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Both as of Revenge of the Sith.
Setting is on the open fields of Lothal.

I swear to god the next duel that's on Lothal...

http://gifsec.com/wp-content/uploads/GIF/2014/06/Evil-Laughter-gif.gif

Fisto.

Shaak Ti takes this imo.

Originally posted by ILS
Fisto.

Shaak seems to have better feats.

You're right, stalemating one MagnaGuard for 30 seconds > Destroying two in seconds.

No, it's more like taking on 20+ Magnaguards by herself>Killing 2 in seconds.

And defeating them by virtue of their own inability to fight against non-lightsaber form techniques, not Shaak's own skill. Evidenced by the fact she only killed them in droves when she turned to unorthodox, direct methods with an electrostaff, whereas every time she had a saber in her hand she struggled to kill any. Luceno did a good job of explaining it to us.
-Labyrinth of Evil

Shaak Ti wins, though.

Right, you do realize that her objective was to get the Chancellor to safety right? not have a full out fight with Grevious and the Magna-Guards. She kept them at bay and retreated. and then she destroyed them when she stood her ground.

Also, Jar'Kai is unorthodox? they seemed to have had no problem pushing Fisto back.

I'm going with Shaak Ti, personally.

Yeah, it's a pretty desperate excuse, even if it does have some merit. It doesn't matter, though, because the miniseries battles are ridiculous anyway.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Right, you do realize that her objective was to get the Chancellor to safety right? not have a full out fight with Grevious and the Magna-Guards. She kept them at bay and retreated. and then she destroyed them when she stood her ground.

Also, Jar'Kai is unorthodox? they seemed to have had no problem pushing Fisto back.

I'm going with Shaak Ti, personally. watch?v=TYxu2JNs66o7:10-7:35 Ti is unable to kill a single MagnaGuard in this timeframe, in a simple 1v1 fight with nowhere to run and nobody interfering. In less than that time Fisto slaughtered two of them.

I didn't say Jar'kai was unorthodox, partly because Ti didn't actually kill anything when she wielded an electrostaff alongside her lightsaber. The only time she began rapidly killing MagnaGuards was when she just had a staff, and the manner in which she killed them lines up perfectly with the description of what MagnaGuards can't cope with properly in Labyrinth of Evil.

Description:
Result:
http://youtu.be/_bI9N533A98?t=4m50s
I count five MagnaGuards being taken out by simple, direct impalement. No lightsaber form present, and it matches up perfectly with LoE.

Ti struggles with single MagnaGuards and only gained ground against the army due to their own limitations.

GG

Originally posted by ILS
And defeating them by virtue of their own inability to fight against non-lightsaber form techniques, not Shaak's own skill. Evidenced by the fact she only killed them in droves when she turned to unorthodox, direct methods with an electrostaff, whereas every time she had a saber in her hand she struggled to kill any. Luceno did a good job of explaining it to us.
-Labyrinth of Evil

I find this kinda jarring, then what's the point of even training if defeat came often for those who were master combatants or master game players?

I mean losing to a cantina brawler and a noob dejarik player, you may aswell just stop what you're doing.

Edit: Wait...ok I get the combat one, but not really the dejarik one.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Yeah, it's a pretty desperate excuse, even if it does have some merit. It doesn't matter, though, because the miniseries battles are ridiculous anyway. It's not an excuse, it's an observation that explains why Shaak Ti can't kill one MagnaGuard with her lightsaber as fast as she killed six with an electrostaff. And calling the micro series ridiculous isn't an argument.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
I find this kinda jarring, then what's the point of even training if defeat came often for those who were master combatants or master game players?

I mean losing to a cantina brawler and a noob dejarik player, you may aswell just stop what you're doing.

Edit: Wait...ok I get the combat one, but not really the dejarik one. The point is, MagnaGuards are designed primarily to face lightsaber wielding opponents who utilise the seven lightsaber forms. When faced with something as simple and, to them, unpredictable, as being stabbed in the chest by a staff, they can't cope.

Those are just analogies, and they hold true. A master fighter can prepare all day for all the intricate techniques and strategies one could present going into a fight, but if they don't prepare for basic, fundamental principles of fighting they'll wind up on the losing end.

Originally posted by ILS
The point is, MagnaGuards are designed primarily to face lightsaber wielding opponents who utilise the seven lightsaber forms. When faced with something as simple and, to them, unpredictable, as being stabbed in the chest by a staff, they can't cope.

Those are just analogies, and they hold true. A master fighter can prepare all day for all the intricate techniques and strategies one could present going into a fight, but if they don't prepare for basic, fundamental principles of fighting they'll wind up on the losing end.

Ya I got the combat one, professional fighter/artist didn't see that, so they would all be fancy with it n such, so ya they could lose an actual fight.

It is also the case that it is not necessarily killing magna guards that determines the victor.

Kit was a Form 1 guy, using Shii Cho. Shaak blended forms 2 and 4 into her personal fighting style.

Form 1 does poorly in dueling, and Shaak's forms, particularly Makashi, enjoy an advantage on Shii Cho.

To be fair Fisto is kind of the exception to the rule of Shii-Cho being a blaster deflecting form, otherwise he wouldn't be slaughtering MagnaGuards, outsparring AotC Kenobi and being considered one of the best duelists in the Order. But while I didn't see that as an issue I did overlook that Makashi is a direct counter for Shii-Cho. Still, Fisto is obviously more skilled than her by a fair margin so it's hard to gauge just how much the form countering would come into play.

Shaak Ti certainly, greater cunning than anyone in the Order, greater Force feats and some of the best augmentation/stamina feats in the lore.

She can outsmart and outlast him if not just use her Force prowess, not to mention her style is perfectly designed for dueling.

When has her cunning actually let her beat a superior duelist in a versus board-like setting? Her stamina won't matter, at least not as much as, say, Kit's speed, which actually aids him in combat. What great Force feats does she have by RotS that would allow her to actually win a fight against Fisto?

The best you can argue is that Fisto is at an inherent disadvantage because of Makashi. Take someone as fast and skilled as Fisto and have them being a master of another lightsaber form and Ti loses for certain.

Against Grievous, she outsmarted him numerous times.

Oh and it helps a lot, he will eventually get tired and sloppy whereas she won't.

She is hardly lacking in speed herself, dodging omni-directional blaster fire and speedblitzing droids from considerable distances and not to mention being an Ataru master.

She Tutaminis'd a lightsaber blade, Force Healed blaster shots to the chest and TK'd droids to pieces.

Her lightsaber skill is only matched by the most elite swordsmen in the Jedi Order. She has even been shortlisted among Dooku, Yoda, Windu, Anakin, Kenobi and Billaba as the great swordmasters of the Jedi Order.

Billaba isn't one of the best of the order, lol.

She was originally a deadly Vaapad master and regardless I am sourcing the Revenge of the Sith novel.

Ancient-
Not in combat situations akin to the one she is in here. Kit won't be monologuing to her. Based on what? Fisto's stamina is great. He was capable of sparring AotC Kenobi for hours and ended up at such pace they would have looked like they were trying to slaughter each other to a non-Jedi. She's not lacking, no, just not as good as Kit. Being a master of Ataru isn't a speed feat. But failed to absorb the impact, which makes her tutaminis useless here and not that great of a power showing. Force Healing is irrelevant. TKing droids is roughly as good as this, certainly not enough to take an edge over Kit:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11115/111152734/3835979-fisto+tk+1.png
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11115/111152734/3835980-fisto+tk+2.png
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11115/111152734/3835981-fisto+tk+3.png
Credit to okayalright_44 for the scans.
She wasn't shortlisted, her skill was praised as being "great" and she was just used as an example alongside Dooku of a fighter who has a distinct attribute like elegance/grace, whereas Kenobi is comparatively a very plain fighter. I can easily name seven+ Jedi during Ti's era with better dueling skill than her.

Except for the part where she loses him not once, twice or thrice but four times, it is called cunning and monologuing isn't required because she has displayed her cunning against Starkiller.

Shaak Ti was augmenting herself for hours during Coruscant and along with Ki-Adi Mundi and Aayla Secura was fighting for what appeared to be days against a droid army.

Her Ataru mastery is actually a fantastic example of her speed and stamina. After the aforementioned marathon of fleeing from Grievous she went up against 20 Magnaguards and was able to take them all on simultaneously and stalemate them.

Her cunning yet again came into play when she played to the droids' weaknesses in combat during that engagement.

What speed feats does Fisto have that surpasses blaster fire from every direction twice and blitzing droids from a large distance. Not to mention later in life moving faster than Starkiller could adequately react to.

So we are just going to ignore the fact that it also happens to name all of the very best duelists in the Order during that era? ok then.

Putting the entire paragraph into context it is clearly meant to state that Kenobi is just as good as they are, not just compare forms. It is highlighting his strength compared to their's, his strength being simplicity itself.

You can list those better in your opinion, I however am not interest in opinions but sourcable factoids. Unless you have a statement calling Fisto a genuinely superior duelist to Shaak Ti then this is rather moot.

The fact Windu, a man who has already praised her combat prowess, elected her over every other Jedi available to him, to be his contingency plan for the Order should he fail speaks volumes.

Ancient-
So she's going to run away from Kit? And what great cunning did she show against SK other than managing to get an edge over him on a light-sided Felucia, as well as a favourable environment?
Like I said, Kit's stamina is serviceable enough for this not to even matter.
To be fair not all 20 MagnaGuards were capable of getting to her simultaneously, probably four, five, six at most. Still it's a decent feat of speed and agility.
Well, really, she obviously wasn't actively exploiting the weakness considering that after she found success with the staff, she picked her lightsaber back up and ended up getting overwhelmed by them again. And Kit has no such weakness outside of Makashi-Shii-Cho.
Well, by AotC alone he was faster than Obi-Wan Kenobi. Ten years prior to this point Kenobi was faster than Qui-Gon Jinn, who could disarm an opponent faster than one can draw their breath. So Fisto being noticeably faster than Kenobi ten years after this alone makes him superior to Ti who as you said, has dodged blaster bolts from many angles and blitzed "droids".

He has also baffled AotC Obi-Wan's gaze with his speed.

While it's not exclusively a speed feat, Kit's overall speed and unpredictability allowed him to overwhelm the reaction speed of Force sensitive JK droids - which are superhumanly fast to the point that even clone troopers can't see them as more than a blur, or hit them with blaster bolts, not to mention are precognitive and were also stated as being faster than Fisto himself at the time. It was also noted that Fisto's sense of timing and reaction speed is faster than conscious thought.

Kit ended up moving so fast whilst fighting these droids, he appeared to be everywhere at once.

Then fast forward to LoE, where Kit kills two MagnaGuards at such a pace that they can't even meet his blade with their staffs.

Kit is exceptionally fast among Jedi of his weight class, I must say. His thread speaks for itself:
http://www.comicvine.com/profile/whirlwind_33/blog/kit-fisto-respect-thread/97926/

Also, on the note of Shaak Ti moving faster than Starkiller can react to (which is false, he did react, just barely), not only was this feat in a light-side aligned environment which would weaken SK somewhat and boost Ti, but she had the advantage of a surprise attack and an advantage in environment which had SK off-balance initially. Even in this condition he blocked all of her blows until he got his balance back, and at that point he managed to engage in an extensive duel with her where part of his attention was focused towards attacking the sarlacc, instead of focusing in on Ti fully, while Ti had the sarlacc harassing him frequently. With these edges in mind, it's understandable that Ti got such a noticeable edge over him.

Not to mention, this is RotS Ti anyway.
They aren't all the very best duelists, though. Depa and Shaak aren't anyway. Drallig alone is confirmed as being more skilled than her as per the RotS Visual Dictionary and IIRC the Character Encyclopedia.
My source for Fisto being a better duelist than Ti is superior dueling feats alongside equal hype and reputation.

I could say the same for the fact he brought Fisto along with two others, not Ti, to fight Palpatine instead of Ti herself, and then Ti went as far as to say that Fisto is among the best in the order, which could be seen as an admission of inferiority. This combined with the fact that Ti wasn't even the best Jedi amongst the temple defence only proves that Ti's hype doesn't elevate her past where her feats would place her.

Actually her mission demanded she run away rather than engage Grievous directly, her mission was to secure the Chancellor in the Emergency Bunker.

In a prolonged engagement against a duelist on this level it certainly does.

She equated the strength of five simultaneously in a bladelock, She lost her lightsaber because they managed to get in one of the three grand total hits they accomplished against her.

Dodge omni-directional fire twice, I shouldn't need to express how impressive this is. Oh and she blitzed multiple droids from a distance before they fired.

Oh and Starkiller didn't react the whole first three times she landed blows on him with her lightsaber and then he through pure instinct managed to telekinetically block her skull-splitting riposte. She nearly speedblitzed him at the end of their fight.

Oh and it was only a 'light side' environment because she made it that way, Felucia was of the Dark Side, Shaak Ti was described as 'A lone beacon of light'.

In reality I assume you meant the Force, because Felucia is described as strong with the Force because of all the life there. Shaak Ti's Alter Environment and natural affinity as a Togruta allowed her to commune with the planet on a spiritual level.

So in reality it was a hindrance rather than a Force amp as you imply. Evidence of this comes from the fact that the planet is corrupted by the Dark Side to extreme degrees the next time Marek gets to the planet. Far more than Maris Brood could have possibly imbued it with.

This is actually an excellent display of Force power and presence for Ti, very few Jedi have such an effect on planets.

Oh and while this is Shaak Ti as of ROTS, she spent all the time between then and TFU to train Maris Brood and save her from Dark Side corruption.

Cin drallig is very contradictory in his numerous appearances, in the film he is seen dueling Vader rather adequately. In the novel he gets basically steamrolled. in the game he performs excellently. He is either extremely skilled or way past his prime.

Her feats against those she has faced are about as good as feats get against those opponents, you are assuming superior feats when really it's nothing more than absence of evidence.

Oh and her hype is superior actually, she is referred to repeatedly by both sourcebooks and characters as a legendary Jedi Master with extreme skill and prowess.

Her job was to guard the temple in the first place, at least before TCW Fives arc. Mace Windu chose her to lead the temple's defence despite Cin Drallig and Anakin's presence, unless I am remembering incorrectly it is mainly because of his view of her over the others there.

Let's not delve into Jedi modesty or Kenobi > Yoda & Windu or Yoda > GM Luke, by that logic.

Shaak Ti is clearly in the upper half of the High Council and has proven so against excellent opponents.

Her over-all Force feats point to greater Force power than Fisto, especially including The Force Unleashed. #KinetiteFTW

Ancient- Do you ever concede to anything? Like, ever?
I'm not sure how this correlates to her "cunning" helping her against Kit.
You expect the duel to be as prolonged as several hours? Because that's how long it would take for Fisto to tire out. Not seeing it personally.
This has nothing to do with the speed or agility argument. Nobody is expecting a duelist of Shaak's level to go untouched by MG's in that quantity, but then her getting hit by them isn't really much of a speed feat.
You don't, no, because I know how impressive it is. Quinlan Vos has displayed this level of speed on two occasions as well.
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111114474/3846603-vos+and+kenobi.png
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111114474/3846604-vos+and+kenobi2.png - Although in this instance he did receive help from Kenobi.
Second instance:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111114474/3846592-super+dodge.png

When Vos, someone who shares Ti's speed feats that you hold in high acclaim, fought in front of a clone trooper, he appeared as a blur who couldn't be tracked accurately.
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111114474/3846580-blur+speeds.png

Which is exactly how fast the JK droids were to the perception of clone troopers.
And yet for all their speed, this is how they met Kit's unorthodox offence:
Kit is on another level of speed based on this feat alone, I'm afraid, never mind the rest.
He most certainly did react at the start of the fight, just barely, like I said, and Ti surprise attacked him to boot:
Nothing even close to resembling a speedblitz here, and as for the end of the fight he indeed reacted to her, he just got tagged.
Now, as for your points about Felucia, it in fact wasn't a dark sided planet as per the novelisation, but rather a planet in balance, until Ti skewered the balance in favour of the light side with her continued presence there over the years.
So Ti was enjoying a fair bit of nexus energy on Felucia, meanwhile Galen would be weakened to some degree.
Jedi improve over time - this is irrefutable. She evidently spent a lot of time meditating on the Force and thus grew in strength, so her TFU showings aren't applicable to her RotS version, no matter what way you want to try and bend it.
All we have of him in the film is a short clip of Vader butchering him. He gets steamrolled in the novel. The RotS game is ambiguously canon at best and non-canon at average - we're talking about the same game that has Anakin dueling and defeating Mace Windu during the fight in Palpatine's office, amongst many other events that completely contradict the films and all other source material.

Absence of evidence? Kit Fisto evidently doesn't struggle as badly as Ti with MagnaGuards, and she has no feats of speed or skill to surpass Fisto absolutely dismantling JK droids, who match or surpass his own speed and precog, or being faster and more skilled noticeably than AotC Kenobi - a version of Kenobi with ten years more experience than his TPM counterpart, who was capable of approaching Qui-Gon Jinn's level of saber skill. Jinn's feats include humbling Anoon Bondara, who was considered unparalleled as a combatant by many during TPM, as well contending with Darth Maul past his own physical prime, and is accoladed as being one of the most skilled pure swordsmen in Jedi history.

And so is Fisto, by Shaak Ti herself, Obi-Wan Kenobi, Mace Windu and the Complete Visual Dictionary. Her hype is made inferior by Drallig's hype, to boot.
Cin Drallig wasn't a war general, and Anakin wasn't experienced - when all other capable swordsmen are either off doing important things like killing Sith Lords or commanding forces, it only stands to reason that Shaak Ti be placed in charge of the temple's defences, since she's a war general. This doesn't in any way correlate to lightsaber skill except in the very loosest sense.
I felt it was worth bringing up, is all.
Hmm... let's see, the following duelists on the council are all better than Shaak Ti:
Anakin, Kenobi, Windu, Yoda, Fisto, Koon, Kolar, Saesee Tiin, Ki-Adi-Mundi, potentially Depa Billaba, and, depending on how you view his fight with TCW Grievous, Eeth Koth. She's better than Yarael Poof, Oppo Rancisis and Yaddle.

Greater? Perhaps. Overwhelming or enough to even tilt the fight towards her favour? Not a chance. Not by RotS anyway.

Kit is substantially faster, substantially more skilled, substantially less wanked, and has comparable Force power. Time to admit Ti's inferiority.

Well this was a losing debate anyway because everyone lowballs ROTS Ti all the time. Infact this debate died as soon as ROTS was used as a prefix.
TFU Shaak Ti is the only display of Ti we have where she goes all out and actually stands in the fight.i

Actually, Ti is just wanked beyond all belief.

Lol sure she is.

Originally posted by ILS
All we have of him in the film is a short clip of Vader butchering him. He gets steamrolled in the novel. The RotS game is ambiguously canon at best and non-canon at average - we're talking about the same game that has Anakin dueling and defeating Mace Windu during the fight in Palpatine's office, amongst many other events that completely contradict the films and all other source material.

Well we never really see Cin die, all we see in the holo is him trading a few blows against Anakin before it cuts away.

Ti wins. Mostly to spite ILS tho.

Good fight, atm not sure who wins.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Ti wins. Mostly to spite ILS tho. *winning*

Originally posted by Stigma
not sure who wins.

Shaak Ti wins in my opinion.

In addition to taking all the magnaguard- and any deficiency they have against non-sabers is *more* than made up for in number- according to TFU she confronted, survived, and escaped Vader during the temple assault.

I think she's got skill and force power on him.




Oh, definitely more than 4. Remember they had long pikes, increasing the number that could attack.

Q99 which source or scene is that?

To be honest Shaak Ti really didn't do a good job against the numbers when you get meticulous with the video. At the start she literally runs away from them when their numbers build around her, and wasn't comfortable fighting four at once. Every time she was surrounded by them she was disarmed and hit by them several times, or at the very end she briefly engages four and ends up blade locked by all of them, which would have meant defeat had they MGs not left.

That isn't necessarily a bad thing because of their sheer numbers, but to claim being overwhelmed by them is a feat that elevates her above Fisto who is just obviously more capable than her is just being ignorant of what we actually, visibly see Shaak doing.

I'm not even lowballing. Everything I'm saying is backed up by what is on-screen, and evident from source material regarding both Ti and the opponents she has faced. Whether one wants to acknowledge that is up to them. I'm not claiming to be objectively correct either, but it's obvious Ti doesn't have much of a case being made for her.

And "surviving" against Vader also doesn't elevate her above Kit, especially when you consider what happened to Drallig, who is confirmed to be Ti's superior. Not only would Kit provide more of a challenge than just surviving and running away from Vader, but Ti would have been butchered the same as Drallig had she stayed in that situation for longer than she had.

I think asserting that Fisto would have done worse against Vader than Cin Drallig is where we draw the line.

Time to stop the Ti highballing, methinks. She can be a good character without being an especially good duelist.

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/58067345.jpg

Argument backed by evidence > Meme

What evidence?

Citations to various novels and sourcebooks, perhaps?

And those citations and various novels state that Fisto is above Shaak Ti or it is just your impression?

Originally posted by Arhael
And those citations and various novels state that Fisto is above Shaak Ti or it is just your impression? Originally posted by ILS
And those citations and various novels state that Shaak Ti is above Fisto or it is just your impression?

In other words no evidence.

Depends on how you choose to use the word "evidence". I'm getting the impression from you that you believe any and all arguments are subjective speculation until we get an out-of-universe declaration from creators that X > Y in order to believe that X > Y.

Problem is that we don't need that to work out that X > Y, hence why boards like this have been going strong for like over a decade now. All we need to do is compare their combat ability and, would you look at that, that's exactly what's been done in this thread. Fisto won.

You can't complain that I'm lacking evidence when nobody has posted equivalent "evidence" for Ti, much less even presented an argument for her.

GG

I think that Shaak Ti is poorly represented in sources, if she is indeed among the best of her time.

She impressed me in TFU content though, nice depiction.

Originally posted by ILS
Depends on how you choose to use the word "evidence". I'm getting the impression from you that you believe any and all arguments are subjective speculation until we get an out-of-universe declaration from creators that X > Y in order to believe that X > Y.

Problem is that we don't need that to work out that X > Y, hence why boards like this have been going strong for like over a decade now. All we need to do is compare their combat ability and, would you look at that, that's exactly what's been done in this thread. Fisto won.

You can't complain that I'm lacking evidence when nobody has posted equivalent "evidence" for Ti, much less even presented an argument for her.

GG

Fisto won? Nearly all people gave it to Shaak Ti here. Her taking on 20+ magnaguards is an evidence enough. Fisto never did anything even remotely as impressive.

Originally posted by Arhael
Fisto won? Nearly all people gave it to Shaak Ti here. Her taking on 20+ magnaguards is an evidence enough. Fisto never did anything even remotely as impressive. Bandwagon fallacy. I already debunked that argument extensively in prior posts. Simply taking the number of MagnaGuards and Shaak Ti's presence near them and acting like she actually did well doesn't really cut it. It's like putting Fisto in front of 30,000 droids and saying he "held his own against an entire army" when really he ended up running away and overwhelmed.

Originally posted by ILS
Bandwagon fallacy. I already debunked that argument extensively in prior posts. Simply taking the number of MagnaGuards and Shaak Ti's presence near them and acting like she actually did well doesn't really cut it. It's like putting Fisto in front of 30,000 droids and saying he "held his own against an entire army" when really he ended up running away and overwhelmed.
You did not debunk. You came up with an excuse. Magnaguards wield saber stuff. There is no reason to assume they can't defend against it.

And I call you on double standards:

Numbers and time matter to you, when it suits you.

Originally posted by Arhael
You did not debunk. You came up with an excuse. Magnaguards wield saber stuff.

Electrostaffs not saber. :P

Originally posted by ILS
Bandwagon fallacy. I already debunked that argument extensively in prior posts.

No, you posted mitigating factors. Even with those factors it easily surpasses Fisto's best feats.




The number she destroyed- and that she destroyed several of them sans weapons- is very impressive.

Originally posted by Arhael
You did not debunk. You came up with an excuse. Magnaguards wield saber stuff. There is no reason to assume they can't defend against it.

And I call you on double standards:

Numbers and time matter to you, when it suits you. An excuse... which is supported by source material perfectly. Please try not to simplify my argument to "MagnaGuards can't fight staffs lul not tru" for the sake of appeasing your inner Shaak Ti fan.

Numbers and time have never stopped mattering to me. I'm not sure what you're talking about.
Originally posted by Q99
No, you posted mitigating factors. Even with those factors it easily surpasses Fisto's best feats.

The number she destroyed- and that she destroyed several of them sans weapons- is very impressive. ..so even though MagnaGuards are specifically weak against and lack the programming to properly defend against the type of assault Ti briefly put out, those factors aren't enough to show you why the feat has little to do with Ti's skill? We're not only conveniently ignoring both the bulk of my argument from previous pages, but also the several times Shaak Ti has failed to kill MagnaGuards with her lightsaber, even in a direct 1v1?

We're going to ignore every circumstance regarding the feat, ignore the fact she's objectively inferior to Cin Drallig, and essentially ignore anything that could be considered of detriment to her supposed skill, and just run with the "but she fought 20 MagnaGuards tho1!!!1!" routine?

Absolute. Nonsense.

Tell you what guys, try picking apart my posts from previous pages - all of them, in fact - and I'll continue this debate. I'm not letting you guys nitpick the tiny aspects of this argument which suit your own debating preference when I've already addressed it in it's entirety once. There's simply no need for me to even reply to people at this point, Shaak lost.

Originally posted by ILS
To be honest Shaak Ti really didn't do a good job against the numbers when you get meticulous with the video.


All that matters is that both her and Fisto can easily kick Grievous's butt.

Ya know, now that I think about it. That's kinda an oversight on Grevious with his Magnaguards, it's not like a huge oversight mind you considering that a group of them were able to kill Palps Red Guard(abit still they did hold their own against them and killed at least one). But I feel it's something Grevious should have taken notice of.

Also on an unrelated note, found a feat in LoE where some Red Guards pretty much blitz a group of battle droids.

ILS' arguments are pretty good, imo. He's changed my mind on the subject.

Originally posted by |King Joker|
ILS' arguments are pretty good, imo. He's changed my mind on the subject. Gooood... goooooood....

Problem with Magnaguards is that their skill can vary a lot. Even Anakin and Kenobi were shown to take quite a while to kill some Magnaguards in RotS. What is clear for sure is that facing two opponents is more than twice harder. Facing 3-4 is nearly impossible. Facing 30 would require godly miracle to surive even for a few seconds.

As a general rule, you can gauge a MagnaGuard's level of ability by their attire, color, and age.

The ones Kenobi fought were named, I think.

Where does Shaak Ti battling and escaping Darth Vader come from? I've seen people mention this nonsense several times and say it is from TFU. However, I ow the game and saw nothing stating such. Not even in the databank.

Anyway, Fisto should win this. His performance against Greivous was great unlike Ti's two attempts.

Fated-
Pulling her lightsaber through two MangaGuards with TK ---------------------------------- The point I was making.
watch?v=TYxu2JNs66o 7:10

There is no way to excuse the fact that she was in single combat with that MagnaGuard, and was unable to kill it with her lightsaber. What's more, the "defending the Chancellor" excuse doesn't work here because not only was Palpatine being held by a third Jedi, but Ti and the ugly guy were only contending with one MagnaGuard each, which were directing all of their attention on them. There is no way to weasel out of this.
"When she gets serious" LOL when wasn't she serious? Go to 8:12 in the video above, she has extensive exchanges with one MagnaGuard where she isn't fighting off the backfoot and is standing in front of it fighting it - and she doesn't kill it very quickly at all. This only adds to my point. I'm not saying she was fully dedicated to fighting the MagnaGuards all the time, but when she was, she wasn't killing them quickly with her lightsaber.
When has Anakin stalemated a single MangaGuard for twenty seconds? He's dismantled four in around the same time Darth Maul has, which is around the same time Fisto took down two.

Again, I said earlier that I'm not basing this entirely off of how they perform against MGs. But, there is a noticeable disparity in how they perform against a common enemy, which lends credence to the idea that Fisto > Shaak Ti.
You're once again missing the point entirely. It wasn't a showing of lightsaber skill due to the absence of lightsaber form being used. If Ti could just impale Fisto using a method of offensive he has no training or defence against, then sure, she could do that - but she doesn't have that. She only had it against the MGs, as per LoE.

It's not about the weapon. It's about how she went about using it. She probably could have implemented similar tactics with her lightsaber while disregarding Form, but then she didn't, because as we see she's incapable of killing them as rapidly with her use of Ataru and Makashi as she can with her blunt, direct staff tactics.
...that's nice, I guess. I wasn't disputing any of that. I was just saying that Fisto isn't limited by Shii-Cho. Although Ti or Depa being peers of Dooku, Mace or Anakin is lolworthy.
To be fair the MGs stopped fighting immediately after initiating that blade lock, so there's no proof she would have held them all off. Her Force speed is inferior to Kit's, as I've shown, and her TK isn't enough to bridge the disparity in dueling skill. Not for majority of the time, anyway.

Well let's not be misleading her - Grievous f*cked her up. So I fail to see your logic.

You're saying that Shaak Ti is better than Fisto because she got wrecked by Grievous in negative circumstances, while Fisto defeated Grievous with positive circumstances? That's like saying a swimmer who came last because of an injury is better than the guy who won on steroids. Not how it works I'm afraid. She needs superior feats, not a shittier setting to produce feats.
Did.. you read the post I quoted? The dark side was "weakened" in that area and Galen had trouble "awakening" it. That alone is proof enough.
.....like I said already, I thought it was worth noting.
The only person speculating is you. I backed up my claim that she was, at that point, f*cked, with the fact that when surrounded in similar situations she was disarmed and repeatedly stunned by the MGs. Nothing to suggest she would fair any better after they have her cornered and blade locked.
What you're saying ------------------------- the point, once again. She was overwhelmed by them, twice. This isn't a feat of superiority over Kit. Kit blitzing two MagnaGuards in far less less time than it takes for Shaak to kill one is evidence for him being superior.

Anakin has killed four in the same timeframe as Darth Maul. I'm not sure where you're finding inconsistency. It's just people like Shaak and padawan Ahsoka who find MagnaGuards troubling, really.
Rofl. Running away from Anakin Skywalker is a top 10 feat in your view? Nice.
Being stated as being her objective superior in two sourcebooks is all I need. Have you got the quote that details Ti's fight with Vader? I'd be interested in seeing it.
Shaak Ti isn't superior to a duelist who has curbstomped an earlier version of Quinlan Vos, a duelist who has or outdueled and stunned the perceptions of AotC Kenobi + wrecked formidable opponents like MGs and JK droids, or a duelist who has sparred evenly with Mace Windu without having his form picked apart (like duelists like Quinlan Vos have).

The two attempts where she was exhausted, in one case because of days of fighting and in the other case having ran a marathon whilst protecting the Chancellor? Sure we can ignore that context.

Fisto on the other hand was 100% and this was against a much less impressive General Grievous. His OCW version was almost a tier above TCW's due to feats and the fact he was debuting as a character, meaning the Jedi were made to do the job for him.

Skilled Jedi can use the force to replenish themselves almost instantly as seen with Dooku in RotS. Regardless, in the first duel she had the help of several other Jedi. That should more than make up for her exhaustion.

Now admittedly, this is merely abc logic and really isn't enough proof to put Fisto above Ti.

Originally posted by AncientPower
The two attempts where she was exhausted, in one case because of days of fighting and in the other case having ran a marathon whilst protecting the Chancellor? Sure we can ignore that context.

Fisto on the other hand was 100% and this was against a much less impressive General Grievous. His OCW version was almost a tier above TCW's due to feats and the fact he was debuting as a character, meaning the Jedi were made to do the job for him. Like Fated, you're missing the point.

Ti was wrecked by Grievous twice. She would have done better without fatigue but to what degree is speculative. Based on her other feats, not much better.

Fisto did very well against a weaker Grievous with positive circumstances. Correct. How is this a slight against Kit? Doing well because something is skewered in his favour doesn't detriment him, just like Ti getting wrecked under bad circumstances doesn't necessarily detriment her.

Comparing their feats outside of those two fights will determine who is more skilled (Fisto tbh).

Originally posted by ares834
Skilled Jedi can use the force to replenish themselves almost instantly as seen with Dooku in RotS. Regardless, in the first duel she had the help of several other Jedi. That should more than make up for her exhaustion.

Now admittedly, this is merely abc logic and really isn't enough proof to put Fisto above Ti. But it's a starting point. This is also true. The fatigue card is overplayed somewhat.

She ran and Force jumped constantly across the skyline of the senate district before fighting 20 Magnaguard simultaneously and THEN Grievous defeated her. Overplayed? please.

http://media.tumblr.com/8d9049a46959602f230a70a6e8d2b2ef/tumblr_inline_nd92adLGbr1sf69qp.gif

Originally posted by ares834
Where does Shaak Ti battling and escaping Darth Vader come from? I've seen people mention this nonsense several times and say it is from TFU. However, I ow the game and saw nothing stating such. Not even in the databank.


This is true....and no Sourcebook I have on it, says that she ever dueled Anakin. I'm thinking it's just made up, Wookiee has been known to have errors on it.

Unless there's a source I'm missing. But it doesn't really add up, when you take into account other sources.

Apparently it's in TFU databank entry for Shaak Ti. Someone with the game should take a look to verify it's existence.

Like I said, I own the game and didnt see it mentioned in the databank (its also on YouTube for those who want to see for themselves). Maybe it's in someone else's rather than Ti's?

Maybe it's in Vader's or Brood's...?

Originally posted by ares834
Skilled Jedi can use the force to replenish themselves almost instantly as seen with Dooku in RotS. Regardless, in the first duel she had the help of several other Jedi. That should more than make up for her exhaustion.




Not really. Dooku's an exceptional Force User, and even then him tiring was clearly a factor in that fight.

Now when being not just tired but "exhausted" is specifically mentioned as a factor in both of Shaak Ti's losses to Grievous, it can't just be ignored. Especially when they were both long drawn out fights that exhausted her.

Originally posted by ILS
Fated-
Pulling her lightsaber through two MangaGuards with TK ---------------------------------- The point I was making.

You're saying she didn't kill any of them with her lightsaber, she did. I was correcting you.



You know, another factor that would come into play, would be that she is unfamiliar with the Magna-Guards, so she was being wary, gauging their skill and then butchered them all with easy. Just my two cents, but not fact.

The fact remains, when she actually felt like it, she destroyed the magna-guards with absolute ease - with her saber. or was there some sort of unorthodoxy in her moves that caught the Magna-Guards off guard?





Because she's getting the hell out dodge? they're in a tram-station with active trams passing and going, she's blocking it's strikes and simultaneously maneuvering herself out of that dangerous spot. and once she "get's serious" she butchers the magna-guards.



On Naboo, when Grevious suffers defeat at the hands of the Gungans. he doesn't even destroy any of the magna-guards there. though, he was fighting dooku so there's that too.



That is a really dumb point. Nahdar Vebb sliced two magna-guards within 5-7 seconds. so what? does that put him above Shaak Ti? i mean if we're going to compare how they perform against a common enemy then, wouldn't that be the case?

that's a pretty flawed excuse.



So, precise strikes that ended them with a single blow, isn't a show of Makashi? deadly accuracy?



Except when she butchered two of them right? and when she kept them all at bay with her saber and then again with the staff and saber. I don't know about you, but hitting them with pin-point accuracy is a show of Makashi to me.



Yeah? well, saying that Ti admitted inferiority based on your own deduction would be even more "lolworthy"

Fact remains, she and depa are listed as "great swordbeings" and are later counted amongs the likes of Dooku, Anakin and Mace. But if you want to continue going against the very words of the book, then far be it from to stop you.


And? these are eight metal machines with superior strength, she locked with them all, you're really just making excuses to make ti look like a pleb here if you think that they didn't put any of their strength into the deadlock. really? I You mean aside from being a blur? and moving faster than a ship that took two minutes to get to its destination while it took her a mere 30 seconds? lets not forget that she was hurt by electro staff(which were able to take down Clone troopers by the way)


Alright, tone down the sass, every other time i mentioned her fight with grevious i stated that she contended with him "briefly" don't exaggerate my one **** up.

The fact is, she and the others were not at 100%, not Aayla, not K'kruhk, not Ki-Adi and not Shaak Ti. So, lets "not be misleading here" he only beat them because he had every advantage in the book, they were exhausted, he had them cornered and they had been fighting prior to the battle with grevious.



No, i'm saying that Shaak Ti lost to a fully healthy Grevious who had every advantage imaginable, and was the second Jedi to last longer than a second against him - whilst tired. I believe that Shaak Ti would win against grevious in a one on one if she was at 100%.

Point being, it's obvious that Fisto enjoyed several advantages during that fight, shii-cho, Grevious's arrogance, injury and clumsiness with his new limbs. The doctor droid even explicitly states that he shouldn't fight, yet he fought and lost because of it.



She has them



Ah, so he had to call on the darkness of Felucia to combat shaak ti? not use his own skill?

I fail to see how that would hinder his ability to draw on the dark-side. it's not as if someone was actively suppressing his force ability, it's only Shaak Ti keeping the dark side away.


Yeah, just don't toss around your own speculation, as fact.



except that she was keeping several of the guards at bay. or did you not watch that part of the video? Let's talk about Fisto, he was unable to handle 3 magna-guards and had to retreat while Shaak took on an great number of them. So....? where was his speed there?


Except Kit couldn't handle 3 magna-guards and his apprentice took them down in 5-7 seconds with ease. So what does that say? because of this Nahdar>Kit and Shaak Ti?



https://38.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9fbufwsqn1qc882co2_250.gif

Right, Eeth Koth, Kit, Obi-Wan, Anakin and Gallia never had any trouble with Magna-Guards right? except for when Koth was forced on the defensive, Obi stalemated a magna guard for twenty seconds, anakin for 15-20, Fisto didn't even blitz the magna guards in grevious' lair and Gallia was having trouble with them in the comic where she died. yup, only Ahsoka and Shaak ti, no one else.



yeah right? after she clashed with him and while her supposed "superior" died with a simple strike and as did many others. wow, much hilarious, very lols, so funny.


Yeah? give me the quotes, i'd like to see those quotes. if it's just "the best swordsmen in the temple" or "the greatest swordsmen anakin fought" I will laugh, hard.

Fact is, no feats support this. so until further news on Drallig appears. Shaak Ti>Drallig.



Except quotes call her a formidable fighter, a duelist that only the best of the order could beat, a great sword being counted amongst the greats and she is "revered" by the Jedi. She's continuously called a master of Ataru and Makashi, and is stated to be one of the most accomplished jedi in lightsaber combat, she is stated to have Legendary strength in the force. even Mace praised her at one point calling her deadly.

fact is, as of ROTS shaak ti is strong and powerful as well as an accomplished duelist. Her TFU incarnation is even more so. Shaak Ti wins.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
yeah right? after she clashed with him

Where is this stated?

Fated-
I was clearly not referring to her killing two of them with saber throw from behind, which bears no relevance to lightsaber combat, with your hands, using the forms. It's a moot point.
A disadvantage shared by both the MagnaGuards and every other Jedi who has fought them? They use the seven forms - they can't be that unfamiliar anyway.
Ah, good, this will be useful for later on when you get upset at me for presenting my opinion on Ti's statement.
Correction - she killed them with her staff, not her saber. The only saber kills she achieved were when she killed two with saber throw, which we both know is irrelevant, and when she killed one after an extensive period of dueling. The ones she killed with her staff died due to their own inability, as per LoE.
She wasn't dodging anything when they weren't in immediate threat of being hit, and when she was fighting in such areas for considerable periods of time she failed to kill anything without a lot of bother.
Hmm.. I dunno, I mean Dooku standing right in front of Anakin might have been enough of a distraction for Anakin not to defeat the MagnaGuards, being his near-equal and all. Not sure tho tbh.
It was actually like four IIRC. And I guess it does, I mean it's a pretty solid feat. Good for Nahdar

And like I've said, Fisto has other displays to put him above Shaak anyway.
I don't remember Makashi simply disregarding elegance or the opponents defence, taking to the air, and impaling the opponent bluntly and directly. Maybe you could tell me about that tho tbh?
Could you show me Shaak Ti butchering two MagnaGuards with her lightsaber please, in the manner you're describing? Haven't seen it personally.
Not really. The quote is up for interpretation. Shaak Ti being within two tiers of Anakin, Mace or Dooku isn't.
Rofl. The quote wasn't shortlisting the most skilled beings in the Order.
I didn't dispute that she locked them, I just question if she'd be able to keep it up for longer than it lasted.

Right.. because being a blur supersedes Kit's showings, or any Jedi worth half their salt

Ship feat isn't even relevant to combat or noteworthy.

I'm sure Kit's lightsaber will be doing a better job.
Are you upset, Fated?
Well, outside of their fatigue, Grievous inherently has every other advantage he brought to that fight over them, so it's questionable if he couldn't have beaten them all fresh. Three of them weren't noteworthy duelists at all, one struggles with Grievous' henchmen, and the strongest member of the team's most prominent feat is against Grievous himself, so outside of that he doesn't have much to fall back on. Rid the team of the weaker members, send Shaak flying again, and then finish by defeating Mundi again? Not implausible.

And let's not pretend being on the larger side of a 5v1 isn't a pretty absurd advantage to have over someone, despite that someone standing in the middle of all of said 5 and outfighting them simultaneously.
Grievous would absolutely annihilate Shaak Ti by herself. The fact she couldn't defeat him with four Jedi aiding her doesn't lend credence to the claim she could do it herself.
Lol. Grievous' "arrogance" wasn't preventing him from fighting as best he could, and he wasn't any clumsier due to having new limbs. Shii-Cho and fatigue were the main advantages.

And nobody denied this. Not sure why you're still banging on about it tbh.
I'd love to hear or preferably see them.
That's generally how Force Augmentation works, yeah.

On neutral ground, the Force's alignment is balanced between both sides of the spectrum, allowing Force Users of any alignment to draw on the Force as an energy source as freely as the environment allows.

On Felucia the dark side was weak while the light was stronger.
Care to quote the part in this thread where I say any of my opinions are fact? Also, the useful part from earlier comes in here
She kept them at bay for a bit, sure, but that's all she did outside of the staff portion of the fight. Not sure why briefly holding off fourish MagnaGuards supersedes Kit's relatively extensive and impressive track record.

Ah.. see we had this issue with Anakin fighting MagnaGuards with another near-equal duelist present (Dooku). Now I'm not sure, tbh, but I think maybe Grievous being there might have been why Fisto wasn't comfortable taking on three MagnaGuards. Call me nuts here, but perhaps Fisto didn't want to fight the three Elites in addition to Grievous, due to Grievous or the trio separately being something of a challenge. Tbh?
Nahdar > Shaak Ti tbh
Being the temple's finest swordmaster would elevate her above Ti, yes. I can't see how that is funny though. Also, Ti not even being mentioned whilst Drallig was directly mentioned as being someone of considerable skill, yet no challenge to Anakin, is telling of her presence being insignificant.
http://i.imgur.com/FUQk0ko.png http://i.imgur.com/gBDrLu3.png Part 2 coming soon.

Koth was fighting numerous MagnaGuards, not one, not to mention Grievous at the same time, lol. Kit again had Grievous present when facing the MGs. Obi-Wan's use of Soresu prevents him from hastily defeating MagnaGuards, and again, he fought more of them than Ti and did better than her. Anakin killed four in less time than it took Ti to kill one. Not sure on Gallia though she would be inferior to Kit as well regardless. Although she was taking down a few MGs in Obsession, so that hurts your case

Just Ahsoka and Shaak I'm afraid.
Did you forget to address the part where I said that running away from Anakin prevents Ti from being a top 10 duelist within the Order?
Lmfao.

Kit is among the best in the Order. She wasn't shortlisted in that quote. Revered, but not in terms of lightsaber skill, and that accolade would prove nothing relating to this discussion anyway, being a master of lightsaber forms is irrelevant to practical skill, Kit also has "one of the most" accolades, and having "legendary" strength in the Force is ambiguous at best. Mace has also praised Kit pretty extensively, so fail to see your point there.

I agree with everything apart from those three dreadful words at the end.

Ahsoka's performance against the three (or four?) MagnaGuards is pretty impressive, given she became a Padawan like a day earlier.

Indeed^

Ahsoka did as well as Shaak Ti did against a common opponent a day after becoming a padawan. Shaak Ti's looking pretty dope guys.

Originally posted by ILS

Being the temple's finest swordmaster would elevate her above Ti, yes. I can't see how that is funny though. Also, Ti not even being mentioned whilst Drallig was directly mentioned as being someone of considerable skill, yet no challenge to Anakin, is telling of her presence being insignificant.
http://i.imgur.com/FUQk0ko.png http://i.imgur.com/gBDrLu3.png Part 2 coming soon.

Also Cin was noted a priority threat for elimination, something which Ti doesn't have, along with the statements of Dooku and it's noted that few can match a Battlemaster's skill with a lightsaber.



Ontop of that, Cin being personally trained by Yoda in lightsaber combat and him being noted as one of top swordsman in the Jedi Order.

So really this whole Anakin dueling Ti thing sounds far fetched, because I've looked at TFU databank, it says nothing on it. I looked through TFU campaign guide, says nothing on that, I've looked through my other sources involving Ti...and nothing on that.

So it doesn't add up, that Ti would survive an encounter with Anakin when Cin couldn't. On an interesting note though, as per the ROTS novel, Cin was also dealing with Clone Troopers firing upon him and some younglings as he was fighting Anakin.

Yep, it was an error, so she never dueled Anakin, it's been removed from her page. I always thought it was odd considering.

Didn't Anakin choke out one of them?

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Yep, it was an error, so she never dueled Anakin, it's been removed from her page. I always thought it was odd considering. So what you're saying is... one of Shaak Ti's best dueling feats, that was shit anyway, that has been lauded in both versus series youtube videos and boards as the hottest shit since Agen Kolar nearly soloing Sidious... is fan-fiction?

Take a good hard look at yourselves, Shaak Ti fans. This is an important day for you. It's an opportunity for you to cover your losses, accept inferiority, and move onto a less shitty Togruta like Ahsoka who might turn into a good duelist when she gets a bit older. Until then you aren't really cooking with fire with this MagnaGuard business.

Originally posted by ILS
So what you're saying is... one of Shaak Ti's best dueling feats, that was shit anyway, that has been lauded in both versus series youtube videos and boards as the hottest shit since Agen Kolar nearly soloing Sidious... is fan-fiction?

Take a good hard look at yourselves, Shaak Ti fans. This is an important day for you. It's an opportunity for you to cover your losses, accept inferiority, and move onto a less shitty Togruta like Ahsoka who might turn into a good duelist when she gets a bit older. Until then you aren't really cooking with fire with this MagnaGuard business.

Pretty much yeah, I guess what that whole thing stems from is this quote..



Which turned into her dueling and actually stunning him.

Tbh when I first saw it, it literally made 0 sense to me as to why she could actually duel him long enough to stun him and get away, when Cin Drallig couldn't being her superior.

Shaak Ti probably sacrificed all of the padawans as frontline fodder against Vader, she's good at killing padawans.

LOL

Originally posted by carthage
Didn't Anakin choke out one of them? http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130210221819/starwars/images/e/e6/CinDrallig.png

wow...

Oh so about Shaak not being a "priority target"...

She was, Anakin interrogated Jurrok about her location, he was obviously gunning for her as well as Drallig.

Oh yeah, how did I miss this. awesome find Sel

I grow tired of this feminist Shaak Ti shit. Fisto wins and she makes him a sandwich.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I grow tired of this feminist Shaak Ti shit. Fisto wins and she makes him a sandwich.
http://cdn.halloftheblackdragon.com/reel/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/angry-feminist.jpg

Is the Xtasy-ILS debate still ongoing or did it just... stop?

I don't think I care enough to continue it... and I don't see us reaching a conclusion anytime soon either just skimming the response.

Conclusions are rarely reached on KMC nowadays. Meh nice debating with you.

I'll be using these sources in the future, thank you Fated and very well done.

Originally posted by Selenial
Oh so about Shaak not being a "priority target"...

She was, Anakin interrogated Jurrok about her location, he was obviously gunning for her as well as Drallig.

Or the fact, Ti pretty much told him beforehand, that he was useless going with Mace Windu when he wanted to go and she flat out told him that..

"Anakin why? The Masters are the best of the Order. What could you possibly do?"

Anakin asking Jurrok about her location, could mean he was pissed at her or anything really. Elsewhere it is never noted that Ti was any threat to Anakin, like in no other book...so we can't really take one question and put it as such when actual source evidence says that Cin was the best swordmaster in the Temple at the time and was marked as a threat.

Cin may well have greater technical proficiency but Ti is much more powerful in the Force, a realm in which she specailised.

Originally posted by AncientPower
I'll be using these sources in the future, thank you Fated and very well done.

Are you making a Ti respect thread? I've got a few scans andquotes if you'd need em

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I grow tired of this feminist Shaak Ti shit. Fisto wins and she makes him a sandwich.

Look, turning Fisto into a sandwich and eating him is a bit brutal even for Ti, don't you think?

Or do you mean she makes him make a sandwich for her...?

Ti dies.

Originally posted by ILS
Take a good hard look at yourselves, Shaak Ti fans. This is an important day for you. It's an opportunity for you to cover your losses, accept inferiority, and move onto a less shitty Togruta like Ahsoka who might turn into a good duelist when she gets a bit older. Until then you aren't really cooking with fire with this MagnaGuard business. It's amazing how KingJoker took this advice straight to the bank, even after all these years.

Originally posted by ILS
It's amazing how KingJoker took this advice straight to the bank, even after all these years. Well, it was good advice.

Is this TFU Shaak or RotS Shaak?

Originally posted by |King Joker|
Both as of Revenge of the Sith.
Setting is on the open fields of Lothal.

Would go with Fisto in a close fight then.

ti dies

shaak ti wins. better feats, better force abilities and force concentration, more speed, more strength, more resilience. i do understand the fisto fans however. i used to be one myself, but i know ti is simply on another level in terms of outright skill and intensity. while fisto's level is ambiguous with individuals like mundi, kenobi and koon, shaak ti i feel can potentially outclass even them with her skillset. don't see how she's cin drallig's inferior, but whatever. i have her estimated as being the third most powerful jedi as of 19bby.

Obi-Wan and Anakin are vastly more capable than Ti.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Obi-Wan and Anakin are vastly more capable than Ti.


I suppose she could be number 5, but that's debatable, and the space between 4(Obi-Wan) and 5(whoever from the Council) should be noticeable.