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that video is a little dated

Its less then a year old, still holds true.

Her attitudes/opinions are dated as ****, though.

She makes a couple really good points, but overshoots her limits several times. The truest, and most obvious reason for movie hate is that a particular movie was actually bad. Her arguments about Batman hate fall flat because the first two Nolan films were hailed by critics and fans alike. They only turned when the quality of the movie dipped in the final installment. She also quips that the Mandarin thing was forgotten, but it wasn't by fans. Mainstream audiences didn't care, bc they'd never heard of the Mandarin, so the overall backlash wasn't as big. And IM had pumped out two good installments and Avengers, so there was a lot of goodwill stored up to allow them to slip up. So yeah, simpler explanations.

By the same token, even people who didn't give a sh*t about Superman killing Zod were pretty tepid about MoS. Saying that there's a bias against DC bc of the killing is maybe a tiny bit true, but mostly it's just trying to find a scapegoat for a flawed movie.

I liked her point about archetypes, though. DC has essentially created templates. A lot of the most interesting Superman stories aren't about Superman, because he's a theme upon which writers try their variations in myriad forms. Imo, that's the one really good point she makes, and DC should embrace those archetypes and turn them into universal myths like the best Batman/Superman/WW writers seem to be able to do.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Her attitudes/opinions are dated as ****, though.

I don't even know what you mean. She is talking about current films.

Originally posted by Digi
She makes a couple really good points, but overshoots her limits several times. The truest, and most obvious reason for movie hate is that a particular movie was actually bad. Her arguments about Batman hate fall flat because the first two Nolan films were hailed by critics and fans alike. They only turned when the quality of the movie dipped in the final installment. She also quips that the Mandarin thing was forgotten, but it wasn't by fans. Mainstream audiences didn't care, bc they'd never heard of the Mandarin, so the overall backlash wasn't as big. And IM had pumped out two good installments and Avengers, so there was a lot of goodwill stored up to allow them to slip up. So yeah, simpler explanations.

By the same token, even people who didn't give a sh*t about Superman killing Zod were pretty tepid about MoS. Saying that there's a bias against DC bc of the killing is maybe a tiny bit true, but mostly it's just trying to find a scapegoat for a flawed movie.

I liked her point about archetypes, though. DC has essentially created templates. A lot of the most interesting Superman stories aren't about Superman, because he's a theme upon which writers try their variations in myriad forms. Imo, that's the one really good point she makes, and DC should embrace those archetypes and turn them into universal myths like the best Batman/Superman/WW writers seem to be able to do.

Have to disagree with you on several points, tbh. This one stuck out most, though:



If you pick... Five. Even ten, of the best Superman stories ever written, you'll find that they're about Superman himself and how he deals with things around him.

Sure, I get where people are coming from with the whole "they're icons" thing. I do. That doesn't mean that they aren't open to change or adaptation, or to melodrama. It can, and has been done many times.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
I don't even know what you mean. She is talking about current films.

It's that same old "DC's characters are more set in stone/more moral/less relatable" shtick, which hasn't been true for years.

I'll be the first one to admit that Marvel does do a better job for the most part in adapting its characters to the screen, at least in terms of how close they are to the source material. That said, some of the reasons people had for disliking MoS were frankly... I don't know. Confusing? Like a lot of the people watching it hadn't read a Superman comic in the last 10-20 years. Sure, there are people who did, and felt that it wasn't the version of Superman up on screen that they wanted to see, without realising that the Superman in MoS is far closer to the comics than Reeve's version, even with how far apart it was.

======

Not trying to be overtly hostile; just tired of some of the things she says coming up yet again.

I don't really have a developed opinion on this topic.


I have tons of knowledge to draw upon. But, for some reason, I just don't really care about the topic as I do not see them as "DC" vs. "Marvel" films.

For me, Batman Begins was a FAAAAAAAAR more enjoyable film that Avengers. Same with The Dark Knight. But many disagree who liked the Marvel film, better. For me, I view them as comic book movies.

Oh, hey, I loved the shit out of Watchmen. Look how many comic book fans hated that one. You know what I say? **** the comic book whiners. **** them very very much.

I honestly don't understand the Watchmen hate. Were people actually expecting a completely panel for panel accurate adaptation? That'd be ridiculous.

Watchmen was one of the best movies I ever seen once I understood better it and watched it a few times.

Watchman was good except for some of those fight scenes. The slow motion nonsense gets annoying.

could the person just be jealous that she isn;t the one making these films???

Originally posted by Digi

By the same token, even people who didn't give a sh*t about Superman killing Zod were pretty tepid about MoS. Saying that there's a bias against DC bc of the killing is maybe a tiny bit true, but mostly it's just trying to find a scapegoat for a flawed movie.

Yea, killing Zod is not a major complaint I have. Now Jonathan Kent, or how the visual storytelling of the fighting didn't show Superman's protective instinct very well, or the overdone Jesus metaphor... (he is SUPERMAN, he does not NEED to be Jesus)



This I agree.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I honestly don't understand the Watchmen hate. Were people actually expecting a completely panel for panel accurate adaptation? That'd be ridiculous. That's basically what Watchmen was though. It is one of the most painstakingly accurate adaptations of a comic story I've seen. The only major difference (not omission or embellishment) is the lack of a big psychic squid at the end.

Originally posted by dadudemon

Oh, hey, I loved the shit out of Watchmen. Look how many comic book fans hated that one. You know what I say? **** the comic book whiners. **** them very very much.
Yeah, Watchmen was a great movie.

The main reason why it flopped was because few of the viewers read the comic books.
The movie is nonsensical if you haven't read the comic books.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I honestly don't understand the Watchmen hate. Were people actually expecting a completely panel for panel accurate adaptation? That'd be ridiculous. Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Watchmen was one of the best movies I ever seen once I understood better it and watched it a few times. ppl just hated on it because it wasn't Batman etc. Tbf though I think reading the book itself helps you understand the movie more.

Originally posted by NemeBro
That's basically what Watchmen was though. It is one of the most painstakingly accurate adaptations of a comic story I've seen. The only major difference (not omission or embellishment) is the lack of a big psychic squid at the end.

that's my point. it's probably the most literal example of an adaptation of a comic, and yet people still bitched because of extremely minor changes.

Originally posted by Insane Titan
ppl just hated on it because it wasn't Batman etc. Tbf though I think reading the book itself helps you understand the movie more.

it does give you a deeper appreciation, yeah.

Watchmen was amazing, the hate isn't justified.

As far as Nolan Batman films, Batman Begins was truly brilliant. Loved every second of it. Heath Ledger was the highlight of TDK, he stole the damn movie.

The Avengers is the most enjoyable movie experience I've ever had in my life.


Now that it's established I don't pick sides with Marvel or DC, MoS stunk shit for many reasons not including Zod's death. Tone/atmosphere was dull and dreary, direction took itself too seriously, writing was incredibly shitty, Jonathan Kent's death felt forced and wrong, characterization of Lois Lane was lacking, villain was stupid evil etc... and destruction porn DOES get boring without tangible emotion or narrative to spice it up.

Originally posted by Firefly218
Watchmen was amazing, the hate isn't justified.

As far as Nolan Batman films, Batman Begins was truly brilliant. Loved every second of it. Heath Ledger was the highlight of TDK, he stole the damn movie.

The Avengers is the most enjoyable movie experience I've ever had in my life.


Now that it's established I don't pick sides with Marvel or DC, MoS stunk shit for many reasons not including Zod's death. Tone/atmosphere was dull and dreary, direction took itself too seriously, writing was incredibly shitty, Jonathan Kent's death felt forced and wrong, characterization of Lois Lane was lacking, villain was stupid evil etc... and destruction porn DOES get boring without tangible emotion or narrative to spice it up.

pretty much agree with all this post

Originally posted by Firefly218
Watchmen was amazing, the hate isn't justified.

As far as Nolan Batman films, Batman Begins was truly brilliant. Loved every second of it. Heath Ledger was the highlight of TDK, he stole the damn movie.

The Avengers is the most enjoyable movie experience I've ever had in my life.


Now that it's established I don't pick sides with Marvel or DC, MoS stunk shit for many reasons not including Zod's death. Tone/atmosphere was dull and dreary, direction took itself too seriously, writing was incredibly shitty, Jonathan Kent's death felt forced and wrong, characterization of Lois Lane was lacking, villain was stupid evil etc... and destruction porn DOES get boring without tangible emotion or narrative to spice it up.

Why did Zods death suck?

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Why did Zods death suck?
I don't have much of a problem with it. Supes had to kill Zod to save that family.

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
Yeah, Watchmen was a great movie.

The main reason why it flopped was because few of the viewers read the comic books.
The movie is nonsensical if you haven't read the comic books.


Hence why so many directors were attached to the project & walked away without a clue of how to approach such a story.

Yes, the movie was well done but honestly as a comic book, The Watchmen was a very convoluted, over the top, ridiculously eccentric piece of literature.

Seriously, faking an alien invasion?

I'm surprised this movie got the green light in the first place...not enough WatchMen/Moore fans to gain box office profit & a hard marketing sell to the general public who simply thought they were buying tickets to a "super hero" movie.

Originally posted by Esau Cairn
Hence why so many directors were attached to the project & walked away without a clue of how to approach such a story.

Yes, the movie was well done but honestly as a comic book, The Watchmen was a very convoluted, over the top, ridiculously eccentric piece of literature.

Seriously, faking an alien invasion?

I'm surprised this movie got the green light in the first place...not enough WatchMen/Moore fans to gain box office profit & a hard marketing sell to the general public who simply thought they were buying tickets to a "super hero" movie.

On the bright side, Snyder was insightful enough not to use a giant squid

Originally posted by Esau Cairn
Hence why so many directors were attached to the project & walked away without a clue of how to approach such a story.

Yes, the movie was well done but honestly as a comic book, The Watchmen was a very convoluted, over the top, ridiculously eccentric piece of literature.

Seriously, faking an alien invasion?

I'm surprised this movie got the green light in the first place...not enough WatchMen/Moore fans to gain box office profit & a hard marketing sell to the general public who simply thought they were buying tickets to a "super hero" movie.
I don't understand why guys like you keep whining about the movie.

It was one of those movies closest to the source material, something that most other movies based on books/games rarely ever achieve.
Most directors/screenwriters never bother to consider the source material. It's like they only read the synopsis, or a few pages/scenes of the book/game.

A good example of another well-researched movie was Silent Hill 1.
It was modified to suit the Western crowds, but the movie somehow stayed true to the source, minus the Alessa shock value.

Originally posted by Firefly218
villain was stupid evil etc...

Outside of Loki and the WS, Zod is honestly a more compelling villain than the vast majority of villains in the MCU films.

Originally posted by ares834
Outside of Loki and the WS, Zod is honestly a more compelling villain than the vast majority of villains in the MCU films.

The MCU focuses very much on the heroes, leaving the villains underdeveloped. Because the heroes tend to be awesome, Marvel gets away with weak villains. The one instance in which the focus was on the villain in Winter Soldier, Marvel knocked it out of the f uckin park. With Ultron coming up, I think the focus will be shifting more to the villains.

As for MoS, Michael Shannon gave a tremendous performance. I still didn't find his character compelling though, and that had more to do with shitty writing and character development imo.

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
I don't understand why guys like you keep whining about the movie.



And I don't understand how guys like you mistake references to the graphic novel as an attack on the movie?

Well, there were alot of things about Watchmen that didn't translate well to the screen.

As for the change being Doctor Manhattan being the cause of destruction in New York, it makes sense on paper. It doesn't logically.

And for Man of Steel, there was definitely a good and compelling movie there. The problem was in it's editing and narrative.