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This thread is for discussing mobile electronic devices, their operating systems, their firmeware, etc.



Tablets, mobile phones, and perhaps some laptops.

Recently, Android captured 84.6% of the market share.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2460020/android-grabs-record-85-percent-smartphone-share.html

Knowing this, this puts Apple's release of the larger phone this fall as a clear attempt to stop the loss of their market share in the mobile phone market.

I think the larger iPhone will be a play to get more profit share, which coincidentally will help Apple with the market share numbers.

A pure market share play might be coming in the future. But it's not going to be at the 505+$ ASP level.

Samsung I think is the one really feeling the heat. With Apple squeezing them from the top, and good Chinese manufacturers like Xiaomi, ZTE and Huawei getting to them from the bottom. Apple will be alright, and continue to grow for the foreseeable future, imo.

Also very excited to see what Motorola does under Lenovo, a potential top contender, in my view.

Well, dadudemon, you were correct on Apple viewing the bigger screen as the right thing to go. Not sure I like it, but there it is.

I think I will go get the 4.7 inch display iPhone 6. I have to think a bit more about it, because the iPhone 6 Plus can do some things more, but I'm pretty sure.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Well, dadudemon, you were correct on Apple viewing the bigger screen as the right thing to go. Not sure I like it, but there it is.

I think I will go get the 4.7 inch display iPhone 6. I have to think a bit more about it, because the iPhone 6 Plus can do some things more, but I'm pretty sure.

So wait....they are ditching their old form factor?



The 4 inch is going away?


I saw some of the live broadcast but it was in French.

Yeah, the new iPhones will only be in 4.7" and 5.5"

It will stay around for now in the form of the iPhone 5C and iPhone 5S, but the flagship is all bigger (or very bigger).

Originally posted by dadudemon
Recently, Android captured 84.6% of the market share.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2460020/android-grabs-record-85-percent-smartphone-share.html Excellent.

http://i.imgur.com/O1RUwYs.png

Originally posted by Bardock42
Yeah, the new iPhones will only be in 4.7" and 5.5"

It will stay around for now in the form of the iPhone 5C and iPhone 5S, but the flagship is all bigger (or very bigger).

Well....shit.



Apple, apparently, did some research that led them to conclude that they should get rid of the small form factor. There's no way they would abandon the quite popular smaller form factor unless the results were very strong for them. This is not something I thought they would do.


But, Apple has a different approach to business: they keep the number of models very low to reduce their manufacturing costs (greatly). So they mass produce (which requires several 3rd party manus to participate) tens of millions of the same exact model. Dat savvy business model...

Apple has managed to position itself as a 'luxury' brand with their marketing tactics.
It's the same thing that Rolex did.

Both these models will sell like hotcakes, on the virtue that they are Apple-branded.
Coupled by the fact that they are the first mobile company (I know not many technically-savvy people are aware of this) that has completely transitioned their OS to be fully optimized to 64-bit.

Like their predessors, these models will be faster and more efficient than ANY flagship Android counterpart that is or will be available in the foreseeable future (unless Qualcomm makes a fully compatible 64-bit in less than a month to compete with the 5s/6/6 Plus, which I highly doubt).

Apple isn't really pure luxury like Rolex though. It's affordable luxury. That's a big difference. You are right that it is a status symbol, but they are also extremely well made machines. The comparison that I always find the most astute is German "luxury" car manufacturers. Apple is the BMW oder Mercedes Benz of smartphones, while, say Samsung, is more like the Toyota (also perfectly suitable machines, but you get something extra with that "luxury" brand)

You make a good point about the 64 bit, too. Apple's business model grants them that advantage, they have now the second flagship phone on a 64 bit architecture (I remember Qualcomm was dismissive initially at the 64 bit, calling it a gimmick, until a week later they announced they had their own sometime next year). Next year they likely won't be selling a phone that does not have a 64 bit processor (well, we'll see what happens with the 5C). Android, afaik, has not one flagship phone that runs on 64 bit, the transition will take much, much longer, and likely even longer for Windows Phone. These are advantages that put Apple's hardware even ahead on a specs race (which is uncommon, Apple is more about integrating the top of the line in a more complete way).

Originally posted by Bardock42
Apple isn't really pure luxury like Rolex though. It's affordable luxury. That's a big difference. You are right that it is a status symbol, but they are also extremely well made machines. The comparison that I always find the most astute is German "luxury" car manufacturers. Apple is the BMW oder Mercedes Benz of smartphones, while, say Samsung, is more like the Toyota (also perfectly suitable machines, but you get something extra with that "luxury" brand)

You make a good point about the 64 bit, too. Apple's business model grants them that advantage, they have now the second flagship phone on a 64 bit architecture (I remember Qualcomm was dismissive initially at the 64 bit, calling it a gimmick, until a week later they announced they had their own sometime next year). Next year they likely won't be selling a phone that does not have a 64 bit processor (well, we'll see what happens with the 5C). Android, afaik, has not one flagship phone that runs on 64 bit, the transition will take much, much longer, and likely even longer for Windows Phone. These are advantages that put Apple's hardware even ahead on a specs race (which is uncommon, Apple is more about integrating the top of the line in a more complete way).

There is a Windows Phone that is going to be released with a 64-bit architecture.

Also, Android phones have been on the slab for 64-bit architecture, for a while, but I am not sure if they have 64-bit phones on the market or not.

Yeah, 64 bit is coming out slowly on Android and Windows Phone. But like I said, I don't think there's any flagship phones out with a 64 bit chip of either of those. And the transition away from 32 bit, will take a while still, for them.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Apple isn't really pure luxury like Rolex though. It's affordable luxury. That's a big difference. You are right that it is a status symbol, but they are also extremely well made machines. The comparison that I always find the most astute is German "luxury" car manufacturers. Apple is the BMW oder Mercedes Benz of smartphones, while, say Samsung, is more like the Toyota (also perfectly suitable machines, but you get something extra with that "luxury" brand)
That's what I meant.

Both brands (Apple and Rolex) are viewed as status symbols.
And both brands use marketing tactics to increase the demand and price for their respective products.

Rolex wasn't a luxury watchmaker back in the early days.
They were a small company that made cheap divers watches.
And Hamilton (a low-tier Swiss watchmaker nowadays) used to be on par with Patek Philippe.
Just to make my point clear that marketing strategies can make or break the demand for items deemed "luxurious".

I ordered the iPhone 6 (64GB, Space Gray). Should get it on or around release day. The shipping date is now up to 3-4 weeks.

Really excited.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I ordered the iPhone 6 (64GB, Space Gray). Should get it on or around release day. The shipping date is now up to 3-4 weeks.

Really excited.

Awesome.

It is.

Heard a rumor that maybe the Retina iPad Mini won't be updated this year. Would be very disappointed if that was true.

I have my iPhone 6 now, w00

How is the performance?

I ordered the iPhone 6 Plus from a relative in Dubai.
She promised me that she won't open the package. Will receive it by October.
But I want to hear your experience with the iPhone 6 (I assume the 6 Plus variant would have the same UI experience).

I had the iPhone 6 for 4 days now, and I am very happy with it. Like I said in the other thread, performance is excellent with everything I tested, however it hasn't been an issue with the 5S either. The A7 chip was already plenty fast and the A8 is even better, but nothing really takes advantage of it yet. That means that currently the only big advantages of the iPhone 6 over the 5S are a) the big screen, which is lovely, it's a really good screen, obviously not the highest resolution on the market, but the colors are excellent and it's plenty sharp with the ~320 ppi and b) the camera improvements, in particular the 240fps slow motion is mind bogglingly cool.

I like to start over fresh when I get a new phone, so I only have my essential apps on it right now, but over the year I have it, I'm sure it'll get more cluttered again.

There are a lot of features I think are generally great on iPhones (at least 5S and up). For example I really love Touch ID, I like to have a longer password on my iPhone and for the App Store, and Touch ID saves me a load of time when I want to buy something or just log into my phone. And with iOS 8 developers can now use that sensor as well, so that's cool. Obviously I'm a big fan of the design, it just feels nicer than any other phone I ever owned. And the selection in the App Store is amazing, the apps are, imo, considerably better than the ones Android has to offer (however, most of the best ones are paid in some way or another).

iOS 8 also brought a lot of new features, a lot of them for developers, so that we'll see a lot of cool new stuff on the iPhone soon. Many of these features existed in some way on Android before, but that's just the different priorities of Google/Samsung/etc. and Apple. I really like third party keyboards and use Swype constantly. Through extensions sharing has gotten a lot easier and better, that was an aspect where Android was vastly superior, although there were good enough work arounds even before. Widgets in the Notification Center are pretty cool, I'm looking forward to seeing more from developers.

I had a couple problems and annoyances as well, most of them should get fixed in time, as we get to iOS 8.1 and so on, but I should mention them. On the iPhone 6 I sometimes get a bug where it won't find my wifi network anymore, it just keeps searching for it, so far the only way I found to fix it was a quick restart. Also, sometimes Notifications stay around for a couple extra seconds and I'm not able to dismiss them with a swipe up as usual, I assume that has to do with the new answering straight from a message. On the iPhone 5S with iOS 8 I had an issue where the third party keyboard Swype wouldn't show up, but on the iPhone 6 it works. And well, NFC won't be open to developers initially and just work with Apple Pay, which makes it virtually useless in Germany (and also in the Middle East) currently.

The iPhone 6 Plus UI is actually a little different than the iPhone 6. In portrait they are the same, but in landscape there will be more information displayed sometimes. That means you may have a list of your email on the left, and the email content on the right, where you'd only have one of these screens on the iPhone 6. In essence, in landscape it behaves a bit more like an iPad.

If you want I can give you a quick overview of the apps I use and how I use the phone for work and fun as well. But maybe you can tell me what you want to use your smartphone for, first.

Oh and last, a screenshot of my home screen (as it was on saturday):

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa158/Bardock42/Photo20-09-14121646_zpsa1090cd0.png

Oh, also

Originally posted by Inhuman
http://i.imgur.com/O1RUwYs.png

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa158/Bardock42/Screenshot2014-09-22210228_zps124e586d.png

By the way, I read your review and liked it, Bardock.

Since I do not have a like button, I could not indicate that to you. So I must type this message so you can know.

Thank you. But it was mostly just what came to my mind in response to Asbestos asking. If I were to review it I'd try to put in some more effort.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Thank you. But it was mostly just what came to my mind in response to Asbestos asking. If I were to review it I'd try to put in some more effort.

Please do so.

Perhaps I will on my blog later.

Okay.

Oh no! The iPhone 6 Plus seems to be prone to bending.

znK652H6yQM
FwM4ypi3at0


I need to demand a refund asap.
Probably gonna have to switch with Samsung Note 3 or 4.

Get the Note 4. Same power and features as the iPhone...but it actually has more power and features.


http://www.cnet.com/news/iphone-6-plus-specs-versus-samsung-galaxy-note-4-lg-g3/


Check that chart out.


If a great phone with great features that is not going to break when you drop it (or bend in your pocket) is what you want, the Note 4 is a better choice.

I personally wouldn't worry, I think this is another story blown out of proportion that won't matter in the long run (Antennagate, Apple Maps, etc.). Obviously they can bend with enough force applied, but it shouldn't be an issue in normal usage. If you think it may affect you though it's probably a good idea to get something else. (or get an Otter Box case). But yeah, play around with it for a bit see if you actually think it's a problem for you.

Specs are probably slightly better in some respects on the Note 4, but performance will likely be worse. And the Android ecosystem is just not as good imo.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I personally wouldn't worry, I think this is another story blown out of proportion that won't matter in the long run (Antennagate, Apple Maps, etc.). Obviously they can bend with enough force applied, but it shouldn't be an issue in normal usage. If you think it may affect you though it's probably a good idea to get something else. (or get an Otter Box case). But yeah, play around with it for a bit see if you actually think it's a problem for you.

Yes, all of the people b*tching about the iPhone bending should get an Otter-box case: that was my first thought with seeing the bendy stuff. People, like my wife, cannot stand the Android UI and love the shit out of the Apple UI. Those people should be highly satisfied with iOS 8 and the new iPhones.

Also, there are some people that do not like covers for their phones. They hate them. This is a dealbreaker for them (or they will just have to suck it up and buy something like an Otterbox cover). Apple really is going to lose some business over this and they probably already have.


But if power, features, and durability are what people look for in a phone, the Galaxy Note 4 is a better choice. My Note 3 is much more durable than these iPhone 6s and 6+s. Already, 2 screens have broken on them, here at work. Not sure why the screens are shattering so easily.


Edit -

CNET already did some durability testing with the new iPhone:

http://www.cnet.com/news/apples-touch-id-still-vulnerable-to-hack-security-researcher-finds/


edit 2 - But it looks like my coworkers suck, massively. Most tests are not cracking screens. My coworkers must be throwing them on the ground.

I agree with durability in some ways (although there are also tests that call the iPhone 6 one of the most durable phones out there, particular screen wise), like I said I don't think the Note 4 will actually be more powerful, and it obviously lacks a lot of iOS only features (and vice versa).

Also, I think you sent the wrong link.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Specs are probably slightly better in some respects on the Note 4, but performance will likely be worse. And the Android ecosystem is just not as good imo.

I think that performance will go to the Note 4 in performance tests (graphics, CPU, etc.). Usually, it is the best phone when released, by a significant margin. I do not see why they would not continue this trend.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Get the Note 4. Same power and features as the iPhone...but it actually has more power and features.


http://www.cnet.com/news/iphone-6-plus-specs-versus-samsung-galaxy-note-4-lg-g3/


Check that chart out.


If a great phone with great features that is not going to break when you drop it (or bend in your pocket) is what you want, the Note 4 is a better choice.

Oh, also I find these kind of spec sheets just don't show a very good picture for comparison at all. For example, yes the iPhone has NFC technically, but you can't actually use it, so it could as well be a no. The resolution and size of the screen also don't give a good picture of how good the screen is, how is the color accuracy, contrast, etc...

Same with camera is 16 MP necessarily better than 8? Obviously not, there'd need to be a more in depth comparison.

Spec sheet comparisons like that just aren't a very good indicator of things, imo.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I think that performance will go to the Note 4 in performance tests (graphics, CPU, etc.). Usually, it is the best phone when released, by a significant margin. I do not see why they would not continue this trend.

Well, it always depends what benchmarks you want to look at. Here are some preliminary results for the iPhones (and they look pretty damn impressive) http://www.anandtech.com/show/8559/iphone-6-and-iphone-6-plus-preliminary-results

Looking forward to seeing anandtech test the Note 4, too.

I really like this guy:

s3QcOSyD38M

Originally posted by Bardock42
Oh, also I find these kind of spec sheets just don't show a very good picture for comparison at all. For example, yes the iPhone has NFC technically, but you can't actually use it, so it could as well be a no. The resolution and size of the screen also don't give a good picture of how good the screen is, how is the color accuracy, contrast, etc...

Same with camera is 16 MP necessarily better than 8? Obviously not, there'd need to be a more in depth comparison.

Spec sheet comparisons like that just aren't a very good indicator of things, imo.


I find these kinds of spec sheets to be very useful and are highly comparable mostly because they are.

The NFC thing is well known and Apple plans to expand that, in the future. An asterisk should be put next to it, for sure. But it is not fair to say Apple does not have NFC.

The color and contrast is arbitrary because I remember reading that customers thought the Galaxy Note (one) had a better display than the iPhone 4 and it was horribly off from a proper calibration whereas the iPhone 4 was literally the best phone (in accuracy) of its time. The resolution questions answer what most people want to know: can I play x video with y resolution or can I put a wallpaper on my phone with y resolution.


I do agree with the camera stuff, though: those comparisons are sometimes not equatable.

For example, here is a super fan of the Galaxy Note series giving accolades to the new iPhone (he has a clear bias for the Galaxy Note but he still lauds the iPhone with spades of flowery language...meaning there is no denying that the cameras cannot be directly compared despite the Note 3 having a higher pixel count).

http://www.cnet.com/news/iphone-6-plus-vs-samsung-galaxy-note-3-cameras-compared/

But, yeah, that comparison list is very helpful and almost all fields are useful.


For instance:

Display size
Pixel density
Dimensions
Weight
Capacity
Storage Slots
Battery (and whether or not is is supposed to be removable)
Bluetooth version and capability
NFC capability
Water proofing


Those all seem like excellent comparisons. If Apple would stop being such bitches about how they do RAM then we could even more adequately compare those two. Since we know Apple doesn't put much RAM into their phones (which has a few jimmies rustled regarding the multi-tasking and keeping many things open at the same time), of course Apple doesn't release that information. It's 1 gig, by the way. Also, we know the battery in the iPhone 6 is 1810 mAh. I think how the OSs and CPUs handle battery life is important and many spec sheets include battery life numbers so you can get an idea of the efficiency: the iPhone wins that comparison and it should be noted, imo.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I really like this guy:

s3QcOSyD38M


This guy reminds me of Lestov: skinny black dude who is smart and well-spoken.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I find these kinds of spec sheets to be very useful and are highly comparable mostly because they are.

The NFC thing is well known and Apple plans to expand that, in the future. An asterisk should be put next to it, for sure. But it is not fair to say Apple does not have NFC.

The color and contrast is arbitrary because I remember reading that customers thought the Galaxy Note (one) had a better display than the iPhone 4 and it was horribly off from a proper calibration whereas the iPhone 4 was literally the best phone (in accuracy) of its time. The resolution questions answer what most people want to know: can I play x video with y resolution or can I put a wallpaper on my phone with y resolution.


I do agree with the camera stuff, though: those comparisons are sometimes not equatable.

For example, here is a super fan of the Galaxy Note series giving accolades to the new iPhone (he has a clear bias for the Galaxy Note but he still lauds the iPhone with spades of flowery language...meaning there is no denying that the cameras cannot be directly compared despite the Note 3 having a higher pixel count).

http://www.cnet.com/news/iphone-6-plus-vs-samsung-galaxy-note-3-cameras-compared/

But, yeah, that comparison list is very helpful and almost all fields are useful.


For instance:

Display size
Pixel density
Dimensions
Weight
Capacity
Storage Slots
Battery (and whether or not is is supposed to be removable)
Bluetooth version and capability
NFC capability
Water proofing


Those all seem like excellent comparisons. If Apple would stop being such bitches about how they do RAM then we could even more adequately compare those two. Since we know Apple doesn't put much RAM into their phones (which has a few jimmies rustled regarding the multi-tasking and keeping many things open at the same time), of course Apple doesn't release that information. It's 1 gig, by the way. Also, we know the battery in the iPhone 6 is 1810 mAh. I think how the OSs and CPUs handle battery life is important and many spec sheets include battery life numbers so you can get an idea of the efficiency: the iPhone wins that comparison and it should be noted, imo.

Well that's sort of what I mean, they are all numbers that have some sort of use. But if you actually want the whole story, you need to dig deeper, and get a better understanding of all the aspects.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I really like this guy:

s3QcOSyD38M
I don't give a **** about 10+ mil sales

First things first, I don't want a phone that bends under normal pressure. Especially since I own some skinny pants.
And I'm NOT gonna buy those brick-sized Otter boxes.

I think Apple messed up with the weak aluminum build with this one.
Should've spent more on R&D for the device instead of rushing out a phablet to compete with the Note 4.

It doesn't bend under "normal" pressure, though.

There were a couple of reports of it lightly bending in a front pocket (though I haven't seen any conclusive ones), but the video that everyone talks about is a guy actively, with full force, trying to bend the phone for an extended period of time.

I mean, buy what you want, but this is not really going to be an issue in real use.

Originally posted by Bardock42
It doesn't bend under "normal" pressure, though.

There were a couple of reports of it lightly bending in a front pocket (though I haven't seen any conclusive ones), but the video that everyone talks about is a guy actively, with full force, trying to bend the phone for an extended period of time.

I don't consider an out-of-show, self-described as a hipster, fat guy as a good comparison to other people when terms like "full-force" are being used.

Additionally, if you were to wear skinny jeans and bend down to sit, you probably exert far more force than that guy did with his fingers.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I mean, buy what you want, but this is not really going to be an issue in real use.

You cannot just hand wave all the whiners who are b*tching about their phones bending. It's a real problem. When techblogs like CNET are recommending you don't put your phone in your back pocket and/or sit on it, clearly, that's a problem. A serious problem.

I don't doubt that there has been a lot of reporting on it. I just find that the reporting I read had little substance, and previous "-gate" reporting whenever a new iPhone is release just makes it seem likely to me that this is a far overblown story.

I'd suggest to Asbestos, since he already ordered an iPhone, to just try it out, see if he thinks it actually is an issue. Because the tech echo-chamber is not usually a great way to find accurate information when it comes to these kinds of stories.

Apple says the number of complaints to them has been less than 10.

http://techcrunch.com/2014/09/25/apple-says-iphone-6-and-6-plus-bending-complaints-number-less-than-10/

I suppose you can call bullshit on them or believe it or whatever, but tbh, I am pretty sure this will join Antennagate, Mapgate and Scuffgate as overblown reporting of minor issues on new iPhone devices. I guess the real question is, what's going to be the "-gate" for the iPhone 6S

Problem now is how the heck do I return/refund it lol.

Return policy in UAE is not the same as in the US.
You can't ask for refund for a newly purchased item unless it's malfunctioning/damaged unintentionally.

^^^
Yeah, I call BS on that one.
Apple's aluminum chassis is significantly weaker than HTC/Nokia/Motorola's magnesium/kevlar-enforced chassis, hence it will get bent sooner or later.

Well, if you can't give it back and chose to use it you'd probably be happy with it anyways.


But if not that, maybe you can resell it for the same price you paid anyways.

So I thought I would ask this here. My phone contract runs out on the 12th of December and I am going to upgrade it.

I've had iPhones since they first came out so I haven't ever used an Android phone. But I am slowly becoming bored of the Apple products. They do brilliant with tablets but with phones they are lacking.

One thing that would help me would be apps. My little brother is autistic and is obsessed with my phone. He has got on here once and typed in a bunch of letters on a comic post. It also stops me from having things such as Facebook or whatsapp on my phone due to me with Apple not being able to password protect them. So really I'd love if on Android there was an app that password protected your texts certain apps and music. That would be brilliant.

So I was wondering what phone to get. I had been looking at the HTC One M8. But I am aware there are others such as the LG G3 or the Xperia Z3. So I just wondered if possible people on here could share there opinions on what their favourite Android phone is or what one they are looking at getting for whatever reason.

My favourite Android phone, by far, is the Moto X. It has a fantastic design, great performance, no bloated features, but a couple actually useful ones, simple, almost stock Android OS. And it doesn't cost as much as other high end phones.

But get an iPhone, really.


Oh, also, not sure if this app still works or is still updated, but it looks to do what you want app password wise: http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/how-to/google-android/3340783/how-password-protect-android-apps/

Have you tried iOS "Restrictions" though? Maybe that'd work for you.

Originally posted by Bardock42
My favourite Android phone, by far, is the Moto X. It has a fantastic design, great performance, no bloated features, but a couple actually useful ones, simple, almost stock Android OS. And it doesn't cost as much as other high end phones.

But get an iPhone, really.


Oh, also, not sure if this app still works or is still updated, but it looks to do what you want app password wise: http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/how-to/google-android/3340783/how-password-protect-android-apps/

Have you tried iOS "Restrictions" though? Maybe that'd work for you.

Yep tried it before. But it's no use as my brother just changes it back again. He knows everything to do with my phone how to work it and he's 4. Trouble is as he has the mind of a 2 year old he goes onto random websites and sends random messages to people. I can't really stop him either way.

I have to remove all my contacts everyday then add them back when he is asleep.

But what you sent me looks really good. I'll take a look at it.

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
Yep tried it before. But it's no use as my brother just changes it back again. He knows everything to do with my phone how to work it and he's 4. Trouble is as he has the mind of a 2 year old he goes onto random websites and sends random messages to people. I can't really stop him either way.

I have to remove all my contacts everyday then add them back when he is asleep.

But what you sent me looks really good. I'll take a look at it.
You can try an app called Smart App Lock (App Protector) by SpSoft.

I'm using it on my Galaxy S5 and it gets the job done, so far.

http://www.theverge.com/2014/9/25/6845611/inside-apples-iphone-6-torture-building

Also a pretty good piece.

#bendgate is really just another tempest in a teapot.

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
You can try an app called Smart App Lock (App Protector) by SpSoft.

I'm using it on my Galaxy S5 and it gets the job done, so far.

Okay thanks. I'll have a look at that.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Apple says the number of complaints to them has been less than 10.

http://techcrunch.com/2014/09/25/apple-says-iphone-6-and-6-plus-bending-complaints-number-less-than-10/

I suppose you can call bullshit on them or believe it or whatever, but tbh, I am pretty sure this will join Antennagate, Mapgate and Scuffgate as overblown reporting of minor issues on new iPhone devices. I guess the real question is, what's going to be the "-gate" for the iPhone 6S

Unless all 9 people are in the comments on that same article, it's clearly bullshit. They are either lying or the extreme majority of people are just going through the retailers and not talking to Apple directly.

Edit - And this does not address why 2 out of 11 coworkers who go the new iPhones have broken (cracked) screens, already. Well, 1 of them already got theirs replaced so now we are down to 1 cracked phone.

I guess we'll see in time whether it is a significant problem.

More evidence that #bendgate is blown out of proportion.

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2014/09/consumer-reports-tests-iphone-6-bendgate/index.htm

Originally posted by Bardock42
More evidence that #bendgate is blown out of proportion.

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2014/09/consumer-reports-tests-iphone-6-bendgate/index.htm
Oh, please.
They used an Instron machine for the test.

A more realistic test would be to place the phones in the front pockets of someone wearing skinny jeans and having the individual sit for a prolonged period of time in intervals for a few days.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/anthonykosner/2014/09/27/bendgate-unbent-apple-and-viral-iphone-6-plus-bender-are-both-right/

The most reasonable answer to this issue I've read.

http://9to5google.com/2014/09/29/samsung-note-4-screen-gap-screengate/

lol, Samsung's Note 4 (at least some of them) has a gap between the frame and display...

Now they are claiming it's a "feature"....

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
Oh, please.
They used an Instron machine for the test.

A more realistic test would be to place the phones in the front pockets of someone wearing skinny jeans and having the individual sit for a prolonged period of time in intervals for a few days.

If this supposed bending only happens with people wearing skinny jeans and pocketing the phone for extended periods of time, I really don't see how that is Apple's fault.

IMO, a manufacturing flaw should be when something breaks/goes wrong with the product under normal and/or reasonable conditions.

Originally posted by Robtard
If this supposed bending only happens with people wearing skinny jeans and pocketing the phone for extended periods of time, I really don't see how that is Apple's fault.

Hipsters often wear skinny jeans and buy Apple products in droves. The new phones are also larger which would not have presented problems for some people had they been the same size as the older models (meaning, more people are going to experience more stress on their phones than before because the phones are bigger).

Weakening your phone, greatly, does not seem like a good idea especially if it is going to be bigger.

It would be similar to Jeep making Jeep Wrangler with a support frame that is less than half as strong as a previous year's model and then people start scoffing when outdoorsmen start complaining about slight to moderate bends in the frame. Clearly, that is unacceptable. Sure, the Jeep may still drive just fine, but it's stupid to think the customer's should just suck it up.

Originally posted by Robtard
IMO, a manufacturing flaw should be when something breaks/goes wrong with the product under normal and/or reasonable conditions.

A phone bending in your pocket is sounds exactly like a engineering design problem (not a manufacturing flaw) because phones spend a crap-ton of time in pockets.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Hipsters often wear skinny jeans and buy Apple products in droves. The new phones are also larger which would not have presented problems for some people had they been the same size as the older models (meaning, more people are going to experience more stress on their phones than before because the phones are bigger).

Weakening your phone, greatly, does not seem like a good idea especially if it is going to be bigger.

It would be similar to Jeep making Jeep Wrangler with a support frame that is less than half as strong as a previous year's model and then people start scoffing when outdoorsmen start complaining about slight to moderate bends in the frame. Clearly, that is unacceptable. Sure, the Jeep may still drive just fine, but it's stupid to think the customer's should just suck it up.

A phone bending in your pocket is sounds exactly like a engineering design problem (not a manufacturing flaw) because phones spend a crap-ton of time in pockets.

I'm under the impression that his only happens with skinny jean wearing ? Which tells me it's not really a manufacturing flaw. If this is happening a lot across regardless of the pants/pockets people wear, sure, I'd then blame Apple for putting out a subpar product.

Kudos on the automotive analogy.

Originally posted by Robtard
I'm under the impression that his only happens with skinny jean wearing ?

Yes, it seems to be hitting those types the hardest because they are whining the loudest on the internet about it.

It is not limited to skinny jean wearers, though. Normal dudes and dudettes who put the phones in their back pocket and sit on their phones, experience this issue, too. That's understandable because there is probably far more than 70lbs being put on some of those phones by those hairy, sweaty asses.

Originally posted by Robtard
Which tells me it's not really a manufacturing flaw.

I don't think it is manufacturing flaw, either. Seems to be a design flaw: that's how they wanted it to be designed. I talk about that more, below.

Originally posted by Robtard
If this is happening a lot across regardless of the pants/pockets people wear, sure, I'd then blame Apple for putting out a subpar product.

In that case, I believe we agree. Their iPhone 5 was pretty ****ing stout. I remember when it came out, tech blogs talked about how strong, expensive, and sturdy it felt. Why they felt the need to deviate from that quality, I have no idea. This is a PR nightmare for Apple.

I think this time around, Apple cut too many corners. For probably less than $2 more per phone, they could have fixed the less-than-satisfactory weakness.


If the Galaxy Note doesn't fix the gap between the case and the screen bezel, you can bet your sweet ass I'll be all over Samsung. I'll skip the Note 4 if they don't fix it.

This advert makes me cringe:

O99m7lebirE


Based on how major electronic product lines work, in 2012, when this commercial was made, they already were working on the larger iPhone 6's. Based on SDLCs work for large corporations like these, they were already working on GUI-related iOS stuff that would fit on the larger screens and larger resolution.


This kind of cringe-worthy commercial is even more cringe-worthy if you realize they are pretty much making fun of themselves. Seems like satire when you realize they were already working on larger screens.


Edit - Also, I can't resist:

"According to a recent study conducted by Apple, the average hand size of adults has increased 37.5% in the past two years."


Edit 2 - Here is Apple's solution to the bigger screen (which almost makes up for the cringey commericial where it seems like they are making fun of themselves):

7l_MpTMkK00

Not bad, right?

But...
YGB2yDEjwnk

Samsung already did it over a year ago...

Apple usually makes great phones that combine great ideas. Can't fault them for it.

Apple is definitely not above taking ideas and putting their own spin on it. Steve Jobs famously said "Good artists copy, great artists steal"

I suppose they consider Samsung's copying not to be putting its own spin on anything, but trying to recreate something pixel by pixel, as supported by the famous 100 page, side by side comparison that Samsung had for its designer internally. I personally am against any software patents, though.

Again, "#bendgate" is about perspective, obviously it is a trade off that Apple (possibly unwittingly) made. The question is whether it is a trade off consumers are willing to make. I personally would be. It doesn't seem to be a big deal in practice, as AsbestosFlaygon's link points out.

Not Mobile or Portable Electronics per se, but Consumer Electronics:


2013 April Fool's Joke
http://www.infoworld.com/article/2613504/microsoft-windows/microsoft-windows-microsoft-skips-too-good-windows-9-jumps-to-windows-10.html

2014 Actual Announcement
http://www.theverge.com/2014/9/30/6868695/microsoft-windows-10-announced-official

Originally posted by Bardock42
Apple is definitely not above taking ideas and putting their own spin on it. Steve Jobs famously said "Good artists copy, great artists steal"

I definitely do not fault them for it. I like that about them. My entire business approach is very similar: I take great ideas and I make them better OR I come up with great ideas and I work with people to make them better. If I criticized Apple for doing the same thing I do, I would be a hypocrite and generally just a shitty person.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I suppose they consider Samsung's copying not to be putting its own spin on anything, but trying to recreate something pixel by pixel, as supported by the famous 100 page, side by side comparison that Samsung had for its designer internally. I personally am against any software patents, though.

Explain more of this. I don't quite know what you're trying to say. What are you talking about with the 100 page side by side comparison? I am not being facetious or trying to look for an argument; I genuinely don't know what you're trying to say.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Again, "#bendgate" is about perspective, obviously it is a trade off that Apple (possibly unwittingly) made. The question is whether it is a trade off consumers are willing to make. I personally would be. It doesn't seem to be a big deal in practice, as AsbestosFlaygon's link points out.

Bendgate does not affect me, at all. If or when I buy the bigger iPhone plus, I will buy a cover. I ALWAYS buy phone covers the day of my purchase. Here's why: I am rough and tough with my mobile electronics. It would be foolish of me not to get a cover. My iPhone 5, which I got last year, had an otterbox they same day I got the phone...from the same store, at the same time I got the phone...

Sure, I spent $50 on the otterbox cover but it is worth it.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Not Mobile or Portable Electronics per se, but Consumer Electronics:


2013 April Fool's Joke
http://www.infoworld.com/article/2613504/microsoft-windows/microsoft-windows-microsoft-skips-too-good-windows-9-jumps-to-windows-10.html

2014 Actual Announcement
http://www.theverge.com/2014/9/30/6868695/microsoft-windows-10-announced-official

This...this is incredible. I remember that prank, too. Why I didn't remember it when they announced it, yesterday, I have no idea.


Also, I was thinking about posting the Windows 10 announcement but since it was not mobile or portable electronics, I decided to forgo it.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I definitely do not fault them for it. I like that about them. My entire business approach is very similar: I take great ideas and I make them better OR I come up with great ideas and I work with people to make them better. If I criticized Apple for doing the same thing I do, I would be a hypocrite and generally just a shitty person.

Yeah, there's a pretty cool video series on that topic: Everything is a Remix


Originally posted by dadudemon
Explain more of this. I don't quite know what you're trying to say. What are you talking about with the 100 page side by side comparison? I am not being facetious or trying to look for an argument; I genuinely don't know what you're trying to say.

I am referencing this document, that came to light during the Apple/Samsung trial (the one with the initial billion dollar judgment against Samsung)

Originally posted by dadudemon
Bendgate does not affect me, at all. If or when I buy the bigger iPhone plus, I will buy a cover. I ALWAYS buy phone covers the day of my purchase. Here's why: I am rough and tough with my mobile electronics. It would be foolish of me not to get a cover. My iPhone 5, which I got last year, had an otterbox they same day I got the phone...from the same store, at the same time I got the phone...

Sure, I spent $50 on the otterbox cover but it is worth it.


I always buy cases as well, I just feel more comfortable with them. Not sure whether I mentioned it, but I am going to get the Safe Wallet case, when they come out for the iPhone 6 in the next couple months. I am very excited about trying that, I hope I can eliminate carrying a wallet altogether.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I always buy cases as well, I just feel more comfortable with them. Not sure whether I mentioned it, but I am going to get the Safe Wallet case, when they come out for the iPhone 6 in the next couple months. I am very excited about trying that, I hope I can eliminate carrying a wallet altogether.

I like that, might just get one of those if I do get the 5. Not having a wallet would be nice.

More on the Apple Watch: http://www.ablogtowatch.com/apple-watch-hands-on-review/

Really interesting piece. And the guy who wrote it was also on a podcast (which is also very interesting)

http://www.resolvepodcast.com/episodes/2014/9/30/apple-watch-the-21st-century-wristwatch

I'm getting really excited about the Apple Watch.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Yeah, there's a pretty cool video series on that topic: Everything is a Remix

Seen it...but it is a good point.




Originally posted by Bardock42
I am referencing this document, that came to light during the Apple/Samsung trial (the one with the initial billion dollar judgment against Samsung)

I know exactly what you're referencing but I am not sure how it fits into context with what we were talking about, exactly. I see a vague similarity but it is just not clicking for me.




Originally posted by Bardock42
I always buy cases as well, I just feel more comfortable with them. Not sure whether I mentioned it, but I am going to get the Safe Wallet case, when they come out for the iPhone 6 in the next couple months. I am very excited about trying that, I hope I can eliminate carrying a wallet altogether.


That's a cool feech. I want it, too.

Originally posted by dadudemon

I know exactly what you're referencing but I am not sure how it fits into context with what we were talking about, exactly. I see a vague similarity but it is just not clicking for me.

Hmm, I guess I think a lot of Samsung's copying is more exact, 1 to 1 copying, rather than taking inspiration and improving upon it. Which I find gross, but don't think should be illegal.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Hmm, I guess I think a lot of Samsung's copying is more exact, 1 to 1 copying, rather than taking inspiration and improving upon it. Which I find gross, but don't think should be illegal.

Oh. That's what you meant. See, I totally did not pick that up from what you were talking about. In fact, it looked like you were saying the opposite and implying Samsung is better at innovating because they build stuff, from the ground up, pixel by pixel (which made no sense even out of context...because software stuff is not built from the ground up, pixel by pixel).

http://techcrunch.com/2014/09/30/samsung-galaxy-note-4-suffering-from-gapgate/

”The reported issue does not impact the functionality or quality of the Galaxy Note 4,” an official Samsung spokesperson told us. “We assure our customers that all Galaxy Note 4 units meet our strict manufacturing and quality control standards.”

Pathetic excuse by Samsung.
Fix your shit, please.

This time around, I shall be waiting for the Sony Xperia Z3X instead.

nCln9_mgZJo

This video (starts at the 1 minute mark, there's an ad before) compares how fast these phones are starting a couple of apps, going back to the homescreen, and the restarting them. The iPhone 6 (despite considerably less RAM) does a lot better than the M8 and the S5. tbh, that's also been my experience, iPhones are just faster in the way that counts, real life usage.

Originally posted by Bardock42
The iPhone 6 (despite considerably less RAM) does a lot better than the M8 and the S5. tbh, that's also been my experience, iPhones are just faster in the way that counts, real life usage.
The speed/performance depend on the settings and the way the apps run through the OS.

iOS and Android have very different ways of running apps.
iOS automagically exits the app when you press the home button, but in Android, some apps/processes still run in the background until you close the task completely in the task manager. These running processes consume RAM which affects the overall performance of the device.

It should be noted to the video link you posted above, that the S5 and One M8 both run a larger, higher resolution display with a higher pixel count. Hence there will be slowdowns.

The Touchwiz/SenseUI overlay bogs it down as well (vanilla Android is less cluttered and runs the VM faster).

There's a technique to make Android faster. Just turn off all the animations in Developer Options (no root needed), and it will be just about as fast as iPhone.

Hmm, that's not exactly correct anymore. iOS actually has a similar multitasking to Android. Apps do not exit when you press the home button, unless the phone runs out of memory, in which case it closes an app that's running in the background. It does limit what apps can do in the background, which is part of why apps are more efficient on iOS. What the video shows, is that iOS is better (and more efficient) at keeping states in RAM, which is why these apps open faster. Photoshop in particular had to be reloaded on the M8, while it was still available running in the background in iOS. This is even though the iPhone 6 only has 1GB of RAM, while the Android devices have 2GB, I believe.

You are correct that they have bigger, higher resolution displays, that's a trade off they decided to make, and it's definitely part of why, even though Android phones often have spec wise better CPUs their real world usage is more sluggish (Only part of it, there's many other reasons, for example the skins that you mentioned, but also the whole architecture of Android, there's a reason why Google has said their next version Android OS will eliminate the sluggishness and close the gap to iOS every Google IO for the last 3 years at least (Project Butter, Project Svelte, etc.)

It would be interesting to see a comparison of the two phones and others with the iPhone 6 Plus, which has a 1080p screen as well.

Originally posted by Bardock42
nCln9_mgZJo

This video (starts at the 1 minute mark, there's an ad before) compares how fast these phones are starting a couple of apps, going back to the homescreen, and the restarting them. The iPhone 6 (despite considerably less RAM) does a lot better than the M8 and the S5. tbh, that's also been my experience, iPhones are just faster in the way that counts, real life usage.

Looks like Android is getting lazy with their OS handling. Meaning, it looks like it is relying on the copious amounts of RAM to be able to switch through all of those apps so easily but it ends up getting full and it has to close down tasks. Not sure what iOS does differently but it looks like it is killing those apps faster (because it has no choice: not enough RAM to just keep stacking all those apps on each other).

I see the benefit of keeping all of those apps open in RAM: you can pick up where you left off. I notice this on my Note 3 compared to my iPhone.


You're right: Apple optimizes in the right places which is why I think they put out a good mobile phone product.

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
The speed/performance depend on the settings and the way the apps run through the OS.

iOS and Android have very different ways of running apps.
iOS automagically exits the app when you press the home button, but in Android, some apps/processes still run in the background until you close the task completely in the task manager. These running processes consume RAM which affects the overall performance of the device.

It should be noted to the video link you posted above, that the S5 and One M8 both run a larger, higher resolution display with a higher pixel count. Hence there will be slowdowns.

The Touchwiz/SenseUI overlay bogs it down as well (vanilla Android is less cluttered and runs the VM faster).

There's a technique to make Android faster. Just turn off all the animations in Developer Options (no root needed), and it will be just about as fast as iPhone.

I would like to see a current and rooted Android phone that has had the bloatware removed.



But, the video comparison is more real world because the vast majority of users are not going to root their android phone and remove crap.

The test shows that the iPhone is actually better at stacking apps in RAM, even though it has less of it. It has to reload fewer apps than the other two, and that's partly why it picks off much faster. The only thing that had to be reloaded (i.e. was not in RAM) was the tab in the browser (and that was the case for the S5 and the M8 as well)

Originally posted by dadudemon
I would like to see a current and rooted Android phone that has had the bloatware removed.



But, the video comparison is more real world because the vast majority of users are not going to root their android phone and remove crap.

I'd like to see a Moto X (2nd Gen) and the next Nexus when it is announced, compared to an iPhone 6 Plus. That'd be interesting. And yeah, you are right about this being more of a real life test for most people.

Originally posted by Bardock42
The test shows that the iPhone is actually better at stacking apps in RAM, even though it has less of it. It has to reload fewer apps than the other two, and that's partly why it picks off much faster. The only thing that had to be reloaded (i.e. was not in RAM) was the tab in the browser (and that was the case for the S5 and the M8 as well)

That test he does is designed quite well, imo.

He's going through enough apps that it should push the hefty RAM-having phones past their limit. That way, the Android phones don't get an advantage of being able to load up the same app that is still in RAM.



Shrink the number of things being opened down to 1/3 that amount and then the Android phones, due to their RAM, get an unfair advantage such as the browser tab still being open.



On my Note 3, it seems to be able to hold 3-4 apps before it starts "shutting" them down. This includes games, browsers, and image apps.

Bendgate strikes again!!!!



http://fat.gfycat.com/GloomyEnragedAcornbarnacle.gif

Originally posted by dadudemon
Bendgate strikes again!!!!



http://fat.gfycat.com/GloomyEnragedAcornbarnacle.gif


Funniest part was the Nokia 3310 pun.

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon


Funniest part was the Nokia 3310 pun.

lol, it's the only phone not bent. Twas good attention to detail by the gif maker.

This video seems to be more accurate. Instead of a skinny-fat hipster who has probably never done something strenuous in his life, we get a normal guy who describes himself as "skinny." Seems to bend quite easily. I think how flimsy these things are is actually being downplayed by the Apple community. I think it's worse than we thought (at least what I thought). Also, he flips the phone around so that the bending is not focused on the identified "structural weakness" to dispel any people crying foul:

-58g-sMrkys



I'll be skipping this generation of iPhones. Hopefully, next year, they release a more durable product.

It's hard to compare, if he doesn't do it to any other phones.

Either way, it seems pretty clear that it is not a real problem in practice, sure, if you are in the habit of trying to bend your phone on purpose in your hands, you probably won't want it.

I mean, we'll see in the long run, they probably sold like 20 million of them already, but I am pretty convinced it's just not a real problem.

Originally posted by Bardock42
It's hard to compare, if he doesn't do it to any other phones.

I tried it with my Note 3: it didn't come close to budging. Since my Note 3 has had plenty of rides in my pocket, without bending, I'll call it good. The Note 3 is the only phone it took 2 months to get the cover for: no issues. I did order the cover the same day I got the phone but some shit yadda yadda, took a while to get the cover.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Either way, it seems pretty clear that it is not a real problem in practice, sure, if you are in the habit of trying to bend your phone on purpose in your hands, you probably won't want it.

I'm thinking bending in pockets is more of the issue, here.

http://9to5mac.com/2014/09/30/bendgate/

Originally posted by Bardock42
I mean, we'll see in the long run, they probably sold like 20 million of them already, but I am pretty convinced it's just not a real problem.

I mean, since they are literally bending in people's pockets (this is how this got started: users reporting it bent in their pockets and then that dude made that super hi-res video that started bendgate), it's not a readily dismiss-able problem. It is an issue. People need to buy a sturdy cover.

Like I said, doesn't seem to be a problem in practice. I mean 9 people out of 10 million, is negligible. You'll definitely be fine with a case, and almost certainly be fine without one.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Like I said, doesn't seem to be a problem in practice. I mean 9 people out of 10 million, is negligible.

The video in that news article from that Mac blog contends that 9 number thing (that is is clearly a PR lie from Apple...unlikely Apple will open up their case records to the public). Well, probably because far more than 9 people had reported bending in their phones in various comments before bendgate broke with that video.

Originally posted by Bardock42
You'll definitely be fine with a case, and almost certainly be fine without one.

I'll still wait. This phone of mine will definitely last one more year. It still works like a champ. The iPhone 6s + should be an awesome phone. And I bet you Apple is going to make that mother-f*cker a tank.

But, yeah, I was hoping for a good phone from Apple. This one is a skipper.


Did you get the new iPhone 6? I think you did...didn't you?

Well, we'll see, but lets be honest, the iPhone 6 and 6 Pus will, again, sell more phones than any other did before, that's already pretty clear. I assume we'll look back on the silliness of "bendgate" like we do with "antennagate", "mapgate" and "scuffgate"...it's just the new thing that journalists love to tout, because an "Apple is doomed" story sells, but probably won't hurt sales at all, might even help them, free advertising.

I don't think Apple will react much, they made their choice in tradeoffs, and aluminium, thinness and lightness is what they want, that it makes it more bendable is probably a trade off they are willing to make, especially cause it has almost no real life consequences.

I did get the iPhone 6 on launch day. It's awesome. Definitely the best phone on the market right now (2nd is the iPhone 6 Plus and 3rd is the iPhone 5S, Android really didn't catch up to the 5S in the last year )

Originally posted by Bardock42
Well, we'll see, but lets be honest, the iPhone 6 and 6 Pus will, again, sell more phones than any other did before, that's already pretty clear.
This isn't about the iPhone as a market product; it's about the iPhone as an identifier for people who will spend top dollar on garbage to fit in.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I did get the iPhone 6 on launch day. It's awesome. Definitely the best phone on the market right now (2nd is the iPhone 6 Plus and 3rd is the iPhone 5S, Android really didn't catch up to the 5S in the last year )
http://newmobilereview.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Apple-iphone-6-vs.-Samsung-Galaxy-Note-4-3.jpg

I think your assessment of why people choose Apple is simplistic and betrays a lack of understanding of the market.

And yeah, there's some Android phones that have better specs in some aspects, but that doesn't make them better experience wise (btw, that spec sheet has a lot of mistakes on it).

Maybe Apple will address this problem with the release of iPhone 6S/+.

All they need to do is replace the chassis with a better alloy material.
Would be nice if they use a magnesium alloy.

TBH, I wish they'd just use iPod Touch chassis and add phone capability.

Oh man, so true, I would love a phone in the 4th Gen iPod Touch casing!

The iPod Touch 5th Gen, afaik, is made from the same aluminium as the new iPhones (and the Macs), it is also prone to the same bending btw (but, again, that also didn't and doesn't matter in real world usage).

The iPhone 6 and 6 Plus is very similar to the 5th Gen iPod.

I was actually thinking 5th Gen iPod Touch, but with magnesium alloy chassis (like the one they use on their MacBook Air).

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
I was actually thinking 5th Gen iPod Touch, but with magnesium alloy chassis (like the one they use on their MacBook Air).

I think you are mistaking that, the MacBook Airs are made from aluminium. The Microsoft Surface is made from magnesium.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I think your assessment of why people choose Apple is simplistic and betrays a lack of understanding of the market.

And yeah, there's some Android phones that have better specs in some aspects, but that doesn't make them better experience wise (btw, that spec sheet has a lot of mistakes on it).

My wife loves the shit out of the iPhone. She loves the UI and the features. They just click with her, for some reason. It has nothing to do with "appearances." She can buy any phone she wants (except for those million dollar jewel encrusted phones). She prefers the iPhone. She's completely oblivious to "fashion" trends related to phones. She doesn't even know if it is popular or not. She still likes the iPhone. I think my wife is a very common consumer of iPhones. Apples makes a good product with an intuitive interface with great features. The phone is perfect for her.


I am getting her the 6+ around December 25th.

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
Maybe Apple will address this problem with the release of iPhone 6S/+.

Yup. That's what I'm going to do. Based on what Apple has done in the past, they will probably make a very sturdy phone for the 6S and the 6S+.

Interesting discussion you guys were leading, read it all . I agree that the problem with the bent housing is made to be a big deal which, in reality, it won't be for most users.
Marius, I remember you to be sceptical towards the Apple device family. We had a discussion on the MacBook Pro once. Now I'm on Android and you're a hardcore iPhone fan. Whatever happened?

Originally posted by Bardock42
More on the Apple Watch: http://www.ablogtowatch.com/apple-watch-hands-on-review/

Really interesting piece. And the guy who wrote it was also on a podcast (which is also very interesting)

http://www.resolvepodcast.com/episodes/2014/9/30/apple-watch-the-21st-century-wristwatch

I'm getting really excited about the Apple Watch.

I'll have to disagree here, though. Apple didn't live up to the expectations at all. I think the mediocre market response to the last Keynote largely arose from the disappointment with the Apple Watch.
Apple has a reputation of taking an existing device class, filling it with new ideas and making it attractive to the mass market. The Apple Watch didn't quite nail it, though. It's still a device without a clear purpose as it doesn't really do anything your phone doesn't already do. It's also pretty useless without a phone you're carrying around. So that's really "meh".

What really kills it for me is the design though. In my opinion, it looks clunky, bulky. It's not really any better looking than the Samsung watches of gen. 2 or 3. It may use more high-class materials but that's about it. The design really lacks a key feature of a smartwatch. It's supposed to be a fashion article. It's a watch, you'll always carry it visibly.
And matching it against the new generation Android smartwatch counterparts, it looks rather dull, really. The LG G Watch R, despite its terrible name, is much sexier and looks like something you'd much rather wear to a suit.

imho, Apple should have waited a little longer and created a device that has its own, unique features, and maybe a round display would've helped as well. It's what I had expected from them, not this mediocre tech toy.

Originally posted by eezy45
Interesting discussion you guys were leading, read it all . I agree that the problem with the bent housing is made to be a big deal which, in reality, it won't be for most users.
Marius, I remember you to be sceptical towards the Apple device family. We had a discussion on the MacBook Pro once. Now I'm on Android and you're a hardcore iPhone fan. Whatever happened?

Yeah, I used to be very skeptical of Apple. In particular I thought their iPods just weren't worth it, compared to offerings by Creative or Cowon. For me it changed when I got the 4th Gen iPod Touch, I still think that is the best value consumer gadget ever made, probably by a large margin. To be fair, from the iPhone 4 onwards Apple added a lot of things that made the trade offs much more appealing to me as well.

With the Macs though, even more so than with the other devices, my dislike really stemmed from ignorance regarding it, and believing the "overpriced" tropes without questioning them.



Originally posted by eezy45
I'll have to disagree here, though. Apple didn't live up to the expectations at all. I think the mediocre market response to the last Keynote largely arose from the disappointment with the Apple Watch.
Apple has a reputation of taking an existing device class, filling it with new ideas and making it attractive to the mass market. The Apple Watch didn't quite nail it, though. It's still a device without a clear purpose as it doesn't really do anything your phone doesn't already do. It's also pretty useless without a phone you're carrying around. So that's really "meh".

What really kills it for me is the design though. In my opinion, it looks clunky, bulky. It's not really any better looking than the Samsung watches of gen. 2 or 3. It may use more high-class materials but that's about it. The design really lacks a key feature of a smartwatch. It's supposed to be a fashion article. It's a watch, you'll always carry it visibly.
And matching it against the new generation Android smartwatch counterparts, it looks rather dull, really. The LG G Watch R, despite its terrible name, is much sexier and looks like something you'd much rather wear to a suit.

imho, Apple should have waited a little longer and created a device that has its own, unique features, and maybe a round display would've helped as well. It's what I had expected from them, not this mediocre tech toy.

I can see what you mean, the presentation was very unfocussed, and they didn't yet clearly answer the why ("Why do we even need smartwatches", though, to be fair, it's earlier than usual. They might reveal a more clear vision when it comes out in a couple months. On the other hand, it really does a lot, considerably more than any other smartwatch offering (and according to Apple they haven't even shown everything yet). It seems to me like this is an actual attempt to make something that could replace the phone as the center of computing (as it has become for many people) in a couple generations.

Hmm, well, tastes are definitely different. I find it actually a very beautiful design, far above any of the competition. Comparing it to the Moto G for example, the Android watch looks like a toy to me. It is hefty, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing, I think.

http://recode.net/2014/10/06/samsung-warns-of-lower-third-quarter-earnings/

Samsung is not doing too well

At the top end Apple is taking their market, and from the bottom they are being overtaken by Chinese makers. They'll need to figure something out or they'll go the way of the Nokia/Blackberry/Motorola (that's not really realistic, they are doing fine in many ways, but they are losing a lot in the smartphone market, both profit and marketshare wise)

Yep, I believe that assessment is accurate.

They'll continue to lose profits as they saturate the market with multiple variants of the same model.

Sony, LG, and Motorola are poised to take control of the high-end market whilst Oppo, Xiaomi, and Huawei will take control of the low/mid-end market.

They need to release their Tizen OS and hope that it will bring new innovations/features not yet present in iOS or Android OS.
This is their only chance to survive in the mobile phone industry.

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
They need to release their Tizen OS and hope that it will bring new innovations/features not yet present in iOS or Android OS.
This is their only chance to survive in the mobile phone industry.
I disagree. I think it's far too late to bring in another mobile platform to compete. Tizen will remain irrelevant much like Firefox and Ubuntu Mobile. I think the OS battle for market shares is settled, and will tilt in Android's favour if anything; I like to draw the analogy of the home computer market in the 1980s. While the IBM PC at first looked like a joke compared to the competition of its time, the licence free development model quickly made it the most popular machine there was, setting an industry standard. Android has had the same sort of power in that it enabled a wide range of manufacturers to deliver a high quality user interface with the most extensive software supply there is.

At least I know I wouldn't get the next Samsung flagship if it were running Tizen.

Edit: an interesting detail of this analogy is that both times, Apple created the first really great, kind of exclusive product and changed the way we look at the device class, only to be dethroned little after. I wonder if the iPhone will ever hit 5% market share.

I agree that Tizen probably won't take off, even if Samsung threw its whole weight behind it. I don't think many people really cares about Samsung, they are just as likely to buy an HTC or a Motorola again, if the marketing around it changed (Samsung far, far outspends Apple on marketing, which is funny considering so many people think Apple's success is solely due to people buying their marketing)


Also I don't agree with what you said about Apple. Apple never had the majority of the smartphone market. Who do you think dethroned Apple exactly?

Apple has about 11% of the smartphone market worldwide (and probably something like 80% of the high end, 500$+ market)

Apple also has 42% of the US smartphone market.

I think they are very happy in the categories that they play in (and take almost all the profits in the whole market). It's an interesting data point to compare all smartphones, from the 25$ to the 1000$ phone, but market share doesn't show that anyone's "winning" really.

I think it's fair to say that before Apple presented its idea of just what the smartphone should be, it was mostly a device class for special purposes. Sure, there was BlackBerry and there were a few UMTS phones around, but none really showed consumers what an internet powered handset could do. The iPhone really was the first consequently smart phone, it was the first phone with an operating system designed entirely around a touch screen that you'd use with your fingers. A pretty inspiring concept.
The same can be said about home computers and the Macintosh. Sure, some geeks had an Altair 8800 at home in the late 70s, but what who really considered it'd be a concept for everybody's home before the Macintosh showed people what the computer could be about?

So yeah, of course iPhone never was a market leader. And percentages will never be able to express what it did to the smartphone market. But Android really only found its place after Apple showed what these devices could do, and after Samsung and others started copying key features of the iPhone, and that is what I meant by dethroning. I think how we think of smartphones today was born with the original iPhone, which I owned and loved.

Originally posted by eezy45
I think it's fair to say that before Apple presented its idea of just what the smartphone should be, it was mostly a device class for special purposes. Sure, there was BlackBerry and there were a few UMTS phones around, but none really showed consumers what an internet powered handset could do. The iPhone really was the first consequently smart phone, it was the first phone with an operating system designed entirely around a touch screen that you'd use with your fingers. A pretty inspiring concept.
The same can be said about home computers and the Macintosh. Sure, some geeks had an Altair 8800 at home in the late 70s, but what who really considered it'd be a concept for everybody's home before the Macintosh showed people what the computer could be about?

So yeah, of course iPhone never was a market leader. And percentages will never be able to express what it did to the smartphone market. But Android really only found its place after Apple showed what these devices could do, and after Samsung and others started copying key features of the iPhone, and that is what I meant by dethroning. I think how we think of smartphones today was born with the original iPhone, which I owned and loved.

Hmm, I definitely agree with Apple reinventing and defining these categories, I just don't agree with the word "dethroning". Looking at it right now, Apple makes about 80% of the smartphone profits in the world and about 50% of the PC Hardware profits. They are the king in the categories they play, everyone else (except for Samsung for a while) is struggling and fighting for the scraps.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Hmm, I definitely agree with Apple reinventing and defining these categories, I just don't agree with the word "dethroning". Looking at it right now, Apple makes about 80% of the smartphone profits in the world and about 50% of the PC Hardware profits. They are the king in the categories they play, everyone else (except for Samsung for a while) is struggling and fighting for the scraps.

To me, the most obvious troll on a forum is the "citation needed" troll. This is the type of troll that asks for a citation for information that is easily found with a google search.

I'm not one of those trolls. If a person makes a claim that is readily verifiable, I won't be a troll and ask, "Please provide a citation."


Anyway, I wanted to point out that you were right and I found a "citation" for your "nearly 50%" comment:

http://fortune.com/2013/04/16/pie-chart-of-the-day-apples-oversize-share-of-pc-profits/

If you pointed this (the source) out, previously, ignore this post. I just wanted to make it known that you do not have to feed the "citation needed" trolls and I find those types not worth discussing topics with.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Hmm, I definitely agree with Apple reinventing and defining these categories, I just don't agree with the word "dethroning". Looking at it right now, Apple makes about 80% of the smartphone profits in the world and about 50% of the PC Hardware profits. They are the king in the categories they play, everyone else (except for Samsung for a while) is struggling and fighting for the scraps.

I guess it really depends on how you measure success. I think it's only logical that a company that creates dozens of variations of a device to please everybody's needs and meet everybody's taste will have smaller profit margins than one only serving the high-end market with two or three models. However, if half the world is using an Lenovo computer and a Samsung phone, it does imply a fair amount of success. Android Apps and Windows programs will obviously reach a much greater user base thanks to that.

It is a different measure of success, yes. But it is unfair, to measure Apple on an unrelated axis, when they have consciously chosen to play in a different market. The people touting market share as "Android" winning, are comparing different games. Coincidentally, there is still more money made on apps in the iOS App Store than on the Google Play Store. Even though Android is on more than 6 times more devices.


Other topic though: Financial Potential of the Apple Watch.

I've been thinking about what the potential impact of the Apple Watch may be for Apple's bottom line. There are mainly three variables we have to determine to find that out that's units, average selling price, and margins.

For the units I have no real idea whatsoever. I'll just assume it will be anywhere between 1 million and 10 million devices a quarter. For some reference, the smartwatch market in 2013 was something like 2 million devices, most of which were the Samsung Galaxy Gear, which were often bundled or given away with a purchase of a Note for example, the technology wearables market altogether (fitbit, fuelband, pebble, android wear, etc.) is apparently going to be something like 15 million devices in 2014. I do think Apple will outsell the Galaxy Gear though definitely, so like I said, I'm going to put my low ball estimate at 4 million devices per year, and my insanely optimistic estimate at 40 million per year (this is for the first year, comparing to it the iPad sold 15 million devices in the first 9 months or 5 million per quarter on average). So lets take 4 million, 20 million as 40 million as variables.


For Average Selling Price, Apple said that it will start at 350$, which I assume will be for the Sports Edition with a plastic band. The steel one I assume will be somewhere between 500$ and 1000$. And the Gold one probably somewhere between 2000$ and 10000$. Of course depending on the price they'll sell more or less, but for the sake of why the hell not lets just assume ASPs of 400$ or 600$.


For margins you could look at the material costs, maybe factor in some secondary costs, R&D, logistics whatever, but I don't really want to do that, so I'll just set them to the 40% (around what Apple does on average) and 60% (higher, because luxury items often have insane margins)

So now some calculations for a quarter

Units - ASP - Margin - Revenue - Profits

1m - 400 - 40 - 400m - 160m
1m - 400 - 60 - 400m - 240m
1m - 600 - 40 - 600m - 240m
1m - 600 - 60 - 600m - 360m
5m - 400 - 40 - 1600m - 640m
5m - 400 - 60 - 1600m - 960m
5m - 600 - 40 - 2400m - 960m
5m - 600 - 60 - 2400m - 1440m
10m - 400 - 40 - 4000m - 1600m
10m - 400 - 60 - 4000m - 2400m
10m - 600 - 40 - 6000m - 2400m
10m - 600 - 60 - 6000m - 3600m

So yeah, what I'm trying to say is, I have basically no idea how much of an impact it may have, but prolly somewhere between 160$ million and 3,6$ billion

What do you guys think, how much of an impact will the Apple Watch have on Apple's bottom line

Your fanatic dedication to promote a Fortune 500 company in times of journalistic criticism is unbecoming of you. Get the iPhone out of your ass and do something with your life.

Originally posted by Bardock42
It is a different measure of success, yes. But it is unfair, to measure Apple on an unrelated axis, when they have consciously chosen to play in a different market. The people touting market share as "Android" winning, are comparing different games. Coincidentally, there is still more money made on apps in the iOS App Store than on the Google Play Store. Even though Android is on more than 6 times more devices.


Other topic though: Financial Potential of the Apple Watch.

I've been thinking about what the potential impact of the Apple Watch may be for Apple's bottom line. There are mainly three variables we have to determine to find that out that's units, average selling price, and margins.

For the units I have no real idea whatsoever. I'll just assume it will be anywhere between 1 million and 10 million devices a quarter. For some reference, the smartwatch market in 2013 was something like 2 million devices, most of which were the Samsung Galaxy Gear, which were often bundled or given away with a purchase of a Note for example, the technology wearables market altogether (fitbit, fuelband, pebble, android wear, etc.) is apparently going to be something like 15 million devices in 2014. I do think Apple will outsell the Galaxy Gear though definitely, so like I said, I'm going to put my low ball estimate at 4 million devices per year, and my insanely optimistic estimate at 40 million per year (this is for the first year, comparing to it the iPad sold 15 million devices in the first 9 months or 5 million per quarter on average). So lets take 4 million, 20 million as 40 million as variables.


For Average Selling Price, Apple said that it will start at 350$, which I assume will be for the Sports Edition with a plastic band. The steel one I assume will be somewhere between 500$ and 1000$. And the Gold one probably somewhere between 2000$ and 10000$. Of course depending on the price they'll sell more or less, but for the sake of why the hell not lets just assume ASPs of 400$ or 600$.


For margins you could look at the material costs, maybe factor in some secondary costs, R&D, logistics whatever, but I don't really want to do that, so I'll just set them to the 40% (around what Apple does on average) and 60% (higher, because luxury items often have insane margins)

So now some calculations for a quarter

Units - ASP - Margin - Revenue - Profits

1m - 400 - 40 - 400m - 160m
1m - 400 - 60 - 400m - 240m
1m - 600 - 40 - 600m - 240m
1m - 600 - 60 - 600m - 360m
5m - 400 - 40 - 1600m - 640m
5m - 400 - 60 - 1600m - 960m
5m - 600 - 40 - 2400m - 960m
5m - 600 - 60 - 2400m - 1440m
10m - 400 - 40 - 4000m - 1600m
10m - 400 - 60 - 4000m - 2400m
10m - 600 - 40 - 6000m - 2400m
10m - 600 - 60 - 6000m - 3600m

So yeah, what I'm trying to say is, I have basically no idea how much of an impact it may have, but prolly somewhere between 160$ million and 3,6$ billion

What do you guys think, how much of an impact will the Apple Watch have on Apple's bottom line

I think you will see up to 500k units on the watch sold perhaps in 2 to 4 quarters. Maybe less. It should not take off. It is not considered all that great and press is marginal to negative on even pro-Apple sites.

I believe polls have been done, albeit unscientific. But it seems the overwhelming majority of techies see no need for the watch.

Only people like you, fans of Apple with plenty of disposable income, will purchase it. It is more like a novelty item.

Originally posted by Astner
Your fanatic dedication to promote a Fortune 500 company in times of journalistic criticism is unbecoming of you. Get the iPhone out of your ass and do something with your life.

I think Bardock is not as bad as you say but this is a slightly accurate description of him. 313

I'd say I'm a much bigger fanboy of Lotus cars than he is of Apple. At least he can be objective about these topics, usually.

Originally posted by Astner
Your fanatic dedication to promote a Fortune 500 company in times of journalistic criticism is unbecoming of you. Get the iPhone out of your ass and do something with your life.

Your phrasing "times of journalistic criticism" makes it seem as if there is something new about the media reaction towards Apple. This is not the case. Apple has faced excessive media criticism for the longest time. Some of the criticism has been valid (few and far between, imo) most of it is hyperbolic, based on faulty assumptions or just lack of journalistic integrity. Saying negative things about Apple has almost become an industry by itself. People like Rob Enderle, Jay Yarow, Dan Lyons, Henry Blodget basically make a living out of unfounded, doom-saying articles about Apple.

I'm not uncritical about Apple myself, there are many things that are bothersome with Apple, their cloud offerings are far below par, the file systems they use on Macs is outdated, they do need better Q&A for their software and selling 8GB and even 16GB phones today creates a horrible user experience, and they should not do it, however the echo-chamber of Anti-Apple rhetoric does not discuss the accurate and important criticisms, rather they jump on silly "-gate" stories, that always turn out to not be an actual problem in the end, they compare incomparable specs to show how Apple's devices are allegedly worse disregarding any other factors, they paint Apple users (of which there are something like 400 million) as blind, cultist, sheep that buy Apple only for their marketing, which is a preposterous accusation, considering that Samsung far, far outspends Apple on marketing.

So yeah, I am a fan of Apple as a business and its products and I do like to talk about consumer technology. I don't think there's anything wrong with that however. Originally posted by dadudemon
I think you will see up to 500k units on the watch sold perhaps in 2 to 4 quarters. Maybe less. It should not take off. It is not considered all that great and press is marginal to negative on even pro-Apple sites.

I believe polls have been done, albeit unscientific. But it seems the overwhelming majority of techies see no need for the watch.

Only people like you, fans of Apple with plenty of disposable income, will purchase it. It is more like a novelty item.

Well, it is a possibility. However I find the estimate, that Apple's watch would sell less than Samsung's offering somewhat unlikely. Smartwatches are a niche product currently, hence why any estimates are so hard. I would consider 500k after a year definitely a pretty big failure on Apple's part though. But lets add your low estimate, 125k per quarter, ASP of 350, margin of 40%

0.125m - 350 - 40 - 43.75m - 17.5m

And you are right the reaction has been tepid, however, that was also the case for the iPad, and that sold well.

http://www.businessoffashion.com/2014/10/first-look-apple-watch-makes-fashion-editorial-debut-cover-vogue-china.html

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa158/Bardock42/Cover-Nov-2014-for-meng-700x902_zps3e68bb67.jpg

It's fascinating to see how different the approach to market for the Apple Watch is compared to the iPhone, iPad, etc.

To me, China, is a market I can't judge at all, it seems like the fashion there may be very, very positive toward an Apple Watch, perhaps even the high end luxury ones.

I find the Apple Watch ugly, no matter how hyped it may be.

The design is just plain unattractive, no matter what angle I look at it.

Would've been better if they made it slimmer and sharpened corners instead of rounded corners.
Something like a large JLC Reverso.

http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb321/honeybear75/JLC_Grande_Reverso_Duo/DSC00359.jpg

Originally posted by Bardock42
Well, it is a possibility. However I find the estimate, that Apple's watch would sell less than Samsung's offering somewhat unlikely. Smartwatches are a niche product currently, hence why any estimates are so hard. I would consider 500k after a year definitely a pretty big failure on Apple's part though. But lets add your low estimate, 125k per quarter, ASP of 350, margin of 40%

0.125m - 350 - 40 - 43.75m - 17.5m

And you are right the reaction has been tepid, however, that was also the case for the iPad, and that sold well.

This was a level-headed response. Astner, suck-it. 313


To address what you're saying, I do not think the iPad and the Apple Watch are comparable. Anticipation and hype for the iPad was much much greater than the Watch. In fact, I don't remember any places except anti-Apple f*cktards being against the iPad. It seemed nearly universally positively anticipated.

By the way, the Otterbox cases came in for everyone at the office. The "bendgate" shenanigans have ceased at our office. Out of the 13 that got the new iPhones, 4 of them ended up with bent phones. Out of those four, 3 got their phones replaced and the 4th just simply straightened his phone and put the Otterbox case on.

It should be noted that all four of those people put their phones in their back pockets and the other 9 put them in belt carrying cases...which looks dumb (but, hey, they avoided bent phones). 4 out of 4 bent phones, when carried in the pockets, seems very telling of how that "only 9" number from Apple smells like very stinky bullshit.

Is bendgate being blown out of proportion? Nope. Not even slightly. It seems ridiculously underblown. Apple should be beaten savagely (metaphorically) for such an atrocious oversight. People are being too lenient on Apple. At first, I thought the bendgate thing was overblown on some places and underblown on others. Now I just think it is nearly universally underblown and this should have been a much bigger deal. Apple-tards, who buy Apple products regardless of the review, are the problem. There is NO way Apple was not aware their phone was a piece of shit. Their testing is probably among the best in the world for consumer electronics. Some senior project manager (or managers) accepted the risk. Their risk assessment showed that their market is full of sheep that will always buy their products: that's true. So why would they be worried?


Maybe the reason this pisses me off so much is that I wanted this phone so badly. It was the solution to all of my problems with Apple. Apple fixed nearly every other complaint I had about them. The last major complain I had left was about their small phones. I watch Netfilx nearly EVERYDAY on my phone (and have for years) because I workout or have long commutes. A tiny ass-phone (ass-phone -> bendgate -> lol) is just not going to cut it.


But...if the iPhone 6S+ is sturdier, you can bet your sweetass that I'll skip the Galaxy Note 5 and buy the iPhone (Unless the Note 5 bring something to the table, new, that I like more).

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
I find the Apple Watch ugly, no matter how hyped it may be.

The design is just plain unattractive, no matter what angle I look at it.

Would've been better if they made it slimmer and sharpened corners instead of rounded corners.
Something like a large JLC Reverso.

http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb321/honeybear75/JLC_Grande_Reverso_Duo/DSC00359.jpg

That's fair enough, tastes will definitely differ. I personally find it very nice looking. I'm sure in time they will extend their offerings to more and more different collections. I am excited about the potential.

Originally posted by dadudemon
This was a level-headed response. Astner, suck-it. 313


To address what you're saying, I do not think the iPad and the Apple Watch are comparable. Anticipation and hype for the iPad was much much greater than the Watch. In fact, I don't remember any places except anti-Apple f*cktards being against the iPad. It seemed nearly universally positively anticipated.

By the way, the Otterbox cases came in for everyone at the office. The "bendgate" shenanigans have ceased at our office. Out of the 13 that got the new iPhones, 4 of them ended up with bent phones. Out of those four, 3 got their phones replaced and the 4th just simply straightened his phone and put the Otterbox case on.

It should be noted that all four of those people put their phones in their back pockets and the other 9 put them in belt carrying cases...which looks dumb (but, hey, they avoided bent phones). 4 out of 4 bent phones, when carried in the pockets, seems very telling of how that "only 9" number from Apple smells like very stinky bullshit.

Is bendgate being blown out of proportion? Nope. Not even slightly. It seems ridiculously underblown. Apple should be beaten savagely (metaphorically) for such an atrocious oversight. People are being too lenient on Apple. At first, I thought the bendgate thing was overblown on some places and underblown on others. Now I just think it is nearly universally underblown and this should have been a much bigger deal. Apple-tards, who buy Apple products regardless of the review, are the problem. There is NO way Apple was not aware their phone was a piece of shit. Their testing is probably among the best in the world for consumer electronics. Some senior project manager (or managers) accepted the risk. Their risk assessment showed that their market is full of sheep that will always buy their products: that's true. So why would they be worried?


Maybe the reason this pisses me off so much is that I wanted this phone so badly. It was the solution to all of my problems with Apple. Apple fixed nearly every other complaint I had about them. The last major complain I had left was about their small phones. I watch Netfilx nearly EVERYDAY on my phone (and have for years) because I workout or have long commutes. A tiny ass-phone (ass-phone -> bendgate -> lol) is just not going to cut it.


But...if the iPhone 6S+ is sturdier, you can bet your sweetass that I'll skip the Galaxy Note 5 and buy the iPhone (Unless the Note 5 bring something to the table, new, that I like more).

You are right, it was somewhat different with the iPad. In particular the price of $499 was mind boggling at the time. Still I feel positive about the potential of the Apple Watch. I'm very excited for the next year.

And hopefully the next version of the iPhone will be to your taste, I think you'd ultimately enjoy an iPhone the most. I don't agree with your line about Apple consumers being sheep, since I think, even looking at the potential of bending, there is still a perfectly reasonable case to be made for buying the iPhone 6 Plus, but I don't think it's worthwhile to argue about that.


Oh, I am also really excited about next weeks Apple event, at the moment I know almost nothing about what will be revealed, which always makes it most interesting. I assume new iPads, in whatever form, and maybe new Macs (Intel has kinda dropped the ball on the chips of course, but maybe a Retina iMac? Fingers crossed), possibly something about Apple TV. Should be a good event.

Perhaps a bit premature, obviously Samsung's fall has been significant, but lets give them some time. Still I can't help but find this piece amusing http://techpinions.com/samsung-schadenfreude-and-the-fall-of-the-church-of-market-share/35451

Originally posted by Bardock42
You are right, it was somewhat different with the iPad. In particular the price of $499 was mind boggling at the time. Still I feel positive about the potential of the Apple Watch. I'm very excited for the next year.

I hope you like it!

Originally posted by Bardock42
And hopefully the next version of the iPhone will be to your taste, I think you'd ultimately enjoy an iPhone the most. I don't agree with your line about Apple consumers being sheep, since I think, even looking at the potential of bending, there is still a perfectly reasonable case to be made for buying the iPhone 6 Plus, but I don't think it's worthwhile to argue about that.

Couple of things:

1. I think a large enough portion of their consumer base is in it for the "swag" that they can count of them to always buy their product. It acts as a hedge against their mistake? What is the word I am looking for? They made a mistake but they knew they were making it so it was not a mistake but actually something that they knew and accepted. Calculated risk? Seems too wordy...surely there is a word that means "moving forward with a known and accepted weakness in a product or idea"? It is not a defect.

2. You said case n'stuff. lol...


Originally posted by Bardock42
Oh, I am also really excited about next weeks Apple event, at the moment I know almost nothing about what will be revealed, which always makes it most interesting. I assume new iPads, in whatever form, and maybe new Macs (Intel has kinda dropped the ball on the chips of course, but maybe a Retina iMac? Fingers crossed), possibly something about Apple TV. Should be a good event.

Any news?

Well, that sucks.

I'm amongst those who prefer to keep physical backups (USB sticks, microSDs, external SSDs) as my main form of storage solution.

Still iffy with all these cloud storage options, especially with the privacy and security risks they come with.


What do you guys think about the Sony SmartWatch 3?

http://cdn.gsmarena.com/vv/newsimg/14/10/sony-watch-play/gsmarena_001.jpg

IMHO, it has the most practical design among the current available smartwatches. The plastic or resin case is more suitable for people with active lifestyles.
Not to mention, the design is quite attractive.

I updated my sister's iPod Touch 5th Gen to iOS 8.0.2 recently, and now I'm tinkering with it.

The lag is unbearable. So much worse than my Galaxy S5 on Kitkat 4.4.4.

Yeah, I wish Apple wouldn't allow iOS 8 on A5 chips. It's a terrible move, and makes the devices much less usable. I mean, the A5 chips came out in early 2011.....

Same thing with most low-end Android phones running KitKat.

I don't understand why some Android OEMs keep pushing updates to devices that barely meet the minimum requirements to run the OS.
I think they're trying to force users to upgrade their phones to their more expensive offerings.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Yeah, I wish Apple wouldn't allow iOS 8 on A5 chips. It's a terrible move, and makes the devices much less usable. I mean, the A5 chips came out in early 2011.....

Were you and I talking about iOS being an OS that is....part of Apple's marketing scheme?


Let me give you an example:

Windows 7: has more features and pragmatism than Windows Vista. Runs even better on hardware that can run Vista (faster, etc.). Updates improve performance and add features of the OS. The hardware intense graphical features can be disabled for older hardware OR just simply to improve performance on new hardware.

iOS 8: has more features and fixes than previous version of iOS. Runs slower on older hardware. Updates sometimes slow down performance even on newer hardware. Some updates improve performance in certain areas.





Seems pretty obvious that Apple is pushing you into buying their new phones since that is their profit model: margins.


Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
Same thing with most low-end Android phones running KitKat.

I don't understand why some Android OEMs keep pushing updates to devices that barely meet the minimum requirements to run the OS.
I think they're trying to force users to upgrade their phones to their more expensive offerings.

Really depends on the phone. It seems Android phones are hit or miss with updates on performance. The problem is not as obvious on some Android phones as it is iPhones. Both suffer from manufacturers trying to force you into buying newer phones.

I have heard the theory before. I just don't think that's the real reason. Really they are caught between a rock and a hard place. Either they are "obsoleting" the phone by putting an OS on that makes it slow or they are "obsoleting" the phone by not updating it anymore. There's no way to win, at least not as long as the OSs haven't matured to the degree that Windows and OS X have, where updates can actually be better performance-wise even for older hardware.

Wow .. Nice One there ........ Wish It Mine .....................

Originally posted by Bardock42
Either they are "obsoleting" the phone by putting an OS on that makes it slow or they are "obsoleting" the phone by not updating it anymore.

The Windows 7 OS is used to prove that what you state here is a false-dichotomy. In an OS update, you can have both new features and performance increases. Apple has even done this before with iOS...

They usually don't, though. Telling of their business model, I think. 313

The best argument I have read against my position is the immaturity of phone software-hardware "synthesis." My counter-argument to that it is almost factually incorrect that software-hardware "synthesis" is still immature on mobile phones. Here is why: probably the biggest name in market trends in technology, Gartner Gropu, says that smart phones have long since reached the end of the "technological hype-cycle." This means that they have long since matured the "synthesis".

Originally posted by Bardock42
There's no way to win, at least not as long as the OSs haven't matured to the degree that Windows and OS X have, where updates can actually be better performance-wise even for older hardware.

I'll be honest: I did not read this far down into your post when I typed everything above. Yeah, you're making the same argument as others: smarthphone software-hardware synthesis has not reached the same level of maturity as PCs. I don't buy it. When you have smartphones that are more powerful than what many PCs were, 5 years ago, AND those 5 year old PCs run Windows 7 much faster than they did Vista, the argument is invalid. Here's why: OS programming is very similar to PC OS programming. They still have dedicated GPUs and CPUs. Still RAM allocation. Still display stuff. etc. etc. etc. They are not apples (ha!) and oranges.

Here's the bottom line: Apple is updating iOS in a way that it forces obsolescence in smartphones so that it forces consumers to have to update their hardware. I think this is unaffectionately called "planned obsolescence."


This was actually something that Apple was doing before they even had their iPhone: this was a "well-known" issue among techies that supported Macs.



There is a list of common tactics used by organizations that is part of a "planned obsolescence strategy." I'll see if i can find that list in one of my old college textbooks...but, iirc, Apple uses almost all of those tactics in the list.

Like I said, I am aware of the "planned obsolesce" argument, it has recently been very well discussed in the Apple minded blogosphere, I just don't buy that it is actually what's happening.

Samsung just recently revealed the Galaxy S5 Plus.

It's the same phone with the newer SD 805 chipset.

I've been going back and forth on buying an iPad Air 2 and/or a Mac Mini

Oh also, while I'm not considering getting it, I think the new Retina iMac is probably the most interesting new product in the PC space. Even more so than the Mac Pro, which was already amazing. I think Apple will continue to pick up more and more share of the PC market over the next couple years.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Oh also, while I'm not considering getting it, I think the new Retina iMac is probably the most interesting new product in the PC space. Even more so than the Mac Pro, which was already amazing. I think Apple will continue to pick up more and more share of the PC market over the next couple years.


I've hacked and tapped all your phones and electronics, you are mine...boy!

Why would you do that?

Originally posted by Bardock42
Why would you do that?

Something came over me and since Robtard failed to get the rail gun weapon fired on your location; I figured I better keep you in my back pocket.

Okay, good. But for the time being I can just carry on as normal, yes, master?

Originally posted by Bardock42
Okay, good. But for the time being I can just carry on as normal, yes, master?

Yes carry on.

Post teh nudes of Marius.

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
Post teh nudes of Marius.

Giant German Dudes are not my cup of tea.

Eagerly anticipating the announcement of the international version of Motorola Droid Turbo, rumored to be named as Motorola Maxx.

That ballistic nylon back looks sweet. But I'd much prefer the Metallic Red version with metallized glass fiber back.

I've been extremely impressed with most thing that Motorola has done lately. By far my favourite Android OEM (well, for now they're still Google so that's not completely accurate, I guess)

Originally posted by Bardock42
I've been extremely impressed with most thing that Motorola has done lately. By far my favourite Android OEM (well, for now they're still Google so that's not completely accurate, I guess)

I've tapped all your electronics, I strongly advise you not to use them anymore.

RIP Nokia mobile division.

http://www.gsmarena.com/ microsoft_lumia_535_goes_official_with_5_qhd_displ
ay-news-10181.php
http://www.gsmarena.com/ nokia_is_done_with_mobile_but_has_new_product_comi
ng_up-news-10228.php


All Lumia smartphones will be associated with the Microsoft brand.