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Which race seems more powerful? Mxy not included.

Batmite snaps his fingers.

The beyonders are crazy inconsistent.

Bro-force>Beyonders>LT
?
Then again

Supes > Mxy so idk

Originally posted by Henry_Pym
The beyonders are crazy inconsistent.

Bro-force>Beyonders>LT
?
Then again

Supes > Mxy so idk

You do know Superman has never actually beaten Mxy before right?

Imps are masters of time, space, and hypertime. Beyonders, meanwhile, inexplicably have no control over time.

^^ That's very strange when even a "minute bit" of their power can control "Time." Entire universes in fact.

Arent they both pretty much the same thing? Beings that dont reside within the DC or Marvel multiverse and apparently have nothing better to do than f with everyone? How much more powerful can one be at this point? Both companies are getting stupid with this shit. Going by on panel feats Thor and Hype are like Universe buster.

Another being from another somewhere thats not in our universe with even more power somehow comes along and with nothing better to do puts the imps and beyonders on a superbattleworld.

That being then loses to Bat and Caps combined shieldkick.

Originally posted by Mr Master
^^ That's very strange when even a "minute bit" of their power can control "Time." Entire universes in fact. How? This isn't post retcon beyonder right?

Honestly though, I dont know how to debate fights like this because once you get to abstracts and up they can all pretty much do "anything" but they all end up just headbutting each other.

Originally posted by Cogito
Imps are masters of time, space, and hypertime. Beyonders, meanwhile, inexplicably have no control over time.

Originally posted by Cogito
Imps are masters of time, space, and hypertime. Beyonders, meanwhile, inexplicably have no control over time.

Originally posted by h1a8

How? This isn't post retcon beyonder right?
Originally posted by h1a8

How? This isn't post retcon beyonder right?
Hickman is really making no sense, or, he didn't do his homework, or there's more to explain.

Cosmic Containment Units (which become "sentient child units" or Cube beings)

are a "minute bit of energy" from the Beyonder Realm:

http://s3d4.turboimg.net/t/24400903_Cube_beings.jpg

------------------------------------------------

These "minute bits of energy" empower cats like post-retcon Beyonder:

http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/12100447_Cube_being_-_all_powerful5.jpg

"The power I now possess reaches into the Past, the Future, All Time and Space"

------------------------------------------------

If one then says, well, that Beyonder scene is from 2010 therefore pre-Hickman ...

... well ... then we have post-Hickman ... where Slott & Allred re-confirm a Cosmic Cube's status: (2015)

http://s3d4.turboimg.net/t/24400904_CCU_Shape1.jpg

------------------------------------------------

That's Silver Surfer creating the entire Universe from scratch using a Cube being's power.

So ... how the hell do the Beyonders not control "Time?" ...

When a "minute bit of their energy" can create the concepts of Space-Time from nothingness?

Originally posted by Mr Master
Hickman is really making no sense, or, he didn't do his homework, or there's more to explain.

Cosmic Containment Units (which become "sentient child units" or Cube beings)

are a "minute bit of energy" from the Beyonder Realm:

http://s3d4.turboimg.net/t/24400903_Cube_beings.jpg

------------------------------------------------

These "minute bits of energy" empower cats like post-retcon Beyonder:

http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/12100447_Cube_being_-_all_powerful5.jpg

"The power I now possess reaches into the Past, the Future, All Time and Space"

------------------------------------------------

If one then says, well, that Beyonder scene is from 2010 therefore pre-Hickman ...

... well ... then we have post-Hickman ... where Slott & Allred re-confirm a Cosmic Cube's status: (2015)

http://s3d4.turboimg.net/t/24400904_CCU_Shape1.jpg

------------------------------------------------

That's Silver Surfer creating the entire Universe from scratch using a Cube being's power.

So ... how the hell do the Beyonders not control "Time?" ...

When a "minute bit of their energy" can create the concepts of Space-Time from nothingness? It's especially odd considering that the "Secret Wars II" entry in Secret Wars - Official Guide to the Marvel Multiverse, which just came out this Wednesday, explicitly mentions Beyonder manipulating time with a very precise degree of control:
http://i.imgur.com/nwPaPiR.jpg


And the same bio contains THE most current info in Marvel... Including the fact that Beyonder himself was a "child unit" in comparison to the rest of the race:
http://i.imgur.com/jWb6HJ6.jpg

Whole bio:
http://i.imgur.com/NG5dBVK.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/TQdMllu.jpg


...So yeah, apparently Beyonder child units have some degree of control over time, but the higher-up Beyonders cannot manipulate it at all. Lol. /shrug

the whole 'they're linear beingzz and so now doom has a way to beat them!!1!!' was truly one of THE stupidest plot devices i've ever read and basically turned me off of the entire secret war travesty. there is no logical way to explain away that particular retardation. add in the showing with thor and hyperion vs the beyonders and the entire arc was just thrown into complete meltdown imo...

imps blink them out of existence. assuming they, unlike marvel's greatest, wisest and most powerful abstracts INFINITY among them), are capable of figuring out the very same weakness DR FRIGGIN DOOM was able to figure out..... i have no words to express the level of stupid that arc reached.

Originally posted by leonidas
the whole 'they're linear beingzz and so now doom has a way to beat them!!1!!' was truly one of THE stupidest plot devices i've ever read and basically turned me off of the entire secret war travesty. there is no logical way to explain away that particular retardation. add in the showing with thor and hyperion vs the beyonders and the entire arc was just thrown into complete meltdown imo...

imps blink them out of existence. assuming they, unlike marvel's greatest, wisest and most powerful abstracts INFINITY among them), are capable of figuring out the very same weakness DR FRIGGIN DOOM was able to figure out..... i have no words to express the level of stupid that arc reached.

Did you read Convergence by any chance?

So, The Beyonders getting beaten easy is all PIS then?

It seems to be a big case of it.

Originally posted by leonidas
the whole 'they're linear beingzz and so now doom has a way to beat them!!1!!' was truly one of THE stupidest plot devices i've ever read and basically turned me off of the entire secret war travesty. there is no logical way to explain away that particular retardation. add in the showing with thor and hyperion vs the beyonders and the entire arc was just thrown into complete meltdown imo...

imps blink them out of existence. assuming they, unlike marvel's greatest, wisest and most powerful abstracts INFINITY among them), are capable of figuring out the very same weakness DR FRIGGIN DOOM was able to figure out..... i have no words to express the level of stupid that arc reached.

Originally posted by leonidas
add in the showing with thor and hyperion vs the beyonders and the entire arc was just thrown into complete meltdown imo...

Bro... That scene was perfectly plausible. Come on bro....

http://imageslgmr.lazygamer.netdna-cdn.com/2014/04/BROFORCE.gif
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11112/111122896/4769886-enhanced-13497-1430340119-9.jpg

What's wrong with the Thor and Hyperion showing? Did they kill a Beyonder?

3 Beyonders killed LT and the entire cosmic hierarchy. Thor and Hype rolled through dozens of them.

Only in carver's world does that balance out.

Originally posted by Galan007
3 Beyonders killed LT and the entire cosmic hierarchy. Thor and Hype rolled through dozens of them.

Only in carver's world does that balance out.
I think he means, Thor and Hyperion did nothing but superficial damage if that and it wouldn't have made a difference if it was one Beyonder or their entire race, Thor and Hyperion were as good as dead.

...But it was dozens of them attacking Thor/Hype, when 3 of them had killed the friggin LIVING TRIBUNAL.

In no way is that idiotic sequence justifiable.

That was one of the most idiotic things from a good writer like Hickman.







































Idiotically Awesome!!!!!
Jumpy

Originally posted by Galan007
...But it was dozens of them attacking Thor/Hype, when 3 of them had killed the friggin LIVING TRIBUNAL.

In no way is that idiotic sequence justifiable.
I'm not disagreeing with you, just wanted to point out what I think Carver meant.

Starbrand killed one of them. Abyss/Ex nihilo beat one of them.

Starbrand>>>>Eternity.

^^ Yet we know Starbrand isn't anywhere near Eternity. So none of this makes sense friend.
Originally posted by Galan007
It's especially odd considering that the "Secret Wars II" entry in Secret Wars - Official Guide to the Marvel Multiverse, which just came out this Wednesday, explicitly mentions Beyonder manipulating time with a very precise degree of control:
And the same bio contains THE most current info in Marvel... Including the fact that Beyonder himself was a "child unit" in comparison to the rest of the race:

Whole bio:

...So yeah, apparently Beyonder child units have some degree of control over time, but the higher-up Beyonders cannot manipulate it at all. Lol. /shrug
Thanx for that bio, I don't have that one yet.

I'm telling ya brother, this is becoming more twisted.
It can't be so obviously self-contradicting. There has to be more to this.

As for the Thor and Hyperion scenario.

That slender Beyonder was taking its sweet time, Thor and Hyperion were a joke next to it.

The other boxy-shaped Beyonder kinda jobbed imo with Abyss/Ex cause it just stood there waiting for the consequence.

Anyway, I'm not even sure they per-ma killed any of them,
as it was stated those are just manifested "physical forms" the Beyonders take on
while their true "essence" lies within. Like m-bdoies I suppose.

But this is just imo.

http://s5d2.turboimagehost.com/t/24117171_B1.jpg http://s5d2.turboimagehost.com/t/24117172_B2.jpg http://s5d2.turboimagehost.com/t/24117173_B3.jpg http://s5d2.turboimagehost.com/t/24117174_B4.jpg http://s5d2.turboimagehost.com/t/24117176_B5.jpg
http://s5d2.turboimagehost.com/t/24117177_B6.jpghttp://s5d2.turboimagehost.com/t/24117178_B7.jpg http://s5d2.turboimagehost.com/t/24117179_B8.jpg http://s5d2.turboimagehost.com/t/24117181_B9.jpghttp://s5d2.turboimagehost.com/t/24117182_B10.jpg

http://s5d2.turboimagehost.com/t/24117183_B11.jpg http://s5d2.turboimagehost.com/t/24117185_B12.jpg

The ending was an epic exit of heroism for the duo, bit I think it's clear friends
that Thor/Hyperion didn't affect a single Beyonder significantly there and most assuredly didn't kill any either.

Based on their performance/outcome vs one.

Originally posted by Galan007
3 Beyonders killed LT and the entire cosmic hierarchy. Thor and Hype rolled through dozens of them.

Only in carver's world does that balance out.

Show me where they are rolling though them.

Originally posted by zopzop
I think he means, Thor and Hyperion did nothing but superficial damage if that and it wouldn't have made a difference if it was one Beyonder or their entire race, Thor and Hyperion were as good as dead.

They really didn't do anything. Thor hit one which budged it and Hyperion did the same. How is that steam rolling them?

Originally posted by carver9
They really didn't do anything. Thor hit one which budged it and Hyperion did the same. How is that steam rolling them?
The point is they shouldn't even have been able to swat away one of them let alone many. A Beyonder's skin cell should have blinked them to death. But here they not only sent two, they sent a whole frikkin army vs two who should have been treated like bacteria. Now do you get it?

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
The point is they shouldn't even have been able to swat away one of them let alone many. A Beyonder's skin cell should have blinked them to death. But here they not only sent two, they sent a whole frikkin army vs two who should have been treated like bacteria. Now do you get it?

We seen how 1 handled Thor and Hyperion, we didn't need to see a repeat of the same process. Hyperion and Thor pushing one isn't a low ft for the Beyonders since we already know they have the capabilities of destroying both Hyperion and Thor with ease. Didn't see anyone crying about Emperor Joker being a joke when Superman did this...

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11120/111200299/4209288-45496709.jpg

That's a hellava lot different than Thor and Hype budging a Beyonder.

Originally posted by carver9
We seen how 1 handled Thor and Hyperion, we didn't need to see a repeat of the same process. Hyperion and Thor pushing one isn't a low ft for the Beyonders since we already know they have the capabilities of destroying both Hyperion and Thor with ease. Didn't see anyone crying about Emperor Joker being a joke when Superman did this...

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11120/111200299/4209288-45496709.jpg

That's a hellava lot different than Thor and Hype budging a Beyonder. umm no. superman has a well documented history of punching WAY above his paygrade, as does thor and most high heralds . but a hammerless false arm having thor and fagperion(who hasnt acquired enough of his faggy feats) taking on an entire race of nigh omnipotent beings when like three destroyed marvels entire cosmic hierarchy, theres no excusing this dookie.

Originally posted by ghostman
umm no. superman has a well documented history of punching WAY above his paygrade, as does thor and most high heralds . but a hammerless false arm having thor and fagperion(who hasnt acquired enough of his faggy feats) taking on an entire race of nigh omnipotent beings when like three destroyed marvels entire cosmic hierarchy, theres no excusing this dookie.

Ok. Can anyone else reply besides a Superman fanatic.

Originally posted by carver9
Ok. Can anyone else reply besides a Superman fanatic.

You of all people shouldn't be calling anyone a Fanatic.

Originally posted by carver9
Ok. Can anyone else reply besides a Superman fanatic.

you once said no herald level character can destroy a planet

theres no excusing this bullshit. you know damn well dcs main characters have to step up to the plate during cosmic events more than marvels do due to a very different cosmic hierarchy, thats just the way dc is set up. and lmao @ you calling anyone a fanatic with the shit ive seen you post. you said no one under skyfather is beating WBH physically

Originally posted by ghostman
you once said no herald level character can destroy a planet

theres no excusing this bullshit. you know damn well dcs main characters have to step up to the plate during cosmic events more than marvels do due to a very different cosmic hierarchy, thats just the way dc is set up. and lmao @ you calling anyone a fanatic with the shit ive seen you post. you said no one under skyfather is beating WBH physically

Ghostman, stop putting words in my mouth. Show me where i said a Herald level couldn't destroy a planet.

Lol...no one under skyfather is beating WBH physically and I mean that. Anyways, your post in this thread was, how can I say it? Useless.

Originally posted by SquallX
You of all people shouldn't be calling anyone a Fanatic.

So you're still mad at our topic in the Anime forum?

Originally posted by ghostman

but a hammerless false arm having thor and fagperion

taking on an entire race of nigh omnipotent beings

when like three destroyed marvels entire cosmic hierarchy
What are yall looking at exactly? ... am I missing some pages from the book?

All I see is Thor and Hyperion getting stomped/owned ... badly and easily, by one Beyonder.

Then, an unnecessary senseless over-kill on the Beyonders part by sending an army. lol.

Hickman, you silly phuk, stop writing after getting ... stoned

Originally posted by Mr Master
What are yall looking at exactly? ... am I missing some pages from the book?

All I see is Thor and Hyperion getting stomped/owned ... badly and easily, by one Beyonder.

Then, an unnecessary senseless over-kill on the Beyonders part by sending an army. lol.

Hickman, you silly phuk, stop writing after getting ... stoned



That's all that happened. One stomps them and an army is sent. Thor swings his ax at one (that does nothing to it but push it back a bit) and Hyperion pushes another one. Don't understand why people are so excited about that. I guess I need to jump for joy over this showing.

Originally posted by carver9
Hulk first lick affect the most powerful being in comics.

http://i.imgur.com/7UibtpO.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/pyywvNN.jpg


Because this is far better than what Hyperion and Thor did.

Originally posted by carver9
So you're still mad at our topic in the Anime forum?

You're joking right?

Carver, you have no leg to stand on, you just jump on the band wagon because it's hard for you to stand on ur on.

I give up on you when you claimed that the best fighting speed Superman has under his belt after he's been around for 75 yrs is dodging Doomsday Rex hits.

Do you even know the context of that feat first of all?

http://s30.postimg.org/6wgo4jas1/Screen_Shot_2013_11_29_at_2_19_37_PM.png

Thing > Hulk

So is myx the most powerful being in DC, I dont see the difference between him and a beyonder.

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
So is myx the most powerful being in DC, I dont see the difference between him and a beyonder.
He's up there. He's gotta be in the true top 3 most powerful :
Mxy, Primal Monitor, and some monster that Mxy fought that he couldn't beat straight up and needed to trick to beat (but the story it appeared in may or may not be real) I forget it's name.

Mxy = True Pre Retcon Beyonder. Not these bullsh|t pretenders Hickman pulled out of his stupid @$$.

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
So is myx the most powerful being in DC, I dont see the difference between him and a beyonder.

I would rate him above the Beyonders. The current Beyonders have a weakness that can be exploited rather easily and LT seemed more powerful than a single one.
The so called pre rec Beyonder was only Multiversal and back than above a Multiversal LT. LT however Evolved from those days into an Omniversal being, far above Megaversal levels, he would beat the pre rec beyonder who is indeed a child unit compared to the cosmic powerleves of today.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
http://s30.postimg.org/6wgo4jas1/Screen_Shot_2013_11_29_at_2_19_37_PM.png

Thing > Hulk

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
http://s30.postimg.org/6wgo4jas1/Screen_Shot_2013_11_29_at_2_19_37_PM.png

Thing > Hulk

He made himself mortal there.

Originally posted by carver9
We seen how 1 handled Thor and Hyperion, we didn't need to see a repeat of the same process. Hyperion and Thor pushing one isn't a low ft for the Beyonders since we already know they have the capabilities of destroying both Hyperion and Thor with ease. Didn't see anyone crying about Emperor Joker being a joke when Superman did this...

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11120/111200299/4209288-45496709.jpg

That's a hellava lot different than Thor and Hype budging a Beyonder.
This should never have happened.

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7658/17308677462_8a499bffde_c.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/square_medium/11114/111142536/4474973-new+avengers+032-017.jpg

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
This should never have happened.

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7658/17308677462_8a499bffde_c.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/square_medium/11114/111142536/4474973-new+avengers+032-017.jpg

The hammer toss did nothing and they told them that their physical shells meant nothing. Hyperion did nothing as well.

Originally posted by carver9
The hammer toss did nothing and they told them that their physical shells meant nothing. Hyperion did nothing as well.
Same with your scan. But doesn't change the fact it should not have happened.


And having a whole army of Beyonders deal with the two? Two inconsequential bacteria? Come on Carver. The scene was flat out stupid. Hickman fell asleep at the wheel.

Originally posted by zopzop

Mxy = True Pre Retcon Beyonder.

Not these bullsh|t pretenders Hickman pulled out of his stupid @$$.
Classic Beyonder is without question the most powerful entity ever in Marvel.

But Zop,
Hickman's BeyonderS were exactly what they were supposed to be until Hickman fell into a web of inescapable PIS.
PIS like, uhh, oh, oh ...
now how the hell am I gonna finish this arc, how can they lose when they beat the LT and hierarchy?

... hey I know ... PIS!

Regardless, the all time top cosmic hierarchy concerning these two is still:

Pre-retcon Beyonder > BeyonderS > LT > retcon Beyonder (child unit)

Originally posted by Mr Master
Classic Beyonder is without question the most powerful entity ever in Marvel.

But Zop,
Hickman's BeyonderS were exactly what they were supposed to be until Hickman fell into a web of inescapable PIS.
PIS like, uhh, oh, oh ...
now how the hell am I gonna finish this arc, how can they lose when they beat the LT and hierarchy?

... hey I know ... PIS!

Regardless, the all time top cosmic hierarchy concerning these two is still:

Pre-retcon Beyonder > BeyonderS > LT > retcon Beyonder (child unit)

There are many ways going about it, but instead Hickman decided to choke.

One ex. the heroes could have split up and gathers the most powerful weapons in the Multiverse. EG The Nulifier, The IG.

Or find a way to have TOAA come to the rescue.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Same with your scan. But doesn't change the fact it should not have happened.


And having a whole army of Beyonders deal with the two? Two inconsequential bacteria? Come on Carver. The scene was flat out stupid. Hickman fell asleep at the wheel.

We seen what one did to them though. I took that as the Beyonders showing Thor and Hype they do not stand a chance. They still did nothing though so I don't understand the issue.

There is no issue. If it had been Supermanand Batman making their last off panel stand they would all be making claims that Superman soloed all the beyonders.

Carver is right, great showings for Hype and Thor in damage output and damage soak. But they didnt kill or significantly hirt even one so yall are literally bitchin bout nothin.

So the official Top dogs would be.

DC Marvel
1. Presence - TOAA
2. Primal Monitor - ?
3. Mxy - Beyonder Race as w a whole (Omniversal)
4. FP Spectre - LT (Omniversal/Current)
5. No name 5D imp - Beyonder pre-rec
6. Spectre (Average) - LT (Multiversal)

Originally posted by carver9
Show me where they are rolling though them.
http://i.imgur.com/fzbLIQk.png

http://i.imgur.com/XCqAZYR.png



....DozenS were sent to kill Thor/Hype, when only 3 had killed every single cosmic being in Marvel's hierarchy(inc. LT.) Only in carver's world is there nothing wrong with that.

g007-psyduck

Smdh

Good rebuttal.

I didnt see it as them sendi g them specifically coming after those two. They were just coming anyway and the only 2 alive were hulk and thor. Anyway, not really relevant to this fight as I doubt there will be any physical fight between the two. They will just try to blink each other away.

Originally posted by Galan007
http://i.imgur.com/fzbLIQk.png

http://i.imgur.com/XCqAZYR.png



....DozenS were sent to kill Thor/Hype, when only 3 had killed every single cosmic being in Marvel's hierarchy(inc. LT.) Only in carver's world is there nothing wrong with that.

g007-psyduck
This is friggin' hilarious! A brainfart from Disney's writer Hickman.

Originally posted by Galan007
http://i.imgur.com/fzbLIQk.png

http://i.imgur.com/XCqAZYR.png



....DozenS were sent to kill Thor/Hype, when only 3 had killed every single cosmic being in Marvel's hierarchy(inc. LT.) Only in carver's world is there nothing wrong with that.

g007-psyduck
Looked like one Beyonder was actually ripped in half in that scene.

El oh El.

^^ .. I don't see that, but it doesn't mean anything if it were the case:

http://s3d3.turboimg.net/t1/24403238_nothing.jpg

Those "physical forms" are just shells containing their essence.
Originally posted by SquallX

There are many ways going about it, but instead Hickman decided to choke.

One ex. the heroes could have split up and gathers the most powerful weapons in the Multiverse. EG The Nulifier, The IG.

Or find a way to have TOAA come to the rescue.
... Although TOAA is the culprit behind everything so we can forget that.
TOAA has manifested on panel several times but not necessarily to engage in combative action.

TOAA appearing "on panel" means nothing really,
since they write themselves getting stomped by their artwork sometimes.
In a serious setting, I've only seen TOAA's power (directly/in-universe) on panel twice, and perhaps a third.

1) When LT confronted Warlock/IG (LT represented TOAA's power) this is obviously not always the case.
2) When Thanos acquired said power via the HOTI.
3) ... and this one is unofficial ... Scathan. Imo, and many others, TOAA's agent of some sort.

----------------------------------------------------

I agree with your final solution though, it should've been a gathering of uber weapons/items/artifacts.

There are also several obscure cosmic powerhouses who were forgotten.

But really, the BeyonderS should've just fixed everything and called it an experiment.

Hopefully Hickman will redeem himself by highlighting a stipulation behind these contradictions.

Originally posted by carver9
Smdh
It gets worse because the page after Galan's scan, both of them continue to wade through Beyonders.

http://i.imgur.com/ziP0pzD.jpg

Nice sig, abhi!

Originally posted by celeyhyga17

It gets worse both of them continue to wade through Beyonders.

I have to disagree here good friend.

That's a scene of absolute over-kill.
If we're honest we realize we can't even tell what's going on in the artwork.
It's like emptying 2 clips into a person even though one bullet did the job. 'Gilding the lily' as they say.

They were getting stomped by just one Beyonder.

Originally posted by Mr Master
^^ I have to disagree here good friend.

That's a scene of absolute over-kill.
If we're honest we realize we can't even tell what's going on in the artwork.
It's like emptying 2 clips into a person even though one bullet did the job. 'Gilding the lily' as they say.

They were getting stomped by just one Beyonder.

Originally posted by Cogito
Imps are masters of time, space, and hypertime. Beyonders, meanwhile, inexplicably have no control over time.

This still holds true, though.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

This still holds true, though.
Well, the embodiments of Space and Time were helpless so ... controlling "time" isn't going to help here imo.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Well, the embodiments of Space and Time were helpless so ... controlling "time" isn't going to help here imo.

How do you mean?

It's not a vs thread. It's a thread asking who is more powerful.

One can do everything the other can - except one side can ALSO time travel. Which the other side, as per the most recent showings, explicitly cannot.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
So the official Top dogs would be.

DC Marvel
1. Presence - TOAA
2. Primal Monitor - ?
3. Mxy - Beyonder Race as w a whole (Omniversal)
4. FP Spectre - LT (Omniversal/Current)
5. No name 5D imp - Beyonder pre-rec
6. Spectre (Average) - LT (Multiversal)

You forgot Non (An enemy of the Presence)
http://i68.tinypic.com/2dgt63n.jpg

And Pralaya (Another enemy of the Presence). She was able to destroy all creation just like Chaos King.

http://i64.tinypic.com/1796o4.jpg

Originally posted by Mr Master
I have to disagree here good friend.

That's a scene of absolute over-kill.
If we're honest we realize we can't even tell what's going on in the artwork.
It's like emptying 2 clips into a person even though one bullet did the job. 'Gilding the lily' as they say.

They were getting stomped by just one Beyonder.
I agree. It was overkill. But it doesn't change the fact that they continued to swat oncoming Beyonders like they were rag dolls. Believe me I'm with you in that a whole army of Thors and Hyperions would eventually get spite stomped against one of these guys since destroying their physical form is inconsequential in the grand scheme of things, but come on... They never should have lasted as long as they did.

Galan's scan.

http://i.imgur.com/XCqAZYR.png


Very next page they are still swatting away Beyonders as evidenced by the different positioning of Thor and Hype's attack.


http://oi65.tinypic.com/112egle.jpg

I was just about to post the super close-up:
http://i.imgur.com/DqfHeb8.png

http://i.imgur.com/cS8FtrK.png


...You can even see Beyonder parts/fragments in the vicinity, which tells us that Thor/Hype were literally shredding through them.

Damn, I own the digital comic and didnt even notice those closeups, just looked like a ball of yonders. Pretty awesome for my fav hero.

Irregardless, same as Thor vs. Death senntry. He can destroy the body all day long, means nothing. That shell was only as strong as the Beyonder wanted it to be.

But yeah, its still silly a bit, it should have been abstracts making the last stand to save their universe,

Yeah, it's ****ing stupid.

Absolutely moronic. That one issue cheapened them tremendously.

I would have liked to see the high ups of the Universe band together and see more of them, and show fear etc. Maybe a few blasts that decimate galaxies, I dont know, put up a fight to save something that you have invested into and lived in for billions or trillions of years. I dont know, I just likebshit that makes sense. Wierd like that.

Anyway, Myx beats these beyonders and only stalemates their weaker child units.

In defense of the Beyonders, Deodata was just tracing a box of his sons spilled Transformers in that scene. There was probably some broken pieces that came out.

Originally posted by Galan007
Absolutely moronic. That one issue cheapened them tremendously.
What's the funniest part is that it's like Rage's wildest dreams come alive and he can't even use it.

Originally posted by abhilegend
What's the funniest part is that it's like Rage's wildest dreams come alive and he can't even use it.


What's even worse is that as sad as the scene is, he can...

Originally posted by celeyhyga17

I agree. It was overkill. But it doesn't change the fact that they continued to swat oncoming Beyonders like they were rag dolls. Believe me I'm with you in that a whole army of Thors and Hyperions would eventually get spite stomped against one of these guys since destroying their physical form is inconsequential in the grand scheme of things, but come on... They never should have lasted as long as they did.

Galan's scan.

Very next page they are still swatting away Beyonders as evidenced by the different positioning of Thor and Hype's attack.

I agree.
Originally posted by Galan007

...You can even see Beyonder parts/fragments in the vicinity, which tells us that Thor/Hype were literally shredding through them.
Nice digital close-ups, no one can argue your truth.

... oh Hickman, the only possible stipulation here
is that for whateva wtf reason the Beyonders manifest in vulnerable forms outside the Beyond Realm.

Perhaps this is why Owen had to "draw them out" of the Beyond Realm before blowing those Beyonders up?

Perhaps they stomped the hierarchy too quick for their forms to receive substantial damage?

Perhaps they jobbed and underestimated the heroes and Owen?

What do you think G?

Originally posted by Mr Master
I agree.

Nice digital close-ups, no one can argue your truth.

... oh Hickman, the only possible stipulation here
is that for whateva wtf reason the Beyonders manifest in vulnerable forms outside the Beyond Realm.

Perhaps this is why Owen had "draw them out" of the Beyond Realm before blowing those Beyonders up.

What do you think G? I'm honestly unsure.

When the 3 Beyonders killed every Celestial and LT, they appeared to do so within 'normal space':
http://i.imgur.com/QgAC4pJ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/2JJzIHn.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/rhqrOYd.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/GWtojNB.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/6chTFsg.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/J1a3SaL.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/O3qf0xr.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/poFJPnG.jpg

...So I'm not really sure what the difference would have been when they confronted Thor/Hype..? I really think Hickman just dropped the ball there, and didn't adequately explain the particulars behind the scene. /shrug

I mean, I don't really understand the difference in their physical appearances, either. In one comic, the Beyonders appear as Godlike super-scientists:
http://i.imgur.com/TmP7Ruw.jpg


In the next comic, they look like Transformers with Down's Syndrome... Some of them looked like Fighter Jets, complete with landing gear and Gatling Guns, ffs:
http://i.imgur.com/BFbG8x0.jpg

srsly

The bearded Broforce > Beyonders, Thorfact.

Anyway, Mxy alone would beat pre rec Beyonder and should stalemate the Beyonders as a race, in a funny way. The whole 5D imp race would go through all known Beyonders, pre rec or not, like jarnbjorn and atomic fists through overrated metal.

Originally posted by Galan007

I'm honestly unsure.

When the 3 Beyonders killed every Celestial and LT, they appeared to do so within 'normal space'
Right, I know, but I was postulating that perhaps they stomped the cosmics so quickly
that they themselves (vulnerable manifested forms) were not damaged significantly.
A Beyonder did lose an arm against the cosmics but reformed it immediately.

The difference is, against the cosmics there wasn't any jobbing, just attacking.
While against the heroes, they're boasting during the fight, taking their time,
the boxed-shaped Beyonder did nothing to Ex/Nihilo, it just stood there waiting to get affected:

http://s3d2.turboimg.net/t/24403739_B4.jpg

... 'no, no please, be my guest and warp the shit out of me while I stand here transfixed by your efforts'

-------------------------

And remember Owen needed to draw them out of the Beyond Realm before attacking. Interesting.

When they spoke from withIN the Beyond Realm, Hickman portrays them as God imo. The lettering and all.

I wonder.
Originally posted by Galan007

I really think Hickman just dropped the ball there, and didn't adequately explain the particulars behind the scene. /shrug
oh, that too believe me I agree.
Originally posted by Galan007

I mean, I don't really understand the difference in their appearances, either. In one comic, the Beyonders appear as Godlike super-scientists. In the next comic, they look like Transformers with Down's Syndrome... Some of them looked like Fighter Jets, complete with landing gear and Gatling Guns, ffs:

You see G, what the hell does this mean?

Originally posted by Mr Master
When they spoke from withIN the Beyond Realm, Hickman portrays them as God imo. The lettering and all.

I wonder. Maybe they are formless within the Beyond Realm? Again, I'm unsure.

Originally posted by Mr Master
You see G, what the hell does this mean? We know via on-panel info that the Beyonders who confronted the 'Multiversal Avengers' in NA #32 are the exact same Beyonders who wiped out the cosmic hierarchy in NA #30.

Evidently the artist of #32 just felt like drawing them differently that day... Evidently he wanted the fans to have a good laugh. ermm

Originally posted by Galan007

Maybe they are formless within the Beyond Realm? Again, I'm unsure.
I believe that's the case. Owen needing to draw them out is the smoking gun imo.

They did seem more ... majestic, when speaking from within the Beyond Realm, imo:

http://s3d1.turboimg.net/t/24403854_1.jpg
Originally posted by Galan007

We know via on-panel info that the Beyonders who confronted the 'Multiversal Avengers' in NA #32 are the exact same Beyonders who wiped out the cosmic hierarchy in NA #30.
I understand.

Hey from the scans you showed me, is Hickman saying that the Beyonders created the multiverse?

http://s3d1.turboimg.net/t/24403855_2.jpghttp://s3d1.turboimg.net/t/24403856_3.jpg

What "universes" is Owen talking about?
Why's the context of his explanation telling me:
the BeyonderS were unhappy with their work (creation/reality) and decided to end it to start over again?
Originally posted by Galan007


the artist of #32 just felt like drawing them differently that day... Evidently he wanted the fans to have a good laugh.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Hey from the scans you showed me, is Hickman saying that the Beyonders created the multiverse?

What "universes" is Owen talking about?
Why's the context of his explanation telling me:
the BeyonderS were unhappy with their work (creation/reality) and decided to end it to start over again?


http://i.imgur.com/W4JPZV0.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/fCwC1KS.jpg


Based on that, I suppose we can conclude that the Beyonders may have been the architects of the multiverse. The ultimately got bored/unhappy with their creation and engineered Owen as a means to destroy it. Why? It's impossible to know with certainty.

One thing that throws a wrench into that idea is the Living Tribunal. He was created by TOAA. He literally embodied the multiverse. How could he have embodied the multiverse if it was entirely their creation..? /shrug

A good way to save the Beyonder's lack luster showings is to make this just an experiment.

Maybe the Beyonders been watching them all this time and they wanted to see how far and different the rest of the multiverse were to them.

Let's also say they purposely weakened themselves after confronting the LT, just because they don't want there experiment to end too soon.

Originally posted by Galan007
http://i.imgur.com/fzbLIQk.png

http://i.imgur.com/XCqAZYR.png



....DozenS were sent to kill Thor/Hype, when only 3 had killed every single cosmic being in Marvel's hierarchy(inc. LT.) Only in carver's world is there nothing wrong with that.

g007-psyduck

seriously..... smdh indeed.

Originally posted by Galan007
http://i.imgur.com/W4JPZV0.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/fCwC1KS.jpg


Based on that, I suppose we can conclude that the Beyonders may have been the architects of the multiverse.

that's what i took from that scene when i first read it.... shrug

^^ 3 of us (u included) came up with the same interpretation. I think it's safe to say that's what it means.

It's so disappointing because Hickman had such a good run on F4. This shit is unbelievably disappointing.

Originally posted by Cogito
It's so disappointing because Hickman had such a good run on F4. This shit is unbelievably disappointing. Hickman's work on Fantastic Four, FF, and S.H.I.E.L.D. remains to be some of the best comic material I have ever read. No joke. It was phenomenal.

Unfortunately Secret Wars has been lackluster as a whole, and downright awful at times. Real shame, because I know how good Hickman can be when he's on point.

Originally posted by Galan007
Hickman's work on Fantastic Four, FF, and S.H.I.E.L.D. remains to be some of the best comic material I have ever read. No joke. It was phenomenal.

Unfortunately Secret Wars has been lackluster as a whole, and downright awful at times. Real shame, because I know how good Hickman can be when he's on point.

Did S.H.I.E.L.D. ever get finished? I think I read like half a dozen issues?

Originally posted by Cogito
Did S.H.I.E.L.D. ever get finished? I think I read like half a dozen issues? Nope. There were still 2 issues left to complete the second volume. Hickman left us on a real cliffhanger, too.

In an interview way back, Hickman said that he'd conclude the series after some of his other projects(ie. Secret Wars) wrapped up, but I doubt that'll ever happen. It's already been 3 years since the last issue was released. srsly


Originally posted by Mr Master
http://images.killermovies.com/forums/custom_avatars/avatar88754_20.gif

'bout time you switched your avatar. Dig it.

^^ Thanx buddy. I'll be doing that through out halloween eve/day. Characters of the holiday.

Originally posted by Galan007
3 Beyonders killed LT and the entire cosmic hierarchy. Thor and Hype rolled through dozens of them.

Only in carver's world does that balance out.
Agreed.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
The bearded Broforce > Beyonders, Thorfact.

Anyway, Mxy alone would beat pre rec Beyonder and should stalemate the Beyonders as a race, in a funny way. The whole 5D imp race would go through all known Beyonders, pre rec or not, like jarnbjorn and atomic fists through overrated metal.
You are seriously high.....just stop...
Pre-Retcon Beyonder > Mr.Mxyzptlk
Post-Retcon Beyonder <Mr.Mxyzptlk

Plot Induced Stupidity just like Pre-Retcon Beyonder/The Beyonders have its true weaknesses for Omnipotent beings...

The Beyonders get my vote killing LT is....just a major feat....f*** the PIS+CIS Hickman logic.

Originally posted by BeyonderGod
You are seriously high.....just stop...
Pre-Retcon Beyonder > Mr.Mxyzptlk
Post-Retcon Beyonder <Mr.Mxyzptlk

Nope

Originally posted by Zack M
Nope
More like yes.

No.

Yeah

Pre-Retcon Beyonder > Mr.Mxyzptlk

Beyonder was basically a God of a bigger multiverse which was bigger than Marvel entire omniverse.

Originally posted by BeyonderGod
Yeah

Pre-Retcon Beyonder > Mr.Mxyzptlk

Beyonder was basically a God of a bigger multiverse which was bigger than Marvel entire omniverse.

Being your own god doesn't really say much. In terms of feats, Mxy has him beat.

Originally posted by BeyonderGod
You are seriously high.....just stop...
Pre-Retcon Beyonder > Mr.Mxyzptlk You could argue they were equal, at most.

Not even Beyonder can win a feat-war against Mxy, though.

Originally posted by Galan007
You could argue they were equal, at most.

Not even Beyonder can win a feat-war against Mxy, though.
.........Again
Beyonder (Pre-Retcon)
http://i38.servimg.com/u/f38/19/00/38/35/c_data49.jpg
Beyonder (Retcon)
http://i18.servimg.com/u/f18/19/00/38/35/110.jpg

Originally posted by Zack M
Being your own god doesn't really say much. In terms of feats, Mxy has him beat.
God>Nigh-Omnipotence

Mr.Mxy aint got nothing beat.

Originally posted by BeyonderGod
.........Again
Beyonder (Pre-Retcon)
http://i38.servimg.com/u/f38/19/00/38/35/c_data49.jpg
Beyonder (Retcon)
http://i18.servimg.com/u/f18/19/00/38/35/110.jpg

So what's you're point?

Feat wise, Mxy and Batmite were destroying the Omniverse in DC every other week and bringing it back with no one the wiser.

Originally posted by SquallX
So what's you're point?

Feat wise, Mxy and Batmite were destroying the Omniverse in DC every other week and bringing it back with no one the wiser.
Beyonder had a "Multiverse" Bigger than a omniverse......
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11113/111130441/3818642-7962697593-33444.jpg

Jim Shooter describes Beyonder/Beyond realm.

So? Mxy destroyed an omniverse.

Are these descriptive bios supposed to elevate Beyonder above a character who actually destroyed the whole of DC comics(past, present, and future) on panel, recreated it all with the snap of his fingers, and made plans to do the same thing the following week?

Again: not even Beyonder can win a feat-war against Mxy.

Originally posted by Zack M
So? Mxy destroyed an omniverse.

I don't know if DC was using the term back then, but Mxy destroyed every time line in the DC verse, then brought it all back with a snap of his fingers. Only to tell Batmite same time next week.

That proves, this wasn't a one time thing, but a regular occurrence.

Originally posted by SquallX
I don't know if DC was using the term back then

Originally posted by Juntai


You beautiful bastard you, making me blush like that

This is for you
hXB53OyTsPM

Originally posted by Galan007

In the next comic, they look like Transformers with Down's Syndrome... Some of them looked like Fighter Jets, complete with landing gear and Gatling Guns, ffs:
http://i.imgur.com/BFbG8x0.jpg

srsly



Yeah, that made me wtf, too. They deserved to have trouble with Hyperion and Janithor.

Originally posted by SquallX
You beautiful bastard you, making me blush like that

This is for you
hXB53OyTsPM

Originally posted by Juntai


DC also has better-defined cosmological concepts, like...

Hypertime:
http://i.imgur.com/f0XT2sG.jpg

And

Metaverse:
http://i.imgur.com/LlxPHY5.jpg


Both of which basically describe an infinite amount of infinities.

I wish Tad Williams would dabble in comics a little more often.

Originally posted by Zack M

In terms of feats, Mxy has him beat.
Mxy destroyed the entirety of DC, which according to the writer of WF (Evan Dorkin) was "The Multiverse."

We only know, or rather assess that Mxy destroyed more via info after the fact.
Info that Dorking knew nothing about, info Dorking never considered when he wrote his spoof issue.
The point of WF was to make fun of DC's cosmology, it was never a serious story.

That aside, Galan proved to me how Mxy destroyed more than The Multiverse,
not due to Dorkin's intentions, which were clear on panel,
but due to DC's cosmological make-up which Dorkin was completely ignorant about.
By default, ... Mxy destroyed more.
No different than Sise-Neg destroying more than the universe by default,
even though that was not the writers' intentions. (writers used the universe to represent all)

That said, Beyonder created a Reality that was far bigger than the whole of Marvel.
The entirety of Marvel was "the infinite Multiverse" back in classic Beyonder's era.

So basically:

... the infinite Multiverse = a drop of water

... Beyonder's reality = an ocean

After figuring the math, the conclusion was the Beyonder was roughly a septillion times bigger than all of Marvel.

... and millionS of times more powerful. (no math needed, that was literally stated by Shooter)

-----------------------------------------------

When we look at Mxy's feat (outside the writer's intentions) in its totality,
we realize Mxy's feat is comparable to Beyonders'.

-----------------------------------------------

But that's a tough pill to swallow,
when we know Mxy stomped Spectre (backed by his boss) by cracking a planet over his head.

That kind of cartoonish simplicity is what shuns away most serious minded debaters from considering WF at all.
Then there's the "real world" visitation which really poops all over the story.

You realize Mxy is a toon right, bro?
Pretty much all of his material is an onslaught of nonsense. He breaks all the rules purposely.

Originally posted by Galan007


DC also has better-defined cosmological concepts, like...

Hypertime:
http://i.imgur.com/f0XT2sG.jpg

And

Metaverse:
http://i.imgur.com/LlxPHY5.jpg


Both of which basically describe an infinite amount of infinities.

Forgot about those.

Pre retcon beyonder was stated to be millions of times more poweruful than the marvel MU and more powerful than all the abstracts including Tribunal put together....he is far above a freaking 5d imp,tribunal held 2 megaverses in his palm,that's higher than whatever mxy has done,and if I am reading right,its erasing and recreating the DC multiverse,chaos war herc remade the marvel Multiverse even....and iirc he has command over the spatial dimensions 2.-6.,I don't put mxy above the tribunal,let alone the pre retcon beyonder....this guy was the toaa and personification of his realm which made the MU look like a drop of water in an ocean

Originally posted by Genii96
Pre retcon beyonder was stated to be millions of times more poweruful than the marvel MU and more powerful than all the abstracts including Tribunal put together....he is far above a freaking 5d imp,tribunal held 2 megaverses in his palm,that's higher than whatever mxy has done,and if I am reading right,its erasing and recreating the DC multiverse,chaos war herc remade the marvel Multiverse even....and iirc he has command over the spatial dimensions 2.-6.,I don't put mxy above the tribunal,let alone the pre retcon beyonder....this guy was the toaa and personification of his realm which made the MU look like a drop of water in an ocean

Statements, that's all you have to fall back on.

I can claim i can run 2 miles in 10 min, but until i do it, it doesn't carry any weight.

Fact is, Beyonder's best feats pales in comparison to Mxy. No if or buts.

Originally posted by SquallX

Fact is, Beyonder's best feats pales in comparison to Mxy. No if or buts.
I disagree.

I'm not sure if you know:

Beyonder created a Reality that when compared to the whole of Marvel, was like an ocean to a drop of water.
And Beyonder didn't just create this Reality ... he was this reality.

The whole of Marvel was the infinite Multiverse.

Sit back and ponder on that for a moment ... or google how many drops are in the ocean.

-------------------------------------

You want to think Mxy's feat is better, cool, but to state Beyonder's "pales in comparison" is outlandish.

Mxy destroyed and re-created all of the DCU, which is infinite. With a snap of his fingers.

Originally posted by Genii96
Pre retcon beyonder was stated to be millions of times more poweruful than the marvel MU and more powerful than all the abstracts including Tribunal put together....he is far above a freaking 5d imp,tribunal held 2 megaverses in his palm,that's higher than whatever mxy has done,and if I am reading right,its erasing and recreating the DC multiverse,chaos war herc remade the marvel Multiverse even....and iirc he has command over the spatial dimensions 2.-6.,I don't put mxy above the tribunal,let alone the pre retcon beyonder....this guy was the toaa and personification of his realm which made the MU look like a drop of water in an ocean

LT held two Megaverses (or two fictional Marvel companies) in his palm once Marvel became an Omniverse and LT even more powerful. Back then, when the so called pre-rect Beyonder was above LT, Marvel was a Multiverse and just a fragment compared to the Ominverse (with two Megaverses) that it is currently.

So, Multiverses have infinite Universes and Megaverses have all the Multiverses and everything beyond, iow also the Beyonders realm. LT once was below the Beyonder but later held the Marvel Megaverse (with beyonders realm, as a part of it's company) in his hand AND on top of this another Marvel Megaverse that copies another comic line. This feat alone shows that he became, with the help of TOAA more powerful then Beyonder ever was. Now 3 Ivory Kings defeated the Omniversal LT which is above the stuff pre rect Beyonder did.

Mxy on the other hand erased the totality of DC Multiverse and everything there is and recreated it with a snap during a time when it already was an Omniverse. This is so far above pre-rect Beyonder that I would give LT and the 3 Ivory Kings better odds against him.

Originally posted by Zack M

Mxy destroyed and re-created all of the DCU, which is infinite. With a snap of his fingers.
I know, bad ass.

Beyonder created a Reality that was septillions of times bigger than all of Marvel, which was infinite.

Beyonder also embodied said creation.

Mxy was about to destroy the 5th dimension, which is said to be bigger than the DCU, IIRC.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I disagree.

I'm not sure if you know:

Beyonder created a Reality that when compared to the whole of Marvel, was like an ocean to a drop of water.
And Beyonder didn't just create this Reality ... he was this reality.

The whole of Marvel was the infinite Multiverse.

Sit back and ponder on that for a moment ... or google how many drops are in the ocean.

-------------------------------------

You want to think Mxy's feat is better, cool, but to state Beyonder's "pales in comparison" is outlandish.

How long did it take Beyonder to create said realm? Mxy recreated everything after he destroyed it with a snap of his fingers.

Mxy destroyed everything in the DCU including concepts like hyper time, Galan posted the feats in the page prior to this.

It doesn't really matter how many drops of water there are in an ocean, when you struggle to bring Death back to life. Best ex. A body building is bigger than an arm wrestler, but 8/10, there actually weaker than said arm wrestler.

Feat wise, Mxy minus omnipotent beings have the best on panel feat.

To make things worse, Mxy knows that everything that's happening in the comics because he's able to break the 4th world.

Originally posted by SquallX

How long did it take Beyonder to create said realm?
Mxy recreated everything after he destroyed it with a snap of his fingers.
It didn't take him any time. Beyonder was the embodiment of the Beyond Realm.
He always was. He had no beginning. He was like God before Genesis.

At the end of SW though, Beyonder's essence imitated Marvel's creation event which included life.
Originally posted by SquallX

It doesn't really matter how many drops of water there are in an ocean, when you struggle to bring Death back to life. Best ex. A body building is bigger than an arm wrestler, but 8/10, there actually weaker than said arm wrestler.
Oh right, Beyonder with his self-imposed limitations to fit in.

Also, even under these limited conditions, Beyonder brought back Death fairly easily.
Originally posted by SquallX

Feat wise, Mxy minus omnipotent beings have the best on panel feat.
Cool. But I disagree.
Originally posted by SquallX

To make things worse, Mxy knows that everything that's happening in the comics because he's able to break the 4th world.
This means nothing. As there are a host of cats that break the 4th wall.
Also, Stan Lee bowed to the Beyonder, so there's that for comedic 4th wall shenanigans.

Originally posted by Genii96
if I am reading right

Found your problem

Originally posted by Mr Master
It didn't take him any time. Beyonder was the embodiment of the Beyond Realm.
He always was. He had no beginning. He was like God before Genesis.

At the end of SW though, Beyonder's essence imitated Marvel's creation event which included life.

Oh right, Beyonder with his self-imposed limitations to fit in.

Also, even under these limited conditions, Beyonder brought back Death fairly easily.

Cool. But I disagree.

This means nothing. As there are a host of cats that break the 4th wall.
Also, Stan Lee bowed to the Beyonder, so there's that for comedic 4th wall shenanigans.
Just made a universe? Not impressive then. Originally posted by Genii96
Pre retcon beyonder was stated to be millions of times more poweruful than the marvel MU and more powerful than all the abstracts including Tribunal put together....he is far above a freaking 5d imp,tribunal held 2 megaverses in his palm,that's higher than whatever mxy has done,and if I am reading right,its erasing and recreating the DC multiverse,chaos war herc remade the marvel Multiverse even....and iirc he has command over the spatial dimensions 2.-6.,I don't put mxy above the tribunal,let alone the pre retcon beyonder....this guy was the toaa and personification of his realm which made the MU look like a drop of water in an ocean
Stop crying.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I know, bad ass.

Beyonder created a Reality that was septillions of times bigger than all of Marvel, which was infinite.

Beyonder also embodied said creation.
Septillions? Not big enough.

Mxy destroyed DCU which is an omniverse as stated on panel.

Omniverse>>>>>a tiny universe.

BTW, here is what John Byrne said about Shooter's Beyonder.



http://m.byrnerobotics.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=29616

mmm

Originally posted by abhilegend

Just made a universe? Not impressive then.
facepalm Haven't had the urge to use that in a while. Damn yur good at doing what yu do.
Originally posted by abhilegend

Septillions? Not big enough.

Mxy destroyed DCU which is an omniverse as stated on panel.


Originally posted by abhilegend

BTW, here is what John Byrne said about Shooter's Beyonder.
... So Beyonder could've just as easily erased and re-created DC like Mxy did? Cool link.

... ok, ok, I'll agree with ya on that one.

Although I didn't need Byrne to tell me Beyonder's power was ridiculous like Mxy's. (less cartoonish imo though)

Originally posted by Mr Master
facepalm Haven't had the urge to use that in a while. Damn yur good at doing what yu do.


Yeah, I am good at you making look like a fool.

Byrne Mxy wasn't even that powerful. It was retconned as him never using his full power.

Beyonder is as powerful as Mxy if he doesn't uses his full power.

Thanks for playing.

Originally posted by abhilegend

Yeah, I am good at you making look like a fool.
Whatever makes you wet. Believe it. Like "faith."
Originally posted by abhilegend

Byrne Mxy wasn't even that powerful. It was retconned as him never using his full power.

Beyonder is as powerful as Mxy if he doesn't uses his full power.

forgetu ... Thanx for entertaining me.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Mxy destroyed DCU which is an omniverse as stated on panel. This also isn't factoring in Mxy destroying/recreating higher-dimensional realms, like the 4th World, which is infinitely larger than the prime DCU.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Whatever makes you wet. Believe it. Like "faith."

forgetu ... Thanx for entertaining me.
Concession accepted. Originally posted by Galan007
This also isn't factoring in Mxy destroying/recreating higher-dimensional realms, like the 4th World, which is infinitely larger than the prime DCU.
B-but Septillions bro. Septillions!!!!!!

Originally posted by Galan007

This also isn't factoring in Mxy destroying/recreating higher-dimensional realms,

like the 4th World, which is infinitely larger than the prime DCU.
I know you don't mean that this "4th world" is a separate target, aside from the supposed "omniverse?"

Anywho, in what issue was it again that this 4th world idea was introduced?

btw. I don't know if you realize, but I already stated that Beyonder's feat and Mxy's were comparable in pages prior
when forgetting about writer (Evan Dorkin's) intentions.
Originally posted by abhilegend

Mxy destroyed DCU which is an omniverse as stated on panel.

What issue was it where Mxy was stated to destroy an "omniverse?"

^^ @Galan, forget about the 4th World request, I already managed to get the info. Thanx.

Originally posted by Mr Master


What issue was it where Mxy was stated to destroy an "omniverse?"

Well, DC was stated to be an omniverse and he destroyed it.

Isn't that your own logic?

Originally posted by Mr Master
Anywho, in what issue was it again that this 4th world idea was introduced? New Gods v3 #10:
http://i.imgur.com/tdL92W0.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/3OvdqGL.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/PEb2oBj.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/EWDG1bQ.jpg

Btw, that issue was released 4 years prior to the release of World's Funnest. So when Mxy went on his rampage, it was already a well-established fact that he destroyed a realm/dimension that is infinitely larger than the entire 'mainstream' DCU.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I don't know if you realize, but I already stated that Beyonder's feat and Mxy's were comparable in pages prior I also said the very same thing in pages prior:Originally posted by Galan007
You could argue they were equal, at most.

Not even Beyonder can win a feat-war against Mxy, though.

Originally posted by Mr Master
when forgetting about writer (Evan Dorkin's) intentions. You keep bringing this up like it's some kind of negative.

Dorkin's 'intention' was for Mxy to destroy absolutely everything in DC:
http://i.imgur.com/S2gF9ST.png

And we know that Dorkin definitely had the 4th World in mind when he wrote the comic, because Mxy had already laid waste to Apokolips(which is IN the 4th World) earlier in the story:
http://i.imgur.com/jUvcVc8.jpg

Hell, aside from destroying his native 5th dimension(which is a realm of actuality above even the 4th World, and two realms of actuality above the prime DCU), it was outright stated that Mxy also destroyed ALL dimensions in DC(including those with fractions, lol):
http://i.imgur.com/bMEU6A8.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/NxlIYFc.jpg
...He evidently did all of that in the space of a single panel. WOW.


And at the end, Mxy recreated it all with the snap of his fingers. In fact, he had such a good time destroying all of DC, that he even made plans to do the same thing the following week:
http://i.imgur.com/OB7Sr9J.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/IirjJsU.jpg


Haters can hate all they want, but no feat in comics is beyond what Mxy did there.

Casually destroying and casually recreating everything is, by definition, the utmost feat in comics, I'd say, baring some metatextuality involved.

You literally can't go higher than that.

Originally posted by Galan007
New Gods v3 #10:
http://i.imgur.com/tdL92W0.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/3OvdqGL.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/PEb2oBj.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/EWDG1bQ.jpg

Btw, that issue was released 4 years prior to the release of World's Funnest. So when Mxy went on his rampage, it was already a well-established fact that he destroyed a realm/dimension that is infinitely larger than the entire 'mainstream' DCU..
I remember you showing me this, which is why I agreed the feats were comparable.
Originally posted by Galan007

I also said the very same thing in pages prior
Surprised you're not being trolled too considering this opinion. Oh wait, yur now "brother" Galan.
Originally posted by Galan007

You keep bringing this up like it's some kind of negative.

Dorkin's 'intention' was for Mxy to destroy absolutely everything in DC
Awesome, to Dorkin though, all that was "The Multiverse."

It's not a negative imo, just a fact.

This "fact" doesn't take away from the feat being greater than "multiversal"
because you already showed me how DC's cosmology calls for more.

But Dorkin didn't know any better. This has happened in Marvel likewise.
Originally posted by Galan007

Haters can hate all they want, but no feat in comics is beyond what Mxy did there.
Haters? You tell em Galan. I'm with ya.

No feat in comics is beyond what Beyonder did either imo.

Originally posted by Mr Master
No feat in comics is beyond what Beyonder did either imo.
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/EJnKudG03Mo/hqdefault.jpg
He mad Stan lee bow....so yeah....

Mxy jumped into Earth Prime and caused havok!

He made*

also cool.....Beyonder jumped in the microverse and ****ed shit up lol.

Originally posted by BeyonderGod
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/EJnKudG03Mo/hqdefault.jpg
He mad Stan lee bow....so yeah.... Cool. Mxy punched Eddie Berganza in the face, just for being a tool:
http://i.imgur.com/wjJPffEm.jpg http://i.imgur.com/wcfOO1Bm.jpg http://i.imgur.com/0aNWidVm.jpg


Hell, he even took a comic book script from Mike Carlin himself, just to see what happened later in the issue:
http://i.imgur.com/g7tq5ahm.jpg http://i.imgur.com/eMmL26lm.jpg



When it comes to silly 4th wall feats, you really don't want to compare Beyonder to Mxy.