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Just want to see all the different interpretations of the feat.

Well they were going to destroy the universe, so yes.

Duh.

That is exactly what I think. I have heard a few think differently about it though.

Originally posted by bbrem123
That is exactly what I think. I have heard a few think differently about it though.

Look who is thinking differently about it though and it was only one person who has a hate against DBZ.

Ok, I take it back, Beyonder is another and he has no credibility. Please do not pay him any attention. He can say that a universe wasn't destroyed but the ft overall is still Universal.

Yea I just wanted the select few to understand what happened. I am baffled that cant see the feat for what it was.

Originally posted by bbrem123
Yea I just wanted the select few to understand what happened. I am baffled that cant see the feat for what it was.

They can see it, they just do not want to accept it. They will never accept it. Goku could've pissed and blew up the Universe and they'll find some kind of way of discrediting the ft. People like that, it's best to say a couple of words to and call it a day.

Everyone out yondernod on ignore. He will just go away.

That is true^

I've heard a few state around the web that DBverse consists of 4 galaxies, but I specifically remember it being quadrants. Am I remembering things incorrectly?

In the case of the quadrants, it's not a very big deal since the actual universe is broken into 4 quadrants, as well.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/98/Observable_Universe_with_Measurements_01.png/1280px-Observable_Universe_with_Measurements_01.png
As Seen here.

There are a few references in the Daizenshuu which state that the DBU=4 galaxies, and each one of those galaxies represents 1 quadrant of the universe.

Could Toriyama end up throwing that out the window? Of course. We'll just have to wait and see if he opts to retcon that fact.

So with that being specified, is everyone leaving out the factual, non fictional ramifications of living in a universe so small? For matter to form in a world, roughly the size of a universe a few plank seconds after its birth would be remarkable. Primary forces would exist at absolute extremes, everywhere.

Well, according to the show's asinine logic, yes; absolutely. If, though, we were to even try and apply common sense and point out that shockwaves don't gain power as they travel, then maybe not.

I still think its silly how quickly the show went from planet to universe level destructive range.

Deathbattle: "Unfortunately for Goku, he still has limits. Superman on the other hand, has no limits."

I think your just silly and hating.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Well, according to the show's asinine logic, yes; absolutely. If, though, we were to even try and apply common sense and point out that shockwaves don't gain power as they travel, then maybe not.

That can actually happen.

I just want to add to my above statement. That is of course possible if what happened isn't actually a shockwave. I don't remember what occurred being call a wave, was it?

Originally posted by Galan007
There are a few references in the Daizenshuu which state that the DBU=4 galaxies, and each one of those galaxies represents 1 quadrant of the universe.

Could Toriyama end up throwing that out the window? Of course. We'll just have to wait and see if he opts to retcon that fact.

Such a tiny universe.

Not that it really matters. Heaven and Hell having a confirmed existence means that at least they must be functionally infinite in space to accommodate all intelligent/semi-intelligent life. Even with only 4 galaxies(which I also expect to be retconned) the sheer age of the universe would make it negligible. There doesn't seem to be any limits of space for the Other World.

Originally posted by Galan007
There are a few references in the Daizenshuu which state that the DBU=4 galaxies, and each one of those galaxies represents 1 quadrant of the universe.

Could Toriyama end up throwing that out the window? Of course. We'll just have to wait and see if he opts to retcon that fact.

However those 4 galaxies are many times referred as "cardinal galaxies" and are also called "areas"; Daizenshu 7 also states that these areas are simply administrational zones used by the Kais.

By Daizenshu 7:

銀河 Galaxy
A gathering of local planets in the universe. Planets gather and form a nebula, and beyond that, a collection of gathered nebulae is called a galaxy. The four Kaiou who rule over the east, west, south, and north of the universe actually govern these galaxies. Because the Kami in the Heavenly Realm and the Kaiou supervise the galaxies that exist infinitely in all the universe, the sections known as the East, West, South, and North Galaxies are denominations that came into use through their duty.

4 are thus the main zones (or quadrants, even if this specific term was nearly never used) of the DB Universe #7, but each of them contains an indefinite number of galaxies: all of this implies that the 7th DB Universe is just as big as every other universe.

It has also to be specified that, according to Herms, the japanese phrasing makes sure that the wording "North Galaxy" can be as well translated as "North Galaxies", when referring to King Kai's section of the universe.

Finally, just by looking at the following picture of Beerus and Whis in space you can clearly see a whole galaxy is behind them: if the DB Universe #7 were really so small and to be made of only 4 galaxies (in the sense of galaxy as in real life), it would then mean that, in this case, the picture below would be showing more than 1/4 of the whole DBU, with Beerus and Whis outside of said galaxy and thus compulsorily stating in one of the other 3 available ones.
Something which is obviously not true and, frankly, rather ridicolus/hilarious.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/39453/4814036-galaxy.jpg

Originally posted by Sj_Sharp
However those 4 galaxies are many times referred as "cardinal galaxies" and are also called "areas"; Daizenshu 7 also states that these areas are simply administrational zones used by the Kais.

By Daizenshu 7:

銀河 Galaxy
A gathering of local planets in the universe. Planets gather and form a nebula, and beyond that, a collection of gathered nebulae is called a galaxy. The four Kaiou who rule over the east, west, south, and north of the universe actually govern these galaxies. Because the Kami in the Heavenly Realm and the Kaiou supervise the galaxies that exist infinitely in all the universe, the sections known as the East, West, South, and North Galaxies are denominations that came into use through their duty.

4 are thus the main zones (or quadrants, even if this specific term was nearly never used) of the DB Universe #7, but each of them contains an indefinite number of galaxies: all of this implies that the 7th DB Universe is just as big as every other universe. There are at least 2 references in the Daizenshuu, and a reference in both 'DBZ Son Goku Densetsu' and the 'SEG: Character Volume', which state that there are 4 galaxies in the DB universe: north, south, east, and west--and each is governed by a corresponding Kaio/Kaioshin.

You can cherry-pick that one line which makes it sound like there are 'infinite' galaxies or w/e, but there is FAR more evidence on my side, I'm afraid(look it up.)

Originally posted by Sj_Sharp
It has also to be specified that, according to Herms, the japanese phrasing makes sure that the wording "North Galaxy" can be as well translated as "North Galaxies", when referring to King Kai's section of the universe. I'm glad you brought up Herms, because he is definitely of the opinion that there are only 4 galaxies in DB:




Etc.Etc.

...And nobody knows more about Guidebook translations then that guy.

Originally posted by Sj_Sharp
Finally, just by looking at the following picture of Beerus and Whis in space you can clearly see a whole galaxy is behind them: if the DB Universe #7 were really so small and to be made of only 4 galaxies (in the sense of galaxy as in real life), it would then mean that, in this case, the picture below would be showing more than 1/4 of the whole DBU, with Beerus and Whis outside of said galaxy and thus compulsorily stating in one of the other 3 available ones.
Something which is obviously not true and, frankly, rather ridicolus/hilarious.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/39453/4814036-galaxy.jpg I already mentioned that Toriyama might end up retconning the 4 galaxies fact in DBS. However, an ambiguous artistic depiction certainly doesn't constitute a retcon.

Originally posted by Astner
I thought it was four quadrants. As in a Kaioshin supervised a quadrant of the universe--denominated East, North, West and South quadrant. While a Kai supervised a galaxy--like the North Kai supervised the North galaxy.

It's not specified in the manga, but a Grand Kai is mentioned to be beneath a Kaioshin but above a regular Kai. The Guidebooks all use the term 'Areas' when referring to the portions of the universe. The term 'Quadrants' is a dub-line, but essentially refers to the same thing.

Also remember that unlike the Kaio and Dai Kaio, who mostly oversee the physical realm, Kaioshin oversee ALL realms in DB. Kaioshin are also responsible for creating worlds throughout the universe and seeding them with life... There is a LOT more to that job/title than most think.

So is Dragon Ball Super worth watching?

Originally posted by ares834
Well they were going to destroy the universe, so yes.

Duh.


Interestingly, it seems to have something to do with how the universe carries shockwaves and such, rather than raw at-point power. Like, it's not an explosion that destroys things, but multiple blows will create shockwaves that destroy things.


So, it's universe destroying but reliant on the resonance of their universe.

Originally posted by Damborgson
Deathbattle: "Unfortunately for Goku, he still has limits. Superman on the other hand, has no limits."

Pssh, there's multiple characters stronger than him. Pre-crisis may have no limits, but post does.

Originally posted by Q99
Interestingly, it seems to have something to do with how the universe carries shockwaves and such, rather than raw at-point power. Like, it's not an explosion that destroys things, but multiple blows will create shockwaves that destroy things.


So, it's universe destroying but reliant on the resonance of their universe.
So you're saying this is a universal feat only in the DBverse?

Originally posted by Astner
So is Dragon Ball Super worth watching?

To me? I'd say yes.
I liked a lot the first episodes, then it had an abysmal low-quality period (I'm still shocked for Episode 5 ) but now It's going quite good.
I would pick the manga over the anime anytime, however the former lacks some context since it must be much more stringent.
Another thing you have to remember though is that DBS is "new Dragon Ball material", i.e. something where things happen randomly and sometime contradict themselves: if your love for DB is strong enough to overcome this (mine is, but barely... ) then the show is worth the time.

Originally posted by bbrem123
So you're saying this is a universal feat only in the DBverse?

Or other universe with similar properties, yea.


In DC, it'd probably cause time-retcons or something, because that's what happens when you mess with the universal frequency there.

Originally posted by Q99
Or other universe with similar properties, yea.


In DC, it'd probably cause time-retcons or something, because that's what happens when you mess with the universal frequency there. Gotcha

Multi-galaxy level at the minimum.

Originally posted by Q99
Or other universe with similar properties, yea.


In DC, it'd probably cause time-retcons or something, because that's what happens when you mess with the universal frequency there.

To be fair gods in this universe play by their own rules. Physics can suck it.

the feat was collaborative doenst mean each can do it individually... still impressive tho

It was a universal feat no matter how you slice it. The fact they were going to do in in 3 blows makes it that much more impressive.

Also question about the DBverse. So we have the N,S,E,W Kai's that watch over what? Then we had the N,S,E,W Kaioshin watch over?

The Kai's watch over the infinite Quandrants. The Grand Kai watch over the overseers of these Quandrants and the Supreme Kai watches over everything along with creating.

but there were 4 kaioshin originally as well as the 4 kai's. What did they watch over before they were killed by buu.

Each Kaio watches over their respective galaxy/area of the universe. The Dai Kaio(Grand Kai) supervises the Kaio.

The Kaioshin not only supervise the Dai Kaio and Kaio, but they also monitor the universe as a whole. Additionally, they monitor all of the metaphysical realms within the DBU, like Heaven, Hell, Limbo, the Demon realm, etc. etc. It is also the job of Kaioshin to create planets throughout the universe and seed them with life--a task that would be absolutely time-consuming in itself.

It's no wonder Kaioshin was out of touch with the happenings of the mortal realm during the Boo saga--he had to do all of that by himself.

ahh ok. It is just confusing because they also have the north, south, east and west titles. What reason is that title even there?

Back in the day, the South Kaioshin, for example, would have more closely monitored the happenings of that particular galaxy/area(he might see things the Kaio did not), and would have also been responsible for the 'upkeep'(ie. the creation of worlds/lifeforms) within that portion of the universe... That's what the function of each Kaioshin would have been.

Originally posted by Galan007
Back in the day, the South Kaioshin, for example, would have more closely monitored the happenings of that particular galaxy/area(he might see things the Kaio did not), and would have also been responsible for the 'upkeep'(ie. the creation of worlds/lifeforms) within that portion of the universe... That's what the function of each Kaioshin would have been.

Originally posted by Damborgson
Deathbattle: "Unfortunately for Goku, he still has limits. Superman on the other hand, has no limits."

No. SHIT.

lol

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
No. SHIT.

lol

Look at this pussy whipped dodging duck, how easy for you to dodge the GT vs DBS threads.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Look at this pussy whipped dodging duck, how easy for you to dodge the GT vs DBS threads.

If only you could understand how beneath me it is to argue with an undeveloped simian like yourself. I know you'll never accept the fact that SSJ2 GT Goku could rofl-stomp the entirety of DBS, even though it is simple fact.

Just because GT isn't cannon to DBZ/DBS, doesn't mean that they aren't cannon to it. And base Goku from GT is stronger than Super Buu from DBZ. Meaning he's over 8 times stronger than SSJ3 DBZ Goku. Even if SSJ3 DBZ Goku was only 1% as strong as Beerus, that would still make base GT Goku over 8% as strong as him. So SSJ1 GT Goku would already be 400% Beerus level, or 4X stronger than Beerus. Meaning that he would be stronger than Whiss. In SSJ1. And this is all lowballing.

But it doesn't matter, because you, like a child, don't like it, therefor won't accept it. So continue with your laughably hypocritical insults, because you're just getting yourself reported more and more.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
If only you could understand how beneath me it is to argue with an undeveloped simian like yourself. I know you'll never accept the fact that SSJ2 GT Goku could rofl-stomp the entirety of DBS, even though it is simple fact.

Just because GT isn't cannon to DBZ/DBS, doesn't mean that they aren't cannon to it. And base Goku from GT is stronger than Super Buu from DBZ. Meaning he's over 8 times stronger than SSJ3 DBZ Goku. Even if SSJ3 DBZ Goku was only 1% as strong as Beerus, that would still make base GT Goku over 8% as strong as him. So SSJ1 GT Goku would already be 400% Beerus level, or 4X stronger than Beerus. Meaning that he would be stronger than Whiss. In SSJ1. And this is all lowballing.

But it doesn't matter, because you, like a child, don't like it, therefor won't accept it. So continue with your laughably hypocritical insults, because you're just getting yourself reported more and more.

Please just stop...

You are the only one who thinks GT is superior. These numbers you are presenting mean absolutely nothing when you have characters destroying the universe with their punches. I didn't see SS4 Gogeta and Omega Shenron doing that. You know why, because he cant.

I just think you like GT characters more and refuse to see them as inferior. Everybody has their opinions I guess. (even if they are complete wrong like yours)

Originally posted by bbrem123
Please just stop...

You are the only one who thinks GT is superior. These numbers you are presenting mean absolutely nothing when you have characters destroying the universe with their punches. I didn't see SS4 Gogeta and Omega Shenron doing that. You know why, because he cant.

I just think you like GT characters more and refuse to see them as inferior. Everybody has their opinions I guess. (even if they are complete wrong like yours)

Literally everyone else agree's with me.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f74/t616287.html

Literally the only person I need on my side here is Galan though. And again, feats are feats, but statements count just as well, because of how linearly feats work in DBZ/S/GT. If someone has a higher power level than Goku, he can perform greater feats than Goku. That simple.

Meaning that SSJ Goku from GT would be universe level as well, considering that he would already be stronger than Whiss.

And in DBS, Beerus stated he was using 10% against SSJ2 Vegeta. And Vegeta still surprised him with several hits. Meaning that SSJ2 Vegeta would have been at least 5% Beerus level, and if not that, then 1% is the lowest we could reasonably assume, given that a gap of just 2X in DBZ was enough to account for a total casual stomp like the one Gohan gave Cell. And a gap of just 50% was enough for Whiss to ONE-SHOT Beerus.

So even assuming ALL THAT, and lowballing it as much as possible, GT base Goku would still be AT LEAST 8% Beerus level. Meaning that, with the 50X SSJ multiplier, he would be 4 times stronger than him as a SSJ1. Which means he'd be effectively 3.5 times stronger than Whiss. And keep in mind, these are bare minimums.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Literally everyone else agree's with me.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f74/t616287.html

Literally the only person I need on my side here is Galan though. And again, feats are feats, but statements count just as well, because of how linearly feats work in DBZ/S/GT. If someone has a higher power level than Goku, he can perform greater feats than Goku. That simple.

Meaning that SSJ Goku from GT would be universe level as well, considering that he would already be stronger than Whiss.

And in DBS, Beerus stated he was using 10% against SSJ2 Vegeta. And Vegeta still surprised him with several hits. Meaning that SSJ2 Vegeta would have been at least 5% Beerus level, and if not that, then 1% is the lowest we could reasonably assume, given that a gap of just 2X in DBZ was enough to account for a total casual stomp like the one Gohan gave Cell. And a gap of just 50% was enough for Whiss to ONE-SHOT Beerus.

So even assuming ALL THAT, and lowballing it as much as possible, GT base Goku would still be AT LEAST 8% Beerus level. Meaning that, with the 50X SSJ multiplier, he would be 4 times stronger than him as a SSJ1. Which means he'd be effectively 3.5 times stronger than Whiss. And keep in mind, these are bare minimums. I legit don't know anybody that agrees with you. Only person I can think of is BeyonderGod and he is a fool. The numbers are great and all. DBS just proves that these attempt to use numbers to determine power do not work at all. I can't see how you can argue these calculations of yours over the actual crazy feats that we have seen in DBS.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Just because GT isn't cannon to DBZ/DBS, doesn't mean that they aren't cannon to it.

Kibito Kai being defused means that DBS is in no way connected to GT. It is an actual impossibility.

Toryiama even said they have nothing to do with each other. Cant get any more clear than that.

Gogeta is a moron.

Gogeta, How would you think GT Characters is still more powerful then God Goku or even Beerus who done universal feats? Whlie GT has none?

Even Galan thinks DBS-era power>GT-era power now thanks to EP.12

Everyone stop the name calling.

Now.

Originally posted by bbrem123
I legit don't know anybody that agrees with you. Only person I can think of is BeyonderGod and he is a fool. The numbers are great and all. DBS just proves that these attempt to use numbers to determine power do not work at all. I can't see how you can argue these calculations of yours over the actual crazy feats that we have seen in DBS.

You can't just ignore the statements, and numbers, bro. I just gave cold, hard proof that the GT characters would be logically stronger than the Super characters. Why are you, of all people, pushing for feats right now, when Goku still hasn't even blown up a planet? We all know Goku could blow up a planet by accidentally farting too hard at this point, but he's never done it, so by the logic you're throwing around, he can't.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
Kibito Kai being defused means that DBS is in no way connected to GT. It is an actual impossibility.

I actually didn't get to finish the twelfth episode, so I just now found out about this. I could still argue though, that they refuse at some point.

Originally posted by Blockythe1guy
Gogeta, How would you think GT Characters is still more powerful then God Goku or even Beerus who done universal feats? Whlie GT has none?

Even Galan thinks DBS-era power>GT-era power now thanks to EP.12

The feats don't mean that much, lol. There were statements that put characters at universe level in GT.

But I am starting to get skeptical about this, because of the Kibitoshin thing. It doesn't change the fact though, that if you take base GT Goku, he would still be the same level as 8% Beerus, like I said. Simply given the fact that he's 8 times stronger than SSJ3 Goku. And this is putting SSJG at a 60X boost to SSJ3, so I'm being ridiculously generous with this.

So presumably, the same exact feats could be replicated by SSJ1 GT Goku, who by simple scaling, would be stronger than Whiss.

And even with the most lowballing possible, putting base GT Goku as SSJ3 DBZ Goku's equal, that would STILL mean that SSJ2 GT Goku would be Beerus's HARD equal, with him being 4X stronger than Beerus in SSJ3, and conversely still 3.5 times stronger than Whiss.

Sorry man. You are alone with thinking GT is superior. The numbers can only take you so far with how powerful they are. DBS is just on another level.

Originally posted by bbrem123
Sorry man. You are alone with thinking GT is superior. The numbers can only take you so far with how powerful they are. DBS is just on another level.

You literally just said I was wrong, and then repeated me.

The numbers put GT above DBS, by a large margin.

But the feats simply aren't comparable. The DBS feat of destroying a universe with a punch, is literally unfathomably greater than Superman's greatest feats. The only Superman who can compare, is the Thought Robot, and Goku/Beerus achieved this feat CASUALLY while not even using full power.

Honestly, Dragon Ball Super has already put the DBZ characters at levels above Sailor Moon, Superman, Akira, and on the level of the massive high/god tiers from series like Tenchi Muyo. Even DC God tiers can't compare to universe busting with a punch, and flying across galaxies in just a few seconds.

Im just saying the numbers are obviously inaccurate/dont mean anything.

Originally posted by bbrem123
Im just saying the numbers are obviously inaccurate/dont mean anything.

No, they're accurate. And if someone who didn't use godly ki, say like Goten or Trunks, got the point one day where they were stronger than Super Buu in their base forms, then they would be stronger than current Whiss and Beerus as SSJ1's.

But GT is completely irrelevant, as of current. Meaning that it might as well not even exist. So they have only feats to rely on, meaning that SSJ4 tiers are around Saiyan Saga Vegeta level now.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
No, they're accurate. And if someone who didn't use godly ki, say like Goten or Trunks, got the point one day where they were stronger than Super Buu in their base forms, then they would be stronger than current Whiss and Beerus as SSJ1's.
This is not true at all. Feats say otherwise. This Beerus/Goku feats proves the numbers are wrong. No way around it. We would have seen similiar feats if they were "stronger" like you imply.

Originally posted by bbrem123
This is not true at all. Feats say otherwise. This Beerus/Goku feats proves the numbers are wrong. No way around it. We would have seen similiar feats if they were "stronger" like you imply.

What the hell did I just say?

The numbers are CORRECT. The feats do not match up.

This is the simple reason why GT is now weaker. Marginally.

What about this don't you understand? You're literally rephrasing my words, and acting as though you're disagreeing with me.

The simple fact of the matter is that GT should have multiversal/omniversal level feats, instead of planetary ones. This is what's called AN INCONSISTENCY. Meaning that we cannot accept it or consider it.

Again though, "if someone who didn't use godly ki, say like Goten or Trunks, got the point one day where they were stronger than Super Buu in their base forms, then they would be stronger than current Whiss and Beerus as SSJ1's."

^ This remains true. Meaning that Beerus is only AT BEST 100 times stronger than SSJ3 DBZ Goku. So anyone who is MORE than 100 times stronger than SSJ3 DBZ Goku is ALSO stronger than Beerus. What don't you understand about this?

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
What the hell did I just say?

The numbers are CORRECT. The feats do not match up.

This is the simple reason why GT is now weaker. Marginally.

What about this don't you understand? You're literally rephrasing my words, and acting as though you're disagreeing with me.

The simple fact of the matter is that GT should have multiversal/omniversal level feats, instead of planetary ones. This is what's called AN INCONSISTENCY. Meaning that we cannot accept it or consider it.

Again though, "if someone who didn't use godly ki, say like Goten or Trunks, got the point one day where they were stronger than Super Buu in their base forms, then they would be stronger than current Whiss and Beerus as SSJ1's."

^ This remains true. Meaning that Beerus is only AT BEST 100 times stronger than SSJ3 DBZ Goku. So anyone who is MORE than 100 times stronger than SSJ3 DBZ Goku is ALSO stronger than Beerus. What don't you understand about this? No the numbers are incorrect. Which means the numbers are meaningless and misleading. Do you see what I'm saying? If the numbers were correct we would see feats that match said numbers. But that is not the case.

Why don't you guys just agree that SSJ God ki is different from a static modifier? Not x50 or x100 but a power up that lets the wielder be as strong as he needs to be.

The fact that Beerus quantifies his power numerically(ie. by percentages) means that SSJG can as well... Which means that a static multiplier is certainly in the realm of possibility.

It is but how trust worthy are these numbers they are spitting out. Im gonna bet they are very unreliable.

I know when I fight I give it 110% every time.

hahaha ^

Originally posted by AuraAngel
I know when I fight I give it 110% every time.

No, you don't. Your muscles have a maximum capacity, just like everything in existence, that exists outside of infinitude.

Like ki. And Godly ki.

They can be measured.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
The only Superman who can compare, is the Thought Robot, and Goku/Beerus achieved this feat CASUALLY while not even using full power.

Nobody is even bothering about this, maybe even rightfully so; however, my eyes are bleeding every, single time I read it, so I'll be the one who is going to intervene...

Please, please, for the very love of the almighty God, stop bringing Thought Robot Superman in this: you don't even know what you are talking about and no, SSG and Beerus don't compare with it, they are not even remotely close to be able to understand what the TR even is, let alone to compare to it.

So, just stop and let it go.
Thanks.

http://margethelarge.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/make-it-stop-o.gif

Originally posted by Sj_Sharp
Nobody is even bothering about this, maybe even rightfully so; however, my eyes are bleeding every, single time I read it, so I'll be the one who is going to intervene...

Please, please, for the very love of the almighty God, stop bringing Thought Robot Superman in this: you don't even know what you are talking about and no, SSG and Beerus don't compare with it, they are not even remotely close to be able to understand what the TR even is, let alone to compare to it.

So, just stop and let it go.
Thanks.

http://margethelarge.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/make-it-stop-o.gif

The only reason I'm bringing the Thought robot into this is because it's the only incantation of Superman that could stand a chance against Goku or Beerus at this point.

And the Goku and Beerus's universe punch feat puts them on a similar level to the Thought Robot, going by feats.

I just finished viewing ep 13 with subs and I ask is there anyone left disputing the fact that, Beerus at least, is more than capable of destroying the universe? At 100% power, he casually nullified a blast that was capable of just that.

It's starting to come together as to why more universes are needed. We are only 13 episodes in and the 1st villian is capable of this.

Pretty sure Frieza will get some insane fts as well.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Thought robot could stand a chance against Goku or Beerus at this point.

And the Goku and Beerus's universe punch feat puts them on a similar level to the Thought Robot, going by feats.

No.

Dont bother even debating with him. ^

Don't know about not registering to Beerus and Goku but I would put the thought Robot above both.

Guys, guys, listen to me: there's no point in bringing Thought Robot in this thread, since it is a character on a complete different level of existence and power.
No matter how strong SSG Goku and Beerus punch or kick, there are literally countless tiers of difference in power between them and Thought Robot Superman, as there are more or less countless tiers of difference between every other version of Superman and Thought Robot itself.

TR was a "one-time show", a literal Deus ex Machina on a metatextual level, so it's better to just stop and move on.

Did I see Beerus casually nullify a universe destroying blast at 100% in ep 13? I wonder how powerful the Blue Goku and Vegeta are in comparison.

Originally posted by U need Leonard
I wonder how powerful the Blue Goku and Vegeta are in comparison. It's hard to say what route Toriyama will go with them at this point.

The RoF material all describes BSSJG as basically a more perfected version of SSJG. However, if DBS sticks with that concept, then BSSJG Goku and BSSJG Vegeta would each be more powerful than Beerus individually... And possibly able to contend with Whis as a team... Which means that Beerus/Whis would begin their downward spiral into irrelevancy... Which I REALLY hope does not happen.

Meh, I wish Tori would have kept things like they were before, and not altered BoG so much. It was much more tidy and made loads more sense, imho. /shrug

Agreed. I hope what I fear about Beerus/Whis does not come to pass.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Agreed. I hope what I fear about Beerus/Whis does not come to pass. What's that?

What you said here.

Originally posted by Galan007
However, if DBS sticks with that concept, then BSSJG Goku and BSSJG Vegeta would each be more powerful than Beerus individually... And possibly able to contend with Whis as a team... Which means that Beerus/Whis would begin their downward spiral into irrelevancy...
If they actually go there, then phuck the show. Movies will remain my headcanon.

It will probably go there since Goku is currently matching Bills at 100% and Goku during the show will continue to become stronger.

I hope Beerus and Whis don't become irrelevant, let's hope that after all these years, Mr. Toriyama has changed up his story telling in that regard.

I would hope that if Beerus and Whis are removed from the plot it's because they refuse to engage in Earthly affairs, rather than just being weak.

Originally posted by carver9
It will probably go there since Goku is currently matching Bills at 100% and Goku during the show will continue to become stronger. Which would be a tremendous shame, given that Beerus/Whis are some of the best(and most original) characters we've ever had in DB.

Well yeah but it is kinda impossible for the story of a guy who wants to get stronger and stronger to be satisfying if he spends the entire show being weaker than those two guys from episode one.

I don't necessarily mind Goku/Vegeta becoming more powerful than Beerus. I just don't want the latter to dwindle into a minor character that random ocks end up tooling. Keep him relevent... He's the best character we've had since Android #16.

ermmgrin

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
What the hell did I just say?

The numbers are CORRECT. The feats do not match up.

This is the simple reason why GT is now weaker. Marginally.

What about this don't you understand? You're literally rephrasing my words, and acting as though you're disagreeing with me.

The simple fact of the matter is that GT should have multiversal/omniversal level feats, instead of planetary ones. This is what's called AN INCONSISTENCY. Meaning that we cannot accept it or consider it.

Again though, "if someone who didn't use godly ki, say like Goten or Trunks, got the point one day where they were stronger than Super Buu in their base forms, then they would be stronger than current Whiss and Beerus as SSJ1's."

^ This remains true. Meaning that Beerus is only AT BEST 100 times stronger than SSJ3 DBZ Goku. So anyone who is MORE than 100 times stronger than SSJ3 DBZ Goku is ALSO stronger than Beerus. What don't you understand about this?


I will note that GT does have one universal feat, Omega Shenron's energy was said to threaten the universe.

^ It was also stated that Omega's energy would destroy the Kaioshin Realm as well--which means that it, too, had the potential to transcend the mortal sphere/universe:
http://i.imgur.com/DUYhbJO.png
http://i.imgur.com/bJKrLW9.png

ie. if left unchecked, Omega was potentially a trans-universal power as well.


*I'm not trying to compare Omega to SSJG/Beerus, or whatever. I'm just corroborating Q99's statement.

Originally posted by Galan007
I don't necessarily mind Goku/Vegeta becoming more powerful than Beerus. I just don't want the latter to dwindle into a minor character that random ocks end up tooling. Keep him relevent... He's the best character we've had since Android #16.

ermmgrin

Goku becoming ,more powerful than beerus/whis , ultimately becoming the protector of the universe or something would just be another excuse for Goku to leave his wife and kids abandoned as usual.

Never change Goku

Originally posted by Sj_Sharp
Guys, guys, listen to me: there's no point in bringing Thought Robot in this thread, since it is a character on a complete different level of existence and power.
No matter how strong SSG Goku and Beerus punch or kick, there are literally countless tiers of difference in power between them and Thought Robot Superman, as there are more or less countless tiers of difference between every other version of Superman and Thought Robot itself.

TR was a "one-time show", a literal Deus ex Machina on a metatextual level, so it's better to just stop and move on.

It's mostly featless, other than being able to defeat Mandrakk.

And it being a plot device doesn't immediately mean that it's un-defeatable. One punch man's strength is a plot device, and Goku would kill him with a fart. Different series, bro.

Originally posted by carver9
It will probably go there since Goku is currently matching Bills at 100% and Goku during the show will continue to become stronger.

Who knows? Maybe Beerus will continue to grow stronger now as well... Although he'll likely just become a new Krillin.

Originally posted by Galan007
^ It was also stated that Omega's energy would destroy the Kaioshin Realm as well--which means that it, too, had the potential to transcend the mortal sphere/universe:
http://i.imgur.com/DUYhbJO.png
http://i.imgur.com/bJKrLW9.png

ie. if left unchecked, Omega was potentially a trans-universal power as well.


*I'm not trying to compare Omega to SSJG/Beerus, or whatever. I'm just corroborating Q99's statement.

Well it was also stated that Kid Buu could destroy the Kaioshin realm as well. That's not a universe feat, that's a feat of being stronger than anyone in the series.

Goku and Beerus were going to DESTROY the universe, with three measly punches.

Originally posted by Galan007
Which would be a tremendous shame, given that Beerus/Whis are some of the best(and most original) characters we've ever had in DB.

No kidding. I will honestly be really upset if Beerus and Whiss become chump change. Although I KNOW that it HAS to happen, because Goku will be getting ridiculously stronger throughout Dragon Ball Super.

If we see a difference even RESEMBLING how big of a difference there was between beginning and end of series Goku from Dragon Ball, and Dragon Ball Z, then Beerus and Whiss will literally be considered the new Roshi and Krillin of the series. And that thought is kinda depressing, given how awesome and unique the two are as characters.

Originally posted by Galan007
I don't necessarily mind Goku/Vegeta becoming more powerful than Beerus. I just don't want the latter to dwindle into a minor character that random ocks end up tooling. Keep him relevent... He's the best character we've had since Android #16.

ermmgrin

We're definitely going to see Beerus and Whiss become weaklings in comparison to Goku and Vegeta, but to what degree still remains unclear.

Hell, who knows, they could both start training to stay ahead of Goku and Vegeta.

If they don't though, I still can't see any characters being able to even touch Beerus or Whiss at their current level, unless they're also gods, or multi-dimensional demons like Janemba or something. Which, imo, would be PRETTY awesome for them to re-introduce the idea of, into Dragon Ball Super.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
It's mostly featless, other than being able to defeat Mandrakk.

And it being a plot device doesn't immediately mean that it's un-defeatable. One punch man's strength is a plot device, and Goku would kill him with a fart. Different series, bro.


Again, no.
Also, you did really put One Punch Man and Thought Robot in the same sentence... wow.
Besides such an obvious trollfest, I'm well aware of Saitama and his plot-strength, indeed I'm asking you now how can you be so confident and sure that Goku would kill him with a fart, when basically Saitama never went serious in any of his fights and his potential is yet to be even discovered.

Originally posted by Sj_Sharp
Again, no.
Also, you did really put One Punch Man and Thought Robot in the same sentence... wow.
Besides such an obvious trollfest, I'm well aware of Saitama and his plot-strength, indeed I'm asking you now how can you be so confident and sure that Goku would kill him with a fart, when basically Saitama never went serious in any of his fights and his potential is yet to be even discovered.

Again, yes. Nice argument.

And... no, I didn't put them in the same sentence? You just did though, idiot.

I'm as confident that Goku would beat Saitama with a fart as I am that the Thought Robot would. Simply because of the fact that Saitama using his serious series is planet buster level.

Universe level is on a completely different scale. You not realizing that proves why this debate is pointless, on my behalf.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Again, yes. Nice argument.

And... no, I didn't put them in the same sentence? You just did though, idiot.

I'm as confident that Goku would beat Saitama with a fart as I am that the Thought Robot would. Simply because of the fact that Saitama using his serious series is planet buster level.

Universe level is on a completely different scale. You not realizing that proves why this debate is pointless, on my behalf.

So you report others for insulting you, yet you do it to others, what is that called btw chimp?

I figure that the universe was initially in danger because Goku's and Beerus' ki were clashing head on, each trying to out power the other, as symbolized by the twin dragons.

The later stages of the fight devolved to an unceremonious physical bout, "just a brawl", so we didn't have those universal energy waves spewing about.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Again, yes. Nice argument.

And... no, I didn't put them in the same sentence? You just did though, idiot.

I don't have any argument to be made here, since it's obvious that SSG Goku and Thought Robot exist on completely different planes of existence and power. Just in case, the burden is on you to prove that they are even comparable (which they aren't, obvious thing for people who read FC and actually know what they are talking about).

Yes you did:

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
And it being a plot device doesn't immediately mean that it's un-defeatable. One punch man's strength is a plot device, and Goku would kill him with a fart. Different series, bro.

^This statement alone proves you literally have no clue what you are saying here.
Also, you are direct to personal insults eh? Am I really the one who is the idiot here?
Other than me, there are few users here who actually know about DB yet who have also read Final Crisis: maybe you aren't capable to grasp this, but they are completely ignoring your utter bullshit.
However, opposite to them, I actually chose to talk with you about this, and you, instead of feeling honored I'm really wasting my time trying to make a retard like you understand, blatantly come straight to personal insults?
Oh boy, you are such a comedian.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Simply because of the fact that Saitama using his serious series is planet buster level.

Thing which you can't be so sure about since One Punch Man is still on going and has probably still plenty to show about Saitama's level of power.
You can't assume a definitve position if you don't know what's yet to come, unless you are One Punch Man editor, of course.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Universe level is on a completely different scale. You not realizing that proves why this debate is pointless, on my behalf.

Am I the one not realizing the scales of power?
This "debate" (lol, debate) is pointless on your behalf?

The irony is strong with this one. Please go on sir, you are making my and rest of forum users' day.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
I figure that the universe was initially in danger because Goku's and Beerus' ki were clashing head on, each trying to out power the other, as symbolized by the twin dragons.

The later stages of the fight devolved to an unceremonious physical bout, "just a brawl", so we didn't have those universal energy waves spewing about.

They clashed a couple of times without ki energy being around them.

Originally posted by Sj_Sharp
I don't have any argument to be made here, since it's obvious that SSG Goku and Thought Robot exist on completely different planes of existence and power. Just in case, the burden is on you to prove that they are even comparable (which they aren't, obvious thing for people who read FC and actually know what they are talking about).

Yes you did:



^This statement alone proves you literally have no clue what you are saying here.
Also, you are direct to personal insults eh? Am I really the one who is the idiot here?
Other than me, there are few users here who actually know about DB yet who have also read Final Crisis: maybe you aren't capable to grasp this, but they are completely ignoring your utter bullshit.
However, opposite to them, I actually chose to talk with you about this, and you, instead of feeling honored I'm really wasting my time trying to make a retard like you understand, blatantly come straight to personal insults?
Oh boy, you are such a comedian.



Thing which you can't be so sure about since One Punch Man is still on going and has probably still plenty to show about Saitama's level of power.
You can't assume a definitve position if you don't know what's yet to come, unless you are One Punch Man editor, of course.



Am I the one not realizing the scales of power?
This "debate" (lol, debate) is pointless on your behalf?

The irony is strong with this one. Please go on sir, you are making my and rest of forum users' day.

I love how Gogeta thinks everyone is agreeing with him but at the same time he is disagreeing with everyone else.

What kind of baffonery is that?

Buy Gogeta flowers and ask him out for a dinner. You can't stop thinking about him.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Buy Gogeta flowers and ask him out for a dinner. You can't stop thinking about him.

I would rather take you out on a date.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
I love how Gogeta thinks everyone is agreeing with him but at the same time he is disagreeing with everyone else.

What kind of baffonery is that?

I surely don't mind well pondered, different opinions, this is a forum made to discuss after all.
What I can't stand is stubborn people who don't even know what they are talking about and yet, despite knowing nothing on that specific argument, continuously ride their high horses, speaking BS and not accepting to be completely wrong (also even resorting to name calling, as in this specific case).
A bit disappointing if you ask me.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Buy Gogeta flowers and ask him out for a dinner. You can't stop thinking about him.



This had me rolling, especially because of how blatantly true it is.

Originally posted by Sj_Sharp
I surely don't mind well pondered, different opinions, this is a forum made to discuss after all.
What I can't stand is stubborn people who don't even know what they are talking about and yet, despite knowing nothing on that specific argument, continuously ride their high horses, speaking BS and not accepting to be completely wrong (also even resorting to name calling, as in this specific case).
A bit disappointing if you ask me.

Your entire argument can be boiled down to a simple sentence. "Superman wins because he's superman.", with no feats, scans, or even simple arguments to back that ludicrous statement up.

If anything's disappointing here, it's the lack of chromosomes present in the majority of posters on this thread.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Your entire argument can be boiled down to a simple sentence. "Superman wins because he's superman.", with no feats, scans, or even simple arguments to back that ludicrous statement up.

If anything's disappointing here, it's the lack of chromosomes present in the majority of posters on this thread.

Let's do a thing: let's just restart from the beginning, forgetting name calling and such, since we are both better than that. Ok?

Now, answer my question seriously and this is not insulting or anything, just a legit doubt: do you even know what Thought Robot Superman is and what you are talking about right now?

You clearly don't because, if you did, you'd obviously realize by yourself that this conversation is pointless and hilarious.
Even if by the end of Super a SSGSS3 Vegetto would appear, he would still be less than nothing compared to the CA in the grand scheme of things, in the same way the 12 DB Universes are nothing as a whole compared to what the operating level and purpose of the CA were in FC-SB.
I could easily prove all of this to you by means of scans, actual context and statements (even from GM himself), but:

1) We'd be awfully off-topic (we already are, btw).
2) It'd take a hell of a lot of time.

So, just take my honest and sincere advice: go and read the FC-SB arc, document yourself about it by going beyond the standalone scans you can find with Google and beyond the comments from people who didn't read it.
Then, once you have done it, you'll come here and we'll have a laugh together at the idea of SSG Goku being comparable to the Thought Robot.

Peace.

Originally posted by bbrem123
That is exactly what I think. I have heard a few think differently about it though. Originally posted by bbrem123
Yea I just wanted the select few to understand what happened. I am baffled that cant see the feat for what it was. i think goku will win here

Originally posted by bbrem123
That is exactly what I think. I have heard a few think differently about it though. Originally posted by U need Leonard
That can actually happen. i think goku will win her