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Vitiate's formless (Rise of the Emperor) incarnation is assumed.

Opponents in order:-

1. Darth Vader
2. Exar Kun
3. Darth Caedus
4. Yoda
5. Luke Skywalker
6. Palpatine (Dark Empire) in a clone body

FYI:

This is most distressing. Vitiate may be more powerful then any of us assumed. And as he does not appear to have any manner of physical form, he cannot be restrained or destroyed by conventional means.

Taken from (Darth Marr's written message, Star Wars: The Old Republic: Rise of the Emperor)

Why did you make a gauntlet of characters, then basically say Vitiate can't die from any of these guys? lol.

Vitiate might fall at Luke depending on how the spirit works. He probably beats Palpatine though, in all honesty.

^^^

Vitiate's formless incarnation cannot be stopped by conventional methods. So what can Luke Skywalker do? Make a wish?

He's probably more powerful, and obviously a better combatant. He doesn't have any planet-buster stunts or anything, but he has other excellent feats / hype.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
He's probably more powerful,
This incarnation of Vitiate is stated to possess immeasurable power:

Enduring and merciless and quite possibly unkillable, Monoliths plainly illustrate the immeasurable power of their creator and are best avoided at all costs.

From (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Rise of the Emperor)

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
and obviously a better combatant.
Which is useless in this contest.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
He doesn't have any planet-buster stunts or anything, but he has other excellent feats / hype.
Stunts?

You call these developments stunts?

Deadly Field / Death Field are among the most difficult and taxing Force powers to perform in the mythos. Darth Bane was able to conjure a Deadly Field of 10 m radius by drawing on the power of a nexus and the feat still significantly taxed him. In comparison, Vitiate conjured a Deadly Field / Death Field on planetary-scale. Imagine the power needed to perform this feat; 8000 Sith Lords and 10 days of non-stop exertion is needed.

1.) Obvious hyperbole is obvious hyperbole. Countless characters, including Anakin Skywalker, have been labeled like this.

2.) Well, I don't really care for your "Vitiate can't be killed as a spirit," so I'm pretending it's physical body to save the BS.
Though, in all honesty, I'm sure the Dagger of Mortis will work just fine on poor old Vitiate. Or the weird Wall of Light thing too.

3.) Yeah.
Good for Vitiate, tbh. I have him above/tied with DE Sidious for a reason.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
1.) Obvious hyperbole is obvious hyperbole. Countless characters, including Anakin Skywalker, have been labeled like this.
Its not an hyperbole. Vitiate conjured a Deadly Field of planetary-scale in this form, a feat that requires thousands of Force-users and multiple days of combined exertion to perform otherwise.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
2.) Well, I don't really care for your "Vitiate can't be killed as a spirit," so I'm pretending it's physical body to save the BS.
Though, in all honesty, I'm sure the Dagger of Mortis will work just fine on poor old Vitiate. Or the weird Wall of Light thing too.
1. You need to stick to the rules of this thread.

2. Prove that Wall of Light can stop Vitiate.

3. And how can the Dagger of Mortis be used on a formless entity? Besides, this weapon have not been considered.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
3.) Yeah.
Good for Vitiate, tbh. I have him above/tied with DE Sidious for a reason.
Sidious (Dark Empire) possesses raw power equal or greater then that of 8000 Sith Lords?

1.) I never said the feat was hyperbole - I said the accolade was. I can quote you an identical one for the Dread Masters, in which we know are not limitless in power.

2.) That's not really how KMC works, lol. The Wall of Light stopped Spirit!Exar Kun, and the Dagger can probably kill even spirits given it can kill something like the Ones.

3.) So it seems, yeah.

I'm doing the shitty numbering quote thing because it's 3am where I am. mmm (EDIT: Lol, fixed typos in post above).

Luke has Force Light, lol.

Dies to Luke, Sidious and possibly Yoda.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
1.) I never said the feat was hyperbole - I said the accolade was. I can quote you an identical one for the Dread Masters, in which we know are not limitless in power.
Vitiate's "planet Ziost ravaging" feat lends credibility to his accolade. It is a feat that requires thousands of Force-users to perform otherwise. Vitiate have immeasurable power because he can grow in power non-stop and he is capable of performing feats that thousands of Force-users can collectively perform otherwise.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
2.) That's not really how KMC works, lol.
I don't care. You need to stick to the rules of this thread.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
The Wall of Light stopped Spirit!Exar Kun, and the Dagger can probably kill even spirits given it can kill something like the Ones.
That Wall of Light was conjured by thousands of Jedi, a single Jedi cannot conjure Wall of Light of such magnitude. And if it was a viable option then the Jedi would have utilized Wall of Light against Vitiate on Ziost, they didn't and this implies that this power cannot stop Vitiate.

B/W Vitiate is far more powerful then Exar Kun.

How can a formless being can be stabbed? Only a physical being can be stabbed.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
3.) So it seems, yeah.
Then he would have just vaporized Luke Skywalker. Why didn't he?

Originally posted by SunRazer
Luke has Force Light, lol.
Makes no difference.

Originally posted by Stigma
Dies to Luke, Sidious and possibly Yoda.
Troll elsewhere and stay out of my threads.

@Legend - Yes, it does. It can counter dark side entities like Vitiate, and it had success against Abeloth, a being of greater power. And I'm not debating that with you.

You need to stop acting as if Vitiate is utterly incapable of being affected in this state. If so, he would've beaten the entire galaxy as a spirit, but clearly that wasn't the case. Nobody in Star Wars is omnipotent - they are limits to every being's power.

Also, Vitiate isn't far and away more powerful than Kun. Kun is canonically more powerful than the ancient Sith, and Vitiate was wary of the power of the ancient Sith. Thus, it stands to reason Kun is at least loosely comparable in power to Vitiate.

And why did you even make this gauntlet if you believed Vitiate could beat everybody here?

Sidious wormholes him

Originally posted by SunRazer
@Legend - Yes, it does. It can counter dark side entities like Vitiate, and it had success against Abeloth, a being of greater power. And I'm not debating that with you.
Then why the Jedi didn't utilize Wall of Light to stop Vitiate on Ziost? It was not a viable option. Simple.

Originally posted by SunRazer
You need to stop acting as if Vitiate is utterly incapable of being affected in this state. If so, he would've beaten the entire galaxy as a spirit, but clearly that wasn't the case. Nobody in Star Wars is omnipotent - they are limits to every being's power.
Vitiate could be stopped with (special) methods, methods that we are not aware of and are likely plot-devices.

Vitiate will become all-powerful, if he consumes other beings on galactic scale. He should be stopped before it is too late. Though how this happens? we don't know.

Originally posted by SunRazer
And why did you even make this gauntlet if you believed Vitiate could beat everybody here?
It is not a matter of my belief, it is clearly stated that Vitiate (formless incarnation) cannot be stopped by conventional methods.

I had a reason to create this thread.

Originally posted by carthage
Sidious wormholes him
This power cannot destroy spirits or formless beings. Palpatine survived his own Force Storm in formless state.

1. The Jedi aren't comparable to Luke, but more importantly, I didn't even mention Wall of Light. I said Force Light, which is actually a different power.

2. Methods that are available to the main characters, obviously. And he won't become all-powerful, because nobody is all-powerful in Star Wars.

3. And these characters have more than "conventional" methods at their disposal.

Originally posted by SunRazer
1. The Jedi aren't comparable to Luke, but more importantly, I didn't even mention Wall of Light. I said Force Light, which is actually a different power.
Luke Skywalker isn't better then an entire Jedi Order. Even Abeloth isn't.

Also, what is this Force Light?

Originally posted by SunRazer
2. Methods that are available to the main characters, obviously.
Utter nonsense! If this was true then the protagonists would have stopped Vitiate on planet Ziost. Jedi and Sith attempted to stop Vitiate on planet Ziost with all offensive options under their belt, they failed.

Haven't you played Rise of the Emperor content?

The lore absolutely makes it clear that lightsabers, other weapons, and Force powers cannot stop formless Vitiate. PERIOD.

Here is an example of a plot-device:

Dark Council has assembled a contingent of powerful Sith seers to get a fix on the Emperor's presence. When he makes his move, it is believed he will not distinguish between former friend or foe, as they will all eventually become his food and none will remain.

Taken from (Star Wars: The Old Republic (The Emperor's Return))

Originally posted by SunRazer
And he won't become all-powerful, because nobody is all-powerful in Star Wars.
He 'can' become all-powerful. This is his primary objective.

Originally posted by SunRazer
3. And these characters have more than "conventional" methods at their disposal.
And these are?

Not sure why is it debated. DE Sidious still has more raw power it seems and points about Luke were covered by SunRazer. Even Ziost!Vitiate loses to them.

Originally posted by Stigma
Not sure why is it debated. DE Sidious still has more raw power it seems and points about Luke were covered by SunRazer. Even Ziost!Vitiate loses to them.
Take your bullshit elsewhere.

I don't see LeGenD's post but I have a feeling he spews out something that most of us would like to say to him... amirite?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Also, what is this Force Light?
Nevermind! Checked it.

It is unlikely to work on a super-strong being like Vitiate. Otherwise, Jedi Order would have used this Force power against him.

----

Can someone tell this member Stigma to stay out of my thread? This member will be reported otherwise.

Although I don't see LeGenD's post, I have a feeeling he believes he dictates who can post in what thread. LOL



Regardless, I am deeply interested how this debate turns out.

Ziost!Vitiate is undeniably top 3 Force users. Can he beat Luke and Sidious? I have my doubts much like SunRazer who so eloquently explained his stance thus far.

Exar Kun amulet banishes him.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Exar Kun amulet banishes him.
???

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Vitiate's formless (Rise of the Emperor) incarnation is assumed.

Then frankly without a host, there's only so much he can do to these guys that are powerful enough to resist his possession. That being said, he's also all but immune to standard forms of attack.

This gauntlet is basically pointless because Vitiate needs prep to destroy his enemies, and they need prep to be able to destroy him. Maybe Luke or Yoda could WOL him, but who knows?

Assuming physical incarnation, he loses to 5 and 6.



He's referring to what Exar Kun did to Freedon Nadd's ghost lol.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
???

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/4/48954/1662905-new_picture__36_.jpg

Kun's gauntlet can kill spirits or something.

Originally posted by Stigma
I don't see LeGenD's post but I have a feeling he spews out something that most of us would like to say to him... amirite?

He's such a goof. He said take your bullshit and go troll elsewhere when you said he dies to Luke, Sidious and possibly Yoda.


He made this gauntlet, included an FYI at the end about Vitiate not being able to be killed by conventional, and then bitched and moaned when posters say he won't clear.

"What will Luke do, make a wish? derp derp?"

Such a f***ing biased clown LMFAO.

Legend Wall of Light and Force light are not conventional methods, they are special and rarely used powers designed not only to counter the dark side, but eradicate dark side entities. Its worked twice against the spirit Exar Kun, against the dark side energies of Ambria and against Sith illusions made from dark side energy. Give me one could reason why it won't work against Vitiate.

Spirit!Vitiate could stop Vader, Kun or Caedus. But with these powers Yoda or Luke will beat him.

Also if your not prepared to entertain the idea Vitiate can't clear, then this is a spite/troll thread plain and simple.

EDIT: Also DE Sidious can channel spirits, so he could defeat Vitiate by draining his power.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
This incarnation of Vitiate is stated to possess immeasurable power:

Enduring and merciless and quite possibly unkillable, Monoliths plainly illustrate the immeasurable power of their creator and are best avoided at all costs.

From (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Rise of the Emperor)


To use your own logic against you, Revenge of the Sith Sidious have already elevated himself to a level that is above even spirit Vitiate.

And then there was Palpatine, of course: he was beyond power. He showed nothing of what might be within. Though seen with the eyes of the dark side itself, Palpatine was an event horizon. Beneath his entirely ordinary surface was absolute, perfect nothingness. Darkness beyond darkness.

Source: Revenge of the Sith


Beyond Power > Immeasurable Power

Does Vitiate have any quote that surpasses this revelation? Otherwise, take your fanon nonsense elsewhere.

Originally posted by Trocity
To use your own logic against you, Revenge of the Sith Sidious have already elevated himself to a level that is above even spirit Vitiate.

And then there was Palpatine, of course: he was beyond power. He showed nothing of what might be within. Though seen with the eyes of the dark side itself, Palpatine was an event horizon. Beneath his entirely ordinary surface was absolute, perfect nothingness. Darkness beyond darkness.

Source: Revenge of the Sith


Beyond Power > Immeasurable Power

Does Vitiate have any quote that surpasses this revelation? Otherwise, take your fanon nonsense elsewhere.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
The lore absolutely makes it clear that lightsabers, other weapons, and Force powers cannot stop formless Vitiate. PERIOD.
Then why make a thread on him battling other people?

mmm

Luke I'd say would win his battle. Palpatine having knowledge of Sith teachings and knowledge of vitiate probable I'd say he has a good shot, yoda with his knowledge of the force and deep concentration and understanding with the force. Also he transcendsthe physical plain he can beat vitiate IMO. (Becoming a force spirit)

Originally posted by Nephthys
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/4/48954/1662905-new_picture__36_.jpg

Kun's gauntlet can kill spirits or something.
Interesting.

Thanks for sharing this information.

Originally posted by Trocity
He's such a goof. He said take your bullshit and go troll elsewhere when you said he dies to Luke, Sidious and possibly Yoda.


He made this gauntlet, included an FYI at the end about Vitiate not being able to be killed by conventional, and then bitched and moaned when posters say he won't clear.

"What will Luke do, make a wish? derp derp?"

Such a f***ing biased clown LMFAO.
So much hostility...

My arguments are based on factual information and observations. My bias have nothing to do with this.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Legend Wall of Light and Force light are not conventional methods, they are special and rarely used powers designed not only to counter the dark side, but eradicate dark side entities. Its worked twice against the spirit Exar Kun, against the dark side energies of Ambria and against Sith illusions made from dark side energy. Give me one could reason why it won't work against Vitiate.
These Force powers are impressive but it is unclear if BioWare considers them 'conventional' or not. We don't know how Vitiate was stopped.

The Jedi Order likely had knowledge of these techniques but their effectiveness against Vitiate is unclear. It is possible that some Jedi attempted to use these powers against Vitiate on planet Ziost and they didn't work.

Vitiate's immense power and defensive capabilities are not likely to be overwhelmed easily.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Spirit!Vitiate could stop Vader, Kun or Caedus. But with these powers Yoda or Luke will beat him.
Covered above.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Also if your not prepared to entertain the idea Vitiate can't clear, then this is a spite/troll thread plain and simple.
I have created this thread for a reason that I may reveal later on.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
EDIT: Also DE Sidious can channel spirits, so he could defeat Vitiate by draining his power.
I am not getting this point. Kindly elaborate.

Originally posted by Trocity
To use your own logic against you, Revenge of the Sith Sidious have already elevated himself to a level that is above even spirit Vitiate.

And then there was Palpatine, of course: he was beyond power. He showed nothing of what might be within. Though seen with the eyes of the dark side itself, Palpatine was an event horizon. Beneath his entirely ordinary surface was absolute, perfect nothingness. Darkness beyond darkness.

Source: Revenge of the Sith


Beyond Power > Immeasurable Power

Does Vitiate have any quote that surpasses this revelation? Otherwise, take your fanon nonsense elsewhere.
Vitiate is stated to have immeasurable power in the sense that he created beings of Dark Side which were all but invincible and was able to perform actions that required thousands of Force-users otherwise. This is the intended point.

As for the quote you cited, it is pure hyperbole. Nothing to back it up with.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Then why make a thread on him battling other people?

mmm
Their is a point to make.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Luke I'd say would win his battle.
How?

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Palpatine having knowledge of Sith teachings and knowledge of vitiate probable I'd say he has a good shot,
Even Palpatine's greatest Force power is useless in this contest.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
yoda with his knowledge of the force and deep concentration and understanding with the force. Also he transcendsthe physical plain he can beat vitiate IMO. (Becoming a force spirit)
Yoda will beat Vitiate as a spirit? Thanks for the laugh.

Originally posted by Trocity
He's such a goof. He said take your bullshit and go troll elsewhere when you said he dies to Luke, Sidious and possibly Yoda.


He made this gauntlet, included an FYI at the end about Vitiate not being able to be killed by conventional, and then bitched and moaned when posters say he won't clear.

"What will Luke do, make a wish? derp derp?"

Such a f***ing biased clown LMFAO.
Ah... so nothing new. Same old goofy LeGenD.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD


So there is no quote in existence for Vitiate that elevates him Beyond Power?

Thanks. I accept your concession.

LOL LeGenD got demolished.



@ LeGenD, FYI:

http://www.dumpaday.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/big-bang-theory.gif

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
These Force powers are impressive but it is unclear if BioWare considers them 'conventional' or not. We don't know how Vitiate was stopped.The fact that it should logically be effective proves that it is. You can fall back on ambiguity to support your claim Vitiate clears.Now your just baselessly speculating, unless of course you have prove this.Best reveal it now before you lose what little credibility you have left.Originally posted by Trocity
Such a f***ing biased clown LMFAO. Oops, too late.He can channel the power of spirits i.e. drain them.
If Vitiate's power is immeasurable i.e. limitless, then why hasn't he consumed the galaxy yet?

And how is it his pawns were stopped by the protags?

Well said on all accounts. It's a shame he'll find some way to deflect all of your points with vague speculations of his own creation.

You and others have destroyed him countless times, it's honestly mystifying that he keeps this up.

Well as the saying goes:

http://memecrunch.com/meme/4BA04/arguing-with-an-idiot-is-like-playing-chess-with-a-pigeon/image.png?w=500&c=1

Luke could probably also Mind Walk to destroy Vitiate's spirit if needed.

Vitiate's spirit was untouchable for loosers like HoT or GM Shan. Against a true masters of the Force like Yoda or Sidous or Plagueis he would be doomed.

He dies at Yoda.

I see Legend is still using TOR character statements as canon while dismissing the same type of evidence from other eras. There really is no excuse doing it twice.

Also, please don't hit me with "EW knew the Emperor very well so such claims hold weight" - EW is incapable of understanding what "beyond power" or "all powerful" actually is.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Luke could probably also Mind Walk to destroy Vitiate's spirit if needed.
Vitiate appears to be a formless entity, rather then a proper spirit. He is not described as a spirit in the lore.

Check these descriptions:

The man now called Vitiate by those who once served him was not strong enough to usurp all life on Yavin 4 after his reawakening. However, he did gain power enough to flee the jungle moon and survive. Now that he has found in Ziost a suitable target to replenish himself--now that he appears to grow more powerful by the hour--what now? When will his unforgiving depletion of Ziost end? And when it does end, what fate will befall the rest of the galaxy?

Taken from (Star Wars: The Old Republic)

&

In another time, it might have been cause for celebration. It might have emboldened the Empire, breathing new life into their efforts to crush the Republic. But with the Sith Emperor's apparent reawakening comes the common knowledge that he is no longer interested in ruling over the galaxy. Instead, he seeks to consume it. The Empire's highest ranking officers and dignitaries are now in a state of heightened alert, and the Dark Council has assembled a contingent of powerful Sith seers to get a fix on the Emperor's presence. When he makes his move, it is believed he will not distinguish between former friend or foe, as they will all eventually become his food and none will remain.

Taken from (Star Wars: The Old Republic)

Also, he may not give Luke Skywalker the time needed to perform a Mind Walk.

Originally posted by ILS
I see Legend is still using TOR character statements as canon while dismissing the same type of evidence from other eras. There really is no excuse doing it twice.
I posted that statement in response to a silly contest of quotes started by another member. You didn't notice it?

Originally posted by ILS
Also, please don't hit me with "EW knew the Emperor very well so such claims hold weight" - EW is incapable of understanding what "beyond power" or "all powerful" actually is.
And why would an Emperor's Wrath not understand the meaning of these statements? Vitiate was perceived as a god in the Empire.

Hm Legend, do you think The Daughter is capable of defeating Ziost!Vitiate?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Hm Legend, do you think The Daughter is capable of defeating Ziost!Vitiate?
Unless she finds a way to get a fix on his presence, I am not sure how she would even fight him.

Did The Ones get a fix on Qui-Gon Jinn's spirit when he visited Mortis?

They never mentioned Jinn. mmm Also, why make a thread if you...

1.) Already decided for all members Vitiate cannot be harmed by anyone's Force powers.
2.) Already decided no being can get a fix location on the Emperor - not even the Ones can.
3.) Consider it trolling if members say Yoda, Darth Sidious, or Luke Skywalker can beat Vitiate.

It's obvious your intentions is a victory for Vitiate. So, why make the topic if you refuse others thoughts?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
They never mentioned Jinn. mmm Also, why make a thread if you...

1.) Already decided for all members Vitiate cannot be harmed by anyone's Force powers.
2.) Already decided no being can get a fix location on the Emperor - not even the Ones can.
3.) Consider it trolling if members say Yoda, Darth Sidious, or Luke Skywalker can beat Vitiate.

It's obvious your intentions is a victory for Vitiate. So, why make the topic if you refuse others thoughts?
My intended message is that it is premature to rank characters in the manner of 1, 2, 3 and so on. Some characters can have characteristics that make them virtually impossible to handle by conventional methods and/or even unsuitable for versus scenarios. While members are free to rank characters, they should keep the aforementioned complexities and ground realities in mind.

If Luke Skywalker is assumed to be no. 1, their should be some solid reasoning behind it. The typical son of Anakin Skywalker and his exploits related arguments aren't sufficient. Their are beings in the Star Wars who may utterly trash Luke in clash should it come down to that (or) the Jedi in question might find it impossible to tackle them. And formless Vitiate is likely among such beings.

Darth Marr's frustration sums it up really well:

This is most distressing. Vitiate may be more powerful then any of us assumed. And as he does not appear to have any manner of physical form, he cannot be restrained or destroyed by conventional means.

Taken from (Darth Marr's written message, Star Wars: The Old Republic: Rise of the Emperor)

Not just the aforementioned revelation, but both the Jedi and Sith ran out of options about how to stop Vitiate on planet Ziost and watched its destruction from afar. This plot carries a message; that Vitiate isn't your typical villain who can be stopped with a lightsaber or some Force power. That the Jedi and Sith have to do better then this..

The same can be said about really any Force Spirit, tbh. Darth Nox couldn't kill Kallig's spirit, etc etc. The fact Vitiate's spirit can't be harmed in that method isn't anything new - and not an indication of power.
I also wouldn't consider rare Force powers as "conventional methods," such as Force Light or Wall of Light. No where does it say Vitiate cannot be harmed by the Force as a spirit, that's just your silly speculation.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
The same can be said about really any Force Spirit, tbh. Darth Nox could't kill Kallig's spirit, etc etc. The fact Vitiate's spirit can't be harmed in that method isn't anything new - and not an indication of power.
I also wouldn't consider rare Force powers as "conventional methods," such as Force Light or Wall of Light. No where does it say Vitiate cannot be harmed by the Force as a spirit, that's just your silly speculation.
Sith have created artifacts that can be used to banish or destroy Sith spirits. Exar Kun's amulet is an example. Though, whether these artifacts work on Vitiate or not, is open to debate. The Dark Council assembled a contingent of powerful (specialized) Sith to get a fix on Emperor's presence. What became of them or was the objective achieved, remains to be seen.

BioWare writers are not clueless when it comes to matters of the Star Wars. They understand lot of stuff that they work upon. For example, they demonstrated the mysteries and complexities of Yavin IV in a fantastic manner. I was not even aware of some stuff about Yavin IV before Rise of the Emperor expansion came out. They would definitely have knowledge of all Force powers and techniques introduced in the lore.

So Vitiate can be affected by stuff then, such as amulets. I thought Force powers couldn't affect him though?



I'm sure other powers will work too then, like Wall of Light / Force Light, which is also used to vanquish spirits.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
So Vitiate can be affected by stuff then, such as amulets? I thought Force powers couldn't affect him though.



I'm sure other powers will work too then, like Wall of Light / Force Light, which is also used to vanquish spirits.
These are just assumptions so far. Nothing concrete.

Unlike a typical spirit, Vitiate is stupendously powerful and is able to manipulate the Force and perform actions that put any spirit to shame.

No. Both the Wall of Light and Sith amulets can destroy spirits.
Therefore, they can destroy Vitiate.

Vitiate being extremely powerful doesn't make him immune to attacks, lol.
Many spirits can manipulate the Force, such as Revan and Kallig (and others).

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
No. Both the Wall of Light and Sith amulets can destroy spirits.
Therefore, they can destroy Vitiate.

Vitiate being extremely powerful doesn't make him immune to attacks, lol.
Many spirits can manipulate the Force, such as Revan and Kallig (and others).
Vitiate isn't a typical spirit.

If it was so easy to stop him, then the Sith would have managed to do so on planet Ziost.

I know, you just said that above. Luke Skywalker too is "stupendously powerful", and being able to manipulate the Force as a spirit is not anything special.

EDIT: Ah, you edited your post. Well, the above is referring to your pre-deleted post.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I know, you just said that above. Luke Skywalker too is "stupendously powerful", and being able to manipulate the Force as a spirit is not anything special.

EDIT: Ah, you edited your post. Well, the above is referring to your pre-deleted post.
The Empire doesn't have stortage of Sith Artifacts and the Jedi are acquainted with powers such as Wall of Light. All options were on the table, but nothing was sufficient to stop Vitiate on planet Ziost. Both the Jedi and Sith helplessly watched destruction of Ziost from afar.

Luke Skywalker doesn't have characteristics of Vitiate.

The highest ranking Sith on Ziost was Lana and the PC. I don't recall any other Sith even being there, hence why no one tried to exploit the artifacts.

I do not believe the Jedi even have the Tedryn Holocron in their possession. Even so, the highest ranking Jedi on Ziost was the PC (assuming a Jedi went).

Even with these powers, remember they probably need to be more powerful than Vitiate for it work, hence why if they did have it, trying it would be pointless.

Luckily, Luke Skywalker is a Force-user on Vitiate's playing field.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
The highest ranking Sith on Ziost was Lana and the PC. I don't recall any other Sith even being there, hence why no one tried to exploit the artifacts.
We get to explore a limited part of the planet so it is unclear how many Sith were stationed there and what were their ranks.

Do keep in mind this:

Today, Ziost remains an important commercial, political and population center of the Empire--this in spite of its shift from a warm climate with dense forests to a bitterly cold tundra.

Taken from (Star Wars: The Old Republic)

It is possible that Darth Marr had dispatched other contingents to planet Ziost and eventually reached the conclusion that nothing is working. Therefore, his letter to the Sith protagonist.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I do not believe the Jedi even have the Tedryn Holocron in their possession. Even so, the highest ranking Jedi on Ziost was the PC (assuming a Jedi went).
Why not? The Jedi Order was busy investigating mysteries of the past and uncovering ancient artifacts. Many Jedi were active on these missions including Barsen'thor III and Gnost Dural.

There were some high ranking Jedi on planet Ziost. Master Surro was among them. The Republic even went as far as to invade planet Ziost while Vitiate was there.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Even with these powers, remember they probably need to be more powerful than Vitiate for it work, hence why if they did have it, trying it would be pointless.

Luckily, Luke Skywalker is a Force-user on Vitiate's playing field.
The Jedi and Sith can perform actions jointly or with their combined might, if they feel the need to do something big or are up against a significant threat. On Ziost, they had been coordinating even with the intelligence agencies.

So you have no proof any other Sith Lords, let alone high-ranking ones, were on Ziost? Check.
You also failed to show proof that the Jedi have the Tedryn Holocron in their possession. Check.

Given they don't have these powers in their possession, the fact Vitiate wasn't killed shouldn't be a surprise.
Luke's Wall of Light / Force Light will be a power that can work against Vitiate. It just depends on who is more powerful.

Luke is more powerful than any of those Jedi is what I think Ant is getting at.

I do, actually. Sith amulets and the Wall of Light affect spirits. Vitiate is, shockingly for you I guess, a spirit.

That's a codex entry, lmfao. I don't recall Jedi Historian's writing the codex entries - unless you have something to prove it?
And even then, knowing a power's existence, and then being able to perform said power (or know how) is completely different.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
And even then, knowing a power's existence, and then being able to perform said power (or know how) is completely different.
And being able to apply it at a certain potency.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I do, actually. Sith amulets and the Wall of Light affect spirits. Vitiate is, shockingly for you I guess, a spirit.
Prove that they can be effective against Vitiate. I am waiting.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
That's a codex entry, lmfao. I don't recall Jedi Historian's writing the codex entries - unless you have something to prove it?
And even then, knowing a power's existence, and then being able to perform said power (or know how) is completely different.
How do you get codex entries? By interacting with the environment and documented records in the game.

Yeah, nice excuse. You sure that the likes of Barsen'thor III do not know how to apply Wall of Light?

Originally posted by Emperordmb
And being able to apply it at a certain potency.
The Jedi of the TOR era are likely stronger then those in earlier times on average and relatively do not lack in experience and competence either.

They still lack the strength of Luke Skywalker.

1.) They are effective against the spirits of Freedon Nadd and Exar Kun. Vitiate is also a spirit.
2.) Uh, cool? Like I said, knowing the power exists doesn't translate to knowing how to perform the power - let alone to a masterful degree.
Additionally, these codex entries are, to my knowledge, an out-of-universe source for the benefit of the player behind the computer screen.
3.) I don't really know, or care, if Barsen'thor knows the ability. I don't care for the speculation either way.

At this stage, your arguments are purely asking me to prove a negative, lol.

watch?v=f991gJOP47c

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
1.) They are effective against the spirits of Freedon Nadd and Exar Kun. Vitiate is also a spirit.
And these two are as powerful and capable as Vitiate?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
2.) Uh, cool? Like I said, knowing the power exists doesn't translate to knowing how to perform the power - let alone to a masterful degree.
Read this:

MASTERS OF THE FORCE and scholars of its many mysteries, Jedi Consulars serve the Order as diplomats and teachers of the ancient past.

Taken from (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia)

Within the curriculum, Exar Kun: The Lesson, The Warning is a chapter that is commonly taught to padawans during the TOR era.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Additionally, these codex entries are, to my knowledge, an out-of-universe source for the benefit of the player behind the computer screen.
I perceive them as documented pieces of history. They are actually obtained from the environment, after-all.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
3.) I don't really know, or care, if Barsen'thor knows the ability. I don't care for the speculation either way.
This Jedi seems to have incredible understanding of the Force. After-all, he solved the mysteries of Plague of Vivicar and the Children of the Emperor. Two major threats that would have destroyed the Jedi Order otherwise.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
At this stage, your arguments are purely asking me to prove a negative, lol.
I am asking you to prove that the referred powers can be effective against Vitiate. So far, your argument is that they are effective against much lesser threats. This is not sufficient proof.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
They still lack the strength of Luke Skywalker.
They collectively overshadow him.

2.) That... that doesn't mean anything.
3.) I don't really care how you perceive them, tbh.
4.) Well, good for Barsen'thor?

1 and 5.) Being more powerful doesn't make you immune to attacks, lol.

The power of a spirit is irrelevant, an amulet or wall of light severs any anchor a Sith spirit has to the physical realm and banishes them to the void.

Darth Sidious was the only one strong enough to be able to return to the physical realm through sheer strength and willpower, but he was thwarted by the combined spirits of every single Jedi that ever lived and trapped in the void.

I'd also love to know how Vitiate would kill Sidious's spirit as well lol. Even if Vitiate destroys Sidious's clone body (which he wont), he has no way to destroy Sidious's spirit.

So at worst it'd be a stalemate.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Those powers are effective against many threats, not denying this. But will they be effective against Vitiate? This is the question that may or may not be officially addressed.So we draw our own conclusions. HINT: They will.Correct. You're making a claim without proof *opens proverbial trashcan* - and there it goes.

I on the other hand, am reaching a logical conclusion, it's called deductive reasoning:

1. Wall of Light and Force Light powers are effective against spirits.
2. Vitiate is a spirit.
3. Wall of Light and Force Light powers are therefore effective against Vitiate.

You claimed Vitiate isn't a normal spirit. Prove it.
You claimed Wall of Light and Force Light are conventional powers. Prove it.
Your point being? They haven't even located Vitiate's spirit yet so even if they did they couldn't attack him.
Your peers. So yes. Er, if Sidious drains him of all his power, he dies lol.

Funnily enough, Revan didn't drain Meetra of all her power.To bad DE Sidious isn't a spirit. I'm talking about those he possessed lol, he tries and fails to kill the protag many times, then gives up and pretends him wants you around.

And though the monoliths apparently can't die, they still couldn't kill the protags...

Guess they have limits, who could have guessed?

Originally posted by Beniboybling
To bad DE Sidious isn't a spirit.

Well isn't he kind of one?

Not in any way that matters, as his spirit is housed in a physical form.

Beniboy casually destroying LeGenD with logic and reason, two completely foreign concepts to the latter.

He doesn't even know how to respond, he is utterly perplexed.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
2.) That... that doesn't mean anything.
3.) I don't really care how you perceive them, tbh.
4.) Well, good for Barsen'thor?

1 and 5.) Being more powerful doesn't make you immune to attacks, lol.

1 and 5. The Jedi were able to keep palpatine someone we all know to be more powerful than vitiate so this ability will work on vitiate if used.

Vitiate is probably more powerful than Palpatine. And they didn't use Wall of Light on Palpatine, lawl.
They dragged his spirit to the depths of Chaos with all the remnants of the dead Jedi holding him down.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Vitiate is probably more powerful than Palpatine.

Based on?

The ground realities of the mythos.

Gewd, I would avoid answering too if I were you. You are wise to cower before me.

http://r30.imgfast.net/users/3013/11/32/39/smiles/3175325850.gif

Sidious is the ultimate sith lord and is currently not surpassed by any except Luke Skywalker

How about The Ones? The Bedlam Spirits?

The ones are dead. Don't really count spirits or other god like entities

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
The ones are dead.
So is almost everyone else argued in versus threads, including Sidious and Luke themselves.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
So is almost everyone else argued in versus threads, including Sidious and Luke themselves.

just take it as I don't consider the ones or or God like entities when comparing people like Luke and Sidious.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
So we draw our own conclusions. HINT: They will.
Whether these powers will be effective against Vitiate or not, remains to be seen. However, Vitiate is not likely to give opposition a chance at undermining him in a direct confrontation. He can attack too, you know.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Correct. You're making a claim without proof *opens proverbial trashcan* - and there it goes

I on the other hand, am reaching a logical conclusion, it's called deductive reasoning:

1. Wall of Light and Force Light powers are effective against spirits.
2. Vitiate is a spirit.
3. Wall of Light and Force Light powers are therefore effective against Vitiate.
See above.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
You claimed Vitiate isn't a normal spirit. Prove it.
He retains his tremendous power, does not needs an anchor to function in the materialistic realm, and defies pull of the void.

You also recognized Vitiate as an artificial spirit in your blog not long ago: http://www.comicvine.com/profile/beniboybling/blog/understanding-the-nature-of-force-ghosts-sith-spir/105225/

Make up your mind.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
You claimed Wall of Light and Force Light are conventional powers. Prove it.
Darth Marr used the term "conventional means." These powers might be covered as options.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Your point being? They haven't even located Vitiate's spirit yet so even if they did they couldn't attack him.
Vitiate have interacted with them on planets Yavin IV and Ziost. Yet, they were not able to stop him. A reasonable strategy is to get a fix on his spirit from afar with use of arcane techniques. As pointed out earlier, Vitiate is not likely to give opposition a chance at undermining him in a direct confrontation.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Your peers. So yes.
Don't care. My credibility in real life is not affected.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Er, if Sidious drains him of all his power, he dies lol.
Unlikely.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Funnily enough, Revan didn't drain Meetra of all her power.
A spirit can be drained like a living being but the word is not applicable to it. Vitiate have siphoned energy of spirits for centuries but these spirits did not perish. Your point is flawed.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
To bad DE Sidious isn't a spirit.
Really?

Originally posted by Beniboybling
I'm talking about those he possessed lol, he tries and fails to kill the protag many times, then gives up and pretends him wants you around.
These conflicts took place with use of possessed hosts that were not strong enough to stop the protagonists. Possessed hosts are not strong like a Voice.

More importantly, Vitiate's ability to eliminate them with his own powers should not be in doubt. The protagonists would not have survived the cataclysmic event on planet Ziost if they had been on the ground while it happened.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
And though the monoliths apparently can't die, they still couldn't kill the protags...

Guess they have limits, who could have guessed?
PIS.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Whether these powers will be effective against Vitiate or not, remains to be seen. However, Vitiate is not likely to give opposition a chance at undermining him in a direct confrontation. He can attack too, you know.So you admit you have no proof Vitiate is immune to Force Light and Wall of Light powers? Noted.Your point being? Power doesn't make him different, it just means more power is required to beat him.Neither did Exar Kun.
Exar Kun bro.
I recognised Exar Kun as an artificial spirit too, yet he was vulnerable to Wall of Light and Force Light powers, so what's your point?
Again, prove it.Because he didn't appear before them, again they have let to get a fix on his location.Then you won't mind if I share with everyone your opinions on, as you call it, "gay-ism":

Humans came up with the norms of right and wrong (moral code) and outcome was an advanced civilization. It was better for humans to differentiate themselves from wild animals.

Now, thanks to this legislation, we are heading back towards the era of barbarism and bestiality. I suppose, pro-incest movement would be next.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=15274644#post15274644

Read for some lols, it gets richer with every page
Why?Spirits who were housed in the Dark Temple, a nexus of dark side energy. Yes.So Vitiate's ability to empower those he possesses has limits? I guess his power isn't immeasurable after all.

You're embarrassing yourself.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
An animal cannot give consent, neither refuse. Ever seen animal porn?


LMAO

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Marriage between males and females is most productive for a human society. Enabling other forms of marriages may result in reduction of heterosexuality and their would be additional implications that are not generally accounted for.

BAHAHAHAH oh man.

Golden. Pure f***ing gold.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Then you won't mind if I share with everyone your opinions on, as you call it, "gay-ism":

Humans came up with the norms of right and wrong (moral code) and outcome was an advanced civilization. It was better for humans to differentiate themselves from wild animals.

Now, thanks to this legislation, we are heading back towards the era of barbarism and bestiality. I suppose, pro-incest movement would be next.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=15274644#post15274644

Read for some lols, it gets richer with every page
Political, religious and ideological beliefs are irrelevant in this thread.

I live in a country where marriage between wife and husband is acceptable and other forms of marriage are not recognized due to religious principles. And people here (including me) are OK with this. I am not judged and ridiculed for my political, religious, and ideological beliefs where I live, which is really good.

You live in a country of different values and whatever happens there is not my concern. I joined the debate but left it because my views were not welcome there. So you should discuss Star Wars in this section and leave political, religious, and ideological matters to sections where such discussions belong.

We are not here to judge each other's character and principles, but to discuss our favorite topics. Otherwise, ignore function will be considered.

In short, stick to the topic.

My apologies LeGend, I hope nobody will think you anymore stupid/ignorant/bigoted/intolerant as a result of this. http://r35.imgfast.net/users/3513/11/32/39/smiles/2570579909.png

lawl

Legend utterly humiliating himself.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
My apologies LeGend, I hope nobody will think you anymore stupid/ignorant/bigoted/intolerant as a result of this. http://r35.imgfast.net/users/3513/11/32/39/smiles/2570579909.png
Spare me your sarcasm. I am buying it.

People from different backgrounds and countries post in this forum. The entire world is not supposed to adhere to American values. I find homosexuality disgusting but I am not waging a Jihad against it. There are millions (possibly over a billion) who find homosexuality disgusting due to personal and faith-related reasons.

Some questions:

Q 1. Would you negatively judge a Buddhist for being one?
Q 2. Would you negatively judge a Hindu for being one?
Q 3. Would you negatively judge a Muslim for being one?
Q 4. Would you negatively judge a Jew for being one?
Q 5. Would you negatively judge a Christian for being one"?

I have noticed that Americans tend to be arrogant, judgmental freaks and also have "superiority complex." I think that these traits run in the politics as well, therefore so many political blunders in recent times. Americans should learn to respect other beliefs and stop being judgmental and arrogant pricks.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Legend utterly humiliating himself.
You better keep your history of being a liar and fabricator in mind. To refresh your memory: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f6/t607216.html

I think you probably mean "inferiority complex."

You're upset again tonight, aren't you Legend.

Originally posted by Trocity
I think you probably mean "inferiority complex."

You're upset again tonight, aren't you Legend?
No, "superiority complex." Americans tend to have it. They think that they are champion of human-rights and have superior beliefs and values. In reality, they have extreme double-standards, killers of huge number of innocent people and one of the most immoral nations in existence.

You typed your message, then sat and stewed for a few minutes in your bitterness before adding your "In reality..." sentence in an edit.

Tell me more, Legend. How upset does this make you? The big bad United States and their "superiority" complex.

Originally posted by Trocity
You typed your message, then sat and stewed for a few minutes in your bitterness before adding your "In reality..." sentence in an edit.

Tell me more, Legend. How upset does this make you? The big bad United States and their "superiority" complex.
That pause was due to load-shedding.

I am not upset, I am pointing out the fact that Americans are far from perfect themselves and should not try to negatively judge others for their beliefs.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
The pause was a result of loadshedding.

TMI


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Americans are from perfect

I caught this before you edited.

America appreciates how you truly feel.

Guys keep this Star Wars, anything else should be taken to PMs or the GD section, Other wise a Mod will likely close this.(one warned that he'd close and ban peeps in the SWR section.)

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
No, "superiority complex." Americans tend to have it. They think that they are champion of human-rights and have superior beliefs and values. In reality, they have extreme double-standards, killers of huge number of innocent people and one of the most immoral nations in existence.


While I dislike you and you have shown me that your Star Wars knowledge is all backwards I must say you are both right and wrong. We Americans are proud people that is why we have acheived the rank in the world we currently have today. We acheived the most powerful and wealthiest nation in the world. As per GDP. We have accepted all religions and many different things. This is shown by America is so diversified in religions and cultures. Why do you think we get involved in everyone's business. For instance the earthquake in Hati, we donated money to help them out. We support many different other countries such as South Korea for how many years now? In reality we are people who will do whatever it takes to protect our nation. You make us sound like we are the only nation that has ever done that. Whatever nation you have no doubt has some history of a mass genocide. Immoral. You cal, freedom to say whatever you want, print whatever you want, hold firearms, have whatever religion you want, trying to provide universal health care for our people immoral?

Also if you mean we think we are better than everyone it all depends on which way. Do you mean economically, militarily, etc.

Always so damn nice and reasonable, aren't you Fated.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I have noticed that Americans tend to be arrogant, judgmental freaks and also have "superiority complex." I think that these traits run in the politics as well, therefore so many political blunders in recent times. Americans should learn to respect other beliefs and stop being judgmental and arrogant pricks.Noted, but I am not American.

But may I ask what land of respect and tolerance it is that you come from?

Anyway, responded to your points in the relevant thread

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=15277524#post15277524

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
While I dislike you

lol What a great way to start off a post.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You better keep your history of being a liar and fabricator in mind. To refresh your memory: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f6/t607216.html

So your answer to your own humiliation is to link to yet further humiliation of yourself?

Originally posted by AncientPower
So your answer to your own humiliation is to link to yet further humiliation of yourself?
My IQ score is above 100.

I read part of that and I saw that you were being hypocritical. Caedus himself admits that only Katarn is a true threat and even then he easily outclass pes him. The narrator admits that the Jedi combined are no match for Caedus. Jaina also admits she is below Caedus. Caedus is in every since of the word powerful. He is no doubt one of the most Sith to ever live. Thinking otherwise is idiotic.

You are hypocritical due to how you boast vitiate being basically all god like powerful and how you put him above Sidious and even worse above Luke Skywalker and then even worse how you say he is own the level with beings like the ones when he is clearly beaten or outclassed by. Vitiate is powerful for sure. But he is not on the scale of power you imagine him to be on. He isn't greater than yoda most likely, he definitly isn't greater than Sidious, he certainly is not on level with Luke Skywalker, and is completely outclassed by beings like the Ones.

Bump. Stops at Exar Kun.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
My IQ score is above 100.

Nice, you're not retarded.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Nice, you're not retarded.

I wouldn't go that far.

Clears with ease until Sheev

Falls at Yoda.

Falls to Yoda.

Does Yoda know Force Light or Wall of Light?

He does.

Proof?

Beldorion claims that he was one of the three great Jedi Masters who could produce Force Light in Planet of Twilight, IIRC. The other two were Thon and Nomi Sunrider.

There's also the fact that he's canonically the most knowledgable Jedi of his time, which includes beings like Yaddle(someone as knowledgable as Odan Urr, who knows every Force Technique in the Jedi Temple Archives) and K'kruhk(someone who has been stated as knowing Force Light and Severe Force).

Prolly Yoda, yeah.

Yeah, fair enough