Luke Skywalker vs. Quinlan Vos

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|King Joker|
Luke as of The Empire Strikes Back.
Quinlan as of Revenge of the Sith.

Setting is the Kashyyyk forests.

Trocity
Vos stomps

|King Joker|
He got a hit on Vader, not seeing how Vos stomps, personally.

Trocity
Peak Vos would manhandle ESB Luke. Yeah he landed a hit on Vader, and then Vader got pissed and cut his hand off literally 2 seconds after.

ROTJ Luke would beat Quinlan, but this is too early.

SunRazer
Luke canonically challenged ESB Vader as per two sources, so Quinlan is not stomping, lol.

ESB Luke is vastly underrated. Between Controlling Dragonsnakes, manipulating machinery across Cloud City, challenging Vader, etc. he can easily at least present a challenge to Quinlan.

Axle
Vos

Kosmos Supreme
even Vader didn't casualy stomp Luke and had to get angry to finish the job quickly. Vos stomping is laughable, him even winning is highly questionable.

deathslash
Vos wins after a pretty good fight.

Emperordmb
Originally posted by Kosmos Supreme
even Vader didn't casualy stomp Luke and had to get angry to finish the job quickly. Vos stomping is laughable, him even winning is highly questionable.
thumb up

Jmanghan
ESB Luke was stated to be Vader's biggest challenge up to that point.

DARTH POWER
Yep. And Vader wasn't holding back against Luke at all. Not even 1 little bit.

And I saw the greatest challenge ever that ESB Luke put up when Vader casually smashed him through the window. Clearly that was a better challenge than Old Ben put up in the previous film.

Jmanghan
I don't agree with it, tbh.

Vader has fought seemingly more powerful opponents in the past.

SunRazer
No, he hasn't.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by SunRazer
No, he hasn't.


So you honestly think ESB Luke > ANH Kenobi?

SunRazer
That's more or less confirmed by sources already, lol.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by SunRazer
That's more or less confirmed by sources already, lol.


I really did laugh out loud that you actually thought an "lol" was appropriate there.

So what about ROTS Kenobi? Vader fought him as well. So is it confirmed ESB Luke > ROTS Kenobi? "lol"

FYI it's confirmed by the biggest authority of the old canon (Lucas himself) that even ROTJ Luke was only half trained and no match for Vader, forget ESB Luke "lol"

SunRazer
Well, as I've heard from Ant, "lol" is changed in meaning from "laugh out loud" to "duh" or some smirk/teasing giggle you make. The real story is that I've probably just gotten too used to saying it, so I put it at the end of every few sentences. If I put lol by itself, I'm generally actually finding something funny, otherwise I have no idea what it means.

Shadows of the Empire claims that Luke was above Old Ben, as I recall. And while Ben actually fared better, Fightsaber claims that Vader improved drastically between them. RotS Kenobi never faced that version of Vader, so it really has no relevance. RotS Kenobi would also beat Quinlan decisively, so that's not really a valid or necessary comparison.

His limited training is overrated - if you read the sources, you would realize he makes up for it with astonishing learning rate. His inexperience against new types of weapons and powers is apparent, but sources confirm his strength in the Force and innate talent with a blade was enough to challenge Vader on Bespin.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by SunRazer

His limited training is overrated - if you read the sources, you would realize he makes up for it with astonishing learning rate. His inexperience against new types of weapons and powers is apparent, but sources confirm his strength in the Force and innate talent with a blade was enough to challenge Vader on Bespin.


Well if we just talk "Legends" those sources would be fine. However if we're following Old Canon rules then Lucas words still override any other source. Whilst New Disney Canon has yet to confirm Luke's prowess as of ESB and ROTJ.

The outstanding learning rate can only get so far (logically and IMO) with a few weeks of 1 on 1 training plus 3 years of self-training, compared to say Anakin's 10 years of 1 on 1 training which only lead him to AOTC Anakin level or early TCW Level.

SunRazer
What Lucas words? That he's inexperienced? I'm pretty sure we all knew that.

AotC Anakin had a decade of training, is highly underrated, and is actually very skilled, fast and more powerful. And I'd put him above ESB Luke, to be honest.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by SunRazer
What Lucas words? That he's inexperienced? I'm pretty sure we all knew that.


That he's only half trained by ROTJ, and not truly a match for Vader.

Though I admit that could be to do with Vader being capable of Tk'ing Luke, and not necessarily referring to Luke's Saber skills.

Anyway it's in the ROTJ Audio Commentary in the scene where Luke visits Yoda.

Originally posted by SunRazer
AotC Anakin had a decade of training, is highly underrated, and is actually very skilled, fast and more powerful. And I'd put him above ESB Luke, to be honest.


Well that makes fine as long as you're putting AOTC Anakin above ESB Luke.

I just think you maybe underestimating ANH Kenobi.

SunRazer
I made ANH Kenobi's respect thread in response to him being underrated, so I know what he's capable of, lol.

And multiple sources have outright confirmed Luke is on par with Vader as a swordsman, so that's a canonical fact.

Jmanghan
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
I really did laugh out loud that you actually thought an "lol" was appropriate there.

So what about ROTS Kenobi? Vader fought him as well. So is it confirmed ESB Luke > ROTS Kenobi? "lol"

FYI it's confirmed by the biggest authority of the old canon (Lucas himself) that even ROTJ Luke was only half trained and no match for Vader, forget ESB Luke "lol" That's a lie.

ROTJ Luke absolutely destroyed Vader.

He was holding back the entire ****ing time because he didn't wanna hurt his poor cripple daddy, tbat is EASY to see in ROTJ.

Seriously, Luke stomped him after Vader mentioned Leia.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by SunRazer


And multiple sources have outright confirmed Luke is on par with Vader as a swordsman, so that's a canonical fact.


Yes but what you're not getting is that multiple sources mean squat next to the WOrd of Lucas, as made clear by the Old canon rules putting G-Canon clearly above C-Canon in authority.

It is however possible to make both Lucas and your C-Canon sources align, by logically assuming ROTJ Luke to be a match for Vader in Sabers but No Match for him in Tk. Hence no match for him in All-Out combat.

Though you do seem to be confused on what is Canon. Calling "Legend" sources a Canonical fact for one is incorrect now. Second even under the old canon rules, Lucas's word was given the highest authority (naturally).

Originally posted by Jmanghan
That's a lie.

ROTJ Luke absolutely destroyed Vader.

He was holding back the entire ****ing time because he didn't wanna hurt his poor cripple daddy, tbat is EASY to see in ROTJ.

Seriously, Luke stomped him after Vader mentioned Leia.


LOL Who lied? Lucas?

Don't blame the messenger kid. I'm just telling you what Lucas clearly states in the ROTJ Audio Commentary.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Originally posted by Jmanghan
ROTJ Luke>>>Vader

Originally posted by Me
Wtf tbh

Jmanghan
...Well, thanks Lucas, for making Luke stomping Vader a total ****ing mystery.

He clearly stomped him in ROTJ once he got serious, Vader got his ass handed to him in about 15 seconds. Luke got pissed off, Vader lost his Saber, and got his ass handed to him, then Sidious tells Luke to kill him, which he could have easily done right then and there.

But whatever, Lucas says its canon.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by Jmanghan
...Well, thanks Lucas, for making Luke stomping Vader a total ****ing mystery.

He clearly stomped him in ROTJ once he got serious, Vader got his ass handed to him in about 15 seconds. Luke got pissed off, Vader lost his Saber, and got his ass handed to him, then Sidious tells Luke to kill him, which he could have easily done right then and there.

But whatever, Lucas says its canon.


Because Luke was Uber pissed going for the kill whilst Vader... you know... wasn't.

Like I said it could be that Vader is much more powerful in Tk, and could potentially give Luke the Dooku v Kenobi treatment, but in Pure Sabres it could have been much more even. And Vader didn't want to Tk Luke, but just keep goading him into a Saber match instead.

But you can't honestly expect Luke to match Vader's Tk with 4 years of training.

EmperorSidious2
Luke stomps

Jmanghan
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Because Luke was Uber pissed going for the kill whilst Vader... you know... wasn't.

Like I said it could be that Vader is much more powerful in Tk, and could potentially give Luke the Dooku v Kenobi treatment, but in Pure Sabres it could have been much more even. And Vader didn't want to Tk Luke, but just keep goading him into a Saber match instead.

But you can't honestly expect Luke to match Vader's Tk with 4 years of training. Vader was not afraid to fatally wound Luke, as it showed in ESB.

If Vader and ROTJ Luke were so even, Vader would've been able to stand a slight chance.

Instead, Luke stomped him.

He STOMPED him.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by Jmanghan
Vader was not afraid to fatally wound Luke, as it showed in ESB.




A lot changed since then.

Vader's thoughts were betraying him in that fight as Luke pointed out.

SunRazer
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Yes but what you're not getting is that multiple sources mean squat next to the WOrd of Lucas, as made clear by the Old canon rules putting G-Canon clearly above C-Canon in authority.

It is however possible to make both Lucas and your C-Canon sources align, by logically assuming ROTJ Luke to be a match for Vader in Sabers but No Match for him in Tk. Hence no match for him in All-Out combat.

Though you do seem to be confused on what is Canon. Calling "Legend" sources a Canonical fact for one is incorrect now. Second even under the old canon rules, Lucas's word was given the highest authority (naturally).

Sources have only ever stated Luke and Vader were equals as swordsmen, although one referred to Force strength but it probably relates to potential more than power.

I meant Legends canon, or what was once Canon.

Jmanghan
If anything, Luke was the one holding back.

Looked like Vader was trying to kill him to me, and Luke was dealing with it like it was nothing.

I'm not even sure that Luke tried to wound Vader before he got angry.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by SunRazer
Sources have only ever stated Luke and Vader were equals as swordsmen, although one referred to Force strength but it probably relates to potential more than power.


Like I said, that could make sense out of both Lucas's statements, the ROTJ Novel and Legend sources.

Jmanghan
The whole fight, Luke was all "I will not fight you, Father."

While Vader was swinging his lightsaber at Luke and saying shit like "Then you will die".

Then, the very second Luke gets mad, he stomps Vader into the ground like a little *****.

Inconsistencies everywhere.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by Jmanghan
The whole fight, Luke was all "I will not fight you, Father."

While Vader was swinging his lightsaber at Luke and saying shit like "Then you will die".




That wasn't the whole fight. That was the middle section. And Luke also says in that section "Your thoughts betray you Father, I feel the good in you, the conflict" clearly suggesting Vader is more conflicted than ever in this fight.

And Luke wasn't winning that middle section.

You can say Luke won the first round putting Vader on his ass (even though being put on your ass is never a definite loss in itself). But that first round had Luke watching the Rebels getting destroyed and his anger all building up. The Emperor and Vader were goading him for ages, making him angry before he lashed out.

The final round had Luke completely lose control.

So yeah I'd say the first and final round where Luke was winning/won, definitely had Luke going for the kill moreso than Vader who was only trying to convert Luke, not destroy him.

Plus notice Vader never once attempted to TK Luke the whole fight. He did in ESB, and does in most his fights, as it's kind of his thing. Surely Luke's TK Prowess could not have been a match for Vader's at that point.

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