Revan, Revan, and Revan run a gauntlet.

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Vixas
So then, without further ado, Darth Revan (feats prior to KOTOR 1), Revan Reborn (From the "Revan" novel and Foundry Flashpoint), and "Dark" Revan (From Shadow of Revan) run a gauntlet. They are rejuvenated between each round and they, as well as their opponents, are in the prime of their respective form/phase.

Warm-Up: Warb Null, Darth Nihl, Darth Talon.

Stage 1: Kit Fisto, Agen Kolar, Saesee Tiin
Stage 2: Darth Bane (Non-Orbalisk), Darth Malgus (As of FE), RotS Palpatine
Stage 3: Mace Windu, RoTS Anakin, Oppo Rancisis
Stage 4: Darth Krayt, Count Dooku, Inquisitor Jerec
Stage 5: Yoda, RotJ Luke, Obi-Wan Kenobi

I don't believe there is much more for me to say then I hope you enjoy. smile

Sinious
They get stomped in Round 2.

Vixas
Originally posted by Sinious
They get stomped in Round 2.

Just to clarify: By "Darth Bane" I am in-fact counting him outside of his Orbalisk Armor. As it seems people on here are fond of calling that "form" Orbalisk Bane. Apologies for the in-clarity if there was any.

Sinious
Palpatine is the key name there.

Emperordmb
The Revans shit on the warm-up round and round one, but die pretty badly to round 2.

carthage
Originally posted by Emperordmb
The Revans shit on the warm-up round and round one, but die pretty badly to round 2.

Not because of Bane though

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by Sinious
They get stomped in Round 2.
They don't get "stomped," lmfao, but they lose - yeah.

I sense Vixas is a Revan fan though... I shall mold him into my prodigy.

Sinious
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
They don't get "stomped," lmfao, but they lose - yeah.

ROTS Sidious vs SoR Revan would end with a semi-stomp. Everything after that is a slaughter.

carthage
Actually they might have a shot if SOR Revan can oneshot Bane

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by Sinious
ROTS Sidious vs SoR Revan would end with a semi-stomp. Everything after that is a slaughter.
All the Revan's can individually hold their own against Sidious.

They can't win, but they can stall tbh. It would be a good fight.

Sinious
You said some stupid s*** in the past but this tops all tbh laughing out loud

Vixas
(@Carthage: Oh I am aware xD Believe me. I just happened to catch myself with a needed clarification.)

I see. Then I pose a question to every who has answered thus far. Most notably DarthAnt in this instance and Ancient power should he comment. As the two of you expressed in my earlier thread that you believed SoR Revan in his Prime was above Vader in RotJ. Which was stated, I believe, that Vader by RotJ was 80% of Sidious' strength as of RotJ. Whether or not one believes Sidious stronger in RotS, the quote, or if I remember it from an unofficial source... is beyond me. Just thought I would raise the point as no-one has really "argued" the contrary. Not saying I particularly disagree, but I do feel the need as the OP to argue for a "side" if I feel there is one that could be made, and none have done so.

Edit: The question being: Could SoR Revan distract/hold-off Sidious long enough for the other incarnations to defeat Malgus and Bane? Or could they even defeat Malgus and Bane? (I have an opinion on this but I am posing the question for the sake of posing it)

DarthAnt66
> Revan goes toe-to-toe with eight man strike teams of the most powerful beings in the galaxy.
> Some still think he would get beaten by Palpatine in seconds. Can't expect much more from Sinious.

Sinious
He is still inferior to Sidious in the force by a margin and is heavily outclassed in sabers both speed and skill wise.

But that's not what I was I was laughing at. You seriously believe pre-KOTOR Revan could hold his own against Sidious and that is ridiculous.

Sinious
Originally posted by Vixas
Which was stated, I believe, that Vader by RotJ was 80% of Sidious' strength as of RotJ. Even if we are to take that quote seriously, then it should be interpreted as %20 difference is a big deal in SW Universe considering how easily Sidious can take out Vader and how much more powerful he is.

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by Sinious
He is still inferior to Sidious in the force by a margin and is heavily outclassed in sabers both speed and skill wise.

But that's not what I was I was laughing at. You seriously believe pre-KOTOR Revan could hold his own against Sidious and that is ridiculous.
That doesn't mean he can't compete. The main thing Sidious has over Revan is a quite large speed advantage, but Revan's keeping up with eight man strike teams which would have lightsaber attacks, blaster fire, and explosions from all directions pretty much constantly. Like I said, he's obviously outclassed, but that doesn't mean he can't hold his own.

Originally posted by Sinious
You seriously believe pre-KOTOR Revan could hold his own against Sidious and that is ridiculous.

I have Darth Revan perhaps more powerful than KotOR Revan. It's not my fault you don't respect a character who can defeat Kreia and the Exile at the same time.

Vixas
Originally posted by Sinious
Even if we are to take that quote seriously, then it should be interpreted as %20 difference is a big deal in SW Universe considering how easily Sidious can take out Vader and how much more powerful he is.

Oh indeed. I have no illusions of SoR Revan defeating Sidious, however. Vader DID tank Sidious' lightning for a few moments and even then he lived being dragged to the hangar through the Death Star by his son. (And then died most likely due to his suit failing) While Revan is no slouch when it comes to pain threshold. Ala: His scene of resisting Vitiate's own lightning and not relenting even as it began to melt his mask to his face.

ChaosTheory123
Originally posted by Vixas
Which was stated, I believe, that Vader by RotJ was 80% of Sidious' strength as of RotJ.

Yes, yes

And Farmer with Shotgun in Dragon Ball can destroy continents with his gun because power levels are clearly on a linear scale

Its a cute accolade, but worthless without being given other measures for ****ers in terms of Sidious' power

Vixas
Ah and @DarthAnt I am indeed a fan, but not in the vein you are. Revan is like John Cena for Star Wars: Is he good? Yes. Is he one of the best in the franchise? Most likely. Are there people who adore him FAR more than they should, and over-hype him to the ends of the Earth? Undoubtedly. Now, are there ALSO people who put him down to dirt-level in reaction to those said people? You bet.

I take a middle-ground approach when it comes to Revan, and this thread is largely to gauge where I shall actually place him in my own list of most powerful. Though I harbor a vague idea of where he sits, others' opinions are always welcome.

@Chaos Theory: I would direct one such as yourself to my above post of Vader not instantly dying to Sidious' lightning. While Revan would also have experience dealing with VERY powerful lightning with a very well-honed Tutaminis skill. However I suppose this is a moot point if you believe RotJ Vader > SoR Revan.

DarthAnt66
Most people put him slightly above Vader, tbh.

carthage
Originally posted by Vixas
(@Carthage: Oh I am aware xD Believe me. I just happened to catch myself with a needed clarification.)



Edit: The question being: Could SoR Revan distract/hold-off Sidious long enough for the other incarnations to defeat Malgus and Bane? Or could they even defeat Malgus and Bane? (I have an opinion on this but I am posing the question for the sake of posing it)

Depending how much stock you put into him holding off strike teams its possible. Bane without an amp isn't as powerful as a force user as any incarnation of Revan. Assuming Revan Reborn can ragdoll him immediately Malgus isn't taking on two Revans. Bane is a very large weak link unless he's got a nexus and orbalisks

ChaosTheory123
Originally posted by Vixas
@Chaos Theory: I would direct one such as yourself to my above post of Vader not instantly dying to Sidious' lightning. While Revan would also have experience dealing with VERY powerful lightning with a very well-honed Tutaminis skill. However I suppose this is a moot point if you believe RotJ Vader > SoR Revan.

Only really posting to point out linear power levels are garbage

Just lurking and bored otherwise

Have no real opinion on how KMC conducts debate in general seeing as I come from an entirely different school of thought on fictional character battles

Vixas
Originally posted by ChaosTheory123
Only really posting to point out linear power levels are garbage

Just lurking and bored otherwise

Have no real opinion on how KMC conducts debate in general seeing as I come from an entirely different school of thought on fictional character battles

That I can largely agree with. I only hearken to such a quote explicitly for the use of the feat of Vader surviving Sidious' lightning for longer than a breathe, and then some. While Revan has equally impressive toughness feats and a higher developed Tutaminis ability.

Sinious
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
That doesn't mean he can't compete. The main thing Sidious has over Revan is a quite large speed advantage, but Revan's keeping up with eight man strike teams which would have lightsaber attacks, blaster fire, and explosions from all directions pretty much constantly. Like I said, he's obviously outclassed, but that doesn't mean he can't hold his own. I'm not saying he gets one-shot but to suggest that he could hold his own for enough time to call it decent stalling is delusional. ROTS Sidious' lightning is AT LEAST as powerful as Novel Vitiate's and novel Vitiate managed to take Revan out with a single attack the moment he went all out on him. Now I know Revan increased in power by a margin after that but not enough to keep up with Sidious' lightning for that long. Revan's only hope was to close the gap and in this case, he would be in an even more disadvantageous position if the gap between them is closed. Also, while Sidious despises lightsaber duels, he also doesn't hesitate to engage in them in the earlier parts of his fights. So he could very well choose to dive into it right away and Revan wouldn't be powerful enough to hold him back with the force. So I guess how long it would take for Sidious to defeat Revan would depend on how Sidious engages Revan.



I actually heard that from you and used it against Selenial in another debate. Her response was something like "the source of that claim has also said extremely stupid things like Nihilus would drain Revan if they fought but Revan would quickly gather his strength and defeat him after." It was something like that at least. I always wondered what your response would be to that.

Sinious
Originally posted by Vixas
Oh indeed. I have no illusions of SoR Revan defeating Sidious, however. Vader DID tank Sidious' lightning for a few moments and even then he lived being dragged to the hangar through the Death Star by his son. (And then died most likely due to his suit failing) While Revan is no slouch when it comes to pain threshold. Ala: His scene of resisting Vitiate's own lightning and not relenting even as it began to melt his mask to his face. Why do you think Sidious was going all out there?

Revan was completely overwhelmed and incapacitated there. It was him surviving Vitiate's lightning, not resisting it.

ChaosTheory123
Originally posted by Sinious

Revan was completely overwhelmed and incapacitated there. It was him surviving Vitiate's lightning, not resisting it.

If there wasn't rough parity between Revan's power and Vitiate's Lightning he'd have been reduced to ashes like Nyriss was just chapters prior FYI

It's frankly Revan's best showing of Tutaminis, even if he did get badly burned.

DarthAnt66
I would think the majority disagrees with you there.


Except it isn't even remotely close.


You mean after Vitiate charged up and Revan couldn't stop him because there was a 120 foot gap between them?


He can if he keeps Sidious occupied and the distance close enough that such massive Force Lightning Storms won't be taken into the equation.

Even if they are, Revan can handle them. Palpatine's lightning isn't greater than Vitiate's.


According to you. Like I said, if Revan can hold his own against eight-man strike teams in close corners, he can hold his own against Palpatine in close corners. thumb up

Vixas
Originally posted by Sinious
Why do you think Sidious was going all out there?

Revan was completely overwhelmed and incapacitated there. It was him surviving Vitiate's lightning, not resisting it.

To be frank? (And I re-watched the scene to clarify as memory is a faulty thing)

Luke is wearing nothing but a turtleneck and being shocked by what is obviously Sidious' equivalent of a lightning backhand. No bones showing. Even if there were Vader has much more going for him in the armor department than a turtleneck. (So much so I won't even make a joke) Yet when he lifts Sidious and the lightning strikes him, we see skeletal structure. Regardless of whether scientifically possible or not, whether or not it is Sidious' MAX is debatable, and to think he would use something MORE against Revan who is likely unknown to him, than Vader who he KNOWS is destined to destroy the Sith, has just lifted him away from shocking his son, and is carrying him toward the giant pit in his throne room he knows is there.... (Not exactly saying he KNEW Vader would throw him down it beforehand, but you get the idea) Is a bit of a stretch. Likely due to Palps personality I think he would toy with Revan at first, only for his least powerful lightning to be stopped. This, along with seeing Bane and Malgus in trouble, would make him resort to his more powerful lightning. Is it likely Revan dies? So-So. His healing is shown to be very effective.

Then it becomes a question of Sidious VS Darth Revan and "The Revan who did not just take one for the team" As I see both Revan Reborn and SoR Revan being capable of doing this. Most likely Revan Reborn though.

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by Sinious
I actually heard that from you and used it against Selenial in another debate. Her response was something like "the source of that claim has also said extremely stupid things like Nihilus would drain Revan if they fought but Revan would quickly gather his strength and defeat him after." It was something like that at least. I always wondered what your response would be to that.

It's from Chris Avellone - the guy who designed Kreia and the Exile in the first place. And nah, he says the Exile might be able to briefly slow down Revan with a Force Deafening move (an attempt at Sever Force, I guess), but "even that won't keep Revan down for long" - meaning it would be ineffective, perhaps due to the power disparity, and he would then go on to "kick the Exile's ass." thumb up

Sinious
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
It's from Chris Avellone - the guy who designed Kreia and the Exile in the first place. And nah, he says the Exile might be able to briefly slow down Revan with a Force Deafening move (an attempt at Sever Force, I guess), but "even that won't keep Revan down for long" - meaning it would be ineffective, perhaps due to the power disparity, and he would then go on to "kick the Exile's ass." thumb up
I know who it is from. Sel's point was that his analysis of how the Revan vs Nihilus fight would go is so retarded that anything else he says about these matters should be avoided.

Originally posted by Vixas
To be frank? (And I re-watched the scene to clarify as memory is a faulty thing)

Luke is wearing nothing but a turtleneck and being shocked by what is obviously Sidious' equivalent of a lightning backhand. No bones showing. Even if there were Vader has much more going for him in the armor department than a turtleneck. (So much so I won't even make a joke) Yet when he lifts Sidious and the lightning strikes him, we see skeletal structure. Regardless of whether scientifically possible or not, whether or not it is Sidious' MAX is debatable, and to think he would use something MORE against Revan who is likely unknown to him, than Vader who he KNOWS is destined to destroy the Sith, has just lifted him away from shocking his son, and is carrying him toward the giant pit in his throne room he knows is there.... (Not exactly saying he KNEW Vader would throw him down it beforehand, but you get the idea) Is a bit of a stretch. Likely due to Palps personality I think he would toy with Revan at first, only for his least powerful lightning to be stopped. This, along with seeing Bane and Malgus in trouble, would make him resort to his more powerful lightning. Is it likely Revan dies? So-So. His healing is shown to be very effective.

Then it becomes a question of Sidious VS Darth Revan and "The Revan who did not just take one for the team" As I see both Revan Reborn and SoR Revan being capable of doing this. Most likely Revan Reborn though. Well Sidious' lightning has taken out Galen Marek(who defeated Vader) instantly. He also easily shocked Vader in TFU 2 Expansion.
Originally posted by ChaosTheory123
If there wasn't rough parity between Revan's power and Vitiate's Lightning he'd have been reduced to ashes like Nyriss was just chapters prior FYI

It's frankly Revan's best showing of Tutaminis, even if he did get badly burned. Says who? Revan was instantly overwhelmed. If there were some brief exchange of energies like Talzin-Sidious, I'd be inclined to agree but not in this case.

DarthAnt66
There was never an analysis of Revan vs Nihilus.

Selenial is just upset that Revan is confirmed to be >>>> her.

I'm going to head to bed though. I'll respond to shit tomorrow.

ChaosTheory123
Originally posted by Sinious
Says who?

Says the lack of human ashes and rather piddling level of energy it actually takes to burn a person in comparison.

So... high school physics

Revan fails to negate to majority of the energy?

His body becomes a nice pile of dust.

Vixas
Honestly Sinious I believe that the reason it was not an exchange of energies is because Revan's skill in Force Lightning would be overshadowed by Vitiate's, and frankly if Revan's skill with Lighting was substituted for his skill in Tutaminis in that scene, more than likely it would have been an exchange much like Talzin - Sidi. With Revan as Talzin and Viti as Sidi.

*chuckles* As well as EVERYTHING Chaos said.

Sinious
Originally posted by DarthAnt66

I would think the majority disagrees with you there.


Revan's fight with Vitiate disagrees with the majority.


Even Legend would disagree. laughing
How'd you figure the distance was 120 foot long?

That distance would lead to a lightsaber duel. Revan won't really be in control of the force fight anyway so I doubt he could manage to keep the optimal distance anyway.



That's a pretty weak argument don't you think? I unlike most people don't believe Revan is trash when it comes to dueling but he is facing possibly the best duelist in the mythos.

Vixas
Oh and another quick point Sinious, if you are referring to the scene where Galen goes Dark Side and Sidious shocks him into the ground and leaves him incapacitated... I'm not saying the same woudln't happen to Revan if he took Sidi's lightning like that. What I am saying is Revan possesses the power, skill, knowledge and toughness to avoid getting to that point.

If not... then please tell me the scene. If you are referring to the light-side ending that actually serves to discredit Sidious as I feel I could safely say Galen's SKILL with Tutaminis is below Revan's and he has an obligatory show of power at the end before he dies stopping Sidious' lightning.

Sinious
Originally posted by ChaosTheory123
Says the lack of human ashes and rather piddling level of energy it actually takes to burn a person in comparison.

So... high school physics

Revan fails to negate to majority of the energy?

His body becomes a nice pile of dust.

I meant that who says Revan had to turn into ash for there to be a gap in power between them? Getting instantly overwhelmed is enough.

Originally posted by Vixas
Honestly Sinious I believe that the reason it was not an exchange of energies is because Revan's skill in Force Lightning would be overshadowed by Vitiate's, and frankly if Revan's skill with Lighting was substituted for his skill in Tutaminis in that scene, more than likely it would have been an exchange much like Talzin - Sidi. With Revan as Talzin and Viti as Sidi.

*chuckles* As well as EVERYTHING Chaos said.
Revan could still hold his ground for at least a short while with his tutaminis. Perhaps the Talzin-Sidious example wasn't the one I was looking for. Change that to Sidious and Yoda. Because they are about equals in the force, that interaction ended with a stalemate. If Vitiate wasn't more powerful than Revan by a big margin, we would see something at least similar to that fight.

ChaosTheory123
Originally posted by Sinious
I meant that who says Revan had to turn into ash for there to be a gap in power between them? Getting instantly overwhelmed is enough.


So

Nyriss' remains would like to demonstrate how poorly it'd go for the human body to be hit by Force Lightning far weaker than Vitiate's

You know

The pile of ashes

From a feat of Force Lightning far weaker than Vitiate's

Revan through use of Tutaminis reduced that energy to severe burns, a far less energetic event for the human body in comparison to full on incineration.

This isn't exactly the most complex game of connect the dots dude

I mean, granted, maybe something's being lost here because I'm dead on my feet at almost 3 am, but... shit

Vixas
Originally posted by Sinious
I meant that who says Revan had to turn into ash for there to be a gap in power between them? Getting instantly overwhelmed is enough.


Revan could still hold his ground for at least a short while with his tutaminis. Perhaps the Talzin-Sidious example wasn't the one I was looking for. Change that to Sidious and Yoda. Because they are about equals in the force, that interaction ended with a stalemate. If Vitiate wasn't more powerful than Revan by a big margin, we would see something at least similar to that fight.

Ah! Well NOW I see your point and it is well-taken, and I see your logic there. However, I feel the scene between Yoda and Sidious was also largely due to their VERY, VERY close proximity to one-another as well as their clashing power. Honestly I also think the only reason Yoda "lost" that clash and went flying is due to his small stature, as Sidious flew back as well, but... well... larger object... moves less.

Sinious
Originally posted by Vixas
Oh and another quick point Sinious, if you are referring to the scene where Galen goes Dark Side and Sidious shocks him into the ground and leaves him incapacitated... I'm not saying the same woudln't happen to Revan if he took Sidi's lightning like that. What I am saying is Revan possesses the power, skill, knowledge and toughness to avoid getting to that point.

If not... then please tell me the scene. If you are referring to the light-side ending that actually serves to discredit Sidious as I feel I could safely say Galen's SKILL with Tutaminis is below Revan's and he has an obligatory show of power at the end before he dies stopping Sidious' lightning. Sidious was toying with Galen in the light side ending. In the dark side one, Galen didn't do anything wrong to put himself in that situation. Sidious unleashed his true power on him. I have Revan above Starkiller so I don't think he'd be taken out that easily but it also won't be THAT different. Also I gave the TFU example to compare it to the ending of ROTJ(Cause you mentioned it) as it is a far better demonstration of the disparity between Vader and Sidious.

Sinious
Originally posted by Vixas
Ah! Well NOW I see your point and it is well-taken, and I see your logic there. . thumb up That's why I said it was a stalemate though. So the falling down part doesn't really disprove my point. Getting insta-overwhelmed is enough to claim that Vitiate is a lot more powerful than Revan.

Vixas
Originally posted by Sinious
Sidious was toying with Galen in the light side ending. In the dark side one, Galen didn't do anything wrong to put himself in that situation. Sidious unleashed his true power on him. I have Revan above Starkiller so I don't think he'd be taken out that easily but it also won't be THAT different. Also I gave the TFU example to compare it to the ending of ROTJ(Cause you mentioned it) as it is a far better demonstration of the disparity between Vader and Sidious.

I hate to do this as it is a rather lazy answer but I am genuinely curious. DO you have proof, or a source that states Sidious was toying with him in the LS ending? Otherwise that would make it your opinion, and while POSSIBLE in that case, I don't believe it LIKELY.

As it is pointed out the ENTIRE reason for Vader training Galen was to make him the Jedi the Rebels would flock to, then he and they would die. So if not stated by an official source, saying that Sidious was toying around when Galen is stopping him from killing the Rebels, that have been his sole objective to eradicate in not only the game, but the coming movies, does not make much sense my friend.

ChaosTheory123
Sidious wasn't a corpse and looked unscathed after the Tutaminis/Force Lightning explosion caused by the now corpse Galen Marek

That's not enough for you?

Sinious
Originally posted by ChaosTheory123
So

Nyriss' remains would like to demonstrate how poorly it'd go for the human body to be hit by Force Lightning far weaker than Vitiate's

You know

The pile of ashes

From a feat of Force Lightning far weaker than Vitiate's

Revan through use of Tutaminis reduced that energy to severe burns, a far less energetic event for the human body in comparison to full on incineration.

This isn't exactly the most complex game of connect the dots dude

I mean, granted, maybe something's being lost here because I'm dead on my feet at almost 3 am, but... shit I don't ever remember saying something like the distance between Vitiate and Revan is as big as Revan and Nyriss. The gap is big enough for Vitiate to insta-overwhelm him though.

Vixas
Anyways the Galen thing can wait, my point being I think Yoda and Revan are comparable in their skill in Tutaminis. While power behind it is obviously debatable, I hesitate to say Revan could duplicate Yoda's feat without some SERIOUS backing by well-formed arguments. My point now mirroring yours on the opposite side of the coin. You believe Revan will not die instantly, I believe he will not die instantly, but we differ in wheather or not he lasts long enough for the others to defeat Bane and Malgus..... which... at this point I don't think Malgus and Bane losing to the other two is a question, like Revan VS Sidious, of not IF.. but WHEN. Could Revan Reborn last long enough for SoR Revan and Darth Revan to defeat Bane and Malgus?

ChaosTheory123
Originally posted by Sinious
I don't ever remember saying something like the distance between Vitiate and Revan is as big as Revan and Nyriss. The gap is big enough for Vitiate to insta-overwhelm him though.

And instantly overwhelming him doesn't require a large gap as evidenced by how little energy it takes to burn a ****er's skin compared to reducing them to ashes

I get that physics isn't the strong suit of this forum, but this comparison isn't exactly advanced thermodynamics

This is a brief google search and general background knowledge from high school classes I slept through every other one of.

Full on incineration takes hundreds of mejajoules to gigajoules

Burns?

You're talking hundreds/thousands of times weaker.

And that's just assuming baseline incineration

Vixas
Originally posted by ChaosTheory123
Sidious wasn't a corpse and looked unscathed after the Tutaminis/Force Lightning explosion caused by the now corpse Galen Marek

That's not enough for you?

Sorry is this directed at me?

ChaosTheory123
Originally posted by Vixas
Sorry is this directed at me?

Yes

Seems pretty clear by who's not dead and not looking worse for the wear how hard Sidious was actually trying

Sinious
Originally posted by Vixas
I hate to do this as it is a rather lazy answer but I am genuinely curious. DO you have proof, or a source that states Sidious was toying with him in the LS ending? Otherwise that would make it your opinion, and while POSSIBLE in that case, I don't believe it LIKELY.

As it is pointed out the ENTIRE reason for Vader training Galen was to make him the Jedi the Rebels would flock to, then he and they would die. So if not stated by an official source, saying that Sidious was toying around when Galen is stopping him from killing the Rebels, that have been his sole objective to eradicate in not only the game, but the coming movies, does not make much sense my friend.

As stated above, Sidious was never in danger and didn't even get hurt even when Galen went all oneness on him. Also, since he easily takes out Starkiller in DS Ending, the common interpretation of SK defeating Sidious in the LS Ending is that Sidious was toying with him so that he could turn him to his apprentice and replace Vader. The dialogue itself also suggests as much.

Vixas
Originally posted by ChaosTheory123
Yes

Seems pretty clear by who's not dead and not looking worse for the wear how hard Sidious was actually trying

Actually if you are arguing for Sidious having NOT been trying then... your last statement kinda works against you. What does Sidious NOT trying entail?

It makes it more likely for Galen to match him, and also to obviously HURT him, and for Galen to survive the clash himself. The fact that Sidious comes away in a "meh" attitude, and STILL angry the Rebels escaped mind you, (so if he WAS toying around then it's his own fault, which makes no sense for the mastermind of Order 66) as well as being unscathed, hints that he went all-out to try and crush Galen quickly and prevent the Rebels' escape.

Edit: @Sinious: Ah well yes I know that much. I am talking about their clash of abilities when Galen dies. Not the "fight" itself.

Sinious
Originally posted by ChaosTheory123
And instantly overwhelming him doesn't require a large gap as evidenced by how little energy it takes to burn a ****er's skin compared to reducing them to ashes

I get that physics isn't the strong suit of this forum, but this comparison isn't exactly advanced thermodynamics

This is a brief google search and general background knowledge from high school classes I slept through every other one of.

Full on incineration takes hundreds of mejajoules to gigajoules

Burns?

You're talking hundreds/thousands of times weaker.

And that's just assuming baseline incineration

That's actually a pretty weak logic. The difference between ashing a person and just burning their skin is irrelevant since the tutaminis that filters the effect of lightning determines how much of it is gonna harm the body. Revan already deflected a lightning attack that was powerful enough to ash human bodies. Him being able to do the same against Vitiate is irrelevant as we don't know how much more powerful Vitiate's lightning is compared to Nyriss' lightning and knowing that wouldn't really answer any questions related to the discussion at hand.

This has nothing to do with physics, simply common sense and an average ability to do comparison. In SW Universe, instantly over-whelming a character with one attack is an indication of a big disparity. Nothing indicates that Sidious can ash Dooku with his lightning for example, but that doesn't mean he can't stomp him with it. Its quite simple tbh.

ChaosTheory123
He ate an explosion containing several seconds worth of his own Lightning, one of his greatest offensive force powers, and comes out unscathed from an explosion induced from that same ball of energy containing that entire burst of Force Lightning

His lack of injury is indicative of the fact he held back a ****ton seeing as a quick burst of his Lightning at full power alone should be more than enough to injure him.

Sure as **** left Yoda steaming in RotS

Vixas
Anyways, I am sorry, the Galen thing is derailing the focus of the thread. I think we can all agree Revan lasts a bit against Sidious yes? Not instant death? So I post the next question to be answered again....

Is the time enough for the other two to defeat Malgus and Bane? (As it does not seem to be a doubt in anyone's mind Malgus and Bane will lose to the other two...)

Sinious
Originally posted by Vixas
Anyways, I am sorry, the Galen thing is derailing the focus of the thread. I think we can all agree Revan lasts a bit against Sidious yes? Not instant death? So I post the next question to be answered again....



No, it wouldn't be an instant death as SoR Revan is more powerful than the novel Revan. It'll still be a short fight though.

The only reason people think the Revans win is because there is a major trolling going on against Bane and characters from his era but even if the Revans would win, it would take a lot more time for it to end than the Sidious vs SoR Revan fight as even DarthAnt admits that the Revan trio loses the fight.

ChaosTheory123
Originally posted by Sinious
That's actually a pretty weak logic.

The cognitive dissonance is kind of painful this sleep deprived, not going to lie dude



The sheer nothing you said here is kind of beautiful in its own fashion

Tutaminis is the power of Absorb/Negate/Deflect Energy.

The difference between reducing a ****er to ashes and only receiving burns is entirely due to the fact he negated/absorbed some large portion of said energy.

This isn't terribly difficult to follow.



Indeed



Kind of baffled how this is hard for you to follow

Revan vs Nyriss = 100% Negation

Revan vs Vitiate? We don't need to know how much more powerful it is.

All you need is the ratio between baseline incineration and burns to establish a low end.

Anything after that is cake that paints Revan's power as a larger fraction of Vitiate's.




It has everything to do with physics if you're trying to determine how impressive a given feat is

If you don't have a standardized means to evaluate how great a given feat is, you're just spewing off you're own opinion... making this already frivolous hobby an even larger waste of time

If you don't want objective debate, you're better off just gushing about how strong a given character is in a fan appreciation thread.



He could if you guys actually knew how to play some connect the dots

You're a more casual board, I get that, but you're better off telling me you agree to disagree than just feeding me this half assed rebuttal dude.

Sinious
Originally posted by ChaosTheory123
The cognitive dissonance is kind of painful this sleep deprived, not going to lie dude





Kinda in the same situation here.

And I never denied that but it has nothing to do with what we are discussing here. Revan has already reflected lightning that is powerful enough to ash people, doing that again has no meaning. No one can deny that his tutaminis is great but the fact that Vitiate's lightning was even greater(to an extend where he can one-shot him) only means that he is much more powerful. Now that is not difficult to follow at all. erm

That ratio is connected to the ratio between Revan and Vitiate's power I understand that and the power difference between Nyriss and Vitiate could be compared via its effect on Revan but it doesn't prove that they(Vitiate and Revan) are close in power. I mean sure it means they're not like Ezra fighting the Son of Mortis but that was already obvious.


Again, completely irrelevant to the topic at hand. Revan being taken out completely is what matters here.



Educate me then, why is being able to avoid getting ashed by your enemy means being close to him in power and how could Sidious ash Dooku with lightning?

ChaosTheory123
Originally posted by Sinious
And I never denied that but it has nothing to do with what we are discussing here. Revan has already reflected lightning that is powerful enough to ash people, doing that again has no meaning.

You're kind of strawmanning the point of this discussion dude

We're discussing why Revan is a large fraction of Vitiate's Lightning's power

I'm able to establish a low end ratio by knowing low end human incineration vs just burning him

Nothing more, nothing less.



That's a simplistic view of feats, which is mostly born of only debating Star Wars as far as I can tell

Once you cut your teeth trying to compare between fiction, shit like this needs to be better scrutinized for a more objective analysis.

Like I mentioned earlier, I come from a different school of thought

The fan interpreted mechanics of the verse have to eat a dick if you're going to try comparing different verses objectively.



There's an objective yield required to burn and incinerate

We know Vitiate should have replicated the incineration had his attack stood unopposed with a Force power.

To establish a low end percentage of power Revan possesses of Vitiates lightning, you take baseline incineration, subtract severe burns yield from that, and divide by baseline incineration for how much power Revan had to negate not to be a pile of ashes.



And once more, that style of thinking is too simplistic for what I normally debate.

If you disagree, that's fair

Don't waste my time trying to offer a legitimate rebuttal that can only come out as half assed due to different rule sets though.



This is mostly shit born of normally comparing feats between fictions.

Energy takes vast magnitudes of difference to **** up different things

A building gets downed to hundreds of kg to tons of tnt

A city takes thousands to millions times that

Country about a trillion, etc

A few hundred million joules (human incineration) doesn't mean much later on if the feats both characters throw around can be counted in MOAB/FOAB/Nukes/Etc.

I'm vaguely aware that's probably too truncated to convey anything useful to you, but I'm basically about to pass out so...

Night :maybe

Vixas
Originally posted by Sinious
No, it wouldn't be an instant death as SoR Revan is more powerful than the novel Revan. It'll still be a short fight though.

The only reason people think the Revans win is because there is a major trolling going on against Bane and characters from his era but even if the Revans would win, it would take a lot more time for it to end than the Sidious vs SoR Revan fight as even DarthAnt admits that the Revan trio loses the fight.

Oh, I don't doubt they WILL lose. I'm just gauging where different people are placing Revan's forms as he is a rather polarizing, yet popularly debated, figure. That and even if I don't believe it the most likely outcome, I felt obligated to provide SOME form of debate as the OP.

Board Walker
SOR Revan > DE Sidious
Redeemed Revan > DE Sidious
Darth Revan > DE Sidious

Vitiate is far beyond anything that any incarnation of Sidious has ever displayed, the very fact that Revan is able to fight Vitiate and in some realities beat him demonstrates how far Revan is above Sidious.

To put it clearly Vitiate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DE sidious.

The combined storm this gauntlet with relative ease, they clear it.

AncientPower
TFU Sidious was casually shocking Galen with Force Lightning, Galen's attempt to Tutaminis this lightning resulted in him being tortured with blinding pain and caused him to slowly die and become one with the Force. This wasn't charged lightning nor was Sheev going all out and Galen was still being killed by it despite Tutaminis.

ROTS Sidious by the same token hit Yoda with an uncharged blast of lightning and Yoda could barely handle it whilst Sheev mocked him.

A charged all out burst of Sheev Palpatine grade electricity would kill Revan in due time.

Sinious
@ Chaos
Damn talk about being arrogant. Lets put number on things. If the required amount of energy to ash bodies is 100 units, then Nyriss' energy is <100 units and thats all we will ever know about her power matemathically. And if the required energy to burn skins is 30 units(just throwing numbers), then Vitiate's power - anything between 30 to 99 units would give us Revan's power but this whole logic would be useful if we knew how much energry Vitiate unleashed on Revan and we dont know that cause Vitiate didnt send the exact same amount needed for ashing people. He sent something that would Overwhelm Revan so in this case, Revan's tutaminis could very well be 500 units or something like 120 units since the only limitation it has is that it has to be more than Nyriss' energy and Nyriss energy has to be at least 100 units which means that Vitate's power could be something like 550(500+anything between 30 and 99) or 170(120 + 30 to 99) and the ratio of power in those two different cases is really different as being 170 to 120 is a much more significant power gap compared to 500 to 550 and we will never know where Vitiate and Revan stand mathematically. We only know that The power gap between them is big enough for Vitiate to take him out with one attack and that my friend had been my argument from yhe behinning. (sorry about thr shitty language skills, its quite late here as well and Im on my phone)

More importantly, this percantage thing isnt really that relevamt in SW universe. vader is %80 of Sidious but that doesnt stop Sidious from stomping him.

NewGuy01
Round 2 is the hardest round of the bunch; and the Revan's have pretty much no chance of passing it. thumb up

FreshestSlice
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I have Darth Revan perhaps more powerful than KotOR Revan. It's not my fault you don't respect a character who can defeat Kreia and the Exile at the same time.
Except for the part where Malak says he's more powerful in KotOR?

Anyway, Team goes down at 2.

Nephthys
Stage 2 is ridiculous.

appletonia
I'm not so sure that they even get beaten at stage 2, but then I really don't know all that much about Revan. But generally, a lot of people would argue that Revan's different incarnations are around the general level of the characters in that stage as far as I'm aware. Why are people so sure it's a stomp?

They easily get through every other stage though.

Fated Xtasy
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Except for the part where Malak says he's more powerful in KotOR?

Anyway, Team goes down at 2.

Eh, Ant mostly justifies that by saying "Oh what does Malak know? he's only been around Revan for duration of their stay in the Jedi Academy, the Mando wars and the Jedi Civil wars, like Malak knows anything pfffffffffffff"

Joking, obviously, I remember asking him about the Malak quote but the answer was something evasive and vague, so yeh.

ChaosTheory123
Originally posted by Sinious but this whole logic would be useful if we knew how much energry Vitiate unleashed on Revan and we dont know that cause Vitiate didnt send the exact same amount needed for ashing people.

He sent it in excess. Not sure what's so difficult to follow about establishing a low end when all you have to work with is bear minimum knowledge.

The omniscient 3rd person narrative more than notes Vitiate's Lightning is "infinitely" (obvious hyperbole, but works to suggest comparing Nyriss and Vitiate's attacks is a laughable endeavor) superior to Nyriss'

His attack had more than sufficient power to reduce Revan to ashes were he not to use a Force power to protect himself

He was only severely burnt instead.

Causing severe burns doesn't take much more than a fraction of the energy it takes to cause incineration.

As I noted previously, given how inexact this hobby is and how forums have different means of discerning shit, you're free to disagree.

My only aim is to see if you understand the point regardless of accord.



Not really how it works

The only meaningful gap that can exist between the power of Revan's Tutaminis and Vitiate's Lightning on a scale of energy is the amount of energy it takes to severely burn an unresisting human body

Knowing the exact amount of power either was pulling on holds no relevance to determining this much given actual present data



And as I've noted, that's far too simplistic to be an accurate model of the feat in question

Can being overwhelmed instantly mean the gulf in power of Revan's Tutaminis and Vitiate's Lightning is large?

Sure.

Do all the variables acting in the scene point to it with all known facts about the scene?

The difference between burning and incineration tells me no.



Don't worry about it.

Compared to the English of some people I've had to read, yours comes off as Shakespearean.



No

His power level is 80% of Sidious'

And unless you're about to argue Farmer with Shotgun can level continents in Dragon Ball for only being 1.5% of Post Raditz Fight Piccolo's power level?

Don't insult me and yourself by even pretending in universe power levels are operating on a linear scale.

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Except for the part where Malak says he's more powerful in KotOR?

Anyway, Team goes down at 2.
Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Eh, Ant mostly justifies that by saying "Oh what does Malak know? he's only been around Revan for duration of their stay in the Jedi Academy, the Mando wars and the Jedi Civil wars, like Malak knows anything pfffffffffffff"

Joking, obviously, I remember asking him about the Malak quote but the answer was something evasive and vague, so yeh.

I covered it in my The Power of Darth Revan (http://www.comicvine.com/profile/darthant66/blog/the-power-of-darth-revan-overview/103361/) thread:

This little snippet will be short, but since we were just talking about Darth Malak, I would like to clarify something. Many people feel the need to lowball Darth Revan since Darth Malak hypes that he is inferior to his Knights of the Old Republic incarnation. While I will not publicly take sides on my belief on who would win between the two Revan's, using Malak's quote as the basis of your argument is pathetic. And yes, I am referring to this:

"You are stronger than I thought; stronger than you ever were during your reign as the Dark Lord. I did not think that was possible."
―Darth Malak (Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic)

People fail to understand that, despite Darth Revan's power (as I highlighted above and will continue to extensively cover below), why Darth Malak saw him as "weak." Before you jump to baseless conclusions, allow me to elaborate why. Darth Revan knew the Star Forge was both a blessing and a curse. While Darth Malak wanted use the Star Forge's power to its fullest extent, Revan knew better. Darth Revan tried to limit his exposure to the Star Forge as much as possible, and only harnessed its power when needed. Why? Corruption of the Star Forge was eventually inevitable - which was made clear by the combined cautions of the Rakata and Ancient Sith Lords. Malak saw this logical decision by Revan as a weakness.

"You were a fool. All you saw was an enormous factory, all you ever imagined was an infinite fleet rolling forth to crush the Republic. You were blind, Revan - blind and stupid! The Star Forge is more than just a space station. In some ways, it is like a living creature. It hungers. And it can feed on the dark side that is within all of us!"
―Darth Malak (Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic)

Darth Malak also loathed Revan for his approach during the Jedi Civil War. Despite Revan's intentions to specifically keep infrastructures and worlds intact in preparation for the Sith Emperor's army, Malak preferred absolute destruction and chaos. Darth Revan sparing several key worlds that Darth Malak felt should have been destroyed did not sit nicely. Eventually, Malak's comments sparked a duel between the two that ended when Revan delivered a lightsaber strike to his apprentice that removed Malak's jaw. It is only logical that a man would hate the one who injured him the most. Also, please do not derail the thread by posting your rebuttals or feelings on this match in the comments below.

"The Republic conquest initially goes well, but in time, Malak ses Lord Revan as soft, resulting in a tension that culminates in a lightsaber duel; Malak loses his lower jaw to Revan's blade, necessitating a metallic jaw guard. Returning the favor, Malak fires on Revan's flagship. Unaware that the Jedi have captured the traitor, Malak assumes the crown of ruling Dark Lord, inheriting the empire."
―Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide

FreshestSlice
Considering it was in response to dismantling droids, and not some hypothetical about Revan having a brain, I'll respectfully disagree.

ChaosTheory123
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
While I will not publicly take sides on my belief on who would win between the two Revan's

This isn't a public forum? :hmm

Such a politician kiddo, saying one thing while doing another entirely :maybe

Sinious
Originally posted by ChaosTheory123
He sent it in excess. Not sure what's so difficult to follow about establishing a low end when all you have to work with is bear minimum knowledge.

The omniscient 3rd person narrative more than notes Vitiate's Lightning is "infinitely" (obvious hyperbole, but works to suggest comparing Nyriss and Vitiate's attacks is a laughable endeavor) superior to Nyriss'

His attack had more than sufficient power to reduce Revan to ashes were he not to use a Force power to protect himself

He was only severely burnt instead.

Causing severe burns doesn't take much more than a fraction of the energy it takes to cause incineration.

As I noted previously, given how inexact this hobby is and how forums have different means of discerning shit, you're free to disagree.

My only aim is to see if you understand the point regardless of accord.



Not really how it works

The only meaningful gap that can exist between the power of Revan's Tutaminis and Vitiate's Lightning on a scale of energy is the amount of energy it takes to severely burn an unresisting human body

Knowing the exact amount of power either was pulling on holds no relevance to determining this much given actual present data



And as I've noted, that's far too simplistic to be an accurate model of the feat in question

Can being overwhelmed instantly mean the gulf in power of Revan's Tutaminis and Vitiate's Lightning is large?

Sure.

Do all the variables acting in the scene point to it with all known facts about the scene?

The difference between burning and incineration tells me no.



Don't worry about it.

Compared to the English of some people I've had to read, yours comes off as Shakespearean.



No

His power level is 80% of Sidious'

And unless you're about to argue Farmer with Shotgun can level continents in Dragon Ball for only being 1.5% of Post Raditz Fight Piccolo's power level?

Don't insult me and yourself by even pretending in universe power levels are operating on a linear scale.

I'll let you know when I start getting DBZ references.

All that contradicts with showings from SW Universe. I understand what you are saying but there are different realities in SW Universe and therefor in SW debating as well. Its not because people are ignorant.


The Sidious/Vader example remains and so is my claim: SW power dynamics cannot be gauged mathematically. If you wanna insist on pursuing that line of though, then like you said lets agree to disagree. thumb up

appletonia
It's by no means official that Vader is 80% of Sidious. It was simply a very vague and casual estimation given by GL, not a considered declaration.

ChaosTheory123
Originally posted by Sinious
I'll let you know when I start getting DBZ references.

I'll summarize it for you

Farmer with Shotgun, a regular human, had a power level of 5.

Piccolo, with a power level of 329, violently detonated the moon.

A power level of 5 would roughly be 1.5% of Piccolo's power

Detonating the moon at baseline is about 29 exatons (290 times the meteor impact that helped kill the dinosaurs, and about 2 trillion times the nukes dropped on Japan)

Taking power levels as linear would mean the average human, Farmer with Shotgun can turn Australia into a crater, which is garbage.

Sorry the reference was obscure to you, figured I'd shoot for the most well known one :hmm



So I take it you like to just exclusively think about Star Wars vs?

Fair enough.



Sorry if it comes off as me calling you ignorant

Its half me just goading you or others into debate per my posting style and half me being terrible at interpersonal communication without being able to demonstrate emotes face to face.

Online you're monotone as ****, which kind of ****s me over given I'm an ******* to begin with. I try to be generally non-serious about it, but that's hard to convey on here :hmm



Not if you read my above example or the few dozen other fictions I can pull from to stomp power level nonsense into the dirt.



That's fair :maybe

appletonia
That doesn't mean that power levels cannot ever possibly be linear, just that in those examples given they are not.

Nephthys
Originally posted by appletonia
I'm not so sure that they even get beaten at stage 2, but then I really don't know all that much about Revan. But generally, a lot of people would argue that Revan's different incarnations are around the general level of the characters in that stage as far as I'm aware. Why are people so sure it's a stomp?

They easily get through every other stage though.

Sidious and Bane far eclipse all Revan's in martial prowess and their Force powers are above his as well. They'd dispatch their opponents after a short fight given their considerable speed. And Malgus would defeat Darth Revan with a similar degree of difficulty. The Revan's are basically thoroughly outclassed in ever area.

DarthAnt66
http://r35.imgfast.net/users/3513/11/32/39/smiles/2788772255.gif

Nephthys
Also it makes no sense for Darth Revan to be superior to Kotor Revan. By your own estimation in your own respect thread, Darth Revan only defeated Malak in a "desperate" fight. By Kotor though, Revan defeated a more powerful and amped Malak multiple times in a row despite significant disadvantages.

And your little essay above is completely idiotic. Malak is obviously talking about martial ability. Even in your own dumb interpretation it makes no sense for Malak to consider the brainwashed Jedi version of Revan to be stronger than the Sith version. If Malak saw him as weak for his restraint he'd view him doubly so as a Jedi.

appletonia
Originally posted by Nephthys
Sidious and Bane far eclipse all Revan's in martial prowess and their Force powers are above his as well. They'd dispatch their opponents after a short fight given their considerable speed. And Malgus would defeat Darth Revan with a similar degree of difficulty. The Revan's are basically thoroughly outclassed in ever area.

Do you no longer rate Revan particularly highly? I find it too difficult to argue for him as I haven't read Revan or gotten up to his content in TOR, and it's been too long since I played the KOTOR games and he was always somewhat of an unknown quantity as it was anyway, so I'll take your word for it either way.

Nephthys
Originally posted by appletonia
Do you no longer rate Revan particularly highly? I find it too difficult to argue for him as I haven't read Revan or gotten up to his content in TOR, and it's been too long since I played the KOTOR games and he was always somewhat of an unknown quantity as it was anyway, so I'll take your word for it either way.

No, I estimate Revan very highly. I simply rate Sidious, Bane and Malgus highly as well. Higher than I do these various incarnations of Revan.

Stigma
Originally posted by Nephthys
Sidious and Bane .
Dude, Sidious is so far above Bane that it's not even fair to mention them in the same sentence, especially as if you're implying them to be in the same league...

Vixas
Apologies to everyone I did not mean to make it sound like I took the 80% thing as canon or even extremely seriously, just pointing out that since the general consensus is that SoR Revan is above Vader (I say GENERAL as in majority) by a varying amount, and does indeed have very excellent endurance feats, that he would not die "INSTANTLY". Not that he would not die. Apologies again if my intentions came across as skewed.

SunRazer
The Revan's get slain in the second round.

Vixas
So then, sans Round 2 what is everyone's thoughts?

Sinious
They make it to Round 5 though I'm not sure about that one yet.

FreshestSlice
Originally posted by Vixas
Apologies to everyone I did not mean to make it sound like I took the 80% thing as canon or even extremely seriously, just pointing out that since the general consensus is that SoR Revan is above Vader (I say GENERAL as in majority)
I've never seen the majority of people here put any version of Revan above Vader.

DarthAnt66
You don't look that hard then, lawl.

Nephthys
Like a lot of Old Republic vs Movie Era combatant comparisons it comes down to Revan having stronger Force powers and weaker (mostly through far less definition and accolades) saber skills than Vader. IMO.

DarthAnt66
No one asked for your opinion. mmm

Nephthys
FS's statement was about the forums comparison of those two characters, thus my opinion is as relevant as any others.

DarthAnt66
You aren't a representation of the forum. thumb up

appletonia
Why is Ant so salty these days? laughing out loud

DarthAnt66
I am necessary salty. http://i.imgur.com/aZe1dFT.gif

Nephthys
I kicked his ass in a Zannah vs Revan thread, he got unreasonably huffy and petulant about it and then he steadily became more of a douche who alienated everyone he knew on various websites while swelling his ego writing respect threads.

Also he is literally just hitting puberty, so there's all that unpleasant jazz too.

DarthAnt66
laughing laughing laughing I see I pushed more than a few buttons there. umad, Neph? laughing laughing laughing

You need a new roster of insults though. Your copying and pasting them at this point. thumb up

ILS
Originally posted by Nephthys
Bane died in virtually every thread and rightfully so, I got unreasonably huffy and petulant about it and then steadily became more of a douche who alienated everyone I knew on KMC while swelling my ego wanking nexus feats.

Also I am literally just a child in the body of a man, so there's all that unpleasant jazz too. http://r35.imgfast.net/users/3513/11/32/39/smiles/3024136639.gif

Nephthys
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
laughing laughing laughing I see I pushed more than a few buttons there. umad, Neph? laughing laughing laughing

You need a new roster of insults though. Your copying and pasting them at this point. thumb up

Uh, sure. If you want to think the above were some totally sick burnz that made me mad as hell, be my guest. I was just telling it like it is.

DarthAnt66
LMFAO @ ILS' post. thumb up

Fated Xtasy
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
I've never seen the majority of people here put any version of Revan above Vader.

Eh, i'd say by "general majority" he means those who've only experience Revan's stuff and nothing else or perhaps even fanboys? Either way there is a sizable amount of people who would put Revan above Vader.(I don't lol)

carthage
thumb up

FreshestSlice
Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Eh, i'd say by "general majority" he means those who've only experience Revan's stuff and nothing else or perhaps even fanboys? Either way there is a sizable amount of people who would put Revan above Vader.(I don't lol)
The majority of the actually vocal people on the forum do not place Revan above Vader. This even when taking out outliers that constantly spam the exact same thing or give links to respect thread we've all read plenty of times over.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
You don't look that hard then, lawl.
I've looked plenty, actually.

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
The majority of the actually vocal people on the forum do not place Revan above Vader. This even when taking out outliers that constantly spam the exact same thing or give links to respect thread we've all read plenty of times over.
http://www.comicvine.com/profile/darthant66/blog/revan-respect-thread/95278/
http://www.comicvine.com/profile/darthant66/blog/revan-respect-thread/95278/
http://www.comicvine.com/profile/darthant66/blog/revan-respect-thread/95278/
http://www.comicvine.com/profile/darthant66/blog/revan-respect-thread/95278/
http://www.comicvine.com/profile/darthant66/blog/revan-respect-thread/95278/
http://www.comicvine.com/profile/darthant66/blog/revan-respect-thread/95278/

In all seriousness though, nah. Majority puts Revan > Vader.

I can't think of many that don't actually, tbh. thumb up

FreshestSlice
I've seen more put them about equal, generally agreeing that Revan take Force while Vader takes sabers. Doesn't matter though. SoR Revan isn't what's holding this team back.

Stigma
Originally posted by Nephthys
Bane died in virtually every thread and rightfully so, I got unreasonably huffy and petulant about it and then steadily became more of a douche who alienated everyone I knew on KMC while swelling my ego wanking nexus feats.

Also I am literally just a child in the body of a man, so there's all that unpleasant jazz too.

Originally posted by ILS
http://r35.imgfast.net/users/3513/11/32/39/smiles/3024136639.gif
That's harsh, man. But so true.

Nephthys
Seems Ant's not the only salty sea biscuit around here.

Emperordmb
Ant is at least not resorting to childish bullshit like this.

Nephthys
Ironically.

Sinious
Originally posted by DarthAnt66

In all seriousness though, nah. Majority puts Revan > Vader.

I can't think of many that don't actually, tbh. thumb up

Yeah, I've seen plenty of people who are aligned with PT that believed Revan was above Vader and that was even before SoR came out.

Sinious
Originally posted by Nephthys
Ironically.

thumb up

NTJack0
Originally posted by Sinious
They get stomped in Round 2.

Sinious
Sorry for not replying sooner.

Originally posted by ChaosTheory123
I'll summarize it for you

Farmer with Shotgun, a regular human, had a power level of 5.

Piccolo, with a power level of 329, violently detonated the moon.

A power level of 5 would roughly be 1.5% of Piccolo's power

Detonating the moon at baseline is about 29 exatons (290 times the meteor impact that helped kill the dinosaurs, and about 2 trillion times the nukes dropped on Japan)

Taking power levels as linear would mean the average human, Farmer with Shotgun can turn Australia into a crater, which is garbage.

Sorry the reference was obscure to you, figured I'd shoot for the most well known one :hmm


Well, so your point is that DBZ is also like SW? How does that refute my argument? I'm asking sincerely cause I don't get why you mentioned that.




lol got it, no worries. My main problem with your relatively more scientific way of thinking is, in Star Wars Universe, superpowers come from the Force, a mystical omnipresent energy source that is more explainable with philosophy than science and its executed in a more sophisticated manner compared to other fictional universes that try to do the same(at least imo) which is unique. Therefor the abilities that the characters have because of the Force are also harder to gauge with your approach when the force interchange is between 2 force users and not a jedi applying force on an inorganic being. We can compare TK feats in this context with numbers sure(like the ship Vader lifted is heavier than the platform Malgus lifted etc), but trying to do that with lightning-tutaminis clashes seem kinda off to me especialy since the writers have no intention of writing fighting scenes with your mentality. Drew didn't make Vitiate burn Revan's skin cause it was mathematically consistent with what he imagined the difference between Revan and Vitiate was, he wrote that cause he thought that would be the best way for Vitiate showing supremacy without permanently incapacitating Revan.

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