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Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: Literature & Expanded Universe » Star Wars Versus Forum » Kyp Durron vs. Savage Opress (Lightsabers only)


Kyp Durron vs. Savage Opress (Lightsabers only)
Started by: carthage

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carthage
PLEASE PROTECT ME STONES

Registered: Mar 2014
Location: THE BLACK LODGE


 

Kyp Durron vs. Savage Opress (Lightsabers only)

Duel takes place on Jakku


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"Happiness is a lie. Life is horror. The light is always dying all across the universe. The last star will flicker out someday, when it does, all that remains is shadow. And I will be its king!"'-Amahl Farouk

Old Post Oct 12th, 2015 07:15 PM
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DarthBeanzz
Member

Registered: Sep 2015
Location: United States


 

What has Kyp actually done with a lightsaber? Apart from some sparring and taking some low-ranking Vong, I don't recall him actually having any serious duels. All his real feats are either for Force or piloting.

Old Post Oct 12th, 2015 07:34 PM
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SunRazer
Back From The Dead

Registered: Apr 2015
Location: The distant past


 

Take it away, DC.

Old Post Oct 13th, 2015 08:56 AM
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Deronn Solo
King Yami

Registered: Jun 2014
Location: The Astral World


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by SunRazer
Take it away, DC.


I think being one of the greatest swordsman in the NJO, and placed on an even playing field with the likes of Kyle Katarn is enough to justify Kyp's superiority over Savage. If not, his vastly superior connection to the Force, and precognitive abilities should seal it.


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Old Post Oct 14th, 2015 07:24 PM
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DarthBeanzz
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Registered: Sep 2015
Location: United States


 

Those still don't show what he's actually done, just what other people think about him. It's a presumption about how good he is, but not evidence that he actually is that good.

Old Post Oct 14th, 2015 07:31 PM
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Deronn Solo
King Yami

Registered: Jun 2014
Location: The Astral World


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarthBeanzz
Those still don't show what he's actually done, just what other people think about him.


And they think these things about him, because they trained him/sparred/seen him on the front line with their own eye-sight. There is no reason for post Prequel trilogy Luke to be wrong about Kyp's overall skill level as a duelist. Especially given he's sparred with both him and Kyle Katarn on numerous occasions and fought along side them both in legit duels. To suggest these assumption are wrong, you will need to provide probable cause for it - if not, I'll just write it off as conjuncture built with very little, to no basis for it's foundation.


For actual skill feats, he has stomped through hordes of Yuuzhan Vong Warriors, stalemated Jaina Solo in a legit duel when both of them were gunning to win, with the narrative suggesting Kyp would win in the end, wrecked Battle Hydra, and his spar with Luke can be used as a indication of skill, seeing as how in the same spar, Skywalker casually disarmed Cilghal; whom, is quite skilled in her own right - while he couldn't do the same to Durron.


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Last edited by Deronn Solo on Oct 14th, 2015 at 07:47 PM

Old Post Oct 14th, 2015 07:39 PM
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DarthBeanzz
Member

Registered: Sep 2015
Location: United States


 

I'm suggesting that they are wrong, but I'm not prepared to accept them as absolutely right either. It's all hearsay, and none of it is backed up by specific examples of his prowess. They are the ones who have failed to provide foundation beyond the few actual feats he does incontrovertibly have (which are discussed below). They are the ones who have failed to disclose the underlying facts their conclusions rest on--and that is more than enough reason to question those conclusions.

In "on-screen combat", Kyp has only ever faced Vong slave soldiers (which every other Jedi at the time also did) and the Corbos beast (which doesn't really tell you anything about how he would do against another duelist)in real, life and death engagements.

Sparring matches aren't really good evidence. They might be able to show the duelist's general style, but they aren't indicative of what that duelist will do in a real life-and-death situation. The closest thing to that was his fight with Jaina, and even that's suspect: this was NJO Jaina, and it's pretty clear that Kyp never intended to actually kill her, or even escalate the fight beyond more than just a few exchanges--she was pissed and lashed out, and Kyp just let her vent.

Even if you're prepared to take Luke's estimation of him into account along with the primary evidence, Kyp's lightsaber skills are vague at best. Even Luke's praise of him as a "master swordsman" by FOTJ means very little: about half the Order at the time had lived through the same conflicts and would be worthy of the same accolade. And it only means he's a master by the standards of the New Jedi Order--it says nothing about how he would compare to someone from another era. How does he compare to Dooku? Bane? Krayt? Kyp just doesn't have enough feats to definitively say anything about his fighting style.

Old Post Oct 14th, 2015 08:53 PM
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Deronn Solo
King Yami

Registered: Jun 2014
Location: The Astral World


 

> Ask for concrete showings, or inference that indicate the statements are incorrect
> Gets nothing worthwhile, besides nuh-huh.

I'll tackle your post later if I'm up to it, but nothing there is actually worth me exerting energy tackling.


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Last edited by Deronn Solo on Oct 14th, 2015 at 09:06 PM

Old Post Oct 14th, 2015 09:03 PM
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ILS
Restricted

Registered: Oct 2014
Location: Korriban

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Holy **** DC. smokin'


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Old Post Oct 14th, 2015 10:44 PM
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DarthBeanzz
Member

Registered: Sep 2015
Location: United States


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Deronn_solo
> Ask for concrete showings, or inference that indicate the statements are incorrect
> Gets nothing worthwhile, besides nuh-huh.

I'll tackle your post later if I'm up to it, but nothing there is actually worth me exerting energy tackling.


Meanwhile I ask for concrete showings that Luke's assessment is correct and get only "Luke knows all."

What exactly is Kyp's fighting style? What are his strengths as a duelist? What are his weaknesses? How does he handle saberstaffs or dual wielding opponents? There is absolutely zero concrete evidence that can satisfactorily answer any of those questions, and those are the questions that really need to be answered to call this fight. Luke saying "Kyp's a master on par with Kyle" does absolutely nothing to substantively answer those.

Old Post Oct 14th, 2015 11:05 PM
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Jaggarath
DarthAnt66

Registered: Feb 2013
Location: USA


 

Uh, no. You don't need to know an encyclopedia about a character to conclude that he's better than another.

Skywalker saying Durron is on par with someone as esteemed and accomplished as Katarn is all we need to know.


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Old Post Oct 14th, 2015 11:08 PM
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DarthBeanzz
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Registered: Sep 2015
Location: United States


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Uh, no. You don't need to know an encyclopedia about a character to conclude that he's better than another.

Skywalker saying Durron is on par with someone as esteemed and accomplished as Katarn is all we need to know.


So ABC logic is all that passes for a good argument here? How many of you have actually graduated from college with that kind of approach to things?

Old Post Oct 14th, 2015 11:10 PM
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Jaggarath
DarthAnt66

Registered: Feb 2013
Location: USA


 

If you can construct a sound argument using credible and legitimate "ABC logic" backed by canonical sources, I have no problems with it.

i.e.: The fact Yoda can stalemate Palpatine is sufficient evidence that he would beat Darth Maul under pure virtue that Palpatine would too.

No other information is required. Of course, circumstances and context but be factored into everything too, though. That's not relevant here.


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Old Post Oct 14th, 2015 11:15 PM
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ILS
Restricted

Registered: Oct 2014
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All Luke said was the dude he was discussing "might" be on the same tier as someone like Kyle "or" Kyp. Can we please stop clinging onto the notion that Luke said they were equals, or nigh-equals - he said they might be in the same tier, which doesn't even necessitate the quote being full-proof, and if you run with the hope that it is, it doesn't necessitate them being equals, just roughly similar with Kyp obviously being the inferior of the two.

Niggas are taking Luke roughly spitballing some guy's placement as Kyp having great hype in encyclopedic medium, tbh.

Having said that, being roughly close to Katarn is great.. Savage great? Not really.


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“The galaxy must experience the pain of death and the rapture of rebirth as I have. I will bring chaos. It is time for war.

Old Post Oct 14th, 2015 11:21 PM
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DarthBeanzz
Member

Registered: Sep 2015
Location: United States


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
If you can construct a sound argument using credible and legitimate "ABC logic" backed by canonical sources, I have no problems with it.

i.e.: The fact Yoda can stalemate Palpatine is sufficient evidence that he would beat Darth Maul under pure virtue that Palpatine would too.

No other information is required. Of course, circumstances and context but be factored into everything too, though. That's not relevant here.


No that is not a sound argument, are you ****ing retarded? That assumes that Maul fights with the exact same style as Palpatine, but in with less skill. But that utterly fails if Maul's style is entirely different (which it is). What you have to analyze is how Yoda's style matches up to Maul's, not Palpatine's.

ABC logic is only sound if you can prove that Duelists A and B have no substantial differences in their fighting techniques and that C can beat one of them. But if A and B are fundamentally different stylistically it all falls apart. There is zero evidence that Kyp and Kyle have substantially the same style. ABC logic does not work here.

Old Post Oct 14th, 2015 11:22 PM
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Jaggarath
DarthAnt66

Registered: Feb 2013
Location: USA


 

Listen ****boy, kek, no one gives two shits about how you want to debate. The notion that a sheer lightsaber style is going to have the type of disparity you are discussing (Palpatine / Yoda to Darth Maul) is pretty ****ing hilarious. Skill is what matters - at least here. Actually, here, no one gives any ****s about lightsaber styles. No one does on SWTOR, YT, NF, or CV either. So move along and go make your own forum where you can go and sit and compare lightsaber forms all day. Hopefully you take redpill and McP with you.

smile


__________________

"There is only Revan. Only he can shape this galaxy as it is meant to be shaped."

Last edited by Jaggarath on Oct 14th, 2015 at 11:36 PM

Old Post Oct 14th, 2015 11:33 PM
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DarthBeanzz
Member

Registered: Sep 2015
Location: United States


 

If skill is what matters then you need to ask what exactly are these fighters skilled in. If you're going to completely ignore that, then you're ignoring the absolute fundamentals of how combat in the Star Wars universe works. When Kenobi wins a fight, it's because he's skilled at what he does. And what he does is Soresu. You HAVE to take that into account. If you don't your "conclusion" is entirely flawed and isn't even worthy of being called a conclusion.

Long story short, I am leaving this site. People here are either trolls or jackasses who think they are automatically right because they've been here the longest/post the most frequently. But the things they say are so logically unsound that it defies belief.

Old Post Oct 14th, 2015 11:50 PM
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Jaggarath
DarthAnt66

Registered: Feb 2013
Location: USA


 

kk cya. Don't return. thumb up Also:

>labels me as "jackass"
>first post to me called me "retarded"
>kek


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"There is only Revan. Only he can shape this galaxy as it is meant to be shaped."

Last edited by Jaggarath on Oct 14th, 2015 at 11:54 PM

Old Post Oct 14th, 2015 11:52 PM
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Fated Xtasy
Kami

Registered: Mar 2014
Location: ???????


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
kk cya. Don't return. thumb up Also:

>labels me as "jackass"
>first post to me called me "retarded"
>kek


all of that is justifiable so....


kek.


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Old Post Oct 15th, 2015 12:24 AM
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Jaggarath
DarthAnt66

Registered: Feb 2013
Location: USA


 

You just ruined "kek"

God damn it.


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"There is only Revan. Only he can shape this galaxy as it is meant to be shaped."

Old Post Oct 15th, 2015 12:27 AM
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