with new movies when you already have the means to spend time with beloved characters?

Likewise if you weren't interested in the movie characters, the EU introduced others. Except that they won't be in the new movies.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
And it's pretty friggin self-centered and selfish of you to focus only on the fans who like the novels and games.

I'm not. I'm considering the movie fans too.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
There are a lot more people out there who care about the movies than they do the EU.

But like I said, the movie characters are covered in the novels/comics. If say, your favourite is Luke Skywalker then there are plenty of novels/comics with him in. If you want to spend time with him you can read those.

I honestly want to know, what is the appeal?

Originally posted by chilled monkey
I'm not. I'm considering the movie fans too.



But like I said, the movie characters are covered in the novels/comics. If say, your favourite is Luke Skywalker then there are plenty of novels/comics with him in. If you want to spend time with him you can read those.

I honestly want to know, what is the appeal? Okay...


The appeal is that a movie is a movie, not a comic or novel. This is like asking what's the appeal of driving a car when there's a city bus you can hop on? They're not the same thing, and I honestly don't know how you can't see that. The movies are being made for people who want to see more Star Wars. The novels and comics are made for people who like to read Star Wars novels and comics. It's not a competition about either-or. Different media for different people, and it happens that the films are far more high-profile and lucrative.


Seriously, how are you not grasping such a simple concept?

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Okay...


The appeal is that a movie is a movie, not a comic or novel. This is like asking what's the appeal of driving a car when there's a city bus you can hop on? They're not the same thing, and I honestly don't know how you can't see that. The movies are being made for people who want to see more Star Wars. The novels and comics are made for people who like to read Star Wars novels and comics.

Yeah, but you watch a movie or read a book for the same reason. Because it has characters you like.

These movies are just not needed as there is already plenty of stuff featuring the movie characters.

See below.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
It's not a competition about either-or. Different media for different people, and it happens that the films are far more high-profile and lucrative.

That's part of the problem. The novels etc are made for art. The movies are just a way to make money.

In any case, I'm not saying people shouldn't watch it. Heck, I'll probably watch the Sequel Trilogy myself.

When I say, "why bother with it?" I just mean I see no reason to treat it as anything more than a what-if story.

To put it another way, to me the EU is what "really happened" and these movies will just be a diversion.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
Yeah, but you watch a movie or read a book for the same reason. Because it has characters you like.

These movies are just not needed as there is already plenty of stuff featuring the movie characters.

See below. Wrong. I watch a movie because I want the experience of a movie. And part of the criteria for a story-based film is the characters. Don't confuse the correlation of the themes/characters/story of a film with the desire for the existence of the film just in and of itself. Reading a book is different from reading a comic, watching a movie is different from playing a video-game, etc. Different media, different deliveries, different executions, different experiences.



Originally posted by chilled monkey
That's part of the problem. The novels etc are made for art. The movies are just a way to make money.

In any case, I'm not saying people shouldn't watch it. Heck, I'll probably watch the Sequel Trilogy myself.

When I say, "why bother with it?" I just mean I see no reason to treat it as anything more than a what-if story.

To put it another way, to me the EU is what "really happened" and these movies will just be a diversion. Don't trick yourself in to one-sided cynicism. For one, it's narrow-minded and rather ignorant, and for another, it reeks of a bygone elitist attitude that entertainment media can only be "art" if it's put to page instead of celluloid.


It doesn't take much maneuvering to take your position on this and make it say "Why have film at all, when the characters of film can instead just be put to print?" Sounds retarded, doesn't it?

Just to reiterate, film--and I'm going to emphasize this like a prick--Is. Not. The. Same. As. Print. It's an entirely separate experience and a totally different way to delivery a story, characters, worlds, themes, effects, music, etc. These movies are being made for people who want to once again see Star Wars as a movie (and hopefully a good one this time). It's not about the Star Wars characters, it's about the Star Wars movie.

Chilled Monkey,

You do realize, that with Disney's new Canon policy that "what happens next" in all of those books and comics now didn't happen, right? Also, those new interesting characters, introduced in said books and comics, likewise don't exist in the Canon universe. I understand if you personally don't want or need a Sequel Trilogy, but I for one would enjoy seeing the OT characters benefiting from some updated technology, to better show their capabilities, compared to how they originally were presented.

Besides, this means that new books and comics will be produced, so even if you disagree with the new trilogy, you at least get that.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Revenge of the Sith was ****in amazing IMO.
For a Star Wars movie anyway.

Originally posted by Emperor F Xtasy
I am a troll, don't bother with me.
Fixed for truth.

Originally posted by Kalen Sykes
Chilled Monkey,

You do realize, that with Disney's new Canon policy that "what happens next" in all of those books and comics now didn't happen, right?

Wrong.

I decide for myself what I consider to be canon. To me the books/comics etc are what happened.

Now maybe (just maybe) the new movies will actually be good (although I doubt it), in which case I'll consider them a parallel universe.

If Disney told you to stop breathing would you do it, or would you think for yourself and say "no, I'll keep on breathing."


Originally posted by Kalen Sykes
Also, those new interesting characters, introduced in said books and comics, likewise don't exist in the Canon universe.

Says who? A bunch of suits? I don't let suits tell me what to enjoy and what not to. I adore those characters so to me they exist.

If Disney thinks they can tell me how to live my life, they can get stuffed. I apologize for saying this, but it seems to me like people here are acting like brainwashed drones that only think what Disney tells them to.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
No, really. We had that.

So you ignored my entire post where I explained why Revenge of the Sith didn't provide what you said?

Originally posted by chilled monkey
Wrong.

I decide for myself what I consider to be canon. To me the books/comics etc are what happened.

Now maybe (just maybe) the new movies will actually be good (although I doubt it), in which case I'll consider them a parallel universe.

If Disney told you to stop breathing would you do it, or would you think for yourself and say "no, I'll keep on breathing."

Says who? A bunch of suits? I don't let suits tell me what to enjoy and what not to. I adore those characters so to me they exist.

If Disney thinks they can tell me how to live my life, they can get stuffed. I apologize for saying this, but it seems to me like people here are acting like brainwashed drones that only think what Disney tells them to.

No one gives half a shit what you think. You're entitled to like what you want but yes, Disney does in fact decide what is canon or not in Star Wars.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
I decide for myself what I consider to be canon. To me the books/comics etc are what happened. Well then shut the f*ck up and quit your b*tching. No one cares about you.


Originally posted by Sinious
So you ignored my entire post where I explained why Revenge of the Sith didn't provide what you said? Did you ignore the part where you're post began with "not really" as a response to my "we already had that"? Don't open with a contradictory sentence fragment and then b*tch that the rest was overlooked. Your presentation sucks.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien


Did you ignore the part where you're post began with "not really" as a response to my "we already had that"? Don't open with a contradictory sentence fragment and then b*tch that the rest was overlooked. Your presentation sucks.

Wow take a chill pill, no need to get angry and insult people. We are just talking here. Are you always this sad?

So you ignored my entire post where I explained why your post didn't mesh with what was initially posited?

This is getting sadder with each post you make.

I didn't like the acting in ROTS and couldnt take it serious enough to consider it dark and philosophical since the trilogy was filmed for little kids. Simple as that. So stop trying to start conflicts out of nothing with that childish attitude of yours.

Originally posted by Sinious
This is getting sadder with each post you make.

I didn't like the acting in ROTS and couldnt take it serious enough to consider it dark and philosophical since the trilogy was filmed for little kids. Simple as that. So stop trying to start conflicts out of nothing with that childish attitude of yours. Revenge of the Sith:


Was, or was it not, rated PG-13?

Only because of the ending(where Kenobi cuts Anakin's legs-arm and lets him burn).

It doesn't mature up the rest of the movie. By the way, Im not saying they should change the concept in the next movies. Just saying that this style of movies aren't for my taste.

Ah Star Wars fans, such an unhappy bunch we are.

Yeah LMAO. If you're gonna ***** about something, at least wait until you know what exactly you're bitching about.

Originally posted by Sinious
Only because of the ending(where Kenobi cuts Anakin's legs-arm and lets him burn).


Errr... Anakin murdering children, Windu getting his arm cut off, face melted and thrown out of a window... Dooku getting beheaded, Grievous' head literally immolating, pretty much Order 66 in its entirety.

There were a shit ton of dark scenes in this movie- and more darkly portrayed death then in any of the other films. If they had made the scenes anymore graphic, the movie would have been R.

Originally posted by NemeBro
No one gives half a shit what you think.

I'm curious, have I hurt your feelings in some way? Do you consider me stating my opinions to be a personal affront of some kind?

Originally posted by NemeBro
Disney does in fact decide what is canon or not in Star Wars.

No, each person decide what is canon to him/her. If you don't like something that happens in a series, you can chose to ignore it. That is because we, as humans, have a gift called free will. You need to start thinking for yourself.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Well then shut the f*ck up and quit your b*tching. No one cares about you.

Sinious said it very eloquently:

Originally posted by Sinious
Wow take a chill pill, no need to get angry and insult people. We are just talking here. Are you always this sad? sad

Indeed.

Seriously LL, you need to lighten up.

Here's the thing: Once the new ones are made, we'll have... *both* versions!

The old ones won't go away, there just won't be new stuff made for them.


I'm a fan of many things that have multiple continuities.

Star Wars movies have always been for kids. I don't know any Star Wars lovers who wasn't a kid when they first saw the movies - whether that was OT or PT.

The comics and novels and whatnot can provide a progression of sophistication for a maturing fan to discover on his or her personal journey of fandom, but to make an adult movie - movies being the point of entry for most fans - would be a huge departure. I would guess Disney will aim for the same level Marvel has in their Avengers related movies.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
Indeed.

Seriously LL, you need to lighten up. And you need to get what's been said to you through your head. Your beloved EU is not privileged.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
No, each person decide what is canon to him/her. lol wut?

Im perfectly happy if they don't make new Star Wars. However, since they are, am giving it a chance. Excited, but also cautious cause it may turn out to ruin things further. If lucas did ep 7-9, might be a different story. But, curious to see how it turns out without lucas. Disney will make a fortune, so the risk to there investment is low. Fans get what they get I guess...

Yes my young apprentices, thou shalt not complain just yet.

Like Phantom Menace, you'll have your whole lives ahead of you to do so after it comes out.

Disneys stocks been growing for the past years. Was thinking of buying when they bought lucas film. If ep7 sucks I hope they take a hit. Although it probably won't with all the crap they can do with it. Merchandise, rides, etc. The true fans will get shot, but there's still the not knowing any better kids that will help disneys industry.

Also, no pressure on Abrams to make his dec 2015 date no matter what....

Originally posted by JediRobin23
The true fans will get shot...

Well, with how many of the "True Fans" became whiny bitches about the PT, I'm not really concerned at all about what the True Fans think. The True Fans are also seem like the type that don't like Michael Bay Transformers films despite how well they do.

I for one hope the Sequel Trilogy performs very well and they deliver a good Star Wars experience. No matter what is produced, no matter how good, no matter how well it performs, there will still be a ridiculous number of "True Fans" that will whine about the ST. They enjoy being contrarians. They enjoy hating popular things. Every major niche geeky thing has these types.* It just so happens that Star Wars is the biggest of these niches.


*I've seen it in the following things:

Magic: The Gathering
Warhammer 40,000
Star Trek
Dune
LotR and Hobbit films
Comic Books
Popular Manga Series
Stuff in the Horror genre (film and books)



Just seems quite common. People love to complain and contradict. That's okay: I don't like everything, as well. But geeky types, like we are (I consider it a compliment) are pretty dang picky about some things and they should be allowed to be. That's what makes it fun to be a geek: arguing with your friends about the stuff you love.

The ST will hook a new generation of fans, and those who become 'true fans' will have plenty of EU stuff to satisfy their geek needs.

Yeah. Don't know if you can define a true fan. All I know is I am. And I'm sure there's many others in all respects. I'm sure I'm gonna whine and b$tch about something small( or big) in ep 7 as well....

Originally posted by dadudemon
Well, with how many of the "True Fans" became whiny bitches about the PT, I'm not really concerned at all about what the True Fans think. The True Fans are also seem like the type that don't like Michael Bay Transformers films despite how well they do.


oh wow, so you're a true true fan.

how convenient for you.

Guys, keep it civilised.

The movies are coming. I am still not sure if the three new movies will actually be sequels. We do know that Ep& is a sequel but no the rest.

Personally I think the whole concept of "dark", "gritty", "mature" or even movies that explain stuff is the point. SW is like any other adventure movie: it should be simple, it should be captivating, it should feel real and alive and it should work as a whole. Personally, again, I think the PT failed miserably on those counts. I can only hope EP7 will not. And if it's good, I could see a new SW any day.

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
oh wow, so you're a true true fan.

how convenient for you.

Nope. Just a fan. I don't pretend my love of Star Wars is "better" than other people's.

A pet peeve of mine is when directors make movies literally dark to show how thematically dark and serious the movie is. I'd prefer they lay off the digital tinting controls. Let the screenplay and acting show how dark the themes are.

I agree. Story first, form follows function.

Originally posted by Ace Hambone
A pet peeve of mine is when directors make movies literally dark to show how thematically dark and serious the movie is. I'd prefer they lay off the digital tinting controls. Let the screenplay and acting show how dark the themes are.

What about the green-tint to the Matrix films? Did that also irritate you? I hear/read that it irritated many people.

Matrix tinting didn't bother me as much as some - I'm not sure why.

The rave scenes, on the other hand...

Originally posted by dadudemon
Nope. Just a fan. I don't pretend my love of Star Wars is "better" than other people's.

don't mind me. it's just that those very words "true fan" have often been spoken by people in self-appraisal after self-appraisal with 100% sincerity.

it's a pavlov bell which sends me into a frenzy of growling and snapping.

If your on this forum. You have interest in Star Wars. All has there opinions and most are sound. Star Wars is entertainment, and meant for you....fans are fans from different eras. There are those who will disagree with you, and those who are on the same page. The freedoms we enjoy, can be mutual or argumentative. Guess that's democracy...

Always fun to complain on a particular day, then agree on another day..

Originally posted by JediRobin23
If your on this forum. You have interest in Star Wars. All has there opinions and most are sound. Star Wars is entertainment, and meant for you....fans are fans from different eras. There are those who will disagree with you, and those who are on the same page. The freedoms we enjoy, can be mutual or argumentative. Guess that's democracy...

Always fun to complain on a particular day, then agree on another day.. No, shut up, I agree.

Good stuff

<------ There's only one person who's opinion is right around here.

You and chuck Norris both...

All bow for SMX.

According to my post count, I've been right exactly 7,651 times.

So in all seriousness though, I can't wait for Episode 7.

The only thing I'm reserved about are the spin-off movies.

To me there's a novelty behind waiting several years for a new SW film. I don't want the spin-offs to over-saturate the market or weaken my anticipation for a new movie.

I love the SW universe as part of a singular saga. Can't say I'm eagerly excited for a Boba Fett movie. I will definitely give it a try though.

How many times have you been wrong?

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
lol wut?

It's quite simple. If you don't like something that happens in a series you can chose to ignore it.

For example if you don't like the ending of Digimon Series 2 you can read or write a fanfic that has it end differently and that is the canon to you personally.


Originally posted by dadudemon
The True Fans are also seem like the type that don't like Michael Bay Transformers films despite how well they do.

What, you're saying we should like a film series just because of "how well they do"?

I don't give a filoffal "how well they do." I decide for myself what I like and what I don't. If a movie bombs at the box office but I enjoyed it then guess what, I liked it. If it's a huge hit but I dislike it then you can get stuffed if you think I should like just because a ton of other people do.


Originally posted by dadudemon
I for one hope the Sequel Trilogy performs very well and they deliver a good Star Wars experience.

Maybe it will. I doubt it but maybe the Sequel Trilogy will surprise me.

Originally posted by dadudemon
They enjoy hating popular things.

Correction, we enjoy having our own free will and not mindlessly worshipping popular things just because they're popular.

All I'm saying is think for yourself. If you like something that happens to be popular that's great. But like it because that's what YOU think, not just because a bunch of people tell you to.

Good advice.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
It's quite simple. If you don't like something that happens in a series you can chose to ignore it. Yeah, ignoring it is one thing. Saying it's "not canon" is another. I can ignore traffic laws, but those laws still exist regardless of how I feel about them.

thats kinda what he said though.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
What, you're saying we should like a film series just because of "how well they do"?

Why would you ask a question like this when nothing in my post even remotely suggested this?

Originally posted by chilled monkey
I don't give a filoffal "how well they do." I decide for myself what I like and what I don't.

I don't care how much you do or do not like films I will decide for myself what I like and what I do not.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
If a movie bombs at the box office but I enjoyed it then guess what, I liked it. If it's a huge hit but I dislike it then you can get stuffed if you think I should like just because a ton of other people do.

If a movie does well at the box office but you do not like it, I do not care. Just do not act like your opinion means more than the millions of others, out there. That comes off as being a smug, stuck-up, shitty, moron. No one wants to come off like that (hint: that was my point which you clearly missed).




Originally posted by chilled monkey
Maybe it will. I doubt it but maybe the Sequel Trilogy will surprise me.

Lemme be more clear: I hope it does extremely well and it makes even more people like the Star Wars universe AND I want it to further alienate the smug, stuck-up, shitty, moron types that thought their opinion of the PT was godly, better than everyone else's, and absolute.* I want the Star Wars franchise to drop those types of fans. Hopefully, the ST will be the last straw for them and they will move on to Warhammer or something. lol


*You know this is going to happen but the shitty part about it is...they won't abandon the Star Wars franchise. It will continue to be a way of life, for them. It gives them something to do: complain about how much they didn't like Star Wars and talk down to others who enjoyed the films.


Originally posted by chilled monkey
Correction, we enjoy having our own free will and not mindlessly worshipping popular things just because they're popular.

"We"? So you're grouping yourself with the types that are stuck-up, shitty, smug, morons who think their opinion is better than everyone else's? Why would you want to be associated with those types?

Originally posted by chilled monkey
All I'm saying is think for yourself. If you like something that happens to be popular that's great. But like it because that's what YOU think, not just because a bunch of people tell you to.

Why would you need to tell someone this ever? Maybe if I was 6 years old, this type of talk would be appropriate. "Think for yourself, little Timmy. Do not let others tell you to not like things."

Originally posted by dadudemon

If a movie does well at the box office but you do not like it, I do not care. Just do not act like your opinion means more than ** the millions of others, out there. That comes off as being a smug, stuck-up, shitty, moron. No one wants to come off like that (hint: that was my point which you clearly missed).

** or less than

I am sitting over here in camp skeptical for the time being. My current feeling is that the saga has been done, no reason to make another movie. Will I go see it? Yes, that's a given, I just don't see the need for it.

Originally posted by ~JP~
I am sitting over here in camp skeptical for the time being. My current feeling is that the saga has been done, no reason to make another movie. Will I go see it? Yes, that's a given, I just don't see the need for it.

Yep, agreed. And don't see the need to potentially ruin it...

All things considered, it can't ruin anything that hasn't been already.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
All things considered, it can't ruin anything that hasn't been already.

I can understand feeling like that if you are in the camp that didn't like the prequels. Aside from a few nitpicks, I liked the prequels well enough.

Star Wars is still great with what it is now. Guess it will always be regardless anyway depending on how you look at it. The new movie stories affect the characters, rather then leave it unknown. Like Luke, leia, Han.... Perhaps it's best to put Star Wars in a new direction and just leave these characters for supporting roles. Which I think Jj is doing anyway. Still sucks when ep 1-6 is a story of light/dark then start all over again....

Originally posted by ~JP~
Aside from a few nitpicks, I liked the prequels well enough.


That's how I feel about all 6 films. But I would use the words "loved." My nitpicks about the PT are slightly different than the ST but they are just that: nitpicks that I can overlook.

Well. Im sure jar jar didn't survive to be in ep 7. But you never know. Lol...

Oh jeez, I sincerely hope not.

For me, I was at the perfect age where the PT weren't just movies, they were an experience integrated into my childhood.

I watch TPM and remember the days on the playground playing as Darth Maul or Qui-Gon.

I watch ROTS and remember the earlier days of KMC and all the fun we had here leading up to it.

The PT was a childhood going into adulthood experience for me that I will always cherish forever.

I still have a cardboard cutout of Jar Jar in my bedroom sitting next to my Lisa Ann posters.

Originally posted by Sith Master X

I still have a cardboard cutout of Jar Jar in my bedroom sitting next to my Lisa Ann posters.

Cutout of jar jar? Wow, that's kinda sad....

At least someone likes him I guess....

Originally posted by JediRobin23
Cutout of jar jar? Wow, that's kinda sad....

At least someone likes him I guess.... There's a target market for everything, and he's two posts above this one.

Ouch.

So I guess I'm the only one that would have paid to see a Jar Jar spinoff movie?

I'm 26 and think it would be great.

Oh, SMX, I love you but yeah buddy you are the only person I know who loves that character. And if he brings you great memories, I am totally happy for you.

Oh I love you guys too.

I thought everyone was going to google my Lisa Ann comment in order to realize the Jar Jar thing was a joke.

Originally posted by Sith Master X
Oh I love you guys too.

I thought everyone was going to google my Lisa Ann comment in order to realize the Jar Jar thing was a joke. Is it... is it that she once f*cked a cartoon rabbit that gave her AIDS? Cuz Jar Jar looks filthy.

Lol. Pornstar.

Scary.