KMC Secret Wars: Scoobs vs Existere

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Blair Wind
KMC Secret Wars Tournament


Format: Semi-final and finals. Three matches total. In the semis, Smurph will face Scoobless, and Leo will face Digi.

Power Level & Format: 2-character amalgam. One at or below high meta (upper limit examples: Namor, Cpt. Britain) plus one at or below low herald (upper limit example: Magneto)

Total Power Cap After Amalgamation: Mid Herald (upper limit example: Cpt. Marvel, WW)

Post Limit: 5

Self or Characters: We're drafting the characters, not granting ourselves the powers. So CIS is on the table.

Amping Rules: Disallowed. Materials that aid a power (i.e. Jeffries/adamantium) are allowed. Power amping is not (i.e. The Ray + Kara)

Tech Creation & Non-Autonomous Constructs/Summons: Low Herald limit

Prep: 3 seconds in an empty room

TP: Emma limit.

Speed: Up to but not including lightspeed is permissible.

Banned Powers: Speed Force, Time Manip., Duplication, Power Copying, Autonomous Constructs (tech or magic), Offensive Matter Manip., Memory Retention

Judges (so far): Abhi, DS, CDB, Kris, Newjak

- Dispersal/KO/etc. counts as a win. As will anything that will end the fight for a significant period of time.

Post Apocalyptic New York


Vision + Super Skrull


Dr. Light + Psylocke

Blair Wind
Scoobless' opening post:

Vision & Super Skrull

Ok, so I'm up against Dr Light and Psylocke, let's break down the basics, I'm up against TK, TP & Light control

TP - No problem (literally) Vision is immune:

TK - Super Skrull can block. TP as well, hell, possibly all psionic powers.

(yeah, I know that's the Invisible Woman... same power though)

If any proof can be shown (pretty sure there is none) that Super Skrull's force fields are vastly different from the Invisible Woman's then I can simply go intangible. All other powers function perfectly when Vision is ethereal:

And unlike other phasers, he can choose to be wholely or partially intangible at any moment, he is not limited to one or the other.

So I can remain untouchable while still striking physically or via force fields.

So basically, the Psylocke part of my opponent is fudged before the fight starts.


Dr Light? Not quote as neatly dealt with, but also not a huge problem. I'm gonna assume Ex has these scans coming at you in his opening, so let's get out in front of them:

Yes, Vision stores sunlight (just like Superboy) but you'll also note that Superboy is lying helpess on the ground before that happened, he was put down by an omnidirectional light/heat blast:

Also Light is solid and it takes a few moments to work. If he tries it on me then

I can tank any force blast he can emit (more on that later) but I especially love that it's so hot it causes skin to blister:

So, if that type of omnidirectional attack is used, well, I gotta say "thanks for the boost"

let's face it, all of lights attacks produce heat, Super Skrull is immune or even boosted by heat, so what's left? brawling? please! Psylocke may be nimble but neither her nor Light has the "oomph" to scratch my Super Synthezoid in H2H

That's a completely unspecial arrow going through him, and another guy (Red Star) ignoring his attacks

If an arrow can penetrate all the way through his body, what would either of these attacks do to him?

Bear in mind, those dog things were hunting down and hurting actual Heralds:

The first moment he isn't floating around like a hologram I will impale his rapist ass on an invisible, super dense, stretched out Thing finger

Also assuming he's gonna play the "I mess with the visible spectrum" card... well:

I'm not without options, pretty sure I'll be able to see through that strategy, I have excellent vision... (PUNS!!!)

So, i'm no-selling all of my opponents offence right out the gate, what else has he got?

Light form? ok, he can travel fast (really fast) I'll concede his flight speed is top notch, he may be able to run away (think that might look like a tap out to the judges though)

If he hangs around, even for a moment though, he's gonna lose.

I was thinking "ow do I attack light?" tough one, guess I can settle for imprisoning it.

Combine these ideas, with slight modifications:

Think - "superdense prison cell" (without the gaps) so dense it can contain all forms of radiation, with an interior lining of forcefield to block any TK escape attempts.


Let's see:

1. His TK and TP are rendered useless before we begin
2. His laser attacks and whatnot only serve to charge me
3. I'm not taking a nap like SUperboy, so draining is out of the question
4. I have almost every physical advantage: Strength, reach, density shifting, reaction/reflexes,
5. Processing speed - Vision thinks way faster then anyone else here

OK. Dr. Light can fly fast, but he's no speedster, he doesn't fight like Quicksilver, he doesn't even fight as fast as Robin. His only option for survival is to remain in light form and run away, forfeiting the match.


During prep I shape shift to mimic the local surroundings and erect a force field around myself, he may be able to "see" invisible opponents (not sure) but I doubt he'll consider a tree, car or rock (don't know what the battleground is yet) to be a threat, which could give me the sneaky [email protected] attack that ends the match quickly.

Blair Wind



laughing out loud

So Juggernaut isn't considered immune because he's affected by Onslaught, trans-tier telepath...

but Vision holds up against some old fart's hypnosis and Scoob kneels before him.

Basically, everything I already said still applies: This shows somebody being unable to give Vision telepathic commands, which is different than plunging my psy-knife through his skull.

It's also just not even a telepath remotely on Psylocke's calibre. Psylocke has done telepathic battle with Shadow King and Cassandra Nova. At best, this is a no limits fallacy.

Finally, this ignores Super Skrull's own weakness to telepathy.

Particularly ironic: Scoob claims to be immune to hypnosis here (as per the scan), and then, in the same post, claims to use hypnosis to beat me...

Fine, have it your way.

Judges, Droidtastic attempts to mindmeld with Psychadelic.

You can't have it both ways, Scoob. Just like Emma Frost and Sage both need to completely remove their telepathy in order to be immune to it, you can't make a tactic to mindf*ck with me while claiming to be immune to mindf*ckery.

It has gone through Wolverine's skull mutliple times, yes. smile

Note, in the second scan, that the blade shuts down Wolverine's mind, and 'only the animal remains'. Pretty impressive, because Xavier and Emma have both been kept out of Logan's mind in the past when he wants them out. Also, further proof that, even if Vision is immune, I can shut down the Skrull part of his brain.

This is the beauty of an amalgamation. Dr. Light may have slower reactions when he's out of his photonic form, so it's a really good thing that he's paired with a mindreader who reacts on instinct...

Better yet, I'll let Betsy explain.

She's a bloody ninja.

There's no reason for me to leave my photonic form, but she has lightspeed movements combined with top tier ninja training to return to lightform at the speed of C.

Literally giving me a gap a thousand times bigger than I need to kill you.

Lol, did you miss the part where I explained that Dr. Light can see every kind of energy?

You can shapeshift all you want, you still have Vision's solar gem, and Kl'rts fire powers, and you're standing still. I drain you within the moment the match starts.

Sure they do. They're still energy. They just have no properties on the visible spectrum... but that's childs play to Dr. Light.

He can manipulate god's magic because it's still energy, he can drain Super Skrull's shields.

Although I'm equally happy to just go through them. The shields are invisible, so by definition let light through.

The Ray begs to differ. smile

All right, so the match as I see it:

Painting a Psychadelic Picture

Scoob's conceded three key points:

I'm WAY, WAY, WAY faster than him.

Super Skrull just doesn't have the speed to keep up in this match. Dr. Light has feats of tagging a blitzing a Superman out of the air, and of catching up to, and draining The Ray.

The Ray has feats of moving fast enough to time travel. Legit speedster.

Additionally, Psychadelic has literal lifetimes of ninja training, bullet timing feats, and scans that prove she reacts upon instinct. It just so happens that she now has lightspeed instincts.

Scoob starts out unphased.

Originally posted by Blair Wind
f any proof can be shown (pretty sure there is none) that Super Skrull's force fields are vastly different from the Invisible Woman's then I can simply go intangible.


During prep I shape shift to mimic the local surroundings and erect a force field around myself, he may be able to "see" invisible opponents (not sure) but I doubt he'll consider a tree, car or rock (don't know what the battleground is yet) to be a threat, which could give me the sneaky [email protected] attack that ends the match quickly.

... so he's going to start out looking like a tree (which I will easily detect, given both my psychic abilities and the fact that he's still housing some bright power sources on his person), and he will only go intangible if his shields prove ineffective.

Meanwhile, he's explained that he's going to use the opening second of the match determining whether any of my holograms are the real deal.

The match will be over before he finished his calculations. I drained the Ray in a panel, and his power source eclipses Vision's.

Alternatively, psyknife KO.

He is going to attempt hypnosis

Again, please, just try it. Psylocke took it to Cassandra Nova:

She'll do the same thing to you.

Incidentally, your hypnosis failed to work on Sasquatch. no expression I think Psylocke will be OK.

Additionally, Scoob has yet to counter that light can easily pass through his shields. I will win this at a distance, via energy drain, or in melee, with my OHKO psychic weapons.

Vision's mind does not provide Skrull a defense to psychic attacks, as per our amalgam rules, and Scoob has yet to prove it blocking out somebody of Psylocke's caliber- who has shut down machines before.

Finally, Scoobless has no attacks that can harm me. His physical attacks will go through my photonic form, his energy attacks will be absorbed by me, his shields cannot contain me, and his hypnosis will just let me into his mind.

Good match Scoob!

.... this doesn't count, pressed the wrong button


Originally posted by Scoobless
.... this doesn't count, pressed the wrong button


as host of this thing i'm tempted to say this counts. scoobless indeed, newb. sneer

carry on.


Droidtastic FTW!

The Evidence

I will now present incontrovertible evidence which will reveal the holes in my opponents strongest arguments

Firstly, my opponent has suggested he may attempt to utilise Telepathy against my artificial amalgam. He claims Telepathy can control machines:

Exhibits: A - E

Psylocke can not even read a robot's mind, let alone control it!
Psylocke cannot read machines 1
Psylocke cannot read machines 2
Nate Grey is incapable of distinguishing between top-notch psi-shielding or robotic minds:
Nate Grey can't telepathically assault artificial minds
Oracle: the top telepath of the Imperial Guard is unable to read the Raptor mechanoid: Talon
Oracle fails to read Talon 1
Oracle fails to read Talon 2
Professor Xavier CAN NOT affect artificial minds:
Charles Francis Xavier - helpless against machines
And as already shown; even Despero's telepathy is useless here:
Despero can't touch Red Tornado's mind 1
Despero can't touch Red Tornado's mind 2
"Telepathy is useless --- against an android"

Another false assumption my opponent has made is this:
Originally posted by Existere
The shields are invisible, so by definition let light through.
Exhibits: F - I

At this moment, I call Monica Rambeau to testify as an expert witness for the defence!
Invisible shield blocks light 1
Invisible shield blocks light 2

Another invisible barrier blocking light

Transparent shielding blocks light from passing through
The defence now calls Doctor Henry "Hank" Pym to the stand!

Do you have anything to add Dr. Pym
Yes, I too have witnessed light failing to breach transparent barriers!

My opponent would also like you to believe that hypnosis is a form of telepathy, purely because it affects the will of the target.

The Purple Man controls the will of his victims, but there is no telepathy involved:

Exhibit - J
Purple Man 1
Purple Man 2
Purple Man 3
Purple Man 4
The Evidence shows that control of another person's will does NOT have to be the result of telepathy. Human therapists and stage performers have been using hypnosis for decades without the aid of psionic superpowers.

Hypnosis is not telepathy!

Moving on.

My opponent seeks to use trickery, in the form of holograms, in an attempt to distract or confuse my amalgam:
Originally posted by Existere
Light controls light in all its forums, including the entirety of the spectrum. Vision can look along any of those spectrums and my holograms will still appear entirely real.
You are correct about one thing; Vision CAN look along all of those spectrums (and more)

Exhibit - K
Quantum scanning.... who knew?
But actually it's far, far simpler than that. Due to Vision's own history of using holograms as a form of deception, he is fully aware of one, major, imperfection:

Exhibits: L & M
Holograms don't cast shadows!
When you can scan thousands of variables in an instant, noticing your own "old bag of tricks" is a piece of cake.


My opponent has, correctly, realised he can not compete physically with Droidtastic, he lacks the strength, stamina, durability or any offensive power that could harm this magnificent amalgam.

The problem, then, comes from the fact that there is a huge amount of doubt over whether he can use ANY powers while in his photonic form.

He is attempting to drain my solar reserves in the same manner Dr. Light once drained Superboy. Over the course of this match it has been debated back and forth if such an attack could:
A) work against a conscious foe
B) be possible while Light is in photonic form.
The opposition has entered a scan showing the draining of The Ray.
I do not believe this resolves the issue, as the Ray's light energy bleeds out of him and is easily locked onto by someone like Dr Light.

It takes Light 4-5 panels to extract heat vision from a barely conscious Superboy, and he is solid the entire time, just as he was solid when he drained energy from the Ray.

Do you choose to believe that Dr. Light...
i)As a solid entity
ii)Taking that long to Drain the solar energy from the Vision aspect of my amalgam
iii)With his extremely limited durability (as I've covered in prior posts)
iv) attempting to drain Droidtastic THROUGH his invisible shields
...could survive a physical assault from the Super Skrull OR The Vision, let alone a combination of the two?

How about a punch like this, with the fist shapshifted into a spear, at 10 times the density?

But maybe one or two observers disagree:
They believe Dr. Light CAN drain while photonic
They believe Dr. Light CAN completely bypass my shielding to drain my solar power
Well.... then what?

Exhibit - N
Vision has been drained of solar power before 1
Vision has been drained of solar power before 2
Vision has been drained of solar power before 3
So... he lost his heat ray (which I wasn't even using) he is still seen flying around, indicating his density powers are just fine. In the case of this match it wouldn't affect the majority of Super Skrull's powers either, and after it's done the ambient light/heat will begin restoring those abilities immediately.

The Verdict!

Simply put: I can't lose - going by the evidence, it is not physically possible.

I can, however, win! Even if my opponent remains incorporeal, I have avenues of attack, using hypnosis, shields or my extreme density cage.

This may turn into a waiting game, a test of stamina if you will, and in that instance I'd bet on the logical, untiring, calculating android over the emotional, fatigued, frustrated human every single time.

However, judging by his history, Dr. Light he does not tend to stay intangible for extreme lengths of time, he tends to want to mix it up and get physical, he enjoys hurting people and to do that he needs to solidify himself and that is when he will make his fatal mistake.



we temporarily interrupt these proceedings for some breaking news--SCOOBLESS AND THE MRS SCOOBLESS ARE GOING TO HAVE A BABY!!!


congrats to clan scoobless. big grin

we now return to our regularly scheduled death match. smile


nuts rednuts bluenuts

Congrats buddy. That's amazing news.

Blair Wind



This will not sway my opinion in no way!




Whatever works best for you. I've just got one more post to write, I'll do that sometime this weekend.



outstanding job, gentlemen. thumb up hopefully our judges can get their votes in and we can move on to the final by next week. judges, kindly submit your votes to bw. bw, it might be faster to post the result as soon as you have a majority. thanks again to all involved.

Blair Wind

Blair Wind

Blair Wind

Blair Wind

Blair Wind

Blair Wind
Winner: Existere

well played gents, and a huge thanks to id for the emergency assist. thumb up

Thanks to the four judges who actually read through the match.

Special thanks to DarkSaint85 for his unique input... I like the "read the thread title and flip a coin" style, you should totes be a real judge!


I did have a lot of fun in this tourney, and tried to make the best case I could.
When I saw the drafts and match-ups I thought "great the two intangible guys are fighting, we're just going to float around being unable to harm each other, his TP won't affect a machine, my energy attacks would be absorbed... can't punch light waves... "

roll eyes (sarcastic)

Obviously things evolved from that idea, but, I admit, I couldn't find a legitimate attack if he stayed intangible, just as he could not hope to win a physical fight in, basically, a human body. So I focused on bolstering my defence and throwing doubt on his offence.

Yes, there was a lot of scans shown for characters who were not involved, Despero, Xavier, etc... the truth is, I couldn't find any other showings of Vision fighting telepaths, and since Vision is so unique, Ex had the same problem, showing viruses and sentinels and such. Power comparisons of other telepaths Vs machines were the only examples I could use.

I do find the judgements very interesting in that you were swayed in opposite directions on the same points:

This next part seemed to be the most important (to me):

Yeah, for me, it all came down to making you believe that Psychadelic would have to become physical to use any offensive powers. And that the drain, his only avenue of physical attack, would be more trouble than it's worth. Guess I got it 40% right... stick out tongue

This last part, from Id:

Actually, I have a couple of scans showing that the power is 100% visual based, no psi involved.... I didn't post them because they basically prove that his hypnosis is a form of light (and we all know how that would have backfired in this match) Didn't want to shoot myself in the foot if avoidable.

The "old hag" thing - yes, she took out that team of Avengers, but it wasn't via telepathy, it was Psionic, but it was more of a TK blast. Just showing she's not the weakling Smurf claimed. It wasn't really relevant to her telepathy powers at all... I just left you all to fill in the blanks yourself, guess that backfired a little too.


Actually when I drafted my characters I just stuck with the first combo I thought of and hoped no-one drafted Magneto or a technopath, I knew others, especially Digi, were trying to be tricky as hell with drafts, I just tried to keep it simple and go with characters I knew and liked, maybe next time I'll go more exotic.

C'est la vie, better luck next time.

Good Game Exismurf, good luck in the final, you're the first (and hopefully last) person to knock me out in the first round of a tourney.

aw....and love returns to the hearts of men.... big grin see, i toldja all he wasn't the crotchedy pr!ck he was acting like. i got yer back scoob, always. thumb up

What can I say, If you want to compare my vote to Newjak, it's not really fair to Newjak.


Originally posted by abhilegend
What can I say, If you want to compare my vote to Newjak, it's not really fair to Newjak.

sneer Bring Abhi I will out judge you all day everyday sneer

Originally posted by Newjak
Bring Abhi I will out judge you all day everyday sneer



Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.