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Force, sabers all out.

Luke. His speed and skill matches Palpatines.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Luke. His speed and skill matches Palpatines.

And Mace's is not ?

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No.

Originally posted by Marco1907
And Mace's is not?
Originally posted by Nephthys
No.
Vaapad

Using the amp he got from Sidious as an indication that he is as fast as Sidious is, is a fallacy at best.

The Vaapad amp was massive and he wasn't even thinking about what he was doing he just threw all his eggs into one basket and let Vaapad do it for him, he still would've died the moment Sidious stopped using a lightsaber.

Mace was pissed off to unimaginable levels even before the amp.. his inner darkness was greater than ever before, the institution and government he prized and loved so much, the war he saw countless beings and friends die in... all of it was just some Sith plot to gain power.

Then add the amp on top of that and you realize how waaaay beyond his regular power Windu was.

He has absolutely no chance against Luke.

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Lol @ everything everyone has said in this thread.

Vaapad is not a Force technique. It's a mindset, thus can be equally used against anyone with same effectiveness.

Its charged by the opposition's anger/darkness though.

^It's mostly charged by Windu's inner darkness, which was at an all time high in that fight.

So we could call it a Peak performance for Windu.

Also perhaps Windu is just best suited to fight Sidious. Kind of like how Kenobi was best suited to fight Skywalker. .

Originally posted by Sinious
Its charged by the opposition's anger/darkness though.
Not really.
It's more about relishing fight, giving yourself to the trill of battle.

Regardless, according to The Making of ROTS Windu is a level 9 combatant, which is on level with Yoda and Sidious.

I am, also, willing to give an element of the doubt that Sidious during DE was out of practice, so not as good as in RotS.

So it would be a great fight, with more or less even odds.

Simple usage of Vaapad ;

And does he not reflect the opponents darkness back at him? You all make it sound like who the opponent is does not matter at all.

I've always taken it as him deflecting the power of his opponent's blows back at them. Making him the perfect opponent for Sidious. But absorbing and deflecting the dark side of the Force itself from an opponent makes little to no sense to me personally.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
I've always taken it as him deflecting the power of his opponent's blows back at them. Making him the perfect opponent for Sidious. But absorbing and deflecting the dark side of the Force itself from an opponent makes little to no sense to me personally.

I never meant to specifically state it like that. I wonder how Sidious' lightning effected him.

Windu's performance varies a lot. Taking his ROTS performance only would lead to inaccurate opinions.

Sidious' Lightning didn't really effect him at all. It passed in and out of his body, because Vaapad is a channel as well as a state if mind. Sidious did push this to the limits, however.

Originally posted by Sinious

Windu's performance varies a lot. Taking his ROTS performance only would lead to inaccurate opinions.

In AotC, Nick Gillard personally declared Windu as ''second only to Yoda'' in terms of power, and same in clone wars as well. He also speedblitzed Jango Fett in AotC, who was good enough to fight equally with AotC Kenobi, and good enough to kill council member Coleman Trebor.

Originally posted by Marco1907
In AotC, Nick Gillard personally declared Windu as ''second only to Yoda'' in terms of power, and same in clone wars as well. He also speedblitzed Jango Fett in AotC, who was good enough to fight equally with AotC Kenobi, and good enough to kill council member Coleman Trebor.

Yeah pretty impressive. Still nothing suggests that he would be a lethal threat to DE Luke.

Luke solidly.

Really depends on what you consider Luke's peak. Before and during his time as Palpatine's apprentice, he had a fair amount of inner darkness that Mace could exploit--much less so than at the end of the trilogy.

I'd say Mace probably takes it if we're talking Dark!Luke, and Luke wins if otherwise. It should he a really close fight either way, though.