Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

http://i522.photobucket.com/albums/w344/riv6672/image_zpswwpkbrjz.jpg

No prep. No BFR.

http://i522.photobucket.com/albums/w344/riv6672/image_zps2bjatpht.jpg

Good fight, but I'm going with Etrigan.

Thanks.
Wish others'd take a Super break and try something new.

Originally posted by riv6672
Wish others'd take a Super break and try something new.
Yup. We should have a rotating one month ban on Thor/Hulk/Superman topics. Give other threads a chance to breathe.

Etrigan. Ikaris aint got the damage soak to compete

The hell he doesn't. This would be an amazing fight. I'm calling it a straight up split. Either could take it on any given day.

Originally posted by Martian_mind
The hell he doesn't. This would be an amazing fight. I'm calling it a straight up split. Either could take it on any given day.

Really? I read the eternals mini recently..checked out a few old books. Ikaris always comes off to me as a solid low herald. Nothing to write home about

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Really? I read the eternals mini recently..checked out a few old books. Ikaris always comes off to me as a solid low herald. Nothing to write home about

I think his fight in which he was described too powerful for the All-New Invaders team (which included Namor) puts him above Low Herald, combined with all the feats he's accrued over the years I think he goes above that in my opinion.

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
I think his fight in which he was described too powerful for the All-New Invaders team (which included Namor) puts him above Low Herald, combined with all the feats he's accrued over the years I think he goes above that in my opinion.

All new invaders? How recent is that book? Did they fight?

Originally posted by Sin I AM
All new invaders? How recent is that book? Did they fight?

It's a recent book, 2014 was when it was around.

Here is the fight.

From the Ikaris Respect Thread.

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot


http://i.imgur.com/XeuYfHi.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/bZjyIII.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/wz0ipAa.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/pz9SB6K.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/pio1uHQ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/UKm95fC.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/mSJPwra.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/RQDIMZy.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/CTQ2qLY.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/0PE1d19.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/igu7OGs.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/UJihycv.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/12YE3yf.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/vP8PpD4.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/KYkqwmf.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/wniMNtu.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/CZQZgvX.jpg


From The All-New Invaders #3 and The All-New Invaders #5

Also worth mentioning in that fight that he was trying his best not to harm any of them so he wasn't at his best at all.

Scott knows what he's about. Ikaris is underrated.

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
It's a recent book, 2014 was when it was around.

Here is the fight.

From the Ikaris Respect Thread.



Also worth mentioning in that fight that he was trying his best not to harm any of them so he wasn't at his best at all.

Namor seemed to be holding his own tho

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Namor seemed to be holding his own tho

Like I was mentioning though don't forget Ikaris was trying his best not to hurt them plus Cap confirms his power level is beyond anything they can fight. You see Namor getting worked by an Ikaris that isn't really exerting all that he could.

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
Like I was mentioning though don't forget Ikaris was trying his best not to hurt them plus Cap confirms his power level is beyond anything they can fight. You see Namor getting worked by an Ikaris that isn't really exerting all that he could.

Yea i read the narrative. Cap did state he was above them. Jim was doing nothing at all. But Namor wasnt exactly getting stomped. He was holding his own as well ..i wouldnt say he was going all out but he doesnt pull punches either. Plus Ik was barely in his feet and namor was fine. I took it all in consideration. Not knocking him jus saying...

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Yea i read the narrative. Cap did state he was above them. Jim was doing nothing at all. But Namor wasnt exactly getting stomped. He was holding his own as well ..i wouldnt say he was going all out but he doesnt pull punches either. Plus Ik was barely in his feet and namor was fine. I took it all in consideration. Not knocking him jus saying...

Oh sure I get you. Just one of them things.

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
Oh sure I get you. Just one of them things.



Valid points as usual. Where would u place him?

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Valid points as usual. Where would u place him?

This is something I myself always think about when it gets brought up. He is the Prime Eternal. Which means he should have the power of Zuras. And back in the day when he was Prime Eternal he managed to damage Ghaur,

And in this context Ghaur was at the time transforming into a Celestial. He wasn't fully transformed but Ikaris was able to damage him with blasts and was able to tear off his shell so to speak. Note I'm obviously not saying Ikaris is Celestial tier or anywhere near that but it makes you think.

My ranking will sound weird (I'll try to explain it the best I can). I think you could call him a Mid Herald, High Herald or Trans Tier. I'll explain each choice.

Mid Herald - This is like the safe spot to place him based on all the feats he has accrued. I would say that this is playing to far to safe. But if for example there was a person who hadn't seen much of Ikaris you might put him here. Or completely disregard that and in general that's what someone just believes no matter how much they read or not.

High Herald - This is the camp that I place myself in. I tend to think given everything he has done. And more recently the All-New Invaders fight kind of helps this. He supposedly has the power of Zuras too don't forget.

Trans Tier - This is only if you took the power of Zuras thing to be completely literal then of course you might be able to place him here. But I think there is not much of an argument to put him in Trans Tier at all. If you take the damaging Part Celestial Ghaur as literal etc*

*Note by putting that tier there it is just a hypothetical idea that you could use for a tier. Not what I necessarily believe. As I stated I tend to think High Herald.

But even then I am still stuck. Ikaris is quite a difficult one to rank. I tied my bets though.

Pre-Flashpoint, Etrigan wins. DCnU, he loses.

Gotta side with My Boy Ettie!

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
This is something I myself always think about when it gets brought up. He is the Prime Eternal. Which means he should have the power of Zuras. And back in the day when he was Prime Eternal he managed to damage Ghaur,

And in this context Ghaur was at the time transforming into a Celestial. He wasn't fully transformed but Ikaris was able to damage him with blasts and was able to tear off his shell so to speak. Note I'm obviously not saying Ikaris is Celestial tier or anywhere near that but it makes you think.

My ranking will sound weird (I'll try to explain it the best I can). I think you could call him a Mid Herald, High Herald or Trans Tier. I'll explain each choice.

Mid Herald - This is like the safe spot to place him based on all the feats he has accrued. I would say that this is playing to far to safe. But if for example there was a person who hadn't seen much of Ikaris you might put him here. Or completely disregard that and in general that's what someone just believes no matter how much they read or not.

High Herald - This is the camp that I place myself in. I tend to think given everything he has done. And more recently the All-New Invaders fight kind of helps this. He supposedly has the power of Zuras too don't forget.

Trans Tier - This is only if you took the power of Zuras thing to be completely literal then of course you might be able to place him here. But I think there is not much of an argument to put him in Trans Tier at all. If you take the damaging Part Celestial Ghaur as literal etc*

*Note by putting that tier there it is just a hypothetical idea that you could use for a tier. Not what I necessarily believe. As I stated I tend to think High Herald.

But even then I am still stuck. Ikaris is quite a difficult one to rank. I tied my bets though.

Great breakdown. I love your posts. Honestly the only eternal i cared about was sersi and that had more to Do with her relationship to dane than anything else. But i see where you're going with Ikaris and he's growing on me. I didnt know the "celestial" feat. Is it canon? Iirc the eternals have had what like 3 or 4 retcons or soft reboots. Not sure if they're still kirbys original powerhouses. Anyway I'll have to read more on him. I honestly still think etrigan has him in strength and durability edge. But it's closer than i previously thought

Good fight

Going Etrigan tho

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Great breakdown. I love your posts. Honestly the only eternal i cared about was sersi and that had more to Do with her relationship to dane than anything else. But i see where you're going with Ikaris and he's growing on me. I didnt know the "celestial" feat. Is it canon? Iirc the eternals have had what like 3 or 4 retcons or soft reboots. Not sure if they're still kirbys original powerhouses. Anyway I'll have to read more on him. I honestly still think etrigan has him in strength and durability edge. But it's closer than i previously thought

It is canon as far as I know. It hasn't been retconned or anything, it's worth noting that the retcon was to protect Celestials at all costs. So even if the Ghaur incident was decades ago (which it was). It wouldn't be retconned because he wasn't officially a Celestial you know, dare I say he doesn't have the Passport with a Celestial face on it on the Celestial driving license.

Anyways here are the things I was talking about.

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot

Prime Eternal Ikaris rips apart part of the shell of the Celestial empowered Ghaur.

http://i.imgur.com/dU4E9bG.jpg



Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot

Prime Eternal Ikaris is able to hurt Ghaur who has absorbed a form of Celestial energy that gave him a form of power perhaps equal or less to an average Celestial. Although I would guess it probably isn't the full power of a Celestial.

But still a very good feat.

http://i.imgur.com/oJczD4C.jpg



Just to reiterate again though it's most likely Ghaur at this point was nowhere near a Celestial. But I reckon he was pretty powerful at this point. It depends on how much stock you want to put in the scans.

I went through all the retcons here.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Great breakdown. I love your posts. Honestly the only eternal i cared about was sersi and that had more to Do with her relationship to dane than anything else. But i see where you're going with Ikaris and he's growing on me. I didnt know the "celestial" feat. Is it canon? Iirc the eternals have had what like 3 or 4 retcons or soft reboots. Not sure if they're still kirbys original powerhouses. Anyway I'll have to read more on him. I honestly still think etrigan has him in strength and durability edge. But it's closer than i previously thought

About the retcon I tried to address it here.

I better stop posting all this stuff here now, don't wannna annoy anyone else here with my bloated walls of text.

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
X. Retcons/Changes

The Prime Eternal

The Eternals have been subject to some retcons and changes in their past. In particular the role of the being who becomes

the Prime Eternal (ruler of the Earthbound Eternals) has frequently changed suit. I will now begin to explain the long

story that is the tale of the Prime Eternals.


As we know being the so called current ruler of the Eternals (back in the 1970's) was Zuras. His rule was unchallenged.

During the events of Thor #300, when the Fourth Host of the Celestials was at the peak of making a judgement, Zuras

created a Uni-Mind with the rest of his Eternals. Minus ones such as Ikaris and Sersi. Zuras was killed in the Uni-Mind

along with many of his kin.

http://i.imgur.com/Vtl1o3N.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Cqk8PDh.jpg

Since Zuras has been killed. There currently is no Prime Eternal to lead these great beings onwards. The honour to lead

the Eternals next falls on Thena, daughter of Zuras.

http://i.imgur.com/l6k7txe.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/s57IktB.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/7x3ML0h.jpg

After Thena had been in rule for a while, there were suspicions of foul play by the Prime Eternal herself. As she still

harboured love for the Deviant Kro. In the end Ikaris challenged Thena for the right to be Prime Eternal. With the winner

to be decided in a battle.

http://i.imgur.com/Xk88RUd.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/eSD9rX2.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/z6UTP28.jpg

Ikaris won the battle, he was now officially the Prime Eternal. And with it came abilities such as this. Being able to

form the ritual of the Uni-Mind for example.

http://i.imgur.com/KKIg7Jh.jpg

For a long while in the comics, Ikaris has a 100% sure position, he is the Prime Eternal. Volume 3 is where it

begins to get very weird. As volume 3 is where the huge Retcon for the Eternals come into play, which I will now discuss.

(don't worry the Prime Eternal discussion will still go on, note I will be splitting it into a separate section as to not

clutter).

The Retcon

For many a decade we knew this as the official origin of the Eternals.

http://i.imgur.com/lT2sHp6.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/c7zoUIL.jpg

Well this was all to change.

Instead of being mere thousands of years old they were retconned into being millions of years old!

http://i.imgur.com/cfBYGSG.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/wfO4l27.jpg

This is an extreme jump in years to be retconned. You may wonder how it all happened. It all starts with the "child"

Eternal known as Sprite.

In Volume 3 of Eternals, a huge amount of things have changed. Every single Eternal bar Ikaris and Thena(who both could

resist the power to resist what I shall soon explain).

As soon as Volume 3 kicks in most of the Eternals all complteltey forget the past lives (compared to nothing like this

last volume). Here are some images of the people who have forgotten themselves.


Druig

http://i.imgur.com/FP3QXfC.jpg

Makkari

http://i.imgur.com/Xx1Dzt6.jpg

Sersi

http://i.imgur.com/A6Gg3TX.jpg

And most shockingly of all... Zuras (note Ajak is the person next to him)

http://i.imgur.com/uFyntuV.jpg

The Eternal who was supposedly murdered by the Celestials when they formed the Uni-mind has returned somehow. Here is how

it happened.

Here is Sprite explaining it to Makkari. Or rather the still unawakened version of him.

http://i.imgur.com/B5npdAH.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/GxTenRW.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/pw6rEEQ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/KQboSt6.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/5PBaBYh.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/U95Qiuc.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/IzQTw4G.jpg

So Sprite has been casting illusions and warping reality for millions of years. Or rather this is the retcon that

was presented and this is how it was explained. Sprite took Zuras and Ajak and gave them the illusion that they had been

speaking to a Celestial. Sprite organised a Uni-Mind powered by Celestials and used that to warp it into what we face

today.

And there are two other retcons around the Eternals. another thing organised by Sprite.

I will be calling this the Celestial Retcon.

Eternals since thanks to Sprites meddling (or the retcon) are now honour bound to protect the Celestial race. If an

Eternal would attempt to attack a Celestial they would be risking certain death.

http://i.imgur.com/59F1Z09.jpg

And here is a brief set of scans from The Eternals v3 that explains this perfectly. With many of the Eternals offering

explanations. Thena telling Iron Man she can't approach the Celestial. Ikaris mind controlling Hank Pym into not

attacking the Celestial because of this honour bound oath.

http://i.imgur.com/qwmZyQG.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/pZig4Bb.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/PwFB2Cm.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/YpyBX9a.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/TlGM1Qh.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/q7cx0B5.jpg


Here is the next set of retconns.


Eternals still can't die so to speak. But if they do suffer sufficient enough injury that they do die (i.e the famed

molecular dispersal) they are reassembled by the machine. They can basically be genetically created and rewritten.

http://i.imgur.com/R9TS1cF.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/2DfWpCS.jpg

As more perfectly described here by Phastos, "a device that perfectly replicates Eternals, then somehow integrates their

conciousness fully intact into their new husk".

http://i.imgur.com/D8zeFFM.jpg

Phastos again states here that without that machine if they die they will be gone for good.

http://i.imgur.com/m8nIM41.jpg


And finally this the quite sad scene when Zuras finds out. As much as Sprite should have paid for his heinous actions. I

can't help but feel it shouldn't have been this way. Sprite also explains what he did a bit more here too.

http://i.imgur.com/oQ5bfgb.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/UkMrus3.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/H35hKUb.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/yhyrG2e.jpg

Quite sad really. But that is the retcon in it's whole.

Now, back to the Prime Eternal discussion

Back to the Prime Eternal

So as we know already that Ikaris is the Prime Eternal. Then with the advent of Zuras returning back to life. We suddenly

see that Zuras has somehow taken Ikaris's position.

http://i.imgur.com/YyJhbGR.jpg

(this scan is from the Eternals v4 annual)

Without any word mentioned or uttered. This annoyed me quite a bit. Because I thought that Ikaris had done his due by the

Eternals. He had shepherded them through hard times. And that Zuras didn't deserve the right to take up the position of

Prime Eternal. But I then came to these scans as I neared the end of the v4 run of Eternals.

The remaining Eternals are discussing whether Ikaris should remain as the Prime Eternal. When all of a sudden Zuras (the

supposed Prime Eternal again) arrives with the other Eternals. And Ikaris begins the ritual of the Uni-Mind with the

Dreaming Celestial and Zuras openly joins it. Confirming the fact that Ikaris remains the Prime Eternal!

http://i.imgur.com/xwtqCIq.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/7Hpjfb4.jpg

And you see even now I am confused. Zuras was made the Prime Eternal by a writer. Ikaris then performs the ritual of the

Uni-Mind which is more proof than anything. Specifically as it was in front of Zuras. I tend to believe that Ikaris

remained the Prime Eternal but I would welcome peoples opinions on the matter. I have gave most of my opinion here.

This is the end of my respect thread and I would very much like to thank everyone who reads this.


Formatting is a bit messed up but it isn't hard to read.

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
I better stop posting all this stuff here now, don't wannna annoy anyone else here with my bloated walls of text. Too late. sneer

Originally posted by Badabing
Too late. sneer




Time for me to call upon an old creation...

http://i.imgur.com/0hJ5Su6.jpg

Thanks a LOT for all the input, Scot.
You made my day.

Originally posted by riv6672
Thanks a LOT for all the input, Scot.
You made my day.

No problem Riv, if you have any more questions don't worry to ask.

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
Time for me to call upon an old creation...

http://i.imgur.com/0hJ5Su6.jpg More Scottish lies! sneer

Does Ikaris still have complete control of his body at the atomic level, or however they used to describe it?

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
No problem Riv, if you have any more questions don't worry to ask.
Thanks, i actually do a have a question; i'll shoot you a PM.

Ikaris is the second strongest earthbound eternal after forgotten one, overall Zuras is the most powerful overall than Sersi, forgotten one, varrko Ikaris father, and than Ikaris

Truth be told Hyperion and Ikaris are one in the same to a degree, both are eternals, one exist in one universe the other doesn't that makes sense

Say what?
You know, i dont want to know.