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Peak Ulic and Dynasty of Evil Bane.

Neutral setting.

No amp/prep time.

Who wins?

Ulic.

Bane

Ulic

Better duelist, faster, more skilled.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Bane

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Bane

Prove it

Not sure why you're going for Ulic. He has less going for him as Bane does and many of the "arguments" you've used against Bane apply to him as well.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Not sure why you're going for Ulic. He has less going for him as Bane does and many of the "arguments" you've used against Bane apply to him as well.

He was the only guy to hold his own against Exar Kun, Bane has beaten no one on Exar's or even fought anyone on his level. None of Bane's force attacks are powerful enough to harm him, and he's faster than him as well.

And how is Exar any greater than Bane as well? His only saber feats are beating essentially featless people like Vodo and Sylvar, killing fodder guards and stalemating Ulic. If you followed your own standards you'd be backing Bane here.

Originally posted by Nephthys
And how is Exar any greater than Bane as well? His only saber feats are beating essentially featless people like Vodo and Sylvar, killing fodder guards and stalemating Ulic. If you followed your own standards you'd be backing Bane here.

Nope. Ulic has beaten back a nexus amped Warb Null who was kicking the asses of Tott Doneeta and Cay at once, fought while deprived of the force against a Jedi he one shot him basically while Bane got stomped by weakling Sirak and only beat Kas'im by using nexus energy. Bane needed nexuses to beat his opponents, Ulic beat his opponents in spite of being hindered. None of Bane's force attacks will penetrate his shields either, he can tank and knock back a nexus amped Ommin's darkside attacks, tank blaster bolts that can penetrate ships.

Bane's out of his depth as usual

Tott, Cay and Null are also featless. You're just building up your castle on equally shaky sand here. Sirak and Kas'im also beat people, you just don't care because they're featless. But suddenly Tott and Cay are worth something. Right. And he one shot who? All of Banes opponents had the same amps or greater ones to call upon. And Ulic has no offense to challenge Bane either. Though I'd argue against Ulic blocking Bane's lightning and TK so easily.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Tott, Cay and Null are also featless. You're just building up your castle on equally shaky sand here. And he one shot who? All of Banes opponents had the same amps or greater ones to call upon. And Ulic has no offense to challenge Bane either. Though I'd argue against Ulic blocking Bane's lightning and TK so easily.

Lol @ having no offense to challenge Bane, he's the more skilled duelist by virtue of having faced Exar. Unless Bane has some superior showing other than losing and getting beaten by far inferior opponents to Exar, than I don't really have to worry about Ulic losing a duel now do I? He can dodge Bane's lightning/deflect it/or block it with his saber, and none of Bane's force showings with telekinesis are powerful enough to suggest he could dominate Ulic (whose blasted back multiple Jedi at once).

Exar was hailed as an unparalleled duelist as a Jedi, during a time period where masterful swordsmen were plentiful due to frequent conflicts arising. Then Ulic stalemated him before they became Sith and received a tremendous boost in power. They both have pretty decent dueling feats and accolades (Exar's including being considered "virtually unstoppable" with his saberstaff), but the best one is Ulic contending with Sylvar ten years after his physical prime, severed from the Force. Sylvar being good enough to somewhat contend with Exar in sparring, speedblitz massassi with her bare hands, and strike as a blur to Nomi Sunrider. He would have been a far superior combatant as the version of himself who fought Exar, and they both only improved after that point.

I don't think Bane has equivalent hype or feats.

Sirak has the accolade of being the best Trainee at the Korriban academy, and Kas'im knows tons of lightsaber forms.

Ulic is really outmatched here

Originally posted by carthage
Lol @ having no offense to challenge Bane, he's the more skilled duelist by virtue of having faced Exar. Unless Bane has some superior showing other than losing and getting beaten by far inferior opponents to Exar, than I don't really have to worry about Ulic losing a duel now do I? He can dodge Bane's lightning/deflect it/or block it with his saber, and none of Bane's force showings with telekinesis are powerful enough to suggest he could dominate Ulic (whose blasted back multiple Jedi at once).

No force offense, obviously. Lol at you dodging the issue and just restating how good Exar is. Nice. He can't dodge it forever if at all and Bane destroyed a massive temple that weathered turbolaser fire, which is a bit of an upgrade to laser cannons. And Bane has also blasted multiple Jedi and Sith back.

Originally posted by ILS
Kas'im was hailed as an unparalleled duelist as a Sith, during a time period where masterful swordsmen were plentiful due to a thousand years of war arising. Then Bane beat him before he became the Sith'ari and received a tremendous boost in power with 20 years of additional training. They both have pretty decent dueling feats and accolades (Kas'im including being considered "unstoppable" with his saberstaff), ok I can't think of a good way to translate the rest into Bane but you get my point but the best one is Ulic contending with Sylvar ten years after his physical prime, severed from the Force. Sylvar being good enough to somewhat contend with Exar in sparring, speedblitz massassi with her bare hands, and strike as a blur to Nomi Sunrider. He would have been a far superior combatant as the version of himself who fought Exar, and they both only improved after that point.

I don't think Bane has equivalent hype or feats.

Bane does have equivalent hype and feats, and I'm pretty sure you know them as well.

Originally posted by Nephthys
No force offense, obviously. Lol at you dodging the issue and just restating how good Exar is. Nice. He can't dodge it forever if at all and Bane destroyed a massive temple that weathered turbolaser fire, which is a bit of an upgrade to laser cannons. And Bane has also blasted multiple Jedi and Sith back.

Sirak beat no one other than an inexperienced POD Bane, and Kas'im only "beat" his master (off panel), and we have no idea how good he was. So again kindly show me anyone they beat that compares to Null beating multiple Jedi at once, or Ulic cutting his way through nexus amped Krath/droids, killing King Ommin, fighting a Jedi whilst deprived of the force, or fighting evenly with Exar who was described as "unparalleled" . Bane nearly died to Sithspawn,was beaten by Sirak, lost a duel to Fohargh, and only beat Kas'im by gathering nexus energy from the Lehon temple. Also lol @ using his temple feat in spite of that feat being debunked multiple times

Not sure why there has to be a force advantage here, both of them are primarily duelists and have both been shown to prefer to fight it out. Bane uses lightning intermittently, and its of no real consequence for the reasons I mentioned above. Their telekinesis would only be used for shoving each other or something. Even there the power gap isn't large enough between the two to make a difference.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Bane does have equivalent hype and feats, and I'm pretty sure you know them as well. Indeed?

Kas'ims masterful dueling skills consist of sabotaging Bane's training by deliberately holding knowledge of Jar kai, getting driven back twice, and then ultimately dying due to a monologue. He doesn't have any actual accolades to my knowledge comparable to Exar lmao, and of course he has zero feats even coming close to Kun

Its hilarious that you're the second person to even compare them

Originally posted by ILS
Indeed?

Yeah. You're also missing my point. I'm not shitting on Ulic or Exar, just trying to expose carthage's double standards.

Again what double standards?

I asked you to post feats for showings that Kas'im or Sirak possess that are comparable and or superior to the showings of Ulic or Kun. Still waiting for you to post them. Skill feats were already posted multiple times for Ulic, not my fault you have nothing to offer that's superior tbh

Originally posted by carthage
Sirak beat no one other than an inexperienced POD Bane, and Kas'im only "beat" his master (off panel), and we have no idea how good he was. So again kindly show me anyone they beat that compares to Null beating multiple Jedi at once, or Ulic cutting his way through nexus amped Krath/droids, killing King Ommin, fighting a Jedi whilst deprived of the force, or fighting evenly with Exar who was described as "unparalleled" . Bane nearly died to Sithspawn,was beaten by Sirak, lost a duel to Fohargh, and only beat Kas'im by gathering nexus energy from the Lehon temple. Also lol @ using his temple feat in spite of that feat being debunked multiple times

Not sure why there has to be a force advantage here, both of them are primarily duelists and have both been shown to prefer to fight it out. Bane uses lightning intermittently, and its of no real consequence for the reasons I mentioned above. Their telekinesis would only be used for shoving each other or something. Even there the power gap isn't large enough between the two to make a difference.

Sirak was the top student in the academy. You think he bought his way there? No, he fought his way to the top as is the Sith way and established himself in the frequent duels that took place. Beating 2 featless Jedi at once means nothing. Bane (and Kas'im) can blitz fodder like that and has. And lol at Ulic killing droids and Krath. Bane probably killed more than Ulic as a Gloom Walker. Kopecz blitzed a squad of the Republic's finest (Havoc squad?) with them barely managing to get off a single shot each. And Kas'im was far greater than him. Though I don't know why I should be establishing Kas'im and Sirak against Ulic. Not really the point, I was comparing them to Null and Vodo. I'm not even dignifying the rest of your lowballing.

Throwing your opponent can be useful. Malgus for example has frequently gotten an advantage with simple throws.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Sirak was the top student in the academy. You think he bought his way there? No, he fought his way to the top as is the Sith way and established himself in the frequent duels that took place. Beating 2 featless Jedi at once means nothing. Bane (and Kas'im) can blitz fodder like that and has. And lol at Ulic killing droids and Krath. Bane probably killed more than Ulic as a Gloom Walker. Kopecz blitzed a squad of the Republic's finest (Havoc squad?) with them barely managing to get off a single shot each. And Kas'im was far greater than him. Though I don't know why I should be establishing Kas'im and Sirak against Ulic. Not really the point, I was comparing them to Null and Vodo. I'm not even dignifying the rest of your lowballing.

Throwing your opponent can be useful. Malgus for example has frequently gotten an advantage with simple throws.

Again he beat Bane when Bane was at his lowest at the academy, on topic of Bane having lost his connection to the darkside (temporarily). Sirak doesn't compare to Ulic who even at the same time in his training had already killed Null who beat back those Jedi, killed Ommin who blasted back Arca Jeth/multiple Jedi, etc.. Proof Kas'im "blitzed fodder" he has no combat showings at all outside of his duel with Bane, so nice try with your own subjective point there . Bane's showings as a Gloom walker are decent, but Ulic outduelled his opponents and they were also amped by Ommin's magic. Ulic's feat is superior. Show me a single showing for Kas'im outside of his dueling with Bane that puts him above Null beating multiple Jedi at once other than the implication of him being "great". Vodo was capable of fighting Kun evenly and without the need for cheating unlike Kas'im who sabotaged Bane's training, and unlike Kas'im he could actually hold his own against Exar without the need for tricking him.

Glad Bane can throw opponents, Ulic can do the same i,e throwing a fully armored Mando.

Edit: You claimed Bane killed more as a Gloom walker? Proof? The only showings he had was sniping those guys iirc.

Neph, to add to your points, Sirak had never lost a single duel with another apprentice before he fought Bane the second time.

And Kas'im, was not only held in esteem by Bane. Githany and Kaan both regarded him as basically the best duel in the entire order. Githany even believed that the notion of anybody besting Kas'im in the order, aside from Bane, was a laughable one, and she was standing right in front of Kaan when she said this to his face, somebody who she believed to be the embodiment of the Dark Side, and she wasn't even aware of the full scope of Kas'im's capabilities with a saberstaff yet, let alone Jar'kai.

That's all well and good but character perspectives are still usually irrelevant.

Anakin said Obi was as wise as Yoda and as powerful as Windu, I doubt most people believe this to be true.

Likewise, Kyp Durron believed himself to be more powerful than Luke - again, I doubt anyone thinks Kyp's opinion means anything.

Traya said Revan was true power, that looking at him was like looking into the heart of the force - please tell me most people don't believe Revan to be the heart of the force.

Character perspectives usually mean nothing.

Except that Kaan is the leader of the brotherhood. If anyone was better than Kas'im in his ranks he'd know it. Especially considering pretty much everyone was on Ruusan at the time.

Qui Gon Jinn was regarded as one of the best swordsmen Yoda had seen in over 400 years.

For some strange reason, I KNOW you think Kas'im would shit all over Jinn.

So what is it? Era bias? Bane trilogy bias?

I forgot you have Kas'im above Dooku.

I don't recall saying that. Nor do I see it's relevance. Yoda's opinion is probably pretty spot on though. I see nothing that suggests Qui-Gon wasn't one of the best duelists to emerge in 400 years. Nor is there anything suggesting that there was a Sith who eclipsed Kas'im.

But that's a little different, since it's based on Yoda's recollections, whereas Kaan certainly knew the value of his current forces, which were largely directly under his command at the time.

You heard it right folks, being a Sith school teacher that knows super lots of lightsaber forms and can beat a guy whose been training for 8 months tops back as a result of sabotaging his training. Bane also considered him 00ber, too!>= to two of the canonically greatest Sith lords of all time.

LMFAO.