Saba Sebatyne vs Lord Scourge

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SunRazer
A lightsaber for each, standard morals, fight takes place in the Jundland Wastes.

1. Sabers

2. Force

3. All-out

a. Revan Scourge

b. SWTOR Scourge

SunRazer
Seriously?

carthage
Who has Scourge actually beaten in a duel? In the Revan novel he wasn't very impressive, and the arguments for him improving are basically him killing tons of fodder. Saba tore open an Abeloth avatar.

For the force she was able to manipulate Sekotan airships alongside Jacen, destroy a Durasteel door/gate structure on Upkezar, among other feats. I'm good with Saba

Q99
These are good arguments for Sebatyne.

S_W_LeGenD
a. Saba Sebatyne may overwhelm with her Force powers.

b. Emperor's Wrath solidly.

SunRazer
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
a. Saba Sebatyne may overwhelm with her Force powers.

b. Emperor's Wrath solidly.

Saba's MO is to fight physically, lol. And she was still skilled/powerful enough for Caedus to consider her a challenge.

carthage
Who has he actually beaten that compares to her mauling that Abeloth avatar?

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by carthage
Who has he actually beaten that compares to her mauling that Abeloth avatar?
I smell BS in this. Provide full information.

Luke Skywalker and Darth Krayt were barely able to defeat the avatar of Abeloth even with their joint efforts.

SunRazer
I'm not seeing Scourge taking anything solidly. Saba boasts monstrous physical attributes, and in terms of strength, probably outclasses Scourge. She seems faster as well, and Scourge probably only matches her in durability because he can't feel anything (which I assume would include pain). Otherwise, she's also more durable. She could also be somewhat more skilled, if anything.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by SunRazer
I'm not seeing Scourge taking anything solidly. Saba boasts monstrous physical attributes, and in terms of strength, probably outclasses Scourge. She seems faster as well, and Scourge probably only matches her in durability because he can't feel anything (which I assume would include pain). Otherwise, she's also more durable. She could also be somewhat more skilled, if anything.
I really doubt that Emperor's Wrath is disadvantaged in the matters of speed and skill in this contest. He fought Hero of Tython to a standstill.

Emperor's Wrath also have Shatterpoint and Consume Essence; two talents that may enable him to nullify any advantage of Sebatyne.

SunRazer
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I really doubt that Emperor's Wrath is disadvantaged in the matters of speed and skill in this contest. He fought Hero of Tython to a standstill.

Emperor's Wrath also have shatterpoint and consume essence; two talents that may enable him to nullify any advantage of Sebatyne.

I don't see why Consume Essence would matter here (he's not fighting a Sith), and Shatterpoint can be wildly unreliable in combat (it doesn't always surface, in fact it rarely does).

As for skill, Caedus considered Saba a challenge, which is probably a bit above Scourge. Either way, there's no way Scourge wins solidly.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by SunRazer
I don't see why Consume Essence would matter here,
It would:

"You have a special gift. You do not just feed on the raw emotions of your foe; you gorge yourself on them. You feast on their primal fear. It amplifies your hate and anger. It fuels the power of the Force. It transforms you into an instrument of death and destruction." (Darth Nyriss)

+

"The greater your opponent's connection to the Force, the stronger you become." (Darth Nyriss)

+

Scourge's savage and sudden assault, and the bloody carnage he left in his wake, sent them into a panic. He fed on their primal fears. Some he killed, others he left mortally wounded and writhing on the floor, their lives enduring for thirty or forty agonizing seconds while their high-pitched cries of pain fueled his bloodlust. Scourge drank in their terror and confusion, and felt the growing power of the dark side. (Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan)

Originally posted by SunRazer
and Shatterpoint can be wildly unreliable in combat (it doesn't always surface, in fact it rarely does).
It is not as unreliable as you make it sound to be. Satele Shan and Mace Windu immensely benefited from this talent in dire or difficult situations.

Originally posted by SunRazer
As for skill, Caedus considered Saba a challenge, which is probably a bit above Scourge. Either way, there's no way Scourge wins solidly.
Darth Caedus considered Kyle Katarn a challenge too. It is logical for Darth Caedus to perceive (any) powerful or skilled opponent as a challenge or threat. I am sure that Emperor's Wrath history would impress him way more then Kyle Katarn and Saba Sebatyne. It is (not) norm for an individual to have a kill-count of Jedi and Sith exceeding 1000 in galactic history.

SunRazer

S_W_LeGenD
@ SunRazer

1. Jedi also have emotions. Some are very good at concealing or controlling their emotions but not everybody.

2. I have not delved much into this subject but I am aware of the fact that Shatterpoint comes in handy in many situations. It is also useful for figuring-out tactical flaws in moves of an opponent in a duel.

He possesses an uncanny ability to analyze those around him to discover their weaknesses, and use that knowledge to his advantage. (Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Holonet)

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What do you mean by False Shatterpoint?

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3. This makes no sense. If somebody is powerful and/or skilled, and may stand in my way; it is logical for me to perceive him as a threat.

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Kyle Katarn was a legit threat:

Katarn, though, was a threat. (Taken from Star Wars: Legacy of the Force: Fury)

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Darth Caedus's perception of Saba Sebaytne is not a concrete proof of her abilities. Mace Windu held his colleagues Saesee Tiin, Agen Kolar and Kit Fisto in high esteem, perceived them as among the greatest warrior of the Jedi Order. In an actual fight with a competent Sith Lord however; Tiin, Kolar and Fisto dropped like flies.

The maximum you can argue is that Sebaytne is powerful and may prove to be a challenging opponent to Emperor's Wrath.

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Yes, quality is important. Jedi and Sith are quality individuals by default. And Emperor's Wrath was sent after most dangerous ones. Nobody is focusing on farmers. erm

SunRazer
1. Right, but it won't be of aid to Scourge.

2. The Shatterpoint that Mace thought he sensed turned out to be false.

3. Except Kit, Agen and Saesee have proven themselves, both with accolades and feats. So that's a pretty bad example, and Sidious isn't just a "competent Sith Lord", lmfao. Scourge would also be blitzed by Palpatine.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by SunRazer
1. Right, but it won't be of aid to Scourge.
We can only make assumptions about this matter. Logically, this boils down to mindset of Saba Sebatyne. However, Emperor's Wrath may use Dun Moch to influence her emotions.

Originally posted by SunRazer
2. The Shatterpoint that Mace thought he sensed turned out to be false.
Mace Windu managed to land a blow at Darth Sidious and cornered him. erm

Originally posted by SunRazer
3. Except Kit, Agen and Saesee have proven themselves, both with accolades and feats. So that's a pretty bad example, and Sidious isn't just a "competent Sith Lord", lmfao. Scourge would also be blitzed by Palpatine.
They don't live-up to their hype, IMO.

I seriously doubt that Emperor's Wrath can be blitzed. Hero of Tython (a Jedi fast enough to blitz two Sith assassins simultaneously) couldn't blitz him.

SunRazer
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
We can only make assumptions about this matter. Logically, this boils down to mindset of Saba Sebatyne. However, Emperor's Wrath may use Dun Moch to influence her emotions.


Mace Windu managed to land a blow at Darth Sidious and cornered him. erm


They don't live-up to their hype, IMO.

I seriously doubt that Emperor's Wrath can be blitzed. Hero of Tython (a Jedi fast enough to blitz two Sith assassins simultaneously) couldn't blitz him.

1. I don't recall Scourge doing that, and it probably won't work.

2. Right, and he later admits in the novel himself that the fear he sensed from Palpatine wasn't coming from Palpatine at all. It was a ploy. And the widely-supported stance on Palpatine deliberately losing in the fight is heavily implied in the novel, where he's aware of the Jedi coming for him long before they arrive and where he stalemated even the amped Mace Windu (who ended up winning by virtue of that Shatterpoint which turned out to be false).

3. Based on what? Agen has stomped Quinlan Vos within a page, Saesee has sparred evenly with Mace Windu for two pages, and Kit Fisto has handily destroyed a pair of Magnaguards (in the Dark Lord Trilogy, a single one of them can challenge Obi-Wan, and they're given lavish descriptions of their rather formidable abilities, as opposed to other sources where they're mostly high-class fodder). The likes of Shaak Ti and Obi-Wan have also deferred to them as some of the best in the Order's history.

Sidious has moved faster than Maul/Anakin can see, both of whom are immensely fast (faster than the Hero at that point in time).

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by SunRazer
1. I don't recall Scourge doing that, and it probably won't work.
His vast experience would logically encompass Dun Moch. He taunted Hero of Tython at the start of their confrontation.

Originally posted by SunRazer
2. Right, and he later admits in the novel himself that the fear he sensed from Palpatine wasn't coming from Palpatine at all. It was a ploy. And the widely-supported stance on Palpatine deliberately losing in the fight is heavily implied in the novel, where he's aware of the Jedi coming for him long before they arrive and where he stalemated even the amped Mace Windu (who ended up winning by virtue of that Shatterpoint which turned out to be false).
Shatterpoint was working; Darth Sidious was cornered and Anakin Skywalker arrived at the right moment. Unfortunately, Skywalker turned on Windu. But this is not a failure of Shatterpoint, this is failure of Foresight on part of Windu. It shall also be kept in mind that the Jedi Foresight abilities diminished under the shadow of imbalance in the Force.

If Windu had foreseen Skywalker's betrayal, I am sure that he could manage to escape from the setting.

Originally posted by SunRazer
3. Based on what? Agen has stomped Quinlan Vos within a page, Saesee has sparred evenly with Mace Windu for two pages, and Kit Fisto has handily destroyed a pair of Magnaguards (in the Dark Lord Trilogy, a single one of them can challenge Obi-Wan, and they're given lavish descriptions of their rather formidable abilities, as opposed to other sources where they're mostly high-class fodder). The likes of Shaak Ti and Obi-Wan have also deferred to them as some of the best in the Order's history.
You need to look deeper; Quinlan Vos returned the favor soon after and escaped from his clutches.

I don't take sparring contests as indicative of true skill of an individual. A sparring contest is a learning process, nothing more.

You are assuming that all Magnaguard units work flawlessly 24/7. They are machines, and machines can falter at times.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Sidious has moved faster than Maul/Anakin can see, both of whom are immensely fast (faster than the Hero at that point in time).
Force-users rely on their precognitive abilities and sheer force of will to contend with overwhelming odds.

FYI, one of the opponents of Darth Vader felt that he (i.e. Darth Vader) was faster then any Jedi he has known but was able to contend with the Sith Lord nonetheless. Similarly, Darth Bane was able to contend with Lord Kas'im on the basis of his sheer force of will and reliance on his precognitive potential.

That is speculation.

Q99
Mace gives out praise very freely, but Caedus reserves his more, and tends to be accurate.


Like, Kyle's a threat. I'd take that to mean, "Hm, if Kyle was part of the right strike team, that could very dangerous."

If Kyle, Saba, and Corran all came at him together, that'd be a real worry.

Ursumeles
Bump

MythLord
Saba feeds him his own foot.

Deronn_solo
Lord Scourge.

Taking out threats to Vitiate > Being a threat to Darth Caedus, The Jobber.

Ursumeles
Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Taking out threats to Vitiate
Yeah, I am still not sure wht the exact quote for this is. I've only found this:
I would interprete that as possible threaths to the Emperor, when they would grow in power.
Besides, I thought you would be more of a feat than a hype-guy.
Beside that, even scrubs like Novel Meetra and Novel Scourge are threaths to Vitate, it seems, as they seemingly could change the outcome of Vitiate vs Revan from The Emperor oneshotting Revan with a FLS, to Vitiate losing.

Deronn_solo
I wasn't being serious, lal.

Ursumeles
Lol.
Some people take the "OMG Scourge bested a threath to the Emperor!" to seriously, tho, imo. Or Asajj >>>> Marr smile

Geistalt
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I really doubt that Emperor's Wrath is disadvantaged in the matters of speed and skill in this contest. He fought Hero of Tython to a standstill.

Emperor's Wrath also have Shatterpoint What?

And you're direly underestimating Saba.

Dispray
Saba easily

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