Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Duel takes place on Jakku

What has Kyp actually done with a lightsaber? Apart from some sparring and taking some low-ranking Vong, I don't recall him actually having any serious duels. All his real feats are either for Force or piloting.

Take it away, DC.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Take it away, DC.

I think being one of the greatest swordsman in the NJO, and placed on an even playing field with the likes of Kyle Katarn is enough to justify Kyp's superiority over Savage. If not, his vastly superior connection to the Force, and precognitive abilities should seal it.

Those still don't show what he's actually done, just what other people think about him. It's a presumption about how good he is, but not evidence that he actually is that good.

Originally posted by DarthBeanzz
Those still don't show what he's actually done, just what other people think about him.

And they think these things about him, because they trained him/sparred/seen him on the front line with their own eye-sight. There is no reason for post Prequel trilogy Luke to be wrong about Kyp's overall skill level as a duelist. Especially given he's sparred with both him and Kyle Katarn on numerous occasions and fought along side them both in legit duels. To suggest these assumption are wrong, you will need to provide probable cause for it - if not, I'll just write it off as conjuncture built with very little, to no basis for it's foundation.


For actual skill feats, he has stomped through hordes of Yuuzhan Vong Warriors, stalemated Jaina Solo in a legit duel when both of them were gunning to win, with the narrative suggesting Kyp would win in the end, wrecked Battle Hydra, and his spar with Luke can be used as a indication of skill, seeing as how in the same spar, Skywalker casually disarmed Cilghal; whom, is quite skilled in her own right - while he couldn't do the same to Durron.

I'm suggesting that they are wrong, but I'm not prepared to accept them as absolutely right either. It's all hearsay, and none of it is backed up by specific examples of his prowess. They are the ones who have failed to provide foundation beyond the few actual feats he does incontrovertibly have (which are discussed below). They are the ones who have failed to disclose the underlying facts their conclusions rest on--and that is more than enough reason to question those conclusions.

In "on-screen combat", Kyp has only ever faced Vong slave soldiers (which every other Jedi at the time also did) and the Corbos beast (which doesn't really tell you anything about how he would do against another duelist)in real, life and death engagements.

Sparring matches aren't really good evidence. They might be able to show the duelist's general style, but they aren't indicative of what that duelist will do in a real life-and-death situation. The closest thing to that was his fight with Jaina, and even that's suspect: this was NJO Jaina, and it's pretty clear that Kyp never intended to actually kill her, or even escalate the fight beyond more than just a few exchanges--she was pissed and lashed out, and Kyp just let her vent.

Even if you're prepared to take Luke's estimation of him into account along with the primary evidence, Kyp's lightsaber skills are vague at best. Even Luke's praise of him as a "master swordsman" by FOTJ means very little: about half the Order at the time had lived through the same conflicts and would be worthy of the same accolade. And it only means he's a master by the standards of the New Jedi Order--it says nothing about how he would compare to someone from another era. How does he compare to Dooku? Bane? Krayt? Kyp just doesn't have enough feats to definitively say anything about his fighting style.

> Ask for concrete showings, or inference that indicate the statements are incorrect
> Gets nothing worthwhile, besides nuh-huh.

I'll tackle your post later if I'm up to it, but nothing there is actually worth me exerting energy tackling.

Holy **** DC.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
> Ask for concrete showings, or inference that indicate the statements are incorrect
> Gets nothing worthwhile, besides nuh-huh.

I'll tackle your post later if I'm up to it, but nothing there is actually worth me exerting energy tackling.

Meanwhile I ask for concrete showings that Luke's assessment is correct and get only "Luke knows all."

What exactly is Kyp's fighting style? What are his strengths as a duelist? What are his weaknesses? How does he handle saberstaffs or dual wielding opponents? There is absolutely zero concrete evidence that can satisfactorily answer any of those questions, and those are the questions that really need to be answered to call this fight. Luke saying "Kyp's a master on par with Kyle" does absolutely nothing to substantively answer those.

Uh, no. You don't need to know an encyclopedia about a character to conclude that he's better than another.

Skywalker saying Durron is on par with someone as esteemed and accomplished as Katarn is all we need to know.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Uh, no. You don't need to know an encyclopedia about a character to conclude that he's better than another.

Skywalker saying Durron is on par with someone as esteemed and accomplished as Katarn is all we need to know.

So ABC logic is all that passes for a good argument here? How many of you have actually graduated from college with that kind of approach to things?

If you can construct a sound argument using credible and legitimate "ABC logic" backed by canonical sources, I have no problems with it.

i.e.: The fact Yoda can stalemate Palpatine is sufficient evidence that he would beat Darth Maul under pure virtue that Palpatine would too.

No other information is required. Of course, circumstances and context but be factored into everything too, though. That's not relevant here.

All Luke said was the dude he was discussing "might" be on the same tier as someone like Kyle "or" Kyp. Can we please stop clinging onto the notion that Luke said they were equals, or nigh-equals - he said they might be in the same tier, which doesn't even necessitate the quote being full-proof, and if you run with the hope that it is, it doesn't necessitate them being equals, just roughly similar with Kyp obviously being the inferior of the two.

Niggas are taking Luke roughly spitballing some guy's placement as Kyp having great hype in encyclopedic medium, tbh.

Having said that, being roughly close to Katarn is great.. Savage great? Not really.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
If you can construct a sound argument using credible and legitimate "ABC logic" backed by canonical sources, I have no problems with it.

i.e.: The fact Yoda can stalemate Palpatine is sufficient evidence that he would beat Darth Maul under pure virtue that Palpatine would too.

No other information is required. Of course, circumstances and context but be factored into everything too, though. That's not relevant here.

No that is not a sound argument, are you ****ing retarded? That assumes that Maul fights with the exact same style as Palpatine, but in with less skill. But that utterly fails if Maul's style is entirely different (which it is). What you have to analyze is how Yoda's style matches up to Maul's, not Palpatine's.

ABC logic is only sound if you can prove that Duelists A and B have no substantial differences in their fighting techniques and that C can beat one of them. But if A and B are fundamentally different stylistically it all falls apart. There is zero evidence that Kyp and Kyle have substantially the same style. ABC logic does not work here.

Listen ****boy, kek, no one gives two shits about how you want to debate. The notion that a sheer lightsaber style is going to have the type of disparity you are discussing (Palpatine / Yoda to Darth Maul) is pretty ****ing hilarious. Skill is what matters - at least here. Actually, here, no one gives any ****s about lightsaber styles. No one does on SWTOR, YT, NF, or CV either. So move along and go make your own forum where you can go and sit and compare lightsaber forms all day. Hopefully you take redpill and McP with you.

If skill is what matters then you need to ask what exactly are these fighters skilled in. If you're going to completely ignore that, then you're ignoring the absolute fundamentals of how combat in the Star Wars universe works. When Kenobi wins a fight, it's because he's skilled at what he does. And what he does is Soresu. You HAVE to take that into account. If you don't your "conclusion" is entirely flawed and isn't even worthy of being called a conclusion.

Long story short, I am leaving this site. People here are either trolls or jackasses who think they are automatically right because they've been here the longest/post the most frequently. But the things they say are so logically unsound that it defies belief.

kk cya. Don't return. Also:

>labels me as "jackass"
>first post to me called me "retarded"
>kek

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
kk cya. Don't return. Also:

>labels me as "jackass"
>first post to me called me "retarded"
>kek

all of that is justifiable so....


kek.

You just ruined "kek"

God damn it.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
kk cya. Don't return. Also:

>labels me as "jackass"
>first post to me called me "retarded"
>kek
Good. Now do the same to quanchi, and you will master this forum.

Originally posted by ILS
Being roughly close to Katarn is great.. Savage great? Not really.
Seeing as Savage is only roughly close to Katarn, then yeah.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Seeing as Savage is only roughly close to Katarn, then yeah.

Wasting your breath bud, most of these guys think Kyle would lose to Savage, like 10/10.

Off to my jerb nao.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Wasting your breath bud, most of these guys think Kyle would lose to Savage, like 10/10.

Well, you see Fated; I have a gift - and that gift involves swaying the masses to my viewpoint whenever I actively push my dogmatic agenda. On my home website, people used to shit on Katarn as well, now though? Not so much. Any character I put my mind to pushing received a positive boost in one way, or another.

Let me see Kyle pushing back Obi-Wan and Anakin at the same time, or hell, one of them individually. Then show me Kyp doing it.

I'm not an expert on Kyp, but if his lightsaber skills are around as good as Kyle Katarn's or Viun Gaalan's, I'd give him the win here.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Well, you see Fated; I have a gift - and that gift involves swaying the masses to my viewpoint whenever I actively push my dogmatic agenda. On my home website, people used to shit on Katarn as well, now though? Not so much. Any character I put my mind to pushing received a positive boost in one way, or another.

http://i.imgur.com/vY4h9cf.gif

Respect.

Also, would you say that you....


Have a particular set of skills? Skills that make you a nightmare for people like ILS and his ilk?


Back to work.

Originally posted by ILS
Let me see Kyle pushing back Obi-Wan and Anakin at the same time, or hell, one of them individually. Then show me Kyp doing it.



>Pushes back Obi-Wan and Anakin together
>Gets his shit pushed in by Kenobi alone with Maul as help
>LAL
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/9/93477/4723450-2271586432-38426.gif

So are you trolling, or is context just a foreign concept to you?

Implying that Savage pushing the duo back was legit

Kyle > Savage, but is the proof for Kyp = Kyle even that legit?

Originally posted by SunRazer
Implying that Savage pushing the duo back was legit Well, considering your approach to Savage has always been to invalidate his good feats and concentrate as heavily as possible on every time he's been kicked, it wouldn't seem valid to you, no.
Originally posted by AncientPower
Kyle > Savage, but is the proof for Kyp = Kyle even that legit? No, and no, it's not, and never has been. DC just parrots the same shit until it sticks, and people don't seem to challenge it. Kyp's a pretty unexplored duelist with a few wanked accomplishments, e.g "cut through hordes of Vong", ..... one at a time, off-panel, surrounded by allies and Jedi, with Mara being his and the other's saviour by the end of the battle. Context.

Originally posted by ILS
Well, considering your approach to Savage has always been to invalidate his good feats and concentrate as heavily as possible on every time he's been kicked, it wouldn't seem valid to you, no.

Well, at present, I have no feelings towards the character, so I couldn't care less about how he's treated. That being said, even accepting his feats for what they are (beating Plo, beating Ventress, etc.), none of that justifies him driving back Obi-Wan + Anakin, especially because those feats were achieved after he improved following Witches of the Mist. It's pretty obvious he was enraged to tremendous levels which put him beyond his normal performance.

It's pretty much the same PIS fight as Ventress vs Anakin and Obi-Wan or Obi-Wan vs Maul and Savage.

Not that it matters, because I still think Savage takes this in a good fight.

Originally posted by ILS
No, and no, it's not, and never has been. DC just parrots the same shit until it sticks, and people don't seem to challenge it. Kyp's a pretty unexplored duelist with a few wanked accomplishments, e.g "cut through hordes of Vong", ..... one at a time, off-panel, surrounded by allies and Jedi, with Mara being his and the other's saviour by the end of the battle. Context.

Dang, need some cheese to go with that whine, my nigga?