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DCNU JLA

1.Superman
2.Captain Marvel
3.Green Lantern
4.Wonder Woman
5.Martian Manhunter
6.Orion

The Annihilators

1.Gladiator
2.Silver Surfer
3.Quasar
4.Beta Ray Bill
5.Ronan The Accuser
6.Nova

DECIDE!

Silver Surfer solos for sure...
Few other Annihilators might be able to solo as well...

Edit: Okay, I'll be generous to prevent a DC fanboy tantrum! Silver Surfer, Quasar, Gladiator and Beta Ray Bill are more than enough to absolutely murder-stomp the opponents.

Everyone except Quasar (not sure about him) has destroyed a planet or few, while not holding back and has engaged in fights against characters far more powerful and established than anyone on DCNU JLA.

1.Superman vs Silver Surfer, Superman 5-6/10
2.Captain Marvel vs Gladiator, 5/10
3.Green Lantern vs Quasar, Hal 6/10
4.Wonder Woman vs Beta Ray Bill, WW 6-7/10
5.Martian Manhunter vs Nova, MM 8-9/10
6.Orion vs Ronan, Orion 7-8/10


Obviously the two most powerful would go at each other and given the treatment Superman gave DD, well I see him winning more often than not. If it is current Superman who is Superdoom, he might even solo.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
1.Superman vs Silver Surfer, Superman 5-6/10
2.Captain Marvel vs Gladiator, 5/10
3.Green Lantern vs Quasar, Hal 6/10
4.Wonder Woman vs Beta Ray Bill, WW 6-7/10
5.Martian Manhunter vs Nova, MM 8-9/10
6.Orion vs Ronan, Orion 7-8/10


Obviously the two most powerful would go at each other and given the treatment Superman gave DD, well I see him winning more often than not. If it is current Superman who is Superdoom, he might even solo.
Nova > MM

silver surfer > superman

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
2.Captain Marvel vs Gladiator, 5/10

Explain something to me please and let's take Superman instead of Gladiator as an example:

What in your opinion could Superman do to Gladiator, who has vastly superior feats? (And you even have the inferior Captain Marvel stalemating Gladiator)
Let's compare their feats for example...

We have Gladiator, who destroyed a planet simply by punching it:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/2/29361/624540-solarsystem051ws.jpg

Gladiator flew through a star, so I doubt that New DCNU Supermans Heat Vision will bother him that much:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/2/29361/624542-solarsystem051ws.jpg

Hell, he has even absorbed the energy of an explosion that could have wiped out half of the solar system:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/73849/2821907-gladiator_star_strike.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/73849/2821911-gladiator_star_strike_contained_100_x_ftl.jpg

Now imagine Gladiator standing in front of Superman and they're trading punches... Gladiator has feats, where he destroyed a planet and Superman can topple mountains with his strikes, which has been confirmed by the narration and Superman himself over and over again.

Gladiator has faced much, much more established people, who also had comically insane striking feats and Gladiator fought through their damage. He has nano-second reaction speed, so Superman isn't even going to out-speed him.

Not even magic is that big of a factor against Gladiator, because it affects him just the way it affects Superman: It doesn't... It's just a type of damage he doesn't have any special invulnerabilities against.

And you can't even make the argument that Gladiator might lose confidence and end up being much weaker than his opponents, because it simply doesn't work that way.
Gladiator only loses confidence when something strange happens.
In fights against equal opponents he never struggles and in the end of the day it's even something that he learned to conquer over the years, just like it's supposed to be for his warrior race.

So what can Superman / Captain Marvel / Wonder Woman do to someone like Gladiator, who has much, much, much better feats?

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
4.Wonder Woman vs Beta Ray Bill, WW 6-7/10

Same as above.
What did Wonder Woman do that puts her on the level of theoretically Thor's equal? Hell, Beta Ray Bill has even won some of their encounters. The first one even without having Stormbreaker and with Stormbreaker he is capable of destroying planets as well:
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv95/galanphotos/brb_strike1.jpg

It feels like many DC fans are massivly, massivly overrating the capabilities of the DCNU characters.

It's like an Invincible fan coming alone and creating a fight between Invincible and DCNU Superman.
Invincible would lose. He might be strong in his universe, but the standards in his universe are just much lower. The characters have lower strength and durability levels.

There is absolutely nothing DCNU Wonder Woman can do against someone like Beta Ray Bill.
Feel free to come up with her greatest feats and I will offer you feats of Beta Ray Bill that easily counter what DCNU Wonder Woman has done.

And this is ultimately what this is all about... Again, Superman vs Gladiator / Thor / Hulk / anyone...

Superman's damage output AT HIS BEST is not high enough to surpass the durability levels of Gladiator / Thor / Hulk AT THEIR BEST, while at the same time the damage output of Gladiator / Thor / Hulk AT THEIR BEST is much higher than Superman's durability AT ITS BEST! And I'm strictly talking about feats right now and not wishful thinking or implications.

1.Superman vs Nova
2.Captain Marvel vs Quasar
3.Green Lantern vs Ronan
4.Wonder Woman vs Surfer
5.Martian Manhunter vs BRB
6.Orion vs Gladiator


Only IF, and IF, the matchups are this way, do DC win.

Annihilators, easily.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Annihilators, easily.

LIES!

Explain, "Easily", Thanosi.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
1.Superman vs Nova
2.Captain Marvel vs Quasar
3.Green Lantern vs Ronan
4.Wonder Woman vs Surfer
5.Martian Manhunter vs BRB
6.Orion vs Gladiator


Only IF, and IF, the matchups are this way, do DC win.

This is DANGEROUSLY close to being a lie!

Damnit, I will make the hard choice.

LIES!

JLA win. More top tiers than in Annihilators and better team strategy.Originally posted by Enzeru
Silver Surfer solos for sure...
Few other Annihilators might be able to solo as well...

Edit: Okay, I'll be generous to prevent a DC fanboy tantrum! Silver Surfer, Quasar, Gladiator and Beta Ray Bill are more than enough to absolutely murder-stomp the opponents.

Everyone except Quasar (not sure about him) has destroyed a planet or few, while not holding back and has engaged in fights against characters far more powerful and established than anyone on DCNU JLA. Originally posted by Enzeru
Explain something to me please and let's take Superman instead of Gladiator as an example:

What in your opinion could Superman do to Gladiator, who has vastly superior feats? (And you even have the inferior Captain Marvel stalemating Gladiator)
Let's compare their feats for example...

We have Gladiator, who destroyed a planet simply by punching it:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/2/29361/624540-solarsystem051ws.jpg

Gladiator flew through a star, so I doubt that New DCNU Supermans Heat Vision will bother him that much:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/2/29361/624542-solarsystem051ws.jpg

Hell, he has even absorbed the energy of an explosion that could have wiped out half of the solar system:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/73849/2821907-gladiator_star_strike.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/73849/2821911-gladiator_star_strike_contained_100_x_ftl.jpg

Now imagine Gladiator standing in front of Superman and they're trading punches... Gladiator has feats, where he destroyed a planet and Superman can topple mountains with his strikes, which has been confirmed by the narration and Superman himself over and over again.

Gladiator has faced much, much more established people, who also had comically insane striking feats and Gladiator fought through their damage. He has nano-second reaction speed, so Superman isn't even going to out-speed him.

Not even magic is that big of a factor against Gladiator, because it affects him just the way it affects Superman: It doesn't... It's just a type of damage he doesn't have any special invulnerabilities against.

And you can't even make the argument that Gladiator might lose confidence and end up being much weaker than his opponents, because it simply doesn't work that way.
Gladiator only loses confidence when something strange happens.
In fights against equal opponents he never struggles and in the end of the day it's even something that he learned to conquer over the years, just like it's supposed to be for his warrior race.

So what can Superman / Captain Marvel / Wonder Woman do to someone like Gladiator, who has much, much, much better feats?



Same as above.
What did Wonder Woman do that puts her on the level of theoretically Thor's equal? Hell, Beta Ray Bill has even won some of their encounters. The first one even without having Stormbreaker and with Stormbreaker he is capable of destroying planets as well:
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv95/galanphotos/brb_strike1.jpg

It feels like many DC fans are massivly, massivly overrating the capabilities of the DCNU characters.

It's like an Invincible fan coming alone and creating a fight between Invincible and DCNU Superman.
Invincible would lose. He might be strong in his universe, but the standards in his universe are just much lower. The characters have lower strength and durability levels.

There is absolutely nothing DCNU Wonder Woman can do against someone like Beta Ray Bill.
Feel free to come up with her greatest feats and I will offer you feats of Beta Ray Bill that easily counter what DCNU Wonder Woman has done.

And this is ultimately what this is all about... Again, Superman vs Gladiator / Thor / Hulk / anyone...

Superman's damage output AT HIS BEST is not high enough to surpass the durability levels of Gladiator / Thor / Hulk AT THEIR BEST, while at the same time the damage output of Gladiator / Thor / Hulk AT THEIR BEST is much higher than Superman's durability AT ITS BEST! And I'm strictly talking about feats right now and not wishful thinking or implications.
Lord Mar-Vell ****stomped Annihilators and he never destroyed even a city. And yeah, Omni-Man fought Supreme to a double KO and got up earlier than him, so I would say Invincible verse top tiers are comparable to DC/Marvel top tiers. Even though they have never destroyed any planets.

They destroyed Viltrum....

I'm still waiting for your response, McAbe.

You know that I've invested time to answer your questions on my opinions in detail and now I'm expecting you to do the same for me.
Take your time, if you're busy right now, but I want you to come back to the topic and explain to me what the DCNU characters have done that justifies them taking even a single win in 10 fights against the much more established, versatile and overall powerful Annihilators.

We for sure don't want to leave this thread the way it is now with DC fanboyism and ignorance ruining a potentially good debate, right?

Quasar > Hal

Just because I love the panels

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Gd8NBIma-zo/TNX-qsfxLnI/AAAAAAAAPIk/U2P0AI1zpcQ/s1600/invincible75+-+viltrumplanet.jpg

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Just because I love the panels

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Gd8NBIma-zo/TNX-qsfxLnI/AAAAAAAAPIk/U2P0AI1zpcQ/s1600/invincible75+-+viltrumplanet.jpg

And I love all the panels prior to that page, which added a lot more context to that feat.

Don't post stuff like that, or you'll make some people here believe that Invincible characters can destroy planets just like that.

Lord-Marvell beat Magus who just destroyed some planets.

JLA dont win this.

Annihilators, but Surfer ain't soloing shit.

Originally posted by Zack Fair
Surfer ain't soloing shit.
I was going to say that no one on either team is soloing earlier, but got lazy.

The JLA is apt to have better teamwork, though...

Originally posted by riv6672
I was going to say that no one on either team is soloing earlier, but got lazy.

The JLA is apt to have better teamwork, though...

Considering Ikon, on her lonesome, pretty much soloed the field, does not speak much about their teamwork.

Note I didn'r say anything about their power levels.

Noted, Sir!

Wasn't ikon at the very least low herald?

She had prep, I think. As in, she knew exactly what to do.

Like I said, nothing about power levels. She could be abstract, whatever.

The point was about teamwork.

The point was about them specifically holding back actually.

She was supposed to be in Ronan's tier though. Which pissed him off the whole mini and led to him doing some crazy shit.

The JLA should win a very slight majority, but it's so close that I would call this a split. None of the characters on the JLA are taking the Surfer, while Ronan isn't taking anyone on the JLA.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
She had prep, I think. As in, she knew exactly what to do.

Like I said, nothing about power levels. She could be abstract, whatever.

The point was about teamwork.

Cheetah soloed the JLA.

Originally posted by Stoic
The JLA should win a very slight majority, but it's so close that I would call this a split. None of the characters on the JLA are taking the Surfer, while Ronan isn't taking anyone on the JLA.

Ronan could take people on the JLA though.

Originally posted by carver9
Cheetah soloed the JLA. You mean that ambush in the jungle?

Originally posted by carver9
Ronan could take people on the JLA though.

Like who? If he got off a sneak attack sure, but up close against anyone other than Hal, I'm not seeing it. I singled Hal out because a fight between Ronan, and Hal leans strongly towards Hal beating him nearly every time. Ronan is the weakest on his team. Ikon measured him on panel after all.

Okay, let me make this even clearer for you fools...

If we had the DCNU comics with Wonder Woman being in them, but not doing ANYTHING from the first day up until now... She wouldn't be a herald.
I understand that you think she is supposed to be a herald, because that's the point of the character and it was established in pre DCNU, but that doesn't automatically transfer to DCNU.

So if DCNU Wonder Woman never did something, she wouldn't even be on peak human. Do you understand that?
If DCNU came along and picked up a car... she would be a low meta human. Luckily for her she had feats, where we assume that she is above low meta humans without a doubt.

But the feats, that determine which level she is on, don't put her at the level of actual Marvel high heralds at all.
God damn, not even the feats of DCNU Superman justify him being in the talks to fight against someone like Silver Surfer. Some KMC fools even give Superman the majority of the victories.

What is wrong with you?

I called every single one of you out to defend your opinion on why Wonder Woman could keep up with Beta Ray Bill, who faced much more established opponents and destroyed planets in his fights. That is power!

Silver Surfer alone could solo half of the JLA without any effort whatsoever judging by his feats.

Then there are some people thinking that Nova can't keep up with the JLA members... Have you actually read anything with Nova in it? No one on the JLA roster has the feats that prove that they could destroy Nova's force fields.

Hell, Quasars force fields have deflected the attacks of Galactus and he used his shields there to shield few of his teammates.
In theory Quasar could simply create a force field around the Annihilators, who would use their exotic abilities to take the Justice League out.

There is absolutely NO chance the JLA can win this fight. It's a spite. If you're giving the DCNU JLA any majority in the fight, then you're a fanboyish fool, who doesn't read comics, speaks purely out of biasm and the worst of it all is that you're not even backing your claims up.
You write down some shit, leave the thread and never come back.

Why do I care so much? I don't

I'm writing this down, because if anyone, who is curious about how this fight might turn out to be, opens up Google and types in "Annihilators VS DCNU JLA", they might end up in this thread and they will see me posting scans and talking about actual feats of the Annihilators, which set them above the DCNU JLA big time, while they won't see any counter-arguments by the DC fanboys, who simply assume stuff.

Hell yeah!

Let me show you how desperate I am for anyone here to bring up arguments on why the Justice League might have a chance of taking even a single fight... I actually unignored Raj for a second just to see if he has to say anything proper regarding this fight.

Of course he didn't:

Originally posted by abhilegend
JLA win. More top tiers than in Annihilators and better team strategy.

Yeah, no. Anyone, who takes a look at my posts will see who the more powerful members has.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Lord Mar-Vell ****stomped Annihilators and he never destroyed even a city. And yeah, Omni-Man fought Supreme to a double KO and got up earlier than him, so I would say Invincible verse top tiers are comparable to DC/Marvel top tiers. Even though they have never destroyed any planets.

So this is basically the tragic of the KMC forums and actually of every battle board:
"If you can't beat them, lowball them."
And that's my quote. Feel free to use it.

Did you see Raj's first statement?
"Lord Mar-Vell beat the shit out of the Annihilators and he never even destroyed a city"...

It doesn't matter what he didn't destroy. He engaged in a fight against a powerful team and had the upper hand against them. He has proven to be superior even though he didn't showcase it in a different instance.
But we still know that Lord Mar-Vell uber powerful, simply because he faced the Annihilators and had the upper hand.

That speaks for Lord Mar-Vell and not against the Annihilators.
Everyone, who doesn't judge the events from a biased point of view will rather say that Lord Mar-Vell would do the same to the Justice League, who all have less feats than the Annihilators, rather than the Annihilators would look equally bad against the Justice League, simply because Lord Mar-Vell beat the Annihilators without having planet busting feats.

Raj, slap yourself for that statement, please. But now let's continue.

Rajs second statement is that because Supreme and Omni-Man (both Image characters) fought to a standstil, they're equal to Marvel and DC characters. What?

1. That wasn't Alan Moore's Supreme. That was an entirely different version of the character and is automatically less relevant of a fight.
2. Both Supreme and Omni-Man knocked each other out, which caused a crater on the moon or something like that.
3. The durability / offensive capabilites of Omni-Man, when it comes to planet busting were already established in the Invincible comics... in the scan that DarkSaint85 already posted before, while leaving out a lot of the context:

It took Omni-Man, Invincible and a third Viltrumite to even consider busting the planet and even then they needed the help from Space Racer, who wields one of the most potent weapons in the Invincible universe.
Space Racer had to shoot the planet, because the Viltrumites knew they could have died upon the impact itself, if the blast from the weapon didn't get rid of the surface first.
So they had to fly in perfect speed and precision to travel after the blast, so that they then could destroy the core of the planet.

While meantime in the Marvel universe characters like Beta Ray Bill and Gladiator swing and destroy planets, while characters like Surfer and Sentry destroy planets with their energy projection. And characters like Nova and Quasar have force fields that are far above the planetary level.

And meantime in the DC universe Superman, while not holding back topples mountains with his strikes, while the other DC characters don't even have feats.
God damn, Namor would beat Wonder Woman.

NAMOR!

Originally posted by Enzeru
I'm still waiting for your response, McAbe.

You know that I've invested time to answer your questions on my opinions in detail and now I'm expecting you to do the same for me.
Take your time, if you're busy right now, but I want you to come back to the topic and explain to me what the DCNU characters have done that justifies them taking even a single win in 10 fights against the much more established, versatile and overall powerful Annihilators.

We for sure don't want to leave this thread the way it is now with DC fanboyism and ignorance ruining a potentially good debate, right?

Sure, buddy. I come here and state my opinion, I don't discuss that much because, let's be honest, within the last couple of years i have seen maybe 2 poster change their opinions because of good and solid debates. Most stick to what they believe. Selective reading/thinking, denying, highballing, lowballing etc. etc.

Originally posted by Enzeru
Explain something to me please and let's take Superman instead of Gladiator as an example:

What in your opinion could Superman do to Gladiator, who has vastly superior feats? (And you even have the inferior Captain Marvel stalemating Gladiator)
Let's compare their feats for example...

We have Gladiator, who destroyed a planet simply by punching it:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/2/29361/624540-solarsystem051ws.jpg

Gladiator flew through a star, so I doubt that New DCNU Supermans Heat Vision will bother him that much:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/2/29361/624542-solarsystem051ws.jpg

Hell, he has even absorbed the energy of an explosion that could have wiped out half of the solar system:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/73849/2821907-gladiator_star_strike.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/73849/2821911-gladiator_star_strike_contained_100_x_ftl.jpg

Now imagine Gladiator standing in front of Superman and they're trading punches... Gladiator has feats, where he destroyed a planet and Superman can topple mountains with his strikes, which has been confirmed by the narration and Superman himself over and over again.

Gladiator has faced much, much more established people, who also had comically insane striking feats and Gladiator fought through their damage. He has nano-second reaction speed, so Superman isn't even going to out-speed him.

Not even magic is that big of a factor against Gladiator, because it affects him just the way it affects Superman: It doesn't... It's just a type of damage he doesn't have any special invulnerabilities against.

And you can't even make the argument that Gladiator might lose confidence and end up being much weaker than his opponents, because it simply doesn't work that way.
Gladiator only loses confidence when something strange happens.
In fights against equal opponents he never struggles and in the end of the day it's even something that he learned to conquer over the years, just like it's supposed to be for his warrior race.

So what can Superman / Captain Marvel / Wonder Woman do to someone like Gladiator, who has much, much, much better feats?



Same as above.
What did Wonder Woman do that puts her on the level of theoretically Thor's equal? Hell, Beta Ray Bill has even won some of their encounters. The first one even without having Stormbreaker and with Stormbreaker he is capable of destroying planets as well:
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv95/galanphotos/brb_strike1.jpg

It feels like many DC fans are massivly, massivly overrating the capabilities of the DCNU characters.

It's like an Invincible fan coming alone and creating a fight between Invincible and DCNU Superman.
Invincible would lose. He might be strong in his universe, but the standards in his universe are just much lower. The characters have lower strength and durability levels.

There is absolutely nothing DCNU Wonder Woman can do against someone like Beta Ray Bill.
Feel free to come up with her greatest feats and I will offer you feats of Beta Ray Bill that easily counter what DCNU Wonder Woman has done.

And this is ultimately what this is all about... Again, Superman vs Gladiator / Thor / Hulk / anyone...

Superman's damage output AT HIS BEST is not high enough to surpass the durability levels of Gladiator / Thor / Hulk AT THEIR BEST, while at the same time the damage output of Gladiator / Thor / Hulk AT THEIR BEST is much higher than Superman's durability AT ITS BEST! And I'm strictly talking about feats right now and not wishful thinking or implications.

1. Superman vs Gladiator.
Planet busting is not an indicator of how a fight would go between heralds. It's not Glads vs a planet but Glads vs Superman, while funny to write it like this, let's consider this for a moment.
1st, the size of the planet is debatable, it could be the size of Kepler-37b or Jupiter, but it looks small tbh, like the one from BRB and WBH.
2nd, Heroes who are Earth"bound", who spend most of their time on earth, will almost never have Planet busting feats, because Earth, in Marvel and DC, has this special indestructible attribute, we had this discussion already. That's why a Green Lantern, BRB or SS will have such feats and others who are more powerful won't. They call it here space cheese, I still like those feats and think they are valid. We shouldn't forget the portrayals of the chars though.
3rd, Supermans mountain toppling punches were felt in space and shook the Watchtower which indicates that it was far more than that.
4th, look at their strength feats, you take Glads Planet busting, you have to accept the 5 days earthbenchpress. BTW, most people would say Kurse beats Glads, BRB or a GL even though he has no planet busting feats. Just because he beat Thor. IMO Glads would beat kurse if he fights smart with speed, but that is just me.
5th, look at their fights, lows and highs. Everytime Glads fights a herald he loses, does well when he stalemates but mostly he goes down against a well known hero. Gambit and Cannonball are his lows, but let's ignore this, Take his defeat by the hands of Hulk. The feedback of his HV hurt him there btw. Superman has the better fighting feats against HH, the better HV feats, and better strength feats, pre-DCnU and in DCnU.
6th, the chars from DCnU are on the level of those from pre-flashpoint, at least they were portrayed that way pretty fast, like supes benchpressing or AM having now WW or holding back Supes strength. So they are in the HH tier in my book. Now look at DD who was above DOS but below HP, he was ripped apart by a serious Supes. This is the fighting feat that let's me believe that Superman is currently above the HH tier.
7th, Gladiator is Superman, or a lesser version of him, like Hyperion or SunGod and even in the beginning the Sentry. You can say what you want but you have to admit this isn't about science, it's also about money, company politics and popularity, Superman would always beat those pretenders 10/10 in a crossover comic, the only two who might stand a chance due to popularity are Thor and Hulk. This is their Superpower too. In a Forum fight Glads should go even but his lack of feats, especially combat feats and appearances will cost him a draw.

Billy vs Glads. Billy is a HH who can hurt the MM and Supes. He changed compared to his former self but goind by Black Adam, who is a solid HH and how he did against an normal Ultraman in their rematch I can safely say that they are in the Superman league, or Glads league. Now I would give BA the win over Glads, because he is more experienced but Billy isn't, he would fight like Glads. Glad would try to fght like he does and Billy would have some fun. It would last too long to have a winner, till then everyone else would be finished.

WW vs BRB. WW is the better fighter. Her strength is solid in the CL100. Her fights with Gods were impressive and when she takes of her bracers she becomes simply a meanie. The strength gap, if there is any, is marginal at best. The speed is on her side, as is her skill. She has a sword that can decapitate Bill, a lasso that can subdue him, is worthy enough to wield Stormbreaker and use it against Bill, can block every energy attack with her bracers and if she takes them off she will be above him, imo. This isn't thor either so no popularity bonus for BRB, only for WW.

That would be in short my reasoning. Humor me if I don't write more but as you said earlier, I am indeed doing a lot of other things and just here for some fun^^.

Originally posted by Enzeru
Okay, let me make this even clearer for you fools...

If we had the DCNU comics with Wonder Woman being in them, but not doing ANYTHING from the first day up until now... She wouldn't be a herald.
I understand that you think she is supposed to be a herald, because that's the point of the character and it was established in pre DCNU, but that doesn't automatically transfer to DCNU.

So if DCNU Wonder Woman never did something, she wouldn't even be on peak human. Do you understand that?
If DCNU came along and picked up a car... she would be a low meta human. Luckily for her she had feats, where we assume that she is above low meta humans without a doubt.

But the feats, that determine which level she is on, don't put her at the level of actual Marvel high heralds at all.
God damn, not even the feats of DCNU Superman justify him being in the talks to fight against someone like Silver Surfer. Some KMC fools even give Superman the majority of the victories.

What is wrong with you?

I called every single one of you out to defend your opinion on why Wonder Woman could keep up with Beta Ray Bill, who faced much more established opponents and destroyed planets in his fights. That is power!

Silver Surfer alone could solo half of the JLA without any effort whatsoever judging by his feats.

Then there are some people thinking that Nova can't keep up with the JLA members... Have you actually read anything with Nova in it? No one on the JLA roster has the feats that prove that they could destroy Nova's force fields.

Hell, Quasars force fields have deflected the attacks of Galactus and he used his shields there to shield few of his teammates.
In theory Quasar could simply create a force field around the Annihilators, who would use their exotic abilities to take the Justice League out.

There is absolutely NO chance the JLA can win this fight. It's a spite. If you're giving the DCNU JLA any majority in the fight, then you're a fanboyish fool, who doesn't read comics, speaks purely out of biasm and the worst of it all is that you're not even backing your claims up.
You write down some shit, leave the thread and never come back.

Why do I care so much? I don't

I'm writing this down, because if anyone, who is curious about how this fight might turn out to be, opens up Google and types in "Annihilators VS DCNU JLA", they might end up in this thread and they will see me posting scans and talking about actual feats of the Annihilators, which set them above the DCNU JLA big time, while they won't see any counter-arguments by the DC fanboys, who simply assume stuff.

Hell yeah!


I'm still trying to figure out why you had to begin with calling people fools, when you say that you don't care?

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
Planet busting is not an indicator of how a fight would go between heralds. It's not Glads vs a planet but Glads vs Superman, while funny to write it like this, let's consider this for a moment.

I'm afraid that it is and I'll now bring up the argument that I always made regarding this topic:

Take a strongman (Superman) and a karate master (Gladiator), who are both equals in size and speed.
The strongman can benchpress 300 pounds, while the karate master can't, but at the same time the strongman can't punch through a layer of bricks, while the karate master can.

It's not about the density and mass of both humans / characters opposing to the density and mass of the bricks / planet. It's about technique at that point.
In theory the strongman should be able to generate so much power to punch through the layer of bricks, but he can't. He'll end up harming himself. The karate master simply punches through it.

So if we go by Superman potentially being physically stronger than Gladiator thanks to his one ridiculous and never ever again showcased bench pressing strength, he still be the one, who would take a much bigger amount of damage.

There is no position in which Superman could capture Gladiator in a way, where he would be able to hold him down for a longer period of time, without getting tagged and at that point we're discussing if Superman has the durability to either take multiple punches, which have the power and technique to destroy planets or deal with being shot by energy beams hotter than the core of a star.

Superman has too many disadvantages, especially because he doesn't have the durability feats in DCNU that prove he could last against Gladiator's offensive capabilities.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
1st, the size of the planet is debatable, it could be the size of Kepler-37b or Jupiter, but it looks small tbh, like the one from BRB and WBH.

Sizes of moons and mountains don't matter either, but we assume that they're smaller than planets and therefore provide for less spectacular feats, right?

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
3rd, Supermans mountain toppling punches were felt in space and shook the Watchtower which indicates that it was far more than that.

In the past shockwaves of Thor's attacks destroyed... damn, literally erradicated nearby mountains.
Recently Thor hit Gorr so hard with Mjolnir that it not only scarred the planet they were on but also did the same thing to a nearby Moon.
And Thor also got hit by Sentry and the impact was felt on a planet with 19 billion residents and he was still not out.

These are great high end feats, which establish their striking ability as much greater than Superman's, who punched H'El and once again it was stated that he wasn't holding back. It would have been enough to destroy a mountain and the shockwave (without being slowed down by obstacles) traveled all the way up to the exosphere, where the Watchtower should be.
Don't get me wrong, it's a great feat, but it doesn't compare to the stuff Marvel characters do. It's still a tier below them, because their strikes have so much more impact and side effects.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
IMO Glads would beat kurse if he fights smart with speed, but that is just me.

I agree. That's why I give pre DCNU Superman the vicotories over Thor and Hulk. He might not be able to keep up with their highest striking and durability showings, but thanks to his speed advantage he can take his time and approach the fight the way he wants.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
Take Gladiator's defeat by the hands of Hulk. The feedback of his HV hurt him there btw. Superman has the better fighting feats against HH, the better HV feats, and better strength feats, pre-DCnU and in DCnU.

Now there are double standards unfortunately.
In your opinion Gladiator would beat Kurse, but you're arguing that he lost to Hulk. Everyone loses to Hulk for the same reason you named later on in your post: money, fan-demand and stuff like that.

It doesn't change the fact that if we take Gladiator's massive speed advantage over Thor and Hulk he shouldn't lose to these two characters, but he does, because it sells more comics.
However at the same time he still faces more established characters and has arguably superior feats to DCNU Superman, because I have yet to see a statement to Superman's Heat Vision being more potent than the core of a star.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
6th, the chars from DCnU are on the level of those from pre-flashpoint, at least they were portrayed that way pretty fast, like supes benchpressing or AM having now WW or holding back Supes strength. So they are in the HH tier in my book.

No, that's not true at all. Have you been reading DCNU comics from the very first beginning? Superman started off as someone, who couldn't even fly in the early DCNU Action Comics and learned it over time.
DCNU is a completely new take on the characters for the most part. Their power level didn't carry over. It had to establish itself. And characters like Superman still don't have the massive amount of consistant, high end feats like in the pre DCNU comics. A character like Wonder Woman has barely any feats.

Ask yourself this... If you had to compare pre DCNU Superman's feats to DCNU Superman's feats... Who would come out on top?
What about Wonder Woman? What about Hal Jordan? What about Shazam and Black Adam? The DCNU characters would lose every single time.

That's the problem DC fans make... That one bench pressing feat of Superman in DCNU is the golden standard according the DC fans, when it comes to the tiers of the DCNU characters.
Since Superman did it, he must be always running around and performing at +100000000000000 planetary level strength and the other DCNU characters are just like that, while in fact they really aren't :-7

Didn't Superman himself say that there is only one being in the universe that can destroy a world? We have yet to see Superman or any other member from the Justice League performing such a feat, while in the meantime almost every high herald in Marvel has one of those feats.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
You can say what you want but you have to admit this isn't about science, it's also about money, company politics and popularity, Superman would always beat those pretenders 10/10 in a crossover comic, the only two who might stand a chance due to popularity are Thor and Hulk.

That has nothing to do with the fights we discuss on battle boards.
In a perfect world we wouldn't even be wasting time on this ridiculous bullsh!t, because it leads nowhere and even if we establish the fact that Gladiator beats Hulk, one day you might get someone stupid like Pak, who lets Hulk beat Gladiator convincingly, while ignoring all of Gladiator's options and we end up discussing that nonsense with people like carver9.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
This is their Superpower too. In a Forum fight Glads should go even but his lack of feats, especially combat feats and appearances will cost him a draw.

So you're saying that a character with more feats beats a character with less, but convincingly better feats?
You know, I really lost the fun in debates, because there is barely anyone, who comes up with good arguments nowdays, but that statement might just killed the last bit of my enjoyment for all of this.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
That would be in short my reasoning. Humor me if I don't write more but as you said earlier, I am indeed doing a lot of other things and just here for some fun^^.

Alles juti, mein Bester.

Originally posted by Stoic
I'm still trying to figure out why you had to begin with calling people fools, when you say that you don't care?

Because I am a fool.
I may be smarter and most likely more handsome than all of you, but in the end of the day I'm also an idiot, just like everyone else here.

We're all fools and idiots for doing all of this. Why are we doing it? Who cares who would win in a fight between the Annihilators and the Justice League? That fight will never take place and even if it ever did, it would end up being dramatically underwhelming and most likely end up boring stalemates to avoid upsetting fans.

This is so meaningless and KMC members make it even less fun and unenjoyable than it has been for years.

That's probably the biggest wall of text of not caring that I've ever seen.

JLA.

Annihilators still win.

Originally posted by carver9
Ronan could take people on the JLA though.

Ronan is the weak link.

Superman uses his new feat to push the Annihilators really far
In space.
Very fast.

Originally posted by Estacado
Superman uses his new feat to push the Annihilators really far
In space.
Very fast.

Superman couldn't overcome Gladiator or Surfer. Bill is debateable.

He just pushed something that was like 10 times bigger then Earth.
He could easily push the opposing team.
Really fast.

Originally posted by Estacado
He just pushed something that was like 10 times bigger then Earth.
He could easily push the opposing team.
Really fast.

Push their shit in.

Superman and Martian Manhunter's shared feat was impressive, but herald level characters do crazy feats like that once in a while. For example Surfer recently used his PC to power the entire Impericon planet, stated to be bigger than any five planets combined, whose hotel suites had their own orbiting moons. Not to mention the Impericon was previously powered by the heart of an abstract being on par with Eternity.

Or if you want impressive team feats. how about Quasar, Surfer, and Ronan fusing two suns together.

Originally posted by Stoic
I'm still trying to figure out why you had to begin with calling people fools, when you say that you don't care?

Originally posted by One-Punch
Superman and Martian Manhunter's shared feat was impressive, but herald level characters do crazy feats like that once in a while. For example Surfer recently used his PC to power the entire Impericon planet, stated to be bigger than any five planets combined, whose hotel suites had their own orbiting moons. Not to mention the Impericon was previously powered by the heart of an abstract being on par with Eternity.

Or if you want impressive team feats. how about Quasar, Surfer, and Ronan fusing two suns together. I agree it is just another impressive feat which ultimately has no bearing whatsoever how these characters stack up against one another.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I agree it is just another impressive feat which ultimately has no bearing whatsoever how these characters stack up against one another.

Even still, fusing two suns into one is astronomically more impressive than pushing away a spaceship that dwarfs Earth.

Annihilators win this easily

Originally posted by One-Punch
Even still, fusing two suns into one is astronomically more impressive than pushing away a spaceship that dwarfs Earth. Completely agree which is why I find people going to crazy over it very troubling.

Sun>>>>>>planets.

Originally posted by Enzeru
God damn, Namor would beat Wonder Woman.

NAMOR!

FOOLISH LIES!

Diana cuffed, crushes Namor!

Diana uncuffed, MURDERS Namor!

Originally posted by maxivitopowe
Annihilators win this easily

Lol. No

Team Surfer wins

Ronan is a let down DC wins