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Good Doom:

http://godhatesgeeks.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/YnVPI5J.png

vs.

COIE Anti-Monitor:

http://static2.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11112/111128252/4221345-7990375451-34851.jpg

Who win this fight?

Doom.

"God" Doom was the most overrated PoS ever.

Full Power CoIE AM destroys him.

i can almost agree with that completely.

The problem with Dr. Doom's godhood was that both the Phoenix Force and Infinity Gems could both briefly hold their own against him. So it's very different from the classic portrayals of godhood in Marvel when people just snapped each other out of existence.

Doom, easily. Supergirl.

Doom easily

Originally posted by quanchi112
Doom, easily. Supergirl.


Originally posted by Genii96
Doom easily Great posts by two great posters.

yep guess that ends the discussion.

The OP leads me to believe that this is COIE Anti-Monitor at the Dawn of Time...

God Doom gets annihilated by this version of the Anti-Monitor...

At his peak, COIE AM was low-megaversal level. That is to say, he had the power of nearly 2 infinite multiverses. Flip side, it took everything God Doom had to stalemate an Infinity Gauntlet, which are exclusively universal in this day and age.

AM wins, imo.

Originally posted by Galan007
Flip side, it took everything God Doom had to stalemate an Infinity Gauntlet, which are exclusively universal in this day and age.

Which doesn't make any sense. All, or almost all universes, have their own version of the IG. In all the infinite universes NOT one person thought of assembling the IG and stopping the Beyonders rampage?

ONE IG gave Doom with the Beyonders power the fight of his life. Two or three would have ended this whole nonsense.

I agree. I mean, the power of the friggin Starbrand can kill a Beyonder, after all, so I would assume the IG in its native universe --or even a UN for that matter-- could have wiped the floor with the entire race. Perhaps said items weren't included on purpose, as it wouldn't have made for a very interesting story if an IG or UN wielder showed up and massacred the entire race with a gesture/click, lol...

On that note, the Beyonders should thank their graces that the Council of Reeds wasn't around at the time, or their machinations would have never even got past the development phase.

Originally posted by Galan007
At his peak, COIE AM was low-megaversal level. That is to say, he had the power of nearly 2 infinite multiverses. Flip side, it took everything God Doom had to stalemate an Infinity Gauntlet, which are exclusively universal in this day and age.

AM wins, imo.

Hi, Galan. I think that this match be interesting, because in Ultimates vol. 2 #5 it is said omniverse:

http://imgur.com/ngLoUGJ

"The omniverse ended, and began again".


Then, Doom is omniversal?

Originally posted by backup
Hi, Galan. I think that this match be interesting, because in Ultimates vol. 2 #5 it is said omniverse:

http://imgur.com/ngLoUGJ

"The omniverse ended, and began again".


Then, Doom is omniversal?

That seems more like authors opinion (or one likes to use different terms to describe the same thing.

Hickman always referenced an Multiverse.

The omniverse or multiverse(whichever terminology you choose to go with) was destroyed as a result of the incursion fiasco, but Doom never had the full power of the Beyonder race. He only had as much power as Owen --who was the conduit/medium/reservoir for said power-- allowed him to access at any given time... Which was only enough to defeat a universal IG after a prolonged battle.

^^ ... calling it a "universal" IG is an unintentional mislead imo.
Originally posted by Galan007

Flip side, it took everything God Doom had to stalemate an Infinity Gauntlet,

which are exclusively universal in this day and age.

The IG only being able to operate within a certain amount of space-time is relative good friend.

Because within that space-time it is "all-powerful" ...
Originally posted by zopzop

Which doesn't make any sense. All, or almost all universes, have their own version of the IG.
In all the infinite universes NOT one person thought of assembling the IG and stopping the Beyonders rampage?

ONE IG gave Doom with the Beyonders power the fight of his life. Two or three would have ended this whole nonsense.
It doesn't work that way though old pal.

An IG makes the wielder "God" of a particular chunk of the multiverse,
another IG makes the wielder "God" of another separate specific chunk of the multiverse,
and on, and on with the countless IGs in their independent universes.

Two IGs or more wouldn't work in unison sharing the same space.

Doom stalemated the most powerful being in the omniverse.

It sounds ridiculous, but all IGs are the most powerful items in the omniverse.

So long as they are within their respective realities, no one can phuk with them, save for another "God" (ergo Doom)

"All-powerful" is clearly hyperbole, given that Doom beat it. It is still a universal item, however, so no, it is not a misleading title at all--it's a factual one.

Doom was supposed to be, like God or whatever though.

Yet, if he did win, then Doom was uber as hell.

Imo, the fact that that IG gave God Doom a fight speaks volumes about it's depth of power.

Doom was certainly far beyond a universal power and yet the IG wasn't whisked away.

Yet, Cap broke an IG just with trying to stop an incursion. All-powerful? Probably not.

There's also the fact that Doom didn't even have the complete power of the Beyonders, and still trumped the IG.

The IG's not all-powerful. It's just really powerful.

Yep, I know that the multiverse it was mentioned, but recently also the omniverse. I'm really confused.

And yeah... the IG is purely universal as explained in New Avengers vol. 3 #3:

http://i.imgur.com/tAWeoYy.png

^^ .. Yes my friend, we all know in Hickman's world the IG's are restricted to their native universe.

Although, you should try telling Jim Starlin that,
cause the IG (actually a fragment of its power to be exact) he's portraying right now
travels across all of Time. (as in, Alternate/Diverged universes)

---------------------------------------

On the Cap issue:

Yep, literally stated to have been Cap's fault. (stipulation/plot)

Those Gems resurfaced, and that same IG was reassembled, then it stalemated God for a while before losing.

So, I guess it was but a momentary reprieve.

Originally posted by Galan007

There's also the fact that Doom didn't even have the complete power of the Beyonders, and still trumped the IG.

How much power was that exactly?

The power of 3 Beyonders > the prime Multiverse (all Marvel to Hickman) rolled into one.

Originally posted by backup
Yep, I know that the multiverse it was mentioned, but recently also the omniverse. I'm really confused.

And yeah... the IG is purely universal as explained in New Avengers vol. 3 #3:

http://i.imgur.com/tAWeoYy.png I believe this is a case of different terminology being used to describe the same thing: all of Marvel.

Hickman told us multiple times during the story itself that all of Marvel=the multiverse. Ewing is now using the word "omniverse" to describe the same thing, imo.

Originally posted by Mr Master
How much power was that exactly?

The power of 3 Beyonders > the prime Multiverse (all Marvel to Hickman) rolled into one. It is unknown how much of the Beyonders' power Doom was channeling at any given time. We do know that he spent most of his power/effort on holding Battleworld together, though.

Yup, I'm well-aware of Pym's recollection that 3 Beyonders slew the entire hierarchy(inc. LT.) Later in the story, however, Beyonders were outright killed by FAR lesser means... The Starbrand, for example, obliterated a Beyonder, yet was only stated to have enough power to "protect or destroy A WORLD.":
http://i.imgur.com/mrwBqDn.jpg

IOW, if you can destroy a planet, you can theoretically destroy a Beyonder.

Hell, the entire race of Beyonders were destroyed by a bomb that 'only' packed the power of "hundreds of thousands" of universes. Yes, that is a very uber detonation by normal standards, no doubt, but when compared to the power of LT --"the multiverse(ie. infinite universes) taken form"-- that Pym recalled 3 of them battling beforehand, a few hundred thousand universes is...well...literally nothing.


Makes you wonder how trustworthy Pym's recollection really was. I mean, he even said that he couldn't comprehend the full scale/scope of what was going on. /shrug

Originally posted by Mr Master


Yep, literally stated to have been Cap's fault. (stipulation/plot)

Those Gems resurfaced, and that same IG was reassembled, then it stalemated God for a while before losing.

So, I guess it was but a momentary reprieve.

How was it his fault?

Originally posted by Galan007
I believe this is a case of different terminology being used to describe the same thing: all of Marvel.

Hickman told us multiple times during the story itself that all of Marvel=the multiverse. Ewing is now using the word "omniverse" to describe the same thing, imo.

It is unknown how much of the Beyonders' power Doom was channeling at any given time. We do know that he spent most of his power/effort on holding Battleworld together, though.

Yup, I'm well-aware of Pym's recollection that 3 Beyonders slew the entire hierarchy(inc. LT.) Later in the story, however, Beyonders were outright killed by FAR lesser means... The Starbrand, for example, obliterated a Beyonder, yet was only stated to have enough power to "protect or destroy A WORLD.":
http://i.imgur.com/mrwBqDn.jpg

IOW, if you can destroy a planet, you can theoretically destroy a Beyonder.

Hell, the entire race of Beyonders were destroyed by a bomb that 'only' packed the power of "hundreds of thousands" of universes. Yes, that is a very uber detonation by normal standards, no doubt, but when compared to the power of LT --"the multiverse(ie. infinite universes) taken form"-- that Pym recalled 3 of them battling beforehand, a few hundred thousand universes is...well...literally nothing.


Makes you wonder how trustworthy Pym's recollection really was. I mean, he even said that he couldn't comprehend the full scale/scope of what was going on. /shrug Pym said the same battle was happening in every reality. Which implies that 3 Beyonders battled LT in every reality. LT split himself off and 3 Beyonders for every universe fought those fragments.

And apparently it was a heck of a battle too.

Or maybe it was just 3. But that doesn't make any sense with any of the other Beyonderssssssssss feats. Even in that story.

Plus the split battle is backed up by one Beyonder fighting the infinite Celestials in every universe iirc.

The IG's authority only applies in its universe,do not confuse that with its raw power being only universal

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yet, Cap broke an IG just with trying to stop an incursion. All-powerful? Probably not.
IG's function in their native universe only,THAT is why it broke,during an incursion 2 different universes meet,

Originally posted by Galan007

Yup, I'm well-aware of Pym's recollection that 3 Beyonders slew the entire hierarchy(inc. LT.)
Later in the story, however, Beyonders were outright killed by FAR lesser means...

The Starbrand, for example, obliterated a Beyonder,
yet was only stated to have enough power to "protect or destroy A WORLD.":
http://i.imgur.com/mrwBqDn.jpg

IOW, if you can destroy a planet, you can theoretically destroy a Beyonder.
I see. Remember though old friend,
I believe it was established through innuendoes and logic that the forms these Beyonders take on are vulnerable.

That same Beyonder that was destroyed by a so called world-scale power ...

... had the power to "destroy and/or create STARS" ...

http://s5d2.turboimagehost.com/t/24117179_B8.jpg
So go figure ... btw. The Beyonder specifically highlighted "stars" cause Hyperion stated he was a "sun."
The Beyonder could've been capable of much more for all we know
but it kept the info within the context of dialogue between itself and Hyperion it seems.
Originally posted by Galan007

Hell, the entire race of Beyonders were destroyed by a bomb that 'only' packed the power of "hundreds of thousands" of universes.
Yes, that is a very uber detonation by normal standards, no doubt,
but when compared to the power of LT --"the multiverse(ie. infinite universes) taken form"-- that Pym recalled 3 of them battling beforehand,
a few hundred thousand universes is...well...literally nothing.
True. But this follows my pint imo.

Remember Owen needed to "draw them out" of the Beyond Realm before attacking.

Ouside the Beyond Realm, Beyonders are forced to take on physical manifestations. Interesting.

http://s3d1.turboimg.net/t/24403854_1.jpg

When they spoke from withIN the Beyond Realm, Hickman portrays them as God imo. The lettering and all.

I wonder.

I believe that's the case. Owen needing to draw them out is the smoking gun imo.

Just to throw in a thought. The question to Tom Breevort has always been taken as being a reference to Hyperion and Thor battling hundreds of Beyonders, what if it's the other way around? That the kryptonite reference is actually meant as a way to describe what the Beyonders did to the Cosmic Hierarchy?

That's my point. Stop stealing it.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I see. Remember though old friend,
I believe it was established through innuendoes and logic that the forms these Beyonders take on are vulnerable.

That same Beyonder that was destroyed by a so called world-scale power ...

... had the power to "destroy and/or create STARS" ...

http://s5d2.turboimagehost.com/t/24117179_B8.jpg
So go figure ... btw. The Beyonder specifically highlighted "stars" cause Hyperion stated he was a "sun."
The Beyonder could've been capable of much more for all we know
but it kept the info within the context of dialogue between itself and Hyperion it seems. The Beyonders who battled LT were the exact same Beyonders who battled the Multiversal Avengers in NA #32--the same ones who were destroyed by things like the Starbrand. The final pages of NA #31 shows us as much:
http://s6d8.turboimg.net/t/26340399_New_Avengers_2013-_031-022.jpg http://s6d8.turboimg.net/t/26340400_New_Avengers_2013-_031-023.jpg

The Beyonders may have been illustrated differently in subsequent issues... But they were the SAME Beyonders nonetheless.

Originally posted by Mr Master
True. But this follows my pint imo.

Remember Owen needed to "draw them out" of the Beyond Realm before attacking.

Ouside the Beyond Realm, Beyonders are forced to take on physical manifestations. Interesting.

http://s3d1.turboimg.net/t/24403854_1.jpg

When they spoke from withIN the Beyond Realm, Hickman portrays them as God imo. The lettering and all.

I wonder.

I believe that's the case. Owen needing to draw them out is the smoking gun imo. You may be of the opinion that they are God within the Beyond Realm or w/e, but I'm talking about their tangible feats outside of the Beyond Realm--the only ones we can quantify.

Based on the feats they displayed that were not recalled second-handedly by Pym, the Beyonders are decisively less powerful than we were led to believe, imo. One of the Beyonders who played a part in killing LT, for example, was destroyed by a planetary detonation for crying out loud. The entire race of Beyonders were killed by a detonation that wiped out a few hundred thousand universes, etc.

And tbh, I believe Doom/Owen had to 'draw out' the Beyonders so they had something to target. Had they just blindly sent the Bomb through the portal to Beyond Realm, they might not have struck anything but dead-space(the Beyond Realm is extremely vast, after all.) By drawing them out, they could physically lock onto their opponents. /shrug

Originally posted by One Big Mob
Plus the split battle is backed up by one Beyonder fighting the infinite Celestials in every universe iirc.


http://i.imgur.com/YXaiGJf.jpg


And as we know, there were an infinite amount of Celestials:
http://i.imgur.com/3WLJi2p.jpg

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
That's my point. Stop stealing it.

Originally posted by One Big Mob

Plus the split battle is backed up by one Beyonder fighting the infinite Celestials in every universe iirc.
The split battle was specifically described as one Beyonder for each universe full of Celestials,
but this detail was not attributed to the LT encounter that I remember.

iirc, the Multiverse took form in the shape of the LT and got stomped.

It makes sense the battle took place everywhere simultaneously since the LT embodied everything at that point.

the new handbook re-retcons the original Beyonder's feats. It says that he easily defeated the Celestials in SW 2 and specifically references LT and the others unable to stop him while killing the abstract death. While also referencing his new child unit origins, and the Beyonders stomping the entire Marvel hierarchy.

Apart from that we have Beyonders being the creators of the multiverse; God doom usurping Eternity, Shaper's power (a cube being) being able to recreate the universe (and Galactus) from scratch easily. All this leads me to believe that they were meant to be above abstracts.

I really can't wrap my head around the low showings, though. They don't make any sense whatsoever to me.

^^

Originally posted by operator616
Apart from that we have Beyonders being the creators of the multiverse. Their power also played a huge part in rebuilding the multiverse in the wake of Doom's defeat.

Originally posted by operator616
I really can't wrap my head around the low showings, though. They don't make any sense whatsoever to me. Nor can I. Unfortunately, their crappy showings still exist, and they simply cannot be overlooked/ignored.

They have extremely high-highs, but also ridiculously low-lows. There's literally no grey/neutral area with them. srsly

Comics will always be inconsistent. Best not to sweat it. Only constant is Thanos is the greatest everything else fluctuates.

Does Doom Have prep?

Originally posted by operator616
the new handbook re-retcons the original Beyonder's feats. It says that he easily defeated the Celestials in SW 2 and specifically references LT and the others unable to stop him while killing the abstract death. While also referencing his new child unit origins, and the Beyonders stomping the entire Marvel hierarchy.

Apart from that we have Beyonders being the creators of the multiverse; God doom usurping Eternity, Shaper's power (a cube being) being able to recreate the universe (and Galactus) from scratch easily. All this leads me to believe that they were meant to be above abstracts.

I really can't wrap my head around the low showings, though. They don't make any sense whatsoever to me.

Who do you think wins?

AM

Why would you necro this awful thread

God Doom.

Originally posted by TheHulkster
God Doom.

... get s stomped.

I've seen most people replying to this thread, placing the burden of proof on Doom, but who did the Anti Monitor face and defeat, that makes him exempt from the same scrutiny?

Originally posted by Stoic
I've seen most people replying to this thread, placing the burden of proof on Doom, but who did the Anti Monitor face and defeat, that makes him exempt from the same scrutiny?

Deadman, Superman, Psycho Pirate, Earth, the Monitor, Guardian's of the Universe, all the Lanterns, the Universe, all the universes.

Originally posted by Quick Freeze
Deadman, Superman, Psycho Pirate, Earth, the Monitor, Guardian's of the Universe, all the Lanterns, the Universe, all the universes.

Everything he does is done with prep/tech or after absorbing the anti-matter universe. He himself nearly gets stomped by Supergirl as well as his own Stormers. And since he is argued by so many to be the same character, he is nearly stomped by Darkseid.

Wasn't it the Flash that ultimately stopped him?

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/38/dc/d5/38dcd51a2b19788e3b363bd0ac0fe4f1.jpg

Doom wins, and it probably wouldn't even be close. Reality manipulation on this scale trumps pure power by a landslide.

Originally posted by Stoic
Doom wins, and it probably wouldn't even be close. Reality manipulation on this scale trumps pure power by a landslide.

Laughable.

Doom was getting competed by a mere IG.

A-M stomps, and easily.

Originally posted by panthergod
Laughable.

Doom was getting competed by a mere IG.

A-M stomps, and easily.

You're laughable shut up. The Flash defeated the Anti Monitor, and he is well beneath an Infinity Gauntlet.

Originally posted by TheHulkster
Everything he does is done with prep/tech or after absorbing the anti-matter universe. He himself nearly gets stomped by Supergirl as well as his own Stormers. And since he is argued by so many to be the same character, he is nearly stomped by Darkseid.

...and everything Doom does is via Prep and/or gaining the IG. Sp\o lets discount his IG feats, yes?

Otherwise, he gets whipped by the Thing.

hypocrite.

Originally posted by Stoic
You're laughable shut up. The Flash defeated the Anti Monitor, and he is well beneath an Infinity Gauntlet.

Kinda. AM wasn't at full power and flash only managed to destroy his outershell.

Originally posted by BrolyBlack
Why would you necro this awful thread

because now I get to see Golgo schooling Stoic

Originally posted by panthergod
...and everything Doom does is via Prep and/or gaining the IG. Sp\o lets discount his IG feats, yes?

Otherwise, he gets whipped by the Thing.

hypocrite.

The OP specifies "God Doom". Why are you discussing anything else?

Originally posted by TheHulkster
The OP specifies "God Doom". Why are you discussing anything else?

I know right. I guess that the Flash would defeat God Doom as well.

Originally posted by Senor Cage
Kinda. AM wasn't at full power and flash only managed to destroy his outershell.

Yeah, so imagine what God Doom would manage to do to him with the power to warp all reality.

Originally posted by MrMind
because now I get to see Golgo schooling Stoic

I have yet to learn anything outside of someone unable to see that any other answer outside of Doom wins, is the wrong answer. But by all means, continue attending the Bobo School.

AM at his peak had much more power.