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Vitiate as of Revan. No TP for Vitiate. Fight takes place in Sidious's Death Star Throne Room.

Probably Starkiller (he's less powerful but a better combatant). Vitiate won't have time to do the kind of charged attacks he did against Revan.

I don't see how Starkiller would get through Vitiate's Force Lightning Storm, should this come down to it.

In short, Vitiate after some effort.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Probably Starkiller (he's less powerful but a better combatant). Vitiate won't have time to do the kind of charged attacks he did against Revan.
How is Starkiller a better combatant?

Also, being a better combatant means nothing when their is substantial power gap between the combatants involved.

Starkiller wins if Vitiate doesn't have access to TP, his lightning won't do shit

^ Agreed. With this OP, Starkiller wins.

Yep. Starkiller was temporary able to absorb even Palpatine's FL which is superior to everything Vitiate can do (except perhaps TP).

Originally posted by carthage
Starkiller wins if Vitiate doesn't have access to TP, his lightning won't do shit
Vitiate's Force Lightning Storm was hot enough to superheat (or possibly melt) metal and intense enough to reduce Revan to ash. And you say that it won't do shit? That Starkiller is somehow immune to it?

Originally posted by McP
Yep. Starkiller was temporary able to absorb even Palpatine's FL which is superior to everything Vitiate can do (except perhaps TP).
Darth Sidious was not going all-out against Starkiller in the canonized scenario because Sidious was interested in luring Starkiller to the Dark Side. In the alternate scenario, Sidious became serious and overwhelmed Starkiller with a single blast of Force Lightning.

Vitiate is a being of tremendous raw power and dark mindset. These characteristics reflect in his powers and most cannot withstand them. Their can be methods to bypass telepathic assaults but Force Lightning is a different game.

Galen Marek died in the process of using Tutaminis against Sidious' Force Lightning, he was becoming one with the Force as he advanced on him.

The same thing would happen here, clearly Starkiller isn't Revan's equal let alone Yoda's.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Vitiate as of Revan. No TP for Vitiate. Fight takes place in Sidious's Death Star Throne Room.

Which incarnation of 'Killer?

Vitiate, same as the fight with Sidious.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Galen Marek died in the process of using Tutaminis against Sidious' Force Lightning, he was becoming one with the Force as he advanced on him.

The same thing would happen here, clearly Starkiller isn't Revan's equal let alone Yoda's.

Vitiate isn't Sidious, especially Revan!Vitiate. 'Killer has the feats and accolades to take this incarnation of Vitiate.

TFU2!Starkiller stomps.

Vitiate is an extremely powerful Sith Lord in Sidious' realm of power, he was capable of overwhelming Revan as soon as he got serious. Starkiller isn't doing any better against this Emperor than he did the other.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Vitiate is an extremely powerful Sith Lord in Sidious' realm of power,

I'd remind you again that this is Vitiate as of Revan. But you're welcome to make your case.

Originally posted by AncientPower
he was capable of overwhelming Revan as soon as he got serious.

Vitiate's opening move, the attempted mindhaxx, apparently demanded a substantial portion of his own energy per the text.

So I'm not sure how one isn't serious when one's very first move is apparently taking a lot of effort.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Starkiller isn't doing any better against this Emperor than he did the other.

The Emperor whom 'Killer was no match for is much more powerful than the emperor he faces in this thread.

You realise of course that incorporeal Vitiate doing what he did is only even more impressive than if he had accomplished it physically. Considering how extremely difficult it is to maintain a disembodied essence, Exar Kun required the temples of Yavin IV for example to even maintain his existence, then the energies of prodigal apprentices to act at all.

Originally posted by AncientPower
You realise of course that incorporeal Vitiate doing what he did is only even more impressive than if he had accomplished it physically. Considering how extremely difficult it is to maintain a disembodied essence, Exar Kun required the temples of Yavin IV for example to even maintain his existence, then the energies of prodigal apprentices to act at all.

....what? Dude, this is Vitiate as of Revan. The book. Where nothing he did involved shedding his mortal coil.

Yes but clearly those kinds of feats remain within his power regardless of state,he simply couldn't apply it without the Empire turning on him.

I don't get why people like to think there is a HUGE power gap between novel Vitiate and Ziost Vitiate. If 300 years of progression+draining Revan(well Meetra actually) is that empowering for him, then he should've already become a force god after Natemha+1100 years of progression which he did not.

He is a Force God. estahuh

More like the Force God.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Yes but clearly those kinds of feats remain within his power regardless of state,he simply couldn't apply it without the Empire turning on him.

That sounds awfully speculative to me.

Unless you want to suggest Vitiate greatly enhanced his prowess since Revan I wouldn't call it speculative so much as logically inferred.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Unless you want to suggest Vitiate greatly enhanced his prowess since Revan I wouldn't call it speculative so much as logically inferred.

I'm not opposed to inference at all, but Revan's entire story arc undercuts your conclusions. Vitiate's already a millennium old or so at this point, has already leeched the power of thousands of Sith Lords, and studied the dark side... and still performs quite embarrassingly against Revan in their fight.

I'd say there's as much reason to doubt the power you infer as there is to endorse it.

Not really, Vitiate goes for mindf*ck, it's not very effective because Revan pulled a plot armor mind defense technique out of his ass and caught him off guard. Then Vitiate spams his way to victory with lightning and Revan is clearly f*cked from the start onwards.

Not much of a humiliation when Revan gets practically one shotted by a single concentrated burst of Force Lightning(Once Vitiate actually hit him anyway). Not that his combat effectiveness holds any weight over whether his power increased drastically or not. We have no reason to believe that's the case.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Not really, Vitiate goes for mindf*ck, it's not very effective because Revan pulled a plot armor mind defense technique out of his ass and caught him off guard. Then Vitiate spams his way to victory with lightning and Revan is clearly f*cked from the start onwards.

Not much of a humiliation when Revan gets practically one shotted by a single concentrated burst of Force Lightning(Once Vitiate actually hit him anyway). Not that his combat effectiveness holds any weight over whether his power increased drastically or not. We have no reason to believe that's the case.

Except that's not at all what happened. The text says Vitiate dedicated much of his energies into mindhaxxing Revan. He wasn't put on his ass because he was caught off guard, he was put on his ass because his "guard" such as it were was dedicated to an attack that ultimately failed. As I explained to you earlier, Vitiate was clearly taking Revan seriously from the first, else he wouldn't have initiated the fight with an attack that required a lot of effort.

"Spamming his way to victory" is a curious way to describe having your shots deflected aside or used to put you on your ass a second time.

Revan tries to deflect Vitiate's concentrated assault barehanded rather than press his advantage, opt for another TK attack, etc. and so forth. And even then, Revan's back on his feet moments later and in good enough condition that Vitiate doesn't dare attack him until he's distracted by Scourge's 11th hour betrayal.

I've been over this with Sinious; the book does not at all portray what you want it to.

Agreed with Tempest

Especially on this point:

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Vitiate isn't Sidious, especially Revan!Vitiate. 'Killer has the feats and accolades to take this incarnation of Vitiate.

TFU2!Starkiller stomps.

Starkiller can take novel Vitiate, espiecally given the OP.

Revan goes into the fight stating that he couldn't go toe to toe with Vitiate for long, and he does lose in mere seconds.

Tempests reading of the fight is extremely slanted. Vitiate wanted to capture and corrupt Revan like he did before. He wasn't expecting Revan to know a technique to resist his TP or to be capable of blasting both sides of the Force at him and afterwards went with much weaker attacks than he is capable of until he got pissed. He was holding back.

Tempest got it right.



Tbh reading this fight, it's kinda boring tbh..

Originally posted by Nephthys
Revan goes into the fight stating that he couldn't go toe to toe with Vitiate for long, and he does lose in mere seconds.
Starkiller is superior to novel Revan.

Doubtful. Unless Starkiller gets another one-with-the-force moment, he isn't dealing with Vitiates lightning better than Revan did.

With no TP involved and SK's monstrous TK, he will do better.

Novel Vitiate's FL is also lesser than OT Sidious's.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Tempests reading of the fight is extremely slanted.

Well few can come close to matching your objectivity on such matters, my darling. By all means, give us your 100% leveled commentary of the fight. stoned

LOL

Love that smiley, too.

Revan couldn't even TK an Imperial Guardsman who was merely drawing power from Vitiate, Vitiate can tank Starkillers TK.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Well few can come close to matching your objectivity on such matters, my darling. By all means, give us your 100% leveled commentary of the fight. stoned

I did.

Any of you guys ever notice how Revan is a weak feeb when compared to guys like Bane and Zannah but mysteriously experiences a stratospheric upgrade when compared to Starkiller and Vader? mmm



mmm



^ This is a 100% leveled, objective, non-slanted commentary of the fight? haermm

Originally posted by Nephthys
Revan couldn't even TK an Imperial Guardsman who was merely drawing power from Vitiate,
And? Starkiller has better TK than novel Revan, so he will have no such problem.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Any of you guys ever notice how Revan is a weak feeb when compared to guys like Bane and Zannah but mysteriously experiences a stratospheric upgrade when compared to Starkiller and Vader? mmm
Must be that Neph's logic coming into play, mmm

Originally posted by Stigma
Must be that Neph's logic coming into play, mmm

> Implying that Neph is not 100% objective? mmm

Starkiller's TK isn't above Revan's by any noticeable degree, and certainly not by enough that he can beat Vitiate with it when Revan could barely move a guardsman.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
> Implying that Neph is not 100% objective? mmm
> implying that I was even implying that Neph is somewhat objective.mmm

Originally posted by Nephthys
Starkiller's TK isn't above Revan's by any noticeable degree, and certainly not by enough that he can beat Vitiate with it when Revan could barely move a guardsman.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Any of you guys ever notice how Revan is a weak feeb when compared to guys like Bane and Zannah but mysteriously experiences a stratospheric upgrade when compared to Starkiller and Vader? mmm

Guys I think it just happened again. mmm

Originally posted by Nephthys
Starkiller's TK isn't above Revan's by any noticeable degree, and certainly not by enough that he can beat Vitiate with it when Revan could barely move a guardsman.
* Bare in mind that we're talking here about novel Revan.

TFU Starkiller was overwhelming Vader in TK. What novel Revan has that matches/beats that?

Starkiller overpowered Vader in terms of force powers.

Just throwing that out there.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Guys I think it just happened again. mmm
It might be one of these .. days.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Starkiller overpowered Vader in terms of force powers.

Just throwing that out there.
As opposed to the other forms of TK that use mass effect fields? Oh wait the only way to use TK in Star Wars is Force power.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Any of you guys ever notice how Revan is a weak feeb when compared to guys like Bane and Zannah but mysteriously experiences a stratospheric upgrade when compared to Starkiller and Vader? mmm



mmm



^ This is a 100% leveled, objective, non-slanted commentary of the fight? haermm

I've never noticed anyone say or imply that, actually.

Yes, it is. Because that's what happened. Vitiate focused his power on crushing Revan's will like he had before, but Revan had prepared a defense and pulled a never before seen attack out of his ass that no-one else has achieved by using the dark and lightside at once. As Zenwolf just posted, Vitiate was unprepared to defend himself and had most of his power focused on something else and so was caught off guard. Afterwards he merely shot a few bolts of lightning at Revan instead of a focused attack, storm or stream which is more powerful. We know he wasn't going all out because then he does go all out and Revan crumples faster than your argument.

Clearly Bandon is the winner here, after beating Vader and Sidious he took out the Skywalker clan by himself after all.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
As opposed to the other forms of TK that use mass effect fields? Oh wait the only way to use TK in Star Wars is Force power. ...Yeah, and he did that.


Don't tell me you're taking that from the novel BS. The game is just as canon as the novel.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I've never noticed anyone say or imply that, actually.

Yes, it is. Because that's what happened. Vitiate focused his power on crushing Revan's will like he had before, but Revan had prepared a defense and pulled a never before seen attack out of his ass that no-one else has achieved by using the dark and lightside at once. As Zenwolf just posted, Vitiate was unprepared to defend himself and had most of his power focused on something else and so was caught off guard. Afterwards he merely shot a few bolts of lightning at Revan instead of a focused attack, storm or stream which is more powerful. We know he wasn't going all out because then he does go all out and Revan crumples faster than your argument. Revan had no idea how he even did the attack, how was he supposed to "prepare" it.

And if he could, why didn't he continue doing it?

Originally posted by Stigma
* Bare in mind that we're talking here about novel Revan.

TFU Starkiller was overwhelming Vader in TK. What novel Revan has that matches/beats that?

Revan's feats in his (first) Swtor fight are on point with Starkiller's basic level.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
...Yeah, and he did that.


Don't tell me you're taking that from the novel BS. The game is just as canon as the novel.
There's no way you're this thick headed. There's just no way.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Revan had no idea how he even did the attack, how was he supposed to "prepare" it.

And if he could, why didn't he continue doing it?

I'm not talking about the attack, that's not how he blocked Vitiate's telepathy. Earlier he mentions knowing a way to defend himself from Vitiate and he teaches Scourge and Meetra (though both are obviously too weak to actually resist). His Force attack was merely a way to stop Vitiate and attack him while his guard was down.

VVV TBF, Vader was ****ing wrecked at that point.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
There's no way you're this thick headed. There's just no way. In the QTE, Vader powerlessly gets ragdolled like a ***** through a window by Starkiller.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Revan's feats in his (first) Swtor fight are on point with Starkiller's basic level.
Basic level Starkiller, as in beginning of TFU?

Also, can you list those feats?

Yeah, Basic-Level Starkiller was barely able to take Kota.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
In the QTE, Vader powerlessly gets ragdolled like a ***** through a window by Starkiller.
Okay, so you are this thick headed. Let me spell this out in a way that even a child could understand. Starkiller overpowering Vader doesn't mean anything besides that he can overpower Vader in TK, after a long a grueling duel I might add. This is not Vader in his prime, given that EU Vader's prime is RotJ. But this has no bearing on this conversation, given that what I said is, or at least implied, why are you talking about Vader being overpowered in the Force when a) it was just said before you started talking, it was said several times actually, and b) you yourself already said Revan was more powerful than Vader?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Starkiller's TK isn't above Revan's by any noticeable degree, and certainly not by enough that he can beat Vitiate with it when Revan could barely move a guardsman.

Bro he used the force to shoot a slug that split a Star Destroyer.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Okay, so you are this thick headed. Let me spell this out in a way that even a child could understand. Starkiller overpowering Vader doesn't mean anything besides that he can overpower Vader in TK, after a long a grueling duel I might add. This is not Vader in his prime, given that EU Vader's prime is RotJ. But this has no bearing on this conversation, given that what I said is, or at least implied, why are you talking about Vader being overpowered in the Force when a) it was just said before you started talking, it was said several times actually, and b) you yourself already said Revan was more powerful than Vader? Novel Revan isn't more powerful then Vader IMO, only SOR Revan is more powerful then Vader.

Also, me and Stigma's messages were mere seconds from being posted, he posted maybe 5-10 seconds before I finished making my post.

I never said that Starkiller overpowering Vader in TK meant anything more then Starkiller overpowering Vader in TK, moron.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Not really, Vitiate goes for mindf*ck, it's not very effective because Revan pulled a plot armor mind defense technique out of his ass and caught him off guard. Then Vitiate spams his way to victory with lightning and Revan is clearly f*cked from the start onwards.

Not much of a humiliation when Revan gets practically one shotted by a single concentrated burst of Force Lightning(Once Vitiate actually hit him anyway). Not that his combat effectiveness holds any weight over whether his power increased drastically or not. We have no reason to believe that's the case.

Please explain to me how Vitiate's lightning has any chance of penetrating a force barrier than can encompass half of an entire frigate, and if it has the potency comparable to the outer layers of a star. It doesn't its best feat unamped is bringing down Mook Jedi, and even Count Dooku can do that. He can spam it and it would be deflected

You can keep repeating that and it doesn't make it true. Vitiate's unamped lightning isn't that powerful, and Starkiller's barrier withstood heat comparable to the outer layer of a star and encompassed half of a frigate. Starkiller's force barrier > Revan's tutaminus and Vitiate's lightning.

Originally posted by carthage
You can keep repeating that and it doesn't make it true. Vitiate's unamped lightning isn't that powerful, and Starkiller's barrier withstood heat comparable to the outer layer of a star and encompassed half of a frigate. Starkiller's force barrier > Revan's tutaminus and Vitiate's lightning.
You realize what an @ss of an argument is this?

Force barrier does not blocks Force Lightning effectively, period. No matter how strong a Force barrier is, Force Lightning will go right through it.

There are only two effective ways to block Force Lightning:

1. Lightsaber-based technique
2. Tutaminis-based technique (raw power)

And for your kind information, blocking Force Lightning through Tutaminis or raw power is one of the most difficult feats a Force-user can perform in the history of the mythos. This is why you don't see many Force-users pulling a Yoda against Force Lightning.

In-fact, it was Yoda's ability to block Force Lightning barehanded that set him apart from others in the matter of raw power.

Once Vitiate goes ballistic on Starkiller with Force Lightning, good luck to Starkiller at that point.

Actually, you're both wrong there.

Lightning as a means of directing energy in SW is just really disproportionate to TK, energy-weapons etc, as ChaosTheory pointed out a little while ago. Ashing someone with Lightning is a big deal but that kind of power output gets shat on by your standard laser cannon to say nothing of orbital bombardment, which Force users have tanked.

The only justification for FL retaining merit is that it's special and eats away at someone's life force, I guess.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Actually, you're both wrong there.
Yes, Darth Nyriss attempted to block Force Lightning with a Force Barrier. And guess what? it failed.

A Force-user might be able to shrug-off Force Lightning to a certain level from basic defensive applications but these are not effective means to prevent this power from breaching through their defenses for long. In many examples, a Force-user is forced to use a Lightsaber for protection against this kind of power.

Darth Nihl killed Kol Skywalker with a powerful blast of Force Lightning. Do you guys think that Skywalker was weak by any stretch of imagination? It was that Skywalker couldn't muster sufficient defenses to counter Force Lightning at that moment.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Yes, Darth Nyriss attempted to block Force Lightning with a Force Barrier. And guess what? it failed.

A Force-user might be able to shrug-off Force Lightning to a certain level from basic defensive applications but these are not effective means to prevent this power from breaching through their defenses if the said power for long.

Nox blocked lightning with a barrier on Corellia. Think that's the only time I've seen it though.

Actually Force Barrier can be used to defend against Force Lighting...example.



Inquisitor Tesla defends himself from Force Lighting using Force Barrier.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Nox blocked lightning with a barrier on Corellia. Think that's the only time I've seen it though.
It must be a technique or something. I have not played Sith Inquisitor story so I cannot comment on this right now.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Actually Force Barrier can be used to defend against Force Lighting...example.



Inquisitor Tesla defends himself from Force Lighting using Force Barrier.
It can be used for this purpose but it is not an effective defensive option.

Force Lightning expressions also vary in intensity and potency, depending upon the power and mindset of the practitioner.

Stopping a Force Lightning expression of an avatar of the Dark Side such as Vitiate with a conventional defensive application (e.g. Force Barrier) is really out of question.

Meetra defended from Force Lightning with a Force Barrier:

"Dazed, he looked up just in time to see another bolt of violet lightning catch Meetra in the chest. Like Nyriss, she threw up a barrier to save herself from the worst of it, but she was still knocked from her feet."

--Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan

Yes, she was thrown off her feet, but she defended herself from the more damaging effects, which is what matters.

Nyriss' barrier didn't work because it was too weak; Meetra's barrier partially stopped the lightning shot at her.

Regardless, Galen's tutaminis will probably be the correct tool to use, yeah.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
It must be a technique or something. I have not played Sith Inquisitor story so I cannot comment on this right now.

You can always check out my respect thread, but heres the video (5.55)

DlMUvjP4MM8

I would agree with you though, that it's a very ineffective defense thats not as good as a lightsaber or tutaminis.

Carths wrong though, so it doesn't matter. But nothing he says does so thats not new.

Considering you haven't disproven anything, lmfao

Originally posted by Nephthys
His TK served it's purpose in putting Revan in position to get TP'd.

Proof that that was its purpose? Vitiate having to use a charged TK wave on a dark side nexus to stop Revan's bumrush is pretty lame.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Vitiate used much of his strength to try and take over Revans mind, but I don't see how that implies anything. All it does it explain why Vitiate didn't defend against Revan's counterattack and indicate Vitiate's desire to again dominate Revan.

That Vitiate "used much of his strength" against Revan not only proves that the techniques requires "much of his strength" but also proves that Vitiate was "using much of his strength" to stop Revan from the very beginning, which cripples your silly fantasy that Vitiate wasn't being serious lol.

The ideas are mutually exclusive.

Originally posted by Nephthys
You didn't even try to rebut my point that Vitiate used weak attacks on Revan afterwards, so that's cool with me.

There's nothing to rebut. That they weren't his absolute strongest charged attacks doesn't mean anything, anymore than a boxer throwing quick jabs versus wild haymakers at another boxer means that boxer A wasn't taking boxer B seriously. Especially when you consider the fact that two previous attacks by Vitiate that involved a lot of effort got him exactly nowhere.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I've already established that Vitiate only hesitates to evaluate Meetra, as the novel directly states. It means nothing and you know it does.

That Vitiate continued to hesitate and didn't attack until after Scourge whittled down the team and Revan was distracted means everything and you know it does.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Scourges vision means nothing, as he states he was seeing every conceivable future, not what was likely.

And there is no indication in the text as to which outcome was more likely than other. All it says is that he saw some in which Vitiate was victorious and others in which he wasn't.

Originally posted by Nephthys
At the end he see's the true future and knows that they cannot beat Vitiate.

Cannot/could not is very different from will not/did not.

Where did Scourge ever say or muse that they "cannot" beat Vitiate?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Starkiller is alone in this, he doesn't have anyone save his ass with a surprise attack. If he tries to block Vitiate's lightning he will suffer the same fate as Revan, Starkiller's tutaminis isn't better than Revans.

Cool story, but you've failed utterly to establish any of this.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
It can be used for this purpose but it is not an effective defensive option.

Force Lightning expressions also vary in intensity and potency, depending upon the power and mindset of the practitioner.

Stopping a Force Lightning expression of an avatar of the Dark Side such as Vitiate with a conventional defensive application (e.g. Force Barrier) is really out of question.

I was merely saying since you said Force Barrier wasn't viable in defending against Force Lighting, it is as shown.

Tesla was pretty powerful actually, just a side note figured I mention it.

Polling the audience here, but since apparently Scourge envisioning that someone else would ultimately defeat Vitiate means that no one else possibly can, I'm wondering if that logic applies to Sidious?

Only the Chosen One can kill Sidious, so does that mean that Sidious takes Nihilus and/or Abeloth and/or the Son and/or Bane solely by the outcome of prophecy?

mmm

Im gonna address this one last(I hope) time, Tempest.

Lets go through this again and you tell me where you disagree(or think the text disagrees).

Vitiate was put on his ass at first because he had his guard down. He had his guard down cause he diverted much of his strength on dominating Revan's mind. He diverted much of his strength on that because he assumed he could do it casually but when his attack faced resistance, he had to invest more and more into his TP attack which failed due to reasons that has no relevance when comparing power.

Choosing to take care of someone by dominating their minds instead of fighting them is an indication of superiority as it is a way of dealing with them without even fighting and Revan survived the attack only because he had mastered a technique based on their past encounter. Vitiate is defined by fear of death and avoiding risk so if he attempted such an attack which eventually made him lower his guard, he only did it cause he believed Revan was not a real challenge for him.

"The Emperor rolled over, lifted himself up on one knee, and his hands flew forward as he hurtled a bolt of dark side lightning at his enemy."

Hurtled is the key word there. A cocky TP attack followed by a hurtled attack shows that Vitiate still not going all out on Revan as it also shows that a hurtled attack was enough to stop Revan's charge and send him back.

At this point, we have a Vitiate who until a couple seconds ago believed that Revan was a weakling who could be taken care of without fighting and was sent back with a hurtled lightning attack. So it is only natural that he though 3 more of those small attacks would do the job.

Until this point, Vitiate's actions are not a representation of his true capabilities and after that point Vitiate instantly one-shots Revan.

This is an arena type all out no morals fight where both sides would unleash their full power and Vitiate is indeed more powerful than Galen. He won't finish him off as easily as Sidious did no doubt, but he will still win.

A barrier strikes me as an inefficient defense against FL.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
A barrier strikes me as an inefficient defense against FL.

Other than the examples provided where barrier was used to deflect it? Lol.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Polling the audience here, but since apparently Scourge envisioning that someone else would ultimately defeat Vitiate means that no one else possibly can, I'm wondering if that logic applies to Sidious?

Only the Chosen One can kill Sidious, so does that mean that Sidious takes Nihilus and/or Abeloth and/or the Son and/or Bane solely by the outcome of prophecy?

mmm

Yes, absolutely.

Originally posted by Sinious
Im gonna address this one last(I hope) time, Tempest.

Your funeral lol. The facts haven't changed between now and then.

Originally posted by Sinious
Lets go through this again and you tell me where you disagree(or think the text disagrees).

k

Originally posted by Sinious
Vitiate was put on his ass at first because he had his guard down. He had his guard down cause he diverted much of his strength on dominating Revan's mind. He diverted much of his strength on that because he assumed he could do it casually but when his attack faced resistance, he had to invest more and more into his TP attack which failed due to reasons that has no relevance when comparing power.

Lots of empty speculation here.

The text never says that Vitiate's initial effort was "casual" and that he upped the ante when facing resistance. In fact, the text never mentions any resistance on Revan's part other than the attack he used to put Vitiate on his ass.

Instead, it reads as though the attack itself simply required lots of effort from the onset and Revan put Vitiate on his ass.

{Which, coincidentally, is what Karpyshyn l8r confirmed to Intrepid37 via email: that the mindhaxx is not effortless. Which is another reason I trust my own interpretation over anyone else's.}

Originally posted by Sinious
Choosing to take care of someone by dominating their minds instead of fighting them is an indication of superiority as it is a way of dealing with them without even fighting and Revan survived the attack only because he had mastered a technique based on their past encounter. Vitiate is defined by fear of death and avoiding risk so if he attempted such an attack which eventually made him lower his guard, he only did it cause he believed Revan was not a real challenge for him.

More speculation.

Your argument is that because Vitiate attempted and failed to mindhack Revan {an attempt that required substantial effort}, it must mean Vitiate is superior and to a tremendous degree.

Not really. Especially when that attack required a lot of investment.

Originally posted by Sinious
"The Emperor rolled over, lifted himself up on one knee, and his hands flew forward as he hurtled a bolt of dark side lightning at his enemy."

Hurtled is the key word there. A cocky TP attack followed by a hurtled attack shows that Vitiate still not going all out on Revan as it also shows that a hurtled attack was enough to stop Revan's charge and send him back.

...You got all that from the word "hurtled"? Are you kidding me?

Originally posted by Sinious
At this point, we have a Vitiate who until a couple seconds ago believed that Revan was a weakling who could be taken care of without fighting and was sent back with a hurtled lightning attack. So it is only natural that he though 3 more of those small attacks would do the job.

That the attacks weren't charged doesn't mean they were weak. It just means they weren't charged.

Originally posted by Sinious
Until this point, Vitiate's actions are not a representation of his true capabilities and after that point Vitiate instantly one-shots Revan.

No one ever claimed that all of Vitiate's attacks against Revan were his strongest. {Though both the initial TK wave and its follow up TP mindhaxx were, according to the text, charged and focused assaults.} Cf. my reference to Neph about boxing, jabs, and haymakers.

Originally posted by Sinious
This is an arena type all out no morals fight where both sides would unleash their full power and Vitiate is indeed more powerful than Galen. He won't finish him off as easily as Sidious did no doubt, but he will still win.

That has yet to be established.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yes, absolutely.

http://media.giphy.com/media/sT62ObVC4Q2m4/giphy.gif

It pleases me to have humbled you so utterly.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
http://media.giphy.com/media/sT62ObVC4Q2m4/giphy.gif

It pleases me to have humbled you so utterly.

http://www.reactionface.info/sites/default/files/images/1348778638428.gif

Originally posted by Nephthys
http://www.reactionface.info/sites/default/files/images/1348778638428.gif

I doubt you and that fine slam piece have much in common beyond the fact that you each bleed from your vaginas once a month. mmm

We do have one thing: We're both too good for you.

http://ak-hdl.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/webdr03/2013/2/21/9/anigif_enhanced-buzz-10854-1361458583-0.gif

http://yourwrecks.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/1924-i-aint-even-mad.jpg

http://s3media.247sports.com/Uploads/Assets/708/360/3360708.JPG

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Lots of empty speculation here.

The text never says that Vitiate's initial effort was "casual" and that he upped the ante when facing resistance. In fact, the text never mentions any resistance on Revan's part other than the attack he used to put Vitiate on his ass.

Instead, it reads as though the attack itself simply required lots of effort from the onset and Revan put Vitiate on his ass.

{Which, coincidentally, is what Karpyshyn l8r confirmed to Intrepid37 via email: that the mindhaxx is not effortless. Which is another reason I trust my own interpretation over anyone else's.}
Concentrating on a single source is not enough to understand this event.

Vitiate have history of breaking individuals with his telepathic powers with barely an effort. Examples include Lord Dramath, Revan and Malak. The latter two simultaneously:

It took only a fraction of the Emperor's loathsome power to complete their fall. (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia)

Mr. Karpyshyn's unofficial opinion is of no significance when we have official information at hand.

Revan proved to be much harder to break second time because he was absolutely prepared for this kind of offense. Telepathically subjugating Revan at this point would require lot more effort then norm; not surprisingly Vitiate had to exert much more then his norm to attempt to break Revan this time. However, such an effort failed because Revan not just resisted telepathic offense but went on the offensive on top of it in split-second time. In the heat of this moment, Vitiate was caught unprepared for an offense from the opponent because he had diverted much of his strength towards telepathic offense.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
More speculation.

Your argument is that because Vitiate attempted and failed to mindhack Revan {an attempt that required substantial effort}, it must mean Vitiate is superior and to a tremendous degree.

Not really. Especially when that attack required a lot of investment.
See above.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD


It took only a fraction of the Emperor's loathsome power to complete their fall. (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia)



Holy s*** I completely forgot about that quote. Thanks Legend!

Well if that's true, your impression of LeGenDa guy who can't possibly assemble a cogent argument to defend this lame-ass character is pretty much flawless.

http://media.liveauctiongroup.net/i/5185/7953172_1.jpg



You should have indeed used better wording, but the bottom line is that even this doesn't affect the discussion either way. The fact of the matter is that Vitiate invested tremendous energy into neutralizing Revan from the onset. The notion that he didn't intend to do him physical harm is irrelevant {and also incorrect, since Vitiate's very first salvo was a charged TK attack} since the technique was employed to prevent a fight from ever occurring in the first place.

tl;dr: you've utterly failed to refute the fact that Vitiate was seeking to neutralize Revan from the beginning and employed tremendous energies to do so.



Believing oneself to be superior to one's opponent and believing that one's opponent isn't a threat aren't mutually exclusive. Not only can Vitiate still regard Revan as a threat and try to mindhack him, it might well explain why Vitiate opted to try it in the first place: to avoid a confrontation he might well lose.

{Since apparently naked speculation is permissible here.}



You're assuming facts not in evidence. You're assuming that Vitiate opted for the mindhack because he felt Revan would be so easily dispatched. Not only is that contradicted by the text {the mindhack apparently requiring tremendous energy to employ}, but there's an alternative explanation:





Then there's really no point in bringing them up.



I'm beginning to doubt you can read.

His opponent stood perfectly still, focusing and channeling his power. At the last possible instant, the Emperor unleashed a wave of energy that swept Revan off his feet and sent him flying backward.

Pretty straightforward, Sin.



Right, because Vitiate "focusing and channeling his power" and releasing the attack "at the last possible instant" to thwart Revan is indicative of... complete control and effortlessness.

Just when I think you couldn't possibly craft a dumber argument, you overachieve.



Uh huh. And how do you know the purpose of the attack wasn't to seriously injure or incapacitate?



Since my point is that Revan withstood 2 of Vitiate's 3 charged attacks and successfully evaded or deflected the rest and managed to put Vitiate on his ass twice, all of which the text supports, I think my compelling argument stands proudly erect.

And you're currently gagging on it.

lmfao @ Neph saying Galen's TK isn't more powerful than Revan's yet also preaches Bane and Zannah >>> Revan in the same field.

You know my stance of Mareks feats being exaggerated.

Which is an autistic stance at best, considering the kind of assniggery you try to pass off as grounded.

Revan's telekinetic actions (described in the novel) are mostly controlled and up-to-the-mark. Revan apparently went all-out while resisting Vitiate's telepathic assault , but even this is debatable.

I am sure that we haven't seen much from Revan in the context of his telekinetic abilities. Starkiller, in contrast, was trained and groomed by Darth Vader to use his powers to maximum destructive effect like a Sith Lord.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I am sure that we haven't seen much from Revan in the context of his telekinetic abilities.
lolwut.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Which is an autistic stance at best, considering the kind of assniggery you try to pass off as grounded.

Not really. I argue TFU is exaggerated because it's the whole point of the game and has been stated as such. I don't argue it in other cases because it isn't and hasn't.

Also, assniggery sounds kind of like a racist slur.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Which is an autistic stance at best, considering the kind of assniggery you try to pass off as grounded.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
lolwut.
We don't have many examples of Revan going all-out with his telekinetic abilities. Comparing Starkiller with Revan in this regard is moot point.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
We don't have many examples of Revan going all-out with his telekinetic abilities. Comparing Starkiller with Revan in this regard is moot point.


Revan ragdolling the Yavin strike teams come to mind.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66


Revan ragdolling the Yavin strike teams come to mind.
This is a single example. Any other?

Also, you expect Starkiller to pack this much offensive punch? His feat of ragdolling (badly injured) Darth Vader pales in comparison.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Not really. I argue TFU is exaggerated because it's the whole point of the game and has been stated as such. I don't argue it in other cases because it isn't and hasn't.

Also, assn*****y sounds kind of like a racist slur.

Jesus Christ, are you really using that word??

Neph, it's bad enough that you're a hypocrite and whiny and British. But I never considered you a racist.

You stole that joke from me.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
This is a single example. Any other?

Also, you expect Starkiller to pack this much offensive punch? His feat of throwing Darth Vader around pales in comparison.
Well he does it like four times. Also the Foundry.

Starkiller and Vader are rivals of Revan in TK, yeah.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Which is an autistic stance at best, considering the kind of assniggery you try to pass off as grounded.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Well he does it like four times. Also the Foundry.

Starkiller and Vader are rivals of Revan in TK, yeah.
Rivals, not superiors.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Rivals, not superiors.

> Says we can't accurately compare Revan to Starkiller due to lack of feats
> Definitively declares them rivals

facepalm

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Which is an autistic stance at best, considering the kind of assniggery you try to pass off as grounded. :>

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Novel Revan isn't more powerful then Vader IMO, only SOR Revan is more powerful then Vader.

The Revan in SoR isn't that much, if at all, more powerful than the Revan in the novel.

He was restating a point brought up several times before you said anything.

Which, like I just said, is moot given your belief that Revan is more powerful than Vader, and no SoR Revan isn't leagues above the one seen in the novel, especially given him being in the center of a nexus. Take a chill pill and learn to read.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Which is an autistic stance at best, considering the kind of assniggery you try to pass off as grounded.
Nicely summing up all of Neph's arguments.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
The Revan in SoR isn't that much, if at all, more powerful than the Revan in the novel.




There seem to be quite abit of power difference to me.

Yes, and if I thought TKing Wrath/HoT and friends was outside of the possibilites of Revan Reborn, I'd agree with you. But I don't. I think the guy that is able to rip asteroids out of orbit, repeatedly should be able to TK a bunch of aging references, Lana, Theron, and the Wrath/HoT. It's not even a complete Revan faced in ToS/SoR and he's in a nexus, while completely dark. That's not something I can ignore.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
while completely dark.
kek.

Bruh, you know what I mean. Don't give me no shit.

Dark Revan vs. Darth Revan. Go.

@Freshest: Well he's bathing Marr and Lana in pure light side energy so mmm.

>acting like I give a shit about OP mechanics

Everything needs to be a puzzle, so...

Ninja is evil, that's all that matters.

It was a story boss not OP mechanics.

And him bathing them in light / dark side energies isn't mechanics.

It's called a solo Op, pretty sure that's exactly what they call it, and Revan is fought as any operation boss would be, with a special gimmick that needs to be figured out or you die. The only reason I'm even entertaining the thought that it is remotely legit is that OtherRevan is there to help the team out and that might be story based. `

I lol'ed to all the points above.


There is no such thing in the game.

Also, for the record, people who do the ToS OP still have to do the Forgotten Terrace mission.


Well I'm pretty sure you are wrong.


No he's not.


That doesn't qualify him as an OP boss, kek.

Have you even ever ran an OP?


I never really asked why you think what you do since I don't really care.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I lol'ed to all the points above.


There is no such thing in the game.

Also, for the record, people who do the ToS OP still have to do the Forgotten Terrace mission.

Well I'm pretty sure you are wrong.

I have the game up right now, so please enlighten me to what it actually says.

He is. He's given a shit ton of health and then you and 8 people, or in this case you and 7 NPCs have at it. He also has weird "puzzles" that require matching colors before going back to hitting him mindlessly.

You mean besides the fact that he is an ops boss and designed just like one?

I have. Most of them have mechanics such as this that require multiple people to accomplish and basic grasp of your favorite colors, much like this boss fight that you apparently think is so unique in it's design.

Didn't ask for a bunch of nitpicking, "kek"ing, and bitching, but it's here anyway for some reason. But it really boils down to you taking one part of what I said, something that's actually shown in cutscene no less of Revan being split, and bitching because a bunch of orbs and circles appeared in gameplay when it has absolutely zero to do with the point in question. It's a nexus, Revan can use it, and he's in the middle of it. I give no shit about anything else involved and nothing else actually matters, including your personal definition of what an "op" is.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
The Revan in SoR isn't that much, if at all, more powerful than the Revan in the novel.

He was restating a point brought up several times before you said anything.

Which, like I just said, is moot given your belief that Revan is more powerful than Vader, and no SoR Revan isn't leagues above the one seen in the novel, especially given him being in the center of a nexus. Take a chill pill and learn to read. 300 years of being ravaged in the mind by Vitiate and doing the same thing back to Vitiate.
You are gonna be a little tougher.

It's idotic when people say a massive timeskip doesn't change anything.

And, Revan didn't age physically a single day.

@ Tempest

For a guy who invested 10 years in these forums trying to create a Sidious alike image(which I would admire if you hadn't failed at pulling it off), you get ugly in debates way too fast. Its as if you are everything you say Neph is.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
You should have indeed used better wording, but the bottom line is that even this doesn't affect the discussion either way. The fact of the matter is that Vitiate invested tremendous energy into neutralizing Revan from the onset. The notion that he didn't intend to do him physical harm is irrelevant {and also incorrect, since Vitiate's very first salvo was a charged TK attack} since the technique was employed to prevent a fight from ever occurring in the first place.
Legend's quote has actually done what I couldn't myself which is refuting everything you said about Vitiate's TP.

LOL I never denied that.




Except the novel supports my "speculations" where yours just lack quality.

I'd like to point to Legend's quote again.

Lets bring up some of the facts we know:

1) Vitiate, in another instance used a fraction of his power to mindrape Revan and Malak and it is confirmed that he has taken care of dozens of other Jedi that faced him with his TP.
2) Revan says this time he knows Vitiate's tactics and that he has a new technique that can help him resist Vitiate's TP which is something no other force user has achieved before.
3) Vitiate had already managed to overwhelm Revan with TP with a fraction of his power and he had no reason to believe Revan would be able to resist it this time.
4) Vitiate is defined by the fear of death and its stupid to think that an attack that exposes him to any kind of attack is his preferred attack especially since his lightning can get the same job done.

So mindhaxx doesn't take that much effort yet it did against Revan. Revan is also the only person who had a defense against it which was unknown to Vitiate which tells any intelligent person that Vitiate was caught unexacting and therefor it gave Revan a chance to harm Vitiate which is an opportunity that SK will not have here.

So my past speculations in this thread are proven by multiple sources and the story itself also supports it. Disagreeing at this point is simply ignoring evidence.

Calm down pumpkin. When I first read it, I saw it as Vitiate preparing himself/getting in the mood to fight(or whatever) since he rarely gets off his ass to do anything let alone fight someone and then he simply waited for Revan to charge him for him to begin his attacks. I didn't pay much attention to it as I don't now since it has little significance. If its going to make you happy, I'll agree to accept however you see it.

Cause I never saw it as a charged attack but merely an attack that would give Vitiate the ideal distance for mindraping someone.

And I've explained to you why the fight went that way even in this very post. You keep on yapping about how the fight went yet ignore the entirety of the dialogue in the novel and other sources. Your take on it is irrelevant when its already disproven.

Originally posted by Sinious
@ Tempest

For a guy who invested 10 years in these forums trying to create a Sidious alike image(which I would admire if you hadn't failed at pulling it off), you get ugly in debates way too fast. Its as if you are everything you say Neph is.

Hey, an inexorable element of that image involves taking dipshits like you to the curb for your inane opinions. It's not exactly my fault; you make the choice time and again to defend lame-ass characters like Vitiate and feel compelled to engage in revisionist history to do so. What follows is an inevitable consequence of your foolishness. excellent

Originally posted by Sinious
Legend's quote has actually done what I couldn't myself which is refuting everything you said about Vitiate's TP.

LeGenD's quote comes from an in-universe, fallible source. Vitiate's mindhaxx of Revan and Malak was the product of a trap and preparation. Not to mention the fact that the guy who actually wrote the goddamn book supports my opinion, which is why {again) my interpretation is infinitely more reliable and precise than your irretrievably biased fumblings.

Though I do appreciate the fact that you openly admit you couldn't refute any of my points.

Originally posted by Sinious
LOL I never denied that.

Kinda makes this argument pointless when you don't deny that Vitiate tried to neutralize Revan from the beginning and dedicated tremendous energy to doing so.

Which is further evidence of the monumental stupidity you evince every time you enter the fray to defend this Sidious-wannabe.

Originally posted by Sinious
Except the novel supports my "speculations" where yours just lack quality.

Except it doesn't. If it does, you're welcome to quote the relevant passages.

Originally posted by Sinious
I'd like to point to Legend's quote again.

And I'll just point again to the fact that Vitiate mindhacked Revan and Malak with ample time to prepare on a dark side nexus, as Revan expounds ad nauseam. I'll also refer you to the commentary from the hack who wrote this shit in the first place, who not-so-coincidentally agrees with me.

Does it perturb you that I grasp the full nature of Vitiate better than you ever will? mmm

Originally posted by Sinious
Lets bring up some of the facts we know:

1) Vitiate, in another instance used a fraction of his power to mindrape Revan and Malak and it is confirmed that he has taken care of dozens of other Jedi that faced him with his TP.

You mean Vitiate mindraped a Malak and Revan who were already on the precipice of the dark side... on a dark side nexus... with prep-time.

Originally posted by Sinious
2) Revan says this time he knows Vitiate's tactics and that he has a new technique that can help him resist Vitiate's TP which is something no other force user has achieved before.

Uh-huh. And the text never specifies that this is what drove Vitiate to dedicate more energy to the attempt.

Originally posted by Sinious
3) Vitiate had already managed to overwhelm Revan with TP with a fraction of his power and he had no reason to believe Revan would be able to resist it this time.

Vitiate had prep-time before and Revan was already on the verge of dark side corruption. Per Revan, the text says Vitiate employed charged TK and charged TP to no effect.

Originally posted by Sinious
4) Vitiate is defined by the fear of death and its stupid to think that an attack that exposes him to any kind of attack is his preferred attack especially since his lightning can get the same job done.

No one disputes that Vitiate was under the impression a charged TP attack would get the job done. The bottom line is that Vitiate employed charged attacks from the onset to neutralize Revan on a dark side nexus and failed the first 2 times.

Originally posted by Sinious
So mindhaxx doesn't take that much effort yet it did against Revan. Revan is also the only person who had a defense against it which was unknown to Vitiate which tells any intelligent person that Vitiate was caught unexacting and therefor it gave Revan a chance to harm Vitiate which is an opportunity that SK will not have here.

It's amusing to see that all you're equipped with is naked speculation. All I'll point out to you, again, is the text where Vitiate employs charged attacks and fails and where the author agrees with me.

Originally posted by Sinious
So my past speculations in this thread are proven by multiple sources and the story itself also supports it. Disagreeing at this point is simply ignoring evidence.

Nah, your speculation is informed by more speculation. You offer nothing by way of concrete evidence and only offer interpretations which favor Vitiate but lack any stable foundation.

No one cares.

Originally posted by Sinious
Calm down pumpkin. When I first read it, I saw it as Vitiate preparing himself/getting in the mood to fight(or whatever) since he rarely gets off his ass to do anything let alone fight someone and then he simply waited for Revan to charge him for him to begin his attacks. I didn't pay much attention to it as I don't now since it has little significance. If its going to make you happy, I'll agree to accept however you see it.

We've already established that your reading comprehension leaves something to be desired. I accept your concession.

Maybe next time, you'll ease off the Vitiate wank and forgo the Hooked On Phonics experience.

Originally posted by Sinious
Cause I never saw it as a charged attack but merely an attack that would give Vitiate the ideal distance for mindraping someone.

We've established that "what you see" is incredibly stupid. Maybe if you could learn to evaluate the text on its own merits rather than invent baseless bullshit to justify the failures of Vitiate, you'd have an easier time in this discussion.

Originally posted by Sinious
And I've explained to you why the fight went that way even in this very post. You keep on yapping about how the fight went yet ignore the entirety of the dialogue in the novel and other sources. Your take on it is irrelevant when its already disproven.

You've manufactured baseless and speculative explanations to justify why Vitiate performed so poorly against Revan. I can't stress enough the extent to which no one cares. Vitiate is inconsequential and your defense of him is even less meaningful. Every single point I've made is drawn directly from the source material, which is why the goddamn author supports it.

I like you, Sin, and you'll be a successful acolyte when you bend the knee. But the fact remains that every single time you defend this position, your cognitive functions drop to rival that of a celery stalk. Vitiate performed pretty lamely against Revan and them's the facts. Get over Vitiate, dude.

No one cares.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
LeGenD's quote comes from an in-universe, fallible source. Vitiate's mindhaxx of Revan and Malak was the product of a trap and preparation. Not to mention the fact that the guy who actually wrote the goddamn book supports my opinion, which is why {again) my interpretation is infinitely more reliable and precise than your irretrievably biased fumblings.
Dismissing sources now when they prove you wrong?

Newsflash: many Star Wars based sources are in-universe in design.

You are highlighting Revan's opinion; he claimed that Vitiate was 'prepared' for him and Malak, but his claim is ambiguous. Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia presents a neutral perspective of this encounter and it refutes your position in this matter.

Moreover, as pointed out to you earlier, a single author does not defines Vitiate and his capabilities.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Vitiate performed pretty lamely against Revan and them's the facts. Get over Vitiate, dude.
Shall I remind you how the all-powerful Darth Sidious performed against Mace Windu and Yoda? And also the fact that Darth Vader lifted him and shoved him into a hole of his own creation aka Death Star?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Dismissing sources now when they prove you wrong?

Newsflash: many Star Wars based sources are in-universe in design.

You are highlighting Revan's opinion; he claimed that Vitiate was 'prepared' for him and Malak, but his claim is ambiguous. Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia presents a neutral perspective of this encounter and it refutes your position in this matter.

Moreover, as pointed out to you earlier, a single author does not defines Vitiate and his capabilities.

Uh-huh. So if I were to consult the SWTOR Encyclopedia, I wouldn't find a shred of evidence indicating that Vitiate led Malak and Revan into a trap?

Again, it's not my fault that the guy who literally wrote the book on Revan/Vitiate sides with me and not you guys. It's clearly just that when it comes to understanding Vitiate, I'm better than you.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Shall I remind you how the all-powerful Darth Sidious performed against Mace Windu and Yoda? And also the fact that Darth Vader lifted him and shoved him into a hole of his own creation aka Death Star?

http://fermentationwineblog.com/wp-content/uploads/redherring.png

Sidious's performances against those folks have absolutely nothing to do with a discussion that pertains to Vitiate's.

I didn't claim that my man Sheev is all-powerful. The SWTOR faction continues to boggle the mind with respect to its stupdiity tbh. ermm

Originally posted by The_Tempest


I like you, Sin, and you'll be a successful acolyte when you bend the knee. But the fact remains that every single time you defend this position, your cognitive functions drop to rival that of a celery stalk. Vitiate performed pretty lamely against Revan and them's the facts. Get over Vitiate, dude.

No one cares.

Meh, I trusted you as a potential master once, you betrayed me.

Not really. All I'm doing is putting myself in a riskier position than you cause I unlike you don't care about being proven wrong. And its only riskier cause you choose to ignore the bigger picture in debates just so you can win even though you actually know what you're saying is not true. It seems like every time we have a discussion, you get emotional and lose your cool. I'll reply to the rest of your post later as you're far from convincing with your infantile insults.

Originally posted by Sinious
Meh, I trusted you as a potential master once, you betrayed me.

Nah, you betrayed me by continuing to back Vitiate, Loser Supreme. uhuh

Originally posted by Sinious
Not really. All I'm doing is putting myself in a riskier position than you cause I unlike you don't care about being proven wrong. And its only riskier cause you choose to ignore the bigger picture in debates just so you can win even though you actually know what you're saying is not true. It seems like every time we have a discussion, you get emotional and lose your cool. I'll reply to the rest of your post later as you're far from convincing with your infantile insults.



Dude, you back Vitiate because you have a not-so-secret crush on the character while grappling with the fact that he'll never, ever be as important or as powerful as Sheev. It's a textbook identity crisis and there's nothing I can do for you other than let events play out as they will. You'll either conform to the proper way of thinking or you won't and you'll be mocked and tormented as a result. Idgaf. It's a trial by fire. mmm

The fact that the author agrees with me is just proof enough that I'm vastly superior when it comes to interpreting text. You're just dumb on all things Vitiate.

I can't be blamed for it tbh.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Nah, you betrayed me by continuing to back Vitiate, Loser Supreme. uhuh



Dude, you back Vitiate because you have a not-so-secret crush on the character while grappling with the fact that he'll never, ever be as important or as powerful as Sheev. It's a textbook identity crisis and there's nothing I can do for you other than let events play out as they will. You'll either conform to the proper way of thinking or you won't and you'll be mocked and tormented as a result. Idgaf. It's a trial by fire. mmm

The fact that the author agrees with me is just proof enough that I'm vastly superior when it comes to interpreting text. You're just dumb on all things Vitiate.

I can't be blamed for it tbh.

Meh, even my Vitiate wankery is an indirect tribute to Sidious. Besides, I've lost my interest in the character some time ago(when he stopped being Sidious and started being Valkorion). This doesn't justify your betrayal in anyway.

Except you already know he's not even my favorite SW character when the character you think I want him to surpass is my favorite character of all times including every character from every literature work. If I were letting a SW character affect me in RL like that, it would most likely be a different one

Your disagreement is no torment to me. Author's comments on e-mails are far more irrelevant than the quote I gave you. You're the one who loses control when Vitiate is being debated as proven by this thread. Nice try though.

> ends previous debate because he got emotional
> accuses others of being emotional

You goofy. haermm

'Killer stomps tbh. stoned

When did I do that exactly? You childishly said you won and bounced. Hardly my fault it ended prematurely.

I don't need to accuse you of anything bro. Your own posts prove how imbalanced you get every time Vitiate is mentioned. I've never ever done or said anything that would put us on bad terms other than wanking a character who isn't named Sidious. And that sole act is enough to turn you into an immature prick. It reached a point where I don't want to debate Vitiate just cause I don't want you to see it and have a bad day.

Btw, its amuses me to see you claim someone who Sidious can stomp is capable of defeating Vitiate where in many occasions you said Sidious vs Vitiate would be a good fight.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Uh-huh. So if I were to consult the SWTOR Encyclopedia, I wouldn't find a shred of evidence indicating that Vitiate led Malak and Revan into a trap?
So-called trap was the fact that Vitiate was aware of presence and motives of Revan and Malak on Dromund Kaas. He instructed the Imperial Guard to grant them the opportunity to confront him. Vitiate could have ordered his powerbase to move against the assassins but he decided to confront them at personal risk instead.

If anybody deserves credit for being brave in this encounter, it is Vitiate.

The relevant novel offers an explanation of this encounter from the perspective of Revan . Trap is a misleading word! Revan and Malak weren't lured into a place filled with actual traps or something, and neither Vitiate had armed himself with an artifact to use against the unsuspecting Jedi.

This was an honest confrontation in which Vitiate easily overwhelmed the assassins with his powers.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Again, it's not my fault that the guy who literally wrote the book on Revan/Vitiate sides with me and not you guys. It's clearly just that when it comes to understanding Vitiate, I'm better than you.
Brah, do you prefer a single source for information for Darth Sidious (or any character) or you consider to look at all available sources of information about them when assessing their capabilities?

Originally posted by The_Tempest
http://fermentationwineblog.com/wp-content/uploads/redherring.png

Sidious's performances against those folks have absolutely nothing to do with a discussion that pertains to Vitiate's.

I didn't claim that my man Sheev is all-powerful. The SWTOR faction continues to boggle the mind with respect to its stupdiity tbh. ermm
Your mind tricks do not work on me.

Your argument is that Vitiate is a poor combatant or his performance was lame against Revan but your assessment is removed from truth. Revan's admirable performance against Vitiate is not indicative of Vitiate's lameness but proof of Revan's extraordinary power and command of the Force. In a span of centuries, a single opponent never managed to challenge Vitiate in the manner as Revan did.

Originally posted by Sinious
When did I do that exactly? You childishly said you won and bounced. Hardly my fault it ended prematurely.

I don't need to accuse you of anything bro. Your own posts prove how imbalanced you get every time Vitiate is mentioned. I've never ever done or said anything that would put us on bad terms other than wanking a character who isn't named Sidious. And that sole act is enough to turn you into an immature prick. It reached a point where I don't want to debate Vitiate just cause I don't want you to see it and have a bad day.

Btw, its amuses me to see you claim someone who Sidious can stomp is capable of defeating Vitiate where in many occasions you said Sidious vs Vitiate would be a good fight.



It's sad how Temps declined to the point where all he does now is throw a tantrum anytime he sees a post he doesn't like and chuckle over how "emotional" he's making everyone.

I don't even know what we're debating anymore.

Originally posted by Nephthys


It's sad how Temps declined to the point where all he does now is throw a tantrum anytime he sees a post he doesn't like and chuckle over how "emotional" he's making everyone. And he fails at even that as he acts more emotional than the people he accuses of being too emotional. A little bit of positivity would help him use his talent more efficiently tbh.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Darth Sidious was not going all-out against Starkiller in the canonized scenario because Sidious was interested in luring Starkiller to the Dark Side. In the alternate scenario, Sidious became serious and overwhelmed Starkiller with a single blast of Force Lightning.


Blast of FL combined with TK grip, yeah. I forgot that. Seems that Starkiller was temporary able to hold off Sidious' FL because Sidious wasn't going all-out or Starkiller gave much more then 100% from himself (just like Kenobi did against Maul bros).

Anyway, Vitiate comfortably then

Originally posted by Sinious
When did I do that exactly? You childishly said you won and bounced. Hardly my fault it ended prematurely.

mmm



Actually, you promised a response that you've yet to provide and have spiraled rapidly into attempted trolling.

Which sincerely pleases me. excellent

Originally posted by Sinious
I don't need to accuse you of anything bro. Your own posts prove how imbalanced you get every time Vitiate is mentioned. I've never ever done or said anything that would put us on bad terms other than wanking a character who isn't named Sidious. And that sole act is enough to turn you into an immature prick. It reached a point where I don't want to debate Vitiate just cause I don't want you to see it and have a bad day.

Originally posted by Sinious
And he fails at even that as he acts more emotional than the people he accuses of being too emotional. A little bit of positivity would help him use his talent more efficiently tbh.

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q248/Destroyer105/good.jpg

At least I'm doing you the courtesy of insulting you while refuting your arguments. The fact that I've driven you to such lengths is particularly gratifying.

Originally posted by Sinious
Btw, its amuses me to see you claim someone who Sidious can stomp is capable of defeating Vitiate where in many occasions you said Sidious vs Vitiate would be a good fight.

Nowhere does that require this particular iteration of Vitiate to be comparable to any and all iterations of Sidious. Starkiller can defeat this incarnation of Vitiate and yet Vitiate ultimately be a peer of Sidious. These things aren't mutually exclusive.

If you were thinking critically rather than emotionally, you'd understand that. excellent



.....Is this because Ant called me the best debater while he has no respect at all for you, a person who's views are more aligned with his? mmm

Originally posted by The_Tempest
.....Is this because Ant called me the best debater while he has no respect at all for you, a person who's views are more aligned with his? mmm

No, its what you actually do. It's really awkward tbh.

Originally posted by Nephthys
No, its what you actually do. It's really awkward tbh.

Neph, you and I go back so far I can read you like a book. I am in your very thoughts. You can pretend that you don't get emotional and never have, but your history and behavior demonstrate otherwise.

But beyond that, I'm spanking Sin here and bringing him ever closer to the dark side.

https://girloncomicbookworld.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/7114511.gif

No, thats the awkward thing. You think you can do that but you then you just randomly squeal that I'm unset and laugh in triumph but all I'm ever doing is making this face irl

Its like watching flat-earthers hi-5ing over their brilliant arguments while the opposition just looks into the camera like they're on the Office.

Also my reaction to Ant was more about the fact that everyone knows Nai shits in your eyes at every opportunity.

Originally posted by Nephthys
No, thats the awkward thing. You think you can do that but you then you just randomly squeal that I'm unset and laugh in triumph but all I'm ever doing is making this face irl

Its like watching flat-earthers hi-5ing over their brilliant arguments while the opposition just looks into the camera like they're on the Office.

http://media2.giphy.com/media/Fml0fgAxVx1eM/giphy.gif

Originally posted by Nephthys
Also my reaction to Ant was more about the fact that everyone knows Nai shits in your eyes at every opportunity.

Indeed? You should tell this guy.

That's a bizarre English expression btw. mmm

Yeah, dig up a 4 year old post to prove how totally not a over-invested loser you are. That'll work.

Past me was an idiot, practically nothing that guy says was ever right. Present me is well aware that Nai dominates you every time he posts and that I just had your back out of loyalty. Thankfully now I know that you're a huge douche so theres no chance of that anymore.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yeah, dig up a 4 year old post to prove how totally not a over-invested loser you are. That'll work.

Past me was an idiot, practically nothing that guy says was ever right. Present me is well aware that Nai dominates you every time he posts and that I just had your back out of loyalty. Thankfully now I know that you're a huge douche so theres no chance of that anymore.

Well thank God you're not getting emotional about this.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Well thank God you're not getting emotional about this.

That you're a huge douche, is merely a fact that I am stating clearly for the record. It comes from a place of acceptance, not rage. Please respect our differences, arseface.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Well thank God you're not getting emotional about this.

Originally posted by Nephthys
That you're a huge douche, is merely a fact that I am stating clearly for the record. It comes from a place of acceptance, not rage. Please respect our differences, arseface.

http://www.troll.me/images/grinning-emperor-palpatine/u-mad.jpg

This is why you have a reputation for emotional insecurity. All of this because Ant indicated that I'm a better debater than you.

Pro-tip: Any post where I reference Homestuck isn't one in which I'm angry.

tbh tho defending your emotional outbursts so extensively indicates that 1) you really care if people think you're emotional and 2) you probably are

just saying m7

Originally posted by Nephthys
Pro-tip: Any post where I reference Homestuck isn't one in which I'm angry.

No one here watches? reads? listens to? that shit tbh. mmm

Anyway, I quite honestly have nothing to do with your ongoing feud with Ant and I'd ask that you kindly leave me out of it. There's no need to besmirch our longstanding and rewarding friendship because you're upset with somebody else.